MS Dhoni does not have a single century outside Asia in any format

[The_Odd_One]

Just came across this interesting stat. Dhoni in over 179 games and 188 innings does not have a single century outside Asia.

I know he is a finisher in ODIs but several times, he came to bat in when there was plenty of time left to hit a century. However, it is absolutely mind boggling that a cricketer of his stature did not cross 100 even once outside Asia.

 

[Pollack]

How many half centuries? That would give more premises to draw some inference.

 

[The_Odd_One]

How many half centuries? That would give more premises to draw some inference.

This thread is about 100s outside Asia which is 0. There is no need to bring in how many 50s he scored. However, if you are interested in it, then it is 36 in 188 innings which is one in almost every 6th inning.

 

[Abdullah719]

Most innings by Asian batsmen (across all formats) who are yet to score a ton outside Asia:

 

[Abid Z]

This is an interesting stat. How many games has he played outside Asia ?

 

[Haroon786]

Most innings by Asian batsmen (across all formats) who are yet to score a ton outside Asia:

View attachment 72267

Surprisingly no Misbah there, not enough ODIs outside Asia ?

 

[The_Odd_One]

This is an interesting stat. How many games has he played outside Asia ?

179 games and 188 innings

 

[Abdullah719]

Surprisingly no Misbah there, not enough ODIs outside Asia ?

Across formats, so Misbah's Test hundreds in WI and England disqualify him from the list.

If you check the stat for only ODIs then Saleem Malik beats Dhoni - He has 112 innings outside Asia without a hundred, compared to Dhoni's 86. Misbah has 51.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Surprisingly no Misbah there, not enough ODIs outside Asia ?

It is tests + ODIs combined. Misbah scored a century in Lord's test.

 

[Haroon786]

Across formats, so Misbah's Test hundreds in WI and England disqualify him from the list.

If you check the stat for only ODIs then Saleem Malik beats Dhoni - He has 112 innings outside Asia without a hundred, compared to Dhoni's 86. Misbah has 51.

It is tests + ODIs combined. Misbah scored a century in Lord's test.

I should've read the thread title, apologies.

Interesting that Malik did reasonably well in terms of scoring away tons in Test matches but could not do so in regards to ODIs, may be he didn't manage to translate his game well enough to ODIs.

 

[Junaids]

Just came across this interesting stat. Dhoni in over 179 games and 188 innings does not have a single century outside Asia.

I know he is a finisher in ODIs but several times, he came to bat in when there was plenty of time left to hit a century. However, it is absolutely mind boggling that a cricketer of his stature did not cross 100 even once outside Asia.

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

Grass or no grass, he is an ODI ATG

 

[Sachin136]

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

In ODIs, Dhoni averages 41.25 at a SR of 83.24 in Australia, England, NZ, SA and WI. For comparison, Ponting averages 41.94 at a SR of 81.82 in those countries.

 

[Pakpak]

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

The guy is a proven match winner and an ATG. If scoring on flat tracks was so easier other keepers would be doing it easily.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

I'll take Dhoni's numbers with no centuries and they can take both Akmal's.

 

[Black Zero]

34 fifties with 36 not outs...while coming so late.. I would say excellent.

 

[world cup captain]

I'll take Dhoni's numbers with no centuries and they can take both Akmal's.

Quite sure there are three Akmals. Which Akmal are you planning on keeping? :adnan

 

[Shafi]

Who care!!! He is the best limited over captain I have ever seen. Won many ICC cup

 

[JaDed]

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

Inspiring so many small town players to take up cricket,putting Ranchi on the map of cricket in India,getting India all the ICC tournaments ,don't think the Indians have to care about "what someone outside Asia" thinks about Dhoni, but hey why don't you try asking an average Aussie about Barry Richards or Mike Procter compared to Dhoni would be nice to know the answers.

 

[JaDed]

He isn't a gifted player and yes he is due retirement and stayed wayy too long than expected in tests also he could had got atleast one ton had he promoted himself to 1 down.

