Muslim girl refuses to shake hand with German President

[TalentSpotterPk]

Muslim girl refuses to shake German president's hand as he visits a school to praise it… for integrating migrants so well


German president Joachim Gauck was visiting a school in Offenbach last month

He visited the school to praise them for their work on integrating migrants

But as he shook hands with students, one Muslim girl refused to shake hands

She quickly pulled her hands away and put her hand over her chest before smiling


A Muslim girl refused to shake the hand of the German president despite him visiting her school to praise students for integrating migrants so well.
Footage has emerged of the visit of Joachim Gauck to the Theodor Heuss School in Offenbach at the end of last month.


It shows him arriving at the school in his official car with students waiting for him at the entrance and holding up welcome signs in a variety of languages including German and Arabic.


A Muslim girl refused to shake the hand of the German president despite him visiting her school to praise students for integrating migrants so well

He had chosen to visit the school after it was singled out as being an example of how they successfully help migrant children learn the German language and culture.


Mr Gauck was then introduced to a line up of students and as he went down the line, he proceeded to shake hands with every one of them.

But when the president, who largely has a ceremonial role in Germany, reached the girl in a hijab in the line-up she quickly moved her hand away.

She then placed it over her chest and bowed her head as Mr Gauck held out his hand for her.

But realising she was not going to greet him like the other students, the pair just exchanged smiles and he quickly moved on to the next student.

It is unclear why she moved away from the hand shake, however some Muslims refuse all physical contact with members of the opposite sex they are not married or related to.

However, it is not the first time Muslims have refused to shake hands with members of the opposite sex in Germany.


After refusing the president's hand, the pair just exchanged smiles and he quickly moved on to the next student

In July, a Muslim pupil refused to shake the hand of his female teacher on 'religious grounds.'
As the teacher at the Kurt-Tucholsky School in Hamburg went to shake the hand of the student he offered his wrist instead.


Apparently, seconds later, he told her; 'No offence, my religion won't let me do that. I do not mean to disrespect you.'
But fellow teachers were outraged and demanded he be sent home from the event, a move the headteacher refused.
Meanwhile in Switzerland, a 15-year-old Muslim schoolboy was forced to shake hands with his female teachers after he refused to do so.


Amer Salhani lost his appeal in September after his school rejected his argument that the Swiss tradition of handshake greetings went against Islam.
The teenager and his older brother sparked a fiery debate earlier this year when they said they could not shake their teacher's hand because their religion forbids physical contact with a member of the opposite sex - unless they are family.


[UTUBE]yGgyfdIH3I4[/UTUBE]


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-school-praise-integrating-migrants-well.html

 

[Indiafan]

Does the religion actually forbid physical contact? And why is all physical contact considered sexual even when its not meant to be?

Anyways usually people understand the cultural differences and am sure the President didnt take it the wrong way

 

[Varun]

It's not a good sign if the community is always in the news, even if not for the wrong reasons outright like in this example.

Muslim this, Muslim that alone is enough to lead to Islamophobia in some Western nations.

 

[street cricketer]

Must have been a bit awkward for the Prez.

In all honesty, I don't blame the girl. It's due to a cultural gap.

 

[Zak_Fan]

No big deal. Despite this, she seemed quite pleasant.

 

[Madplayer]

Good on her.

Waiting for Ethnocentrists to criticise her now.

 

[troodon]

If her religion forbids her from having physical touch with strangers, she cannot be blamed.

On the other hand, this will be deemed as yet another example of how Muslims are different from the rest of the society.

 

[Madplayer]

If her religion forbids her from having physical touch with strangers, she cannot be blamed.

On the other hand, this will be deemed as yet another example of how Muslims are different from the rest of the society.

The Parsis feed their dead to vultures.

 

[troodon]

The Parsis feed their dead to vultures.

How is this related to what the Muslim girl did?

As long as Parsis do not feed the non-parsi bodies to vultures, it is their business. Also, they are not offending anyone.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very extreme position to take not to shake hands even, but this is an issue these days as the trend moves to more informal greetings than previously. These days not only do male and females shake hands, they usually exchange kisses in modern western culture.

 

[s28]

Strong woman. Girl power. Well done sister. #Solidarity

 

[Madplayer]

How is this related to what the Muslim girl did?

As long as Parsis do not feed the non-parsi bodies to vultures, it is their business. Also, they are not offending anyone.

They are offending me. I value humans even after they are dead. They hurt my sentiments.

