Mohammad Amir has now delivered in two ICC Tournament Finals!

[shaz619]

This glorified warm up was the reason Amir played in the side for a whole year without any performance to show for it until now..

We are allowing alot of free run in the side by giving Amir leeway to perform only once a year

Which is why Amir should have fun in the first team without any performance because he will perform in a final...

2009 Wt20 is quite a far stretch 4 overs for 30 runs and 1 wicket is hardly amazing, it was Razzaq who destroyed the Srilankan lineup but ofcourse whatever suits the narrative

What do you mean the warm up was the reason why Amir played in the side without performance? what do you mean exactly?

Razzaq has been given due credit but it is naive to suggest Amir's spell was not instrumental in victory, he defeated the man of the tournament; Dilshan's wicket was absolutely crucial.

Also, name me all the Pakistani bowlers who have delivered more then one ICC Trophy out of WT20, CT and WC. And then I want you to describe what they mean to you compared to other limited overs accomplishments based on what you need to be prestigious.

 

[shaz619]

This glorified warm up was the reason Amir played in the side for a whole year without any performance to show for it until now..

We are allowing alot of free run in the side by giving Amir leeway to perform only once a year

Which is why Amir should have fun in the first team without any performance because he will perform in a final...

2009 Wt20 is quite a far stretch 4 overs for 30 runs and 1 wicket is hardly amazing, it was Razzaq who destroyed the Srilankan lineup but ofcourse whatever suits the narrative

Also, no offence waleed88 but which team were you supporting during the CT final
[MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

Amir is the leader of our pace bowling attack - there is no two ways about it.

Hasan was amazing during the CT and Junaid also showed promise.

However, Amir is the senior bowler and is/should be the one leading the attack.

Since he is the leader of the attack, we need him to step up in key crunch moments, and he fight back when the team really needs it.

The T20 WC Final and the recent CT Final are very good examples of that. However, a nother good example was in the T20 Asia Cup VS India in Bangladesh, when we got bundled out for 84, it was a big game against the arch rivals and the guy came out all guns blazing.

I agree he is the leader of our attack no doubt, clutch performer; people think it's easy to get the ball to do a bit in batting favourable conditions but you could probably count on one hand the small number of names who can get the ball to deviate a little. That spell was incredible, really enjoyed it as well. Still not sure why we still have a cuppa haters

 

[Arsalan Pro]

He is very strong mentally and thus doesn't let pressure get hold of him on big occasions. Big players perform on Big stages and he is one of them. InshaAllah he will win more Finals for Pakistan with the next one being ICC World Cup Final 2019.

 

[TalhaSyed]

I agree he is the leader of our attack no doubt, clutch performer; people think it's easy to get the ball to do a bit in batting favourable conditions but you could probably count on one hand the small number of names who can get the ball to deviate a little. That spell was incredible, really enjoyed it as well. Still not sure why we still have a cuppa haters

Haters gonna hate man!

The guy has without a doubt been our most consistent bowler, and it's disappointing that the stats don't show that.

Alhumdullilah though - he steps up when it matters.

Removing Tendulkar in CT 2009

Removing Dilshan in T20 2009

Demolishing the Australian & the English batting line ups in 2010


Removing the Indian top order in the Asia Cup in 2016 and almost making 84 seem like a defendable total

Removing the Indian top order in the CT 2017 Final

InshAllah he keeps working at his game and the rewards will come.

 

[shaz619]

Haters gonna hate man!

The guy has without a doubt been our most consistent bowler, and it's disappointing that the stats don't show that.

Alhumdullilah though - he steps up when it matters.

Removing Tendulkar in CT 2009

Removing Dilshan in T20 2009

Demolishing the Australian & the English batting line ups in 2010


Removing the Indian top order in the Asia Cup in 2016 and almost making 84 seem like a defendable total

Removing the Indian top order in the CT 2017 Final

InshAllah he keeps working at his game and the rewards will come.

I admit I've been frustrated with him as well at times because I know what he is and should be capable off but it has to be said the man has not had the best of support, however when a bowler does well I find it strange that anyone can actually resort to criticism it's really bizarre; at the end of the day you want everyone who plays for Pakistan to do well and win Trophies, it is insane how there are still people pelting him with stones despite the fact that he has now delivered two out of three ICC trophies

 

[waleed88]

What do you mean the warm up was the reason why Amir played in the side without performance? what do you mean exactly?