 

[Drreddymd]

In ODIs, Dhoni averages 41.25 at a SR of 83.24 in Australia, England, NZ, SA and WI. For comparison, Ponting averages 41.94 at a SR of 81.82 in those countries.

Yeah tell me one innings he played that is outstanding? His average is padded by not outs. He is a tailender outside of asia

 

[Drreddymd]

But he has no stature outside Asia.

He's a complete nobody.

He's not even in the top twenty wicketkeeper batsmen of my lifetime. He might not even be in the top fifty.

It was notable - and funny - when Brendon McCullum scored his 302 versus India at Wellington three years ago that MS Dhoni was only the fourth best wicketkeeper-batsman on the field - behind McCullum, Watling and Latham.

He is idolized in India for lots of runs on grassless wickets without a slip cordon in Asia.

But he was really nothing special.

He is equivalent of sehwag the test batsman who is phenomenal in subcontinent, above average in aus and below average in eng, sa, nz. Atleast sehwag has few good innings in every country but this atg becomes a tailender outside of asia.

He is a dismal failure in icc tournaments as well. He gets so much hype because of indian team wins for which his fans attribute entire credit to him

For an atg player he was never in top 10 runscores in any of about 12 icc tournaments he has played. He is the worst player in icc tournaments for india

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I guess Dhoni is overrated, thanks for the stats

 

[msb314]

Most innings by Asian batsmen (across all formats) who are yet to score a ton outside Asia:

View attachment 72267

hahaha Rashid Latif averages 14 outside Asia with a HS of 39.

For someone who has widely considered to be on of our greatest ever WK - those are some very poor stats...

 

[Drreddymd]

I guess Dhoni is overrated, thanks for the stats

He is overrated to the moon where as he should be rated on the earth if he deserves any

 

[Drreddymd]

Pak fans are very harsh on sarfraz in tests. Atleast he is a fighter and takes the attack to the opposition where as dhoni doesnt even looks like a batsmen and averages friggin 19 after 3 series in aus even on playing on flattest wickets

 

[Statsman]

Funny how [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] so conviniently speaks for the "rest of the world outside Asia", for the entire Australia or England etc on different occasions. He's deluded to think that a world cup winning and test rank 1 captain has no stature outside Asia.

On topic - he has a lot of 50s which is good and he averages fine as well. Difficult to make centuries low in the batting order of a top ODI batting outfit. When the pitch is flat your top order wont leave enough balls for you to get a century and when the pitch is tough everyone including you will struggle.
Test matches is a different story all together where Dhoni was just an ordinary batsman. Wont be surprised if he was below average outside Asia. He has a very poor technique for the longer format and surprisingly very low levels of persistence and determination.

 

[Tusker]

Stat for Non-Asian Keepers (who will obviously be in the Top 20 Automatically) while batting on Flat as pancake Asian pitches

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=batting


So there are just 2 keepers who scored a 100 and they all did that against non-asian minnow teams (WI/Netherlands) . Only one against Pak

 

[Madplayer]

In ODIs, Dhoni averages 41.25 at a SR of 83.24 in Australia, England, NZ, SA and WI. For comparison, Ponting averages 41.94 at a SR of 81.82 in those countries.

If anyone needs an example of how statistics can be misleading, this is it.

 

[Madplayer]

Stat for Non-Asian Keepers (who will obviously be in the Top 20 Automatically) while batting on Flat as pancake Asian pitches

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=batting


So there are just 2 keepers who scored a 100 and they all did that against non-asian minnow teams (WI/Netherlands) . Only one against Pak

Dhoni is considered an ATG keeper batsman and ATG ODI player. ATGs should have a 100 or two to show in different conditions.

 

[Drreddymd]

If anyone needs an example of how statistics can be misleading, this is it.

Absolutely. Based on that according to his fans dhoni is a better player than ponting

 

[Drreddymd]

Dhoni is considered an ATG keeper batsman and ATG ODI player. ATGs should have a 100 or two to show in different conditions.

