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Need clarification : Why do Muslims not eat Pork?

SandyB

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Hi Fellow PP'ers,

I would like to be enlightened about the exact specific reason why Pork is haram, and the pig is considered as a bad animal in Islam.

1. Is it because of any religious incident in the Quran. ?

2. What was the status of pork in pre-Islamic arabia ? Was it eaten widely ?

3. Was any scientific basis provided by the scriptures AT THE TIME, for said ban ?

4. Is the dislike for Pork carried over from any other Abrahamic/Pagan beliefs existing at the time ?



If there is an older thread regarding this please merge this with that one.
 
My class mate in school back in 90's once told me that the inners of a Pig look very similar to humans. Hence you cannot eat it. Its like eating another human.

Another reason he gave me was that since Pigs eat human waste, it is considered impure. Any animal that eats another animal's feces is considered haram.

I wonder why it is banned for Jews also. Probably the same reason?
 
I don't know the exact nitty gritty, but Pig is considered an impure animal because it has no problem in consuming its own waste.
 
Pork domestication started in China..then it spread it to the globe.

Pork was introduced to Israel/palestine area by palestinian (sea people) who came from Mediterranean. and these people made settlement at the shores.

original inhabitants lived in hilly area and there was animosity between hill-people and shore people and hill people chose not to adopt pork.

and at around 2000BC (bronze age) to 1000 BC (iron age) these hill-people people transformed in to Israelite.

and their religious influence spread and before Islam pork consumption was not hot in Mecca so Islam carried over that choice.
 
Hi Fellow PP'ers,

I would like to be enlightened about the exact specific reason why Pork is haram, and the pig is considered as a bad animal in Islam.

1. Is it because of any religious incident in the Quran. ?

2. What was the status of pork in pre-Islamic arabia ? Was it eaten widely ?

3. Was any scientific basis provided by the scriptures AT THE TIME, for said ban ?

4. Is the dislike for Pork carried over from any other Abrahamic/Pagan beliefs existing at the time ?



If there is an older thread regarding this please merge this with that one.

Question: Why do Muslims not eat Pork?

Answer: Because Allah prohibit muslims to eat Pork in Holy Quran:

2:173
He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
 
From the diner scene in Pulp Fiction

Jules : "Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals."
Vincent : "But bacon tastes good"
Jules : "Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I wooildnt know because I won't eat the filthy ****. Pigs sleep and root in crap. That's a filthy animal. I don't eat nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces."
 
From the diner scene in Pulp Fiction

Jules : "Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals."
Vincent : "But bacon tastes good"
Jules : "Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I wooildnt know because I won't eat the filthy ****. Pigs sleep and root in crap. That's a filthy animal. I don't eat nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces."

EVer been to a Form?

All animals there are filthy. The cows have dung all over their back and they sleep there with its waste sticking all over its body.

Same with Sheeps, Goats etc.

All animals stink bro. Terrible smell.
 
Guys, frankly speaking, I don't understand the concept behind the pig being haram because of consuming it's own feces because I have seen goats consume their own urine. I saw this as a child and have avoided mutton ever since. I was told by my father that it was only "pahari" goats (poorly trained) that indulged in this practice and that the more expensive and goats kept as pets never did so. The next year, we got one such goat and even it did so, after which I was never able to eat goat. - So, pigs are haram for some other reason. I read that they have too many germs or something in their body.
 
Because the religion said so.

Basically this. I don't know why people bother looking for logical or scientific justification, it's prohibited in the Quran, if you want to be an observant Muslim then you won't eat it, if you don't care then you can eat what you like.
 
Basically this. I don't know why people bother looking for logical or scientific justification, it's prohibited in the Quran, if you want to be an observant Muslim then you won't eat it, if you don't care then you can eat what you like.

It's wrong to blindly follow a religion. We have brains, should use them. There is a logical or scientific justification behind every law in Islam.
 
Because our religion forbids it and so we have grown up being told not to consume it.

I am not very religious but I just can't even stand the smell of it. I would rather eat a dead elephant or even a cat if I had to live. But would rather die when it came to consuming pig meat.
 
Basically this. I don't know why people bother looking for logical or scientific justification, it's prohibited in the Quran, if you want to be an observant Muslim then you won't eat it, if you don't care then you can eat what you like.

Agreed. The Jewish and Muslim scriptures ordered their followers not to eat pork without giving reasons.

If you have faith in your religion than you will abstain from eating pork and not question the scriptures. If you do not faith than please go ahead and consume pork. Remember the Quaran says "there is no compulsion in religion"
 
Basically this. I don't know why people bother looking for logical or scientific justification, it's prohibited in the Quran, if you want to be an observant Muslim then you won't eat it, if you don't care then you can eat what you like.

Despite being very liberal in my beliefs, I agree. The fact that the Prohpet (Pbuh) and the Quran stop us from doing so should be enough a justification.
 
Agreed. The Jewish and Muslim scriptures ordered their followers not to eat pork without giving reasons.

If you have faith in your religion than you will abstain from eating pork and not question the scriptures. If you do not faith than please go ahead and consume pork. Remember the Quaran says "there is no compulsion in religion"

It's not good to have a closed mind. Thinking about decisions without cerebral religious infiltration is important. I'm not saying that you should question the religion, I'm just saying that you shouldn't blindly follow your religion.
 
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] should answer OP.
He is knowledgeable.
 
I know people hate Pig on this forum and i mean the animal not for consumption but there is enough evidence that if grown domestically in clean environment like dogs,they could be as loyal as well.
 
As others have mentioned, it is only because Islam said so. That is all. People clutch at straws when attempting to justify these things. Even pork was halal but mutton was haram, these champions of Islam would be justifying eating pork and not eating mutton.

For alcohol it is understandable because it really is a nuisance not just for yourself but for the society as well, but there is no logical rationale behind why pork is haram. All the common arguments that it is filthy, can cause diseases etc. are straw-man arguments. What if I raise pigs in carefully monitored environment and ensure that they don't eat anything dirty? Will those pigs be halal for consumption? If hygiene is a criteria, then perhaps goats and chickens should be haram as well, they are far from 'clean' animals. No animal is cleaner than a cat, so why aren't they halal?

As far as the diseases are concerned, these champions of Islam sprint away faster than Usain Bolt when you present them with a long list of diseases that can result from consuming beef. Again, if disease was the criteria, we should not be eating cows and buffalos either.
 
