Mohammad Amir's Test struggles outside England

[Statsman]

Mohammad Amir now averages 33.72. He has bowled a lot in English conditions!

A lot! So much so that 50% (42 out of 81) wickets have been taken in England at an average of 26.26. His numbers outside England are as follows:

Australia - 48.53
Sri Lanka - 43.50
UAE - 38.50
New Zealand - 36.14

At best these are ordinary stats for any bowler.

What must he do to improve these numbers?

To add, another young bowler by the name of Bhuvneshwar Kumar now averages 28.80 having less than 30 average in 3 out of 4 countries he has played (29.81 in India (graveyard for pace bowlers), 26.63 in England and 9.83 in WI) so it is not impossible.

 

[JibranAnsari]

He is not the same bowler he once was. He has been below average after his return.

When amir toured places like NZ and australia in 2009-10 he was only 17. He could reverse the ball then , look at him now. He is a mere shadow.

 

[jeetu]

Amir needs to improve his fitness and generate more pace. He's currently bowling bit wide of the stumps.

 

[JibranAnsari]

His numbers this year in england were poor. He averaged 42 in england this year.

 

[Zak_Fan]

For some, he is still the best fast bowler in Asia.

 

[Buffet]

Putting all series in Eng as one is not going to tell much here. In Eng, he did fine when pitch had lots of assistance during that fixing tainted series. Last tour of Eng he didn't do anything.

You need to look at series by series performance.

 

[Rafay Shafiq]

His numbers this year in england were poor. He averaged 42 in england this year.

Yes. Stats looking good due to 2010

 

[Indiafan]

Putting all series in Eng as one is not going to tell much here. In Eng, he did fine when pitch had lots of assistance during that fixing tainted series. Last tour of Eng he didn't do anything.

You need to look at series by series performance.

Season by season

2009 season - average 43.5
2009/10 season - average 41.9
2010 season - average 19.8
2016 season - average 42.4
2016/17 season - average 35.5

Averages over 35 before and after that Amazing English season which included 2 tests against Australia as well. Surprisingly poor and that season looks more and more like an aberration.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Bhuvneshwar is the real deal. Stats don't lie.

 

[Indiafan]

Season by season

2009 season - average 43.5
2009/10 season - average 41.9
2010 season - average 19.8
2016 season - average 42.4
2016/17 season - average 35.5

Averages over 35 before and after that Amazing English season which included 2 tests against Australia as well. Surprisingly poor and that season looks more and more like an aberration.

Actually, these stats were from before last 2 tests. So updated stats

2009 season - average 43.5
2009/10 season - average 41.9
2010 season - average 19.8
2016 season - average 42.4
2016/17 season - average 41.05

So he averages over 41 in every season apart from the 2009/10 English season

 

[street cricketer]

Comparison with Amir might deal a death knell to Bhuvi's fledgling test career.

We don't want the India Pakistan player comparison threads to backfire in case of bowlers, do we?

[MENTION=68690]Statsman[/MENTION]

 

[Statsman]

Comparison with Amir might deal a death knell to Bhuvi's fledgling test career.

We don't want the India Pakistan player comparison threads to backfire in case of bowlers, do we?

[MENTION=68690]Statsman[/MENTION]

Didn't want to take the risk. Although we don't have much to lose.

 

[Stark]

Seasons in Eng for Aamir

2009 season - average 43.5
2009/10 season - average 41.9
2010 season - average 19.8
2016 season - average 42.4
2016/17 season - average 41.05

So he averages over 41 in every season apart from the 2009/10

Quite a revelation these stats.

It is clear that there was just one season which was the exception for the branded messiah, and the hype from the jazbaatis makes it sound as if things have been absolutely the opposite.

 

[Varun]

You don't need to have an exhaustive debate to realize that this guy is a one-series wonder. A poor man's James Anderson if you go by stats, and I don't think he has ever averaged under 30 in his test career for any reasonable period of time.

So much for being the 'Crown Prince of Fast Bowling'.

 

[Indiafan]

Quite a revelation these stats.

It is clear that there was just one season which was the exception for the branded messiah, and the hype from the jazbaatis makes it sound as if things have been absolutely the opposite.

