Negative attitude with the bat deserves negative team results

[Amjid Javed]

Have to say that pakistan attitude and mindset with the bat in this series for 90% of time has been pretty pathetic to say the least. In the 1st inns of both tests our openers have come out and player positively to start with, they come the following day the mindset to then come out has been a negative one and cheap wickets are lost. Apart from Sohail and Sarfaraz have any of our batsmen looked to keep busy at the crease? Rotate the strike?

Occupying the crease and not scoring is not helping the team at all, its allowed SL bowlers to settle into bowling rhythm and its always a matter of time before a batsmen will get a ball with his name on it. Whats the point batting for an hour scoring 10 runs and then throwing wicket away when the team score doesn't advance and team remains in trouble. Win or lose this match but pakistans attitude and mindset needs to improve with the bat, no one is asking to go out and be reckless and try and hammer the ball to boundary all the time but at at least show some intent to score runs!

 

[Plumb]

this has been the case for a very long time. We have been winning matches with the bowlers help for a long time. But since few years the strike rate have fallen to such a pathetic lows that its embarrassing.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Its no coincidence that the two times we have chased down big totals v SL we have been positive with the bat and show intent to try and score runs and go after the total. current method of blocking and hoping for odd bad ball to score off is pathetic and indeed has been the norm method for team for to long now!

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

These two have shown quite clearly how batting with a positive mindset can make such a big difference.

 

[Markhor]

The top order were appalling - were they playing for a draw ?

 

[Mamoon]

No wonder this thread is a desert. Where are the folks who told us that it is not possible to bat at a good strike rate in the UAE, and batting at a strike rate of 30-40 is the right way to go about it?

I hope Big Mac is feeling okay right now. He must be livid with Shafiq for scoring 80+ at a strike rate of 60.

 

[ManFan]

No wonder this thread is a desert. Where are the folks who told us that it is not possible to bat at a good strike rate in the UAE, and batting at a strike rate of 30-40 is the right way to go about it?

I hope Big Mac is feeling okay right now. He must be livid with Shafiq for scoring 80+ at a strike rate of 60.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] How do you rate Osman Salahuddin? Shaheen Shah Afridi? Also, I know this is not the thread to discuss this but I had an opportunity to attend a Ghamidi Q and A session at the university I go to last week. I know you are a fan of Ghamidi.

 

[Noman]

These two have shown quite clearly how batting with a positive mindset can make such a big difference.

The mindset is right. We need This kind of mindset in future. But actually the Ball good really soft after 40 overs This Pick Ball is quite like the White ball and gets very soft quickly but with no reverse swing. Interesting time tomorrow. But I feel the new Pick Ball is very good and Pakistan Will struggle tomorrow.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] How do you rate Osman Salahuddin? Shaheen Shah Afridi? Also, I know this is not the thread to discuss this but I had an opportunity to attend a Ghamidi Q and A session at the university I go to last week. I know you are a fan of Ghamidi.

Salahuddin is a season F/C player but from what I've seen, he is from the same school of tuk tuk. I don't think he is going to add much to this lineup in terms of style of play, but he should replace Babar for now. I haven't watched much of Shaheen Shah Afridi except for the one clip, but he has made a great start to his F/C career and considering the state of our pacers at the moment, it won't be a bad idea to fast-track him and see what he is made of.

Good to hear, Ghamidi is a great man. I have learned a lot from him and I hope to meet him one day.

 

[ManFan]

Salahuddin is a season F/C player but from what I've seen, he is from the same school of tuk tuk. I don't think he is going to add much to this lineup in terms of style of play, but he should replace Babar for now. I haven't watched much of Shaheen Shah Afridi except for the one clip, but he has made a great start to his F/C career and considering the state of our pacers at the moment, it won't be a bad idea to fast-track him and see what he is made of.

Good to hear, Ghamidi is a great man. I have learned a lot from him and I hope to meet him one day.

Salahuddin has the right intent to succeed in Asian conditions and Shaheen is a must for the UAE tests at the very least.

 

[Mamoon]

Salahuddin has the right intent to succeed in Asian conditions and Shaheen is a must for the UAE tests at the very least.

Salahuddin will score runs, but I doubt if he will at a good strike rate.

 

[Savak]

Pakistani Domestic Wickets, Pakistani players playing for their spots and averages and Misbah ul Haq's legacy are too blame. Younis Khan would actually bat at a decent strike rate, once he got his eye in, he would murder the spinners and in that respect his absence is being felt big time

 

[htariq25]

It's babar that is the most frustrating because if he just bats with a positive attitude he will score runs. He has potential as he has shown in odis but he just hasn't understood how to bat in tests yet. He either throws away his wicket or blocks till he gets one that he edges straight to slip. He should do what he does in odis by getting singles and he will be successful.

