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MS Dhoni is an ATG ODI player but is now fast becoming a burden for India

Two things.

1.He is rusty as he is not playing tests for India anymore.So will take time to get into the groove.May be he should play a few matches for Jharkhand to get match practice.

2.He has had a dip in form.But he is not 37-38 that he needs to go.He is still extremely fit and has lots f cricket left in him.


Wont blame him for todays match.The Match was in the hand but wickets kept falling.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So I see PPers are slowly realizing "maybe ....Dhoni is declining".

Been saying it for 1.5 years now. :))

This guy won't play 2019 WC.

And 90% sure he won't make it to 2017 Champions Trophy. If he did, it would be just sad.
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He will play the 2019 WC.

And the only poor series he has had in last 12 months is in Australia.

Avgd 53 in the SA series.
 
yasir_shah said:
have you heard of babar azam? Your fellow tamil hero Ashwin was raving about him on twitter lol
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18 matches and beasting a poor WI team in UAE while failing to avg beyond 25 in ENG and SL.Yea heard of him.

And Ashwin is a nice man.

I can only LOL at you trying to compare Babar Azam with Dhoni.
 
cricketjoshila said:
18 matches and beasting a poor WI team in UAE while failing to avg beyond 25 in ENG and SL.Yea heard of him.

And Ashwin is a nice man.

I can only LOL at you trying to compare Babar Azam with Dhoni.
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your cricket insight is terrible.

He's only 22 and was in bad touch in England but you conveniently ignored his average in NZ and vs Eng in UAE last year as well his strike rate which is already higher than Kohli's and is only going to get better with his ability against pace and spin...

Averaging 52 with a SR of 93-94 and you make him look rubbish? He's better than every Indian ODI batsman except Kohli.
 
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yasir_shah said:
your cricket insight is terrible.

He's only 22 and was in bad touch in England but you conveniently ignored his average in NZ and vs Eng in UAE last year as well his strike rate which is already higher than Kohli's and is only going to get better with his ability against pace and spin...

Averaging 52 with a SR of 93-94 and you make him look rubbish? He's better than every Indian ODI batsman except Kohli.
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LOL at comparing him with Kohli and being better than every Indian ODI batsman.He is not fit to be compared with people who have scored 1000s of ODI runs.

Thank god i dont have your cricketing insight.
 
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cricketjoshila said:
He will play the 2019 WC.

And the only poor series he has had in last 12 months is in Australia.

Avgd 53 in the SA series.
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Yeah..I am aware of the stats.

But he was horrible in that SA series where he was scratching around during 2 chases. Lost 1 gettable chase after Rohit special. The stats will say 100 SR for that game but Dhoni messed up big time.

The 92 was a gem of a knock. Apart from that, it was horrible series for him.

He has been scratchy for over a year now be it ODIs or T20s.

He will not last for 2019 WC.

Won't make it to 2017 Champions Trophy too. Mostly.

He is done. A few knocks here or there but in general, will be a liability. Has been for a while.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yeah..I am aware of the stats.

But he was horrible in that SA series where he was scratching around during 2 chases. Lost 1 gettable chase after Rohit special. The stats will say 100 SR for that game but Dhoni messed up big time.

The 92 was a gem of a knock. Apart from that, it was horrible series for him.

He has been scratchy for over a year now be it ODIs or T20s.

He will not last for 2019 WC.

Won't make it to 2017 Champions Trophy too. Mostly.

He is done. A few knocks here or there but in general, will be a liability. Has been for a while.
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Dhoni messed up that chase?Why not look at Rahane,Dhawan Kohli all scratching around at poor SRs. Rabada bowled a brilliant last over.

Dhoni will play the 2017 CT and the 2019 WC.Thats pretty much guaranteed.

He had a poor Aussie series and after that this is the series he is batting in ODIs.Thats too much time between the series and he is rusty.
 
SIF doesn't like Dhoni anymore because most Pakistani's support him. The big question is if he's to be let go which talunt can replace him? there is only one Dhoni and even at 50% he is better then most of the bums in the Ranji Trophy
 
cricketjoshila said:
The tailender has a better batting avg than any Pakstani ODI batsman.
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It is completely pathetic to call Dhoni a tailender as he is a great LO batsmen.