In another thread, a few fans were saying Amir struggles because he does not have someone like Asif on the other end. Stats on that

In 2009/10 season in 5 matches in NZ and Aus with Asif and Gul supporting him, Amir averaged 41.9

In 2016/17 season in 5 matches in NZ and Aus without Asif and Gul, Amir averages 42.3

The numbers are staggeringly alike. So either its a huge co-incidence or he is capable only of these averages on Australian wickets and it has nothing to do with match fitness, dropped catches, who is supporting him and him being unlukcy

 

[Stark]

In another thread, a few fans were saying Amir struggles because he does not have someone like Asif on the other end.

Yeah. That was really a fun read
The amount and types of excuses thrown in to support aamir right after the spot fixing saga have been quite weird and hilarious. Really did chuckled when the theories like the hypothetical avg/need a partner/not enough (practice) games were floated.

And had he been amongst the wickets, there would have been quotes of “fish will never forget how to swim.." strewn around in bulk.

Stats on that

In 2009/10 season in 5 matches in NZ and Aus with Asif and Gul supporting him, Amir averaged 41.9

In 2016/17 season in 5 matches in NZ and Aus without Asif and Gul, Amir averages 42.3

The numbers are staggeringly alike.

Good job again presenting the numbers to debunk the 'need a partner to hunt' excuse.

 

[sl-fan-of-pak]

He's perfect for ODIs and T20s, must admit hes not good enough for tests

 

[AlphaFighter]

He will eventually approach Sami's bowling stats.

 

[saeedhk]

A mediocre bowler. The fact that a bowler like Wahab outbowled him by huge margin speaks volumes of the mediocrity of this so-called 'legend'. Amir has never been the the same bowler after his return; he has failed massively. Currently, he is in the same category as Bhatti, Cheema and co.

 

[AlphaFighter]

A mediocre bowler. The fact that a bowler like Wahab outbowled him by huge margin speaks volumes of the mediocrity of this so-called 'legend'. Amir has never been the the same bowler after his return; he has failed massively. Currently, he is in the same category as Bhatti, Cheema and co.

Same bowler? He is the same bowler as before. He just enjoyed excellent bowling conditions in England in 2010, a tour in which even Wahab got a 5 wicket haul on his test debut. His bowling average above 40 in all the series he played prior to that England tour in 2010 speaks volumes about his so called quality.

 

[saeedhk]

Same bowler? He is the same bowler as before. He just enjoyed excellent bowling conditions in England in 2010, a tour in which even Wahab got a 5 wicket haul on his test debut. His bowling average above 40 in all the series he played prior to that England tour in 2010 speaks volumes about his so called quality.

He could swing the ball in favorable conditions but now, he can't. Remember New Zealand tests matches recently? Amir's regression has been shocking! On merit, he should be booted out of the team. A truly pathetic bowler.

 

[AlphaFighter]

He could swing the ball in favorable conditions but now, he can't. Remember New Zealand tests matches recently? Amir's regression has been shocking! On merit, he should be booted out of the team. A truly pathetic bowler.

Even RP Singh was a legend in favorable conditions in England. Nothing to write home about.

 

[Mainul]

He should be dropped.He should go back in FC cricket,perform,regain his form and only then come back.Otherwise,we will see same mediocre average Aamer again and again.

 

[Boom boom legend]

Stats can be misleading. First couple of seasons he was only around 17 years old and 2016/17 resumed after a 5 year ban. In between was the year he was blossoming into one of the world's best.

Best fast bowler in asia, no doubt about it.

I am sure deep down the India fans criticising him would bite your hand off if you offered them the opportunity to swap him for any of their fast bowlers.

 

[Midwinter13992]

Overrated bowler..
His batting is better than his batting

 

[Haz95]

Another hypothetical bowler with very little feats to show for. Decent ODI bowler.

 

[Ab Fan]

Amir has more skill set than Bhubaneswar but unfortunately he has failed to perform up to the mark and that has been reflecting in his avg.

He has an AVG of 33 which makes him put in league which is quite a distance away from being categorised as world class.

 

[Hawkeye]

Bhuvi, Ishant and Junaid >>> Amir.

Stats prove it!

 

[Pete Rose]

Good in odis, not so great in tests. Story of comeback so far.

 

[Buffet]

Bhuvi, Ishant and Junaid >>> Amir.

Stats prove it!

What is Ishant's average?

 

[Bilal7]

He'll click soon enough and when he does, there will be a witch-hunt on this forum for people who pretend to be his lifelong fans and supporters when he's setting the world alight but then drop him like a hot coal when he struggles.

