Naveed Akram, the surviving suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at Bondi Beach in Sydney, charged with 15 counts of murder [Update@ Post 965]

[DeadlyVenom]

That so-called sensible Pakistani Muslim guy was talking rubbish. In reality, these issues are rarely discussed at all not in public forums, not in mosques, not in community spaces, and not even in private conversations. When the subject does come up, it is usually shut down quickly, deflected, or reframed as an external conspiracy rather than examined honestly.

Instead of meaningful self-reflection, much of the Pakistani Muslim community operates from a deeply rooted victim mindset. Problems are blamed on the West, foreign intelligence agencies, Islamophobia, or political enemies, while internal failures such as extremist interpretations, poor religious education, are ignored or outright denied. This mentality discourages accountability and makes honest discussion feel like betrayal rather than responsibility.

As a result, anyone who raises uncomfortable questions is often labelled a traitor, an agent, or someone “helping the enemy,” which further silences debate. This culture of defensiveness prevents genuine reform and allows the same patterns to repeat themselves. Until the community moves beyond victimhood and accepts that internal criticism is not an attack but a necessity, these problems will continue to fester rather than be resolved.

My experience has been completely the opposite. Not saying yours isn't true. I just have experienced differently.

Although, One thing i think we need to stop saying is - " terrorism has no religion".

It doesn't. But we need to ask ourselves why its mainly Muslims blowing themselves up, and I do believe we still bury our heads in the sand a bit on this particular point that does as you say require some internal criticism.

 

[Red-Indian]

Reluctant Fundamentalist is based on a book by Mohsin Hamid - A Pakistani writer.

I think attitudes have changed since your friend mentioned it a decade ago. There is tremendous work carried out, across communities. Muslim community is engaged and working across all sectors of society to increase tolerance.

Online, you will only see the loudmouths on both sides, but on the ground, sensible people know that it is in both sides' best interests to work together to combat this.

Today it is a badge of honour for a mosque to report someone for extremism ( it happens, I have seen it firsthand), and most groups are happy to point the finger at other Muslim ideologies as being the culprit ( mainly they blame Salafis, and Salafis then say the extremists are not representative of them).

Finally, The underlying ideology is not always religious despite the outside garment being religious. If you were to study deeply, the motiviations of the Kashmiri Doctors, and these guys killing in Australia would be quite different. They just happen to be Muslims, but it is rare that they are fighting a purely religious cause. There is an underlying political reason for it, which is usually stronger than the religious motive.

Wasn't a friend just a forum acquaintance - probably why we were able to talk openly. This stuff is impossibly difficult in person.

I agree and think you have to draw a line between
- Political terrorism (yes I call it that) where the ones themselves affected - the Irish, Sri Lankan Tamils, Kashmiris, Balochis, Palestinians are looking to fight back even if sometimes at misguided targets and
- Ideological terrorism...now mostly religious that too Muslim (though it's had other forms in the past) where people are murdering for a cause they've only heard about and been indoctrinated into

The first will always be with us to some extent. The second is the one that I believe is solvable and I'm glad you're seeing positive movement there.

 

[Major]

Hundreds of thousands are weeping daily around the world. Australians are no more special than others. I've discussed this while you glee when others who you dont like are murdered.

Pathetic as usual

 

[emranabbas]

My experience has been completely the opposite. Not saying yours isn't true. I just have experienced differently.

Although, One thing i think we need to stop saying is - " terrorism has no religion".

It doesn't. But we need to ask ourselves why its mainly Muslims blowing themselves up, and I do believe we still bury our heads in the sand a bit on this particular point that does as you say require some internal criticism.

You already answered your own question in your earlier post at its core, this comes down to the Salafi interpretation of Islam. Over the past 20 to 30 years, a persistent narrative has been pushed that people’s existing understanding of Islam is wrong and that the “correct” version is something entirely different. Ongoing disputes such as moon-sighting arguments over Eid and controversies around Eid Milad-un-Nabi clearly illustrate this shift and these are just minor things ive mentioned. When people are repeatedly told that their long-held religious practices are incorrect or illegitimate, it slowly erodes their confidence in their own faith and tradition. As a result, many are quietly steered away from traditional interpretations and drawn toward stricter, more extreme and possibly incorrect versions of Islam without even realising it.

This is often reinforced with added rhetoric that frames the West as the enemy, creating an “us versus them” mindset. This kind of mirch-masala narrative is exactly what Imran Khan has been promoting. You can see the effects plainly: many of his followers are openly defending this attack and rushing to label it an inside job, rather than condemning violence or engaging in honest self-reflection.

@Major

 

[Major]

For those of you who do not know @Technics 1210

He used to work at night clubs......

And here is talking about muslims and zionist conspiracies...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You, @KingKhanWC , @aboveandbeyond , @Technics 1210 and @The Bald Eagle so far.

@Cpt. Rishwat is yet to make an appearance.

I responded in this thread yesterday, have not had a chance to read up at all today, very busy with work. Is there something you want me to address specifically, I doubt I'll have time to read every response.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I am speaking this with full conviction, resident BJP posters have ZERO sympathy with the victims killed, They are just concerned with the identity and religion of the victim so they could bash Muslims or Pakistan in case if that turns out to be true. Otherwise this thread never would have crossed 15 comments. And we actually have similar threads with poor indian contributions

 

[sweep_shot]

I am speaking this with full conviction, resident BJP posters have ZERO sympathy with the victims killed, They are just concerned with the identity and religion of the victim so they could bash Muslims or Pakistan in case if that turns out to be true. Otherwise this thread never would have crossed 15 comments. And we actually have similar threads with poor indian contributions

Agree.

This is proven because they don't make posts when gun violence happens in USA. But, since there is a Muslim angle here, they are suddenly very active.

 

[Major]

I am speaking this with full conviction, resident BJP posters have ZERO sympathy with the victims killed, They are just concerned with the identity and religion of the victim so they could bash Muslims or Pakistan in case if that turns out to be true. Otherwise this thread never would have crossed 15 comments. And we actually have similar threads with poor indian contributions

And what about the british pakistani posters?

They are justifying this with their taxi driver level conspiracies.

