Nawaz Sharif's GT Road March

[Asim_khan]

The absolute state of this "journalist". She's Reuters/New York Times

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Minutes before he left for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GTRoadRally?src=hash">#GTRoadRally</a> I asked ex PM <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NawazSharif?src=hash">#NawazSharif</a> how he felt. He laughed and said, "Great. Couldn't be better." <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash">#Pakistan</a></p>— Mehreen Zahra-Malik (@mehreenzahra) <a href="https://twitter.com/mehreenzahra/status/895197722294321152">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[WebGuru]

The absolute state of this "journalist". She's Reuters/New York Times

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Minutes before he left for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GTRoadRally?src=hash">#GTRoadRally</a> I asked ex PM <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NawazSharif?src=hash">#NawazSharif</a> how he felt. He laughed and said, "Great. Couldn't be better." <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash">#Pakistan</a></p>— Mehreen Zahra-Malik (@mehreenzahra) <a href="https://twitter.com/mehreenzahra/status/895197722294321152">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Check her piece on Gulalai from a few days ago on Reuters.

 

[Bewal Express]

Check her piece on Gulalai from a few days ago on Reuters.

How are you is an incredibly tough question for an imbecile like NS but a real journalist Would have asked about the money trail?

 

[Asim_khan]

Check her piece on Gulalai from a few days ago on Reuters.

Going by that piece, any non Pakistani would think PTI supporters and Imran Khan are the route cause of all sexual harassment, rape threats and even murder. What a horrible piece which doesn't mention the partisan atmosphere of current Politics and why so many are incensed by Gulalai. She also condones Gulalai not sharing the text messages, like that somehow makes her that much more of a target, which is ridiculous. Quoting Marvi at the end is just the icing on the cake.

And then just seen this tweet by her, comparing PTI supporters complaints at their tax money being used be an ex PM with PTI complaining about vote rigging/corruption

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Amused by supporters of 2014 sit-in, which sapped millions from the economy, who are now complaining about cost of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GTRoadRally?src=hash">#GTRoadRally</a> .Consistency</p>— Mehreen Zahra-Malik (@mehreenzahra) <a href="https://twitter.com/mehreenzahra/status/895225822730178560">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[WebGuru]

Going by that piece, any non Pakistani would think PTI supporters and Imran Khan are the route cause of all sexual harassment, rape threats and even murder. What a horrible piece which doesn't mention the partisan atmosphere of current Politics and why so many are incensed by Gulalai. She also condones Gulalai not sharing the text messages, like that somehow makes her that much more of a target, which is ridiculous. Quoting Marvi at the end is just the icing on the cake.

And then just seen this tweet by her, comparing PTI supporters complaints at their tax money being used be an ex PM with PTI complaining about vote rigging/corruption

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Amused by supporters of 2014 sit-in, which sapped millions from the economy, who are now complaining about cost of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GTRoadRally?src=hash">#GTRoadRally</a> .Consistency</p>— Mehreen Zahra-Malik (@mehreenzahra) <a href="https://twitter.com/mehreenzahra/status/895225822730178560">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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True words but as they say Money Talks and in this era all you need is a strong lobby in west to increase your chances.

 

[WebGuru]

Maryam in August 2014 ) #irony

 

[Waseem]

I never expected lot of people to come to this rally, imagine if there was no government machinery, patwaris, police etc facilitating this rally??

These low numbers don't necessarily mean PMLN has lost support though, their supporters don't have the enthusiasm or JOSH for such rallies.

 

[Waseem]

And? How is that diatribe relevant to the quoted post? Nawaz is gone, that chapter is closed. My issue isn't with who the law has been used to disqualify or who, it's with (a) The exact wording of the law and (b) Those damned khakis throwing their weight around, acting like the local badmash. You seem obsessed with NS considering my post has nothing to do with him and I've been opposed to this ridiculous law long before Panama was a thing. NS could have been disqualified regardless of whether or not this particular law was in place. What having such a law does is it provides the extraconstitutional forces a means to arm twist non compliant politicians because the stringency of the criteria set within 62 and 63 means that not a single living being can satisfy it and anyone who falls out of line can be taken out for being in violation of it when needed.

I don't give a flying horse about saving Nawaz Sharif, you lot really need to get over this ridiculous habit of reducing things to an opposed to IK = Nawaz supporter binary, it just makes you lot look petty and stupid considering how much bigger our problems are than those two clowns.




This is pretty underhanded even for youthias. I know false attribution is one of the defining traits of this group but at no point in this thread did I so much as hint at, much less mention, the establishment's role in NS' disqualification nor is any post in this chain even remotely relevant to that issue so instead of creating strawmen, maybe address the issue at hand that 62/63 are ridiculous laws. Not everything is about IK, NS and the khakis.

Lol calm down buddy, not sure what you are upset about here.

If it's not about IK, NS or khakis then maybe you are in the wrong thread?? The thread is about Nawaz Sharif and his long March .

 

[WebGuru]

These low numbers don't necessarily mean PMLN has lost support though, their supporters don't have the enthusiasm or JOSH for such rallies.

True as i said earlier PMLN isn't party known for jalsas and rallies but they are master in election day politics.

 

[DW44]

Lol calm down buddy, not sure what you are upset about here.

If it's not about IK, NS or khakis then maybe you are in the wrong thread?? The thread is about Nawaz Sharif and his long March .