 

[Hasan123]

Shan Masood innings was a disgrace today and put more pressure on us. Test cricket isn't about blocking every ball. It's about seeing off the difficult periods then looking to score when the opportunity arises. Azhars blocking didn't help as well. He isn't a number 3 imo. I would prefer him opening and seeing of the new ball.

 

[Sherlock]

Masood/Babar/Azhar and Aslam were all horrible today.

I don't know what Babar is thinking [if he is, at all]. You know if he plays his natural game he'll get the runs, yet he fails time-after-time doing the same thing he did the previous innings.

Masood is a disgrace to opening batsman everywhere. The man is totally inept at opening up his shoulders and be aggressive at any stage.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

The mindset is right. We need This kind of mindset in future. But actually the Ball good really soft after 40 overs This Pick Ball is quite like the White ball and gets very soft quickly but with no reverse swing. Interesting time tomorrow. But I feel the new Pick Ball is very good and Pakistan Will struggle tomorrow.

Yes you may have a point. The earlier batsmen did struggle when the ball was new. It is will interesting to see how the two cope with the new ball.

 

[Big Mac]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

No wonder this thread is a desert. Where are the folks who told us that it is not possible to bat at a good strike rate in the UAE, and batting at a strike rate of 30-40 is the right way to go about it?

I hope Big Mac is feeling okay right now. He must be livid with Shafiq for scoring 80+ at a strike rate of 60.

You write epic dissertations on why drawing a test series in England is a poor result because Stuart Broad's auntie's cousin said her neighbour stubbed a toe on the coffee table which meant he was too stressed to bowl at 100%. Let's not forget about the position of the moon in its orbit meant the ball didn't move as much because of the subtle change in the gravitational pull.

But one middle order partnership and it proves the UAE pitches are perfect for batting at a run a ball and the last seven years have been a complete lie.

ODIs Since 2010

In the UAE: 350+ scores in 2.53% of innings

In every other test playing nation (Pakistan included): 350+ scores in 3.68% of innings

T20s since 2010

UAE: 200+ scores in 2.15% of innings

In the 10 Test playing nations: 200+ scores in 4.23% of innings

Tell me again how the UAE pitches are conducive to scoring quickly and how Azhar Ali's test average of 55 as an opener is hurting the team?

Don't you get tired of constantly embarrassing yourself?

 

[Hamza_]

[MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] This ratio is low because Pakistan in generally plays slow

Team by Team first-second innings comparison in UAE will be interesting.

 

[Big Mac]

Pakistani Domestic Wickets, Pakistani players playing for their spots and averages and Misbah ul Haq's legacy are too blame. Younis Khan would actually bat at a decent strike rate, once he got his eye in, he would murder the spinners and in that respect his absence is being felt big time

Apart from your usual nonsense about blaming Misbah for everything, you were on the verge of making an astute observation.

Pakistani first class cricket is terrible for producing stroke players because the wickets and the ball make the gentlest of trundlers into demon bowlers as long as they can put the ball in the right spot repeatedly. So you end up with top order batsmen who are either focussed primarily on survival or guys who swing the bat blindly and hope to connect with a few before they get an unplayable delivery.

Look at the Asif thread, everyone is getting excited over his figures but glossing over the fact that 24 wickets fell in one day. You can't expect to produce batsmen in a system like that and sending younger guys like Babar Azam back to FC cricket to find form will just destroy them.

It's why we end up selecting older batsmen as well, they are the ones who have somehow managed to persevere and work out a way to thrive in those conditions and it might explain why they generally seem to have odd looking techniques as well. e.g. Misbah, Fawad.

 

[Big Mac]

[MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] This ratio is low because Pakistan in generally plays slow

Team by Team first-second innings comparison in UAE will be interesting.

Batting first in ODIs since 2010:

UAE: 350+ scored 2.56% of the time (twice in 78 innings)

10 test playing nations: 350+ scored 6.49% of the time (52 in 801 innings)

Batting first in T20s since 2010:

UAE: 200+ in 4.3% of innings (4 out of 93. Two of those games were between associate nations and one was Afg v Zim)

10 Test Nations: 200+ in 5.36% of innings (19 out of 354)

And looking at those numbers I've realised I must have messed up somewhere with the first lot of ODI figures I did in the earlier post Ssssh, don't tell anyone

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Apart from your usual nonsense about blaming Misbah for everything, you were on the verge of making an astute observation.