Its one thing to not care, but to comment on the thread and call it rubbish and insult those that died...

 

[RexRex]

That so-called sensible Pakistani Muslim guy was talking rubbish. In reality, these issues are rarely discussed at all not in public forums, not in mosques, not in community spaces, and not even in private conversations. When the subject does come up, it is usually shut down quickly, deflected, or reframed as an external conspiracy rather than examined honestly.

Instead of meaningful self-reflection, much of the Pakistani Muslim community operates from a deeply rooted victim mindset. Problems are blamed on the West, foreign intelligence agencies, Islamophobia, or political enemies, while internal failures such as extremist interpretations, poor religious education, are ignored or outright denied. This mentality discourages accountability and makes honest discussion feel like betrayal rather than responsibility.

As a result, anyone who raises uncomfortable questions is often labelled a traitor, an agent, or someone “helping the enemy,” which further silences debate. This culture of defensiveness prevents genuine reform and allows the same patterns to repeat themselves. Until the community moves beyond victimhood and accepts that internal criticism is not an attack but a necessity, these problems will continue to fester rather than be resolved.

Good observations.

We see this reality manifested on this forum as well. I'm sure a lot of pakistanis felt uneasy watching the 3 britpaks on here subtly justify this shooting or call it a false-flag, and yet most remained silent. I think Major was quite vocal about his disgust so credit to him. And to you as well. I noticed DeadlyVenom wasn't happy with it either but he refused to directly tag or quote the culprits and hash it out with them.

These kind of socratic debates are missing from within the Pakistani community, where people should be regularly challenging each other's assumptions. It is very necessary for healthy societies to function.

Socratic method - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And what about the british pakistani posters?

They are justifying this with their taxi driver level conspiracies.

Its one thing to not care, but to comment on the thread and call it rubbish and insult those that died...

No one should be justifying any terror attack. I have not read the thread today, but I would be surprised if anyone has done that. This terror attack only suits Netenyahu's agenda, I said this yesterday as well. Why would any right minded British Pakistani support it?

 

[Varun]

No one should be justifying any terror attack. I have not read the thread today, but I would be surprised if anyone has done that. This terror attack only suits Netenyahu's agenda, I said this yesterday as well. Why would any right minded British Pakistani support it?

Prepare to be very surprised then.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

is yet to make an appearance.

Relay torch has been passed, now it’s his time to continue the deflection.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Don't get to big for your boots wanna be wombat. Dare you to attend Right wing rallies and see your reality!

Meh, still rather not be a camel cowboy like you son

 

[Bhaijaan]

I am speaking this with full conviction, resident BJP posters have ZERO sympathy with the victims killed, They are just concerned with the identity and religion of the victim so they could bash Muslims or Pakistan in case if that turns out to be true. Otherwise this thread never would have crossed 15 comments. And we actually have similar threads with poor indian contributions

Sad to admit but this seems to be the case.

Although it’s clearly not me. I’m above these things allegedly. But there’s truth in what you said and it’s a shame.

 

[Varun]

For those of you who do not know @Technics 1210

He used to work at night clubs......

And here is talking about muslims and zionist conspiracies...

To be fair, there's nothing wrong with that profession if it afforded him an honest living.

My generalization of "as out of place in a pub in London as in a gymkhana in Lahore" might be off, in his case.

More power to him and his drink!

 

[Major]

To be fair, there's nothing wrong with that profession if it afforded him an honest living.

My generalization of "as out of place in a pub in London as in a gymkhana in Lahore" might be off, in his case.

More power to him and his drink!

I agree nothing wrong for a normal person.

But a person who gives lectures and talks about muslims being better and how their is a jewish conspiracy, its hypocritical

 

[sweep_shot]

What the attackers did was wrong. I condemn 100%. No if and but.

I hope Islamophobes will also condemn when Christians do mass shootings in USA or when Indians harm/kill minoirites in India. I don't see them condemn those.

 

[Varun]

I agree nothing wrong for a normal person.

But a person who gives lectures and talks about muslims being better and how their is a jewish conspiracy, its hypocritical

Hehe, still, I'm seeing him in a new light. It's approaching 6PM UK time now. He must be getting set to pour the first glasses for his patrons!

If I ever visit London I'll be sure to stop by wherever he works.

 

[emranabbas]

I agree nothing wrong for a normal person.

But a person who gives lectures and talks about muslims being better and how their is a jewish conspiracy, its hypocritical

What makes this even more hypocritical is that many of these same people choose to live in Western countries, benefit from their freedoms, security, welfare systems, and opportunities, yet openly express hatred toward the very societies that host them.

They enjoy the right to free speech, education, healthcare, and economic stability, while simultaneously chanting slogans like “death to the West” or promoting narratives that portray the West as an enemy.

This contradiction exposes a lack of intellectual honesty rejecting Western values in words while relying on Western systems in practice.

If the West were truly as evil as they claim, it raises the obvious question of why they continue to live there, benefit from it, and use its freedoms to spread hostility against it.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hehe, still, I'm seeing him in a new light. It's approaching 6PM UK time now. He must be getting set to pour the first glasses for his patrons!

If I ever visit London I'll be sure to stop by wherever he works.

Going by description this guy kinda giving the Kiwein a Singh uncle vibes.

That’s likely Sardar version of @KingKhanWC

@Major @emranabbas @Varun

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Prepare to be very surprised then.

Maybe you can provide a couple of quotes or point me to which posters have done this, and I mean specifically justified the terror attack.

 

[Varun]

Maybe you can provide a couple of quotes or point me to which posters have done this, and I mean specifically justified the terror attack.

Here are a couple:

One day these Western/White nations will understand that bombing Muslims countries illegally and for fun will have reprecussions.

RSS, Zionists and far right who attack our faith will be treated like scum they are

If you give it , be prepared to take it .none of you would dare say your bs to anyone’s face

 

[Marshland]

What makes this even more hypocritical is that many of these same people choose to live in Western countries, benefit from their freedoms, security, welfare systems, and opportunities, yet openly express hatred toward the very societies that host them.

They enjoy the right to free speech, education, healthcare, and economic stability, while simultaneously chanting slogans like “death to the West” or promoting narratives that portray the West as an enemy.