Atg should have atleast 1 or 2 great knocks let alone hundreds outside of his comfort zone

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Quite surprised, I thought a supposedly ATG player would have at least 1 century outside Asia. I am no MSD basher but guess he really is overrated

 

[street cricketer]

Dhoni was never a great test or T20 batsman.

He has mostly batted at no.6 in ODIs. A tad difficult to get centuries from there as a wicket keeper batsman.

 

[Pollack]

Not an atg odi player at all. A decent odi player.
The stat is not surprising. Even his fifties does not include many clutch innings outside Asia.
Not a Match Winner but a Match Saver.
He used to make sure one end remains held while the other batsman do the hard work of winning the match for you. These other batsman being yuvraj, raina sometimes top order batsman who is still batting around. There are countless instances where dhoni used to give up while chasing when his actual match winners get out and play a pointless not out innings.The only exception being it is a low scoring match in which case he still had capabilities to get India through.



He is atg Indian wicketkeeper batsman

 

[Drreddymd]

Dhoni was never a great test or T20 batsman.

He has mostly batted at no.6 in ODIs. A tad difficult to get centuries from there as a wicket keeper batsman.

There are so many chinks in his performances in odis also. His performances outside of asia is rubbish with not even one innings in which he stood out

 

[street cricketer]

There are so many chinks in his performances in odis also. His performances outside of asia is rubbish with not even one innings in which he stood out

Okay.

 

[Drreddymd]

Dhoni was never a great test or T20 batsman.

He has mostly batted at no.6 in ODIs. A tad difficult to get centuries from there as a wicket keeper batsman.

His performances in icc tournaments is also abysmal, shambolic in every sense.

If he has so Many chinks how can he be atg odi player

 

[Drreddymd]

He averages 25 in south africa, 36 in eng, his record against wi is a paltry 25 overall

He averages above 40 only against pak, nz, bangladesh. His average against australia is above 40 because of not outs

 

[Madplayer]

Atg should have atleast 1 or 2 great knocks let alone hundreds outside of his comfort zone

I Agree.

I would say his allround skills of captaincy+batting+ keeping makes him an ATG. Take one away and he isn't an ATG.

 

[shortbread]

So my question is, are these stats acceptable for a keeper batsman? I mean as a standalone batsman those stats dont look impressive, but isnt this guy technically an all-rounder.

If I remember correctly the Indian keepres prior to Dhoni were mostly walking wickets, as soon as one saw the likes of Mongia walk out you knew the tail has started!

I think most teams would exchange Dhoni for Umar Akmal!

 

[Drreddymd]

I Agree.

I would say his allround skills of captaincy+batting+ keeping makes him an ATG. Take one away and he isn't an ATG.

Sir how can anybody attribute everything to his captaincy if his performances are abysmal in the tournaments we have won

He is in a win win situation all The time because if the team wins without him doing zilch his captaincy is bigged up.
If he performs he is an all time great and if the team loses the team is poor, bowlers are rubbish

 

[soso_killer]

This is not surprising Dhoni was never an individual who could come in and up the tempo or win matches on his own. He usually relies on others to do the hard yards.
While some massively overrate him we must be careful of not underrating him too.
He's a good player but not a great one for me. Far too many holes.

 

[Drreddymd]

So my question is, are these stats acceptable for a keeper batsman? I mean as a standalone batsman those stats dont look impressive, but isnt this guy technically an all-rounder.

If I remember correctly the Indian keepres prior to Dhoni were mostly walking wickets, as soon as one saw the likes of Mongia walk out you knew the tail has started!

I think most teams would exchange Dhoni for Umar Akmal!

Then why the hype regarding him being an atg batsmen to the extent that dhoni is better than sachin, Ponting when the reality is far from it

 

[Drreddymd]

This is not surprising Dhoni was never an individual who could come in and up the tempo or win matches on his own. He usually relies on others to do the hard yards.
While some massively overrate him we must be careful of not underrating him too.
He's a good player but not a great one for me. Far too many holes.

