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Mohammad Abbas is yet to perform against top opposition!

Think he has done well in South Africa but not taken the tons of wickets that we expected- the shoulder injury is an issue.
 
He has been found out. New Zealand learned how to not give him wickets, while South Africa have not only negated him but they have also taken him to the cleaners.

He can hide behind the injury excuse for now, but it won’t work in the future. I don’t see him making much of an impact against the top flight teams in the future.

Another minnow-basher in the making.
 
Mamoon said:
He has been found out. New Zealand learned how to not give him wickets, while South Africa have not only negated him but they have also taken him to the cleaners.

He can hide behind the injury excuse for now, but it won’t work in the future. I don’t see him making much of an impact against the top flight teams in the future.

Another minnow-basher in the making.
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Didn't he have a SLAP lesion in his right shoulder. He should have been given enough time to rehabilitate and come back from that. Not sure why he played this series.
 
He looks nowhere near full fitness.

Why is he being played when not fully fit.
 
Mamoon said:
He has been found out. New Zealand learned how to not give him wickets, while South Africa have not only negated him but they have also taken him to the cleaners.

He can hide behind the injury excuse for now, but it won’t work in the future. I don’t see him making much of an impact against the top flight teams in the future.

Another minnow-basher in the making.
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As I said it’s only matter before you attack him so basically no cricketer can have an off series coming off an injury,he has taken wickets vs Eng and Aus so he ain’t no minnow basher.
 
Whatever is the reason , he is very off colour in this series . He has bowled wayward , given freebies almost every over. He did not look threatening at all except one or two spell .
 
Xoib said:
As I said it’s only matter before you attack him so basically no cricketer can have an off series coming off an injury,he has taken wickets vs Eng and Aus so he ain’t no minnow basher.
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He is accurate so if you play recklessly against him he will get you out. At that time, he was a nobody so teams didn’t show him any respect.

Now that he has made a name for himself, teams like New Zealand were cautious against him and he failed to penetrate their defenses.

However, it is quite worrying how South Africa have not only succeeded in not giving him wickets, they have also milked him like a spring goat.

We can run with the injury excuse for now, but let’s see how long that sticks.
 
Mamoon said:
He is accurate so if you play recklessly against him he will get you out. At that time, he was a nobody so teams didn’t show him any respect.

Now that he has made a name for himself, teams like New Zealand were cautious against him and he failed to penetrate their defenses.

However, it is quite worrying how South Africa have not only succeeded in not giving him wickets, they have also milked him like a spring goat.

We can run with the injury excuse for now, but let’s see how long that sticks.
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He has not bowled well simple it has nothing to do with being found out he has bowled both sides and missed his length it could do with fitness it could do with consistency .If he bowls like his normal self and still don’t take wickets I will be worried in this series he has not bowled to his strength hence struggled
 
Looks like the hype brigade that made him the next Asif and McGrath is nowhere to be seen.

The so called leader of the attack cannot get wickets for two series in a row now.

But of course, an emotional fan is gonna turn up here claiming how "well" he bowled and "looked" with his 120kph thunderbolts.

Just couldn't perform.

Anyway, he needs to adapt like I've been saying. One dimensional bowling at 120kph will not make him a long term success.

For Pak s sake I hope he starts taking wickets again.
 
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Moral of the story - Abbas is not a strike bowler by design, he’s a stock bowler who can keep things tight and contribute with 2fers and 3fers on a consistent basis. You need to find a pace bowler even if he is raw who can give you something different, and be able to bowl short and sharp spells only interested in attacking and taking wickets, what used to be called a strike bowler in the olden days - which you use as a weapon.

The problem here is this attack is all bowling with the same style , keep it tight and wait for the batsman to make mistakes — if that approach was that effective in all conditions then England pacers of the 80s and 90s would have won them test matches all over the world.
 
One area he has to improve is taking the ball away from the RHB. Once teams negate his offcutter it makes him much easier to face
 
Majid Khan said:
Moral of the story - Abbas is not a strike bowler by design, he’s a stock bowler who can keep things tight and contribute with 2fers and 3fers on a consistent basis. You need to find a pace bowler even if he is raw who can give you something different, and be able to bowl short and sharp spells only interested in attacking and taking wickets, what used to be called a strike bowler in the olden days - which you use as a weapon.