As others have mentioned, it is only because Islam said so. That is all. People clutch at straws when attempting to justify these things. Even pork was halal but mutton was haram, these champions of Islam would be justifying eating pork and not eating mutton.

For alcohol it is understandable because it really is a nuisance not just for yourself but for the society as well, but there is no logical rationale behind why pork is haram. All the common arguments that it is filthy, can cause diseases etc. are straw-man arguments. What if I raise pigs in carefully monitored environment and ensure that they don't eat anything dirty? Will those pigs be halal for consumption? If hygiene is a criteria, then perhaps goats and chickens should be haram as well, they are far from 'clean' animals. No animal is cleaner than a cat, so why aren't they halal?

As far as the diseases are concerned, these champions of Islam sprint away faster than Usain Bolt when you present them with a long list of diseases that can result from consuming beef. Again, if disease was the criteria, we should not be eating cows and buffalos either.

Exactly. Male goats consume their own urine and even participate in sexual acts with other male goats but they are halal because they are halal. There's no two ways about it.
 
The Koran says "If you fast it is better for you, if you only knew". There is no reason given

I have heard my Imam say "God is asking us to fast so that you can experience what the poor go through". In that case why should the poor fast.

Even the concept of God cannot be explained scientifically. You need to have faith.
 
It smells like crap so I don't eat it, just like how Alcohol smells like urine so I don't consume that either.

And in comparison to other animals the pig is P4P the filthiest.
 
Jesus/Eesa was one of our Prophet too. There are a lot of Prophets in Islam and Muhammad was the last one.

Jesus is a Prophet as per Islam.

Jesus never said he was a Muslim. Its only the Muslims that claim Jesus as a Muslim 700 years after his death.

Jesus was a born Jew and died a Jew.
 
Jesus is a Prophet as per Islam.

Jesus never said he was a Muslim. Its only the Muslims that claim Jesus as a Muslim 700 years after his death.

Jesus was a born Jew and died a Jew.

Ok. If that's what you believe then be it.:)
 
Hi Fellow PP'ers,

I would like to be enlightened about the exact specific reason why Pork is haram, and the pig is considered as a bad animal in Islam.

1. Is it because of any religious incident in the Quran. ?

2. What was the status of pork in pre-Islamic arabia ? Was it eaten widely ?

3. Was any scientific basis provided by the scriptures AT THE TIME, for said ban ?

4. Is the dislike for Pork carried over from any other Abrahamic/Pagan beliefs existing at the time ?



If there is an older thread regarding this please merge this with that one.

My class mate in school back in 90's once told me that the inners of a Pig look very similar to humans. Hence you cannot eat it. Its like eating another human.

Another reason he gave me was that since Pigs eat human waste, it is considered impure. Any animal that eats another animal's feces is considered haram.

I wonder why it is banned for Jews also. Probably the same reason?

I don't know the exact nitty gritty, but Pig is considered an impure animal because it has no problem in consuming its own waste.

Pork domestication started in China..then it spread it to the globe.

Pork was introduced to Israel/palestine area by palestinian (sea people) who came from Mediterranean. and these people made settlement at the shores.

original inhabitants lived in hilly area and there was animosity between hill-people and shore people and hill people chose not to adopt pork.

and at around 2000BC (bronze age) to 1000 BC (iron age) these hill-people people transformed in to Israelite.

and their religious influence spread and before Islam pork consumption was not hot in Mecca so Islam carried over that choice.

Question: Why do Muslims not eat Pork?

Answer: Because Allah prohibit muslims to eat Pork in Holy Quran:

From the diner scene in Pulp Fiction

Jules : "Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals."
Vincent : "But bacon tastes good"
Jules : "Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I wooildnt know because I won't eat the filthy ****. Pigs sleep and root in crap. That's a filthy animal. I don't eat nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces."


Guys, frankly speaking, I don't understand the concept behind the pig being haram because of consuming it's own feces because I have seen goats consume their own urine. I saw this as a child and have avoided mutton ever since. I was told by my father that it was only "pahari" goats (poorly trained) that indulged in this practice and that the more expensive and goats kept as pets never did so. The next year, we got one such goat and even it did so, after which I was never able to eat goat. - So, pigs are haram for some other reason. I read that they have too many germs or something in their body.

Because the religion said so.

Because our religion forbids it and so we have grown up being told not to consume it.

I am not very religious but I just can't even stand the smell of it. I would rather eat a dead elephant or even a cat if I had to live. But would rather die when it came to consuming pig meat.

I know people hate Pig on this forum and i mean the animal not for consumption but there is enough evidence that if grown domestically in clean environment like dogs,they could be as loyal as well.

As others have mentioned, it is only because Islam said so. That is all. People clutch at straws when attempting to justify these things. Even pork was halal but mutton was haram, these champions of Islam would be justifying eating pork and not eating mutton.

For alcohol it is understandable because it really is a nuisance not just for yourself but for the society as well, but there is no logical rationale behind why pork is haram. All the common arguments that it is filthy, can cause diseases etc. are straw-man arguments. What if I raise pigs in carefully monitored environment and ensure that they don't eat anything dirty? Will those pigs be halal for consumption? If hygiene is a criteria, then perhaps goats and chickens should be haram as well, they are far from 'clean' animals. No animal is cleaner than a cat, so why aren't they halal?

As far as the diseases are concerned, these champions of Islam sprint away faster than Usain Bolt when you present them with a long list of diseases that can result from consuming beef. Again, if disease was the criteria, we should not be eating cows and buffalos either.

It smells like crap so I don't eat it, just like how Alcohol smells like urine so I don't consume that either.

And in comparison to other animals the pig is P4P the filthiest.

That's commitment.

Jesus/Eesa was one of our Prophet too. There are a lot of Prophets in Islam and Muhammad was the last one.

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] should answer OP.
He is knowledgeable.




Holy Quran has mentioned PIg as " Najass "


When you talk about " Najass " than the debate of Health won't come in between the argument. Question can be raised, Why ?

Because when you raise the points of Health than there are many other animals which are not haraam (not prohibited from eating) so you will be struck in this dilemma than the Fat of X animal cannot be eaten because it can create Cardiac issues. Furthermore this can be said aswell that what is than the downside of eating lean meat of Pig if there is no fats in it than what are ill effects of eating it ?


This is why this argument of Health related disadvantages is just a waste of time, there are nothing significant in these debates.


Holy Quran has called it " Najass "


Najass means that some of the habits of Pig are filthy. And this prohibition is a protest against those habits.