My first post in this thread was in response to a known PTI supporter practically cheering a veiled threat from the khakis. I simply pointed out the irony of the khakis saying respect the constitution or else.

The fact that Nawaz and the Panama case somehow found their way into that particular exchange was completely unnecessary and dragged the discussion off a tangent which is what annoys me. Don't turn everything into PTI vs PML, there are greater issues than their petty squabbling.

 

[WebGuru]

My first post in this thread was in response to a known PTI supporter practically cheering a veiled threat from the khakis. I simply pointed out the irony of the khakis saying respect the constitution or else.

Why attacking me indirectly? You can quote my name instead of using "a known PTI supporter practically cheering a veiled threat from the khakis". Bhai jan how can you say i was cheering? all i said was a loud and clear message from GHQ by posting a pic from ISPR release?

 

[DW44]

Why attacking me indirectly? You can quote my name instead of using "a known PTI supporter practically cheering a veiled threat from the khakis". Bhai jan how can you say i was cheering? all i said was a loud and clear message from GHQ by posting a pic from ISPR release?

Because it's not important to the issue at hand. It could have been any supporter of any party and I'd have identified them as such because the person isn't important, the message is.

 

[Black Zero]

Well public/pmln supporters rejected the SC's verdict:

https://jang.com.pk/print/358758-todays-print

"Daykho daykho koun aaya, SAADIQ aur AMEEN aaya"

Showing the toes and thumbs to establishment.

 

[WebGuru]

Because it's not important to the issue at hand. It could have been any supporter of any party and I'd have identified them as such because the person isn't important, the message is.

And how can sharing a message from a meeting on that makes me a cheerleader of khakis?

 

[WebGuru]

Well public/pmln supporters rejected the SC's verdict:

https://jang.com.pk/print/358758-todays-print

"Daykho daykho koun aaya, SAADIQ aur AMEEN aaya"

Showing the toes and thumbs to establishment.

Saaleh Zafar is the reporter? The same guy who reported adult toys, dvd's and drugs found in Sharifs room when Musharraf jailed them. He is a qaseeda khawn of Sharif these days....

 

[DW44]

And how can sharing a message from a meeting on that makes me a cheerleader of khakis?

Looked that way to me given your views, the fact that many posters here with similar views support the military's interference in politics, and the particular thread where it was posted.

 

[WebGuru]

Looked that way to me given your views, the fact that many posters here with similar views support the military's interference in politics, and the particular thread where it was posted.

There was a Corps Commanders Conference on same day and statement was relevant to this thread and march so i posted it here.

 

[Bewal Express]

My first post in this thread was in response to a known PTI supporter practically cheering a veiled threat from the khakis. I simply pointed out the irony of the khakis saying respect the constitution or else.

The fact that Nawaz and the Panama case somehow found their way into that particular exchange was completely unnecessary and dragged the discussion off a tangent which is what annoys me. Don't turn everything into PTI vs PML, there are greater issues than their petty squabbling.

If or one would back the khakis over these crooks any day of the week. One is slightly less corrupt than the other. I would give anything to see the army give these crooks a good hiding. At least the army put their lives on the line, what do these losers do?

 

[Syed1]

Flop show.. Nooras must be burning.


PP Timepass isn't fun anymore since most of them stopped posting.

 

[Syed1]

Looked that way to me given your views, the fact that many posters here with similar views support the military's interference in politics, and the particular thread where it was posted.

I would much rather have the khakis than this monarchy.

 

[DW44]

I would much rather have the khakis than this monarchy.

If or one would back the khakis over these crooks any day of the week. One is slightly less corrupt than the other. I would give anything to see the army give these crooks a good hiding. At least the army put their lives on the line, what do these losers do?

So the two of you don't want a corrupt party at the helm but you'll take a dictator from an even more corrupt institution? As far as putting lives on the line goes, that's well and good since its their job but when they put the lives of ordinary Pakistanis on the line for their own ends, by propping up the likes of Lashkar e Jhangvi, even someone like Nawaz Sharif, someone my views are well known on, by default becomes the lesser evil. The flat that you'd take the khakis simply indicates that you don't want honest leadership, you just don't want the one you hate most.

 

[Syed1]

So the two of you don't want a corrupt party at the helm but you'll take a dictator from an even more corrupt institution? As far as putting lives on the line goes, that's well and good since its their job but when they put the lives of ordinary Pakistanis on the line for their own ends, by propping up the likes of Lashkar e Jhangvi, even someone like Nawaz Sharif, someone my views are well known on, by default becomes the lesser evil. The flat that you'd take the khakis simply indicates that you don't want honest leadership, you just don't want the one you hate most.

Stopped reading after bolded part. Unsubstantiated claim by an army hater.

 

[Asim_khan]

Looked that way to me given your views, the fact that many posters here with similar views support the military's interference in politics, and the particular thread where it was posted.

Who shares the view that they're in favour of the Military's interference in politics? It seems PMLN supporters have been throwing this accusation at PTI recently, forgetting that 1) Nawaz was a child of Military interference in Politics 2) Imran Khan was offered the Prime ministership under Musharaff and declined, siding with Ch Iftekhar and the judiciary.