Razzaq has been given due credit but it is naive to suggest Amir's spell was not instrumental in victory, he defeated the man of the tournament; Dilshan's wicket was absolutely crucial.

Also, name me all the Pakistani bowlers who have delivered more then one ICC Trophy out of WT20, CT and WC. And then I want you to describe what they mean to you compared to other limited overs accomplishments based on what you need to be prestigious.

I like this, first you will have to start by saying how many finals do most of our players have played for Pakistan ever... not even someone like Akram has played more than 2 finals for ICC tournaments for Pak.

the 'glorified warmup' statement was given by you in which Asia cup t20 was a warmup before the start of the 'actual world t20' (where Amir didn't do anything btw)

I would still rate Amir's spell in the first world cup just as a sideshow to Razzaq's and Afridis.. it happens tournaments's top scorers usually don't end up playing in the finals because of increased expectations.. happens to the best even Sachin.. but that is where other team members like Sanga Jaya and Jayasuria come in for Srilanka... only Sanga went onto bat, did Amir get him out? no

Infact it was Razzaq who got out both Jaya and Mahela which is why he deserves the credit you are trying to give Amir which is factually wrong... and hardly a 'match winning spell'

 

[shaz619]

I like this, first you will have to start by saying how many finals do most of our players have played for Pakistan ever... not even someone like Akram has played more than 2 finals for ICC tournaments for Pak.

I would still rate Amir's spell in the first world cup just as a sideshow to Razzaq's.. it happens tournaments's top scorers usually don't end up playing in the finals because of increased expectations.. happens to the best even Sachin.. but that is where other team members like Sanga Jaya and Jayasuria come in for Srilanka... only Sanga went onto bat, did Amir get him out? no

Infact it was Razzaq who got out both Jaya and Mahela which is why he deserves the credit you are trying to give Amir which is factually wrong... and hardly a 'match winning spell'

Regardless of whatever agenda it is you have, from the top of my head you've been among the lobby who have bee overly critical of Amir I think and while I have criticised objectively in the past it is just silly to play down the significance of his performances resulting in two ICC Trophies, so put your ego aside and give credit where due.

His spell in the CT final was instrumental.

Hs spell in the WT20 was also instrumental, had we not taken the wicket of Dilshan man of the tournament then we risked allowing SL to get off to a flyer; it was a team effort no doubt but Amir's spell was excellent in setting up our win.

 

[waleed88]

Infact Mohammad Amir's last over against Mathews, where he conceded 19 runs in a final of the world t20... hardly match winning if you ask me [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION].

Infact the way Pakistan team is this could've been match losing on another day

19.1

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 2 runs, steps to leg and opens himself up, this goes miles in the air wide of mid-off. Younis gives chase but can't quite pull off a catch - good effort though!
19.2

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, FOUR, short, wide and sliced for four to third man! No stopping that! That's absolutely shot for four
19.3

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, SIX, what a shot! A monstrous, massive heave over midwicket for the tournament's 162nd six. He absolutely nailed that!
19.4

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 2 runs, better and fuller, pulled from outside off to long-on for a single to get Sangakkara back on strike. No! They take two. Well clearly Kumar's happy with Mathews in this kind of form, and why not?
19.5

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 1 run, full, nearly a yorker, and pumped to mid-on. A rapid throw nearly flies for overthrows, but it's cleaned up
19.6

Mohammad Amir to Sangakkara, 2 runs, nice and full and smudged through midwicket

 

[shaz619]

Infact Mohammad Amir's last over against Mathews, where he conceded 19 runs in a final of the world t20... hardly match winning if you ask me [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION].

Infact the way Pakistan team is this could've been match losing on another day

19.1

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 2 runs, steps to leg and opens himself up, this goes miles in the air wide of mid-off. Younis gives chase but can't quite pull off a catch - good effort though!
19.2

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, FOUR, short, wide and sliced for four to third man! No stopping that! That's absolutely shot for four
19.3

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, SIX, what a shot! A monstrous, massive heave over midwicket for the tournament's 162nd six. He absolutely nailed that!
19.4

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 2 runs, better and fuller, pulled from outside off to long-on for a single to get Sangakkara back on strike. No! They take two. Well clearly Kumar's happy with Mathews in this kind of form, and why not?
19.5

Mohammad Amir to Mathews, 1 run, full, nearly a yorker, and pumped to mid-on. A rapid throw nearly flies for overthrows, but it's cleaned up
19.6