The underrating is a response to his overhyping as an atg better than even sachin, abd, ponting

 

[Pollack]

This is not surprising Dhoni was never an individual who could come in and up the tempo or win matches on his own. He usually relies on others to do the hard yards.
While some massively overrate him we must be careful of not underrating him too.
He's a good player but not a great one for me. Far too many holes.

Exactly what I posted above.Glad someone else also thinks so. Whenever I discuss this with dhoni hypers they tend to ignore it or always bring forth the innings of world cup final to dismiss it.He is someone who relies on others which allows him to do his own thing without the added pressure of winning it for the team by upping the ante.

 

[street cricketer]

His performances in icc tournaments is also abysmal, shambolic in every sense.

If he has so Many chinks how can he be atg odi player

Lol I honestly don't know why you beat yourself daily so much over Dhoni buddy.

Kohli has an even inferior world cup record but if he retires today from ODIs, he will retire as an ATG batsman. I think the problem you have is you rate all ATG players at the same level. Dhoni, despite being an ATG, is a level below Viv, Sachin, Ponting in my books. Waqar wasn't at the same level as Wasim or McGrath in test cricket, doesn't mean he wasn't an ATG.

Anyway this is just my opinion. I consider AB, Kohli and Dhoni a level below Viv, SRT and Ponting in ODIs because of their mediocre performance at world cups. But all three of them are ATGs in my book nonetheless. You may rate anyone even below which is of course your prerogative.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Wasn't there a series in England 2011 where Dhoni didn't even get out even once? He does have decent averages in outside Asia countries.

In the quest to not over-rate Dhoni, let's not under-rate him too.

Stats can be used to prove Yuvi, Sehwag, Ashwin, etc, etc were nothing players too.

It can be used to prove SRT was an Asian bully in 90s in ODI.

It can be used to prove Anwar was useless as hell against quality bowlers in 90.

Dhoni was a gun finisher (not in ICC tournaments though). 2nd best finisher.

ATG ODI bat.

 

[Kaptan]

Give me a match winner who scores 40-50 and help his team win rather than a player who score hundreds after hundreds and still his team loses.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I was referring to the discussions here.

This topic is worth debating though. Didn't know Dhoni never had a century outside Asia.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Is that supposed to be a dig at Sachin?

What's the common trait amongst Dhoni fans and Dravid fans?

They big up their heroes by pulling down one of their own who just happens to be simply greater than them.

 

[soso_killer]

Exactly what I posted above.Glad someone else also thinks so. Whenever I discuss this with dhoni hypers they tend to ignore it or always bring forth the innings of world cup final to dismiss it.He is someone who relies on others which allows him to do his own thing without the added pressure of winning it for the team by upping the ante.

If one innings was enough to define a career then a guy like JP Dumminy would be a Test great.
Ended Australia's 20 year home dominance with a crispy knock of 166* from a precarious position.
Test cricket doesn't get tougher than winning in Australia just like it is tough to win a world cup.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

For a 50 to be match winning ,groundwork has to be done by someone else. If that someone else is followed by morons,then match will be lost.

 

[Tusker]

Dhoni is considered an ATG keeper batsman and ATG ODI player. ATGs should have a 100 or two to show in different conditions.

So per your requirement Only Jos Butler and ABD are ATG ODI Keeper Batsmen ? Even the most blind Dhoni hater will not take those 2 above MSD in a crunch WC Knock out match.

BTW just for giggles ... add captaincy filter to that stat I posted and see what happens

 

[DRsohail]

Wasn't there a series in England 2011 where Dhoni didn't even get out even once? He does have decent averages in outside Asia countries.

In the quest to not over-rate Dhoni, let's not under-rate him too.

Stats can be used to prove Yuvi, Sehwag, Ashwin, etc, etc were nothing players too.

It can be used to prove SRT was an Asian bully in 90s in ODI.

It can be used to prove Anwar was useless as hell against quality bowlers in 90.

Dhoni was a gun finisher (not in ICC tournaments though). 2nd best finisher.

ATG ODI bat.

i will take his 91 in wc final ...icc event at biggest stage..

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

MSD failed in 6 World T20s...failed in all WCs....failed in 5 out of 6 WC knockout games.