 

[DW44]

To add to my previous post, picking khakis over PML or PPP is like saying I'd rather have HIV over Leukemia. The latter will almost certainly kill you but with the former, there's no almost, it will kill you, period.

 

[Black Zero]

Saaleh Zafar is the reporter? The same guy who reported adult toys, dvd's and drugs found in Sharifs room when Musharraf jailed them. He is a qaseeda khawn of Sharif these days....

Jang has been pro nawaz for decades now....most of the journalists (who are senior analysts now) benefitted from plot/travel schemes of NS governments. If I am not wrong, NS introduced these lifafs journalists.

 

[WebGuru]

Jang has been pro nawaz for decades now....most of the journalists (who are senior analysts now) benefitted from plot/travel schemes of NS governments. If I am not wrong, NS introduced these lifafs journalists.

True he introduced it when he was CM of Punjab back in mid 80s. He also introduced lotaism, changa manga politics.

 

[DW44]

Who shares the view that they're in favour of the Military's interference in politics? It seems PMLN supporters have been throwing this accusation at PTI recently, forgetting that 1) Nawaz was a child of Military interference in Politics 2) Imran Khan was offered the Prime ministership under Musharaff and declined, siding with Ch Iftekhar and the judiciary.

1 - Not a PML supporter.
2 - No one denied NS' history. Like I said, he's the cancer to the military's HIV. In a vacuum, strictly between him and the military, hes by far the lesser of two evils but outside of that hyper specific hypothetical scenario, he's filth.
3 - I did not say anything about collusion between IK and the military. I specifically said IK supporters tend to be relatively pro military since their particular brand of politics have room for being pro military, often to the point where they'll look the other way if the military's interference produces an outcome favorable to them.

 

[DW44]

Stopped reading after bolded part. Unsubstantiated claim by an army hater.

Shows what you know. Off course if your idea of substantiation is a nice JIT report, by all means constitute a JIT. As things stand, you can't even talk about them negatively on the media.

 

[WebGuru]

The most funny thing right now on social media is to see PMLN supporters sharing Mumtaz Qadri funeral pics for a face saving to show the massive crowd coming out for NS

 

[Major]

I would much rather have the khakis than this monarchy.

You cant remove khakis once they come in power

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] is right in a way. both leukemia and HIV will definitely kill you but one will not give u false hope as one of the poster was saying..

 

[DRsohail]

This is what happens when you Rent a Crowd )

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And this happens when you "rent a crowd" for the rally....����<br>The "daily wages" "supporters"....<br>They want money but they are NOT stupids �� <a href="https://t.co/L4RxNuvk6v">pic.twitter.com/L4RxNuvk6v</a></p>— Zaid Hamid (@ZaidZamanHamid) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZaidZamanHamid/status/895239253751459841">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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he is speaking pashto.

 

[WebGuru]

he is speaking pashto.

They are playing PTI song in background

 

[DRsohail]

They are playing PTI song in background

hhhahahah yess...pathans are crazy about pti and khan sb..

 

[Asim_khan]

1 - Not a PML supporter.
2 - No one denied NS' history. Like I said, he's the cancer to the military's HIV. In a vacuum, strictly between him and the military, hes by far the lesser of two evils but outside of that hyper specific hypothetical scenario, he's filth.
3 - I did not say anything about collusion between IK and the military. I specifically said IK supporters tend to be relatively pro military since their particular brand of politics have room for being pro military, often to the point where they'll look the other way if the military's interference produces an outcome favorable to them.

Well you sound like someone particular irked by Nawaz no longer being in power, so my bad. I agree with your evaluation of him, he's filth. And since the Military are not currently knocking on any doors, we can correctly assume that the choice at the moment is between Nawaz and 'Not Nawaz', and not Nawaz & The Army, therefore surely you should be in a celebratory mood and not upset at people not turning up for Nawaz' big guess who's back/farewell.

And your third point is projecting your own thoughts/feelings onto PTI supporters, especially since the only thing we have to go on in regards to PTI/Military relationship is their chairman refusing to stand with a Military dictator and siding with the judiciary, something he's repeated recently when Nawaz was disqualified

 

[WebGuru]

hhhahahah yess...pathans are crazy about pti and khan sb..

and chanting chor chor in PMLN rally!

 

[WebGuru]

Mehr trolling noonies )
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PML-N media cell is kinda slow, right? Every third picture on Twitter praising PML-N rally is either an old one and from some other country.</p>— Mehr Tarar (@MehrTarar) <a href="https://twitter.com/MehrTarar/status/895277172260294656">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[WebGuru]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Almost 10 months ago Imran Khan wanted to lock down Islamabad. Today the capital is literally locked down by the PML-N govt.</p>— Ali Salman Alvi (@alisalmanalvi) <a href="https://twitter.com/alisalmanalvi/status/895218947309670400">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[coooolali]

Missing the old PMLN supporters at PP after Panama verdict

May be Panama verdict have opened their eyes say no to PMLN.

 

[Asim_khan]

[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION] Are the PMLN SM team seriously using a gay pride march photo from yesteryear as an example of the colour and vibrancy of todays GTRoadRally?? They've literally lost it

 

[DW44]

Well you sound like someone particular irked by Nawaz no longer being in power, so my bad. I agree with your evaluation of him, he's filth. And since the Military are not currently knocking on any doors, we can correctly assume that the choice at the moment is between Nawaz and 'Not Nawaz', and not Nawaz & The Army, therefore surely you should be in a celebratory mood and not upset at people not turning up for Nawaz' big guess who's back/farewell.

