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MS Dhoni is an ATG ODI player but is now fast becoming a burden for India

sensible-indian-fan

sensible-indian-fan

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You can defend him all you want but the last few months, Dhoni has been mediocre.

He was the given the best ever platform possible today.

Came ahead of in form Rahane and screwed up the finishing big time.

Some deliveries were outstanding no doubt but he simply wasn't able to connect well.

I dunno how much his form will affect us in this WC.

I hope he does well but signs are not good at all.
 
SIF please, its a request. Lay off him for this tournament. He's the captain, there is nothing that will change that now. Lets talk about this after the event is over.
 
Dhoni was clearly playing to gallery, was hitting the ball too hard. He has become very arrogant.
 
for the first time SIF is not wrist slitting
Dhoni has to retire now(after world cup,too late now)
 
Cricfan4eva said:
SIF please, its a request. Lay off him for this tournament. He's the captain, there is nothing that will change that now. Lets talk about this after the event is over.
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Bro.....look at the context of this match bro.

He stopped the in form Rahane to come in and botched up ALL the good effort of others.

Just couldn't strike anything and I know he was trying hard.

I hope he clicks but signs are really bad.

With a fluke batsman like Jaddu, jaded finisher like Dhoni and match losing ODI batsman Ashwin....we have no finishers at all.
 
Even Kohli was pathetic before today.Have patience.

Came in at 46th over with Pak bowling well.Not easy to hit from the go
 
Wahab and Sohail bowled well to him, everyone struggled.
 
As for Rahane,he himself showed why he wasnt promoted.He isnt good for death overs at all
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Bro.....look at the context of this match bro.

He stopped the in form Rahane to come in and botched up ALL the good effort of others.

Just couldn't strike anything and I know he was trying hard.

I hope he clicks but signs are really bad.

With a fluke batsman like Jaddu, jaded finisher like Dhoni and match losing ODI batsman Ashwin....we have no finishers at all.
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Whatever the signs maybe. He will play all the games until India exit. So all I'm saying is, lets leave this Dhoni-retire talks for post world cup. There'll be ample time. I know you're just too passionate about the team, so are most of us but its futile to discuss something that wont happen.

About the decision to come above Rahane. Well I didn't mind him coming before Rahane but Jaddu shouldn't have.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Whatever the signs maybe. He will play all the games until India exit. So all I'm saying is, lets leave this Dhoni-retire talks for post world cup. There'll be ample time. I know you're just too passionate about the team, so are most of us but its futile to discuss something that wont happen.

About the decision to come above Rahane. Well I didn't mind him coming before Rahane but Jaddu shouldn't have.
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I didn't say Dhoni must retire. He can't do that mid tourney.

But highlighting his issue.

A forum is for discussion of everything (shortcomings, awesomeness, etc).
 
I agree he is not doing well but who else do we have???? Did you see rahane and jadeja play in last 10 pathetic honestly
 
Thing is, just because he's retired from test cricket. It seems like he is over. Every player goes through a slump. And a player with Dhoni's technique has done well to be so consistent.

I am not going to give up on him just yet. Which is why I think calling him a burden is premature. Let the tourney finish and then we can really assess. Jadeja couldn't even get bat to ball and he's a decent hitter.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Thing is, just because he's retired from test cricket. It seems like he is over. Every player goes through a slump. And a player with Dhoni's technique has done well to be so consistent.

I am not going to give up on him just yet. Which is why I think calling him a burden is premature. Let the tourney finish and then we can really assess. Jadeja couldn't even get bat to ball and he's a decent hitter.
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I hope its just a slump.

Even NZ ODI tour, he got out at the wrong time and couldn't finish any games. Never seen Dhoni get out after being in control before but it happened in that series.

The signs are there sadly.

Hope he has a last hurray at this WC.
 
Rahane was put in "you need to slog every ball situation no matter what".

Maybe he could have flopped.

Logically Dhoni coming up is right.

But he was very very average today.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So you will judge player with 1 ball even when the same player is in form and finished well in the warm up games.
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Thats what I meant.Even in such he could do nothing in end as hes not suited to it.Dhoni still managed some runs.

Ideally we need Rahane opening and Rohit in middle order to provide big hitting
 
To be honest, Everyone other than Raina seems to struggle in the end overs for us.
For Dhoni, today's innings was underwhelming because we expect too much everytime ( fairy tale finish ). He still had a >100 sr.
I dont see Rahane/Jadeja hitting like Dhoni ever. they might have their lucky days, but definitely not as consistent as Dhoni.
 