This guy is like Inzi. Scored a jaw dropping knock and then flopped in WCs everytime. Sure, he will be remembered as a success in WC for that great knock which won his team the WC but no one who digs into data deep is gonna call Dhoni clutch in WC knockouts.

Cos the bitter truth is that he was a choker in those situations.

But no...let's mock ABD for his ill luck and praise Dhoni for all his luck in WCs.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

2011 final is a daylight robbery . Gambhir was the star.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

2011 final is a daylight robbery . Gambhir was the star.

Gambo did all the super hard work but Dhoni's knock gets under-rated by some here.

Yuvi against Murali was dangerous.

Dhoni came in at a stage where the game was still in balance and simply tilted it in our favour. We can argue whose knock (Gambo or Dhoni) was better but Dhoni's knock was extremely crucial too due to the situation.

We chased down the finals due to 2 situations:

1. Kohli and Gambo steadying our ship after the epic Sehwag-Sachin dismissal.
2. Gambo and Dhoni taking us to safe shores after Kohli got out

Any mistake in either of these situations would have resulted in a loss. Such is the pressure of WC finals.

 

[Drreddymd]

Give me a match winner who scores 40-50 and help his team win rather than a player who score hundreds after hundreds and still his team loses.

What happens to his match winning capability outside of asia and icc tournaments in which he is a passenger? He is not a match winner on his own. He is a side kick for other players who has to take the risk while he is eating deliveries and take credit by staying not out

 

[Drreddymd]

So per your requirement Only Jos Butler and ABD are ATG ODI Keeper Batsmen ? Even the most blind Dhoni hater will not take those 2 above MSD in a crunch WC Knock out match.

BTW just for giggles ... add captaincy filter to that stat I posted and see what happens

Still u r living in the myth that he is a crunch match player? As many posted he is an abysmal failure in every crunch match of his icc career other than one fluke final innings

 

[Tusker]

MSD failed in 6 World T20s...failed in all WCs....failed in 5 out of 6 WC knockout games.

This guy is like Inzi. Scored a jaw dropping knock and then flopped in WCs everytime. Sure, he will be remembered as a success in WC for that great knock which won his team the WC but no one who digs into data deep is gonna call Dhoni clutch in WC knockouts.

Cos the bitter truth is that he was a choker in those situations.

But no...let's mock ABD for his ill luck and praise Dhoni for all his luck in WCs.

You call inablity to make 125 runs in T20 match against India to qualify for S/F (at Home BTW Not in India ) as bad luck ? Guess who

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You call inablity to make 125 runs in T20 match against India to qualify for S/F (at Home BTW Not in India ) as bad luck ? Guess who

Don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Gambo did all the super hard work but Dhoni's knock gets under-rated by some here.

Yuvi against Murali was dangerous.

Dhoni came in at a stage where the game was still in balance and simply tilted it in our favour. We can argue whose knock (Gambo or Dhoni) was better but Dhoni's knock was extremely crucial too due to the situation.

We chased down the finals due to 2 situations:

1. Kohli and Gambo steadying our ship after the epic Sehwag-Sachin dismissal.
2. Gambo and Dhoni taking us to safe shores after Kohli got out

Any mistake in either of these situations would have resulted in a loss. Such is the pressure of WC finals.

Gambhirs innings is not rated by many. Its always Dhoni and his six. Gambhir-Kohli ,Gambhir-Dhoni was the crutial partnerships. Common factor is Gambhir. He was dismissed within 50 runs. MOM should've gone to Gambhir. He did it for us in T20 2007 final and 2011 final. I guess Dhoni is more sellable

 

[Drreddymd]

MSD failed in 6 World T20s...failed in all WCs....failed in 5 out of 6 WC knockout games.

This guy is like Inzi. Scored a jaw dropping knock and then flopped in WCs everytime. Sure, he will be remembered as a success in WC for that great knock which won his team the WC but no one who digs into data deep is gonna call Dhoni clutch in WC knockouts.

Cos the bitter truth is that he was a choker in those situations.