The only thing I'm irked by is the fact that from a political point of view, the military is stronger than ever right now and that's never a good sign. Beyond the military's role, I have largely become ambivalent towards what goes on in Pakistani politics because outside of maybe education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes. That's the larger threat and, in light of that, whatever bit players like IK or NS get up to is fairly irrelevant to me. There's bigger fish to fry.

And your third point is projecting your own thoughts/feelings onto PTI supporters, especially since the only thing we have to go on in regards to PTI/Military relationship is their chairman refusing to stand with a Military dictator and siding with the judiciary, something he's repeated recently when Nawaz was disqualified

Again, I referred specifically to PTI supporters, not the party itself. On this thread alone you have many of them justifying the military's role in our politics and thus despite the most pro military PTI posters not having chipped in with his $0.02.

 

[Asim_khan]

The only thing I'm irked by is the fact that from a political point of view, the military is stronger than ever right now and that's never a good sign. Beyond the military's role, I have largely become ambivalent towards what goes on in Pakistani politics because outside of maybe education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes. That's the larger threat and, in light of that, whatever bit players like IK or NS get up to is fairly irrelevant to me. There's bigger fish to fry.

Either I'm blind to it, or you're seeing things cos as far as I know, the Military have't played any role whatsoever in Nawaz getting disqualified. Are there any things in particular that the Miliatary is currently doing outside it's domain that I need to see or look out for? Cos the only people bringing them up are those upset at Nawaz's rightful ouster, for instance Asma Jahanghir, who herself has questions to answer in terms of loans into the billions being written off by successive governments.

Again, I referred specifically to PTI supporters, not the party itself. On this thread alone you have many of them justifying the military's role in our politics and thus despite the most pro military PTI posters not having chipped in with his $0.02.

Well as a PTI supporter, on this thread too, I can assure you the worst thing that could happen is for the Army to take control of the political system, especially now that we've seen that we have a judiciary that isn't afraid of taking on the big dogs.

 

[Pakpak]

The only thing I'm irked by is the fact that from a political point of view, the military is stronger than ever right now and that's never a good sign. Beyond the military's role, I have largely become ambivalent towards what goes on in Pakistani politics because outside of maybe education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes. That's the larger threat and, in light of that, whatever bit players like IK or NS get up to is fairly irrelevant to me. There's bigger fish to fry.



Again, I referred specifically to PTI supporters, not the party itself. On this thread alone you have many of them justifying the military's role in our politics and thus despite the most pro military PTI posters not having chipped in with his $0.02.

IK and NS or any other politician...these are not 'bit players'. Despite the military's power right now the only that stopped NS or PPP from putting in billions of dollars into our economy announced in our budget every year wasn't the military. It was the politician's corruption. Despite the military's power the civilians could have used those countless billions and made the average person's life a lot better. But they chose to eat that money up. Noone was stopping the politicians from putting money into health care or education. These bit players could still have changed the country for the better.

You yourself said:

''outside education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes.''

I am sorry but health and education ARE the most important policy matters in an impoverished, uneducated jaahil qaum. I don't really care if the military dictates every other policy if in return our politicians pour money into health care and education. With a healthy and educated populace maybe then they can get the country behind them to challenge the military elite. When you have most of your country uneducated and starving they don't really care about foreign policy.

 

[WebGuru]

[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION] Are the PMLN SM team seriously using a gay pride march photo from yesteryear as an example of the colour and vibrancy of todays GTRoadRally?? They've literally lost it

haha yea saw those pics and they also used Brazilian protest pics

 

[Eagle_Eye]

To add to my previous post, picking khakis over PML or PPP is like saying I'd rather have HIV over Leukemia. The latter will almost certainly kill you but with the former, there's no almost, it will kill you, period.

I guess you never get tired of repeating the same rubbish over and over even when asked to present evidence.... you just do it hoping it becomes the accepted narrative.

I am still waiting on the "academic papers" you claimed to have read on Pakistan army selling drugs... before you left that thread in a huff.

 

[Bewal Express]

So the two of you don't want a corrupt party at the helm but you'll take a dictator from an even more corrupt institution? As far as putting lives on the line goes, that's well and good since its their job but when they put the lives of ordinary Pakistanis on the line for their own ends, by propping up the likes of Lashkar e Jhangvi, even someone like Nawaz Sharif, someone my views are well known on, by default becomes the lesser evil. The flat that you'd take the khakis simply indicates that you don't want honest leadership, you just don't want the one you hate most.

I want honest leadership but if its not possible with these crooks, i would take lesser of the evils. To me Nooras and PPP are ****, army only slightly better but nonetheless better. I agree the job of the army is to protect the country from threats but its the job of politicians to represent people not to build empires abroad.

 

[DW44]

I guess you never get tired of repeating the same rubbish over and over even when asked to present evidence.... you just do it hoping it becomes the accepted narrative.

I am still waiting on the "academic papers" you claimed to have read on Pakistan army selling drugs... before you left that thread in a huff.