Saurav said:
Thats what I meant.Even in such he could do nothing in end as hes not suited to it.Dhoni still managed some runs.

Ideally we need Rahane opening and Rohit in middle order to provide big hitting
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So you will put people in you have to score 6 every ball kinda slog situation and judge them against those who came in a proper finisher spot?

That's a very biased way to judge.

Dhoni coming up is logical cos he has reputation but don't say Rahane's 1 ball dismissal shows why Dhoni is better even now.
 
Very Pakistan thread really...Indians are going Pakistan's way of blaming everything on Misbah.
 
Trust me against most teams, I would have put my money for PAK today, recently they almost chased 300 at Abu Dhabi against a better attack & much better fielding side on a much larger ground; BUT not so sure now - only because they 'll be chasing against MSD........................ If I were in charge, I 'll keep MSD in LO team till 2023 WC, only for his captaincy.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I hope its just a slump.

Even NZ ODI tour, he got out at the wrong time and couldn't finish any games. Never seen Dhoni get out after being in control before but it happened in that series.

The signs are there sadly.

Hope he has a last hurray at this WC.
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What?He was good in NZ series.Cant see how scores of 40,56,50,79,47 is bad
 
dhump said:
Very Pakistan thread really...Indians are going Pakistan's way of blaming everything on Misbah.
Click to expand...

Please see his stats and stuff.

Not one off thing bro.

If you have been following Indian cricket closely, you would not say this is a knee jerk thread.

I didn't say Dhoni should be thrown out, etc, etc.

He is having issues. Last 8 games avg 25 with SR 75 coming at finishers role.

The worse part is that these days he tries to slog but can't.

As I said before, I hope it changes but signs are not good.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So you will put people in you have to score 6 every ball kinda slog situation and judge them against those who came in a proper finisher spot?

That's a very biased way to judge.

Dhoni coming up is logical cos he has reputation but don't say Rahane's 1 ball dismissal shows why Dhoni is better even now.
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I m not bashing Rahane

But he usually takes time and is not a big hitter as we need in that situation.Dhoni in any form is better suited
 
Saurav said:
What?He was good in NZ series.Cant see how scores of 40,56,50,79,47 is bad
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NZ series he was good in batting. Who said anything against that?

I said he couldn't finish any games and got out at the wrong time....which was very odd cos when Dhoni gets in, he finishes games like 90-95% of the time.
 
Why is SIF so negative? Is he the Mamoon of India? Dhoni did not play that well even in WC 2011, except for the final. Anyway don't see much wrong with 18(13) innings. Pakistan bowled a few good death overs, and India fell 20 runs short.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Please see his stats and stuff.

Not one off thing bro.

If you have been following Indian cricket closely, you would not say this is a knee jerk thread.

I didn't say Dhoni should be thrown out, etc, etc.

He is having issues. Last 8 games avg 25 with SR 75 coming at finishers role.

The worse part is that these days he tries to slog but can't.

As I said before, I hope it changes but signs are not good.
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Last 8 games is not sample enough and India is struggling as a team.
 
Saurav said:
I m not bashing Rahane

But he usually takes time and is not a big hitter as we need in that situation.Dhoni in any form is better suited
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He did finish against Afghanistan.

Dhoni coming up was right. I am not using hindsight to bash him.

I am saying he hasn't been good enough the last few months.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
last 8 games spans from Oct 2014 and even involves India vs WI home games where we were owning them.
Click to expand...

Still sample is of just 8 games plus dhoni have played some remarkable knocks at the end and the number he bats on he dont have much chance to built an inning much more difficult to get back into form so 8 games at his number is not enough.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
NZ series he was good in batting. Who said anything against that?

I said he couldn't finish any games and got out at the wrong time....which was very odd cos when Dhoni gets in, he finishes games like 90-95% of the time.
Click to expand...

Thats because no one other than Kohli supported him.He depends on others hitting and tries to take it till end
 
IndianWillow said:
Why is SIF so negative? Is he the Mamoon of India? Dhoni did not play that well even in WC 2011, except for the final. Anyway don't see much wrong with 18(13) innings. Pakistan bowled a few good death overs, and India fell 20 runs short.
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If you saw today's game and say Dhoni's knock wasn't much wrong...what can I say bro?

18(13) involves a 6. He was trying to slog but couldn't. One got connected or else it would have been 100 SR.

Very unlike Dhoni innings.

When you are given the best platform, you either score or get out. Dhoni couldn't do either.