But why do you always need to compare an Indian players record with a Pakistan one? It's like Pakistan is the only team in the world and as long as that Indian player is better than the Pakistan one, you are content and happy with that.
 
Ms isn't going anywhere till the champions trophy at least. So Indians best just get use to him being captain. After this series there is only 3 odis till the champions trophy for India anyway so you won't be seeing much of Dhoni :misbah
 
yasir_shah_fan said:
You don't know your cricket then and don't compare a FTB in rohit to a 50+ avg batsman who has yet to hit his prime.
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Yes an FTB who has 4 centuries in Australia, Babar will do well to get one century in Australia.

We don't need to compare Babar with any Indian players just let him develop and avoid comparisons.
 
Ankit007 said:
I dont think you have any knowledge of cricket then. He is a non conventional player who has played some fabulous innings when everyone failed. He is not in best of the form currently but soon will be. Maybe in Champions Trophy :)
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Playing a few fab innings that does not make him a world beater, even Lala Afridi looks brilliant on his day. Every player is good when on form, he is a glorified tail ender and flat track bully. On a bouncy track he is as vulnerable as any tail ender.
 
PakLFC said:
Playing a few fab innings that does not make him a world beater, even Lala Afridi looks brilliant on his day. Every player is good when on form, he is a glorified tail ender and flat track bully. On a bouncy track he is as vulnerable as any tail ender.
Click to expand...

He is done and dusted. I won't be surprised if he surprises everyone with a sudden retirement from ODI & T20s.
 
Hasan123 said:
It is completely pathetic to call Dhoni a tailender as he is a great LO batsmen.

But why do you always need to compare an Indian players record with a Pakistan one? It's like Pakistan is the only team in the world and as long as that Indian player is better than the Pakistan one, you are content and happy with that.
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How do you reply to a pathetic post?And if the poster was an Lankan i would have compared him to a Lankan,A saffer to a Saffer and so on and so forth.
 
Am usually at odds vs [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] bhai, but he is in the right here. Dhoni is not done. Yeah players who don't have classical techniques in their mid 30s can easily convert themselves to accumulators from aggressors and guys who rely on power and hand-eye like Sehwag and Dhoni might struggle, but I think latter has a much sharper cricketing mind and nerves of steel to deliver in crunch moments.

Besides, in the SA series he did fine. Not to mention he is still a fine keeper and don't think Sanjay Samsung is ready to take the reins atm.

Fab captain too, it was a collective failure, not just Dhoni.

Cricketing atmosphere atm with a lot of medium pacers and flat pitches, should more often than not work in his favor. Starc, Abbott and Rabada might be the only guys he might regularly struggle against from now on.

But he should still fancy himself to hit out vs the other top ODI bowlers.
 
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Dhoni is the Rajnikanth of cricket, he is cool asf. I'm gonna miss him when he retires/dropped.
 
I am surprised no one takes Dhoni to task or any serious accountability. The amount of matches the guy has cost his team of late due to slow innings, miscalculated run chases is pretty high in the recent past.
 
AlphaFighter said:
I am surprised no one takes Dhoni to task or any serious accountability. The amount of matches the guy has cost his team of late due to slow innings, miscalculated run chases is pretty high in the recent past.
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Especially the last T20 vs WI in US, it was a total disaster.
 
It is declining, but we don't have a good backup option. Pinning hopes on Pant, I would want MS to continue until the 19 World Cup and then Pant take over from there
 
Yes, it is.

He is still a good captain and batsman, but me thinks we will do better without Dhoni. :msd
 
Rohit should be captain. He's such a better batsman. He looks like a natural leader, so does Dhoni but he's losing you more games with is batting than he's winning with his captaincy.
 
Sanzcool said:
It is declining, but we don't have a good backup option. Pinning hopes on Pant, I would want MS to continue until the 19 World Cup and then Pant take over from there
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Pant & Samson - both are contenders for ODIs and T20s, both should be given equal opportunities.
 
