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Mohammad Hafeez as a finisher?

Mian

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There are not many hitters in our batting line up and hafeez is being under utilized in top order he is a good hitter of the ball and should be utilized in lower middle down the order. Sarfraz himself should move up the order he is better at strike rotation where hafeez struggle and we need someone in the middle who can rotate the strike.
 
I hav been saying this for years, Hafeez must play down the order and Sarfraz at 4 which sorts out 2 problems.
 
Hafeez's 34-ball 50 is the second fastest 50 in the ICC global finals after Adam Gilchrist's 33b fifty vs Pak at Lord's in 1999.
 
His ego won't allow it

What he do today is great, hopefully we win and Professor and Malik can retire
 
He is going to give us 10 good overs as well so he has to play as an allrounder batting at 6.
 
Should be tried as a hitter for rest of his career.
 
Fans have been saying this forever. Hopefully it gets thru to management now
 
Hafeez! The lower order finisher!

I've been saying this for a while and people make fun of it but if used at 6, Haffez could be the next best finisher we'll need he is best when hitting the ball.
 
Mohammad Hafeez can be the #5/#6 Pakistan is looking for

I always felt that Mohammad Hafeez can be very good at lower middle order. As an opener or top middle order he has to think a lot about how he should play for so many overs. Too much clutter in his head. But at lower middle order he does not need to think much as he would not have many oves left and so he has to hit out. And he is pretty good and intelligent hitter. Today finally he come in at #5 and was awesome. He can be huge upgrade at lower middle order position than others Pakistan have tried so far.
 
Where as Sarfaraz is probably more consistent I feel Hafeez scores much more freely and is better on the eye. I am happy to see Sarfaraz come at 6 or 7 unless circumstances during the match demand for him to bat higher.
 
pakistani team should look forward now, before 2019 dont need hafeez, malik, azhar dead weights in the team

but after today's game hard to say they will be dropped

and its not good in the long run
 
Sarfraz should move to 4, both Malik and Hafeez should move down. In ideal world both shouldn't be in the team but we have to work with them until we can find a better replacement.
 
I think Sarfraz should play at 4th... Sahibzada Farhan should debut at 6th
 
Hafeez can play at number 6. But Shoaib Malik should retire. Malik has always played dirty role in critical matches today he got out cheaply leaving his team t a critical juncture. He brings nothing to the team.
 
I have wanted him to bat down the order for a long time, this would be my lineup for next tour:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Fakhar Zaman
3. Babar Azam
4. Malik/Haris Sohail
5. Sarfaraz
6. Hafeez
7. Fahim Ashraf/Imad Wasim
8. Shadab Khan
9. Amir
10. Hassan Ali
11. Junaid Khan/Rumman Raees
 
Actually malik and hafeez should retire at this point.. its a great stage to go on a high..
 
His time is up. He's earned a life for himself but he's not a long term solution and defintley not a number 4. Unless he reinvents himself and becomes a hard hitting number 6 he has no place on the bus to WC 19.
 
I think many here have said he is good hitter should bat down the order as he is wasted when the ball is moving around as opener and one down.
 
Should retire.

BUT if he's going to play it has to be at #6. This way he doesn't have time to waste and goes about playing his shots.
 
People on here have been calling for this for ages and once it did happen - look at the result. Hafeez was incredible yesterday and people aren't praising him enough.

Should keep him in the team because we need a batting allrounder that can bowl when one of the main bowlers is getting a beating. Until we find someone who can do that job better, he should stay. But should always come in at 6.
 
One swallow does not make a summer. He's mediocre and will remain so. We need to move on. He's leeched enough years.
 
Has Mohammad Hafeez finally found his ideal position in the odi team?

He should bat the position where he doesn't get the illusion that he can waste as many balls as possible , he played really well yesterday and I wont mind if the team management uses him down the order to accelerate the innings. What do you guys suggest?:afridi
 
He is the answer of our worries at number 6. He is not a slogger but could be a brilliant striker just like Michael Hussey.
 
He has cemented his place for next 4 years.
 
Infact he should come one position further down. No. 7 is what is best for him and if he can tighten his bowling further with this new action then that will serve Pakistan quite well actually.
 
I am confused,whether good performance by Hafeez with the bat in the final will be good for Pakistan.I personally wanted a new young player to replace this 37 year old veteran.
 
he batted well in one game. unfortunately for us we play sri lanka next....so that means he will be around when we get to south africa.
 