132 SR will sound good but in the match context, this was a very very disappointing innings.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
If you saw today's game and say Dhoni's knock wasn't much wrong...what can I say bro?

18(13) involves a 6. He was trying to slog but couldn't. One got connected or else it would have been 100 SR.

Very unlike Dhoni innings.

When you are given the best platform, you either score or get out. Dhoni couldn't do either.

132 SR will sound good but in the match context, this was a very very disappointing innings.
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Dhoni has never been the kind of player who can slog fluently when he comes into bat around the 45th over - this is also the reason why he is not a beast in T20s. Dhoni is at his best when he comes into bat between the 20th and 35th over and he takes some time to adjust, and he is regularly capable of playing a knock at over a run a ball when he comes into bat a bit early. Dhoni always takes some time to get going, and once he gets his eye in, he would unleash a lot of boundaries and sixes.

Yours are totally unrealistic assumptions about Dhoni, I would say. Main problem in today's match was Kohli's sedate innings due to his scratchy form of late. Kohli's 100s usually come much faster, else 320-330 was clearly on for India.
 
IndianWillow said:
Dhoni has never been the kind of player who can slog fluently when he comes into bat around the 45th over - this is also the reason why he is not a beast in T20s. Dhoni is at his best when he comes into bat between the 20th and 35th over and he takes some time to adjust, and he is regularly capable of playing a knock at over a run a ball when he comes into bat a bit early. Dhoni always takes some time to get going, and once he gets his eye in, he would unleash a lot of boundaries and sixes.

Yours are totally unrealistic assumptions about Dhoni, I would say. Main problem in today's match was Kohli's sedate innings due to his scratchy form of late. Kohli's 100s usually come much faster, else 320-330 was clearly on for India.
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Lot of Indian fans will learn when he actually retires for good . After he goes we will be left with only Raina to finish us matches & like Pak will struggle to chase anything above 250
 
jusarrived said:
Lot of Indian fans will learn when he actually retires for good . After he goes we will be left with only Raina to finish us matches & like Pak will struggle to chase anything above 250
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As of now, yes. India has no replacement for Dhoni. He has been out of form, his game is on the decline, yet India will feel the pinch when he retires.
 
Hasn't delivered for a while recently

Maybe a few home series will do him wonders

Can't see him retiring yet
 
Brilliant captaincy though.

The way he cut out the scoring areas of Haris Sohal against pacers.
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
 
jusarrived said:
Lot of Indian fans will learn when he actually retires for good . After he goes we will be left with only Raina to finish us matches & like Pak will struggle to chase anything above 250
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Did I say about him in general?

Why do we have to make such OTT statements when genuine queries are asked?

Of course, we will feel Dhoni's absence.

He is the most valuable ODI player ever.

Very good LOI keeper. ATG ODI captain. ATG ODI batsman and finisher.

Not saying Dhoni will not click or anything. As of now, he is becoming an issue.
 
SIF is right. He has to bat up before Raina as he is not able to launch the fast bowlers. But give credit to Sohail and Wahab - excellant death bowling and saved 20 runs easily.

Rahane, Dhoni, Raina Jadeja should be the order. May be he can hit the spin well in the middle order.

India cannot bank on hitting in the slog over as the bowlers across the world in this WC is excellant and India doesnt have any. Mitch and Starc, Broad and Andy, Steyn and Morkel, Wahab and Sohail, Boult and Southee, Mallinga etc..
What has India got - Shami and Yadav - Sprayguns
 
Savak and Misbah. And @ Sensible-indian-fan and MSD. still a better love story than Twilight
 
Is MS Dhoni's batting on the decline?

What do you guys think? His big hitting has been nowhere to be seen in the last year or so. Can still be handy middle order player but without the fear factor.
 
Possibly.
I think it's time to move on and get some very hungry youngsters in there , give em a chance.Like Sanju Samson.
 
He is a FTB who relies on hand-eye co-ordination like Sehwag. Though Sehwag had static feet, he played orthodox strokes. Dhoni bats like he has barbed wire stuck in his trousers, plus he is probably 45+ years old judging the amount of grey hair he has. The fluke purple patch was inevitably going to come to an end. Good riddance
 
Orbis said:
He is a FTB who relies on hand-eye co-ordination like Sehwag. Though Sehwag had static feet, he played orthodox strokes. Dhoni bats like he has barbed wire stuck in his trousers, plus he is probably 45+ years old judging the amount of grey hair he has. The fluke purple patch was inevitably going to come to an end. Good riddance
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fluke purple patch?Averages 50+ in ODis
 
Orbis said:
He is a FTB who relies on hand-eye co-ordination like Sehwag. Though Sehwag had static feet, he played orthodox strokes. Dhoni bats like he has barbed wire stuck in his trousers, plus he is probably 45+ years old judging the amount of grey hair he has. The fluke purple patch was inevitably going to come to an end. Good riddance
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You sir have no idea about what you are talking about.