This contradiction exposes a lack of intellectual honesty rejecting Western values in words while relying on Western systems in practice.

If the West were truly as evil as they claim, it raises the obvious question of why they continue to live there, benefit from it, and use its freedoms to spread hostility against it.

Well said. The freedoms they are accorded here are not found in the neck of the woods they come from. And yet they don't appreciate it and evolve; they merely want to impose Shariah into our societies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Here are a couple:

Neither of those specifically justify this particular terror attack. Or even any ISIS type terror attack which is what I was expecting.

 

[Patriot]

What makes this even more hypocritical is that many of these same people choose to live in Western countries, benefit from their freedoms, security, welfare systems, and opportunities, yet openly express hatred toward the very societies that host them.

They enjoy the right to free speech, education, healthcare, and economic stability, while simultaneously chanting slogans like “death to the West” or promoting narratives that portray the West as an enemy.

This contradiction exposes a lack of intellectual honesty rejecting Western values in words while relying on Western systems in practice.

If the West were truly as evil as they claim, it raises the obvious question of why they continue to live there, benefit from it, and use its freedoms to spread hostility against it.

There is nothing wrong with being critical of your country’s foreign policy. A lot of Muslims living in the west have the right to be critical.

 

[Rana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2000592959302242565

 

[ahsan17]

What makes this even more hypocritical is that many of these same people choose to live in Western countries, benefit from their freedoms, security, welfare systems, and opportunities, yet openly express hatred toward the very societies that host them.

They enjoy the right to free speech, education, healthcare, and economic stability, while simultaneously chanting slogans like “death to the West” or promoting narratives that portray the West as an enemy.

This contradiction exposes a lack of intellectual honesty rejecting Western values in words while relying on Western systems in practice.

If the West were truly as evil as they claim, it raises the obvious question of why they continue to live there, benefit from it, and use its freedoms to spread hostility against it.

This is a simplistic take, and while I agree to parts of it, at the end of the day you are over simplifying certain things.

1. One can appreciate the freedoms offered in western countries while criticizing invasions or genocides that have been perpetrated, funded, by the said countries or in which they were complicit. People on the political left have been saying this for decades. There's no contradiction here.
2. In many cases, the said invasions or genocides destabilize countries to the point where a huge percent of that country moves to a Western country, however the people that moved are not happy with the fact that Western countries caused the instability in the first place.

Btw, I am just explaining the cause and effects. I am not trying to suggest what is wrong and what is right, or what I want to happen.

 

[JaDed]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2000592959302242565

Australian Agencies has a done a disservice here, the journalist asked them directly where is his visa from as the father still has only resident permit.. and they have not revealed it yet..

 

[JaDed]

The nationality of the shooters only matters to South Asians across the world.. and no one else

Edit: Only Indians Pakistanis and Bangladeshis , other south Asians don’t care.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Nail, Hammer, Coffin.


They hate the west but won't move back for better lives, back to Pakistan or Bangladesh or wherever they came from.

Comprehension issues i see. The foreign policies of the West have to be condemned, with majority of the natives agreeing.

 

[JaDed]

The policies of West should be condemned but no way are they related to this particular shootout.. in any case if father ends up with whatever nationality of South Asia Pakistani or Indian both aren’t directly affected by Western invasion.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The nationality of the shooters only matters to South Asians across the world.. and no one else

Edit: Only Indians Pakistanis and Bangladeshis , other south Asians don’t care.

@Bhaijaan has been pacing up and down and refreshing his screen since the news broke.

We are going to get a few threads on the failures of Pakistan, or how Indian Muslims can't be trusted depending on the outcome.

 

[JaDed]

@Bhaijaan has been pacing up and down and refreshing his screen since the news broke.

We are going to get a few threads on the failures of Pakistan, or how Indian Muslims can't be trusted depending on the outcome.

Probably true, but I can assure you whichever nationality FF7 bhai is blaming this on Indians.
I doubt the families effected give a crap about the nationality.

I also can’t imagine what the Italian Mother must be feeling she has gone on record to say those firearms don’t belong to her son, she probably can’t imagine and isn’t able to comprehend.. but you can see the issue: (the friends part)


According to police, the father and son had told family members they were heading to Jervis Bay on a fishing trip. “He rings me up [on Sunday] and said, ‘Mum, I just went for a swim. I went scuba diving. We’re going…to eat now, and then this morning, and we’re going to stay home now because it’s very hot,’” Verena recalled.

Speaking to reporters outside the family’s home in Bonnyrigg in southwest Sydney, Verena described her son as quiet, disciplined and non-violent. “He doesn’t have a firearm. He doesn’t even go out. He doesn’t mix around with friends. He doesn’t drink, he doesn’t smoke, he doesn’t go to bad places,” she told The Sydney Morning Herald.

 

[RexRex]

This is a simplistic take, and while I agree to parts of it, at the end of the day you are over simplifying certain things.

1. One can appreciate the freedoms offered in western countries while criticizing invasions or genocides that have been perpetrated, funded, by the said countries or in which they were complicit. People on the political left have been saying this for decades. There's no contradiction here.
2. In many cases, the said invasions or genocides destabilize countries to the point where a huge percent of that country moves to a Western country, however the people that moved are not happy with the fact that Western countries caused the instability in the first place.

Btw, I am just explaining the cause and effects. I am not trying to suggest what is wrong and what is right, or what I want to happen.

I don't think anyone has said the foreign policies of the West shouldn't be criticised by muslims. But if people are going to bring it up in the context of this thread and fixate on it, it does seem like a subtle justifying of what happened in Bondi..

 

[HalBass9]

Let’s get this straight.

Overseas Pakistanis are being dragged for criticizing policies of a government they’re legal taxpayers of, while the very same people used to call any Pakistani who questioned Pakistan’s dictators a yahoodi conspiracy. You can’t hold both positions without contradicting yourself.

In a democracy, the right to criticize doesn’t disappear once you cross a border. If you’re a citizen, you have every right to question government policy. That’s literally the point of democracy, it’s not conditional on convenience or blind loyalty.