But no...let's mock ABD for his ill luck and praise Dhoni for all his luck in WCs.

Sif i posted this so many times but the myth is so deep rooted it takes time to be bustef

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Gambhirs innings is not rated by many. Its always Dhoni and his six. Gambhir-Kohli ,Gambhir-Dhoni was the crutial partnerships. Common factor is Gambhir. He was dismissed within 50 runs. MOM should've gone to Gambhir. He did it for us in T20 2007 final and 2011 final. I guess Dhoni is more sellable

That's true. Gambo was criminally under-rated. But problem is in order to rectify that, Dhoni's is starting to get under-rated to prop up Gambo's knock.

 

[Drreddymd]

Give me a match winner who scores 40-50 and help his team win rather than a player who score hundreds after hundreds and still his team loses.

Yeah it is the scorer who is at fault and not finishers like dhoni who r not doing their job

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sif i posted this so many times but the myth is so deep rooted it takes time to be bustef

The biggest myth ever was that Dhoni was a good T20I player. Yes, its understandable that IPL leads to that perception ( I thought so too) but once he didn't click in 2014, he should have been packed off.

No player in the history of the game has flopped in so many world tournaments in a format and still maintained his spot...that too as captain.

Shocking really.

 

[Tusker]

Don't know what you are talking about.

Lets see if you can figure it out ....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/287876.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/twenty20wc/content/story/311845.html

Enjoy!!

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Lets see if you can figure it out ....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/287876.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/twenty20wc/content/story/311845.html

Enjoy!!

So you have one random game of ABD not scoring to make your point.

Oh dear.

ABD is not even considered a good T20I player based on performance let alone a clutch player in that format.

Must be slim pickings to harp on this.

 

[Pollack]

So per your requirement Only Jos Butler and ABD are ATG ODI Keeper Batsmen ? Even the most blind Dhoni hater will not take those 2 above MSD in a crunch WC Knock out match.

BTW just for giggles ... add captaincy filter to that stat I posted and see what happens

Jos butler early days looks like another choker.
Yes would take ABD over dhoni in a WC knock out match. Dhoni has been poor in worldcups save one match.

 

[Drreddymd]

Lol I honestly don't know why you beat yourself daily so much over Dhoni buddy.

Kohli has an even inferior world cup record but if he retires today from ODIs, he will retire as an ATG batsman. I think the problem you have is you rate all ATG players at the same level. Dhoni, despite being an ATG, is a level below Viv, Sachin, Ponting in my books. Waqar wasn't at the same level as Wasim or McGrath in test cricket, doesn't mean he wasn't an ATG.

Anyway this is just my opinion. I consider AB, Kohli and Dhoni a level below Viv, SRT and Ponting in ODIs because of their mediocre performance at world cups. But all three of them are ATGs in my book nonetheless. You may rate anyone even below which is of course your prerogative.

U accept that dhoni is inferior than sachin, ponting but his die hards still have the guts to say he is better than them when facts are presented and his myths are busted

 

[Kaptan]

Is that supposed to be a dig at Sachin?

What's the common trait amongst Dhoni fans and Dravid fans?

They big up their heroes by pulling down one of their own who just happens to be simply greater than them.

Not a dig at anyone.
But seriously off late people have started bashing Dhoni for everything and anything.
He comes at no 4-5 how many hundreds do you expect him to score ? The guy sacrificed his batting position for the team, or else he would have scored more hundreds.
Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

 

[Tusker]

So you have one random game of ABD not scoring to make your point.

Oh dear.

ABD is not even considered a good T20I player based on performance let alone a clutch player in that format.

Must be slim pickings to harp on this.