You demands for evidence remain hypocritical and disingenuous as ever. It took two trials in the supreme Court and a JIT with members of two different branches of military intelligence to collect barely enough evidence to disqualify Nawaz Sharif but that doesn't change the fact that people knew he was corrupt before the JIT found what it did so I don't see how you expect an individual to have evidence of similar quality on an institution far more powerful than Nawaz Sharif. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the military's less than legal or ethical activities are one of Donald Rumsfeld's proverbial known knowns. It happens and people, with the exception of your ilk, know it does. By all means for a JIT to probe the many allegations against them from various stakeholders in Pakistan.

 

[DW44]

I want honest leadership but if its not possible with these crooks, i would take lesser of the evils. To me Nooras and PPP are ****, army only slightly better but nonetheless better. I agree the job of the army is to protect the country from threats but its the job of politicians to represent people not to build empires abroad.

So the army is the 'lesser evil' here? SMH.

 

[WebGuru]

This rally is so far making PMLN leadership looks like fools the numbers are just not enough even after using all the resources. Instead of Jehlum they are thinking about spending the night in Rawalpindi because not enough people are there

PMLN should have started this rally from Gujranwala their stronghold

 

[Asim_khan]

You demands for evidence remain hypocritical and disingenuous as ever. It took two trials in the supreme Court and a JIT with members of two different branches of military intelligence to collect barely enough evidence to disqualify Nawaz Sharif but that doesn't change the fact that people knew he was corrupt before the JIT found what it did so I don't see how you expect an individual to have evidence of similar quality on an institution far more powerful than Nawaz Sharif. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the military's less than legal or ethical activities are one of Donald Rumsfeld's proverbial known knowns. It happens and people, with the exception of your ilk, know it does. By all means for a JIT to probe the many allegations against them from various stakeholders in Pakistan.

It's almost impossible for the SC to disqualify a PM, and that's the only reason the SC got rid of him on the grounds they did. If you seriously think he's gonna survive the NAB case, with all the mountain of evidence against him, most of it of his own doing, then I can't help you.

 

[WebGuru]

Hats off to KP police and govt they didn't tried to stop PMLN rallies coming from KP under Amir Muqam to Punjab. Remember what PMLN govt did to PTI rally last year?

 

[DW44]

It's almost impossible for the SC to disqualify a PM, and that's the only reason the SC got rid of him on the grounds they did. If you seriously think he's gonna survive the NAB case, with all the mountain of evidence against him, most of it of his own doing, then I can't help you.

He probably won't but that's beside the point. The fact is that it took several political, military and judicial institutions years to collect just enough evidence against him though that didn't stop regular people from rightly proclaiming him a corrupt piece of crap. What bothers me is the hypocrisy of the demand that a private citizen produce evidence of a similar standard before making similar claims against the military, knowing full well that it is an impossible task not because the evidence doesn't exist Hut because the military has the resources to suppress it and take out anyone pursuing it.

Earlier this year a bunch of people dissappeared randomly from various parts of Pakistan and almost as if on cue, the military's mouthpiece, Bol, launched a media campaign against them dealing them blasphemous by associating them with an anti Islam page none of them had any links to. All of them were known critics of the military. Two of them that I know of through mutual friends are still missing and the one who was released - only because he was an EU citizen and the EU does not tolerate Pakistan extrajudicially abducting and torturing its citizens - recounted how he was tortured by them.

 

[Bewal Express]

So the army is the 'lesser evil' here? SMH.

Any day of the week. I hate these evil crooks and if the choice was between the sham lootocracy of the politicians and the army, its the army. This is not to say that army rule is good rule but at least its better than debt doubling in 10 years.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

IK and NS or any other politician...these are not 'bit players'. Despite the military's power right now the only that stopped NS or PPP from putting in billions of dollars into our economy announced in our budget every year wasn't the military. It was the politician's corruption. Despite the military's power the civilians could have used those countless billions and made the average person's life a lot better. But they chose to eat that money up. Noone was stopping the politicians from putting money into health care or education. These bit players could still have changed the country for the better.

You yourself said:

''outside education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes.''

I am sorry but health and education ARE the most important policy matters in an impoverished, uneducated jaahil qaum. I don't really care if the military dictates every other policy if in return our politicians pour money into health care and education. With a healthy and educated populace maybe then they can get the country behind them to challenge the military elite. When you have most of your country uneducated and starving they don't really care about foreign policy.

I think some posters are less bothered about poverty and health of the starving masses and more concerned about educated individuals having the right to challenge religion academically and intellectually. When you look at it that way, if the masses are religious then it might be better if they starve or die from poor health from that person's POV.

 

[DW44]

Any day of the week. I hate these evil crooks and if the choice was between the sham lootocracy of the politicians and the army, its the army. This is not to say that army rule is good rule but at least its better than debt doubling in 10 years.

Khakis are as low as it gets in Pakistan. It takes something truly extraordinary to make someone like NS seem palatable and the military pull that feat off with the grave of a ballerina. More corrupt, worse governance and responsible for the single biggest economic blunder in our history, the FTA with China.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

I think some posters are less bothered about poverty and health of the starving masses and more concerned about educated individuals having the right to challenge religion academically and intellectually. When you look at it that way, if the masses are religious then it might be better if they starve or die from poor health from that person's POV.

Pseudo-liberals and pseudo-intellectuals. Pakistan's democratic institutions are so corrupt you are bound to get pretenders.