And this criticism isn’t coming from some fringe group. These policies are being openly condemned across the world now, not just by the Global South, but by major governments, institutions, and civil society, to the point they have to buy social media because they’ve led to real harm and loss of life. That’s not opinion, that’s reality.

So when people try to label this as hypocrisy, it’s not an argument, it’s deflection. You can’t celebrate dissent in one case and demonize it in another unless your principles change based on who’s being criticized.

And if some folks get bent out of shape whenever criticism isn’t wrapped in praise, that explains a lot. Democracies are built on accountability, not worship. When criticism feels like an attack, it usually means scrutiny isn’t something you’re used to.

This isn’t hypocrisy. It’s consistency.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Probably true, but I can assure you whichever nationality FF7 bhai is blaming this on Indians.
I doubt the families effected give a crap about the nationality.

I also can’t imagine what the Italian Mother must be feeling she has gone on record to say those firearms don’t belong to her son, she probably can’t imagine and isn’t able to comprehend.. but you can see the issue: (the friends part)


According to police, the father and son had told family members they were heading to Jervis Bay on a fishing trip. “He rings me up [on Sunday] and said, ‘Mum, I just went for a swim. I went scuba diving. We’re going…to eat now, and then this morning, and we’re going to stay home now because it’s very hot,’” Verena recalled.

Speaking to reporters outside the family’s home in Bonnyrigg in southwest Sydney, Verena described her son as quiet, disciplined and non-violent. “He doesn’t have a firearm. He doesn’t even go out. He doesn’t mix around with friends. He doesn’t drink, he doesn’t smoke, he doesn’t go to bad places,” she told The Sydney Morning Herald.

@Romali_rotti has provided many thousand posts on Italian Ammas and their Pupo sons, albeit under different circumstances, so maybe he can help her out.

 

[Major]

What makes this even more hypocritical is that many of these same people choose to live in Western countries, benefit from their freedoms, security, welfare systems, and opportunities, yet openly express hatred toward the very societies that host them.

They enjoy the right to free speech, education, healthcare, and economic stability, while simultaneously chanting slogans like “death to the West” or promoting narratives that portray the West as an enemy.

This contradiction exposes a lack of intellectual honesty rejecting Western values in words while relying on Western systems in practice.

If the West were truly as evil as they claim, it raises the obvious question of why they continue to live there, benefit from it, and use its freedoms to spread hostility against it.

And living in UK that made israel lol and paying them taxes

 

[RexRex]

Let’s get this straight.

Overseas Pakistanis are being dragged for criticizing policies of a government they’re legal taxpayers of, while the very same people used to call any Pakistani who questioned Pakistan’s dictators a yahoodi conspiracy. You can’t hold both positions without contradicting yourself.

In a democracy, the right to criticize doesn’t disappear once you cross a border. If you’re a citizen, you have every right to question government policy. That’s literally the point of democracy, it’s not conditional on convenience or blind loyalty.

And this criticism isn’t coming from some fringe group. These policies are being openly condemned across the world now, not just by the Global South, but by major governments, institutions, and civil society, to the point they have to buy social media because they’ve led to real harm and loss of life. That’s not opinion, that’s reality.

So when people try to label this as hypocrisy, it’s not an argument, it’s deflection. You can’t celebrate dissent in one case and demonize it in another unless your principles change based on who’s being criticized.

And if some folks get bent out of shape whenever criticism isn’t wrapped in praise, that explains a lot. Democracies are built on accountability, not worship. When criticism feels like an attack, it usually means scrutiny isn’t something you’re used to.

This isn’t hypocrisy. It’s consistency.

^ The gypsy-hater has spoken.

 

[HalBass9]

And living in UK that made israel lol and paying them taxes

In 2025, Pakistan has paid around 500M USD in interest. Every Pakistani who paid tax probably had to contribute to it.

 

[emranabbas]

Let’s get this straight.

Overseas Pakistanis are being dragged for criticizing policies of a government they’re legal taxpayers of, while the very same people used to call any Pakistani who questioned Pakistan’s dictators a yahoodi conspiracy. You can’t hold both positions without contradicting yourself.

In a democracy, the right to criticize doesn’t disappear once you cross a border. If you’re a citizen, you have every right to question government policy. That’s literally the point of democracy, it’s not conditional on convenience or blind loyalty.

And this criticism isn’t coming from some fringe group. These policies are being openly condemned across the world now, not just by the Global South, but by major governments, institutions, and civil society, to the point they have to buy social media because they’ve led to real harm and loss of life. That’s not opinion, that’s reality.

So when people try to label this as hypocrisy, it’s not an argument, it’s deflection. You can’t celebrate dissent in one case and demonize it in another unless your principles change based on who’s being criticized.

And if some folks get bent out of shape whenever criticism isn’t wrapped in praise, that explains a lot. Democracies are built on accountability, not worship. When criticism feels like an attack, it usually means scrutiny isn’t something you’re used to.

This isn’t hypocrisy. It’s consistency.

Mr Hally Bally,

You can’t sit on the internet portraying the West as the enemy of Pakistan and Muslims, and trying to justify terrorist attacks in western ciuntries, while comfortably living in a Western country yourself.

 

[Patriot]

I don't think anyone has said the foreign policies of the West shouldn't be criticised by muslims. But if people are going to bring it up in the context of this thread and fixate on it, it does seem like a subtle justifying of what happened in Bondi..

lol what. You are accusing people of justifying a terrorist attack because they have said that criticising their government’s foreign policy is ok!

Bit rich coming from the guy who was also judging people for not disassociating themselves from a Muslim committing it and yet who has not condemned the genocide in Gaza himself.

 

[Major]

In 2025, Pakistan has paid around 500M USD in interest. Every Pakistani who paid tax probably had to contribute to it.

Pakistan did not form Israel. Uk did

 

[straighttalk]

Why is it ok in your eyes to kill tens of thousands of people, including children, without any trial, based on a loose connection with Hamas?

If you are willing to give Israel excuses for this mass murder of children, then you should be willing to accept that Hamas can make those same excuses for why they murdered people on October 7.

What the Israelis have done in Gaza is inhumane, and it is a sad reflection on the mindset of people like you that you think it is an appropriate use of your time to justify it, downplay it and celebrate it.