Loved the classical yet fearless batting by Hafeez. That being said, the platform was laid for him and the pitch was very flat. Won't always be that easy.

He's 36, does he feel he has one more World Cup in him?
 
His ideal position is out of the team in the comfort of his home.
 
alwasy thought this was his best place but then he is 37, he needs to go, given fahim is coming of age and hussain talat on wings and shadab's batting the hidden treasure....we need youngsters
 
Loved the classical yet fearless batting by Hafeez. That being said, the platform was laid for him and the pitch was very flat. Won't always be that easy.

He's 36, does he feel he has one more World Cup in him?

He's Pakistani, he probably won't retire unless forced out so now is the right time.
 
No, not yet.

He was an opener.
Then came at 3.
Then at 4.
Yesterday at 5.

By the 2019 WC(He's not going anywhere, until it), he should be batting at 8

This should be the line up

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Imad
Fahim/ Shadab
Hafeez
Amir
Hasan
Junaid
 
I am confused,whether good performance by Hafeez with the bat in the final will be good for Pakistan.I personally wanted a new young player to replace this 37 year old veteran.

This. I am not sure carrying a 37 year old (who's real age I know for a fact is 39) is planning ahead.
 
It was a very good innings - surprised me cause always thought he would bottle it on big occasions.

Probably has 1 year left.
 
Hafeez is close to having outlived is utility unless he can transform himself. If there are 20+ overs left there is no reason why he should be batting above Malik and Sarfraz. That being said, he is still a better batting option than Imad or Shadab at number 6.

The ideal position for Hafeez is where he has a free license and doesn't have to face outswingers. As an opener it worked for him until bowlers started bowling outswingers. His strike rotation is way too poor for him to be a decent middle order batsman. It could work for him as a late middle order batsman however because he is the only one in that middle order (apart from Babar) that can hit out fast bowlers. The field is also open at that so he can rotate the strike easily as well. The one thing he needs to stop trying is that attempted dink over fine leg that never worked yesterday. Why would you do that when you can hit a fast bowler straight down the ground for 6.
 
I always said that, Hafeez should bat at #6 and come to the crease as a finisher, when 10-15 overs remain. He is a very good hitter of the ball and is always in his shell when the innings start. Sad that his utility is coming in the twilight of his career.
 
so you expect Professor at the age of 37 to reinvent himself to be comparable to batsmen he was probably the most consistent finisher across all formats in his time ?

He doesn't have to change his game! It is his game that enables him to hit at will but he just doesn't know what to do when there are 30,40 overs to spare. He'll be at his best around 38th over.
 
Yes, if he bowls economically and bats aggressively...we want him here until the 2019 world cup...

For the fans, we cannot win a World Cup without a single senior player...

Shoaib Malik has just played one world cup where Pakistan lost in the group stages so we need this man just in case he can live up to the bowling expectations in the very first place.
 
Hafeez has gone from being one of my favorite players back in his heyday (was there ever such a thing?) to a player I'd never support personally. That has a lot to do with how his behavior has changed over the years. From being a decent player who always gave his best he has gone to being an utterly selfish one whose only aim is to cling on by any means possible. But my personal opinion notwithstanding, I still feel he can be useful to the team at 6 or 7 where he can play more freely and his technical deficiencies can be ignored (should compete with Imad for a spot, as the team can't afford to carry both of them). However, given how highly he rates himself I don't think he will be willing to accept that role. But it's about time that he is forced to either accept that or dropped for a youngster like Talat or Yamin.
 
There are not many hitters in our batting line up and hafeez is being under utilized in top order he is a good hitter of the ball and should be utilized in lower middle down the order. Sarfraz himself should move up the order he is better at strike rotation where hafeez struggle and we need someone in the middle who can rotate the strike.

Hafeez Showed what he can do in death overs in the CT2017 final.
 
He doesn't have to change his game! It is his game that enables him to hit at will but he just doesn't know what to do when there are 30,40 overs to spare. He'll be at his best around 38th over.

His ego wont allow it

Nor do i expect him to be mentally strong enough to drag us to win like say sarfraz did against Sri Lanka or like Abdul Razzaq used to in the past.

Either way we need to move on
 
Isn't it enough?