Do you even know the meaning of Slim pickings ? It applies perfectly and squarely to your guy

 

[Drreddymd]

Not a dig at anyone.
But seriously off late people have started bashing Dhoni for everything and anything.
He comes at no 4-5 how many hundreds do you expect him to score ? The guy sacrificed his batting position for the team, or else he would have scored more hundreds.
Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

Because kohli is a far better player than dhoni and for him the hype is worth its salt and not to a player who chokes everytime he plays in icc tournaments

 

[Tusker]

Not a dig at anyone.
But seriously off late people have started bashing Dhoni for everything and anything.
He comes at no 4-5 how many hundreds do you expect him to score ? The guy sacrificed his batting position for the team, or else he would have scored more hundreds.
Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

Was going to post the exact same thing !! No match for the Desi cricket fans ... pretty unique species

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Not a dig at anyone.
But seriously off late people have started bashing Dhoni for everything and anything.
He comes at no 4-5 how many hundreds do you expect him to score ? The guy sacrificed his batting position for the team, or else he would have scored more hundreds.
Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

I do agree with this post.

He did sacrifice his spot up the order.

But still that was a dig. Happens.

As for Dhoni, the issue is this:

While he is a clutch bat in general, the fact that he has rarely ever performed in ICC tournaments but yet has cornered the market for clutch performances. As you just said, you would rather have a match winning 50 than useless 100s....if you look at data, you would see tons of SRT 100s coming in crucial games resulting in wins and NONE of Dhoni 50s (barring WC final knock) ever winning us an ICC knockout game.

That's called perception. Dhoni has cornered the market without performing yet players like ABD get ridiculed in ODIs inspite of doing well in what little chances they get (by the way, ABD is not clutch as Dhoni in general and he is a choker in T20I).

Also if Dhoni is so selfless, give me one good reason why he is still playing T20?
If he is so selfless, give me one good reason why he didn't quit ODI captaincy after 2015 WC for a new captain to be groomed?
If he is so selfless, give me one good reason why he didn't quit test captaincy after it was clear the selectors wanted to remove him in 2012?

Do you see what's going on?

That's the issue.

 

[Pollack]

Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

So dhoni cannot bat in very bad situation and very good situation.So an atg odi player can bat only when things are calm and everything is alright.

I and many others did not bash dhoni .I criticise him though with explanations as well.

I would never bash kohli as a no match winner even if he performs poorly for rest of the career.Would say he regressed.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Do you even know the meaning of Slim pickings ? It applies perfectly and squarely to your guy

I don't know the meaning of slim pickings but atleast I know failing in 6 World T20s, failing in all WCs (inspite of haing an ATG batting lineup in 2011 to back you up), failing in 5 out of 6 knockout games ain't no SLIM PICKINGS.

 

[Kaptan]

Because kohli is a far better player than dhoni and for him the hype is worth its salt and not to a player who chokes everytime he plays in icc tournaments

Wait for some years mate. Its bound to happen.
As I said some XYZ will pop up and bash him for anything and everything. Maybe then you will defend Kohli just like how I defend Dhoni

 

[R0H1T]

Not a dig at anyone.
But seriously off late people have started bashing Dhoni for everything and anything.
He comes at no 4-5 how many hundreds do you expect him to score ? The guy sacrificed his batting position for the team, or else he would have scored more hundreds.
Outside Asia most of the time when he comes to bat, India is in a very bad position (wickets falling every other ball) or in a very good position (where he is expected to score at a high strike rate from ball one).
Yes he also failed sometimes, everyone does.
This is typical of Indian fans, bash anyone who is in the last stage of his career, forget everything which he did for his country. Just like Sachin was bashed for ridiculous reasons in late 2000.
Believe me when Kohli will grow old and his form drops, some xys will pop up here and do the exact same.

He didn't sacrifice anything, he's awful against pace that's why he never batted ahead of Gambbhir, Yuvraj, Raina or even a young Kohli outside of Asia. His test record proves that amply, in fact if not for his not outs in ODI, many in losing cause, his overall average in ODI would be much lower.

Too many of his fans ignore the obvious deficiencies in his technique, his pattern of batting (real slow to start) & taking it to the last over (when the match could be won much earlier) & then bring in the 3 ICC trophies, out of 9 or 10, in which he captained the side to wash the blame away from his spotty record. He was a good ODI captain, that's it, but had the best Indian team at his disposal, a fact that many conveniently ignore!