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Myth Busted: Pakistan DOES NOT need Babar and/or Rizwan to fire to get to 160

Suleiman

Suleiman

Senior T20I Player
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This was the crutch being used to justify Babar and Rizwan’s approach in t20s. That without them, we’d fall apart like a pack of cards.

Truth is, playing an anchor is very easy in t20s.

You don’t need 2 guys doing it.

Shan anchored the innings will everyone at the other end was swinging. Granted, Shadab and Haider went out to nothing strokes.


But the point stands. Ifti, and the bowlers + small cameo from Nawaz came to the party.

Rizwan and Babar are not leagues above the other batsmen of the lineup, including Shaheen, Rauf etc.

They’re simply lucky that they open and get to face the most deliveries.
 
It was busted ages ago

Only guys like [MENTION=21715]Zaz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=491]IMMY69[/MENTION] plus [MENTION=134362]hitthestump[/MENTION] defend this false notion religiously
 
Rana said:
It was busted ages ago

Only guys like [MENTION=21715]Zaz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=491]IMMY69[/MENTION] plus [MENTION=134362]hitthestump[/MENTION] defend this false notion religiously
Click to expand...

Today it’s official.

Tournament setting + India game = incredibly high pressure

Chance for both to justify what now seems like hyper inflated stats.

Both flop. Just like in Asia Cup finale.
 
[MENTION=141768]GudduBadmash[/MENTION] where are you my brother?
 
Sorry I thought myth was that we needed to hit 66/1 to get to a decent score?
 
You won't have other teams selecting two finger spinners on a pitch like this in Australia.
 
This was the myth created by Pak team management. Currently Rizwan is the 2nd most experienced Pak batsman in T20s after Babar if we see number of balls he has faced. He has faced total of 1921 balls in T20I in his 62 innings which is slightly lesser than total balls played by Shoaib Malik & Hafeez. Fakhar in comparison has faced total 1045 balls in T20I. If he can't rotate the strike from first over even after gaining so much experience, that means there is something wrong with his mindset / technique

The other batsmen such as Shan, Iftikhar, Khushdil, Asif, Haider has played less than 500 balls in their whole T20I career. The point here is after this world cup, Pak team management should allow other players to develop their game by giving them more chances at top order. No need for Baber & Rizwan to play every T20 game and against every team. Even if they want to play, they can come at no. 3 or 4
 
I don't want to be too hard on the boys after a heartbreaking defeat like that, but this opening pair man...that's Choke #5 in a year.

- SF vs AUS - both bat too slowly on a belter and leave us 10-15 below par.
- Asia Cup final vs SRL - one fails and the other bats so slowly leaving 70 to win from 30.
- Decider vs ENG - both fail to turn up.
- Tri-series final vs NZL - again bat too slowly and were bailed out by middle-order.
- Today vs IND - both batted abysmally in the PP with Rizwan looking like a tailender vs movement and bounce. The much maligned Shan and Iftikhar got us to a competitive total.

They can score soft runs against second string attacks in meaningless T20I bilaterals (which only PAK treat like WC finals) and fool some fans with their ICC rankings, but they haven't turned up in any of these big matches.

I recognise it wasn't easy upfront with the lateral movement, and IND's openers struggled too. I'm not forgetting their feats like 152-0 or Rizwan's 71 in Asia Cup vs IND. However it's a pairing that's cost us time and again, and our management are too stubborn to split them up.
 
There’s only one match in tournaments Babar and Rizwan have done will against India last year other than that it’s been failure after failure it’s hard to believe how they keep failing to make a winning contribution whenever teams are playing their best bowlers.

The number 1 and number 2 ranked batsmen even Kamran Akmal was a success in T20 knockouts a few times there’s a good chance even Sharjeel would be more consistent in big matches.

:moyo
 
[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] maybe you have something to say about this here? This is the correct platform to voice your opinion on this subject….