Two such things which are present in this Animal is that :


1. Amongst animals, you would find homosexuality orientation most in this animal Pig.

2. If the need arises it eats its own young ones aswell. Although Carnivorous animals do not do this. When Pigs young ones die it even eats them.


These two habbits of Pigs are so Impious & putrid that Islam has prohibited this.


Once in University of London there was a Coffee break and all the classfellows were discuss this when a Muslim Student gave this explanation. A girl stood up and said :

What is the bad effect of homosexuality ?


The Muslim boy said that you proved my point right that those who eat Pork do not see ill-effects of homosexuality, so this is the reason that it is Prohibited :) :) hehe :djb :ronaldo


Today in World this debate is ongoing. People say that what if somebody is a homosexual you can even become Minister of religion while being homosexual.


There is even a bigger Finesse in this Prohibition, that is Allah is the Creator and He has taught us that without my permission you cannot kill any animal. Every Animal has its Incest. This is why we say Bismillah, Allah o Akbar before slaughtering an animal to say that we are doing this after permission of Allah SWT otherwise from myside I do not have the right to kill any living organism. This is why it is only permitted to kill those worms which can harm humans (self defense). This is why Islam does not permit killing those animals which are not for Eating.


So this is principle of Islam that Life is the property of Allah and without Allah's permission you cannot take blood of any animals (cannot kill).


Now if Allah Prohibits that you cannot eat an animal, so Allah is the Master, Owner, Lord and so if we eat Pork than all things we eat will be of forced as it won't be through permission of Allah just like even if you don't have a right to something you steal it.

And if and where Allah stops you from something and you stop than the other eatables become halaal (allowed) aswell because they are under permission.


So the Main question is that whether Creator (Allah) has the right or not ? So if we accept that He is the Creator and the Owner that if He says don't eat this than what is the right of us to question HIM that prove us that why we should not eat this ?


This One Prohibition has taught Us a golden principle that whatever we do we do it with Allah's permission and where there is no permission we should stop there.


When you tell people all this than you will know that mostly this question is asked as a result of Atheism. Because in Atheism there is no Concept of God, no concept of Belief. They think that we do not eat it because of suspicion and if we are not taught scientifically that why we shouldn't stop eating it we won't stop.


While we Muslims have a totally different Point of View of stopping here there is no debate of Science.

Even if Today I am able to tell something Scientifically than why for 1500 years Muslims stopped themselves from eating Pork ? So whether Science is in favour or against it is good for debate but A Muslim will stop himself from doing this because of Allah's order.

Most importantly this prohibition is also for those who are consuming Pork. One more counter question one should ask is that in this Islam came at Number 3. First Judaism prohibited it and Prophet Jesus AS did not declare it Halal. Show Us where He AS declared it Halal ? So first you tell that why in Judaism it was prohibited ? Prove it with wisdom than we will see whether there is a logic or not.

We the Muslims stop ourselves because God told us to do so, So if you want to stop from eating that first tell Us the Philosophy of Judaism and tell that with Jesus AS not permitting it why you declared a prohibited thing as allowed ? What was the Authority with You ?
 
"Muslim is one who submits to the Will of the one true God" - Koran

This means that anyone who submits to God is a Muslim. Christians, Jews , Hindus, Buddists, New Age practtioners etc who submit to God are Muslims. Jesus was a Muslim even though he was not a Mohammedan
 
Ok. If that's what you believe then be it.:)

Its not what I believe. Its common sense to me.

If this is the case, Hindus can consider than Jesus was a Hindu. Or Buddhists might consider than Jesus was a Buddhist.

You cannot claim something or someone who was born centuries before and that too when the said person never claimed to be a Muslim or Hindu or a Buddhist.
 
"Muslim is one who submits to the Will of the one true God" - Koran

This means that anyone who submits to God is a Muslim. Christians, Jews , Hindus, Buddists, New Age practtioners etc who submit to God are Muslims. Jesus was a Muslim even though he was not a Mohammedan

So Muslim and Mohammeden are different. Got it.

Anyone who submits to the will of God is a Muslim. Even if they submit to Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Thor etc. So all orthodox followers of all religions are Muslims.
 
It's wrong to blindly follow a religion. We have brains, should use them. There is a logical or scientific justification behind every law in Islam.

You can use your brain and decide whatever you want, just don't start putting logic or science to a prohibition where there was no logical or scientific reason given in the Quran. No one says you have to blindly follow anything. But for all you know, there might be a completely different reason for pork being haram than some of the theories that are usually flung around.
 
So Muslim and Mohammeden are different. Got it.

Anyone who submits to the will of God is a Muslim. Even if they submit to Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Thor etc. So all orthodox followers of all religions are Muslims.

Nope. All the prophets were Muslims in a way and the religions that they preached were all fundamentally Islam. Though the final and most comprehensive version of Islam was preached by prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is why Muslims have to believe in all the prophets and all the scriptures besides the Quran as well. However we do not believe in the current versions of those religions because we believe they have been altered from their original form. For example we believe that Jesus was just like any other prophet of Allah however Christians started believing he was the son of God. We believe that the original version of the bible did not teach that. The Quran however is the exact same as it was during the time of the prophet Muhammad pbuh. Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) had the idea to compile the Quran into one book however each word and the order of the Surahs etc remained the same and is still the same to this day and will remain the same till the day of judgement.
 
So Muslim and Mohammeden are different. Got it.

Anyone who submits to the will of God is a Muslim. Even if they submit to Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Thor etc. So all orthodox followers of all religions are Muslims.


This is a seperate debate which is not relevent to this thread. You can ask this from Muslim Members on " What do you know about Islam " thread.


There are 73 Sects of Islam and there will be atleast 20 different interpretations addressing your question.


For me all the True Prophets including those Hindu Prophets (whom you do not consider Prophets) were all Muslim starting from Prophet Adam.


Allah only Created One Religion. We Muslims call it Islam. Allah did not differenciate between his Creation (Humans) by giving different groups different religion. He Created One religion. It is us who divided ourselves based on our Understanding.


There was One Religion only. It started with Prophet Adam As and in this Journey thousands of Prophets came and the Religion got evolved and ultimately got complete with Mohammad Pbuh.


So All True Prophets of Allah were Muslim as per Islam.


Heck why would Allah differenciate between His most loved ones (Prophets) by giving them different religions ? It was a Single Tree (Religion) with different Leaves.(Prophets)


Incase you have questions or comments debate in that thread.
 
Its not what I believe. Its common sense to me.