Amir is a great bowler and his numbers will reflect that soon enough, in all three formats. Only 24 years of age right now.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

He has good potential and I think he will need some more time to come to grips to the return to international cricket. I will not write him off yet.

 

[waleed88]

Mohammad Amir now averages 33.72. He has bowled a lot in English conditions!

A lot! So much so that 50% (42 out of 81) wickets have been taken in England at an average of 26.26. His numbers outside England are as follows:

Australia - 48.53
Sri Lanka - 43.50
UAE - 38.50
New Zealand - 36.14

At best these are ordinary stats for any bowler.

What must he do to improve these numbers?

To add, another young bowler by the name of Bhuvneshwar Kumar now averages 28.80 having less than 30 average in 3 out of 4 countries he has played (29.81 in India (graveyard for pace bowlers), 26.63 in England and 9.83 in WI) so it is not impossible.

Give him some time at the highest level, he is ''Wasim Akram in the making"

"He had about 20 dropped catches"

"He doesn't have a decent partner at the other end"

"to comeback after 5 years, and still be the best bowler of your side, swinging it the way he did, others could never come back like that "

"his two deliveries to Warner and Smith were magical"

"He swings its both ways at 90mph"

"His action is the most biomechanically perfect action I have seen in 20 something years"

and last but not least, when all else fails

"he's bowled better than his stats suggest"

Amir's fans and their opinions, all based on facts, figures and appearance.. no substance in any of these claims..

Nothing more than partisan babble

 

[Abdullah]

I think it is starting to turn for him.

I expect good things in the Windies and the CT.

It takes time to get upto full pelt after 5 years out.

Needs to get the reverse going- he could do it from around the wicket to the right hander when he was 17 ***

 

[Hawkeye]

What is Ishant's average?

No idea, but you probably missed what I was trying to say.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Still a good ODI player, but hasn't got what it takes to succeed in Test matches.

 

[Zahid87]

Amir came as raw potential. The problem is that because of his years out of the team, we all have this idea of the kind of bowler he could have become, based on the way he entered the scene.

You have to remember he hasn't bowled for 5 years, where the game has changed, and what you compare him to is based on the memories of one series. Give him time, and allow him to develop. He has all the ability to still become a fine bowler for Pakistan.

 

[Statsman]

Amir came as raw potential. The problem is that because of his years out of the team, we all have this idea of the kind of bowler he could have become, based on the way he entered the scene.

You have to remember he hasn't bowled for 5 years, where the game has changed, and what you compare him to is based on the memories of one series. Give him time, and allow him to develop. He has all the ability to still become a fine bowler for Pakistan.

Game hasn't changed much in 5 years in tests. Probably the only change is the degradation of batting talent - from KPs and Punters to Khawajas and Moeen Alis. Rather it has changed in ODIs for the betterment of batsmen and there Amir is still top class.

 

[IAJ]

Will only become better IA, being out for 5 years is no joke. Stay positive.

 

[JibranAnsari]

In his first 8 tests after comeback , 13 catches were dropped off his bowling. 13!!!

He had taken 25 wickets in those 8 matches @ 37 apiece , if 10 of them catches were taken he would have averaged 26.85 which is pretty. Amir hasnt been good but dropped catches havent helped him much.

He averages 41 after his return , I dont know if any catches were dropped on his bowling in austrlia but if we add 10 wickets to his total after his return his average would be 31 which would have been good for a guy making his return after 6 years.

He needs to improve a lot though , hopefully fielders will start taking catches on his deliveries.

 

[Statsman]

In his first 8 tests after comeback , 13 catches were dropped off his bowling. 13!!!

He had taken 25 wickets in those 8 matches @ 37 apiece , if 10 of them catches were taken he would have averaged 26.85 which is pretty. Amir hasnt been good but dropped catches havent helped him much.

He averages 41 after his return , I dont know if any catches were dropped on his bowling in austrlia but if we add 10 wickets to his total after his return his average would be 31 which would have been good for a guy making his return after 6 years.

He needs to improve a lot though , hopefully fielders will start taking catches on his deliveries.

If we start considering dropped catches/ missed edges/ marginal LBW calls/ wickets that could have been taken with better field placement/ better bowling partners etc. every bowler will average a few notches less.