 

[blue_champion]

Actions like this give rise to the stereotype....it is not like she was being forced to do something against her religion....Again it could have been an individual preference but this just makes it worse...stupid move

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

She was very sweet and respectful.

Didn't show a holier than thou attitude. So nothing wrong.

Matter gets complicated when you choose to be this strict in a place where you could get attacked by bigots.

 

[Noman]

Actions like this give rise to the stereotype....it is not like she was being forced to do something against her religion....Again it could have been an individual preference but this just makes it worse...stupid move

Muslim should stop Coming to The West! Islam is outdated for West! We have to be moral liberal otherwise live in muslim countries!!!!!

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Good on her but always better to inform beforehand.

 

[in_cutter]

So?? Why is this even 'news'??

 

[Madplayer]

So?? Why is this even 'news'??

Because a muslim did something which the civilised westerners find unusual.

 

[troodon]

Because a muslim did something which the civilised westerners find unusual.

Western world is moving towards equality of sexes. You are not special or have different set of rules in public just because you are a man or woman. In private you can follow what ever you want.

I would much rather follow the Western philosophy of equality of sexes rather than have a biased set of rules for women.

 

[Madplayer]

Western world is moving towards equality of sexes. You are not special or have different set of rules in public just because you are a man or woman. In private you can follow what ever you want.

I would much rather follow the Western philosophy of equality of sexes rather than have a biased set of rules for women.

The same western world also talks about freedom and liberty. So if a woman decides not to shake hands with anyone, i'm sure the western world will give her that freedom.

 

[troodon]

The same western world also talks about freedom and liberty. So if a woman decides not to shake hands with anyone, i'm sure the western world will give her that freedom.

Its the reason due to which she did not shake hands.

I refused to shake hands with some men before due to my personal issues with them.

What issue does this lady have against German president? Its the religion.

 

[Syed1]

Its the reason due to which she did not shake hands.

I refused to shake hands with some men before due to my personal issues with them.

What issue does this lady have against German president? Its the religion.

You have been born in India and lived there all your life. When you meet unknown women do you shake their hands? Men and women shaking hands is a very Western thing. We do not do it due to both cultural and religious reasons.

 

[Syed1]

Meanwhile in Canada:




Good ol' Justin really knows how to win hearts and minds. (Btw this is not a one off, Justin always greets Muslim women with hand on heart and does not offer to shake their hand unless they do so themselves)

 

[troodon]

You have been born in India and lived there all your life. When you meet unknown women do you shake their hands? Men and women shaking hands is a very Western thing. We do not do it due to both cultural and religious reasons.

Yes. I was born in a small town and if a young lady offered a hand shake, I did not refuse.

Shaking hands with woman is not a taboo in India. May be in villages. Not sure.

Kissing and hugging would be considered strange. But shaking hands is not a big deal.

 

[Syed1]

Yes. I was born in a small town and if a young lady offered a hand shake, I did not refuse.

Shaking hands with woman is not a taboo in India. May be in villages. Not sure.

Kissing and hugging would be considered strange. But shaking hands is not a big deal.

Yes even in Pakistan unless a girl offers to shake your hand you do not take the lead in shaking it. It is just a cultural thing.

Even in Far East and Oriental parts of Asia, offering to shake hands with women is taboo, unless they do so themselves.


Obviously now the entire world is being influenced by the West and such things are becoming common.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't think not shaking hands with the opposite sex is restricted to muslims only. It's a bit of a cultural thing in the east. Although it might be more pronounced among muslims.

Obviously there is no strict prohibition on shaking hands. Still it isn't a normal practice too.

 

[Pakistanian]

I only shake hands with a Muslimah if she extends her hand, that said all the Muslimahs I met at a recent MSA meet shook hands with me.

 

[Rayyman]

Meanwhile in Canada:

View attachment 71717


Good ol' Justin really knows how to win hearts and minds. (Btw this is not a one off, Justin always greets Muslim women with hand on heart and does not offer to shake their hand unless they do so themselves)

I wonder what Trump will do

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Meanwhile in Canada:

View attachment 71717


Good ol' Justin really knows how to win hearts and minds. (Btw this is not a one off, Justin always greets Muslim women with hand on heart and does not offer to shake their hand unless they do so themselves)

Very commendable leader in many many ways.

I hope and pray he remains controversy free.

World need Leaders like him.

 

[endymion248]

Meanwhile in Canada:

View attachment 71717


Good ol' Justin really knows how to win hearts and minds. (Btw this is not a one off, Justin always greets Muslim women with hand on heart and does not offer to shake their hand unless they do so themselves)

Meanwhile in Canada

 

[Syed1]

Meanwhile in Canada

Our PM is a rock-star. Boo-yah haters..