 

[Asim_khan]

He probably won't but that's beside the point. The fact is that it took several political, military and judicial institutions years to collect just enough evidence against him though that didn't stop regular people from rightly proclaiming him a corrupt piece of crap. What bothers me is the hypocrisy of the demand that a private citizen produce evidence of a similar standard before making similar claims against the military, knowing full well that it is an impossible task not because the evidence doesn't exist Hut because the military has the resources to suppress it and take out anyone pursuing it.

You're persisting with this line that it was only 'just' enough evidence, when the fact of the matter is he's barely got through the start of what's to come for him, and his family, namely the NAB case, Model town incident, forged documents and contempt hearings. The only people bringing up Article 62/63 being used to disqualify him are those who wanna lay the blame on the Army pressuring the SC to make the decision, when the fact of the matter is, if you look at it constructively, the SC used these 2 articles to get rid of him, knowing full well there's no way he'll survive what's to come, because as you correctly pointed out there's mountains of evidence againt him/the Sharifs.

As for what the Army get up to, I can only take your word for it, all I know is it's fashionable to attack them and plenty of buffoons have made a career out of it and claiming they're corrupt, whilst not being able to explain why they've had billions worth of loans written off by governments

 

[Syed1]

I think some posters are less bothered about poverty and health of the starving masses and more concerned about educated individuals having the right to challenge religion academically and intellectually. When you look at it that way, if the masses are religious then it might be better if they starve or die from poor health from that person's POV.

90% Pakistanis are more concerned about how to put food on the table rather than whether we have "jamhooriat" or "amriyaat". Pakistani psuedo-liberal brigade live in a bubble of their own aloof from majority of their own countrymen, yet they have the gall to tell others whats best for them.

 

[Syed1]

Army is a lesser evil by an arm and a leg. There is absolutely no comparison. I would have Mush at the helm everyday of the week and twice on Sunday over filthy scums like Zardari and Nawaz.


But as they say "democracy is the best revenge"

 

[DW44]

IK and NS or any other politician...these are not 'bit players'. Despite the military's power right now the only that stopped NS or PPP from putting in billions of dollars into our economy announced in our budget every year wasn't the military. It was the politician's corruption. Despite the military's power the civilians could have used those countless billions and made the average person's life a lot better. But they chose to eat that money up. Noone was stopping the politicians from putting money into health care or education. These bit players could still have changed the country for the better.

They are relative to the military. Between them and the military, you know just as well as I do which way the balance of power is skewed and to what extent. That's not to say they're good people in their own rights, they're still essentially crooks but my point is that so are the military and bigger ones at that. If they weren't, they'd have spent the money as you suggested but then the military has ruled us for far longer, did they spend that way? There's a reason the military is the largest corporate entity in the country.

You yourself said:

''outside education and health, most important policy matters are largely the military's domain albeit only from behind the scenes.''

I am sorry but health and education ARE the most important policy matters in an impoverished, uneducated jaahil qaum. I don't really care if the military dictates every other policy if in return our politicians pour money into health care and education. With a healthy and educated populace maybe then they can get the country behind them to challenge the military elite. When you have most of your country uneducated and starving they don't really care about foreign policy.

They're up there but not the biggest. For a country at our level of development, the economy is the biggest issue and industrialization should be priority number one. During the copy paste growth stage, which is where it starts and which we're yet to enter, you spend the bare minimum on education while devoting every resource to expanding industrial capacity and setting up supporting infrastructure. Anyway, I digress but my point is that spending money on education will bring about very little visible improvement without first developing the relevant economic sectors. Education only starts becoming a factor when you enter the next phase of development, innovation led growth which we're light years away from. Even the likes of Turkey and Malaysia aren't there yet.

For us specifically, there are other issues that take precedence, security and terrorism chief among them, and on that front the military has a pretty chequered record with the exception of action against TTP who've only part of the problem.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

You demands for evidence remain hypocritical and disingenuous as ever. It took two trials in the supreme Court and a JIT with members of two different branches of military intelligence to collect barely enough evidence to disqualify Nawaz Sharif but that doesn't change the fact that people knew he was corrupt before the JIT found what it did so I don't see how you expect an individual to have evidence of similar quality on an institution far more powerful than Nawaz Sharif. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the military's less than legal or ethical activities are one of Donald Rumsfeld's proverbial known knowns. It happens and people, with the exception of your ilk, know it does. By all means for a JIT to probe the many allegations against them from various stakeholders in Pakistan.

I get all that.... if you remember I gave credit to [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION], he was upfront with his evidence coming from an uncle of a friend who had friend who was in the military.....

But, you said... there were academic papers that you had read. I asked you to present those papers that you mentioned yourself. I don't understand why you are not willing to share them.

 

[DW44]

I get all that.... if you remember I gave credit to [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION], he was upfront with his evidence coming from an uncle of a friend who had friend who was in the military.....

But, you said... there were academic papers that you had read. I asked you to present those papers that you mentioned yourself. I don't understand why you are not willing to share them.

Again, what does that have to do with this thread? I read voraciously and I came across something in the past I didn't bother to bookmark, how does that in any way detract from their misdeeds? If evidence is what you want, call your MNA and demand that the allegations against the army be probed. I'm sure a JIT will fulfil your desire for 'evidence'.