Great profile pic by the way.
 
I made a thread about it and got brickbats for it. :))

Dhoni Is An ATG ODI Player But Is Now Fast Becoming A Burden For Us

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ayer-But-Is-Now-Fast-Becoming-A-Burden-For-Us

He should retire within the next 1-1.5 years tops.

These days when he is forced to score fast right from the start, he struggles. Even he hits sixes and makes up some of the times...you never feel its convincing.

He wasn't like this. Is too scratchy these days.
 
desi_launda said:
fluke purple patch?Averages 50+ in ODis
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But a garbage test player. According to Indians Laxman is better than Yousuf and Sanga because he is a "better test player" despite averaging in the mid-40s with the latter 2 averaging in the 50s.

At least be consistent in arguments, Dhoni is rubbish according to Indian logic so I expect you to agree with me :)
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Well he is turning it on now.

:))

Haha....awesome.
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Even I can hit someone like Karn Sharma who has 6 different actions before he releases the ball, but he is meant to be one of the best in India having played for the country. No seamers and no spinners, a dire outlook in bowling as usual.

Btw Dhoni has never scored a T20i half-century, he is too old and too grey for modern T20i.
 
Agreed he doesnt have the same sting in his batting these days but having seen him all these years ... I believe he would himself step down when he feels he is not able to match up the skills.

His Test performance was never encouraging but in one dayers and T20 .. one can still put money on him.
 
53 (29), a strike rate better than Brendon's

Always wait for someone to settle down before starting such threads. Dhoni has issues with his hitting in international cricket but never in IPL.
 
desi_launda said:
remember last IPL game?
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Mccullum was out for a duck, does it mean he became a bad T20 batsman after last game?

One IPL game out of 100+ he's played doesnt prove anything. Last IPL season his SR was 149, in 2013 it was 162. IPL hitting hs never been an issue for him
 
cricketindiafan said:
53 (29), a strike rate better than Brendon's

Always wait for someone to settle down before starting such threads. Dhoni has issues with his hitting in international cricket but never in IPL.
Click to expand...

Even in IPL he will shine only for one or two matches and mostly when someone else has played a great knock. Sunrisers seems like his favorite opponent.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Mccullum was out for a duck, does it mean he became a bad T20 batsman after last game?

One IPL game out of 100+ he's played doesnt prove anything. Last IPL season his SR was 149, in 2013 it was 162. IPL hitting hs never been an issue for him
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He has been succeeding in 1 or 2 games last few IPL, doing the bare minimum
 
Dhoni has to thank his stars that he had Raina to rescue him ever since Yuvi went out of form. Dhoni wouldn't have so much success without these two pure match winners. That's why I have been a big fan of Umar Akmal. Stats would not show the efforts they put to turn the game around.

if Raina has a bad patch I think that will be it for Dhoni as well.
 
dude is almost 34.. of course he can't bat the same way he used to forever..
 
Dhoni can play as a number 4 now he doesnt or cant slog from ball one. He takes 15-20 balls to get in then starts attacking and get his RR up. When he comes in at the death in Internationals he consumes too much time nowadays.
 
Didnt see him bat today but in the past year he has looked a shadow of his old self
 
Slog said:
Didnt see him bat today but in the past year he has looked a shadow of his old self
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Scratchy innings. Struggled with his timing. Ugly swipes. Hit the last ball for six as he finally middled one.
 
Looks retarded when his shots don't go for boundaries. Looks cool when hitting sixes.
 
Tumhe team main rakha gaya tha ke tum ne gaind dhoni thi... baal to dho lia kar
 
Team India is carrying MSD for almost 3 years now. He is a very ordinary bat now. Probably should bat No.7 or No.8. MSD coming in at No.5 is a joke.
 
Been telling it for ages.

His knock at the death (along with Rahane's knock to a lesser extent) sucked the life out of the chase. He did fight valiantly but it was too little too late and he clearly looked out of his depths.

[MENTION=139315]Indian_Supporter[/MENTION] - Don't get me wrong bro. This thread isn't about hating on Dhoni. Love him but his time is up.
 
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