In olden days, when pro footballers used to earn living like normal upper middle class professional (in current context, like $100K+/year including bonus, instead of $100K+/week + bonus), there was a tendency for footballers to prolong career by changing position/role. So, striker becomes midfielder by early 30s (or wingers become wing backs), then by mid 30s to defender & I heard that few even stayed in roster for couple of years as 3rd goal-keeper. Thus, more or less, many of them remain active (& earning) till mid to late 40s.

This suggestion for MoHa is very much like that football story - Opener > No. 3 > No. 4 batting all-rounder > late order hitter ........> specialist spinner. Enough is enough - he is into his 40s, has won a world title, and had been instrumental in that title; it's time to end the career on high. Next ICC event is in 2019 & every team will use these 2 years to find/fix half of their squad - here we are discussing about the prospect of a player, in his 40s, who somehow had a great show coming at 240/3, against a substandard attack, on their bad day.
 
Isn't it enough?

In olden days, when pro footballers used to earn living like normal upper middle class professional (in current context, like $100K+/year including bonus, instead of $100K+/week + bonus), there was a tendency for footballers to prolong career by changing position/role. So, striker becomes midfielder by early 30s (or wingers become wing backs), then by mid 30s to defender & I heard that few even stayed in roster for couple of years as 3rd goal-keeper. Thus, more or less, many of them remain active (& earning) till mid to late 40s.

This suggestion for MoHa is very much like that football story - Opener > No. 3 > No. 4 batting all-rounder > late order hitter ........> specialist spinner. Enough is enough - he is into his 40s, has won a world title, and had been instrumental in that title; it's time to end the career on high. Next ICC event is in 2019 & every team will use these 2 years to find/fix half of their squad - here we are discussing about the prospect of a player, in his 40s, who somehow had a great show coming at 240/3, against a substandard attack, on their bad day.

This pretty much sums up everything that is required. Hafeez did have the ability to do what he did in the CT final for some time now. However it was all wasted by playing him in the top 3. He should have been made a finisher right after the retirement of Afridi and this innings should have been the ideal farewell gift from him. Today's innings was against a "substandard attack on their bad day" and he may not be able to do it again. Hafeez is way past his prime and with Faheem coming in and others waiting in the ranks, Hafeez is never gonna play as a finisher again and since Haris is knocking at the doors, he might eventually lose out on his place in the team.

Nevertheless, the professor did contribute in the biggest match for his team since 92. He should retire in peace now.
 
He can be a brilliant finisher and i always believe that he can de deadly in the last 12 to 15 overs. As someone said Sarfaraz should bat higher at 4. Malik should come at 5 and hafeez at 6.
 
His ego wont allow it

Nor do i expect him to be mentally strong enough to drag us to win like say sarfraz did against Sri Lanka or like Abdul Razzaq used to in the past.

Either way we need to move on

No one can match that class of Abdul Razzaq!! That game is among top 5 ODIs ever by ICC.
 
I think people are overrating Hafeez lower order a bit, and underrating his contribution with the bat overall. Ever since he came back in 2009 he has been one of our best bats in ODIs even at top order. Yes people might find that strange, but just compare the numbers, averaged high 30s, just under 40 for most of that period. Even now, he's our second ranked batsman. For a long time he actually used to be our second best batsman despite the hate. People overrate Malik, he's been doing well in recent past, but Hafeez has been performing against the same teams too, just Malik's been doing a bit better except CT.

The reason why I wanted Hafeez to bat up the order was simply so we could bat better talent down the order. Batting up the order is difficult. Hafeez can't do it as much now, his reflexes are gone, too scratchy. He has always been able to accelerate when he played himself in, this isn't new. And given the times he came in at the CT, again you'd expect him to be able to accelerate like that too, its not that surprising.

The whole point of Hafeez IMO was he provided 10 overs, and didn't sacrifice batting strength. I felt he should have batted whatever position that would allow youngsters to play at their ideal positions. We had a lot of middle order talent e.g. Umar Akmal, Maqsood etc. and didn't make sense dropping them to accommodate Hafeez.

This has changed somewhat over recent years with Sharjeel (guess he's gone now), Zaman, Babar coming in, guys who can play top order. Hafeez isn't competing with the likes of Shehzad, Azhar, Kamran Akmal etc. at the top of the order anymore. While look in the middle order, we have little talent coming through there now, with umar akmal and Maqsood falling off. In fact our middle/late order now relies on the experienced players in Sarfraz and Malik.

