New domestic format suggestion

[Attiq_Lone]

A good domestic structure is the base for building a successful international team. A good domestic structure, must have equality and competitiveness.

Fed up of the usual talks on how bad our Pakistan's domestic system is, as a die hard cricket and Pakistan team fan, I tried to think about a structure that would have the qualities mentioned above.

My first aim was to think about a structure that would have a limited number of teams (to increase competitiveness), so i thought 8 to 10 Teams would be perfect. But how to choose the teams? In this case I relied on statistics, and worked out the percentage of the population in each province (Punjab, Sindh, KP and Balochistan)

The percentages are the following:
-Punjab 53.46%
-Sindh 23.27%
-KPK 17.27%
-Balochistan 6%

So from the percentages above I calculated the number of teams from each province in an 8 teams tournament, and it resulted in: 4 teams from Punjab, 2 from sindh and 1 each from KPK and Balochistan.

Now the next step was, how will they qualify? The idea was, why not having provincial tournaments in each province? where all the teams or all the major teams present in the province would face each other, and the top teams (4 for punjab, 2 for sindh etc), would qualify for the major national tournament (e.g. QeA Trophy)

This will increase competitiveness and there will be equal representation of cities, regardless their name. I am not in favour of departments but in favour of regional cricket. Regional boards must be strengthened.

I am new on this forum, and in my free time I just keep thinking about improvements in Pakistan team, domestic structure and anything related to cricket, it is kind of a hobby. So I wanted your opinion on this format, there can be even better ideas or more improvements. My conclusion would be that the current Pakistan's domestic structure seems very complicated, things would run easier if they make it a bit simple

 

[MenInG]

A good domestic structure is the base for building a successful international team. A good domestic structure, must have equality and competitiveness.

Fed up of the usual talks on how bad our Pakistan's domestic system is, as a die hard cricket and Pakistan team fan, I tried to think about a structure that would have the qualities mentioned above.

My first aim was to think about a structure that would have a limited number of teams (to increase competitiveness), so i thought 8 to 10 Teams would be perfect. But how to choose the teams? In this case I relied on statistics, and worked out the percentage of the population in each province (Punjab, Sindh, KP and Balochistan)

The percentages are the following:
-Punjab 53.46%
-Sindh 23.27%
-KPK 17.27%
-Balochistan 6%

So from the percentages above I calculated the number of teams from each province in an 8 teams tournament, and it resulted in: 4 teams from Punjab, 2 from sindh and 1 each from KPK and Balochistan.

Now the next step was, how will they qualify? The idea was, why not having provincial tournaments in each province? where all the teams or all the major teams present in the province would face each other, and the top teams (4 for punjab, 2 for sindh etc), would qualify for the major national tournament (e.g. QeA Trophy)

This will increase competitiveness and there will be equal representation of cities, regardless their name. I am not in favour of departments but in favour of regional cricket. Regional boards must be strengthened.

I am new on this forum, and in my free time I just keep thinking about improvements in Pakistan team, domestic structure and anything related to cricket, it is kind of a hobby. So I wanted your opinion on this format, there can be even better ideas or more improvements. My conclusion would be that the current Pakistan's domestic structure seems very complicated, things would run easier if they make it a bit simple

Welcome to PP and thanks for posting this.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

thanks, so what do You think about it any other suggestions, agree or disagree etc

 

[mak36]

Disagree with your implementation.

The current system is 'rigged' in favour of one or two regions, and this simply continues that.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

What ?? From what I know, BLCH is the biggest province and you say it makes up only 6% of Pakistan population??

What's there then?? Just barren lands?

 

[MenInG]

What ?? From what I know, BLCH is the biggest province and you say it makes up only 6% of Pakistan population??

What's there then?? Just barren lands?

population wise.

 

[Syed1]

Might as well have all 8 teams from Punjab

 

[Markhor]

I agree with the OP's suggestion of having a regional based competition involving 8-10 teams.

There are too many mismatches in the QEA Trophy where average players can pad their stats against weak teams and make a case for national selection only to be exposed when they make the step up to international cricket. Khurram Manzoor, Shan Masood, Iftikhar Ahmed, the list goes on. Domestic cricket is meant to be a finishing school

The regional setup must be empowered with departments sponsoring the associations. It's true the departments were once a vital source of income for Pakistani cricketers but now in the age of PSL and global T20 (and even T10) tournaments - there are other means to make a living.

It's not just the domestic system that needs reforming, but the way talent is found. For many years Pakistan have sourced talent from informal networks, recommendations from well connected ex-players and talent hunts - priding itself on tales of kids being plucked from the street and becoming superstars. However as the world professionalises this is unsustainable. Do the world's best football clubs run on this model ? No, they have well resourced academies where kids are properly coached by qualified pros from a young age. No amount of Pepsi Talent Hunts can substitute for a lack of a properly functioning, meritocratic junior and domestic setup.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I have a better suggestion.
1) Make School Cricket a real thing.
2) Make sure that those schools are affiliated with local clubs.
3) Make sure that all the local clubs are associated with City Cricket Associations.
4) Make sure that there is a provincial body that will provide platform for the City based associations to compete with each other.
5) Make sure that the PCB provide platform to the provincial bodies to compete with each other.
6) Digitalise the local cricket and make the record public.
And
7) Bring in the sponsors to sponsor that digitalised public record (content).
It is easier to manipulate 5 or 6 zones into voting for you but it’s hard to do so with 100-150 clubs. Those clubs are also answerable to the schools that they represent. In addition to the schools being affiliated to local clubs it should also be their job to scout talent in their area because not every kid enjoy the luxury of school. The government should incentivise the schools by giving them tax reductions in their bills. It should be the responsibility of the provincial bodies to provide coaches to the clubs and it should be clubs’ responsibility to provide coaches to the schools. It should be the responsibility of the schools and colleges to make sure that the planned tournaments and scouting activities are done and recorded timely. Creating such a system will make cricket accessible to everyone growing up. Similarly, those who are talented enough should go on and represent the senior teams of their clubs, cities and provinces in a transparent pathway.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Disagree with your implementation.

The current system is 'rigged' in favour of one or two regions, and this simply continues that.

You can't really rig in favour of few regions when each of the province is having their own tournament where the best performing teams would go ahead.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

What ?? From what I know, BLCH is the biggest province and you say it makes up only 6% of Pakistan population??

What's there then?? Just barren lands?

Population wise Balochistan is the smallest province of Pakistan, land wise it is the biggest

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Might as well have all 8 teams from Punjab

You will obviously have more teams from populated areas. Punjab simply is the biggest province by population and You can't ignore that fact

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I agree with the OP's suggestion of having a regional based competition involving 8-10 teams.

There are too many mismatches in the QEA Trophy where average players can pad their stats against weak teams and make a case for national selection only to be exposed when they make the step up to international cricket. Khurram Manzoor, Shan Masood, Iftikhar Ahmed, the list goes on. Domestic cricket is meant to be a finishing school

The regional setup must be empowered with departments sponsoring the associations. It's true the departments were once a vital source of income for Pakistani cricketers but now in the age of PSL and global T20 (and even T10) tournaments - there are other means to make a living.