 

[Zahid87]

Game hasn't changed much in 5 years in tests. Probably the only change is the degradation of batting talent - from KPs and Punters to Khawajas and Moeen Alis. Rather it has changed in ODIs for the betterment of batsmen and there Amir is still top class.

It has changed. Batsmen are now show even more 'intent'. Onus is there to play a little more agressively, and try and dominate the game.

Its a small factor, but these things add up.

Amir himself would have regressed in the 5 years is the main point. 5 years of no bowling is a lot of catching up to do. He needs to play competitive cricket, and get used to just playing the game for a while.

And again, he cannot be compared to whatever people may look back upon with rose tinted spectacles in 2009. Nothing is quite like seeing someone burst onto the scene with potential, you have no idea as to what they can become, and believe that the sky is the limit.

The reality is no one ever really lives up to those lofty expectations. And Amir has not had the normal career trajectory where those expectations are naturally toned down over time.

Let him bowl for a while, and find himself. Then we can see where things stand. Too early to write him off now, no matter how much some people want to.

 

[Statsman]

[MENTION=27435]Zahid87[/MENTION] - Writing him off will be unfair at the moment but he still needs to prove himself outside England in the coming tours. I believe if he continues to average around 35-45 Pakistan will be better off trying a new more deserving bowler to handle the fresh cherry and allow Amir to play some first class games to rediscovere his form.

 

[Zahid87]

[MENTION=27435]Zahid87[/MENTION] - Writing him off will be unfair at the moment but he still needs to prove himself outside England in the coming tours. I believe if he continues to average around 35-45 Pakistan will be better off trying a new more deserving bowler to handle the fresh cherry and allow Amir to play some first class games to rediscovere his form.

The problem that Pakistan, and a few other countries have tbh, is that first class games are not indicative of how a player will handle international cricket.

Thats why, unlike in countries like Australia and England, where young players look to shield/county cricket to improve their game, young Pakistani players are identified and then fast tracked into the international set up, where they can learn on the job.

It is not ideal, but its the reality of the situation. And it kind of shows you how tough it must be for Amir to try and regain his bowling rhythm and confidence (both of which have stagnated), whilst playing against players who will punish any mistake.

And again, it will take him time to get back to the sort of level he was at previously, nevermind surpass that. More than the average, its the way he has bowled which is more important. And on occasions, he has shown glimpses that he is worth perservering with.

If Pakistan had other bowlers who were capable of one day swinging it both ways at 90mph, then we would play them. Unfortuantely, we dont. Amir is still the best prospect we have.

 

[vandokkum]

Soon there will be a new standard on how to judge bowlers. How many times they beat the edge with the new ball and how "unlucky" they are.

 

[JibranAnsari]

If we start considering dropped catches/ missed edges/ marginal LBW calls/ wickets that could have been taken with better field placement/ better bowling partners etc. every bowler will average a few notches less.

He missed the edges plenty of times but you should expect easy catches to be taken 10 of of 8 times at least , so i am just giving him the probability benefit here. He has bowled better than his figures suggest after his comeback. 13 Catches dropped of him in his first 8 matches where he took only 25 wickets , he could have had at least 10 wickets more , had he been playing for a better catching team.

He was poor most of the times since his comeback but not as bad as his figures show.

 

[sajeebmcj]

He missed the edges plenty of times but you should expect easy catches to be taken 10 of of 8 times at least , so i am just giving him the probability benefit here. He has bowled better than his figures suggest after his comeback. 13 Catches dropped of him in his first 8 matches where he took only 25 wickets , he could have had at least 10 wickets more , had he been playing for a better catching team.

He was poor most of the times since his comeback but not as bad as his figures show.

but it is a part of game. and not in his bowling, it iis the case for all the bowlers. in england pak series england missed more chance than pakistan. in recent india - england series at least 40 catches have been dropped. in newzeland- pak series newzeland fielders also missed some catches.
very recent newzeland england series, bangkadeshi fileder missed more than 10 catches. in 2 nd test three- four catches have been drooped of only taskin's bowling.
in fourth odi pakmissed 4-5 catches and australia also missed 5 catches.
i am not sure in 2nd or third odi australia also missed 4-5 catches.
then why it will be applicable only for amir?
it is a normal matter.
counting drop catches of amir's bowling and show others is a shameful behavior for amir fan.