If this is the case, Hindus can consider than Jesus was a Hindu. Or Buddhists might consider than Jesus was a Buddhist.

You cannot claim something or someone who was born centuries before and that too when the said person never claimed to be a Muslim or Hindu or a Buddhist.

According to Quran and hadeeths, Islam was there even before the first human, Prophet Adam was descended down to earth. And there was 3 other holy books out there given through Moses (thouraat), Dawood/david (zaboor) and Eesa/jesus(Injeel) at different period according to its needs and guide the people on the path of God. This thouraat is the holy book of jews taurah and injeel was similar to the old testament of bible. But as time progressed these holy books got corrupted by human actions and Allah had to give the message in the most uncorrupted form to the rest of human civilisation. And that is the Quran.
 
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According to Quran and hadeeths, Islam was there even before the first human, Prophet Adam was descended down to earth. And there was 3 other holy books out there given through Moses (thouraat), Dawood/david (zaboor) and Eesa/jesus(Injeel) at different period according to its needs and guide the people on the path of God. This thouraat is the holy book of jews taurah and injeel was similar to the old testament of bible. But as time progressed these holy books got corrupted by human actions and Allah had to give the message in the most uncorrupted form to the rest of human civilisation. And that is the Quran.

Not satisfied.

I was looking for some references from Bible or Jewish Taurah regarding Allah and Muslim. Not what you wrote.
 
Not satisfied.

I was looking for some references from Bible or Jewish Taurah regarding Allah and Muslim. Not what you wrote.

Well that would be contradictory. We believe that those books have been heavily altered so why should we go around digging for references in them?
 
Well that would be contradictory. We believe that those books have been heavily altered so why should we go around digging for references in them?

So no proof anywhere then. Just claims.

Anybody can claim without proof then.
 
So no proof anywhere then. Just claims.

Anybody can claim without proof then.

Every single word in those books could be fabricated according to Muslims so it would be strange if we were to go around looking for proof in them. Religion is based on faith so no I don't have any proof that all prophets were fundamentally preaching Islam but it is what I firmly believe and the Quran suggests it as well. There is proof that the Quran is the same as it was at the start just like there is proof that all the other books have been altered
 
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Every single word in those books could be fabricated according to Muslims so it would be strange if we were to go around looking for proof in them. Religion is based on faith so no I don't have any proof that all prophets were fundamentally preaching Islam but it is what I firmly believe and the Quran suggests it as well. There is proof that the Quran is the same as it was at the start just like there is proof that all the other books have been altered

Respect your answer.
 
On topic, eating all meat is bad for you and pig is no different. Pig may be singled out by Islam perhaps due to some reasoning that may have made sense in 6th century AD. However, today there's no scientific reason to believe pork is any more harmful than beef and other red meat. Most animals in western countries are farmed almost exactly the same way, fed the same diet, etc.
 
Pigs are the filthiest animals out there, why would anyone want to eat animals who eat their own poo in large quantities, drink their own urine and often mate with the same sex? also, how can anyone even get past the god awful smell and bad odour the meat leaves after it has been cooked. Forget Muslims, there are many non-muslims who do not eat that thing. Ewww just ewwww.
 
On topic, eating all meat is bad for you and pig is no different. Pig may be singled out by Islam perhaps due to some reasoning that may have made sense in 6th century AD. However, today there's no scientific reason to believe pork is any more harmful than beef and other red meat. Most animals in western countries are farmed almost exactly the same way, fed the same diet, etc.

Not every animal is the same when it comes to their nature, they are very unique and have distinct traits regardless of how they are farmed.

Give a Pig and a Goat a Burger meal, the Goat will eat the Burger meal and go chill out or something. The Pig would eat the Burger meal, take a dump, eat the dump and then look for whatever else it can eat even if it weren't hungry.
 
Holy Quran has mentioned PIg as " Najass "


When you talk about " Najass " than the debate of Health won't come in between the argument. Question can be raised, Why ?

Because when you raise the points of Health than there are many other animals which are not haraam (not prohibited from eating) so you will be struck in this dilemma than the Fat of X animal cannot be eaten because it can create Cardiac issues. Furthermore this can be said aswell that what is than the downside of eating lean meat of Pig if there is no fats in it than what are ill effects of eating it ?


This is why this argument of Health related disadvantages is just a waste of time, there are nothing significant in these debates.


Holy Quran has called it " Najass "


Najass means that some of the habits of Pig are filthy. And this prohibition is a protest against those habits.


Two such things which are present in this Animal is that :


1. Amongst animals, you would find homosexuality orientation most in this animal Pig.

2. If the need arises it eats its own young ones aswell. Although Carnivorous animals do not do this. When Pigs young ones die it even eats them.


These two habbits of Pigs are so Impious & putrid that Islam has prohibited this.


Once in University of London there was a Coffee break and all the classfellows were discuss this when a Muslim Student gave this explanation. A girl stood up and said :

What is the bad effect of homosexuality ?


The Muslim boy said that you proved my point right that those who eat Pork do not see ill-effects of homosexuality, so this is the reason that it is Prohibited :) :) hehe :djb :ronaldo


Today in World this debate is ongoing. People say that what if somebody is a homosexual you can even become Minister of religion while being homosexual.


There is even a bigger Finesse in this Prohibition, that is Allah is the Creator and He has taught us that without my permission you cannot kill any animal. Every Animal has its Incest. This is why we say Bismillah, Allah o Akbar before slaughtering an animal to say that we are doing this after permission of Allah SWT otherwise from myside I do not have the right to kill any living organism. This is why it is only permitted to kill those worms which can harm humans (self defense). This is why Islam does not permit killing those animals which are not for Eating.


So this is principle of Islam that Life is the property of Allah and without Allah's permission you cannot take blood of any animals (cannot kill).


Now if Allah Prohibits that you cannot eat an animal, so Allah is the Master, Owner, Lord and so if we eat Pork than all things we eat will be of forced as it won't be through permission of Allah just like even if you don't have a right to something you steal it.

And if and where Allah stops you from something and you stop than the other eatables become halaal (allowed) aswell because they are under permission.


So the Main question is that whether Creator (Allah) has the right or not ? So if we accept that He is the Creator and the Owner that if He says don't eat this than what is the right of us to question HIM that prove us that why we should not eat this ?


This One Prohibition has taught Us a golden principle that whatever we do we do it with Allah's permission and where there is no permission we should stop there.