Hafeez's strength was the fact he was one of our best batsmen and provided 10 overs (to rival our best bowlers). That made him really valuable. This is no longer the case, he's more a less effective part timer compared to before, and distinctly down the list in terms of our best batsmen in the team (he's after Babar, Zaman, Sarfraz, arguably Malik, he could be behind Haris when he comes back too). His extra bowling, and his ok batting still perhaps give some use, but he's definitely less of an asset than before and seems a player on the wane. He would not make it as a bowler alone, or maybe even a batsman, while before he definitely could as either, there lay his strength.

I'm not sure about whether Hafeez should stay. I mean really most would have hoped Umar Akmal would have excelled in the middle order by now. Our middle/late order talent just hasn't met their potential, it's sad. And yet I could tell you a player who could walk into the middle/late order right now to replace Hafeez (and Malik) atm. Even the guys who you could argue such as Usman Salluhuddin, Fawad Alam etc have less striking ability and will struggle to keep the run rate up. Not to mention our allrounder at 7 in Imad, Imad's place in the team is already looking shaking too, he might need to be replaced soon.

My opinion is to keep Hafeez at 6 for now. Sarfraz definitely should be batting up the order to make more of an impact, I'd have Sarfraz at 4. Try out younger players in T20, and maybe we can identify a talent to eventually take over that place. Both Hafeez and Malik's windows aren't going to last long, their time's nearly up, but I don't see the harm in them being in the team as long as they're performing until we identify younger talent to replace them.
 
I think people are overrating Hafeez lower order a bit, and underrating his contribution with the bat overall. Ever since he came back in 2009 he has been one of our best bats in ODIs even at top order. Yes people might find that strange, but just compare the numbers, averaged high 30s, just under 40 for most of that period. Even now, he's our second ranked batsman. For a long time he actually used to be our second best batsman despite the hate. People overrate Malik, he's been doing well in recent past, but Hafeez has been performing against the same teams too, just Malik's been doing a bit better except CT.

The reason why I wanted Hafeez to bat up the order was simply so we could bat better talent down the order. Batting up the order is difficult. Hafeez can't do it as much now, his reflexes are gone, too scratchy. He has always been able to accelerate when he played himself in, this isn't new. And given the times he came in at the CT, again you'd expect him to be able to accelerate like that too, its not that surprising.

The whole point of Hafeez IMO was he provided 10 overs, and didn't sacrifice batting strength. I felt he should have batted whatever position that would allow youngsters to play at their ideal positions. We had a lot of middle order talent e.g. Umar Akmal, Maqsood etc. and didn't make sense dropping them to accommodate Hafeez.

This has changed somewhat over recent years with Sharjeel (guess he's gone now), Zaman, Babar coming in, guys who can play top order. Hafeez isn't competing with the likes of Shehzad, Azhar, Kamran Akmal etc. at the top of the order anymore. While look in the middle order, we have little talent coming through there now, with umar akmal and Maqsood falling off. In fact our middle/late order now relies on the experienced players in Sarfraz and Malik.

Hafeez's strength was the fact he was one of our best batsmen and provided 10 overs (to rival our best bowlers). That made him really valuable. This is no longer the case, he's more a less effective part timer compared to before, and distinctly down the list in terms of our best batsmen in the team (he's after Babar, Zaman, Sarfraz, arguably Malik, he could be behind Haris when he comes back too). His extra bowling, and his ok batting still perhaps give some use, but he's definitely less of an asset than before and seems a player on the wane. He would not make it as a bowler alone, or maybe even a batsman, while before he definitely could as either, there lay his strength.

I'm not sure about whether Hafeez should stay. I mean really most would have hoped Umar Akmal would have excelled in the middle order by now. Our middle/late order talent just hasn't met their potential, it's sad. And yet I could tell you a player who could walk into the middle/late order right now to replace Hafeez (and Malik) atm. Even the guys who you could argue such as Usman Salluhuddin, Fawad Alam etc have less striking ability and will struggle to keep the run rate up. Not to mention our allrounder at 7 in Imad, Imad's place in the team is already looking shaking too, he might need to be replaced soon.

My opinion is to keep Hafeez at 6 for now. Sarfraz definitely should be batting up the order to make more of an impact, I'd have Sarfraz at 4. Try out younger players in T20, and maybe we can identify a talent to eventually take over that place. Both Hafeez and Malik's windows aren't going to last long, their time's nearly up, but I don't see the harm in them being in the team as long as they're performing until we identify younger talent to replace them.