It's not just the domestic system that needs reforming, but the way talent is found. For many years Pakistan have sourced talent from informal networks, recommendations from well connected ex-players and talent hunts - priding itself on tales of kids being plucked from the street and becoming superstars. However as the world professionalises this is unsustainable. Do the world's best football clubs run on this model ? No, they have well resourced academies where kids are properly coached by qualified pros from a young age. No amount of Pepsi Talent Hunts can substitute for a lack of a properly functioning, meritocratic junior and domestic setup.

that's something constructive. Yes I completely agree on the fact that we cannot run on pepsi taent hunts or the franchise level talent hunt, that talent comes and keeps playing t20 cricket only. By empowering regions you can reach to far more talented people, like they do in football (e.g. the cantera in spain etc).

Another factor is also how you treat your players. Our board is the 4th richest board in international cricket, and we pay our international players (monthly salary) less than Irish players. You can't really groom your players in this way.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I have a better suggestion.
1) Make School Cricket a real thing.
2) Make sure that those schools are affiliated with local clubs.
3) Make sure that all the local clubs are associated with City Cricket Associations.
4) Make sure that there is a provincial body that will provide platform for the City based associations to compete with each other.
5) Make sure that the PCB provide platform to the provincial bodies to compete with each other.
6) Digitalise the local cricket and make the record public.
And
7) Bring in the sponsors to sponsor that digitalised public record (content).
It is easier to manipulate 5 or 6 zones into voting for you but it’s hard to do so with 100-150 clubs. Those clubs are also answerable to the schools that they represent. In addition to the schools being affiliated to local clubs it should also be their job to scout talent in their area because not every kid enjoy the luxury of school. The government should incentivise the schools by giving them tax reductions in their bills. It should be the responsibility of the provincial bodies to provide coaches to the clubs and it should be clubs’ responsibility to provide coaches to the schools. It should be the responsibility of the schools and colleges to make sure that the planned tournaments and scouting activities are done and recorded timely. Creating such a system will make cricket accessible to everyone growing up. Similarly, those who are talented enough should go on and represent the senior teams of their clubs, cities and provinces in a transparent pathway.

Agree with the school level cricket, but why not empowering the regions? give more power to the regions, A teams B teams Junior teams with a proper development program, these regions would be responsible for the talent hunt program rather than school.

Additonally, coming back to your main point, Instead of the PCB providing facilities to the board the regional boards could do that. It would be very hard for the PCB to monitor so many schools, giving this duty to each region which would be reporting to the province which then reports to the board would make things easier. What do you think?

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Gathering all the information from this thread, I have something to add:

School Level tournaments monitored by the regions. Players get selected into the region through regional talent hunt programs. Provincial tournaments monitored by a provincial board, where the top teams qualify for QeA trophy as I mentioned before. But in addition to that, keep the pentangular cup, with one change keep the 4 provinces and exclude the federal team (I never understood the need of a federal team).

So a 4 teams national list A tournament, where Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and KPK face each other for 3-6 matches each and the top 2 teams play the final. The players will be selected by the provincial selectors on the performance in the provincial tournament.

In the presence of the PSL there is no need for a national T20, it is just a waste of money.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Is Ehsan Mani going to make to do anything? Very quiet.

 

[hussain.r97]

What ?? From what I know, BLCH is the biggest province and you say it makes up only 6% of Pakistan population??

What's there then?? Just barren lands?

Balochistan is the biggest province, but the climate there is very unforgiving. Very dry, mountainous, and barren, hence, only about 12-13 million people live there.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Agree with the school level cricket, but why not empowering the regions? give more power to the regions, A teams B teams Junior teams with a proper development program, these regions would be responsible for the talent hunt program rather than school.

Additonally, coming back to your main point, Instead of the PCB providing facilities to the board the regional boards could do that. It would be very hard for the PCB to monitor so many schools, giving this duty to each region which would be reporting to the province which then reports to the board would make things easier. What do you think?

Oh you got me wrong. Putting the clubs under the region is empowering. As I said, regions can have their A teams, B teams and under 19 teams, And monitoring them should be the role of provincial bodies. PCB’s role should be about monitoring provincial bodies. Provincial body’s role should be about monitoring regions and regions role should be about monitoring clubs and the clubs’ role should be about monitoring schools. That makes every authority answerable to someone. Plus, regions can do their talent hunt by monitoring club cricket and pick the brightest talent available in the clubs. Clubs can have their talent hunt by monitoring the brightest talent from the schools and schools can hunt talent hunt by recruiting the best talent available in their area into their teams.
The idea is to reduce the burden of every organisation while making more responsible for working in their own domain.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Agree with the school level cricket, but why not empowering the regions? give more power to the regions, A teams B teams Junior teams with a proper development program, these regions would be responsible for the talent hunt program rather than school.

Additonally, coming back to your main point, Instead of the PCB providing facilities to the board the regional boards could do that. It would be very hard for the PCB to monitor so many schools, giving this duty to each region which would be reporting to the province which then reports to the board would make things easier. What do you think?

And the reason why putting 150 clubs under the regions is empowering them is because it makes it less susceptible to corruption. Right now KCCA has around 7-8 zones. These zones demand their players to get selected in exchange for their votes. So the KCCA is arm twisted into selecting players from every zone. By getting rid of zones, you’ll have 100-150 top clubs as stake holders in the region who would know that only 16 players can get selected in a regional side. So for them, producing the best talent will be the motivational factor rather than selling their votes to the highest bidder. And that’s what empowering the regions should look like. Besides, the regions can make good money by televising inter-club tournaments. That can also empower them.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Oh you got me wrong. Putting the clubs under the region is empowering. As I said, regions can have their A teams, B teams and under 19 teams, And monitoring them should be the role of provincial bodies. PCB’s role should be about monitoring provincial bodies. Provincial body’s role should be about monitoring regions and regions role should be about monitoring clubs and the clubs’ role should be about monitoring schools. That makes every authority answerable to someone. Plus, regions can do their talent hunt by monitoring club cricket and pick the brightest talent available in the clubs. Clubs can have their talent hunt by monitoring the brightest talent from the schools and schools can hunt talent hunt by recruiting the best talent available in their area into their teams.
The idea is to reduce the burden of every organisation while making more responsible for working in their own domain.

it makes sense now yeah

 

[Attiq_Lone]

And the reason why putting 150 clubs under the regions is empowering them is because it makes it less susceptible to corruption. Right now KCCA has around 7-8 zones. These zones demand their players to get selected in exchange for their votes. So the KCCA is arm twisted into selecting players from every zone. By getting rid of zones, you’ll have 100-150 top clubs as stake holders in the region who would know that only 16 players can get selected in a regional side. So for them, producing the best talent will be the motivational factor rather than selling their votes to the highest bidder. And that’s what empowering the regions should look like. Besides, the regions can make good money by televising inter-club tournaments. That can also empower them.

Karachi Club Lahore Club, all these clubs are full of corruption they need a complete change too. Agree with you. India televises every domestic game, so does England, Australia or Sourh Africa. We have one problem, we have a sports channel that is run by nauman niaz only and The quality of broadcast is pathetic (especially for domestic cricket)

 

[hadi123]

Some really good posts in this thread. Especially the OP, a debutant. Welcome to PP!