When you tell people all this than you will know that mostly this question is asked as a result of Atheism. Because in Atheism there is no Concept of God, no concept of Belief. They think that we do not eat it because of suspicion and if we are not taught scientifically that why we shouldn't stop eating it we won't stop.


While we Muslims have a totally different Point of View of stopping here there is no debate of Science.

Even if Today I am able to tell something Scientifically than why for 1500 years Muslims stopped themselves from eating Pork ? So whether Science is in favour or against it is good for debate but A Muslim will stop himself from doing this because of Allah's order.

Most importantly this prohibition is also for those who are consuming Pork. One more counter question one should ask is that in this Islam came at Number 3. First Judaism prohibited it and Prophet Jesus AS did not declare it Halal. Show Us where He AS declared it Halal ? So first you tell that why in Judaism it was prohibited ? Prove it with wisdom than we will see whether there is a logic or not.

We the Muslims stop ourselves because God told us to do so, So if you want to stop from eating that first tell Us the Philosophy of Judaism and tell that with Jesus AS not permitting it why you declared a prohibited thing as allowed ? What was the Authority with You ?


Assalamoalaikum Hadi brother. Forgot to tag you.

Kaifal Haal ?

[MENTION=57506]hadi123[/MENTION]
 
Pork was not popular in the middle east even pre islam. One hypothesis that many anthropologists support is that pigs were often infected with a parasitic worm leading to a disease called trichinosis. Meat infected with the parasite was extremely disgusting to look at and since no treatment was available for it in those days pork was regarded as unhealthy. This line of thinking was further strengthened by the spread of Judaism and Islam just reinforced the ideas already in place. Another argument is that cattle and poultry were preferred to pigs because cattle could be more easily herded by nomads while poultry was small enough to be transported while pigs presented the problem of preserving the large amount of meat once slaughtered.
 
Coz unlike edible animals a pig itself is a dirty animal eating filth. It's fast digestive system means even after being cooked all the filth it has eaten remains in it's stomach. As a result people who eat it also do so what the pig has done by default. By comparison a goat, chicken or any animal that Muslim's do eat only feed on grass or seeds.
 
On topic, eating all meat is bad for you and pig is no different. Pig may be singled out by Islam perhaps due to some reasoning that may have made sense in 6th century AD. However, today there's no scientific reason to believe pork is any more harmful than beef and other red meat. Most animals in western countries are farmed almost exactly the same way, fed the same diet, etc.

The topic isn't about the dangers of a meat diet, that said I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this claim.
 
Coz unlike edible animals a pig itself is a dirty animal eating filth. It's fast digestive system means even after being cooked all the filth it has eaten remains in it's stomach. As a result people who eat it also do so what the pig has done by default. By comparison a goat, chicken or any animal that Muslim's do eat only feed on grass or seeds.

I pray that you are trolling but what do you do - or other Muslims do - that goats, chicken, cows and fish have done, since you have taken 'you are what you eat' to a whole new level?
 
Simply because Allah the Most High has commanded us not to. There are many reasons why human beings, whether Muslim or not, should stay away from it however. Not only is the animal itself filthy, it is the most unhealthy domesticated animal that people consume and especially in places like the Middle East, the meat goes bad very quickly.

If the Creator commands you to do something, there is a good reason behind it, whether you know of it or not.
 
Mash'Allah nice article lil' paratha.

I want to eat bison. Anybody know if it's halal?

It's a herbivore and not much different from cattle so I would think it is. Pakpassion's is hardly the right place to ask these sort of questions though. Best to go to your local imam.
 
It does not matter what the pig eats, does or smells like. It's forbidden to eat it because it is the order of the Almighty. We hear and we obey because we believe that the Qur'an and the Sunnah is the ultimate truth from God revealed through his Messenger(pbuh).

The scientific facts are irrelevant.
 
Hi Fellow PP'ers,

I would like to be enlightened about the exact specific reason why Pork is haram, and the pig is considered as a bad animal in Islam.

1. Is it because of any religious incident in the Quran. ?

2. What was the status of pork in pre-Islamic arabia ? Was it eaten widely ?

3. Was any scientific basis provided by the scriptures AT THE TIME, for said ban ?

4. Is the dislike for Pork carried over from any other Abrahamic/Pagan beliefs existing at the time ?



If there is an older thread regarding this please merge this with that one.
In the Abrahamic religions, there is the concept of "unclean animals", or more accurately "impure animals", with slight variations in each religion as to which are included/excluded. Generally speaking, with the exception of fish/seafood, insects and animals that eat meat / other animals are forbidden. The origins of these exclusions, if analysed, are almost certainly based upon hygene, disease and human health, just as the origins of kosher/halal involve the removal/draining of blood from the animal, and thus most of the diseases that are carried in the blood.

If you think about it, pigs are very unclean animals. Couple that with the fact that pork is more prone to disease and the meat goes off more quickly, and it's easy to understand why pork would have been forbidden by both Muslims and Jews in the hot dusty conditions thousands of years ago.
 
It does not matter what the pig eats, does or smells like. It's forbidden to eat it because it is the order of the Almighty. We hear and we obey because we believe that the Qur'an and the Sunnah is the ultimate truth from God revealed through his Messenger(pbuh).

The scientific facts are irrelevant.
Everything related to food in Islam has it's origins/basis in regards to human health and hygene. Try analysing it by putting yourself back thousands of years to the hot and dusty environment of that region of the world and then you'll realise the (original) logic behind it all.

Unfortunately, the so called religious 'educated' (vast majority of whom are completely ignorant and blinkered when it comes to logical thought processes) don't seem to understand that all the rules in Islam had real, down to earth, reasons behind them all in terms of the prevailing social and environmental conditions as of 1500+ years ago.
 
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Everything related to food in Islam has it's origins/basis in regards to human health and hygene. Try analysing it by putting yourself back thousands of years to the hot and dusty environment of that region of the world and then you'll realise the (original) logic behind it all.

Unfortunately, the so called religious 'educated' (vast majority of whom are completely ignorant and blinkered when it comes to logical thought processes) don't seem to understand that all the rules in Islam had real, down to earth, reasons behind them all in terms of the prevailing social and environmental conditions as of 1500+ years ago.
That's true if one wants to explain the benefits behind it but that's not why we don't eat pork. One has already gone through this logical process when he/she decided to believe that The Qur'an and Hadith is revelation from God.
 
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I pray that you are trolling but what do you do - or other Muslims do - that goats, chicken, cows and fish have done, since you have taken 'you are what you eat' to a whole new level?