 

[endymion248]

Our PM is a rock-star. Boo-yah haters..

I like him. He would have been a good leader for Quebec's independence. He sold out to the Anglos sadly.

 

[Syed1]

I like him. He would have been a good leader for Quebec's independence. He sold out to the Anglos sadly.

Quebec doesn't want independence anymore.


Source: Lived in Quebec for 7 years

 

[The_KING]

I never understand this no shaking hands thingy and neither do I agree with it. It's awkward and insulting if you refuse to shake someone's hand. It's basic manners. Do people have to be so extreme even in this day and age?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

King is soon going to join brother Junaids, yasir, endy and DW army.

Likh lou meri baat.

 

[The_KING]

King is soon going to join brother Junaids, yasir, endy and DW army.

Likh lou meri baat.

What else do you see in your crystal ball?

 

[ask_analyse_act]

why is this a news? She looks all pleasant and gives a hearty welcome..Everything is normal... She is a practising muslim woman and it should be like this... Well done sister.. #solidarity...

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

What else do you see in your crystal ball?

Ask yourself brother.


Are you getting nearer to religion or getting away from it ?


Moderation is good no doubt.


Many posters have felt it. From defender of Islam and Muslims few months ago now you are fierce Critic of Islam and Muslims.


This is no way trolling. It's an identity crisis and stage where confusions and questions get hold of oneself and there is no one to answer the ambiguities and arguments and one feels He is not getting the rational answers and things don't make sense. This is when drift starts. Some comeback while some have go and forth. Aana jaana laga rehta dono taraf. And some leave forever.


It is indeed your life, your brain, your heart and your opinion. You have the right to chose any path or think in any way. No One has the right to enforce his her beliefs over you or to force you or threaten you. Alhamdoulillah you are in a good place where no one can harm you citing religion behind their evil sick struggle.


Quite a personal post. I hope you do not mind it. Even if you do express it I shall embrace it and bear with patience and will pray for you.


Though I don't know you personally neither you know me. But transformation has saddened me. Can't explain why. This is why I am bothered to give abit personal remarks and infringe your life.


I am Sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Rayyman]

People that get offended if somebody doesn't shake their hand are too sensitive.

 

[Thivagar]

Meanwhile in Canada:

View attachment 71717


Good ol' Justin really knows how to win hearts and minds. (Btw this is not a one off, Justin always greets Muslim women with hand on heart and does not offer to shake their hand unless they do so themselves)

Few years ago, when he was less known to the public he was attending the same event that my dad was attending and almost drove into my dad's car at the parking lot. My dad flipped him off, he was polite and apologized. Later that night he got up on the stage and did a speech at the event. Someone told my dad that his father was the most famous Canadian politician, ex Prime Minister and the Montreal's airport is named after his dad lol.

 

[The_KING]

Ask yourself brother.


Are you getting nearer to religion or getting away from it ?


Moderation is good no doubt.


Many posters have felt it. From defender of Islam and Muslims few months ago now you are fierce Critic of Islam and Muslims.


This is no way trolling. It's an identity crisis and stage where confusions and questions get hold of oneself and there is no one to answer the ambiguities and arguments and one feels He is not getting the rational answers and things don't make sense. This is when drift starts. Some comeback while some have go and forth. Aana jaana laga rehta dono taraf. And some leave forever.


It is indeed your life, your brain, your heart and your opinion. You have the right to chose any path or think in any way. No One has the right to enforce his her beliefs over you or to force you or threaten you. Alhamdoulillah you are in a good place where no one can harm you citing religion behind their evil sick struggle.


Quite a personal post. I hope you do not mind it. Even if you do express it I shall embrace it and bear with patience and will pray for you.


Though I don't know you personally neither you know me. But transformation has saddened me. Can't explain why. This is why I am bothered to give abit personal remarks and infringe your life.


I am Sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Thanks for the post. I'm still a Muslim and will always remain one although I'm not very strict on every aspect of Islam atm.

 

[PakLFC]

Is there anything in German law that says you have to shake hands with anyone? If not I don't see the problem.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good on her to stick to her personal values. Any sane person would understand people have different methods of greeting others. No issue here.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Is she breaking any law by refusing to respectfully not offer her hands to the German President ??

I am not really fluent in German Laws but can someone please suffice to answer this question with a simple yes or no ??