Pakistani first class cricket is terrible for producing stroke players because the wickets and the ball make the gentlest of trundlers into demon bowlers as long as they can put the ball in the right spot repeatedly. So you end up with top order batsmen who are either focussed primarily on survival or guys who swing the bat blindly and hope to connect with a few before they get an unplayable delivery.

Look at the Asif thread, everyone is getting excited over his figures but glossing over the fact that 24 wickets fell in one day. You can't expect to produce batsmen in a system like that and sending younger guys like Babar Azam back to FC cricket to find form will just destroy them.

It's why we end up selecting older batsmen as well, they are the ones who have somehow managed to persevere and work out a way to thrive in those conditions and it might explain why they generally seem to have odd looking techniques as well. e.g. Misbah, Fawad.

Not sure if this is entirely true as players like Kamran Akmal score prolifically on the domestic circuit only to fail repeatedly at the international level.

Many batsmen have averages over 50 at the end of the season so I am not sure if bowlers have such a big advantage on the domestic pitches.

And having to bat on such difficult pitches should only make them better prepared for the international circuit not the other way around.

 

[Abdullah719]

Not sure if this is entirely true as players like Kamran Akmal score prolifically on the domestic circuit only to fail repeatedly at the international level.

Many batsmen have averages over 50 at the end of the season so I am not sure if bowlers have such a big advantage on the domestic pitches.

And having to bat on such difficult pitches should only make them better prepared for the international circuit not the other way around.

When they're not going to be making big runs on a regular basis then they won't know the art of playing long innings.

Look at India, they have nobodies making triple tons in domestic cricket while bowlers are becoming better with the art of reverse-swing such as Yadav etc. because they have to find ways to pick up wickets.

There should be some variety in the wickets at the domestic level at least. Currently that's not available.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

You write epic dissertations on why drawing a test series in England is a poor result because Stuart Broad's auntie's cousin said her neighbour stubbed a toe on the coffee table which meant he was too stressed to bowl at 100%. Let's not forget about the position of the moon in its orbit meant the ball didn't move as much because of the subtle change in the gravitational pull.

But one middle order partnership and it proves the UAE pitches are perfect for batting at a run a ball and the last seven years have been a complete lie.

ODIs Since 2010

In the UAE: 350+ scores in 2.53% of innings

In every other test playing nation (Pakistan included): 350+ scores in 3.68% of innings

T20s since 2010

UAE: 200+ scores in 2.15% of innings

In the 10 Test playing nations: 200+ scores in 4.23% of innings

Tell me again how the UAE pitches are conducive to scoring quickly and how Azhar Ali's test average of 55 as an opener is hurting the team?

Don't you get tired of constantly embarrassing yourself?

The scores in Limited Overs in the UAE have generally been low in the last 7 years because till 2015 Pakistan had services of two chuckers who were very economical, which is why we managed to restrict teams to below par totals.

However, our batting was terrible so we also scored well below par, which is why we have a negative W/L ratio in Limited Overs in the UAE with all teams not named Sri Lanka winning the series.

However, every now and then, we have had 300+ scores in the UAE as well and if I recall correctly, England scored 350 when Buttler scored a 50 ball ton. The moral of the story is that the matches in the UAE have generally been low scoring because of our economical bowling and poor batting, which you obviously cannot see because of your blind infatuation with Misbah which is as embarrassing as some of the blind hate that is directed at him.

Azhar can average 155 as an opener for all I care, but his runs are proving to be as useful in Tests as Misbah's average of 50+ (from 2010 onwards) was in ODIs. Both halted the innings time and time again because their respective strike rates were too low for their runs to shape the course of the game. Obviously, the failures of the other batsman was a bigger issue. That is why singling out Azhar is wrong, just like singling out Misbah was wrong as well.

However, does that mean they are beyond criticism? No.

You can engage in ad hominem and bring out your stupid gifs but I am happy to walk that road. Two can play this game.

 

[Savak]

Apart from your usual nonsense about blaming Misbah for everything, you were on the verge of making an astute observation.

Pakistani first class cricket is terrible for producing stroke players because the wickets and the ball make the gentlest of trundlers into demon bowlers as long as they can put the ball in the right spot repeatedly. So you end up with top order batsmen who are either focussed primarily on survival or guys who swing the bat blindly and hope to connect with a few before they get an unplayable delivery.

Look at the Asif thread, everyone is getting excited over his figures but glossing over the fact that 24 wickets fell in one day. You can't expect to produce batsmen in a system like that and sending younger guys like Babar Azam back to FC cricket to find form will just destroy them.

It's why we end up selecting older batsmen as well, they are the ones who have somehow managed to persevere and work out a way to thrive in those conditions and it might explain why they generally seem to have odd looking techniques as well. e.g. Misbah, Fawad.