Mohammad Amir to Sangakkara, 2 runs, nice and full and smudged through midwicket

The damage had already been done, had Amir not taken out Dilshan; SL could have been 210 for 4

 

[waleed88]

My bad 17 runs*

 

[waleed88]

The damage had already been done, had Amir not taken out Dilshan; SL could have been 210 for 4

Don't think Dilshan could've done that, we had Gul Afridi and Ajmal... and Razzaq the surprise package.. however hope you got my point 'this could've been match losing on another day'

 

[waleed88]

Regardless of whatever agenda it is you have, from the top of my head you've been among the lobby who have bee overly critical of Amir I think and while I have criticised objectively in the past it is just silly to play down the significance of his performances resulting in two ICC Trophies, so put your ego aside and give credit where due.

His spell in the CT final was instrumental.

Hs spell in the WT20 was also instrumental, had we not taken the wicket of Dilshan man of the tournament then we risked allowing SL to get off to a flyer; it was a team effort no doubt but Amir's spell was excellent in setting up our win.

This is like saying if Umar Gul got Chris Gayle out in 2011 world cup quarter final... we should call his spell match winning and give him more credit than the spin bowlers that actually demolished WI for a score just above 100 (remember Gayle was top notch in that tournament).. I know this sort of bias only comes in for Mohammad Amir, and a justification to his 'under-performance' but I would consider a guy conceding 17 runs in the final of a World t20 barely 'match winning'..

 

[waleed88]

It was his debut, yes or no ??

Considering his age as well he was atstounding.

Honestly you need to rid of that rock on your shoulder. Getting tiresome now and obvious your hatred has no bounds.

If I am presenting logic and trying to burst the bubble of fanboism... it must ripple a few feathers..

infact before this final's performance, everyone said Amir has been a p*** poor bowler, even his fans admitted that...

When bowlers like Mohammad Abbas and Sohail Khan out perform you in test matches, while Junaid Khan and Hasan Ali outperform you in ODIs, despite all this you still get selected because of your 'past exploits', you will eventually come up with a good performance once a year..

What's the difference between Wahab and Amir? Wahab was our blue eyed boy before Amir came back, (who did well in ICC tournaments) but had a lean patch most of the time in between that almost lasted 4 years..

 

[shaz619]

Don't think Dilshan could've done that, we had Gul Afridi and Ajmal... and Razzaq the surprise package.. however hope you got my point 'this could've been match losing on another day'

Dilshan's tournament average was 53 with a high score of 96*

SL ended with 138 with a Dilshan which had been dismissed for 0 runs.

In games where Dilshan fired, these were SL's scores:

158 vs WI (96* from Dilshan)

158 vs NZ (48 from Dilshan)

150 vs Pakistan (46 from Dilshan) SL would win by 19 runs Amir did not take Dilshan's wicket in this game.

192 vs WI (74* from Dilshan)

160 vs AUS (52 from Dilshan)

As you can see Dilshan was instrumental in his team putting on a competitive total, hence Pakistan made specific plans to get him out early because it would be key to our victory. Earlier in the group stage Pakistan lost to SL by 19 runs; in this game Dilshan top scored for his team. Pakistan would compatibly chase down 139 in 18.4 overs, had Dilshan fired then there'd have been a big probability of that not happening as we saw during the group game vs Lanka and all the other games where Dilshan put on a good total for his team.

 

[shaz619]

This is like saying if Umar Gul got Chris Gayle out in 2011 world cup quarter final... we should call his spell match winning and give him more credit than the spin bowlers that actually demolished WI for a score just above 100 (remember Gayle was top notch in that tournament).. I know this sort of bias only comes in for Mohammad Amir, and a justification to his 'under-performance' but I would consider a guy conceding 17 runs in the final of a World t20 barely 'match winning'..

It was a team effort but both spells were instrumental in helping his team claim those ICC Trophies, post 95 breaks down the significance of Dilshans wicket...

 

[waleed88]

Dilshan's tournament average was 53 with a high score of 96*

SL ended with 138 with a Dilshan which had been dismissed for 0 runs.

In games where Dilshan fired, these were SL's scores:

158 vs WI (96* from Dilshan)

158 vs NZ (48 from Dilshan)

150 vs Pakistan (46 from Dilshan) SL would win by 19 runs Amir did not take Dilshan's wicket in this game.