Just a phase where things are not going his way. His batting still looks quite good.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Just a phase where things are not going his way. His batting still looks quite good.
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Nah, he has lost it. When he couldn't put away a Zimbabwean pacer, I knew he had lost it big time. He is in that phase when you were a champion player before but you have lost it, yet you are trying hard to prove your body wrong and show the world that you've still got it (but failing at it). He may yet show the occasional brilliance but it was the ability to pull out the big shots at will at any situation that made him special and he has lost it. At the moment, he is a decent player now but proving to be a liability for India more than anything else. I think we will have an another SF exit in this year's champions league, feel Dhoni needs to give the reins to Kohli. We can build a goodish team for the Champions trophy.

Rohit
Rahul
Kohli (c)
Pandey
Raina
Samson/Pant (wk)
Pandya/Jadeja
Ashwin
Bhuvi
Shami
Bumrah

At the moment, we have a non existent middle order. A 5,6,7 of Raina, Samson/Pant and Pandya will inject some strength into the side. I like Dhoni but I'm afraid he is weakening the middle order.
 
AlphaFighter said:
I am surprised no one takes Dhoni to task or any serious accountability. The amount of matches the guy has cost his team of late due to slow innings, miscalculated run chases is pretty high in the recent past.
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True. Yet no one talks about it.

That is really sad.

But posters will learn the truth. They always do.

Dhoni has 2 options:

Figure out a way to retire now.

Or

Retire in a humiliating fashion down the road.

Let's see how it goes.
 
1.5 years since this thread was started

Let's see how long people can continue believing in him.

Just read this thread from top to bottom. Hehe.
 
Dhoni is still a decent prospect for us in ODI's he just needs someone who can run fast and pick gaps at the other end (like Virat or Raina)

Off late he is not able to pick the gaps. Hits most deliveries straight to the fielders. Still if you want 1 player to hold an end and provide support without losing his wicket he is the one. Power hitting skill has also reduced as he's 35.

First of all remove dead wood like Axar, Mishra and Kedar. Rahane also is a mediocre option, Rahul should replace him once fit.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So I see PPers are slowly realizing "maybe ....Dhoni is declining".

Been saying it for 1.5 years now. :))

This guy won't play 2019 WC.

And 90% sure he won't make it to 2017 Champions Trophy. If he did, it would be just sad.
Click to expand...

I think he started declining after the 2013 Champions Trophy, so your waiting until 18 months ago to call for his head is actually pretty generous to Dhoni.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
True. Yet no one talks about it.

That is really sad.

But posters will learn the truth. They always do.

Dhoni has 2 options:

Figure out a way to retire now.

Or

Retire in a humiliating fashion down the road.

Let's see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Champions Trophy next year would provide him a nice opportunity to retire with izzat :afridi

But then surely India's World Cup chances would be improved if they only picked guys who will be in contention for places in 2019.
 
Pantani said:
I think he started declining after the 2013 Champions Trophy, so your waiting until 18 months ago to call for his head is actually pretty generous to Dhoni.
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He started declining around the 2014 NZ ODI tour.

Post CT 2013, he won us a tournament in WI from a very very very hard situation. :P

I waited for a while cos you have to give a decent sample set before coming to conclusion. Or else it would be a knee jerk reaction.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
He started declining around the 2014 NZ ODI tour.

Post CT 2013, he won us a tournament in WI from a very very very hard situation. :P

I waited for a while cos you have to give a decent sample set before coming to conclusion. Or else it would be a knee jerk reaction.
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Ah, that's right. I think I remember that tri series. Upul Tharanga hit a massive hundred in the group stage, which frustrated me because I thought of him as a TTF hundred-or-nothing kind of batsman and that big score bought him some prolonged time in the team.

I agree it was good for you to wait but people thought you were having a knee jerk reaction even after 1 year of Dhoni performing not like he did before!
 
Statsman said:
Even Raina with 32@100 has better stats.
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Raina's value is still immense in the team. Generally, his runs are very clutch and tend to come when the team really needs them. His consistency needs to be improved a little though.
 
Why is it that when a player is at the wrong side of 30s, its called 'on a decline' and not 'out of form'.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Why is it that when a player is at the wrong side of 30s, its called 'on a decline' and not 'out of form'.
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Well its commonsense. Most older people suffer from lack of reflexes etc as they get older. Some are exceptions.
 