No I am serious. My views are based on research I have done. Not getting what you mean from "or other Muslims" on wards.
 
I pray that you are trolling but what do you do - or other Muslims do - that goats, chicken, cows and fish have done, since you have taken 'you are what you eat' to a whole new level?

Do you eat pork? And what's your view on this?
 
Nope. All the prophets were Muslims in a way and the religions that they preached were all fundamentally Islam. Though the final and most comprehensive version of Islam was preached by prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is why Muslims have to believe in all the prophets and all the scriptures besides the Quran as well. However we do not believe in the current versions of those religions because we believe they have been altered from their original form. For example we believe that Jesus was just like any other prophet of Allah however Christians started believing he was the son of God. We believe that the original version of the bible did not teach that. The Quran however is the exact same as it was during the time of the prophet Muhammad pbuh. Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) had the idea to compile the Quran into one book however each word and the order of the Surahs etc remained the same and is still the same to this day and will remain the same till the day of judgement.

Eventually it all boils down to your belief.Isn't that what [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] said anyway? I can start a new religion right now and claim Jesus as mine, can you disapprove that? That's what I don't like about the religious people.You wanna believe in something even if it's completely stupid, sure go ahead but just don't go around trying to rationalise your beliefs or find logic in them because there isn't any.Faith is all about surrendering your rationality.
 
According to Quran and hadeeths , Islam was there even before the first human, Prophet Adam was descended down to earth. And there was 3 other holy books out there given through Moses (thouraat), Dawood/david (zaboor) and Eesa/jesus(Injeel) at different period according to its needs and guide the people on the path of God. This thouraat is the holy book of jews taurah and injeel was similar to the old testament of bible. But as time progressed these holy books got corrupted by human actions and Allah had to give the message in the most uncorrupted form to the rest of human civilisation. And that is the Quran.

Exactly.According to them and not Jesus himself or Moses before him or David or Abraham.Do you see the flaw in your argument?
 
Pork domestication started in China..then it spread it to the globe.

Pork was introduced to Israel/palestine area by palestinian (sea people) who came from Mediterranean. and these people made settlement at the shores.

original inhabitants lived in hilly area and there was animosity between hill-people and shore people and hill people chose not to adopt pork.

and at around 2000BC (bronze age) to 1000 BC (iron age) these hill-people people transformed in to Israelite.

and their religious influence spread and before Islam pork consumption was not hot in Mecca so Islam carried over that choice.

Thanks [MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION].

I was precisely looking for something like this.

I like to believe that all the religious books which command adherence to a specific way of life were all written in a bygone era, so during compilation, they would've tried to include existing social/dietary/ethical systems, while correcting ONLY what they felt needed to be changed.

Sort of like how a (desi) programmer writes a code . You don't write the entire program from scratch , you take the structure/code of pre-existing programs and change only wherever you need to change.

Guys, frankly speaking, I don't understand the concept behind the pig being haram because of consuming it's own feces because I have seen goats consume their own urine. I saw this as a child and have avoided mutton ever since. I was told by my father that it was only "pahari" goats (poorly trained) that indulged in this practice and that the more expensive and goats kept as pets never did so. The next year, we got one such goat and even it did so, after which I was never able to eat goat. - So, pigs are haram for some other reason. I read that they have too many germs or something in their body.

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION]

This question has affected me to . Being from an Indian state that consumes all possible kinds of meat (Chicken, mutton, pork, beef, duck, rabbit, birds etc etc ), I've been to poultry farms and slaughter houses of all these animals.

The "eating your own filth/urine", "eating meat" arguments can be extended to most poultry animals. Rabbits are known to eat their young ones, ducks frequently eat their own filth and worms, many poultry farms feed meat/fat content to cows and buffaloes to improve the weight of the meat. All of this depends on how hygienic you choose to make their surroundings.


Regarding your 2nd para,

I too have read that the DNA of pork has a bit more similarity to Humans compared to other poultry, which is why flu's like H1N1 would use the Pigs body as hosts to transform or evolve into newer strains.

SO maybe (just a theory) at that particular time in the middle east , there may have been disease which could've been spreading through pigs so it was written out as a preventive measure.

Basically this. I don't know why people bother looking for logical or scientific justification, it's prohibited in the Quran, if you want to be an observant Muslim then you won't eat it, if you don't care then you can eat what you like.

Despite being very liberal in my beliefs, I agree. The fact that the Prohpet (Pbuh) and the Quran stop us from doing so should be enough a justification.

I have got that answer from all my Muslim friends, but I asked this here for a more detailed/nuanced answer.

Me being a hindu from south India, our version of Hinduism has far too many diverse/strange rituals, beliefs and practices than even that of that people up north, many of which are over 1000-1500 years old. I've tried to dig deep into many of them and was surprised to come across many historical/scientific basis of why they came about in the first place.

I'm just extending the same curiosity to other faiths. BECAUSE GOD SAID SO just doesn't cut it for me. There is always a reason for everything. . I'm not questioning your faith, think of this as looking at alternate viewpoints , purely for educational purposes.
 
كل حلال طاهر
Everything that is Halal is pure (meat of cow)
، وليس كل طاهر حلالاً
But not everything that is pure is Halal (eg Semen)
.. وكل نجس حرام،
Everything that is impure is haram (urine)
وليس كل حرام نجساً
But not everything that is haram is impure (eg dead housefly, alcohol )


Flesh of a Swine has been labelled as رجس which means impure/filthy in al-An’aam 6:145.

An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said, commenting on the words of ash-Shiraazi quoted above: In his book al-Ijmaa‘, Ibn al-Mundhir narrated that there was scholarly consensus on the impurity of pigs, and this is the strongest evidence, if it is proven that there is consensus. But the view of Maalik is that pigs are pure so long as they are alive. With regard to the argument presented by the author [i.e., ash-Shiraazi], the same argument was presented by others without evidence. We do not have any clear evidence to suggest that pigs are impure when they are alive.

End quote from al-Majmoo‘, 2/568


So that's that. It is simply a matter of faith
 
Faith demands that God knows what is best for human beings even if we don't get it prima facie. So as Muslims believe flesh of swine is haram, it at the same time demands that it must be for the benefit of a person abstaining from pig meat. Now people may come up with medical reasons which show that swine flesh is bad, but it still may or may not be why God forbid swine flesh. The reason may be entirely different.
 