192 vs WI (74* from Dilshan)

160 vs AUS (52 from Dilshan)

As you can see Dilshan was instrumental in his team putting on a competitive total, hence Pakistan made specific plans to get him out early because it would be key to our victory. Earlier in the group stage Pakistan lost to SL by 19 runs; in this game Dilshan top scored for his team. Pakistan would compatibly chase down 139 in 18.4 overs, had Dilshan fired then there'd have been a big probability of that not happening as we saw during the group game vs Lanka and all the other games where Dilshan put on a good total for his team.

We have seen Srilanka been high chokers specially in World t20 stage, they needed another 3 tournaments to eventually win it against India... including a final that they lost against West Indies in their home ground despite being favorites... in hindsight, the finals don't show up the best Lanka

They again met a very electric Pakistan side in the 2012 edition of World t20... guess who conceded 16 runs in the final over of the match in that game? Umar Gul

The final score : around something similar to this game 139...

Guess how much Pakistan got bundled out for?

Alot of people blamed Umar Gul for the defeat as the final margin in the end was 16 runs... and he became the perennial villain..

Ofcourse that didn't happen in the final of 2009, but small margins can end up being match winning or losing...

Gul was the villain of that semi final because of his poor death bowling.. which is why I still believe Amir's only match winning spell to date is the CT 2017..

 

[shaz619]

We have seen Srilanka been high chokers specially in World t20 stage, they needed another 3 tournaments to eventually win it against India... including a final that they lost against West Indies in their home ground despite being favorites... in hindsight, the finals don't show up the best Lanka

They again met a very electric Pakistan side in the 2012 edition of World t20... guess who conceded 16 runs in the final over of the match in that game? Umar Gul

The final score : around something similar to this game 139...

Guess how much Pakistan got bundled out for?

Alot of people blamed Umar Gul for the defeat as the final margin in the end was 16 runs... and he became the perennial villain..

Ofcourse that didn't happen in the final of 2009, but small margins can end up being match winning or losing...

Gul was the villain of that semi final because of his poor death bowling.. which is why I still believe Amir's only match winning spell to date is the CT 2017..

Think you are ignoring what I've presented in post 95, after providing you all the context and Pakistan themselves stating the importance of Dilshan's wicket; you still feel it would be insignificant had we not dismissed him early. You speak of hypothetical scenario's, but the fact is Dilshan was the man of the tournament and the most important batsman in that tournament for Lanka it's just simple, when he fired they won games.

Both spells were instrumental in Pakistan claiming two ICC Trophies, the CT 2017 spell was more devastating no doubt but lets not play down the importance of Dilshan's wicket.

While the 2009 spell wasn't as devastating Amir still made an important contribution which helped his team win the WT20.

 

[waleed88]

A batting lineup giving three wickets to Razzaq and 1 wicket to Amir sounds like a choke to me than an actual performance.. an evidence of choke that they further went on to show in 2 other world t20 tournaments (a final in home conditions to WI in 2012, a semi final loss against England in 2010)... 1 world cup final against India of ODI WC 2011
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

A batting lineup giving three wickets to Razzaq and 1 wicket to Amir sounds like a choke to me than an actual performance.. an evidence of choke that they further went on to show in 2 other world t20 tournaments (a final in home conditions to WI in 2012, a semi final loss against England in 2010)... 1 world cup final against India of ODI WC 2011

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Your post is still hypothetical. Lets assume that it was a "choke" who induced that choke? Razzaq and Amir induced it by bowling well so full credit must be given to them.

In addition, I have already highlighted the importance of Dilshan's wicket and if you read up on the match build it involved mostly around dismissing Dilshan or game over for Pakistan. In the end it was a team effort and we all fired collectively as a unit but the Dilshan wicket was very very important in our victory.

 

[waleed88]

Think you are ignoring what I've presented in post 95, after providing you all the context and Pakistan themselves stating the importance of Dilshan's wicket; you still feel it would be insignificant had we not dismissed him early. You speak of hypothetical scenario's, but the fact is Dilshan was the man of the tournament and the most important batsman in that tournament for Lanka it's just simple, when he fired they won games. '
While the 2009 spell wasn't as devastating Amir still made an important contribution which helped his team win the WT20.