The problem here is this attack is all bowling with the same style , keep it tight and wait for the batsman to make mistakes — if that approach was that effective in all conditions then England pacers of the 80s and 90s would have won them test matches all over the world.
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Bowling coach has instilled his medium pace line and length tactics into our potent attack.

As long as Azhar Mahmood is there, we won't improve.
 
Majid Khan said:
Moral of the story - Abbas is not a strike bowler by design, he’s a stock bowler who can keep things tight and contribute with 2fers and 3fers on a consistent basis. You need to find a pace bowler even if he is raw who can give you something different, and be able to bowl short and sharp spells only interested in attacking and taking wickets, what used to be called a strike bowler in the olden days - which you use as a weapon.

The problem here is this attack is all bowling with the same style , keep it tight and wait for the batsman to make mistakes — if that approach was that effective in all conditions then England pacers of the 80s and 90s would have won them test matches all over the world.
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Agreed we need a world class 90 mph to complete this atttack the likes of Abbas would feed off on such a bowler Amir should have been that guy but alas he will never be maybe Shaheen will be the one to do it in future
 
Xoib said:
One area he has to improve is taking the ball away from the RHB. Once teams negate his offcutter it makes him much easier to face
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That's what teams have been doing as well.

And at that slow pace he's easy to counter without an outswinger.
 
Poor guy looks worn out and gone.

In this situation, the team management are risking the player making his injury worse and being out for a long time.
 
Hawkeye said:
That's what teams have been doing as well.

And at that slow pace he's easy to counter without an outswinger.
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Agreed he only needs one that straightens and he will be back in business cricket is about evolving your game with time
 
Saj said:
Poor guy looks worn out and gone.

In this situation, the team management are risking the player making his injury worse and being out for a long time.
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I guess at least he will get some rest after this test and I don't expect him to play a lot in PSL either.
 
New Yorker said:
Well I agree that if he has 6-8 Tests in which he averages 35-40 his average might worsen. No sense in arguing with tautology. But it rather depends on on how much he averages in the other series too. He just came out one in the UAE in which he averaged 9. So you have to explain why we should assume that he will do so poorly overall in the future, when he has already played on the worst pitches in the world. Again, I do think it is likely that he will do worse, but I also feel there is a good chance he keeps himself below 20. And that his average goes down even more after the SAF series before it goes up.
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End of SA series, his average is 18.86. He started with 16.62. Average went up by 2+ and that's mainly due to low sample size. That's what many posters were pointing out. He had low sample size of averaging 15 and it's extremely hard to maintain that over a long period.

Let's see how he does in the next 3-4 series.
 
People need to relax and let him be, he has the reputation of being a real hard worker, always wanting to improve and even Asif commented that Abbas was always asking him questions about bowling and eager to receive tips, advice from him
 
He is returning from injury so its hard to judge, but his lack of pace will allow international class batsmen to adjust and play him. Lets see how he goes from here.
 
A staggering strike rate of 90 in the series sums up the story.Had the other pakistani pacers supported Amir, this series could have been a different story,
IMO the Pakistani batsmen played better than their Indian counter parts
 
Also do not forget how NZ worked him out batting outside the crease. Sarfraz needs to help him out by standing up to the stumps.
 
5 wickets at an average of 46.20
Strike-rate of 88.8

Horrible stats.
 
Disappointing series for him. However, the injury has restricted him and like the other bowlers, has received very little support from the batsmen.

Should bounce back though, he's a very good bowler.
 
Ok so lets get into it.


What has prevented Muhammad Abbas from performing well in this tour?

From what I have gathered

a) Inexperience

This is his very first time bowling on the high bounce wickets of South Africa. He had to learn on the job and the batsmen made him pay for it.

b) Batsmen Standing Outside the Crease

The SA batsmen came out with a definite plan to counter Abbas. They stood outside the crease a strategy that has been effective against him in the past as well. Sarfraz was unwilling to move up to the stumps, because of the bounce I'm guessing, and so Abbas was neutralized.

c) Unable to Target The Stumps

Closely related to point 'b'. Abbas's bowling strategy can be summed up as: "you miss I hit". A big reason behind his previous success was the fact that Abbas was hitting the stumps almost 40% of the time. This came down to almost 10% if I remember correctly. The main reasons being the higher bounce and the batsman standing outside his crease. The end result was that despite hitting the pads and appealing for lbw a number of times he couldn't get the dismissal. He was reluctant to pitch it further up because that created run scoring opportunities on these quicker pitches.

d) The Big Question: New Ball Swing! Where is it?!?!