Would love some help on the matter
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] @TalenSpotterPk [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[Pakistanian]

Is she breaking any law by refusing to respectfully not offer her hands to the German President ??

I am not really fluent in German Laws but can someone please suffice to answer this question with a simple yes or no ??

Would love some help on the matter
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] @TalenSpotterPk [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

No, but the Germans will view this as a rejection of German values and cultural norms. So yeah she's free to not shake hands with a non-mehram but the Germans do have the right to feel disrespected. Every country has cultural norms that aren't part of the law but you learn that they like you more if you make an effort to follow it.

 

[Gilly]

Good on her to stick to her personal values. Any sane person would understand people have different methods of greeting others. No issue here.

It is customary in Germany to greet people by shaking their hand, would it have hurt her to respect their culture.

I agree that people have different methods of greeting people and it is respectful to adhere to the customs of the country you are in, In a muslim country you would adhere to their customs out of respect and that should also apply in reverse.

To earn respect for your culture you need to respect the cultures of others also.

 

[endymion248]

It is customary in Germany to greet people by shaking their hand, would it have hurt her to respect their culture.

I agree that people have different methods of greeting people and it is respectful to adhere to the customs of the country you are in, In a muslim country you would adhere to their customs out of respect and that should also apply in reverse.

To earn respect for your culture you need to respect the cultures of others also.

Yeah and it's customary in France to greet people by kissing them on the cheek. Yet every anglo expat or tourist acts like it doesn't apply to them.

 

[Gilly]

Yeah and it's customary in France to greet people by kissing them on the cheek. Yet every anglo expat or tourist acts like it doesn't apply to them.

Is this an excuse or a reason?.

 

[Madplayer]

Its the reason due to which she did not shake hands.

I refused to shake hands with some men before due to my personal issues with them.

What issue does this lady have against German president? Its the religion.

So? What difference does it make what the reason is? You had your reasons she had her's. Or are u saying your reason is valid and her's is invalid? Who decides which reasons are correct?

If i have a problem with you not shaking hands with those men because i think your reasons aren't good enough, its completely my problem not yours. Your life , your reasons and you are entitled to have them unless you talk about harming some one.

This incidence should not even have been a news but everyone is ready to jump on even the most pettiest of issues involving Muslims to demonize them.

 

[endymion248]

Is this an excuse or a reason?.

An observation. Anglos are the most disrespectful immigrants to other people's customs. They expect the world to cater to them. Never learn local languages, never integrate. Just be loud and egotistical.

 

[Gilly]

An observation. Anglos are the most disrespectful immigrants to other people's customs. They expect the world to cater to them. Never learn local languages, never integrate. Just be loud and egotistical.

Which country have you observed this in?, I only ask this because most of the Anglos that migrate to my country intergrate smoothly but I live in a multi cultural country.

 

[endymion248]

Which country have you observed this in?, I only ask this because most of the Anglos that migrate to my country intergrate smoothly but I live in a multi cultural country.

Don't you live in Australia?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Should have shook hands.

If you can't abide by customs and traditions of a country, live in your own.

Eat off others countries, raise entire families in their country , yet refuse to budge when offered a simple handshake.

Ridiculous.

 

[Gilly]

Don't you live in Australia?

Yes I do.

 

[Robert]

If a Muslim woman did not take my offered hand but put hers on her heart I would just copy her gesture. There is more than one way of greeting someone with respect.

 

[Gilly]

If a Muslim woman did not take my offered hand but put hers on her heart I would just copy her gesture. There is more than one way of greeting someone with respect.

Yes Robert if someone puts their hand on their heart to greet you then it would be respectful to copy the gesture, if someone offers you their hand to greet you then it would be respectful to copy the gesture.

 

[Junaids]

Is she breaking any law by refusing to respectfully not offer her hands to the German President ??

I am not really fluent in German Laws but can someone please suffice to answer this question with a simple yes or no ??

Would love some help on the matter
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] @TalenSpotterPk [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

It's not about Laws, but it is about respect.

It is about her, a kid, already having been indoctrinated to believe that her values outweigh and outrank those of the country which has taken her family in.

If her family insist upon adhering to those values, even when meeting the Head of State, then they have chosen the wrong country to migrate to. I find this behaviour ungrateful, offensive and extremely disrespectful.

There is an unbridgeable cultural chasm between westerners and certain hardline Muslims. There is no point of compromise between:

A) people who outlaw physical contact between a woman and an unrelated male or who mandate the covering up of women.

And

B) people with western values.