Let me explain the fallacy in your logic

Islamic alqaeeda kills civilians in USA..USA carpet bombs terrorists protected in Afghanistan.

Pakistan protects and shelters every terrorist in the world..USA kills Osama under pak army protection.

Conclusion USA is bad.

Let jem hm etc kills civilians in india...India bombs Paksitani terrorists... conclusion India bad

Hamas attacks Israel and kills 1000s and hold hundreds hostages . Then use civilians as shield.
So what would Israel do. Forgive the disease called Islam.

Islam is a sick idealogy .. not all muslims but enough to bring your religion into disrepute... So if you go and kill civilians...you will be targeted by rest of the civilized world. If you fight openly no civilian will be harmed...but if you try to hide among civilians and then cry genocide... I can feel bad for the civilians and really regret it but won't hold Israel responsible . It is the fault of hamas alone that Palestinians are dying. They started it and they are using civilians as shield. I am so glad to see the hundreds of the hamas hezbollah and others getting slaughtered..again the terrorists not the civilians..so don't misquote me. This disease needs to be eradicated for the better ment of peaceful Muslims.

 

[straighttalk]

Why is it ok in your eyes to kill tens of thousands of people, including children, without any trial, based on a loose connection with Hamas?

If you are willing to give Israel excuses for this mass murder of children, then you should be willing to accept that Hamas can make those same excuses for why they murdered people on October 7.

What the Israelis have done in Gaza is inhumane, and it is a sad reflection on the mindset of people like you that you think it is an appropriate use of your time to justify it, downplay it and celebrate it.

Also Israel is targeting Hamas..Hamas is using the civilians as shield...so let's not confuse facts with narrative...yes Israel could say we forgive the hamas for killing 1000s of civilians and holding women and children hostage...why would they.

 

[RexRex]

Bit rich coming from the guy who was also judging people for not disassociating themselves from a Muslim committing it and yet who has not condemned the genocide in Gaza himself.

I don't remember if I used the word genocide, maybe I did .. but I'm pretty sure I've said Netanyahu is targetting innocent people in Gaza.

 

[HalBass9]

Mr Hally Bally,

You can’t sit on the internet portraying the West as the enemy of Pakistan and Muslims, and trying to justify terrorist attacks in western ciuntries, while comfortably living in a Western country yourself.

Mufti Sahib, please point where have I justified terrorist attack on anyone? Rather I have been consistent in calling out extremists, including you.

If you can't then Mods please reprimand him for accusing other for sympathizing terrorism. Thanks

 

[straighttalk]

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A Global Membership, A Common Goal The International Association of Genocide Scholars is a global, interdisciplinary, non-partisan organization that seeks to further research and teaching about the nature, causes, and consequences of genocide, and advance policy studies on genocide prevention...

genocidescholars.org

Stop with the claim that it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide when you are no expert. As I have said 80% of genocide scholars have said it is a genocide including Israeli scholars in Israel such as Amos Goldberg.

Israel should have given the Palestinians their land. They have never agreed to a fair deal. They should not have blockaded Gaza since 1967 where they annexed both Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem illegally. They should stop their illegal annexation and occupation of the West Bank. They should have not kidnapped thousands of Palestinians including children without cause that are sitting in Israeli prisons being abused without due process, not allowed lawyers or allowed to even see their charges. Where they are seen by a court, they are being tried under a military court. What kind of democracy tries kids under a military court?

They have killed 20,000 children and these are only registered deaths where family members have made the Hamas authorities known about this. So many more children massacred. They have been sniping kids in the heads as per foreign Drs testimonies. They have done unspeakable things. Their cabinet ministers have used genocidal language.

I don't know any degree that makes you genocide expert..but I agree some legal and historical experts have classified it as genocide. Any war will have civilian deaths... specially when civilians are targeted. But let's look at this conflict.

1. Hamas started it by killingn 1000s invading Israel and holding hundreds hostage. Tell me what Paksitan would have done so. You guys bomb Afghanistan for your own Pakistani terrorists and send your own to India to kill civilians.

2. Hamas hides in Gaza and holds civilians as shield and hides among children in schools and hospitals.

3. Israel asked all civilians to leave...tell me who is stopping them from leaving.

4. Israel allowed humanitarian aid..who is preventing the aid from reaching the needy.

Yes there are civilian deaths. That's unfortunate but the onus and responsibility for that is on Hamas because of the above four reasons. Any time a city is invaded there are massive civilian casualties during war...Stalingrad Berlin etc. what constitute genocide is what happened in nanjing Dhaka or the Jews in Nazi..or after war ..in a systemic targeting. I equate Israel's action with war time casualties. There is no systemic targeting after war. Hamas hides among civilians so there is collateral damage. Otherwise every war will be called genocide. Ofcourse if Israel attacks Gaza..most deaths will be Palestinian..same as Vietnam Korea etc... this is more akin to Vietnam war...than a genocide that happened in Dhaka or nanjing.

 

[HalBass9]

Pakistan did not form Israel. Uk did

UK also form Pakistan and many other countries.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Neither of those specifically justify this particular terror attack. Or even any ISIS type terror attack which is what I was expecting.

so you are implying KKWC is all talk? or has he actually put any of his bravado into action? Is it simply meant for PP where his posts can disappear?

 

[rpant_gabba]

UK also form Pakistan and many other countries.

WTH does it mean? you reside in UK, pledge allegiance to the king and pay taxes which directly fund Israel

 

[emranabbas]

Mufti Sahib, please point where have I justified terrorist attack on anyone? Rather I have been consistent in calling out extremists, including you.

If you can't then Mods please reprimand him for accusing other for sympathizing terrorism. Thanks

I know you’re not the sharpest tool in the PTI box, but then what exactly was that long, dramatic post about, if not defending British-Pakistani posters who were justifying terrorist attacks on the West on the grounds that Western countries have attacked Muslim nations?

 

[Technics 1210]

Well said. The freedoms they are accorded here are not found in the neck of the woods they come from. And yet they don't appreciate it and evolve; they merely want to impose Shariah into our societies.

How much did your fam pay for settlement visas in Australia?