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Karachi Club Lahore Club, all these clubs are full of corruption they need a complete change too. Agree with you. India televises every domestic game, so does England, Australia or Sourh Africa. We have one problem, we have a sports channel that is run by nauman niaz only �� and The quality of broadcast is pathetic (especially for domestic cricket)

We have another sports channel as well which promotes one franchise all year without fail. I’m sure they would love to cover someone else as well. I’d go sick if i was covering one joke of team all year.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Karachi Club Lahore Club, all these clubs are full of corruption they need a complete change too. Agree with you. India televises every domestic game, so does England, Australia or Sourh Africa. We have one problem, we have a sports channel that is run by nauman niaz only �� and The quality of broadcast is pathetic (especially for domestic cricket)

That’s why I said that a club is answerable to both schools and the region. If a club does something corrupt, the schools can take their joint complain to the region. The region can then hold the clubs accountable. If regions neglect those complains, the schools can take the matters to the provincial bodies. They should just all be one e-mail away to register the complains.

 

[Shafi]

Is Ehsan Mani going to make to do anything? Very quiet.

I am thinking the same!!!
May be he will deliver speech every year.

 

[Syed1]

You will obviously have more teams from populated areas. Punjab simply is the biggest province by population and You can't ignore that fact

That's stupid logic. So you are telling me a very talented kid in DG Khan has less chance of making it to the national side than an ok talented kid from Lahore just because of where he was born?


That is the exact opposite of what your domestic system should seek to achieve. In a competent system any player from any part of Pakistan should have equal opportunity to come to the forefront.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

That's stupid logic. So you are telling me a very talented kid in DG Khan has less chance of making it to the national side than an ok talented kid from Lahore just because of where he was born?


That is the exact opposite of what your domestic system should seek to achieve. In a competent system any player from any part of Pakistan should have equal opportunity to come to the forefront.

No. It means that a talented kid from Dg Khan right now has a less chance of making it into the system than a less talented kid from Hyderabad or Larkana. Think of it. If Punjab gets one team with around 55-56% of the total population of Pakistan and every other province gets one team with significantly lower population then it will be hard for a highly talented kid in DG Khan to make into the Punjab side than it is for a player with lower skill level in Sindh. That’s the real problem that he is worried about.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

We have another sports channel as well which promotes one franchise all year without fail. I’m sure they would love to cover someone else as well. I’d go sick if i was covering one joke of team all year.

Geo Super is so biased man...they are more interested in broadcasting APL and IPL rather than bidding for Pakistan’s domestic

 

[Attiq_Lone]

That’s why I said that a club is answerable to both schools and the region. If a club does something corrupt, the schools can take their joint complain to the region. The region can then hold the clubs accountable. If regions neglect those complains, the schools can take the matters to the provincial bodies. They should just all be one e-mail away to register the complains.

Completely agree

 

[Attiq_Lone]

No. It means that a talented kid from Dg Khan right now has a less chance of making it into the system than a less talented kid from Hyderabad or Larkana. Think of it. If Punjab gets one team with around 55-56% of the total population of Pakistan and every other province gets one team with significantly lower population then it will be hard for a highly talented kid in DG Khan to make into the Punjab side than it is for a player with lower skill level in Sindh. That’s the real problem that he is worried about.

On point

 

[Attiq_Lone]

That's stupid logic. So you are telling me a very talented kid in DG Khan has less chance of making it to the national side than an ok talented kid from Lahore just because of where he was born?


That is the exact opposite of what your domestic system should seek to achieve. In a competent system any player from any part of Pakistan should have equal opportunity to come to the forefront.

I am absolutely not saying that. let’s say i have 4 different containers, containing different number of balls, let’s say one container has 8 balls, another one has 6 balls, and the last two have respectively 4 and 2 balls.

Now from each container I need to make packs of 2 balls. The first container will have 4 packs, the second will have 3 packs the third one and the last one will have 2 and 1 respectively.

Make your system efficient, that talented kid from DG will have more chances to play for the national team rather than a less talented kid from Lahore.

Now Imagine You have just 1 team from the province that has the 53% of the total population of Pakistan, in this case won’t we be missing many other talented players?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Geo Super is so biased man...they are more interested in broadcasting APL and IPL rather than bidding for Pakistan’s domestic

That’s probably because of PTV’s monopoly on the rights bidding. PTV is run by the state so at any given day they are likely to outbid Geo Super because of the amount of resources they have at their disposal. Geo Super doesn’t face the same challenge when it comes to foreign leagues because PTV has other priorities and to be honest it would be counterproductive and counterintuitive for a state run channel to promote foreign leagues.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

That’s probably because of PTV’s monopoly on the rights bidding. PTV is run by the state so at any given day they are likely to outbid Geo Super because of the amount of resources they have at their disposal. Geo Super doesn’t face the same challenge when it comes to foreign leagues because PTV has other priorities and to be honest it would be counterproductive and counterintuitive for a state run channel to promote foreign leagues.

I would expect more from them now that they are independent from the state. We are still watching sports like in the early 2000s, the world has HD, ultra HD, 4K channels, we are still there watching sports in a lower quality than SD.

The amount of money they have, it is not spent the way it should be. The coverage, the commentary and the analysis of the domestic tournaments is pathetic, nobody would watch it in this way.

There was the launch of PTV sports 2, I dont know where is that channel now?

Let’s not talk about pitches in our domestic, it makes it boring. Few years back we Had roads, which increased the amount of slow left armers, but the batsmen produced had their easy runs to get selected in the team. Now we have green tops, which would surely shatter the confidence of the batsman. There is no pitch which would offer a balanced contest between bat and ball. These factors makes it a boring game to watch for a viewer as well

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I would expect more from them now that they are independent from the state. We are still watching sports like in the early 2000s, the world has HD, ultra HD, 4K channels, we are still there watching sports in a lower quality than SD.

The amount of money they have, it is not spent the way it should be. The coverage, the commentary and the analysis of the domestic tournaments is pathetic, nobody would watch it in this way.

There was the launch of PTV sports 2, I dont know where is that channel now?

Let’s not talk about pitches in our domestic, it makes it boring. Few years back we Had roads, which increased the amount of slow left armers, but the batsmen produced had their easy runs to get selected in the team. Now we have green tops, which would surely shatter the confidence of the batsman. There is no pitch which would offer a balanced contest between bat and ball. These factors makes it a boring game to watch for a viewer as well

All these problems are genuine and they will be solved in time. At least I hope so.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

All these problems are genuine and they will be solved in time. At least I hope so.

I hope they do something about it, we have the worst system

 

[MMHS]

I think, it's (Punjab quota) is an unique problem in cricket world. No other Test playing nation is so much dominated by one province (SRL & BD has most players coming from Colombo & Dhaka, but it's not like separate Province) - BUT, in any measures, Punjab will & should get about 50% of teams/regions ..... it's more or less in every aspect; even National assembly has more than 50% seats from Punjab - simply because that state is 60%+ of PAK.

One thing for sure, the structure has to be a pyramid, where top tier is sum of whole country - no 2nd thought about it and that structure must be decentralized from Lahore based office (Ideally PCB HQ shouldn't be at Lahore at all).