 

[Bewal Express]

Khakis are as low as it gets in Pakistan. It takes something truly extraordinary to make someone like NS seem palatable and the military pull that feat off with the grave of a ballerina. More corrupt, worse governance and responsible for the single biggest economic blunder in our history, the FTA with China.

No they are not. Its **** like the Sharifs and Zardaris that are worse. Why did you avoid the question of the doubling of the debt in 10 years?

 

[Syed1]

No they are not. Its **** like the Sharifs and Zardaris that are worse. Why did you avoid the question of the doubling of the debt in 10 years?

That is deep state sazish

 

[Syed1]

Again, what does that have to do with this thread? I read voraciously and I came across something in the past I didn't bother to bookmark, how does that in any way detract from their misdeeds? If evidence is what you want, call your MNA and demand that the allegations against the army be probed. I'm sure a JIT will fulfil your desire for 'evidence'.

What's your beef with JIT. The fact that it exposed your Noora so badly that you cannot even discretely defend him anymore and hide behind the veil of army sazish

 

[DW44]

You're persisting with this line that it was only 'just' enough evidence, when the fact of the matter is he's barely got through the start of what's to come for him, and his family, namely the NAB case, Model town incident, forged documents and contempt hearings. The only people bringing up Article 62/63 being used to disqualify him are those who wanna lay the blame on the Army pressuring the SC to make the decision, when the fact of the matter is, if you look at it constructively, the SC used these 2 articles to get rid of him, knowing full well there's no way he'll survive what's to come, because as you correctly pointed out there's mountains of evidence againt him/the Sharifs.

Again, there's a reason he was disqualified over the iqama and not the many other things hes guilty of. Most evidence was circumstantial and not of a standard that could be used to convict him in a court. Whatever else he is, he played his cards well and covered his tracks just well enough to not make things as easy as you're suggesting.

As for what the Army get up to, I can only take your word for it, all I know is it's fashionable to attack them and plenty of buffoons have made a career out of it and claiming they're corrupt, whilst not being able to explain why they've had billions worth of loans written off by governments

Yep, clearly no bias there, none whatsoever. That paragraph is clearly not indicative of which way you lean, no sir. On a serious note, it's not 'fashionable', it's a highly unpopular opinion that at best gets you personal attacks like the veiled ones Syed1 and Rishwat are currently directing at me and worst case scenario, you could end up like Salem Shehzad or Zeenat Shehzadi, two journalists who went missing with one turning up dead with torture marks on his body and the other still missing.

 

[DW44]

What's your beef with JIT. The fact that it exposed your Noora so badly that you cannot even discretely defend him anymore and hide behind the veil of army sazish

None whatsoever. I want a similar JIT for the army.

 

[DW44]

No they are not. Its **** like the Sharifs and Zardaris that are worse. Why did you avoid the question of the doubling of the debt in 10 years?

I didn't. I acknowledged that it's not great but if we're venturing into economic issues, it pales in comparison to the China FTA in terms of long term damage.

 

[saeedhk]

A huge embarrassment for N-League. A crowd of only 5 to 8 thousand people.

 

[super hitter]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Almost 10 months ago Imran Khan wanted to lock down Islamabad. Today the capital is literally locked down by the PML-N govt.</p>— Ali Salman Alvi (@alisalmanalvi) <a href="https://twitter.com/alisalmanalvi/status/895218947309670400">August 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And even embarrassing is the fact that its still not a lock down...

The 100-150 gathered are probably his security personals dressed in white.

And even more embarrassing is when the Government is out on roads against opposition and justice, that too taking about democracy.

 

[super hitter]

A huge embarrassment for N-League. A crowd of only 5 to 8 thousand people.

5-8 thousand, the latest clip I saw was bot even 1000 people, what are you saying!!!

 

[saeedhk]

5-8 thousand, the latest clip I saw was bot even 1000 people, what are you saying!!!

According to a government source. I reckon it was around 1000-2000 supporters at max.

 

[Syed1]

deep state sazish against Nawazo

 

[yasir]

Its like Game of Thrones, Army has played their cards, but they have to be careful, you cannot beat Politician in the court alone, they have to be beaten in public, the more they use power of establishment worse it can get for them...

What is Qadari doing in Pakistan once again? - That guy is pure mafia, only comes back to create Chaos, for him "Chaos is a ladder". He is using power of his 100K or so supporter more like an Army of 100K, who are ready to do whatever he asked them to do

NS is playing his cards well, they know their Castlerock is Punjab and Shabaz knows how to manage Punjab better than anybody else, they will be ready for elections in 10 months or so, they don't need a Shrief in Center ATM...

Imran Khan has to be careful and try to win the war on battle ground(in public), hiding behind Establishment can give him bad name and pose him as weak...This mantra of everybody should be disqualify (except the lotas who bend their knees to me), is not the way to go, don't follow the foot step of NS, see what is happening to him...if Establishment brings you to power, they will be calling the shots...

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Again, what does that have to do with this thread? I read voraciously and I came across something in the past I didn't bother to bookmark, how does that in any way detract from their misdeeds? If evidence is what you want, call your MNA and demand that the allegations against the army be probed. I'm sure a JIT will fulfil your desire for 'evidence'.

It's relevant because you are making slanderous accusations without providing any evidence except for just take my word for it. Even when it's supposedly an academic piece of work!!

So basically what you doing is reading and validating your own views and then spreading them as true without providing any evidence.... it's how fake news works

The lesson from trump election is that people who propagate fake news must be called out on it constantly.