The problem is there are 10 other players who play in the team, Dilshan's wicket is not equal to 5 other wickets.. A performance throughout the tournament doesn't guarantee performance in the final, Sanga and Mathews did what Dilshan didn't do, but the overall result would still be the same, because wickets were tumbling at the other end, Pakistan were the better team on the day and our attack was just too good, and most of it had to do with them being 5-6 down for a nothing score... Amir's wicket was just one wicket... and Razzaq was the main destoryed of Srilanka... while Amir actually let go of the pressure that was created in the beginning by conceding 17 off his last over

 

[shaz619]

The problem is there are 10 other players who play in the team, Dilshan's wicket is not equal to 5 other wickets.. A performance throughout the tournament doesn't guarantee performance in the final, Sanga and Mathews did what Dilshan didn't do, but the overall result would still be the same, because wickets were tumbling at the other end, Pakistan were the better team on the day and our attack was just too good, and most of it had to do with them being 5-6 down for a nothing score... Amir's wicket was just one wicket... and Razzaq was the main destoryed of Srilanka... while Amir actually let go of the pressure that was created in the beginning by conceding 17 off his last over

But most 95 highlights how precious Dilshan's wicket was and the contributions he made which ensured Lanka had a competitive total throughout the tournament, they relied mostly on him because the others were unable to make a significant impact. In the group game Lanka won by 19 runs vs Pakistan and Dilshan top scored with 46, in the final he was dismissed early by Amir and they scored fewer runs.

 

[waleed88]

Your post is still hypothetical. Lets assume that it was a "choke" who induced that choke? Razzaq and Amir induced it by bowling well so full credit must be given to them.

In addition, I have already highlighted the importance of Dilshan's wicket and if you read up on the match build it involved mostly around dismissing Dilshan or game over for Pakistan. In the end it was a team effort and we all fired collectively as a unit but the Dilshan wicket was very very important in our victory.

I respectfully disagree, Dilshan would've gotten out to someone eventually, as we have seen Srilanka are not big final performers, especially in this format. Pakistani bowlers enjoy English conditions, they are more adaptable to reverse swing, their main asset was a more complete attack compared to Lanka's which is why we dominated them...

they lost to WI in home conditions despite looking invincible in 2012.. so a choke is always on the cards (in this format), not referring to them as chokers on a whole

 

[waleed88]

But most 95 highlights how precious Dilshan's wicket was and the contributions he made which ensured Lanka had a competitive total throughout the tournament, they relied mostly on him because the others were unable to make a significant impact. In the group game Lanka won by 19 runs vs Pakistan and Dilshan top scored with 46, in the final he was dismissed early by Amir and they scored fewer runs.

There was alot wrong with that Pakistan side, we played Sohail Tanvir, we didn't have the right balance, we didn't have Razzaq in our side then, Afridi wasn't firing, we played salman butt, it had nothing to do with getting Dilshan out that day, it was a par total despite Dilshan playing his knock.. but we didn't lose because Dilshan batted out, but our balance in the side, and the personnel weren't the right ones

 

[shaz619]

I respectfully disagree, Dilshan would've gotten out to someone eventually, as we have seen Srilanka are not big final performers, especially in this format. Pakistani bowlers enjoy English conditions, they are more adaptable to reverse swing, their main asset was a more complete attack compared to Lanka's which is why we dominated them...

they lost to WI in home conditions despite looking invincible in 2012.. so a choke is always on the cards (in this format), not referring to them as chokers on a whole

You are basing your argument on Lanka choking in finals, however they won the 96 WC and recently a World T20 as well in 2014. This proves that winning or reaching finals is not as big a problem for them as it is for a team like SA who often have a team which is a lot stronger then most, it's something which is contagious. Therefore, we can't really bring this into the debate as it is insignificant and takes away credit from Pakistan's performance because they earned their victory it was not handed to them.

Furthermore, the facts are that Dilshan was the man of the tournament and significant to their team reaching the final; if a choke or other magic was expected to benefit Pakistan I doubt they would have made specific plans to get him out early so we must credit Amir for snaring him early it was a big moment and important breakthrough because as we had seen earlier in the tournament when Dilshan fired, Lanka won.

 

[shaz619]

There was alot wrong with that Pakistan side, we played Sohail Tanvir, we didn't have the right balance, we didn't have Razzaq in our side then, Afridi wasn't firing, we played salman butt, it had nothing to do with getting Dilshan out that day, it was a par total despite Dilshan playing his knock.. but we didn't lose because Dilshan batted out, but our balance in the side, and the personnel weren't the right ones

If you ignore that game and just focus on lanka you'd still see how instrumental he was when it came to his team reaching the final, no one can really play down his importance and this is also vindicated by his man of the tournament award.