(Not that it makes any difference)
 
Asif321 said:
Babar or Rizwan could only dream of innings like kohli played .
Click to expand...

In all honesty not many current or past players can pull off an innings like that. So it's unfair to call out Babar and Rizwan against this legendary innings. Babar and Rizwan has lifted the monkey off the back by defeating India in previous WC and in this match we outperformed our own reach given our primary players did not perform at all. So that's a positive that without Babar and Rizwan we were still very competitive.
 
Instead of the endless sloggers in the middle, Pak needs to go with another pace bowler. Only two of Nawaz, Asif, Haider should play. Can't have three pinch hitters in one side
 
Exactly Rizwan 3(12) is more solid an evidence than Nawaz final over for our defeat we scored 10-15 runs less thanks to top order heck even Shan 52 (42) is not ideal too many players adjusted in wrong formats
 
Markhor said:
I don't want to be too hard on the boys after a heartbreaking defeat like that, but this opening pair man...that's Choke #5 in a year.

- SF vs AUS - both bat too slowly on a belter and leave us 10-15 below par.
- Asia Cup final vs SRL - one fails and the other bats so slowly leaving 70 to win from 30.
- Decider vs ENG - both fail to turn up.
- Tri-series final vs NZL - again bat too slowly and were bailed out by middle-order.
- Today vs IND - both batted abysmally in the PP with Rizwan looking like a tailender vs movement and bounce. The much maligned Shan and Iftikhar got us to a competitive total.

They can score soft runs against second string attacks in meaningless T20I bilaterals (which only PAK treat like WC finals) and fool some fans with their ICC rankings, but they haven't turned up in any of these big matches.

I recognise it wasn't easy upfront with the lateral movement, and IND's openers struggled too. I'm not forgetting their feats like 152-0 or Rizwan's 71 in Asia Cup vs IND. However it's a pairing that's cost us time and again, and our management are too stubborn to split them up.
Click to expand...

I guess Shan could open and Babar could come in one down, would it drastically change their fortunes?

There were some big tactical blunders bowling Nawaz at the end (we didn’t learn from Ajmal did we) and lack of 4th pace option on this pitch
 
We can moan and moan on it but the opportunity lost and major part of it is not on field performance its the tactical blunders which has let us done Saqlain and Moyo better wakeup
 
Waiting for Rizwan to dance against SA , and also probably against any decent pace , swing and bounce, because he was struggling even against AFG..

This tournament would set him back
 
shaz619 said:
I guess Shan could open and Babar could come in one down, would it drastically change their fortunes?

There were some big tactical blunders bowling Nawaz at the end (we didn’t learn from Ajmal did we) and lack of 4th pace option on this pitch
Click to expand...

It was close defeat against not so good Indian team... They deserved to lose badly against top teams when they continue play Asif ali and Khusdil Shah (these two are nothing cricketers playing so many games)...

Shan scratched his way to his 50 not a flawless inns but managed to hang in there.
 
ask_analyse_act said:
That was not a good ball lol.. He choked off of a big match pressure, and played it cross batted in his first ball..

MCG hit through the line , shortest boundaries are damn straight
Click to expand...

Same thing happened against Farooqi in Asia cup

He clearly has a problem against left arm seam
 
ask_analyse_act said:
That was not a good ball lol.. He choked off of a big match pressure, and played it cross batted in his first ball..

MCG hit through the line , shortest boundaries are damn straight
Click to expand...

The ball was nearly the same that SSA bowled to get Rohit at the last WC.
 
Ind should be ashamed, they let Masood Ifty asif haider shadab Nawaz score 160 against them!! I rate Danny Morrison & Courtney Walsh better than these so called batsman.

Pandya - look at the guys celebration when he got Haider out.
 
This has been proved time and again.

Rizwan and Babar play for averages.
 
AAli98 said:
Ind should be ashamed, they let Masood Ifty asif haider shadab Nawaz score 160 against them!! I rate Danny Morrison & Courtney Walsh better than these so called batsman.