May be, two way to fix this issue is instead of province based demarcation, PCB should do it City based. Long back I did some home work on this and few facts might have changed now; but that time I think, there were 96 cricket zones (bottom segment) - which is a nice number. Take 10 major Cities as base & attach 9-10 of these 96 zones to form 10 Regions. I think, I ranked top 10 - Karachi, Lahore, Faisalabad, R'Pindi, Islamabad, Multan, S'kot, Pesawar, Hydarabad & Queta. Ideally, it should be 8, but not sure which 2 should be taken off - may be Inslamabad & R'Pini; Multan & Hyderabad merges to make it 8. This takes out regional bias. These 8 Zones must have independent cricket administration like mini 8 PCBs - PCB should act like a federal Govt. and look after the national interest only.

2nd problem is more tricky. For decades, 2 cities have enjoyed a monopoly of cricket facilities, therefore talent pool in PAK is not equally distributed. No cut can ensure that top 100 players are covered, which is the first target of any nation wide system. If it's made on Provincial quota, then lots of better cricketers from Punjab & Sindh will miss out; and if it remains same like now - PAK cricket won't expand much into a population base of 23 crore.

This was a similar small problem in AUS (majority players coming from NSW), and BIG problem in BD (where 90% players used to come from 2 Cities). We solved that with a process that's actually used in AUS as well - we have 8 Zones now, and regardless of birth place, top 100 (?) players are given a sort of Central contract for FC level (not much money involved yet), with a home zone assigned (could be based on birth or domicile). Every year, before the start of domestic season, teams selects their centrally contracted 15-16 FC players (from that list of ~100) - those players who can't make it for their Regional team, will receive an NOC and they are free to join any other 7 teams for full season. This actually allows that more or less top 100 players are ensured domestic cricket at highest level & they compete against each others.

This is something they use in AUS as well, for which Gilchrist & Border ended for Western Australia & Queensland, instead of NSW. In BD context, few years back, 18-19 years old Liton was 2nd WK of Rangpur (Dhiman 1st WK), and instead of sitting out, he decided to join Sylhet where he played every game as WK-batsman for 2 seasons & returned to his home team as a better player. If everyone is available, Khulna's bowling attack will be Mash, Rubel, Mustafiz, Miraz, Shakib & A Razzak - A Razzak moved out to join Barisal. This actually has made all 8 teams quite close in terms of strength and I believe in last 10-12 years, we have 6 different National Champions.

PAK for a country of 23 crore people, there are too many players to accommodate only in 8 teats, therefore there must be a 2nd tier (may not be FC status), to accommodate next 500 players. BUT, there shouldn't be any overlap - now PAK national players are playing at every level, which doesn't help much in terms of development or space of new players - this MUST be stopped. Top 125-130 players ONLY play in that 8 team frame - that's 14 FC games & 14 List A game. T20 should be a separate formula, which I think is well managed between PSL & National T20 league (should be 16 teams in 2 divisions) .

This is just about the formation of team, which I think isn't the biggest challenge - Regional, City Based, Corporate ... doesn't matter as long as top 100 players are evenly distributed & made to play each others. Biggest challenge is to establish FC cricket as the main event in domestics - otherwise I don't think PSL based PAK would ever reach in top half of cricket elites, apart from some sporadic success. 8 teams, 14 home & away games each for at least 380 overs/game, and FC season spread between SEP to May (so that players get a full cycle of season from wet winter to dry summer), is absolutely bare minimum. Rest, these school cricket, club cricket, academy and other fancy staffs are ornaments - good to have, but won't help more than 20% unless, top 100 players are made to play against each others for 14 proper, hard fought FC games on good, firm & diversified wickets. Cricket by nature is a slow learning game & a self learning game as well - without proper FC cricket, no one can master it. If PCB tries it through PSL - AFG's will be PAK's emotional rival more than IND and IND-PAK Series will end like SAF-ZIM regional contest.

 

[davethebrave]

I think, it's (Punjab quota) is an unique problem in cricket world. No other Test playing nation is so much dominated by one province (SRL & BD has most players coming from Colombo & Dhaka, but it's not like separate Province) - BUT, in any measures, Punjab will & should get about 50% of teams/regions ..... it's more or less in every aspect; even National assembly has more than 50% seats from Punjab - simply because that state is 60%+ of PAK.

One thing for sure, the structure has to be a pyramid, where top tier is sum of whole country - no 2nd thought about it and that structure must be decentralized from Lahore based office (Ideally PCB HQ shouldn't be at Lahore at all).

May be, two way to fix this issue is instead of province based demarcation, PCB should do it City based. Long back I did some home work on this and few facts might have changed now; but that time I think, there were 96 cricket zones (bottom segment) - which is a nice number. Take 10 major Cities as base & attach 9-10 of these 96 zones to form 10 Regions. I think, I ranked top 10 - Karachi, Lahore, Faisalabad, R'Pindi, Islamabad, Multan, S'kot, Pesawar, Hydarabad & Queta. Ideally, it should be 8, but not sure which 2 should be taken off - may be Inslamabad & R'Pini; Multan & Hyderabad merges to make it 8. This takes out regional bias. These 8 Zones must have independent cricket administration like mini 8 PCBs - PCB should act like a federal Govt. and look after the national interest only.

2nd problem is more tricky. For decades, 2 cities have enjoyed a monopoly of cricket facilities, therefore talent pool in PAK is not equally distributed. No cut can ensure that top 100 players are covered, which is the first target of any nation wide system. If it's made on Provincial quota, then lots of better cricketers from Punjab & Sindh will miss out; and if it remains same like now - PAK cricket won't expand much into a population base of 23 crore.

This was a similar small problem in AUS (majority players coming from NSW), and BIG problem in BD (where 90% players used to come from 2 Cities). We solved that with a process that's actually used in AUS as well - we have 8 Zones now, and regardless of birth place, top 100 (?) players are given a sort of Central contract for FC level (not much money involved yet), with a home zone assigned (could be based on birth or domicile). Every year, before the start of domestic season, teams selects their centrally contracted 15-16 FC players (from that list of ~100) - those players who can't make it for their Regional team, will receive an NOC and they are free to join any other 7 teams for full season. This actually allows that more or less top 100 players are ensured domestic cricket at highest level & they compete against each others.

This is something they use in AUS as well, for which Gilchrist & Border ended for Western Australia & Queensland, instead of NSW. In BD context, few years back, 18-19 years old Liton was 2nd WK of Rangpur (Dhiman 1st WK), and instead of sitting out, he decided to join Sylhet where he played every game as WK-batsman for 2 seasons & returned to his home team as a better player. If everyone is available, Khulna's bowling attack will be Mash, Rubel, Mustafiz, Miraz, Shakib & A Razzak - A Razzak moved out to join Barisal. This actually has made all 8 teams quite close in terms of strength and I believe in last 10-12 years, we have 6 different National Champions.

PAK for a country of 23 crore people, there are too many players to accommodate only in 8 teats, therefore there must be a 2nd tier (may not be FC status), to accommodate next 500 players. BUT, there shouldn't be any overlap - now PAK national players are playing at every level, which doesn't help much in terms of development or space of new players - this MUST be stopped. Top 125-130 players ONLY play in that 8 team frame - that's 14 FC games & 14 List A game. T20 should be a separate formula, which I think is well managed between PSL & National T20 league (should be 16 teams in 2 divisions) .