The former group thinks that we in the former group have loose morality. The people in the latter group think that the people in the former group are trapped in medieval misogyny which enslaves women.

It's why my sister could not, for example, move to Riyadh or Tehran or Kandahar and dress in public according to her beliefs and go alone to the shops (or with a male friend or colleague).

But it's also why people who don't think a female can shake a man's hand or have an uncovered head in public should not live in the West. The fact that we will try to respect their freedom of choice and not persecute them does not mean that we like or respect their behaviour, or that we are unoffended by it. And they should not put us in that position.

Some cultural chasms are unbridgeable.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Why the show of piety .. does she think she'll earn brownie points with God ? If something as basic and universal as shaking hands can't be adhered to , then people will think of her as strange and keep their distance from her. Adapt , girl.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Why the show of piety .. does she think she'll earn brownie points with God ? If something as basic and universal as shaking hands can't be adhered to , then people will think of her as strange and keep their distance from her. Adapt , girl.

Doesn't she have the freedom to greet the way she's comfortable with. She was humble enough to bow a bit in respect of her decline of the handshake and all the while showed a positive outlook and had a very gracious smile on her face. Isn't that enough man ???

I mean for all the hoopla around the west being 'pro women freedom oriented' these guys are sure narrow minded.

Ok, let me ask you one thing. When I am eating food I use my hands instead of utensils such as spoon or fork. This is a Sunnah way of eating food for Muslims. So let's say if I am visiting Europe or the West should I start eating with a spoon or a fork ??

 

[Romali_rotti]

Nothing wrong with what she did, but some muslims definitely know how to make life hard for themselves. It seems that there is some kind of a problem in the WEST with certain muslims, I am not saying all muslims are the same just to make it clear, however some of these people just cant assimilate in the Western society. Look at below, a muslim women refuses to stand up in court saying she will only stand up for Allah:

Muslim woman refuses to stand for judge

Commonsense judge put foot down over burqa
Magistrates could follow path set by District Court
A MUSLIM woman who refused to take off her veil to give evidence in court has been warned she may be charged with contempt because she also refuses to stand for the Judge.

Moutia Elzahed the second “wife” of convicted IS recruiter Hamdi Alqudsi caused controversy last week when she refused to take off her veil to give evidence in a civil case where she is suing the police over a terrorism raid of her home in 2014.

Judge Audrey Balla stopped Ms Elzahed from giving evidence saying she needed to see her face to assess her credibility.

This morning Judge Balla challenged her barrister Clive Evatt on why Ms Elzahed would not stand for her, in accordance with court protocol, each time she entered and left the bench.


Defence Attorney for Moutia Elzaheds, Clive Evatt. Picture: Adam Taylor
“I noticed on Wednesday and I see again today that the first plaintiff (Ms Elzahed) does not stand when I come onto the bench and when I leave the bench, is there a reason?” Judge Balla asked.

Mr Evatt replied, “according to my instructions she won’t stand for anyone except Allah, which I’m not particularly happy with.”

Judge Balla told Mr Evatt that his client should be made aware that she could be charged under new changes to contempt of court laws which have made it easier to prosecute people who refused to stand in court.

“It won’t (the decision) be made by me but will be made by others,” Judge Balla said.

“I just wanted to check that she had received advice.”


She won’t show her face in court, or stand for the judge.
Judge Balla said each time Ms Elzahed refused to stand could be considered a separate offence.

Last week Judge Balla refused to hear evidence from Ms Elzahed because she would not show her face while men were in the court.

Ms Elzahed is the second wife of convicted IS recruiter Hamdi Alqudsi, whose other wife Carnita Matthews has had her own very public fight with the law over her veil.

Ms Elzahed, Alqudsi and her two teenage sons are suing the Commonwealth of Australia and the State of New South Wales for assault and battery during the Operation Appleby counter-terrorism raids on September 18, 2014.

The court transcript revealed that Ms Elzahed instructed her barrister Clive Evatt to request that she keep her veil on while giving evidence or, alternatively, that all the men in the courtroom look away.

“There is a slightly unusual religious problem,” Mr Evatt said.

“She can show her face to women but not men. What I suggest is that she gets in the witness box, reveals her face to your Honour and any other woman in the court and the men look the other way.”

“I don’t know if I am happy with that,” Judge Balla replied, “Are you proposing that she would have her face covered while she is giving evidence and being cross-examined?”

“I’m afraid so. Yes. It is not very satisfactory, your Honour, but it is something we have to live with,” Mr Evatt said.