I am correctly holding Misbah responsible for the defeatist, mohali type batting culture in the team, it was blasphamous in his reign to have Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood, Sharjeel Khan, Fakhre Zaman type players in the test team. The fact we have such a one dimensional batting line up is his legacy.

 

[Big Mac]

Not sure if this is entirely true as players like Kamran Akmal score prolifically on the domestic circuit only to fail repeatedly at the international level.

Many batsmen have averages over 50 at the end of the season so I am not sure if bowlers have such a big advantage on the domestic pitches.

And having to bat on such difficult pitches should only make them better prepared for the international circuit not the other way around.

I'd have to go through an entire season, scorecard by scorecard to tell you whether certain grounds are flat roads perfect for scoring or whether those batsmen are filling their boots against a couple of weak teams to boost their stats.

And while it seems as though batting in these conditions should make it easier to bat at test level the fact of the matter is that learning how to defend against trundlers doesn't necessarily help when you end up facing bowlers who are much better and faster than what you face at domestic level. It also means that some batsmen may have developed a mindset of survival first, run scoring second, and it's not easy to turn that around when you get called up to test cricket. How can players learn to make hundreds and double hundreds when teams struggle to score 300 runs in total? Finally, any flaws in your game get identified quickly and passed around the international circuit in an instant. How many Pakistani first class teams have full time staff dedicated to watching video for scouting and analysis purposes? How many first class games have footage captured from every conceivable angle in high definition and slow-motion?

How can you expect the system to create test-class players when teams are so far behind when it comes to professionalism? When you have different numbers of teams from season to season? Any players that come through are in spite of the system, not because of it.

 

[Savak]

Pakistani domestic wickets which are extremely slow, under prepared, seaming with grass, devoid of any real pace and carry where the ball does not come on to the bat at all is to blame primarily as well. Batsmen lack the confidence to do well in these conditions, they are mostly fighting for survival and the one ball they put away, the outfield is so slow that it doesn't cross the fence so absolutely no reward for the batsmen.

 

[Savak]

I'd have to go through an entire season, scorecard by scorecard to tell you whether certain grounds are flat roads perfect for scoring or whether those batsmen are filling their boots against a couple of weak teams to boost their stats.

And while it seems as though batting in these conditions should make it easier to bat at test level the fact of the matter is that learning how to defend against trundlers doesn't necessarily help when you end up facing bowlers who are much better and faster than what you face at domestic level. It also means that some batsmen may have developed a mindset of survival first, run scoring second, and it's not easy to turn that around when you get called up to test cricket. How can players learn to make hundreds and double hundreds when teams struggle to score 300 runs in total? Finally, any flaws in your game get identified quickly and passed around the international circuit in an instant. How many Pakistani first class teams have full time staff dedicated to watching video for scouting and analysis purposes? How many first class games have footage captured from every conceivable angle in high definition and slow-motion?

How can you expect the system to create test-class players when teams are so far behind when it comes to professionalism? When you have different numbers of teams from season to season? Any players that come through are in spite of the system, not because of it.

What you are describing is the end effect and consequence of the lack of international cricket in Pakistan for the last decade. The PCB hasn't been able to make the big injections in domestic cricket in terms of finances, quality domestic coaches, quality groundsmen, umpires and pitches.

Hopefully a few more seasons of PSL, the PSL Franchises taking over domestic teams, international cricket returning to Pakistan will arrest the slide.

 

[Big Mac]

I am correctly holding Misbah responsible for the defeatist, mohali type batting culture in the team, it was blasphamous in his reign to have Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood, Sharjeel Khan, Fakhre Zaman type players in the test team. The fact we have such a one dimensional batting line up is his legacy.

Wait, you're moaning that we didn't build the team around a massively unprofessional drama queen whose excuse for being unfit is "water makes me fat", "the next Inzi" who scored two fifties in his last 19 ODI innings and a guy who was banned for five years for fixing?

Amazing

What you are describing is the end effect and consequence of the lack of international cricket in Pakistan for the last decade. The PCB hasn't been able to make the big injections in domestic cricket in terms of finances, quality domestic coaches, quality groundsmen, umpires and pitches.

Hopefully a few more seasons of PSL, the PSL Franchises taking over domestic teams, international cricket returning to Pakistan will arrest the slide.

That makes a huge assumption that PSL teams will want to sink their money into first class games that attract no fans, get no TV ratings, and will provide no return on their investment. There's no reason for them to do any of that.

The Pakistani first-class system was ridiculous even before the attack on the Sri Lankan team bus so I'm not sure how much blame we can put on the lack of international games in Pakistan.