Pandya - look at the guys celebration when he got Haider out.
Click to expand...

India should indeed be ashamed. But not for the reasons you mentioned. They let Shadab get away. They let Naseem get away. Naseem is not as good as Rauf. He should have been smashed considering they smashed Shaheen but for some reason they gave Naseem a lot of respect. Shadab should have been attacked as well. It was unnecessary pressure at the end.
 
rhony said:
India should indeed be ashamed. But not for the reasons you mentioned. They let Shadab get away. They let Naseem get away. Naseem is not as good as Rauf. He should have been smashed considering they smashed Shaheen but for some reason they gave Naseem a lot of respect. Shadab should have been attacked as well. It was unnecessary pressure at the end.
Click to expand...
Paks bowling is up there with the best.. just ask NZ biased commentators.

But Sharma **** his pants whilst facing Afridi half volleys being tapped back.
 
Asif321 said:
Babar or Rizwan could only dream of innings like kohli played .
Click to expand...

The thing is, its not just Babar and rizwan -- most in the world would not be able to play an innings like this that he did. Thats what makes it special.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Who has been given chances to open consistently without accountability for last 12 months?
Click to expand...

They have done well.

Beat India in the 2021 WC, took pakistan to semis. When was the last time pakistan reached knockouts of a T20 WC?

Pakistan reached the finals of Asia Cup too this year.
 
cricketjoshila said:
They have done well.

Beat India in the 2021 WC, took pakistan to semis. When was the last time pakistan reached knockouts of a T20 WC?

Pakistan reached the finals of Asia Cup too this year.
Click to expand...

The match against India was the only one they did well in which other one in the T20 World Cup and Asia Cup did they make a winning contribution?
 
Shan played worse inning tha. Rizwan or Babar would normally play,and we now usung his inning to justify need to change openers. PP was even much lower. It is only Pakistan included a playerlike Shan that they were able to play 20 overs, without any these top 3 be bowled out well before their alloted 20 overs.
 
The only myth busted today is that Pakistan does not need 8 batsmen. Asif is just there as a passenger to hit 3-4 sixes and we have seen that Haris, Shaheen, Naseem and even Dahani is able to hit those sixes.
 
These type of myths are spread by people with mediocre mentality who have no desire to see their team improve.

“We won’t make 30 without Misbah”

“We won’t score 60 if babar and rizwan get out early”

“If babar and Riz don’t play it’s the end of the world”

All pathetic statements
 
[MENTION=139316]daytrader[/MENTION]

Maybe you can also share some insight? Or are you waiting for Babar and Rizwan to score 50-0 in 8 over’s against Zimbabwe to tell us they are elite players?
 
PakPremi said:
Shan played worse inning tha. Rizwan or Babar would normally play,and we now usung his inning to justify need to change openers. PP was even much lower. It is only Pakistan included a playerlike Shan that they were able to play 20 overs, without any these top 3 be bowled out well before their alloted 20 overs.
Click to expand...

Shan is a maskeen guy

He knows he isn’t good enough. He does what he is told to the best of his ability.
 
No doubt Shan played too slow but you must consider the fact that Pak lost two early wickets and he had to build the innings with Iftikhar. By the way this was Shan's 11th inning in his short T20I career and probably one of the most high pressure game he might have played in his entire career. On the contrary Babar has played 88 T20 innings (faced 2493 balls) and Rizwan has played 63 T20 innings (faced 1933 balls). Even after playing so much T20I cricket Riz-Bab has made a habit of playing defensive cricket in first 10 overs that includes power play as well. They can't play with this kind of defeatist approach forever and later claim our middle order is weak.
 
Rana said:
[MENTION=139316]daytrader[/MENTION]

Maybe you can also share some insight? Or are you waiting for Babar and Rizwan to score 50-0 in 8 over’s against Zimbabwe to tell us they are elite players?
Click to expand...