“It is not something I have to live with,” Judge Balla replied.

Judge Balla tried to find a compromise by offering to close the court to the public or allow Ms Elzahed to give evidence in another room that would be transmitted by an audiovisual link.

But Judge Balla insisted she still show her face while being examined and cross-examined by the three male barristers stating she “had to be fair to all parties” and she needed to see her face, “to assess her credibility.”

Since the raid, Alqudsi has faced a trial and been convicted of helping seven men travel to Syria to fight with Islamist rebels, including Islamic State in the civil war.

He is serving a sentence of eight years with a non-parole period of six years.

His other wife Carnita Matthews was found guilty in 2010 of falsely accusing a police officer of ripping off her burqa during a traffic stop.

That conviction was quashed on appeal the following year when District Judge Clive Jeffreys ruled there was no way of knowing who had been the woman under the burqa was the false allegations were made.

Ms Elzahed’s civil case continues.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/3823feee12403c1c73808626960f92a2

 

[Romali_rotti]

Funny thing is if you go to an Islamic country and are not a muslim, however practiced your religious practices there may be a hell of hardships coming your way.......

 

[Junaids]

Doesn't she have the freedom to greet the way she's comfortable with.

Ok, let me ask you one thing. When I am eating food I use my hands instead of utensils such as spoon or fork. This is a Sunnah way of eating food for Muslims. So let's say if I am visiting Europe or the West should I start eating with a spoon or a fork ??

In private, do whatever you like.

But if you are an invited dinner guest, either use cutlery or politely decline the invitation.

And if you use your hands when eating alone but in public view - say with your family in a restaurant - be prepared to receive hostile looks.

 

[Junaids]

Nothing wrong with what she did, but some muslims definitely know how to make life hard for themselves. It seems that there is some kind of a problem in the WEST with certain muslims, I am not saying all muslims are the same just to make it clear, however some of these people just cant assimilate in the Western society. Look at below, a muslim women refuses to stand up in court saying she will only stand up for Allah:

Muslim woman refuses to stand for judge

Commonsense judge put foot down over burqa
Magistrates could follow path set by District Court
A MUSLIM woman who refused to take off her veil to give evidence in court has been warned she may be charged with contempt because she also refuses to stand for the Judge.

Moutia Elzahed the second “wife” of convicted IS recruiter Hamdi Alqudsi caused controversy last week when she refused to take off her veil to give evidence in a civil case where she is suing the police over a terrorism raid of her home in 2014.

Judge Audrey Balla stopped Ms Elzahed from giving evidence saying she needed to see her face to assess her credibility.

This morning Judge Balla challenged her barrister Clive Evatt on why Ms Elzahed would not stand for her, in accordance with court protocol, each time she entered and left the bench.


Defence Attorney for Moutia Elzaheds, Clive Evatt. Picture: Adam Taylor
“I noticed on Wednesday and I see again today that the first plaintiff (Ms Elzahed) does not stand when I come onto the bench and when I leave the bench, is there a reason?” Judge Balla asked.

Mr Evatt replied, “according to my instructions she won’t stand for anyone except Allah, which I’m not particularly happy with.”

Judge Balla told Mr Evatt that his client should be made aware that she could be charged under new changes to contempt of court laws which have made it easier to prosecute people who refused to stand in court.

“It won’t (the decision) be made by me but will be made by others,” Judge Balla said.

“I just wanted to check that she had received advice.”


She won’t show her face in court, or stand for the judge.
Judge Balla said each time Ms Elzahed refused to stand could be considered a separate offence.

Last week Judge Balla refused to hear evidence from Ms Elzahed because she would not show her face while men were in the court.

Ms Elzahed is the second wife of convicted IS recruiter Hamdi Alqudsi, whose other wife Carnita Matthews has had her own very public fight with the law over her veil.

Ms Elzahed, Alqudsi and her two teenage sons are suing the Commonwealth of Australia and the State of New South Wales for assault and battery during the Operation Appleby counter-terrorism raids on September 18, 2014.

The court transcript revealed that Ms Elzahed instructed her barrister Clive Evatt to request that she keep her veil on while giving evidence or, alternatively, that all the men in the courtroom look away.

“There is a slightly unusual religious problem,” Mr Evatt said.

“She can show her face to women but not men. What I suggest is that she gets in the witness box, reveals her face to your Honour and any other woman in the court and the men look the other way.”

“I don’t know if I am happy with that,” Judge Balla replied, “Are you proposing that she would have her face covered while she is giving evidence and being cross-examined?”