 

[yasir]

Haters gonna hate man!

The guy has without a doubt been our most consistent bowler, and it's disappointing that the stats don't show that.

Alhumdullilah though - he steps up when it matters.

Removing Tendulkar in CT 2009

Removing Dilshan in T20 2009

Demolishing the Australian & the English batting line ups in 2010


Removing the Indian top order in the Asia Cup in 2016 and almost making 84 seem like a defendable total

Removing the Indian top order in the CT 2017 Final

InshAllah he keeps working at his game and the rewards will come.

As I said that in another thread, if fielders had taken those 12-15 catches last year, stats would be fine and he would have bowled 100 less overs in test, his quality and fitness would have improved ironically and not mention confidence, nothing raise your confidence more than wicket...Look at some of his wicket, first test, first one was Cook in 5 over at 20, who end up making 88(highest score of the innings). One of them was Moeen Ali, dropped at 3/9, end up making 110(again highest scorer of the match)...

This County season will help him a lot to get back his swing, getting closer to wicket and use more of lower body, pitching it up. This is the time when bowlers focus on fixing what we call in software terms technical Debt or infrastructure development rather than consumer side features!!

In this tournament, his reverse swing was noticeably improved as well. His yorkers were accurate and were more than in past, that was true for all bowlers, Credit goes to Azhar for planning side of the game, which was A+, Pakistan bowled best lengths for all three power plays.

 

[Brilliance]

Mohammad Amir and Shadab Khan are destined for great things, Insha Allah.

 

[90MPH]

If I am presenting logic and trying to burst the bubble of fanboism... it must ripple a few feathers..

infact before this final's performance, everyone said Amir has been a p*** poor bowler, even his fans admitted that...

When bowlers like Mohammad Abbas and Sohail Khan out perform you in test matches, while Junaid Khan and Hasan Ali outperform you in ODIs, despite all this you still get selected because of your 'past exploits', you will eventually come up with a good performance once a year..

What's the difference between Wahab and Amir? Wahab was our blue eyed boy before Amir came back, (who did well in ICC tournaments) but had a lean patch most of the time in between that almost lasted 4 years..

Honestly it's one thing having opinions but you have a pure hatred for the bowler.

I am not his ****** (unlike you who supports his local Karachi boys blindly), I want Pakistan to have the best players on the field on merit and perform competitively.

If Amir is not bowling well or not performing adequately then I have no problem whatsoever dropping him and replacing him with someone better. That can happen anytime now or the future.

However I have been following your posts for sometime and it's safe to say you are not just a hater but a vindictive one that has a habit of nitpicking everything on Amir from criticising him not getting swing to it getting wickets.

And when he does get wickets when it counts in a final you are nowhere to be seen or probable sulking in a coroner.

He performed when it mattered most against our arch rivals - be happy.

If we have better bowlers then he can be replaced. But reality is we don't because in 5 years we had to bring tried and tested failures like Mohammed Sami who never performs, especially crunch situations.

 

[Muhammad10]

Same game where he hobbled off injured because he was getting the treatment from Kohli Yuvraj?

Nothing like a good old conspiracy theory...

 

[Muhammad10]

28 runs and 5 wickets... in 4 games.. hardly spectacular if you ask me

if it weren't for Hasan Ali, we won't be anywhere near the final let alone smell it... Amir's name comes well after Fakhar Zaman and Junaid Khan

I didn't say it was a spectacular tournament for him, but an impressive one nevertheless. Multiple clutch displays, (batting against Sri Lanka and destroying India's chances in the final) and he also dismissed Sri Lanka's two top-scorers (Niroshan and Angelo). The only game he was truly mediocre in was the one against South Africa.

Like I already mentioned, he was miles ahead of the rest of our bowlers when India clobbered us, regardless of whatever conspiracy theories you may cook up.

Hasan and Fakhar were our two main stars, but Amir also played an integral role in key games. I don't have any more to say on this matter.

 

[Muhammad10]

Same game where he hobbled off injured because he was getting the treatment from Kohli Yuvraj?

Conceding 17 runs off the last 19 balls he bowled is hardly "getting the treatment" in a game where Pakistan conceded at well over 6-an over, by the way.