 

[Technics 1210]

Never knew indian wombats existed

They exist in higher numbers than you can imagine, more than ISIS members world wide. Look how easy it was to expose one in this very thread.

The likes of @Marshland can count themselves lucky that their Indian heritage and DNA wasn't applying for settlement today, otherwise Hindutva would have him living out a begging bowl.

Expose these Indian wannabe wombats!

 

[HalBass9]

I know you’re not the sharpest tool in the PTI box, but then what exactly was that long, dramatic post about, if not defending British-Pakistani posters who were justifying terrorist attacks on the West on the grounds that Western countries have attacked Muslim nations?

Oh right, my bad, expecting comprehension from a full time cheerleader of dictators was a bit too ambitious.

 

[HalBass9]

WTH does it mean? you reside in UK, pledge allegiance to the king and pay taxes which directly fund Israel

I do not reside in UK.

 

[finalfantasy7]

I don't remember if I used the word genocide, maybe I did .. but I'm pretty sure I've said Netanyahu is targetting innocent people in Gaza.

do you actually know anything:

or do you just read indian media, or try to read it and then making your own mind up.

let me guess you know more than Mehdi Hasan, as your indian (even though Mehdi Indian) but you know more.

Can you also state how have you came to that conclusion - that Netanyahu is targetting innocent people in Gaza

 

[finalfantasy7]

@RexRex

Let me guess, above videos are all lies and propaganda


O yeh West bank - are they Hamas suppoters - no, why under Netanyahu are the israeli expanding and killing civilians thr

 

[Romali_rotti]

Israel, Palestine, Palestine Israel.

The talk rages on. Converts and non Converts from the sub continent are more worried about it than the Jews and Arabs.

Meanwhile Arabs and Jews: They beneath us ....

 

[rickroll]

That so-called sensible Pakistani Muslim guy was talking rubbish. In reality, these issues are rarely discussed at all not in public forums, not in mosques, not in community spaces, and not even in private conversations. When the subject does come up, it is usually shut down quickly, deflected, or reframed as an external conspiracy rather than examined honestly.

Instead of meaningful self-reflection, much of the Pakistani Muslim community operates from a deeply rooted victim mindset. Problems are blamed on the West, foreign intelligence agencies, Islamophobia, or political enemies, while internal failures such as extremist interpretations, poor religious education, are ignored or outright denied. This mentality discourages accountability and makes honest discussion feel like betrayal rather than responsibility.

As a result, anyone who raises uncomfortable questions is often labelled a traitor, an agent, or someone “helping the enemy,” which further silences debate. This culture of defensiveness prevents genuine reform and allows the same patterns to repeat themselves. Until the community moves beyond victimhood and accepts that internal criticism is not an attack but a necessity, these problems will continue to fester rather than be resolved.

Not so at least among Pakistani American circles.

 

[Patriot]

I don't know any degree that makes you genocide expert..but I agree some legal and historical experts have classified it as genocide. Any war will have civilian deaths... specially when civilians are targeted. But let's look at this conflict.

1. Hamas started it by killingn 1000s invading Israel and holding hundreds hostage. Tell me what Paksitan would have done so. You guys bomb Afghanistan for your own Pakistani terrorists and send your own to India to kill civilians.

2. Hamas hides in Gaza and holds civilians as shield and hides among children in schools and hospitals.

3. Israel asked all civilians to leave...tell me who is stopping them from leaving.

4. Israel allowed humanitarian aid..who is preventing the aid from reaching the needy.

Yes there are civilian deaths. That's unfortunate but the onus and responsibility for that is on Hamas because of the above four reasons. Any time a city is invaded there are massive civilian casualties during war...Stalingrad Berlin etc. what constitute genocide is what happened in nanjing Dhaka or the Jews in Nazi..or after war ..in a systemic targeting. I equate Israel's action with war time casualties. There is no systemic targeting after war. Hamas hides among civilians so there is collateral damage. Otherwise every war will be called genocide. Ofcourse if Israel attacks Gaza..most deaths will be Palestinian..same as Vietnam Korea etc... this is more akin to Vietnam war...than a genocide that happened in Dhaka or nanjing.

Not some but 80% of experts in genocide have classified it as genocide.

I don’t condone what Hamas did by targeting civilians but 1,000s were not killed. Use official numbers, which is approximately 1,200 of which civilians killed were around 850 with the rest being security forces, which were legitimate targets. What we don’t know is of these 850 civilians, how many were killed by the Palestinian militants/terrorists and how many by the IDF as per their Hannibal doctrine which was reported by both the Guardian and Haaretz.

I have answered your question on what Israel should have done in an earlier post. The seeds for this were sowed decades ago by Zionists.

The Palestinian situation is very different to the situation in Pakistan. Pakistan is the equivalent of Israel here where it has committed atrocities against Afghanis. The Palestinians are suffering day in day out and prior to Oct 7, just in 2023 alone, according to the UN, Israel killed approximately 500 civilians including children just in the West Bank alone where the IDF has control and Hamas does not rule. So I flip your question to you, what should the Palestinians do when they are being massacred? Do you still think Hamas started it when in 2023 alone the IDF was killing Palestinian civilians and the world did nothing?

As for the hostages, I said to you earlier in a post that if you kidnap my child and the world/authorities does nothing, I will kidnap your child to exchange for mine. That is exactly what Hamas did. Israel has been hosting Palestinian hostages for years and there are thousands of them with no charges presented. They are not allowed legal access and are not even allowed to see any evidence held against them or what the changes are. If they do go to court, they are presented in a military court not a civilian one. These hostages include children. Let that sink in, Israel is holding kids without charge and presenting them to a military court. I ask again, what democracy does that?

The charge of civilian shield is bullcrap. The Gaza strip is tiny so it’s difficult to have your organisation in a completely separate and isolated location. As for the claim Hamas operates out of hospital and schools, there is no evidence for this other than the IDF making this claim. Foreign doctors who have been working in Gaza over the last 2 years reject this claim. Why doesn’t Israel allow foreign journalists in to investigate all of this? If they have nothing to hide, surely foreign journalists can investigate and find out if the civilian shield claim is true or not.