 

[Syed1]

Must be hard pill for Chisti Mujahids of PP to swallow... they would have us believe that Misbah-esque or Azhar-esque strike rate is the only way to bat in UAE. Unfortunately these oldies don't realize this is not the 1970s.

 

[Big Mac]

Must be hard pill for Chisti Mujahids of PP to swallow... they would have us believe that Misbah-esque or Azhar-esque strike rate is the only way to bat in UAE. Unfortunately these oldies don't realize this is not the 1970s.

This is the slowest Pakistan have batted in a test series in the UAE in five years.

I have been well and truly blown away by the aggression of the Pakistani batting.

Egg all over my face.

Eating humble pie by the bucket load.

How embarrassing.

Syed has well and truly owned me here.

Don't think I'll ever live this down.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139288]Abdul[/MENTION]

 

[Syed1]

This is the slowest Pakistan have batted in a test series in the UAE in five years.

I have been well and truly blown away by the aggression of the Pakistani batting.

Egg all over my face.

Eating humble pie by the bucket load.

How embarrassing.

Syed has well and truly owned me here.

Don't think I'll ever live this down.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139288]Abdul[/MENTION]

It was slow because Misbah's mini-me was batting at 30 SR...

 

[Savak]

Wait, you're moaning that we didn't build the team around a massively unprofessional drama queen whose excuse for being unfit is "water makes me fat", "the next Inzi" who scored two fifties in his last 19 ODI innings and a guy who was banned for five years for fixing?

Amazing

I am talking about type of batsmen i.e. aggressive. Misbah filled the team with boring grafters who could not change gears according to the team's requirements.

That makes a huge assumption that PSL teams will want to sink their money into first class games that attract no fans, get no TV ratings, and will provide no return on their investment. There's no reason for them to do any of that.

The Pakistani first-class system was ridiculous even before the attack on the Sri Lankan team bus so I'm not sure how much blame we can put on the lack of international games in Pakistan.[/QUOTE]

The PSL Franchises are already spending so much money on tournaments, talent hunts, sending teams and players to foreign tours, promotion, marketing, getting celebrities involved in the Franchises, hiring the best possible coaches, mentors for the players. Najam Sethi has explained many times that it is his vision that these Franchise owners in due course will agree to buy a domestic region and treat it as their baby, its not something that is entirely impossible, it all depends on the PCB PSLizing our domestic cricket.

Just because the first class system in Pakistan has always been riddiculous does not mean it has to remain that way, in the past we got away with it because Imran Khan gave Pakistan quite a few legends on a platter and our talent pool in the 80's and 90's was big. Unfortunately the talent stocks have dried up and the situation in the country, the economic environment, inflation is now vastly different compared to the 50's to the early 90's where the departments were providing financial security to the players in the form of permanent jobs, sponsorships, support for life, unfortunately that is no longer the case, some departments have abolished their sports teams, while the remaining departments only hire players on seasonal contracts and at lower pays, in the absecence of financial security at lower levels, pursuing a cricket career and struggling early on in such a corrupt, low paying, non rewarding system is just no longer economically feasible for youngsters anymore who have other options now to make more money like opening a mechanic store, being a taxi, riksha driver, operating a general store e.t.c.

Just through the PSL and the involvement of big money from Franchises look at the amount of players coming out in these talent camps who are being expected to serve Pakistan Cricket in the upcoming future

India is reaping massive rewards from spending so much money in their grass roots, domestic cricket

 

[Big Mac]

It was slow because Misbah's mini-me was batting at 30 SR...

and yet we scored faster than this almost every series when we had both Misbah AND his Mini-Me doing tuk tuk for five days...

You didn't think this through did you?

 

[Savak]

Wait, you're moaning that we didn't build the team around a massively unprofessional drama queen whose excuse for being unfit is "water makes me fat", "the next Inzi" who scored two fifties in his last 19 ODI innings and a guy who was banned for five years for fixing?

Amazing

I am talking about type of batsmen i.e. aggressive. Misbah filled the team with boring grafters who could not change gears according to the team's requirements.

That makes a huge assumption that PSL teams will want to sink their money into first class games that attract no fans, get no TV ratings, and will provide no return on their investment. There's no reason for them to do any of that.

The Pakistani first-class system was ridiculous even before the attack on the Sri Lankan team bus so I'm not sure how much blame we can put on the lack of international games in Pakistan.

The PSL Franchises are already spending so much money on tournaments, talent hunts, sending teams and players to foreign tours, promotion, marketing, getting celebrities involved in the Franchises, hiring the best possible coaches, mentors for the players. Najam Sethi has explained many times that it is his vision that these Franchise owners in due course will agree to buy a domestic region and treat it as their baby, its not something that is entirely impossible, it all depends on the PCB PSLizing our domestic cricket.