This is just about the formation of team, which I think isn't the biggest challenge - Regional, City Based, Corporate ... doesn't matter as long as top 100 players are evenly distributed & made to play each others. Biggest challenge is to establish FC cricket as the main event in domestics - otherwise I don't think PSL based PAK would ever reach in top half of cricket elites, apart from some sporadic success. 8 teams, 14 home & away games each for at least 380 overs/game, and FC season spread between SEP to May (so that players get a full cycle of season from wet winter to dry summer), is absolutely bare minimum. Rest, these school cricket, club cricket, academy and other fancy staffs are ornaments - good to have, but won't help more than 20% unless, top 100 players are made to play against each others for 14 proper, hard fought FC games on good, firm & diversified wickets. Cricket by nature is a slow learning game & a self learning game as well - without proper FC cricket, no one can master it. If PCB tries it through PSL - AFG's will be PAK's emotional rival more than IND and IND-PAK Series will end like SAF-ZIM regional contest.

No need to change anything on the domestic front, all that will result is an even bigger mess, this thread and it's development is evidence of that. Take the best from the U-19s and get them involved in the national set-up asap. You've had 15 years since Woolmer's laptop arrived and have failed to produce anything of substance in that time. If you believe that the predicament will change with a few domestic coaches who have spent 15 years sellotaped to a laptop and destroyed any last vestiges of natural ability then you are kidding yourselves. Domestic cricketers play domestic cricket for one reason, they're not good enough when they're young to play at the international level. Focusing your efforts on the least productive part of the system isn't going to get you very far. I suspect the only reason why there's an obsession with the domestic structure relates to an apparent need to copy what Western nations do, it has clearly achieved nothing nor has the obsession with fitness. That which works for others may not work for you and it's debatable whether it works for others too. There was a time when the Pakistani cricketing fraternity had the courage to do things their own way and with far better results.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Disagree with your implementation.

The current system is 'rigged' in favour of one or two regions, and this simply continues that.

I think using the population ratio to find how many teams should play is pretty good. The provinces with higher population will have more talented players than those with lower population (only because they have a lower population). Therefore, more teams from a populous province will allow for ample opportunities to the higher number of talented players in that province. While 1 team from less populous provinces will be enough to allow the talented players in that province with opportunities.

It may not be implementable in our actual domestic system, but the idea is decent.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

No need to change anything on the domestic front, all that will result is an even bigger mess, this thread and it's development is evidence of that. Take the best from the U-19s and get them involved in the national set-up asap. You've had 15 years since Woolmer's laptop arrived and have failed to produce anything of substance in that time. If you believe that the predicament will change with a few domestic coaches who have spent 15 years sellotaped to a laptop and destroyed any last vestiges of natural ability then you are kidding yourselves. Domestic cricketers play domestic cricket for one reason, they're not good enough when they're young to play at the international level. Focusing your efforts on the least productive part of the system isn't going to get you very far. I suspect the only reason why there's an obsession with the domestic structure relates to an apparent need to copy what Western nations do, it has clearly achieved nothing nor has the obsession with fitness. That which works for others may not work for you and it's debatable whether it works for others too. There was a time when the Pakistani cricketing fraternity had the courage to do things their own way and with far better results.

How can we ensure that only the best players get to U19 level then? Especially because some might not make it to U19 due to being introduced too late (which in the case of U19 cricket is 20 years of age or over). The PCB only needs to put in 2-3 years worth of effort because they only need to sort out the FC structure and to some extent the List A structure. The T20 structure is fine. I remember a while back Karachi used to have the KCCA (Karachi City Cricket Association), no idea if its still active or what its purpose is. But, if a similar body is made for each city and province, which can manage club and school teams in its districts (each city should have 7-8 districts max), then our FC cricket structure can really have a step-ladder/pyramid system where a player who performs well starts out at a club, moves onto playing for his district, then for his region in a 2nd grade FC tournament and then in FC cricket.

We can't solely rely on the U19 level to be the only supply of talent for the national team. Even of we do, a lot of players will be lost because realistically, one can only play international U19 for 2 or 3 years MAX, therefore, if you aren't a member of the national team say because the national team already has a wicketkeeper or openersor fast bowlers or whatever, then you can't play for the U19 team (due to age restrictions) and will be lost in the domestic circuit.

 

[MMHS]

No need to change anything on the domestic front, all that will result is an even bigger mess, this thread and it's development is evidence of that. Take the best from the U-19s and get them involved in the national set-up asap. You've had 15 years since Woolmer's laptop arrived and have failed to produce anything of substance in that time. If you believe that the predicament will change with a few domestic coaches who have spent 15 years sellotaped to a laptop and destroyed any last vestiges of natural ability then you are kidding yourselves. Domestic cricketers play domestic cricket for one reason, they're not good enough when they're young to play at the international level. Focusing your efforts on the least productive part of the system isn't going to get you very far. I suspect the only reason why there's an obsession with the domestic structure relates to an apparent need to copy what Western nations do, it has clearly achieved nothing nor has the obsession with fitness. That which works for others may not work for you and it's debatable whether it works for others too. There was a time when the Pakistani cricketing fraternity had the courage to do things their own way and with far better results.

More than natural talent, I tend to believe that PAK's cricket glory was almost entirely dependent on external resources - more preciously English County & British Indian FC system. If we search through history, the glory of PAK cricket can be clubbed in 2 periods - first in 1950s, when PAK had the best record for a new entrant, then between mid 1970s to mid 2000s. And the darkest period is 1960s & last 10-12 years (despite winning CT).

1950s had a team with senior players groomed in excellent British Indian FC system, where domestic teams like Punjab, Sindh & Muslims developed first generation of PAK players - AH Kardar, Wazir, Saeed, Khan Md. Fazal, ... by 1960s, everyone apart from Hanif retired and PAK eventually did manage to lose a home series to NZ in 1969 - it was PAK's fortune that, since 1961 war, IND-PAK cricket was closed for 17 years, otherwise in 1960s, despite IND being one of the weakest cricket team that time, IND-PAK head to head would have been very similar to what is in 2010s - I understand it sounds bitter, but harsh truth is always bitter.

In between, in late 1960s & early 1970s, for a great fortune for the nation, PAK toured ENG and 4-5 players got County contracts from their 1967 & 1971 tour performance - Mazid, Asif, Sarfraz, Intekhab, Mushtaq & probably Asif Masood; which lead to the path for several getting a chance to develop their game at early stage of career - Imran, Zaheer, Javed, Wasim Raza, WW, Aquib, Malik ... and many more in Minor Counties, Leagues cricket around Lancashire, Birmingham, London. You should recall that for their "natural talent", PAK picked Mazid & Asif as medium pace "all-rounder" and played them at 8-9, while Javed went to 1975 WC as legspin all-rounder, batting at 7; Glamargoan, Kent & Sussex made them the batsmen they ended like ... while Imran has written enough on this, regarding his own development as a cricketer - I tend to take his words a bit more seriously than some wannabe rebellion.

I understand that "U19" concept of your, which sounds sweet - I myself has written several epics on why "bring them raw & green" from a different perspective, but hardy explains the constant decline of PCT the way you are explaining. The mistake you are making is drawing conclusion from the outcome, rather than looking at the root cause of the event. And, the grudge against Woolmer is complete outburst of frustration - upset people always look for scapegoats. For the first time in their career, MoYo, YK & Inzi got the chance to work with a pro coach for long term and their stats between 2004 to 2007 should suggest that Woolmer was more than a bit of Lap Top coaching.