MenInG said:
Well its commonsense. Most older people suffer from lack of reflexes etc as they get older. Some are exceptions.
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But we have seen not all players have the same shelf-life.

He is as fit as one can get and runs faster than many young players going around. Problem with him is not his reflexes imo, if it was there would have been a pattern in the way he gets dismissed.

He's just not converting his 20s and 30s to bigger score, he used to so easily some time back.

IMO his test retirement and the shift to no.4/5 has coincided and he's just not adjusted to the role yet. He's had few good innings in between but largely looked rusty.

A player of his calibre definitely deserves a long rope. And if what Kapil said is true that MSD told him he's shed few kilos to prolong his career, there's not good news for people wanting to see his back from all forms of cricket.
 
PakLFC said:
Playing a few fab innings that does not make him a world beater, even Lala Afridi looks brilliant on his day. Every player is good when on form, he is a glorified tail ender and flat track bully. On a bouncy track he is as vulnerable as any tail ender.
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MS is the 5th fastest to reach 8000 runs batting at 5 or at 6 most of his career... Perhaps not a tailender stat right? At least think what you post man....
 
Ankit007 said:
MS is the 5th fastest to reach 8000 runs batting at 5 or at 6 most of his career... Perhaps not a tailender stat right? At least think what you post man....
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He scores heavily against weak opposition and when playing at home. Have seen how poor he is when the attack is half decent or he is playing outside his comfort zone.
 
PakLFC said:
Playing a few fab innings that does not make him a world beater, even Lala Afridi looks brilliant on his day. Every player is good when on form, he is a glorified tail ender and flat track bully. On a bouncy track he is as vulnerable as any tail ender.
Click to expand...

I suppose 60 50s and 9 100s comprise a 'few fab innings'. He may be a tailender by the high batting standards of Pakistani wicketkeepers such as Kamran Akmal, Rashid Latif and Moin Khan (all of whom average in the 20s) but MS Dhoni is a legend for us Indians. He is miles above any wicketkeeper batsman that India has produced across all formats and ,more importantly, has played countless match-winning innings.
 
anindo said:
I suppose 60 50s and 9 100s comprise a 'few fab innings'. He may be a tailender by the high batting standards of Pakistani wicketkeepers such as Kamran Akmal, Rashid Latif and Moin Khan (all of whom average in the 20s) but MS Dhoni is a legend for us Indians. He is miles above any wicketkeeper batsman that India has produced across all formats and ,more importantly, has played countless match-winning innings.
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Sarfaraz Ahmed our current wicket keeper is producing high quality innings, repeatedly. You conveniently forgot to mention him. Dhoni can be whatever for you people, for many impartial ones he is indeed a glorified tail ender and always will be.
 
PakLFC said:
Sarfaraz Ahmed our current wicket keeper is producing high quality innings, repeatedly. You conveniently forgot to mention him. Dhoni can be whatever for you people, for many impartial ones he is indeed a glorified tail ender and always will be.
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You exactly dont count as impartial ones.

MSD avgs 51 in ODIs to Sarfaraz Ahmed's 34. There is an "Arsalanesque" gap between them. Its an insult that MSD is being compared to him.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You exactly dont count as impartial ones.

MSD avgs 51 in ODIs to Sarfaraz Ahmed's 34. There is an "Arsalanesque" gap between them. Its an insult that MSD is being compared to him.
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Forget Sarfaraz, if you take Average into count then even Babar Azam is a tailender for this guy. Infact whole pakistani batting lineup is a tail :)))

He just dont want to understand that for a wicket-keeper to maintain average of 51 in these much amount of games itself shows class of him.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You exactly dont count as impartial ones.

MSD avgs 51 in ODIs to Sarfaraz Ahmed's 34. There is an "Arsalanesque" gap between them. Its an insult that MSD is being compared to him.
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You must be a tail ender yourself!:narine Sarfaraz has just started his career where as Dhoni is a granddad in criceting terms.
 
PakLFC said:
You must be a tail ender yourself!:narine Sarfaraz has just started his career where as Dhoni is a granddad in criceting terms.
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Sarfaraz is 29 years,not some spring chicken..