Just because the first class system in Pakistan has always been riddiculous does not mean it has to remain that way, in the past we got away with it because Imran Khan gave Pakistan quite a few legends on a platter and our talent pool in the 80's and 90's was big. Unfortunately the talent stocks have dried up and the situation in the country, the economic environment, inflation is now vastly different compared to the 50's to the early 90's where the departments were providing financial security to the players in the form of permanent jobs, sponsorships, support for life, unfortunately that is no longer the case, some departments have abolished their sports teams, while the remaining departments only hire players on seasonal contracts and at lower pays, in the absecence of financial security at lower levels, pursuing a cricket career and struggling early on in such a corrupt, low paying, non rewarding system is just no longer economically feasible for youngsters anymore who have other options now to make more money like opening a mechanic store, being a taxi, riksha driver, operating a general store e.t.c.

Just through the PSL and the involvement of big money from Franchises look at the amount of players coming out in these talent camps who are being expected to serve Pakistan Cricket in the upcoming future

India is reaping massive rewards from spending so much money in their grass roots, domestic cricket

 

[Big Mac]

I am talking about type of batsmen i.e. aggressive. Misbah filled the team with boring grafters who could not change gears according to the team's requirements.




The PSL Franchises are already spending so much money on tournaments, talent hunts, sending teams and players to foreign tours, promotion, marketing, getting celebrities involved in the Franchises, hiring the best possible coaches, mentors for the players. Najam Sethi has explained many times that it is his vision that these Franchise owners in due course will agree to buy a domestic region and treat it as their baby, its not something that is entirely impossible, it all depends on the PCB PSLizing our domestic cricket.

Just because the first class system in Pakistan has always been riddiculous does not mean it has to remain that way, in the past we got away with it because Imran Khan gave Pakistan quite a few legends on a platter and our talent pool in the 80's and 90's was big. Unfortunately the talent stocks have dried up and the situation in the country, the economic environment, inflation is now vastly different compared to the 50's to the early 90's where the departments were providing financial security to the players in the form of permanent jobs, sponsorships, support for life, unfortunately that is no longer the case, some departments have abolished their sports teams, while the remaining departments only hire players on seasonal contracts and at lower pays, in the absecence of financial security at lower levels, pursuing a cricket career and struggling early on in such a corrupt, low paying, non rewarding system is just no longer economically feasible for youngsters anymore who have other options now to make more money like opening a mechanic store, being a taxi, riksha driver, operating a general store e.t.c.

Just through the PSL and the involvement of big money from Franchises look at the amount of players coming out in these talent camps who are being expected to serve Pakistan Cricket in the upcoming future

India is reaping massive rewards from spending so much money in their grass roots, domestic cricket

The PSL owners are spending that money because they expect to get even more back via increased interest in the PSL. First class cricket will never come close to generating that kind of money so there is no reason for team owners to create and manage first class teams, no matter what Najam Sethi dreams about.

 

[Savak]

The PSL owners are spending that money because they expect to get even more back via increased interest in the PSL. First class cricket will never come close to generating that kind of money so there is no reason for team owners to create and manage first class teams, no matter what Najam Sethi dreams about.

People had the same fears about the PSL and how it was going to be another version of the Domestic T-20 cup. Never say never. There is always a way to turn an unprofitable product into a profitable one

 

[Big Mac]

People had the same fears about the PSL and how it was going to be another version of the Domestic T-20 cup. Never say never. There is always a way to turn an unprofitable product into a profitable one

The only way to make it profitable is TV deals.

TV deals won't come unless sponsors are willing to spend big money on TV advertising spots.

They won't spend money on TV ads unless they are sure that TV ratings will be high.

So basically it comes down to this one question.

Will Pakistani first class games attract as many TV viewers as the PSL?


If the answer is no, and we all know that it is, then it isn't worth spending all that extra money to set up TV cameras around Pakistani ground, pay a TV production company and get commentators, pay for all the transport and logistical costs of playing four day games all around Pakistan etc.

It's a pipe dream. I'd be happy if we managed to get good quality pitches and use balls that are better than those we use in division five of English club cricket. That alone will make a massive difference.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So we have Azhar batting in negative mode during these two tests when teams on top.

You have Babar on a go slow as soon as hes reaching a milestone

You have a captain who is reactive instead of proactive! because hes clearly no faith in his side!

 

[Boi]

Bro chill out there’s still 2 days left in the game.

 

[IMMY69]

So we have Azhar batting in negative mode during these two tests when teams on top.