“I’m afraid so. Yes. It is not very satisfactory, your Honour, but it is something we have to live with,” Mr Evatt said.

“It is not something I have to live with,” Judge Balla replied.

Judge Balla tried to find a compromise by offering to close the court to the public or allow Ms Elzahed to give evidence in another room that would be transmitted by an audiovisual link.

But Judge Balla insisted she still show her face while being examined and cross-examined by the three male barristers stating she “had to be fair to all parties” and she needed to see her face, “to assess her credibility.”

Since the raid, Alqudsi has faced a trial and been convicted of helping seven men travel to Syria to fight with Islamist rebels, including Islamic State in the civil war.

He is serving a sentence of eight years with a non-parole period of six years.

His other wife Carnita Matthews was found guilty in 2010 of falsely accusing a police officer of ripping off her burqa during a traffic stop.

That conviction was quashed on appeal the following year when District Judge Clive Jeffreys ruled there was no way of knowing who had been the woman under the burqa was the false allegations were made.

Ms Elzahed’s civil case continues.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/3823feee12403c1c73808626960f92a2

Isn't this PRECISELY what Contempt of Court is?

Just lock her up and throw away the key.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Isn't this PRECISELY what Contempt of Court is?

Just lock her up and throw away the key.

I just cant understand the reasoning behind this extreme religious thinking At the end of the day Allah is not going to pay for your bills, save you from law if you have been found to have broken it or under suspicion. Is there no common sense in these people ?

 

[Junaids]

I just cant understand the reasoning behind this extreme religious thinking At the end of the day Allah is not going to pay for your bills, save you from law if you have been found to have broken it or under suspicion. Is there no common sense in these people ?

I totally agree.

But in her case (the terrorist's "wife", not the kid in Germany) it's something deeper and nastier.

She clearly has no respect for our laws. Indeed she's not even legally married here.

You look at the hate and anger in the extremist mob outside court, and they are a clear danger to our society and safety. If they can be thrown out of the country, they should be, and if not they should be locked up.

Because otherwise they will spread their intolerance and hate to others.

And make life worse for decent Muslims.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Is she breaking any law by refusing to respectfully not offer her hands to the German President ??

I am not really fluent in German Laws but can someone please suffice to answer this question with a simple yes or no ??

Would love some help on the matter
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] @TalenSpotterPk [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

No

 

[kingusama92]

The young girl and her non-handshake is arguable (for both POVs), but the lady in court is downright wrong and should be charged for contempt of court.

 

[Black Zero]

Not single religion is compatible with modern civilization. But wahabism makes you ultra inflexible.
Glorious age of religion has ended. Thanks god.

At the moment, modern civilization is accommodating religious beliefs and giving religion a chance to update, but eventually this is a stale mate and religion will be pushed back to corner, rightfully.

This push back has started in EU, USA, and coming to AUS and Canada (in recent election in canada, burqa issue caused by a pakistani immigrant cost ndp dearly).

 

[Dr_Bassim]

The young girl and her non-handshake is arguable (for both POVs), but the lady in court is downright wrong and should be charged for contempt of court.

It is not arguable for the young girl even.

You want to practice Islam, do it in a country which appreciates such gestures.

If you want to be different, live in a country which appreciates your religion and your beliefs as such.

But if you want to amalgamate in the West, eat with the West, drink with the West, earn tax benefits from the West and get education from the West, and insist that you will still follow tradition of the Arabs, then you are basically a hypocrite.

I doubt the young lady would be willing to give up her life in Germany by moving to Arabia and then getting her way with handshakes.

 

[Black Zero]

The young girl and her non-handshake is arguable (for both POVs), but the lady in court is downright wrong and should be charged for contempt of court.

She said, she would stand only for Allah..

This indicates her concept af god.

Court should do something similar to what Iraqi court did to saddam, when he refused to stand.

Anyway, check out about the other wife on net.
http://www.news.com.au/national/mus...t/news-story/5b693561f28957a281b53049291e7932

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

It is not arguable for the young girl even.

You want to practice Islam, do it in a country which appreciates such gestures.

If you want to be different, live in a country which appreciates your religion and your beliefs as such.

But if you want to amalgamate in the West, eat with the West, drink with the West, earn tax benefits from the West and get education from the West, and insist that you will still follow tradition of the Arabs, then you are basically a hypocrite.

I doubt the young lady would be willing to give up her life in Germany by moving to Arabia and then getting her way with handshakes.

Are You Sure ?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Are You Sure ?