The fact of the matter is, there's a lot of things you can't prove. Science is not the advance yet. It took thousands of years for science to prove things that had been written in Holy scriptures dating back to the times of the Prophets and therefore, we must believe. That is what our religion is all about. Faith.

You can question the authenticity of a Hadis, a Sunnat or anything similar in nature. You can disagree with the consensus of opinion formed by Ulema, you can disagree with a fatwa - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But what's in the Quran, is in the Quran and that is the final and absolute word of God.
 
The fact of the matter is, there's a lot of things you can't prove. Science is not the advance yet. It took thousands of years for science to prove things that had been written in Holy scriptures dating back to the times of the Prophets and therefore, we must believe. That is what our religion is all about. Faith.

You can question the authenticity of a Hadis, a Sunnat or anything similar in nature. You can disagree with the consensus of opinion formed by Ulema, you can disagree with a fatwa - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But what's in the Quran, is in the Quran and that is the final and absolute word of God.

Na. Consensus can't be disagreed with provided consensus can be proven.

روى الترمذي (2167) عَنْ ابْنِ عُمَرَ رضي الله عنهما أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : ( إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَجْمَعُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ضَلَالَةٍ ، وَيَدُ اللَّهِ مَعَ الْجَمَاعَةِ )

At-Tirmidhi (2167) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).

The meaning of this hadith is that Allah has protected the scholars of the ummah of Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) from unanimously agreeing upon something false.

There are certain conditions for ijmaa‘, such as:

1. It should be soundly proven in the sense that it is either well known among the scholars or transmitted by a trustworthy narrator who has read widely.

2. It should not have been preceded by a well-known difference of opinion. If that was the case, then there is no ijmaa‘, because scholarly opinions are not invalidated by the death of their authors.

Ijmaa‘ does not cancel out a previous difference of opinion; rather it prevents differences of opinion from arising.
 
Na. Consensus can't be disagreed with provided consensus can be proven.

روى الترمذي (2167) عَنْ ابْنِ عُمَرَ رضي الله عنهما أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : ( إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَجْمَعُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ضَلَالَةٍ ، وَيَدُ اللَّهِ مَعَ الْجَمَاعَةِ )

At-Tirmidhi (2167) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).

The meaning of this hadith is that Allah has protected the scholars of the ummah of Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) from unanimously agreeing upon something false.

There are certain conditions for ijmaa‘, such as:

1. It should be soundly proven in the sense that it is either well known among the scholars or transmitted by a trustworthy narrator who has read widely.

2. It should not have been preceded by a well-known difference of opinion. If that was the case, then there is no ijmaa‘, because scholarly opinions are not invalidated by the death of their authors.

Ijmaa‘ does not cancel out a previous difference of opinion; rather it prevents differences of opinion from arising.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with that for a few reasons. You can have a consensus of opinion among the likes of Zakir Naik and other "Ulema" on "Peace" TV but I wouldn't believe it. It's just the simple fact that I don't consider these people to be saints and decide the future of the Muslim Umma or what the Muslim Umma should or should not do.
 
As others have mentioned, it is only because Islam said so. That is all. People clutch at straws when attempting to justify these things. Even pork was halal but mutton was haram, these champions of Islam would be justifying eating pork and not eating mutton.

For alcohol it is understandable because it really is a nuisance not just for yourself but for the society as well, but there is no logical rationale behind why pork is haram. All the common arguments that it is filthy, can cause diseases etc. are straw-man arguments. What if I raise pigs in carefully monitored environment and ensure that they don't eat anything dirty? Will those pigs be halal for consumption? If hygiene is a criteria, then perhaps goats and chickens should be haram as well, they are far from 'clean' animals. No animal is cleaner than a cat, so why aren't they halal?

As far as the diseases are concerned, these champions of Islam sprint away faster than Usain Bolt when you present them with a long list of diseases that can result from consuming beef. Again, if disease was the criteria, we should not be eating cows and buffalos either.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] . I fully agree. Scientific basis for "why pork meat is bad" were all discovered later , in an attempt to rationalize what was written in the scriptures. You ask a north indian hindu he'd give similar reasoning why "Beef is unhealthy". You ask a vegan he'd give similar resoning why "all meat is unhealthy". A jain would tell you scientifically why "anything growing underground is unhealthy".

Scientific facts discovered in recent times cannot be used to justify something that was written centuries ago, scientifically . Either there was a justification given at that time, or it was arbitrarily written .



Exactly. Male goats consume their own urine and even participate in sexual acts with other male goats but they are halal because they are halal. There's no two ways about it.
Pigs are the filthiest animals out there, why would anyone want to eat animals who eat their own poo in large quantities, drink their own urine and often mate with the same sex? also, how can anyone even get past the god awful smell and bad odour the meat leaves after it has been cooked. Forget Muslims, there are many non-muslims who do not eat that thing. Ewww just ewwww.


Fact is you can raise poultry under properly supervised circumstances and avoid any if the behaviors you accuse pigs of having and alternately raise most other poultry to replicate all of pig's behaviors.

Holy Quran has mentioned PIg as " Najass "


When you talk about " Najass " than the debate of Health won't come in between the argument. Question can be raised, Why ?

Because when you raise the points of Health than there are many other animals which are not haraam (not prohibited from eating) so you will be struck in this dilemma than the Fat of X animal cannot be eaten because it can create Cardiac issues. Furthermore this can be said aswell that what is than the downside of eating lean meat of Pig if there is no fats in it than what are ill effects of eating it ?


This is why this argument of Health related disadvantages is just a waste of time, there are nothing significant in these debates.


Holy Quran has called it " Najass "


Najass means that some of the habits of Pig are filthy. And this prohibition is a protest against those habits.


Two such things which are present in this Animal is that :


1. Amongst animals, you would find homosexuality orientation most in this animal Pig.

2. If the need arises it eats its own young ones aswell. Although Carnivorous animals do not do this. When Pigs young ones die it even eats them.


These two habbits of Pigs are so Impious & putrid that Islam has prohibited this.


Once in University of London there was a Coffee break and all the classfellows were discuss this when a Muslim Student gave this explanation. A girl stood up and said :

What is the bad effect of homosexuality ?


The Muslim boy said that you proved my point right that those who eat Pork do not see ill-effects of homosexuality, so this is the reason that it is Prohibited :) :) hehe :djb :ronaldo


Today in World this debate is ongoing. People say that what if somebody is a homosexual you can even become Minister of religion while being homosexual.