So if Dhoni with an avg of 51 is tailender what is Sarfaraz with an avg of 34?
 
PakLFC said:
Sarfaraz Ahmed our current wicket keeper is producing high quality innings, repeatedly. You conveniently forgot to mention him. Dhoni can be whatever for you people, for many impartial ones he is indeed a glorified tail ender and always will be.
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Good for you that at least you have a wicketkeeper who can average in the low 30s. Dhoni needs to take batting lessons from him.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Sarfaraz is 29 years,not some spring chicken..

So if Dhoni with an avg of 51 is tailender what is Sarfaraz with an avg of 34?
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How old is Dhoni? I never said Sarfaraz was a great batsman. Infact have often said that he should bat at n number 7. It's you who is going on about Dhoni being Viv Richards or something.
 
anindo said:
Good for you that at least you have a wicketkeeper who can average in the low 30s. Dhoni needs to take batting lessons from him.
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Younis and Misbah are doing the business with the bat. Of course I want Sarfaraz to average a 100 however he is doing fine. He is a good to average batsman where as Dhoni is incredibly overrated.
 
PakLFC said:
How old is Dhoni? I never said Sarfaraz was a great batsman. Infact have often said that he should bat at n number 7. It's you who is going on about Dhoni being Viv Richards or something.
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How many batsman avg above 50 in ODIs?
 
Dhoni as a finisher has regressed beyond repair

What remains to be seen is whether he can be useful at no.4 in middle overs.Which I think he can.He has mentioned he wants to bat at 4 but loss of form for Raina means there is no finisher.So he has to do the job himself

He has to change the approach of dragging the match to last over
 
cricketjoshila said:
Dhoni will walk into any ODI team.That is a fact.
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Do you see me disagreeing boss?

I love MSD one of the five greatest ODI cricketers.

I just don't get why you can't appreciate some of Pakistan's ODi abtters particularly Babar Azam.

What about Sharjeel Khan's firepower and Sarfraz's form now finally finding his batting position which is at 5 and was also leading run scorer in the 5 ODI series recently in England.

As a matter of fact I doubt India could outscore Pakistan if Kohli got out cheaply, other than him the batting is equally matched...

It's also an issue that India isn't playing the likes of Lokesh Rahul who looks like is going to be a big impact player in all 3 forms of the game because he's very good. Along with him no Yuvi, Raina and Harbhajan down the order can hit big sixes...
 
Hasan123 said:
Yes an FTB who has 4 centuries in Australia, Babar will do well to get one century in Australia.

We don't need to compare Babar with any Indian players just let him develop and avoid comparisons.
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Babar Azam is in a different league.

Take your blue cap on and come back to green.
 
yasir_shah_fan said:
Babar Azam is in a different league.

Take your blue cap on and come back to green.
Click to expand...

Don't question my support for the team ever.

It's just speaking the truth there is no use being biased and deluded

Babar has a bit to go before being compared with Rohit and has a very long way to go to be up there with Kohli
 
AlphaFighter said:
I am surprised no one takes Dhoni to task or any serious accountability. The amount of matches the guy has cost his team of late due to slow innings, miscalculated run chases is pretty high in the recent past.
Click to expand...

You nailed it. Dhoni is not the same anymore. He should only play T20's and leave the captaincy too. 90% of the desi cricketers have no idea of when to hang their boots. Our cricketers should learn from sri lankan cricketers.
 
Hasan123 said:
Don't question my support for the team ever.

It's just speaking the truth there is no use being biased and deluded

Babar has a bit to go before being compared with Rohit and has a very long way to go to be up there with Kohli
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Since 2013, Rohit has been statistically better than Kohli. Babar has a long way to go before being compared with either.
 
Was never that good. Always enjoyed a super batting line up around him that will win the matches while he will just stay on the wicket.
 
Dhoni's average is going to drop below 50 unless he retires after champions trophy or bats at #4.
 
Dhoni, like Kapil and Sachin before him, is hurting his image by needlessly carrying on. He's an ODI legend and he's achieved everything in this format. Why keep playing?
 
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