Well I purposely avoided confrontation by saying following "Islam" because I do not believe Islam is so strict as to condemn people to hell on the basis of handshake.

Listen.

It's quite simple.

If someone starts living in my house, they are expected to obey the rules of my house and respect the tradition of my house. They can't start living in my house and saying "Well because I have been raised this way, so I suggest that you live with it".

Either the guest has to leave my house or respect my house traditions and norms.

Then why should it be different for countries?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Well I purposely avoided confrontation by saying following "Islam" because I do not believe Islam is so strict as to condemn people to hell on the basis of handshake.

Listen.

It's quite simple.

If someone starts living in my house, they are expected to obey the rules of my house and respect the tradition of my house. They can't start living in my house and saying "Well because I have been raised this way, so I suggest that you live with it".

Either the guest has to leave my house or respect my house traditions and norms.

Then why should it be different for countries?

1. Look I support the bold courageous Act of that Lady where she upheld her religious values (not cultural not arab values)

2. When Islam says you cannot shake hand with Namehrum than there is no If and But about it. It is not a rule to be followed in Islamic countries only.

3. Everything needs not to be equated to opening or closing of Hell's gate. Eventually good and bad will be weighed and Allah will decide a person's fate.

4. If one can avoid shaking hand fine. If one cannot avoid in his her indivisual capacity than it is fine aswell. But if one shakes hand than He She does not need to justify his her act by trying to mend Islam to prove his her position.

5. Every religious community should have complete religious freedom in any country. Integration should not mean leaving your religion aside and adapting culture which conflicts with your religion and religious values.

6. People keep paying guests in their homes who share kitchen and washroom with the owners. So if a Non Muslim family has rented a place to a muslim so does this mean He She has to adapt the owners culture ? Otherwise there is no hope for survival or having good terms ?

7. In terms of host and guests relationship or immigrants vs locals you have to see the overall picture.

If a Muslim living in Germany does not shake hand with Namehrum, does not hug/kiss, does not party, does not drink, does not eat Non halaal stuff yet he does not incite hate against other religions and communities, does not harm any person of the society in any way, earns his living, pays tax, obeys rules and regulations of State, loves the place which gave him shelter and work, is loyal to his country of which he is a national. Than is he bad for the country or society ? I don't think so.


I don't agree that if you are not willing to shake hand than stay in muslim or so called muslim State. This is a personal preference based on religious values and it should be respected.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Pathetic. Some girls take it too far. Destroying Islam with these ridiculous ideas.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Pathetic. Some girls take it too far. Destroying Islam with these ridiculous ideas.

How ?


Guide these people to the Islamic Norms and the right path.


Quote Quranic verses or Sahaa e Satta Ahadees to prove your point.


Let the message reach her and many others who follow same ideology and faith.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In private, do whatever you like.

But if you are an invited dinner guest, either use cutlery or politely decline the invitation.

And if you use your hands when eating alone but in public view - say with your family in a restaurant - be prepared to receive hostile looks.

It depends on what kind of restaurant. At the grill joints like Nando's they encourage you to use your hands. Try eating chicken wings with a knife and fork and you are going to be in for an inferior experience.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

If someone is so religious that she refuses to shake a man's hand then what is she doing in a mixed school in the first place surrounded by non-Mahram men? Why not follow the Shariah in its entirety?

 

[Varun]

If someone is so religious that she refuses to shake a man's hand then what is she doing in a mixed school in the first place surrounded by non-Mahram men? Why not follow the Shariah in its entirety?

Reminds me of Raj Thackeray's lovely children. In spite of all the Marathi Manoos hullabulloo, the two went to Bombay Scottish School, and chose to study a foreign language instead of Marathi. Hypocrites.

As for this girl, she knew refraining from a handshake would make the news and garner free publicity. Her going to an inferior, one-dimensional school wouldn't and would only hinder her progress through this game called life. Well played, in a way.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

If someone is so religious that she refuses to shake a man's hand then what is she doing in a mixed school in the first place surrounded by non-Mahram men? Why not follow the Shariah in its entirety?

Does Shariah prohibit a muslim women from working in an environment where there are Non-Mahrem Men ?

 

[Syed1]

If someone is so religious that she refuses to shake a man's hand then what is she doing in a mixed school in the first place surrounded by non-Mahram men? Why not follow the Shariah in its entirety?

There are many reasons to not shake ones hand, I won't shake someones hand who has been to the loo and then stepped out without washing his hand.

Am I breaking a law by not shaking his hand?