 

[Asim_khan]

Again, there's a reason he was disqualified over the iqama and not the many other things hes guilty of. Most evidence was circumstantial and not of a standard that could be used to convict him in a court. Whatever else he is, he played his cards well and covered his tracks just well enough to not make things as easy as you're suggesting.

Cases are pending, the disqualification over Iqama is just the start, and was the maximum the SC could do with the evidence it had in hand, and the powers it has, NAB will be where they're publicly flogged. Forged documents, imaginary Qatari princes and wrong fonts are not covering your tracks well, in fact they aren't covering your tracks at all.

Yep, clearly no bias there, none whatsoever. That paragraph is clearly not indicative of which way you lean, no sir. On a serious note, it's not 'fashionable', it's a highly unpopular opinion that at best gets you personal attacks like the veiled ones Syed1 and Rishwat are currently directing at me and worst case scenario, you could end up like Salem Shehzad or Zeenat Shehzadi, two journalists who went missing with one turning up dead with torture marks on his body and the other still missing.

Of course it's fashionable, a woman is currently being championed in the Pakistani neo liberal press for her attacks on the Military in respect to its alleged involvement in the SC disqualificatio of NS, rather than the fact she has been exposed as having had billions worth of loans written off by successive governments, one of which she has vociferously disagreed with in the past, but now is a mouth piece for them. Similarly there's another gentleman who's made a whole career out of this, and he's somehow now been made the PCB chairman, today.

And I've just googled Zeenat Shehzadi, a human rights lawyer/journalist (??) who acted as the mouth piece for a gentleman from India who flew to Afghanistan, claiming he had a job opportunity and then tried sneak into Pakistan. His reason? he claimed he was trying to save a bride from a forced marriage in Pakistan. Bad luck to be doing that at a time where pretty much every terrorist attack in Pakistan has been committed by someone crossing that border. A prisoner of love.

 

[DW44]

It's relevant because you are making slanderous accusations without providing any evidence except for just take my word for it. Even when it's supposedly an academic piece of work!!

So basically what you doing is reading and validating your own views and then spreading them as true without providing any evidence.... it's how fake news works

The lesson from trump election is that people who propagate fake news must be called out on it constantly.

It is not because the evidence you demand can only be collected by a law enforcement agency and the ones in Pakistan aren't very keen on it. There is nothing slanderous about calling out a public institution that runs on my tax money when they commit daylight robbery even if they're politically strong enough to get away with it. By your logic, anyone accusing NS of corruption prior to the Supreme Court case was committing slander.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

It is not because the evidence you demand can only be collected by a law enforcement agency and the ones in Pakistan aren't very keen on it. There is nothing slanderous about calling out a public institution that runs on my tax money when they commit daylight robbery even if they're politically strong enough to get away with it. By your logic, anyone accusing NS of corruption prior to the Supreme Court case was committing slander.

No. The only piece I asked for were the academic papers you had read. And you are not forthcoming, even to the point that you cannot remember who wrote them. Which I find hard to believe considering how they would have validated your views.

 

[Bewal Express]

I didn't. I acknowledged that it's not great but if we're venturing into economic issues, it pales in comparison to the China FTA in terms of long term damage.

So the doubling the external debt is not big issue because these wonderful democrats did it, it wont be long before you say that corruption and money laundering isnt a big issue.

 

[DW44]

Cases are pending, the disqualification over Iqama is just the start, and was the maximum the SC could do with the evidence it had in hand, and the powers it has, NAB will be where they're publicly flogged. Forged documents, imaginary Qatari princes and wrong fonts are not covering your tracks well, in fact they aren't covering your tracks at all.

Well then let the proceedings begin and the evidence be put in front of a court before making claims about how much of it there is.

Of course it's fashionable, a woman is currently being championed in the Pakistani neo liberal press for her attacks on the Military in respect to its alleged involvement in the SC disqualificatio of NS, rather than the fact she has been exposed as having had billions worth of loans written off by successive governments, one of which she has vociferously disagreed with in the past, but now is a mouth piece for them. Similarly there's another gentleman who's made a whole career out of this, and he's somehow now been made the PCB chairman, today.

What neo liberal press, Pakistani media is overwhelmingly right leaning and the biggest media outlet, Bol, is essentially an extension of the army's public relations arm. That woman who's supposedly being championed by the supposed neo liberal press is public enemy number one in Pakistan and has been for decades. This is a country where photographs of her with Bal Thakray from a UN mandated fact finding mission on religious freedom in India were presented as proof that the two were in cahoots. The other gentleman you refer to is also similarly reviled and whatever his political associations may be, his views on the military are spot on.

And I've just googled Zeenat Shehzadi, a human rights lawyer/journalist (??) who acted as the mouth piece for a gentleman from India who flew to Afghanistan, claiming he had a job opportunity and then tried sneak into Pakistan. His reason? he claimed he was trying to save a bride from a forced marriage in Pakistan. Bad luck to be doing that at a time where pretty much every terrorist attack in Pakistan has been committed by someone crossing that border. A prisoner of love.

Since you're googling, please also google Saleem Shehzad, Waqar Goraya and Salman Haider too. Apparently every Pakistani opposed to the army's criminal activities is in some way connected to India or is a blasphemer.