So I have pointed it out before when I made a thread about Abbas (which I can't find). Abbas is able to hit the seam and get something out of the pitch with remarkable regularity. But he doesn't bowl get the conventional swing, something that his counter part Vernon Philander does. So the question needs to be asked that why hasn't Abbas developed this part of his game? Why is he unable to bowl with an upright seam and get the ball to swing away, something which will add a whole new dimension to his range of attack.

e) The Lack of a Strike Bowler

Pakistan doesn't have anybody who can force the issue in their bowling attack. Someone with real pace and skill who is continuously at the batsmen. SA have Steyn, Rabada and even Olivier who fit the bill but Pakistan? Hassan and Shaheen have the potential definitely but while Hassan is quick he isn't very quick and he hasn't shown the discipline and maturity needed. Shaheen has shown to have the raw talent and has proven to be a handful with his height and pace he isn't express either yet and his lack of experience was on clear display. Pakistan need to look for bowlers who have genuine pace and preferably good height to go along with it.

f) Some Poor Fielding and Captaincy

So this needs to be pointed out. Abbas was let down by the field a couple of times. Field placements needed to be better as well, short leg was missing almost the entire time and I can recall a good number of balls that were lobbed into that area which could have resulted in dismissals.

g) Injury

One should keep this in mind. His shoulder problems did mess up his rhythm and effect his pace. In the 3rd test his economy rate was uncharacteristically higher.
 
Playing his third match of the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy this season, has just 3 wickets so far. Averaging 70ish. Not ideal preparation for the Australia Tests.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Playing his third match of the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy this season, has just 3 wickets so far. Averaging 70ish. Not ideal preparation for the Australia Tests.
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True. He is our most experienced pacer in test squad for Aus tour but doesnt look in great form. He was doing decently in county cricket where wickets suited him but wickets are gonna be flat in Aus too, so he better find his form which he displayed vs Aus in UAE.
 
His form is a real worry. I think this could very well be his last series for Pakistan. Was below par in county cricket too this season.
 
He struggled at Leicestershire this season and was nowhere near the bowler he was in the previous season.

He's had some personal problems with the illness of his brother and on top of that some injury concerns.
 
17 wickets against Australia and 10 against England (since we're discounting wickets against all other teams like SL and WI, let's hope you apply this to all bowlers). His only two bad series have come against the Kiwis and SA, which were shrouded in injury. Once/if fully fit, he should be a handful again.
 
Saj said:
He struggled at Leicestershire this season and was nowhere near the bowler he was in the previous season.

He's had some personal problems with the illness of his brother and on top of that some injury concerns.
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He struggled?

He averaged a shade over 25 with 29 wickets in 9 games. Of those who averaged better, only 16 had more wickets and all but two of them played more games. Almost all of them were slow bowlers of some sort and not medium/fast or fast/medium.

This wasn't Abbas the UAE wrecker but it was still a very good performer, who is struggling against injury, not against taking wickets and giving away very few runs. It also didn't help that Leicestershire were probably the weakest side across all the county divisions.

So yeah, not exactly struggling to an objective observer.
 
Hawkeye said:
We sure do like our hype trains.

Abbas has seen a phenomenal entry into Test cricket, but so far his performances have been either against minnows, or depleted low morale lineup of Australia. That too not in Australia.

His England tour was good, but those were ideal seaming conditions and NOVELTY was also a factor - opposition did not know how to counter him, had not watched or studied him.

So, before we start claiming Abbas is better than Rabada, Steyn, Asif, et. al. , calm down and get a reality check.

He can do good, and nobody says after 20-30 Tests he cannot become a good to great bowler.

But he cannot be compared to greats at this stage. Has a lot to prove, now that opposition will study him. Will either fade away or come out on top.
.
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Right, But nobody is claiming that he is better than Rabada, Steyn or Asif. He was only compared to Vernon Philander and that ended when he didn't have a good series against South Africa. He was tried for Odi before world cup and then the whole idea was dropped.