Israel has been sniping kids in the head. If it’s just casualties of war, why are kids being sniped? Foreign doctors reported this. Also, why is AI being used to target civilians crossing invisible lines? Two boys, one who was 11 was just killed by a drone because they crossed an invisible line Israel did not want Palestinians to cross. How would an 11 year old know? They were collecting firewood. What about the ambulances that the IDF destroyed, killing everyone in and then literally burying it so no one would find out? The world only discovered it because it was caught on camera of one of the ambulance worker killed. How about the killing of Hind Rajab and many more massacres committed. They found mass graves dug by the IDF to bury civilians killed.

You talk about Israel allowing people to leave. lol. That’s because they will never be allowed back in. That’s how it’s always happened. Once you go, you are not allowed back in by the Israelis. Their whole purpose is to have the land but not the people because they need to accommodate more and more Jews making Aliyah every year from Europe. People who don’t belong in the land.

Lol at Israel allowing humanitarian aid in. You make me laugh. When the UN, US, British governments and the ICJ said the exact opposite because Israel was blocking aid into Gaza. They have been literally starving people and Israeli civilians have been blockading trucks going in. In fact the whole system to allow aid in is messed up where trucks cross into Rafah from Egypt, first have to drive miles to the next IDF checkpoint before going all the way back and then being allowed to enter Gaza and this was before Oct 7.

Seriously you are brain washed!

 

[RexRex]

Can you also state how have you came to that conclusion - that Netanyahu is targetting innocent people in Gaza

I've come to that conclusion after observing the war coverage and watching various debates and discussions from both sides. I can't pinpoint to one specific piece of evidence, if that's what u want.

 

[HalBass9]

Not some but 80% of experts in genocide have classified it as genocide.

I don’t condone what Hamas did by targeting civilians but 1,000s were not killed. Use official numbers, which is approximately 1,200 of which civilians killed were around 850 with the rest being security forces, which were legitimate targets. What we don’t know is of these 850 civilians, how many were killed by the Palestinian militants/terrorists and how many by the IDF as per their Hannibal doctrine which was reported by both the Guardian and Haaretz.

I have answered your question on what Israel should have done in an earlier post. The seeds for this were sowed decades ago by Zionists.

The Palestinian situation is very different to the situation in Pakistan. Pakistan is the equivalent of Israel here where it has committed atrocities against Afghanis. The Palestinians are suffering day in day out and prior to Oct 7, just in 2023 alone, according to the UN, Israel killed approximately 500 civilians including children just in the West Bank alone where the IDF has control and Hamas does not rule. So I flip your question to you, what should the Palestinians do when they are being massacred? Do you still think Hamas started it when in 2023 alone the IDF was killing Palestinian civilians and the world did nothing?

As for the hostages, I said to you earlier in a post that if you kidnap my child and the world/authorities does nothing, I will kidnap your child to exchange for mine. That is exactly what Hamas did. Israel has been hosting Palestinian hostages for years and there are thousands of them with no charges presented. They are not allowed legal access and are not even allowed to see any evidence held against them or what the changes are. If they do go to court, they are presented in a military court not a civilian one. These hostages include children. Let that sink in, Israel is holding kids without charge and presenting them to a military court. I ask again, what democracy does that?

The charge of civilian shield is bullcrap. The Gaza strip is tiny so it’s difficult to have your organisation in a completely separate and isolated location. As for the claim Hamas operates out of hospital and schools, there is no evidence for this other than the IDF making this claim. Foreign doctors who have been working in Gaza over the last 2 years reject this claim. Why doesn’t Israel allow foreign journalists in to investigate all of this? If they have nothing to hide, surely foreign journalists can investigate and find out if the civilian shield claim is true or not.

Israel has been sniping kids in the head. If it’s just casualties of war, why are kids being sniped? Foreign doctors reported this. Also, why is AI being used to target civilians crossing invisible lines? Two boys, one who was 11 was just killed by a drone because they crossed an invisible line Israel did not want Palestinians to cross. How would an 11 year old know? They were collecting firewood. What about the ambulances that the IDF destroyed, killing everyone in and then literally burying it so no one would find out? The world only discovered it because it was caught on camera of one of the ambulance worker killed. How about the killing of Hind Rajab and many more massacres committed. They found mass graves dug by the IDF to bury civilians killed.

You talk about Israel allowing people to leave. lol. That’s because they will never be allowed back in. That’s how it’s always happened. Once you go, you are not allowed back in by the Israelis. Their whole purpose is to have the land but not the people because they need to accommodate more and more Jews making Aliyah every year from Europe. People who don’t belong in the land.

Lol at Israel allowing humanitarian aid in. You make me laugh. When the UN, US, British governments and the ICJ said the exact opposite because Israel was blocking aid into Gaza. They have been literally starving people and Israeli civilians have been blockading trucks going in. In fact the whole system to allow aid in is messed up where trucks cross into Rafah from Egypt, first have to drive miles to the next IDF checkpoint before going all the way back and then being allowed to enter Gaza and this was before Oct 7.

Seriously you are brain washed!

On this forum, when you’re dealing with Hindutvas, you’re not having a discussion, you’re babysitting a tantrum. Reason doesn’t work, facts don’t register, and evidence is treated like malware. They’re not here to think, they’re here to rehearse hate they already memorized.

Since pure hatred is an ugly look on its own, it has to be repackaged as culture, nationalism, or some recycled whatsapp Uni thesis. That way, ignorance feels noble and prejudice feels intellectual.

So debate is pointless. The only thing left is ridicule. If someone insists on arguing in bad faith with the confidence of a scholar and the depth of a puddle, the least you can do is laugh while they embarrass themselves.

Majority of Muslims have condemned all form of terrorism, every Hindutva has justified the Genocide.

 

[ahsan17]

I don't think anyone has said the foreign policies of the West shouldn't be criticised by muslims. But if people are going to bring it up in the context of this thread and fixate on it, it does seem like a subtle justifying of what happened in Bondi..

I will go back to what I said in my previous post. One action explains the other in terms of cause and effect. It's unrelated to what I think is morally correct, or what I think should have happened. I have lifelong hatred of groups that carry out terrorist attacks, since many members of my own group have been targeted. But it doesn't mean cause and effect is something that can be ignored.