They are elite players who were done in by hard luck. Batting first in an India/Pak T20 game is always tough. Besides Shan did the same job the openers usually do.

The myth that was busted here was that you need to go hard right from the beginning. We were only 60 in the first 10 and scored another 100 in the last. India started worse and had only 45 in the first 10.
 
daytrader said:
They are elite players who were done in by hard luck. Batting first in an India/Pak T20 game is always tough. Besides Shan did the same job the openers usually do.

The myth that was busted here was that you need to go hard right from the beginning. We were only 60 in the first 10 and scored another 100 in the last. India started worse and had only 45 in the first 10.
Click to expand...

Rizwan looked like a tailender with the movement and bounce. That's bad technique not bad luck.
 
Looks and performances are two different things. Rizwan has performed against all and in all conditions.
 
Babar and Rizwan definitely need to up the ante at the start, they are the worst opening pair in the world for powerplay overs.

Ifthikar,Shadab, Nawaz, Masood have shown thay they can make runs and that too at a better tempo than the opening pair.

Ideally Babar should play at no. 3, with Fakhar and Rizwan as openers.
 
Lol we were lucky to get to 160. Shan had 9 lives yesterday. So much luck in his favour. That wont happen so often. We are really lacking Haris Sohail and Sohaib Maqsood in this line up.
 
Tailenders helped us to get there warna Shadab Haider aur Asif ne to marwa hi diya tha
 
shaz619 said:
I guess Shan could open and Babar could come in one down, would it drastically change their fortunes?

There were some big tactical blunders bowling Nawaz at the end (we didn’t learn from Ajmal did we) and lack of 4th pace option on this pitch
Click to expand...

Babar seems hellbent on opening. They wouldn't even try a different combination during the ENG series (except one match where M Haris came in) or dead rubbers in NZL tri-series.

Whereas previous managements would mindlessly chop and change, this management is very slow to adjust. They finally promoted Shadab and Nawaz only after seeing Asif and Khushdil fail 100 times. Both Asif and Khushdil still somehow retained their WC places.

I'm all for giving our players enough chances to recover from bad form but not when they're actively costing us matches. We saw what happened with Hasan Ali, and Azhar Ali in Tests.
 
Markhor said:
Babar seems hellbent on opening. They wouldn't even try a different combination during the ENG series (except one match where M Haris came in) or dead rubbers in NZL tri-series.

Whereas previous managements would mindlessly chop and change, this management is very slow to adjust. They finally promoted Shadab and Nawaz only after seeing Asif and Khushdil fail 100 times. Both Asif and Khushdil still somehow retained their WC places.

I'm all for giving our players enough chances to recover from bad form but not when they're actively costing us matches. We saw what happened with Hasan Ali, and Azhar Ali in Tests.
Click to expand...

But just like every other management we’ve had, this one only cares about statistics- without any context.

Starting with the chief selector “why would I break up the best opening pair in the world????”

When it’s been the opening pair since the final game of the England series and the Asia Cup final that has done more harm than good - and it’s thanks to the sudden improvement of the middle and lower order that we’re still putting competitive totals.

Zero foresight and strategy. They screwed up by being too rigid with the opening pair and then screwed up by not playing 4 pacers on a pitch that heavily favored pace bowling.
 
Markhor said:
Babar seems hellbent on opening. They wouldn't even try a different combination during the ENG series (except one match where M Haris came in) or dead rubbers in NZL tri-series.

Whereas previous managements would mindlessly chop and change, this management is very slow to adjust. They finally promoted Shadab and Nawaz only after seeing Asif and Khushdil fail 100 times. Both Asif and Khushdil still somehow retained their WC places.

I'm all for giving our players enough chances to recover from bad form but not when they're actively costing us matches. We saw what happened with Hasan Ali, and Azhar Ali in Tests.
Click to expand...

Because that gives him cushion. He can take time. If he comes at 3 or 4. And the openers have had a few overs to play, he will not get that cushion.
 
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