There is zero Hype around Abbas.

No Need for a Reality check.
 
barah_admi said:
He struggled?

He averaged a shade over 25 with 29 wickets in 9 games. Of those who averaged better, only 16 had more wickets and all but two of them played more games. Almost all of them were slow bowlers of some sort and not medium/fast or fast/medium.

This wasn't Abbas the UAE wrecker but it was still a very good performer, who is struggling against injury, not against taking wickets and giving away very few runs. It also didn't help that Leicestershire were probably the weakest side across all the county divisions.

So yeah, not exactly struggling to an objective observer.
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Compared to the previous season, he was nowhere near as good.

29 wickets in 9 games is hardly earth-shattering form.
 
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This is the challenge of international cricket, as you become respected, teams will research and make plans to counter you and that is always possible when a bowler does not have enough pace and already teams have started to counter Abbass by standing outside the crease, by playing him with a straight bat and not across the line and he doesn't really have a consistent outswinger to pose confusing questions.

Even Jonathan Trott had finally figured Asif out on the 2010 by standing outside the crease, and he figured out at what Length Asif will pitch the ball for the outswinger and at what Length he will pitch the ball for the inswinger, he comfortably left the outswingers and for the inswinger he ensured he was always struck outside the line of the stumps taking the LBW out of the equation. Masterful batting
 
Worrying signs considering he is supposed to be the leader of the attack in Australia.

I think he will find it tough, especially in the Day test.
 
i depsise trundlers like him and vernon who are very one dimensional players. Unless you are as skillful as mcgrath then don't bowl below 130s.

I am sorry but I really hope pakistan drops this guy permanently for away tours to SENA countries.

Stick with young studs like shaheen, musa and naseem. They have serious potential.
 
He is struggling in the QeA trophy, and those slow and low conditions supposedly support his type of bowling. He will struggle in Australia, especially at the Gabba. He might be slightly better at Adelaide.

All the batsmen have to do is stand a bit out of the crease. That way Abbas will have to bowl very full to hit the stumps and will go for runs. If he bowls his normal length the batsmen can easily leave him on length.
 
I knew Muhammad Abbas wont last long. He may have perfomred brilliantly last year but he wont last long and his performance in this years QeA, SA tour show he is startung to decline. He doesn't get a lot swing (its only england where he gets a lot of swing as seen in the last england tour) and he is way too slow, he will get very few wickets in most countries. Honestly, Pakistan should move on from Muhammad Abbas, Mohammad Amir, Wahab Riaz (and others liek Hasan Ali and also should stop bringing other seniors liek imran khan sr, mohammad irfan etc.) and focus on Shaheen, Musa Khan, Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Muhammad Hasnain, Sameen Gul (and there are more potentials like Ahmed Bashir, Khurram Shezad)
 
Bilal Ahmad15 said:
I knew Muhammad Abbas wont last long. He may have perfomred brilliantly last year but he wont last long and his performance in this years QeA, SA tour show he is startung to decline. He doesn't get a lot swing (its only england where he gets a lot of swing as seen in the last england tour) and he is way too slow, he will get very few wickets in most countries. Honestly, Pakistan should move on from Muhammad Abbas, Mohammad Amir, Wahab Riaz (and others liek Hasan Ali and also should stop bringing other seniors liek imran khan sr, mohammad irfan etc.) and focus on Shaheen, Musa Khan, Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Muhammad Hasnain, Sameen Gul (and there are more potentials like Ahmed Bashir, Khurram Shezad)
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I agree. Muhammad Abbas has always been limited and it was only a matter of time before teams figured how to play him. He only has a small outswinger and accuracy. We saw what happened in SA when he couldn't find his spot. We also saw how NZ countered him so easily last year by standing out of the crease.

He had a poor county championship (yes he averaged in the 20s, but it's grade 2 county and a world class bowler should be averaging sub 20 there, in idead conditions for him). He's had a terrible QeA trophy.
 
You simply cannot be unfit in the modern era. In the past prior to 2010 you can get away with being pudgy/unfit and unatheltic but not anymore. Fitness levels are at an all time high.

Abbas is not good enough physically to play for pakistan and should be discarded asap. He is far too slow, plodding, unfit and unatheltic to represent pakistan.

shaaheen, Naseem, musa is the future. husnain backup.
hasan ali, shinwari are on standby as well.

amir is done in tests.
 