Another way to look at it is - once Pakistan joined US WoT, it was expected there would be some terrorist attacks in Pakistan. I again have lifelong hatred of groups like TTP who carry out these attacks, but in the long-term if you want to stop such attacks you have to mitigate what people use for propaganda to brainwashing.

 

[RexRex]

I will go back to what I said in my previous post. One action explains the other in terms of cause and effect. It's unrelated to what I think is morally correct, or what I think should have happened. I have lifelong hatred of groups that carry out terrorist attacks, since many members of my own group have been targeted. But it doesn't mean cause and effect is something that can be ignored.

Cause & effect would be an explanation on some level if this happened somewhere in Israel and was carried out by someone who was a direct or indirect victim of some injustice in Gaza. A random pakistani gunning down people a million miles away in Australia is something else .. some kind of mental illness intensified by his religious extremism.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Going through this thread, its just disturbing how some Brit muslims and Pakistanis are.

People were killed, and im seeing lengthy essays by some typical jahil Brits justifying the attack.... I cant believe some of these idiots are giving lectures on history, talking about palestine, as if the killing of jews warrant this.

AGAHAHHHAAHA, the audacity to say that after your comments on the Mumbai attack, loloilolooll

 

[emranabbas]

AGAHAHHHAAHA, the audacity to say that after your comments on the Mumbai attack, loloilolooll

The indians have forgiven him for that comment he only said to annoy the Indians he didn't really meant it.

@Bhaijaan

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The indians have forgiven him for that comment he only said to annoy the Indians he didn't really meant it.

@Bhaijaan

If you’re going to annoy Indians by making a terrorist as your dp, then you really shouldn’t be talking about how “disturbing” posts about this attack are…it’s just hypocritical.

 

[emranabbas]

If you’re going to annoy Indians by making a terrorist as your dp, then you really shouldn’t be talking about how “disturbing” posts about this attack are…it’s just hypocritical.

Why are people trying to justify terrorist attacks in the west? They trying to annoying the indians?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Why are people trying to justify terrorist attacks in the west? They trying to annoying the indians?

It’s a fact that Jews from outside of Israel travel to Israel to kill innocent civilians, if any of those were the casualties of the attack then fk em… however my condolences go to the innocent civilians.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There is a video circulating online of the attacker's acquaintance saying that the attacker (Naveed Akram) is of Indian-origin i.e. his dad (the second attacker) is Indian. We already know that he is an Australian-born citizen. Not sure if what he is saying is verified or something he is just alleging.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is a video circulating online of the attacker's acquaintance saying that the attacker (Naveed Akram) is of Indian-origin i.e. his dad (the second attacker) is Indian. We already know that he is an Australian-born citizen. Not sure if what he is saying is verified or something he is just alleging.

I heard online the young guy was mixed (half-Indian and half-Italian). Not sure if true.

 

[Kriketer]

Posting articles on India. What's wrong with that? We are not making up news. We are posting factual stuff.

Do you want us to praise India 24/7? That's not logical. We are not Indians and we are not posting at an Indian site.

I have always condemned radicals. You sanghis don't condemn your own radicals. That's the difference.

Sanghis make their radicals Ministers. They also love genocide and terrorism on civilians and cheer children getting snipped in heads if its of the specific kind they don't like. Brown Nazis is all what these nobodies are.

Funny how they haven't posted this much against their Masters Saars of Israel committing crimes against humanity against Palestinains and nations around. Ofcourse Sanghis will never go against their White Lords, their true Masters
Their ancestors served genocidal colonzier Europeans wholeheartedly so it's just in their bloodline

 

[Vikram1989]

There is a video circulating online of the attacker's acquaintance saying that the attacker (Naveed Akram) is of Indian-origin i.e. his dad (the second attacker) is Indian. We already know that he is an Australian-born citizen. Not sure if what he is saying is verified or something he is just alleging.

I have doubt with the names part.Akram is not a common name in india.Inidan ppers can correct me if am wrong.Sajid and Naveed are also highly uncommon names.I know only couple of celebrities with Sajid name.I never saw a normal middle class indians with that name.All indian Muslim boy's names are mix and match of 10 to 15 common names.If they are Indians, father should be from kashmir or any Muslim majority place where Muslim elites( read originals) used to be there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I heard online the young guy was mixed (half-Indian and half-Italian). Not sure if true.

What I heard too.

Alot of white people in UK and Australia label Indians and Pakistanis as Indians, so I'm not sure if it is true, or just something he is alleging.

 

[finalfantasy7]

I've come to that conclusion after observing the war coverage and watching various debates and discussions from both sides. I can't pinpoint to one specific piece of evidence, if that's what u want.

yeh ofcourse, you cant name me anything - basically means you cant name a debate you watched - is it because you havent watched any, dont remember the debate - even though you remember a person name in the debate - or as ii post numerous of articles regarding india - your scared of confiring the name or source - so i prove your wrong not just about israel / gaza - but your trypical rubbish indian media points of view on every topic .

how about watching the above videos to see if they can persuade you

 

[Romali_rotti]

What I heard too.

Alot of white people in UK and Australia label Indians and Pakistanis as Indians, so I'm not sure if it is true, or just something he is alleging.

It's something he is alleging his supposed colleague, if you look at his drivers license photo it looks like he is wearing a Pakistan cricket team jersey. No official release yet on his nationality except that he is a muslim.....

 

[emranabbas]

I’ve seen posts claiming that he is Israeli, allegedly using the name David Cohen and working for the IDF

 

[IronShield]

It's something he is alleging his supposed colleague, if you look at his drivers license photo it looks like he is wearing a Pakistan cricket team jersey. No official release yet on his nationality except that he is a muslim.....

As you and @Devadwal mourn, please accept my sincerest condolences for your great loss........... of opportunity to take a dig at Pakistan.

 

[Romali_rotti]

As you and @Devadwal mourn, please accept my sincerest condolences for your great loss........... of opportunity to take a dig at Pakistan.

Please also in return accept our sincere condolences on all the flash flag rejections that keeps happening on your behalf