You have set up a catch 22 situation. We can't 'identify' new players unless we can play them.

The problem is not a shortage of candidates right now.

Shadab and Imad and Faheem and Haris, who can also turn his arm over, are like for like replacements for the two ageing uncles. Sharjeel will come in as an opener if he is cleared.

Which leaves us with the luxury of finding one more proper bat in domestics to fill their place, and possibly that of Azhar.

But we have to make use of the few ODI series that remain before the WC to nail down a contender.
 
Isn't it enough?

In olden days, when pro footballers used to earn living like normal upper middle class professional (in current context, like $100K+/year including bonus, instead of $100K+/week + bonus), there was a tendency for footballers to prolong career by changing position/role. So, striker becomes midfielder by early 30s (or wingers become wing backs), then by mid 30s to defender & I heard that few even stayed in roster for couple of years as 3rd goal-keeper. Thus, more or less, many of them remain active (& earning) till mid to late 40s.

This suggestion for MoHa is very much like that football story - Opener > No. 3 > No. 4 batting all-rounder > late order hitter ........> specialist spinner. Enough is enough - he is into his 40s, has won a world title, and had been instrumental in that title; it's time to end the career on high. Next ICC event is in 2019 & every team will use these 2 years to find/fix half of their squad - here we are discussing about the prospect of a player, in his 40s, who somehow had a great show coming at 240/3, against a substandard attack, on their bad day.

Statistically speaking they were the second best attack in the tournament up and until the final. And what does
it mean to say they had a bad day? They ran into a young opener enjoying a purple patch and his share of luck. Bhuvi bowled as well as he has, which was good but not as good as Junaid, Cricinfo XI notwithstanding, Bumrah took a wicket sort of, and Ashwin was no worse 'on the day' than he had been all tournament. Credit where credit is due.
 
You have set up a catch 22 situation. We can't 'identify' new players unless we can play them.

The problem is not a shortage of candidates right now.

Shadab and Imad and Faheem and Haris, who can also turn his arm over, are like for like replacements for the two ageing uncles. Sharjeel will come in as an opener if he is cleared.

Which leaves us with the luxury of finding one more proper bat in domestics to fill their place, and possibly that of Azhar.

But we have to make use of the few ODI series that remain before the WC to nail down a contender.

you are right, but what I would do is play them in T20s. Given that we're trying to find replacements in the lower/mid order, those batsmen should excel at T20s too anyway.

Shadab, Imad, Faheem, their batting isn't good enough for a no.6/no.5. I held some hope out for Imad, but watching last match the difference was too clear between proper batsmen and Imad. Imad's good for some late order hitting sometimes, but I don't see him more than a no.7 unless he seriously improves. Shadab is our specialist spinner will be batting 8 most of the time, only 7 if Imad is dropped for a pacer.

Haris Sohail is the only one who seems viable. And even him, not sure he's necessarily suited to middle/late order either, he looks more suited for 3/4, I think he'd even have the ability to open if needed, but he seems more of a top order player.
 
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I struggle with Hafeez. He is quite a likeable guy and always comes across as someone who understands the game. When he's on form, his batting is a delight to watch, and his bowling is great as it builds up a lot of pressure.

But...I don't think he can do it for us on difficult wickets. We've seen it. So many times. Australia, South Africa, New Zealand. He gets bogged down, and can't time the ball. We've also seen him struggle against high class fast bowling so many times.

I believe his bowling has kept him in the ODI side for far longer then its been worth. When he bowls well, he creates pressure and opportunities for others, but I don't believe since his action change he has done this consistently. I also think Imad Wasim can do a similar job.

Given his age and his position (#4), I think he should move on. We need a champion batsman at #4, and Haris Sohail has shown glimpses of it at that position.

I want a team that can win the 2019 World Cup. I do not see Hafeez ever being consistent enough to warrant a place in an all dominating side. Remember, the CT was 5 matches, and he had at best 2 good matches.
 
you are right, but what I would do is play them in T20s. Given that we're trying to find replacements in the lower/mid order, those batsmen should excel at T20s too anyway.

Shadab, Imad, Faheem, their batting isn't good enough for a no.6/no.5. I held some hope out for Imad, but watching last match the difference was too clear between proper batsmen and Imad. Imad's good for some late order hitting sometimes, but I don't see him more than a no.7 unless he seriously improves. Shadab is our specialist spinner will be batting 8 most of the time, only 7 if Imad is dropped for a pacer.