Abbas benefited greatly from the previous green-tops in F/C cricket. However, the pitches have been mostly flat this season and he hasn’t looked very threatening at all. The Australian series is coming a terrible time for him because there is no way someone like him is going to do well in those conditions.
 
Mamoon said:
Abbas benefited greatly from the previous green-tops in F/C cricket. However, the pitches have been mostly flat this season and he hasn’t looked very threatening at all. The Australian series is coming a terrible time for him because there is no way someone like him is going to do well in those conditions.
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I almost agree, but Adelaide will be a pink ball greentop and he might do well there.

He will be massacred at Brisbane though.
 
Junaids said:
I almost agree, but Adelaide will be a pink ball greentop and he might do well there.

He will be massacred at Brisbane though.
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He had more favourable conditions in County and South Africa but he failed there. I don't see him doing well in Adelaide either.
 
Mohammad Abbas took two for 86 in 23 overs for Southern Punjab vs Northern
 
You couldn't have asked for much more from Abbas against England (almost 18 months ago) and around this time last year he was exceptional against Australia in the UAE. Yes they didn't have Warner and Smith but to accomplish what he did on the most unforgiving of pitches in this world against a batting unit known for their firm response against pace bowlers on flat wickets was truly outstanding. To claim he hasn't performed against any of the top teams is nothing but fake news.

It's such a shame that his success at the top will be a short lived one.
 
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A support bowler at best. It was hilarious how some on PP were calling him the best test bowler in the world after 1/2 good series. If you want some comedy, go and read the thread about the test bowler in the world. Abbas was far in front on the poll, even Amir was getting votes LOL.

We are the kings of of overhyping and than destroying our own players.
 
Hasan123 said:
A support bowler at best. It was hilarious how some on PP were calling him the best test bowler in the world after 1/2 good series. If you want some comedy, go and read the thread about the test bowler in the world. Abbas was far in front on the poll, even Amir was getting votes LOL.

We are the kings of of overhyping and than destroying our own players.
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when you bowl under 130 k, no matter how good you are no one will take you seriously. This guy being regarded as the second coming of asif is a joke and an insult to asif.

trundlers like him and philander are very condition and pitch specific type bowlers. They will be rendered useless on unfamiliar conditions.
 
Slog said:
he was a beast in the county scene
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He regressed this season.

In 2018, he took 50 wickets at 17.72

In 2019, he took 29 wickets at 25.75

We have to remember his team played in the second division- so an average of 26 is not very impressive.
 
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Prince of Pakistan said:
Also do not forget how NZ worked him out batting outside the crease. Sarfraz needs to help him out by standing up to the stumps.
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England did the same against Asif in 2010. He wasn't as effective afterwards. People here talk as if Asif was the greatest gift to mankind. We forget that Asif was largely innocuous throughout the series after England started to play against him outside the crease. We also lost 3-1.
 
People need to relax. Yes he is not a world beater but let's not diss or insult him either, he doesn't give outlandish statements or big himself, brag about himself either, he goes about his job quietly
 
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waleed88 said:
England did the same against Asif in 2010. He wasn't as effective afterwards. People here talk as if Asif was the greatest gift to mankind. We forget that Asif was largely innocuous throughout the series after England started to play against him outside the crease. We also lost 3-1.
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Jonathan Trott worked out the perfect formula to negate Asif especially in the 4th test match
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
Also do not forget how NZ worked him out batting outside the crease. Sarfraz needs to help him out by standing up to the stumps.
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Rizwan kept in that match as Sarfaraz got injured or something, and he kept up to the stumps, it still didn't work though. It will be quite difficult to keep up to the stumps to Abbas in Australia, but no harm trying.
 
And people crucified me for saying it.

Same when I used to call out Asad Shafiq!

Anyway, I do hope he can do something in the Aus series, we need him to.
 
Saj said:
Compared to the previous season, he was nowhere near as good.

29 wickets in 9 games is hardly earth-shattering form.
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I did not say it was "earth shattering" but it is a universe away from struggling. The guy picked wickets, barely gave any wickets while having to bowl returning from injury.