You have Babar on a go slow as soon as hes reaching a milestone

You have a captain who is reactive instead of proactive! because hes clearly no faith in his side!

and then we have posters like yourself...

 

[Amjid Javed]

and then we have posters like yourself...

So Azhars inns in 1st inns 1st test and here was a master stroke was it?

 

[Stewie]

Nobexcuse for continuing this innings... you have twenty overs left... aussies are tired.. put them in.. if you cant defend 500 plus, you dont deserve to win.. what are you hoping to accomplish at this stage by batting at 1-2 / over.

This is weak!

 

[Amjid Javed]

Nobexcuse for continuing this innings... you have twenty overs left... aussies are tired.. put them in.. if you cant defend 500 plus, you dont deserve to win.. what are you hoping to accomplish at this stage by batting at 1-2 / over.

This is weak!

Add to that Khwaja cant opening inns either and its perfect time to declare, try and win game as quickly as possible.

Dont get what blocking till close of plays going to achieve.

 

[Stewie]

Put them in while they retired for 15-16 overs and make some inroads.. captain courageous wants a century it seems..

 

[Amjid Javed]

We will win this test, but already drew 1st one because of snail like batting in 1st inns of the 1st test.

 

[Stewie]

Its not about winning or losing here since a win is almost a certainty
. its more about the way you want to play cricket for your country and stamp our authority as a fearless and confident team lead by a fearless and selfless captain.. we should not be caught up in chasing personal landmarks or give the impression of being timid and confused when we are in such a strong position.. its as if you dont trust your bowlers who have won you matches or have performed better than your batting in this series.. they should have declared with a lead of 450 and try to win this game within 4 days..

 

[Markhor]

Same old story.

To bat 110 overs and only score 250 is a disgrace. We should be close to parity with Australia's 1st inns by this stage not 120+ behind.

Pakistan have had zero intent to win this Test series as evidenced by not just the batting tempo but the pitches prepared and on-field tactics. You prepare to avoid defeat then you should expect defeat.

This series has shades of the 2000 home series vs England.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

It feels like it is more of a skill issue with some of these Pakistani batters. They just get stuck.
Playing in your home conditions you should be more comfortable and rotate strike better.

 

[Rana]

Pakistans top 3 is wrong.

They have three accumulators right at the top who are happy to go at 1.5 runs per over until the 20th over of the innings.

 

[Markhor]

Pakistans top 3 is wrong.

They have three accumulators right at the top who are happy to go at 1.5 runs per over until the 20th over of the innings.

I mentioned in the match thread you cannot have two grinders in Azhar and Imam in the top 3. You can have one max but otherwise you just cannot seize the initiative. However Babar also slowed right down as well.

These guys were droning on about aggressive fearless cricket and they produce this dross.

 

[Fahdi]

Same old story.

To bat 110 overs and only score 250 is a disgrace. We should be close to parity with Australia's 1st inns by this stage not 120+ behind.

Pakistan have had zero intent to win this Test series as evidenced by not just the batting tempo but the pitches prepared and on-field tactics. You prepare to avoid defeat then you should expect defeat.

This series has shades of the 2000 home series vs England.

Be prepared to be countered with stimulating intellectual arguments like:

- "Stick to T20 cricket!"
- "Yes let's get Umar Akmal back, then you'll be happy with 25(30) scores"
- "Why are we criticizing the guys that actually scored runs!"

 

[Amjid Javed]

Same old story.

To bat 110 overs and only score 250 is a disgrace. We should be close to parity with Australia's 1st inns by this stage not 120+ behind.

Pakistan have had zero intent to win this Test series as evidenced by not just the batting tempo but the pitches prepared and on-field tactics. You prepare to avoid defeat then you should expect defeat.

This series has shades of the 2000 home series vs England.

100% spot on this is like early 2000 loss to england, we played poor spinners back then, rubbish captain and a negative batting line up. same thing again here. To only get 250 after over 100 overs + is pathetic.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Imam is not a international cricket product. Now please don't say he scored 2 hundreds in first test. That was a road not a cricket pitch.

 

[Buffet]

Be prepared to be countered with stimulating intellectual arguments like:

- "Stick to T20 cricket!"
- "Yes let's get Umar Akmal back, then you'll be happy with 25(30) scores"
- "Why are we criticizing the guys that actually scored runs!"

People making such argument don't understand test cricket. Test cricket is not just about producing dead pitches and batting time to avoid losing. That's very poor cricket.

You do play slow and bat time in test cricket, but you do also play at a normal rate to not score 170 runs in an entire day. Sometimes you also play fast to put pressure. Test cricket is all about giving yourself chance to pick up 20 wickets and changing strategy based on the situation. If all you do is to bat time no matter the match situation then it's just a horrible way to play cricket.