Just to burst the bubble of "best from U19", I give 12-13 specific names outside the lap top era - Salim Elahi, Md. Zahid, Md. Wasim, Ali Naqvi, Shahid Nazir, Taufique Umar, Imran Nazir, Md. Sami, Faisal Iqbal, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Nasir Jamshed, Hammad Azam & Sami Aslam. These players were picked almost from U19 level, and each one started career with a bang or at least didn't disappoint at start - within 1-2 years, each of them were found out at International level, faded away in short time thereafter. I have seen each of them at their debut few games, and end few games as well - can you suggest why Md. Sami didn't finish with 450 Test wickets or Salim Elahi with 25 ODI hundreds or Hammad not playing for 10-12 years or Fazle Akbar had only 2-3 Tests in career or Zahid retired at 23-24? Obviously, obsession with fitness has a dark past associated with it.

My whole focus was on FC cricket, which you think is least productive part, therefore we are definitely not on same platform. Don't think there is anything here to copy from west - IND doing the same thing for a century now, BD is trying to implement almost cut copy from AUS & it's producing - first batsmen & only few years time, bowlers will also come. It must be quite a discomfort for few of you not to be able to taunt Indians any more for their "phast" bowling in last few years - just wait for a decade, you'll be able to add one more name in that "no taunt" list. Adequately, you'll be put into place for arrogance without substance - rest of the world is no't sitting idle to entertain your ego.

In fact, "copying West", has achieved nothing because there was never any attempt to copy - I can safely say, take out those 35 years of County polished PAK cricket era, SRL has easily achieved much more than PAK with completely domestic products - Arjuna, De Silva, Murali, Sanath, Sanga, Mahela, Dilshan, Angelo, Vaas, Tilakratne, Kalu, Malinga - never played in County before turning close to 30, when they were polished International cricketers; which can't be said for most of PAK greats - therefore I do believe that the need wasn't apparent only. For a reality check - in a very specialized skill of the game, Prassanna Jaya & Mushfiqur Rahim are better WKs than anyone PAK has produced in last 20 years and they are complete domestic products - that should ring a sound bell somewhere.

PAK cricketing fraternity had nothing to boast for their courage - PAK's cricket has started a nose dive from late 1990s, when Players Union forced ECB to restrict on hiring foreign players. As I wrote in other thread - make a 20 men PAK all-time squad for combined 3 formats, only 2 will be debuting in last 20 years .... and those 2 were also fortunate to be polished during that Lap Top era. Take look

Mazid, Hanif, Saeed
Inzi, Javed, Zaheer, MoYo, YK, Mushtaq
Latif, Bari
Imran, A Razzak
Wasim, Waquar, Shoaib, Fazal
A Qadir, Saqlin, Qasim.

Those bold 2-3 are Lap top products, not U19 talent unearthed suddenly.

Those fancy words like natural "ability", "talent" are nauseating to level of arrogance, and you are not the first Pakistani to fell in that trap. In a country with 7th largest population of world, if majority people follows one sports, obviously there will be millions of kids playing that game and some will come with better skill set than most, which Pakistanis tend to boast with words like "natural talent" - empty vessel sounds much. Natural talent doesn't take it beyond a certain level - system produces pro sportsman, and for PAK's fortune, that system was provided by English Counties - now we are watching without proper system what "natural ability & talent" can do in a cricket universe where 10-12 teams play the game seriously and in half of those 10-12, it's a dying game.

Hope it makes sense better this time.

 

[rollingstoned]

More than natural talent, I tend to believe that PAK's cricket glory was almost entirely dependent on external resources - more preciously English County & British Indian FC system. If we search through history, the glory of PAK cricket can be clubbed in 2 periods - first in 1950s, when PAK had the best record for a new entrant, then between mid 1970s to mid 2000s. And the darkest period is 1960s & last 10-12 years (despite winning CT).

1950s had a team with senior players groomed in excellent British Indian FC system, where domestic teams like Punjab, Sindh & Muslims developed first generation of PAK players - AH Kardar, Wazir, Saeed, Khan Md. Fazal, ... by 1960s, everyone apart from Hanif retired and PAK eventually did manage to lose a home series to NZ in 1969 - it was PAK's fortune that, since 1961 war, IND-PAK cricket was closed for 17 years, otherwise in 1960s, despite IND being one of the weakest cricket team that time, IND-PAK head to head would have been very similar to what is in 2010s - I understand it sounds bitter, but harsh truth is always bitter.

In between, in late 1960s & early 1970s, for a great fortune for the nation, PAK toured ENG and 4-5 players got County contracts from their 1967 & 1971 tour performance - Mazid, Asif, Sarfraz, Intekhab, Mushtaq & probably Asif Masood; which lead to the path for several getting a chance to develop their game at early stage of career - Imran, Zaheer, Javed, Wasim Raza, WW, Aquib, Malik ... and many more in Minor Counties, Leagues cricket around Lancashire, Birmingham, London. You should recall that for their "natural talent", PAK picked Mazid & Asif as medium pace "all-rounder" and played them at 8-9, while Javed went to 1975 WC as legspin all-rounder, batting at 7; Glamargoan, Kent & Sussex made them the batsmen they ended like ... while Imran has written enough on this, regarding his own development as a cricketer - I tend to take his words a bit more seriously than some wannabe rebellion.

I understand that "U19" concept of your, which sounds sweet - I myself has written several epics on why "bring them raw & green" from a different perspective, but hardy explains the constant decline of PCT the way you are explaining. The mistake you are making is drawing conclusion from the outcome, rather than looking at the root cause of the event. And, the grudge against Woolmer is complete outburst of frustration - upset people always look for scapegoats. For the first time in their career, MoYo, YK & Inzi got the chance to work with a pro coach for long term and their stats between 2004 to 2007 should suggest that Woolmer was more than a bit of Lap Top coaching.

Just to burst the bubble of "best from U19", I give 12-13 specific names outside the lap top era - Salim Elahi, Md. Zahid, Md. Wasim, Ali Naqvi, Shahid Nazir, Taufique Umar, Imran Nazir, Md. Sami, Faisal Iqbal, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Nasir Jamshed, Hammad Azam & Sami Aslam. These players were picked almost from U19 level, and each one started career with a bang or at least didn't disappoint at start - within 1-2 years, each of them were found out at International level, faded away in short time thereafter. I have seen each of them at their debut few games, and end few games as well - can you suggest why Md. Sami didn't finish with 450 Test wickets or Salim Elahi with 25 ODI hundreds or Hammad not playing for 10-12 years or Fazle Akbar had only 2-3 Tests in career or Zahid retired at 23-24? Obviously, obsession with fitness has a dark past associated with it.

My whole focus was on FC cricket, which you think is least productive part, therefore we are definitely not on same platform. Don't think there is anything here to copy from west - IND doing the same thing for a century now, BD is trying to implement almost cut copy from AUS & it's producing - first batsmen & only few years time, bowlers will also come. It must be quite a discomfort for few of you not to be able to taunt Indians any more for their "phast" bowling in last few years - just wait for a decade, you'll be able to add one more name in that "no taunt" list. Adequately, you'll be put into place for arrogance without substance - rest of the world is no't sitting idle to entertain your ego.