Haris Sohail is the only one who seems viable. And even him, not sure he's necessarily suited to middle/late order either, he looks more suited for 3/4, I think he'd even have the ability to open if needed, but he seems more of a top order player.

T20 and ODIs are different games. Need to take that seriously. We don't yet know if Shadab is good enough to bat at 6. I have seen plenty of signs that he is. Most people consider him an allrounder in the making. Hafeez and Malik are just loosing propositions. Malik has a decent run before the CT but continues to bottle it when it counts, and is therefore not someone we can carry into the WC. Hafeez is barely serviceable with bat and ball and is not getting better with age. Chances are he will be completely shot in two years and that is an absolutely silly risk to take with someone so mediocre. This was a tournament in which youth triumphed and in which it was confirmed for the umpteenth time that domestic performance is not meaningless. We should take that to heart and move forward.
 
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He's clearly better suited to lower order batting and to be more precise a finisher role. Conversely, he's going to be 38 by the time the World Cup arrives, with that being said, it may be sage to start grooming a new player... Not sure about potential replacements... Any ideas?
 
Statistically speaking they were the second best attack in the tournament up and until the final. And what does
it mean to say they had a bad day? They ran into a young opener enjoying a purple patch and his share of luck. Bhuvi bowled as well as he has, which was good but not as good as Junaid, Cricinfo XI notwithstanding, Bumrah took a wicket sort of, and Ashwin was no worse 'on the day' than he had been all tournament. Credit where credit is due.


Indian attack wasn't balanced for bowling first, which forced VK to bring part-timer in 45th over. Also, if you bring stats to measure an attack, then we'll have to go back to that discussion between us a year ago which tells PAK should pick Imran Khan Jr. over Wahab in an UAE Test. Here as well, statistically best Indian spinner was Jadhav.

In this tournament, most of the matches ended one sided, hence stats are not true reflection to represent bowling. Bumrah's stats are boasted for the 3 one sided matches against SA, PAK & BD - but, he bolted when it mattered- final & when defending 321. Apart from BK & Pandeya, it was a pathetic bowling display by IND - instead of MoHa/Imad, most other countries would have belted much more than 100 in last 12 overs or so after the platform was set. It looked great from MoHa because PAK isn't expected to finish such.
 
He's finished as an international cricket. Shouldn't be selected again. Hopefully he retires on a high.
 
Indian attack wasn't balanced for bowling first, which forced VK to bring part-timer in 45th over. Also, if you bring stats to measure an attack, then we'll have to go back to that discussion between us a year ago which tells PAK should pick Imran Khan Jr. over Wahab in an UAE Test. Here as well, statistically best Indian spinner was Jadhav.

In this tournament, most of the matches ended one sided, hence stats are not true reflection to represent bowling. Bumrah's stats are boasted for the 3 one sided matches against SA, PAK & BD - but, he bolted when it mattered- final & when defending 321. Apart from BK & Pandeya, it was a pathetic bowling display by IND - instead of MoHa/Imad, most other countries would have belted much more than 100 in last 12 overs or so after the platform was set. It looked great from MoHa because PAK isn't expected to finish such.

Maybe I should rephrase. In terms of their performance collectively, as a team, before the final India had done almost as well as Pakistan. Taken wickets quickly, cheaply, etc. Somewhat curiously, they had managed this with piece meal individual performances which did not reflect very well on any one bowler, apart from Bhuvi and to some extent Bumrah. So I would agree for instance if you had said they didn't have any star bowlers. But in that particular tournament their bowling attack was second best. And while it clearly didnt perform well enough in the final, I don't think this is because they were particularly poor on that day, ie worse than earlier in the tournament. Bumrah in fact got two wickets, sort of, except one was a no ball the other bails didnt come off, which was about par for course for him; Bhuvi was sharp without necessarily taking so many wickets, also par for course. Fakhar wasn't exactly going at them in an orthodox way though, 80% risky shots I think Kohli said and I am inclined to think he's at least in the ballpark. On another day that may not have come off, but this time it did.
 