There is even a bigger Finesse in this Prohibition, that is Allah is the Creator and He has taught us that without my permission you cannot kill any animal. Every Animal has its Incest. This is why we say Bismillah, Allah o Akbar before slaughtering an animal to say that we are doing this after permission of Allah SWT otherwise from myside I do not have the right to kill any living organism. This is why it is only permitted to kill those worms which can harm humans (self defense). This is why Islam does not permit killing those animals which are not for Eating.


So this is principle of Islam that Life is the property of Allah and without Allah's permission you cannot take blood of any animals (cannot kill).


Now if Allah Prohibits that you cannot eat an animal, so Allah is the Master, Owner, Lord and so if we eat Pork than all things we eat will be of forced as it won't be through permission of Allah just like even if you don't have a right to something you steal it.

And if and where Allah stops you from something and you stop than the other eatables become halaal (allowed) aswell because they are under permission.


So the Main question is that whether Creator (Allah) has the right or not ? So if we accept that He is the Creator and the Owner that if He says don't eat this than what is the right of us to question HIM that prove us that why we should not eat this ?


This One Prohibition has taught Us a golden principle that whatever we do we do it with Allah's permission and where there is no permission we should stop there.


When you tell people all this than you will know that mostly this question is asked as a result of Atheism. Because in Atheism there is no Concept of God, no concept of Belief. They think that we do not eat it because of suspicion and if we are not taught scientifically that why we shouldn't stop eating it we won't stop.


While we Muslims have a totally different Point of View of stopping here there is no debate of Science.

Even if Today I am able to tell something Scientifically than why for 1500 years Muslims stopped themselves from eating Pork ? So whether Science is in favour or against it is good for debate but A Muslim will stop himself from doing this because of Allah's order.

Most importantly this prohibition is also for those who are consuming Pork. One more counter question one should ask is that in this Islam came at Number 3. First Judaism prohibited it and Prophet Jesus AS did not declare it Halal. Show Us where He AS declared it Halal ? So first you tell that why in Judaism it was prohibited ? Prove it with wisdom than we will see whether there is a logic or not.

We the Muslims stop ourselves because God told us to do so, So if you want to stop from eating that first tell Us the Philosophy of Judaism and tell that with Jesus AS not permitting it why you declared a prohibited thing as allowed ? What was the Authority with You ?

Thank you [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]. I learned a new word today "Najass". You answerd question 3 of mine PERFECTLY.

I wanted to know whether in the scriptures it was just "Don't eat pork . Period" or was any explanation given at that time.

I don't agree with the views on Homo-sexuality though, which is a good topic for another lengthy discussion on another thread.


Nope. All the prophets were Muslims in a way and the religions that they preached were all fundamentally Islam. Though the final and most comprehensive version of Islam was preached by prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is why Muslims have to believe in all the prophets and all the scriptures besides the Quran as well. However we do not believe in the current versions of those religions because we believe they have been altered from their original form. For example we believe that Jesus was just like any other prophet of Allah however Christians started believing he was the son of God. We believe that the original version of the bible did not teach that. The Quran however is the exact same as it was during the time of the prophet Muhammad pbuh. Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) had the idea to compile the Quran into one book however each word and the order of the Surahs etc remained the same and is still the same to this day and will remain the same till the day of judgement.


Hindus have a similar school of thought as well. We see our numerous gods as manifestations of the same supreme power. So our religion doesn't reject any of the other faiths and their gods.

Technically , a hindu who believes in Ganpathi being Shiva's son HAS to accept Jesus being son of god. It's just their independent interpretation of a common message.

There is a line spoken by God Vishnu in a mythical story where he says to a believer that : "You saw me in this form because this is what YOU BELIEVED I would look like ! ".

I think that beautifully sums up what different interpretations of "the true message" means.
 
I'm sorry, I don't agree with that for a few reasons. You can have a consensus of opinion among the likes of Zakir Naik and other "Ulema" on "Peace" TV but I wouldn't believe it. It's just the simple fact that I don't consider these people to be saints and decide the future of the Muslim Umma or what the Muslim Umma should or should not do.

Consensus should be of whole ummah (like all scholars together). Not a meager percentage of scholars (whether you consider them scholars or not is secondary). But Consensus/ijmaa is only when whole of Ummah is involved. Whether it's possible in current era is anyone's guess. But we did have consensus in earlier times. Many of Ijmaa are mentioned in al-Ijma' of ibn Mundhir
 
Consensus should be of whole ummah (like all scholars together). Not a meager percentage of scholars (whether you consider them scholars or not is secondary). But Consensus/ijmaa is only when whole of Ummah is involved. Whether it's possible in current era is anyone's guess. But we did have consensus in earlier times. Many of Ijmaa are mentioned in al-Ijma' of ibn Mundhir

Exactly what I'm trying to say. There's so many sects, divisions and types of Muslims, it's impossible to have all Muslims on one page and therefore, the stronger party would be the majority (Sunnis) and that would create and even stronger sectarian divide among Muslims. Which is why I think consensus of opinion is outdated because everyone looks for material benefits in this day and age and nobody is going to put the benefits of the entire Ummah before their own particular sect, whatever it be, Sunni, Shia, Ahmedi, Barelvi..
 
Exactly what I'm trying to say. There's so many sects, divisions and types of Muslims, it's impossible to have all Muslims on one page and therefore, the stronger party would be the majority (Sunnis) and that would create and even stronger sectarian divide among Muslims. Which is why I think consensus of opinion is outdated because everyone looks for material benefits in this day and age and nobody is going to put the benefits of the entire Ummah before their own particular sect, whatever it be, Sunni, Shia, Ahmedi, Barelvi..

I agree in current era it's next to impossible to have a consensus on any new issue that may come up. But Consensus is authority in Islamic Jurisprudence and one can't say that he doesn't agree with consensus (conditions apply)
 
Do you eat pork? And what's your view on this?

I don't, and I have made my views clear already. I don't eat it simply because I am not allowed to, and I am not bothered because not eating pork is not affecting my life in any way. However, I don't use logic and science to justify why it is bad for consumption. Religion can never beat logic and science, and that is why it is called 'faith'.

If it is your faith that a pink elephant comes to your room every night, you don't have to justify and prove it to anyone. You believe what you believe.
 
No I am serious. My views are based on research I have done. Not getting what you mean from "or other Muslims" on wards.

Alright, I shall rephrase. If people are acquiring certain traits from pigs because of eating pork, then the same should be true for people (including Muslims) who eat chicken, fish, mutton and beef. I wonder what traits we have acquired from all these animals.
 
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