In fact, "copying West", has achieved nothing because there was never any attempt to copy - I can safely say, take out those 35 years of County polished PAK cricket era, SRL has easily achieved much more than PAK with completely domestic products - Arjuna, De Silva, Murali, Sanath, Sanga, Mahela, Dilshan, Angelo, Vaas, Tilakratne, Kalu, Malinga - never played in County before turning close to 30, when they were polished International cricketers; which can't be said for most of PAK greats - therefore I do believe that the need wasn't apparent only. For a reality check - in a very specialized skill of the game, Prassanna Jaya & Mushfiqur Rahim are better WKs than anyone PAK has produced in last 20 years and they are complete domestic products - that should ring a sound bell somewhere.

PAK cricketing fraternity had nothing to boast for their courage - PAK's cricket has started a nose dive from late 1990s, when Players Union forced ECB to restrict on hiring foreign players. As I wrote in other thread - make a 20 men PAK all-time squad for combined 3 formats, only 2 will be debuting in last 20 years .... and those 2 were also fortunate to be polished during that Lap Top era. Take look

Mazid, Hanif, Saeed
Inzi, Javed, Zaheer, MoYo, YK, Mushtaq
Latif, Bari
Imran, A Razzak
Wasim, Waquar, Shoaib, Fazal
A Qadir, Saqlin, Qasim.

Those bold 2-3 are Lap top products, not U19 talent unearthed suddenly.

Those fancy words like natural "ability", "talent" are nauseating to level of arrogance, and you are not the first Pakistani to fell in that trap. In a country with 7th largest population of world, if majority people follows one sports, obviously there will be millions of kids playing that game and some will come with better skill set than most, which Pakistanis tend to boast with words like "natural talent" - empty vessel sounds much. Natural talent doesn't take it beyond a certain level - system produces pro sportsman, and for PAK's fortune, that system was provided by English Counties - now we are watching without proper system what "natural ability & talent" can do in a cricket universe where 10-12 teams play the game seriously and in half of those 10-12, it's a dying game.

Hope it makes sense better this time.

Savage yet not wthout pearls. MMHS true to form.

 

[Markhor]

Those fancy words like natural "ability", "talent" are nauseating to level of arrogance, and you are not the first Pakistani to fell in that trap. In a country with 7th largest population of world, if majority people follows one sports, obviously there will be millions of kids playing that game and some will come with better skill set than most, which Pakistanis tend to boast with words like "natural talent" - empty vessel sounds much. Natural talent doesn't take it beyond a certain level - system produces pro sportsman, and for PAK's fortune, that system was provided by English Counties - now we are watching without proper system what "natural ability & talent" can do in a cricket universe where 10-12 teams play the game seriously and in half of those 10-12, it's a dying game.

Excellently put. We are only doing more damage to ourselves by parroting this tagline of "Pakistan mai talent bohat hait" and making no effort to professionalise our sport like the rest of the cricketing world is doing.

Look at Prithvi Shaw for example. On day one of international cricket and with only 16 FC matches under his belt, this guy played with a poise and assuredness that shows he's ready to play for India - whereas our batsmen, even after years of domestic service are so overrawed once they step up to internationals. That shows how far ahead our neighbours are in terms of having a system that properly nurtures and coaches talent.

You could argue India have far more resources at their disposal than we do. But what explains us lagging behind countries who have a fraction of the population we do like England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa ? We are underachieving for a country of our size and for the interest in the sport we possess.

 

[silent ischemia]

What ?? From what I know, BLCH is the biggest province and you say it makes up only 6% of Pakistan population??

What's there then?? Just barren lands?

Spot on
Someone rightly said "Chand Baluchistan hai"

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Some really good posts in this thread. Especially the OP, a debutant. Welcome to PP!

thanks sir

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I think, it's (Punjab quota) is an unique problem in cricket world. No other Test playing nation is so much dominated by one province (SRL & BD has most players coming from Colombo & Dhaka, but it's not like separate Province) - BUT, in any measures, Punjab will & should get about 50% of teams/regions ..... it's more or less in every aspect; even National assembly has more than 50% seats from Punjab - simply because that state is 60%+ of PAK.

One thing for sure, the structure has to be a pyramid, where top tier is sum of whole country - no 2nd thought about it and that structure must be decentralized from Lahore based office (Ideally PCB HQ shouldn't be at Lahore at all).

May be, two way to fix this issue is instead of province based demarcation, PCB should do it City based. Long back I did some home work on this and few facts might have changed now; but that time I think, there were 96 cricket zones (bottom segment) - which is a nice number. Take 10 major Cities as base & attach 9-10 of these 96 zones to form 10 Regions. I think, I ranked top 10 - Karachi, Lahore, Faisalabad, R'Pindi, Islamabad, Multan, S'kot, Pesawar, Hydarabad & Queta. Ideally, it should be 8, but not sure which 2 should be taken off - may be Inslamabad & R'Pini; Multan & Hyderabad merges to make it 8. This takes out regional bias. These 8 Zones must have independent cricket administration like mini 8 PCBs - PCB should act like a federal Govt. and look after the national interest only.

2nd problem is more tricky. For decades, 2 cities have enjoyed a monopoly of cricket facilities, therefore talent pool in PAK is not equally distributed. No cut can ensure that top 100 players are covered, which is the first target of any nation wide system. If it's made on Provincial quota, then lots of better cricketers from Punjab & Sindh will miss out; and if it remains same like now - PAK cricket won't expand much into a population base of 23 crore.

This was a similar small problem in AUS (majority players coming from NSW), and BIG problem in BD (where 90% players used to come from 2 Cities). We solved that with a process that's actually used in AUS as well - we have 8 Zones now, and regardless of birth place, top 100 (?) players are given a sort of Central contract for FC level (not much money involved yet), with a home zone assigned (could be based on birth or domicile). Every year, before the start of domestic season, teams selects their centrally contracted 15-16 FC players (from that list of ~100) - those players who can't make it for their Regional team, will receive an NOC and they are free to join any other 7 teams for full season. This actually allows that more or less top 100 players are ensured domestic cricket at highest level & they compete against each others.

This is something they use in AUS as well, for which Gilchrist & Border ended for Western Australia & Queensland, instead of NSW. In BD context, few years back, 18-19 years old Liton was 2nd WK of Rangpur (Dhiman 1st WK), and instead of sitting out, he decided to join Sylhet where he played every game as WK-batsman for 2 seasons & returned to his home team as a better player. If everyone is available, Khulna's bowling attack will be Mash, Rubel, Mustafiz, Miraz, Shakib & A Razzak - A Razzak moved out to join Barisal. This actually has made all 8 teams quite close in terms of strength and I believe in last 10-12 years, we have 6 different National Champions.

PAK for a country of 23 crore people, there are too many players to accommodate only in 8 teats, therefore there must be a 2nd tier (may not be FC status), to accommodate next 500 players. BUT, there shouldn't be any overlap - now PAK national players are playing at every level, which doesn't help much in terms of development or space of new players - this MUST be stopped. Top 125-130 players ONLY play in that 8 team frame - that's 14 FC games & 14 List A game. T20 should be a separate formula, which I think is well managed between PSL & National T20 league (should be 16 teams in 2 divisions) .