Maybe I should rephrase. In terms of their performance collectively, as a team, before the final India had done almost as well as Pakistan. Taken wickets quickly, cheaply, etc. Somewhat curiously, they had managed this with piece meal individual performances which did not reflect very well on any one bowler, apart from Bhuvi and to some extent Bumrah. So I would agree for instance if you had said they didn't have any star bowlers. But in that particular tournament their bowling attack was second best. And while it clearly didnt perform well enough in the final, I don't think this is because they were particularly poor on that day, ie worse than earlier in the tournament. Bumrah in fact got two wickets, sort of, except one was a no ball the other bails didnt come off, which was about par for course for him; Bhuvi was sharp without necessarily taking so many wickets, also par for course. Fakhar wasn't exactly going at them in an orthodox way though, 80% risky shots I think Kohli said and I am inclined to think he's at least in the ballpark. On another day that may not have come off, but this time it did.

Had that nail came off, MoHa would have been back for half his score & probably PAK would have finished higher that 338, but for 7 or 8 down, which should be indicative.

Zaman's innings was perfect, apart from that no ball issue. Modern ODI demands such openers - the way he adjusted his fame in short time; if by some miracle ODI turns into 250 par level from current 325; still he'll do great. There is a fine line between slogger & flat track bully - one got a 114 in an ICC final, another got a 3 ball duck on same match.
 
Had that nail came off, MoHa would have been back for half his score & probably PAK would have finished higher that 338, but for 7 or 8 down, which should be indicative.

Zaman's innings was perfect, apart from that no ball issue. Modern ODI demands such openers - the way he adjusted his fame in short time; if by some miracle ODI turns into 250 par level from current 325; still he'll do great. There is a fine line between slogger & flat track bully - one got a 114 in an ICC final, another got a 3 ball duck on same match.

That India's attack was second best says something about how difficult this tournament was for bowlers. I'd usually not expect them to do better than Starc and Hazlewood, or Rabada, Tahir and Morkel. And perhaps the Aussies would have done better had they progressed. But the only attack that really looked good was Pakistan's. We kept three top teams to 200 + change and then wiped out India.

In fact, what pleased me no end is not only that we won but did so by rewriting the rulebook for ODIs, a rulebook that was in large part written by and for post-IPL India. For so long fans have been complaining that Pakistan were lagging behind the modern game, would never succeed unless they cultivated big hitters and super phaast bowlers. Unless you had a Starc in your quiver the game was up. Bowling was for sissies; the future looked like Jos Butler and Glenn Maxwell. But this team showed the world it can also look like Hassan Ali and that we could it our way.
 
Definitely. He is playing as a bowling all rounder anyways. Scores once in a blue moon that too with a poor strike rate
 
Hafeez should open - Fails.

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 3

Bats number 3 - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 4/5

Bats number 4/5 - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat as lower order hitter...

Bats number lower order - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 11 and play as off spinner..

Bats number 11 & off spinner - fails

-----

Moral of story if a player is not good enough in 1st place they should be tired out in every position to see if they will magically improve as a player :facepalm:
 
Hafeez should open - Fails.

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 3

Bats number 3 - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 4/5

Bats number 4/5 - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat as lower order hitter...

Bats number lower order - fails

Half of posters on PP - He should bat number 11 and play as off spinner..

Bats number 11 & off spinner - fails

-----

Moral of story if a player is not good enough in 1st place they should be tired out in every position to see if they will magically improve as a player :facepalm:

But he did not fail in the CT final :afridi unlike other legends who are the second coming of Viv :kohli
 
I am still not entirely convinced, he looks very weak against yorkers and is not a reliable hitter against pacers unless it is truly in his zone.
 
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Finisher :msd
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DIkAGX-puwM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Finisher :msd

Could have had a good career for Pakistan as a finisher. Unfortunately his ego made him bat in the top order.
 
Could have had a good career for Pakistan as a finisher. Unfortunately his ego made him bat in the top order.

You can't be more wrong than the 2 bold sections. Being finisher needs nerve, mental toughness, self-less attitude and above all capability ........

It was never, never ego - it was brain. He is among very few Pakistani across globe benefiting from 3/9 incidence. That allowed him piling up soft runs from top 3 on Asian grounds against substandard teams & his bowling (if you call so), kept him as all-rounder away. It was, deliberate & calculative move which stacked up the numbers. That 57* is fooling every one -

This is his entire career at 4, 5, 6 & 7
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...rt;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Take out that 57* (At 5), it'll be even more worthy looking - then let's discuss about finisher. And this is over all, not when chasing .....................
 
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