He only conceded four boundaries in that particular match, so there's no real scope for claims of him "getting the treatment". You just sound bitter, if anything.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Our best fast bowler in this team.

 

[yasir]

The problem is there are 10 other players who play in the team, Dilshan's wicket is not equal to 5 other wickets.. A performance throughout the tournament doesn't guarantee performance in the final, Sanga and Mathews did what Dilshan didn't do, but the overall result would still be the same, because wickets were tumbling at the other end, Pakistan were the better team on the day and our attack was just too good, and most of it had to do with them being 5-6 down for a nothing score... Amir's wicket was just one wicket... and Razzaq was the main destoryed of Srilanka... while Amir actually let go of the pressure that was created in the beginning by conceding 17 off his last over

What is your beef with Amir?? - Do you really understand fast bowling?? - Are you Skindarbath or M Waseem in disguise?? - These two guys were after Amir like there is no tomorrow :

 

[waleed88]

Conceding 17 runs off the last 19 balls he bowled is hardly "getting the treatment" in a game where Pakistan conceded at well over 6-an over, by the way.

He only conceded four boundaries in that particular match, so there's no real scope for claims of him "getting the treatment". You just sound bitter, if anything.

Conveniently hobbled off right when he was needed, when he felt he was about to getting taken apart..

Unlike Wahab who atleast tried to motor through his overs

 

[waleed88]

If you ignore that game and just focus on lanka you'd still see how instrumental he was when it came to his team reaching the final, no one can really play down his importance and this is also vindicated by his man of the tournament award.

Usually teams who reach the final have more than one match winner, which is why Srilanka reached the final and has won it in 2014 despite Dilshan not being at the top of his game.. more so than Dilshan, Sanga and Mahela are their mainstay champions and revered figures... they were the big fish as far as I'm concerned..

 

[shaz619]

Usually teams who reach the final have more than one match winner, which is why Srilanka reached the final and has won it in 2014 despite Dilshan not being at the top of his game.. more so than Dilshan, Sanga and Mahela are their mainstay champions and revered figures... they were the big fish as far as I'm concerned..

Unfortunately when it came to Lanka's batting that rhetoric does not stand, once again post 95 specifically pointed out the importance of Dilshan to Lanka's batting in the 2009 World T20; if you subtract his runs from each game then they'd not even have a total which was about par on those pitches, he was the most instrumental player which helped them get to the final

 

[waleed88]

Honestly it's one thing having opinions but you have a pure hatred for the bowler.

I am not his ****** (unlike you who supports his local Karachi boys blindly), I want Pakistan to have the best players on the field on merit and perform competitively.

If Amir is not bowling well or not performing adequately then I have no problem whatsoever dropping him and replacing him with someone better. That can happen anytime now or the future.

However I have been following your posts for sometime and it's safe to say you are not just a hater but a vindictive one that has a habit of nitpicking everything on Amir from criticising him not getting swing to it getting wickets.

And when he does get wickets when it counts in a final you are nowhere to be seen or probable sulking in a coroner.

He performed when it mattered most against our arch rivals - be happy.

If we have better bowlers then he can be replaced. But reality is we don't because in 5 years we had to bring tried and tested failures like Mohammed Sami who never performs, especially crunch situations.

A performance for the ages, like I've said before regarding his performance in CT 2017, like I said as good as Wasim Akram's performance in 1992... but to say he does well in finals on the basis of '4 overs in 2009' is a ridiculous statement and has no merit whatsoever, specially considering his last over went for 17 runs in the final of t20 world cup 2009

 

[waleed88]

Unfortunately when it came to Lanka's batting that rhetoric does not stand, once again post 95 specifically pointed out the importance of Dilshan to Lanka's batting in the 2009 World T20; if you subtract his runs from each game then they'd not even have a total which was about par on those pitches, he was the most instrumental player which helped them get to the final

Dilshan has'nt won the World Cup for Srilanka in 2014, it was a team effort. Afridi was the man of the tournament in the first t20 world cup and he had no performance in the final... he wasn't even the danger man in his two games against India in that tournament... in both games that was Misbah ul Haq against India.. and he was the danger man

so your point is null and point, you are only trying to make Dilshan like a hero, just so that you can increase Amir's stature despite the fact that Razzaq brought you in that position NOT Mohammad Amir, which Amir actually undid with his last over... Your post is as ridiculous as it is biased towards Amir...