We should be fair in detailing that.
 
barah_admi said:
I did not say it was "earth shattering" but it is a universe away from struggling. The guy picked wickets, barely gave any wickets while having to bowl returning from injury.

We should be fair in detailing that.
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29 wickets in 9 four-day matches in a pretty weak 2nd Division of the County Championship is below-par for a bowler of his standard.
 
Saj said:
29 wickets in 9 four-day matches in a pretty weak 2nd Division of the County Championship is below-par for a bowler of his standard.
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So if you believe his standard is 50 wickets at an average 10 then that is you and you are being unrealistic.

Abbas had an exceptional first season in the international game but not many can or have maintained that in any form of cricket. He then had to come back from injury, to do that in a very weak team and be one of their better players, in a foreign land is very good.

Again, you're original post was that he struggled, he did not by any metric. I can't say more on it.
 
barah_admi said:
So if you believe his standard is 50 wickets at an average 10 then that is you and you are being unrealistic.

Abbas had an exceptional first season in the international game but not many can or have maintained that in any form of cricket. He then had to come back from injury, to do that in a very weak team and be one of their better players, in a foreign land is very good.

Again, you're original post was that he struggled, he did not by any metric. I can't say more on it.
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Nobody is expecting 50 wickets at an average of 10 all the time, that's obvious.

We will have to agree to disagree. A bowler of his standards should be taking more than 29 wickets in 9 First-class matches in Division 2 of a pretty weak County Championship.
 
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barah_admi said:
So if you believe his standard is 50 wickets at an average 10 then that is you and you are being unrealistic.

Abbas had an exceptional first season in the international game but not many can or have maintained that in any form of cricket. He then had to come back from injury, to do that in a very weak team and be one of their better players, in a foreign land is very good.

Again, you're original post was that he struggled, he did not by any metric. I can't say more on it.
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Have you even seen the batting standards in county grade 2. Half the batsmen are 2 levels below international standard. He should be averaging a maximum of 22 over there.

If he’s Supposedly Pakistan’s best test bowler, then we should really be worried for the Aus and England series.
 
Signs are worrying, but he has earned the chance to go to Aus based on his past record.
Let us hope he can find his length quickly on those pitches
 
Danyaalr01 said:
Have you even seen the batting standards in county grade 2. Half the batsmen are 2 levels below international standard. He should be averaging a maximum of 22 over there.

If he’s Supposedly Pakistan’s best test bowler, then we should really be worried for the Aus and England series.
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Not to mention that unlike Australia, the conditions in England are tailor-made to his style of bowling
 
Abbas will be our main guy in australia , though we are likely to lose both test by an innings margin with failing azhar and asad and fast bowling trio of imran khan , abbas and shaheen afridi.
 
The world took note of him after the brilliant series against Australia in the UAE last year. As a result, they focused on negating him and he hasn’t been able to come up with an answer.

He has failed in 3 consecutive series and he is getting slower and slower because of his age. Fitness levels are dodgy as well. It appears that his best days are behind him.

Pakistan cricket truly is in shambles.
 
:))

Told people about Abbas a long time back. Nobody believed me.

The reality is, we do not have any quality bowlers. Only Shaheen and Naseem have some potential.

Sameen, Ehsan, Musa are all 3rd grade.
 
Revolution said:
Last week there was over action for not selecting him.

Now bashing started for bowler
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Yes. Never believe the PPers hype or wrist slitting that immediately follows after a loss. Or someone's bad/good performance.

If you were not a part of that hype bandwagon, then you're safe.
 
What a thread by [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]

Considering the timing of this thread when Abbas was actually looking like a world beater is particularly impressive.
 
He was threatening when he was bowling above 130 with many deliveries in 135-140 kph range but since his return from injury in SA he has been considerably slow.

This should be his last test. A bowler bowling at 120s has no business playing test cricket.
 
Hyperion66 said:
What a thread by [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]

Considering the timing of this thread when Abbas was actually looking like a world beater is particularly impressive.
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Thank you. :najam

The mass wrist slitting that happened here when Abbas didn't play the 1st Test, you'd think we made a blunder by benching him.

It was, in fact, a favor to Abbas. Turned him into a McGrath overnight among the average PPer.
 
He should never play test cricket again unless he improves himself. It is humilating to watch him bowl :))

No bowler can survive with that sort of pace
 
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