Aus batting has been extremely comfortable in the entire series. I would have liked to see turning tracks to test Aus batting.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I dont get what the batting plan was here in lahore, we should have been aiming to score at a decent rate to get level with Aussies to make it a one inns shoot out. instead we just blocked and gave the inns and a lead away. That comes from pathetic slow batting. it not only kills one batsmen inns but effects person at other end as well. gutless and negative cricket.

 

[MRSN]

This current team has a lot of players that are stats hungry i.e they take milestones very seriously rather than playing for the team and playing with a positive mindset.

Azhar is a prime example. The guy plays 250 balls for his 80 odd runs and then gets out playing an aerial shot when new ball is due on a pitch that is deteriorating.

The mindset is to block block block until you really get bored. It's not about blocking good deliveries and taking on bad balls. These players even tuk tuk against bad ones as well.

If you keep playing such a defensive cricket ultimately it will take only one good ball to take you out.

Apart from Baber Azam everyone played with a negative mindset. The less said about our tail the better. I don't think Pakistan is capable of beating top teams because of their lack of skills and negative mentality.

 

[MRSN]

Also the way Pakistan played in this whole series really killed my interest in test cricket. I was really hoping Pakistan cricket will improve its mindset post Misbah but watching these players in this series I think it will take a lot of time to get out of that medieval mindset. Not gonna waste my time watching this bore tuk tuk.

 

[PakPremi]

I mentioned in the match thread you cannot have two grinders in Azhar and Imam in the top 3. You can have one max but otherwise you just cannot seize the initiative. However Babar also slowed right down as well.

These guys were droning on about aggressive fearless cricket and they produce this dross.

Babar slowed down as ball started to reverse a lot leading to regular fall of wickets. Best batting conditions were when Australia batted and when Pak top 3 batted. Pakistan should havebatted at better rate at that stage to put a dent into Aussies total. Leaving out Faheem for Hasan Ali was also bad move, batting weakened further and bowlingwise Faheem was better too considering Hasan Ali current form.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Played too slow, shouldve had atleast 350 plus by now if we cant bat at 3rpo we are never gonna win anything.

 

[Xoib]

They should have known pitch will will get tougher to bat and with long tail a collapse is around the corner partnership between Abdullah and Azhar should have have been quicker anyways we deserve to lose this series based on the brand of cricket we have played .

 

[Fahdi]

People making such argument don't understand test cricket. Test cricket is not just about producing dead pitches and batting time to avoid losing. That's very poor cricket.

You do play slow and bat time in test cricket, but you do also play at a normal rate to not score 170 runs in an entire day. Sometimes you also play fast to put pressure. Test cricket is all about giving yourself chance to pick up 20 wickets and changing strategy based on the situation. If all you do is to bat time no matter the match situation then it's just a horrible way to play cricket.

Aus batting has been extremely comfortable in the entire series. I would have liked to see turning tracks to test Aus batting.

Yup, it's about winning the game and that requires changing your approach depending upon the current and future situation. You need to know your targets and anticipate the situation of the coming days. Pakistan just kept batting as they had no matter if it was the new ball or the old ball and didn't matter how set the batsmen were.

This sort of approach only wins games when you significantly better than the opposition because you can just do as you wish and be confident that you'll end up on top. This is why it worked in the UAE because Pakistan, with the services of Misbah, Younis and company along with the bowling of Yasir/Ajmal, was a much better team in those conditions. When that gap wasn't as big we struggled and that's reflected in our records against Sri Lanka who managed to draw and then beat us when Misbah and Younis retired. NZ also gave us plenty of trouble beating us after Mis-You and even with them they nearly won a series.

We don't quite understand how to press home the advantage when the opposition doesn't get rolled over and puts up and actual fight.

 

[TheSultan]

This blockathon thinking is getting tired now. Please do something different. Azhar will never change his approach so punish him and drop him. I am so sick of the sight of him blocking, scratching around, looking darpok.

Nasser Hussain described Pakistan very well a few years ago. “They are sticking around but not going anywhere”.

That’s all they do

 

[hitthestump]

I mentioned in the match thread you cannot have two grinders in Azhar and Imam in the top 3. You can have one max but otherwise you just cannot seize the initiative. However Babar also slowed right down as well.

These guys were droning on about aggressive fearless cricket and they produce this dross.

Pakistan have not had an aggressive batsman in their top 6 for a very long time, yet Misbah was able to consistently produce results. Tuk Tuk was an incredible strategy under his wing. I don't think this is where the problem lies.