 

[waleed88]

What is your beef with Amir?? - Do you really understand fast bowling?? - Are you Skindarbath or M Waseem in disguise?? - These two guys were after Amir like there is no tomorrow :

Just because I told them facts that Amir conceded 17 runs in the final over of his game of 2009 WC final he playe, and this theory that Amir is a 'big match player' apparently on a one off performance, where more than the skill it was the pressure of the chase that got to the batsmen...

 

[shaz619]

Dilshan has'nt won the World Cup for Srilanka in 2014, it was a team effort. Afridi was the man of the tournament in the first t20 world cup and he had no performance in the final... he wasn't even the danger man in his two games against India in that tournament... in both games that was Misbah ul Haq against India.. and he was the danger man

so your point is null and point, you are only trying to make Dilshan like a hero, just so that you can increase Amir's stature despite the fact that Razzaq brought you in that position NOT Mohammad Amir, which Amir actually undid with his last over... Your post is as ridiculous as it is biased towards Amir...

You are basically making hypothetical points when am discussing the 2009 tournament in itself, there is no bias in favour of Amir but your criticism towards him is not very objective in this regard. I have pointed out the importance of Dilshan to the Lankan side in 2009 with facts and figures which support my argument with regards to how vital it was to get him out early on in the final, Dilshan was not just crucial for lanka's ascension to the final in 2009 but was the leading run scorer in that tournament and won player of the series award....

 

[ManFan]

Amir is like HBK. Nobody outperforms him on the big stage.

 

[Muhammad10]

Conveniently hobbled off right when he was needed, when he felt he was about to getting taken apart..

Unlike Wahab who atleast tried to motor through his overs

You overrate your imaginary ability to read others' minds. I'm not interested in wasting my time on what is nonsensical speculation at best.

 

[GullyCricketFlop]

He delivered when early wickets were needed in the final.Should look to bowl like he did on Sunday.

 

[The_Odd_One]

A tournament final where Razzaq gets greats of the modern era Jayawardene and Sanath Jayasuria, and then gets another wicket of Jehan Mubarak...

Does Amir's wicket carry more weightage? No.. I don't think so..

Dilshan had scored more runs than both Jaya and Mahela combined in that tournament. So yeah, his wicket was more important.

 

[yasir]

Just because I told them facts that Amir conceded 17 runs in the final over of his game of 2009 WC final he playe, and this theory that Amir is a 'big match player' apparently on a one off performance, where more than the skill it was the pressure of the chase that got to the batsmen...

Your arguments has less data and more bias. In 2009 WC, you completely ignore the first over by Amir, that was the first time I saw Amir bowl(means I carefully watched him), my thought was a Pakistan is gifted with once in a generation bowler, I was more excited about him then just winning the final...Because we were winning that WC at the back of Afridi anyways...

He just did not got Dilshan out, but the way he got out was lot more impressive. Imagine a 17 year old, bowling in Lords in WC final, bowling to man of the tournament, he was given the plan to not pitch up anything, he bowled 5 bumpers are targeting rib to chest height, no width and at pace(140 clicks), its not an easy task by any means, that channel unsettle Dilshan, his wicket was like getting Kohli out, that set the tone for the match. It requires lot of mental strength, exceptional technique and skills to execute that over!!

If Amir does not win you on 18 June 2017, there is no way he can ever win you over. Frankly you come across somebody who understand little art of bowling, so there is nothing in that realm, Amir can impress you. In data you can always find something, if look hard enough or you will only look at data that suite your purpose...

I would not mind Amir's pedestrian performances in meaningless bi-literal series if we delivers like that at big stage, at the end in LOIs, only thing that matters is the winning tournaments, rest are just practice matches

 

[shaz619]

Well done Amir 2 time ICC Trophy Champion, he's doing really well for Essex on the FC circuit in England to ; Yorkshire are a top team, took 10 wickets against them and the fielders held on to their catches [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]

 

[TalhaSyed]

Well done Amir 2 time ICC Trophy Champion, he's doing really well for Essex on the FC circuit in England to ; Yorkshire are a top team, took 10 wickets against them and the fielders held on to their catches [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]

Yup Amir is doing well MashAllah and it's great to see him, and some of our other youngsters, playing domestic cricket.

The experience of playing in domestic cricket and in foreign conditions was extremely helpful for the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Inzi etc. and I am sure that our players will also benefit greatly InshAllah from the experience they gain by playing in foreign conditions.

 

[Bilal7]

Amir > Sachin.