This is just about the formation of team, which I think isn't the biggest challenge - Regional, City Based, Corporate ... doesn't matter as long as top 100 players are evenly distributed & made to play each others. Biggest challenge is to establish FC cricket as the main event in domestics - otherwise I don't think PSL based PAK would ever reach in top half of cricket elites, apart from some sporadic success. 8 teams, 14 home & away games each for at least 380 overs/game, and FC season spread between SEP to May (so that players get a full cycle of season from wet winter to dry summer), is absolutely bare minimum. Rest, these school cricket, club cricket, academy and other fancy staffs are ornaments - good to have, but won't help more than 20% unless, top 100 players are made to play against each others for 14 proper, hard fought FC games on good, firm & diversified wickets. Cricket by nature is a slow learning game & a self learning game as well - without proper FC cricket, no one can master it. If PCB tries it through PSL - AFG's will be PAK's emotional rival more than IND and IND-PAK Series will end like SAF-ZIM regional contest.

I have no words, You pretty much said everything, and I agree with your points. But I don't really think there is the need for the national T20. You have the PSL for that. And as far as developing players is concerned, the best way to develop them is getting your first class and list A tournaments right.

To give more chances to the upcoming talent there could be an off season U19 or Junior PSL with the same PSL team with age restriction (let's say max u21) and get there all your bright future in the players pool alongside international youngsters. A completely new format with 2 international youngsters and 9 locals in the XI.

What do You think about this?

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I have no words, You pretty much said everything, and I agree with your points. But I don't really think there is the need for the national T20. You have the PSL for that. And as far as developing players is concerned, the best way to develop them is getting your first class and list A tournaments right.

To give more chances to the upcoming talent there could be an off season U19 or Junior PSL with the same PSL team with age restriction (let's say max u21) and get there all your bright future in the players pool alongside international youngsters. A completely new format with 2 international youngsters and 9 locals in the XI.

What do You think about this?

Something like the Cantera in spain or the junior teams in football. Franchises give good training, international standards and good reward

 

[MMHS]

I have no words, You pretty much said everything, and I agree with your points. But I don't really think there is the need for the national T20. You have the PSL for that. And as far as developing players is concerned, the best way to develop them is getting your first class and list A tournaments right.

To give more chances to the upcoming talent there could be an off season U19 or Junior PSL with the same PSL team with age restriction (let's say max u21) and get there all your bright future in the players pool alongside international youngsters. A completely new format with 2 international youngsters and 9 locals in the XI.

What do You think about this?

PSL can accommodate only about 100 players, of which 35 are foreigners. Increasing number of PSL teams isn't a good idea either. That leaves very little space for PAK with 500+ registered cricketers. Therefore a National T20 league in off season (may be just before PSL draft) isn't a bad idea. What you are saying is something like NBA D league - but I don't want young players to be groomed through T20 cricket - PSL's only responsibility is to sell entertainment and fill PCB's coffer, which can be reinvested in FC system. Couple of years back, when several posters were a bit too excited about PSL's prospect to unearth hidden natural talents, I was a bit skeptical - wait for couple of seasons more, most will realize why. National T20 isn't a bad idea to keep next batch floating - sponsorship shouldn't be an issue either if PCB can sell it better. And, it's 2-3 weeks, short, intensive tournament with 2 games every day, may be 3 in week ends, during summer time - not bad. PSL must remain an elite tournament where best 50 of PAK should play with 25 global stars.

For the upcoming talents, best way is what English Counties arranged in past (probably still active) - 2nd XI game. The idea is is, every team will have say 15 contracted professionals and another 15 retainers, mostly young players. During FC season, first 12 will play FC games, simultaneously there will be a 2nd XI leagues with reserves and young (U19, U16) players (not FC status but 2 innings games). In Counties, they used to play 2nd XI game for 3 days with game starting one day after the corresponding FC game (4 days), to accommodate miss out players (from contracted list) or players coming back from injury and few youngsters. It was quite effective in a sense that, lots of youngsters performed well in 2nd XI games and made their way to first XI during the course of season. Viv played against IND in a second XI game for Somerset in 1974 - upon inquiry, Somerset's Captain Brian Close said that the greatest batsmen ever is developing his game this year.

Obviously, there has to be a robust country wide U19 & U16 cricket tournament AND that U16-U19 tournament can't be with 23-25 years old young men playing with double shaven clean cheek.

 

[MMHS]

Excellently put. We are only doing more damage to ourselves by parroting this tagline of "Pakistan mai talent bohat hait" and making no effort to professionalise our sport like the rest of the cricketing world is doing.

Look at Prithvi Shaw for example. On day one of international cricket and with only 16 FC matches under his belt, this guy played with a poise and assuredness that shows he's ready to play for India - whereas our batsmen, even after years of domestic service are so overrawed once they step up to internationals. That shows how far ahead our neighbours are in terms of having a system that properly nurtures and coaches talent.

You could argue India have far more resources at their disposal than we do. But what explains us lagging behind countries who have a fraction of the population we do like England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa ? We are underachieving for a country of our size and for the interest in the sport we possess.

Finance is a constrain definitely, but PCB has to find out a way. To cater that resource (financial) constrain, only solution is exactly what OP is suggesting. If you can't serve whole, go by phases - PCB can't change the condition of 100s of stadiums & pay good enough to players playing even Patrons trophy - that won't happen.

Next best is to serve top tier, so that they can focus on their game & b role model. Similarly, whole PAK is a massive project, but it's possible to improve 8 stadiums.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

PSL can accommodate only about 100 players, of which 35 are foreigners. Increasing number of PSL teams isn't a good idea either. That leaves very little space for PAK with 500+ registered cricketers. Therefore a National T20 league in off season (may be just before PSL draft) isn't a bad idea. What you are saying is something like NBA D league - but I don't want young players to be groomed through T20 cricket - PSL's only responsibility is to sell entertainment and fill PCB's coffer, which can be reinvested in FC system. Couple of years back, when several posters were a bit too excited about PSL's prospect to unearth hidden natural talents, I was a bit skeptical - wait for couple of seasons more, most will realize why. National T20 isn't a bad idea to keep next batch floating - sponsorship shouldn't be an issue either if PCB can sell it better. And, it's 2-3 weeks, short, intensive tournament with 2 games every day, may be 3 in week ends, during summer time - not bad. PSL must remain an elite tournament where best 50 of PAK should play with 25 global stars.

For the upcoming talents, best way is what English Counties arranged in past (probably still active) - 2nd XI game. The idea is is, every team will have say 15 contracted professionals and another 15 retainers, mostly young players. During FC season, first 12 will play FC games, simultaneously there will be a 2nd XI leagues with reserves and young (U19, U16) players (not FC status but 2 innings games). In Counties, they used to play 2nd XI game for 3 days with game starting one day after the corresponding FC game (4 days), to accommodate miss out players (from contracted list) or players coming back from injury and few youngsters. It was quite effective in a sense that, lots of youngsters performed well in 2nd XI games and made their way to first XI during the course of season. Viv played against IND in a second XI game for Somerset in 1974 - upon inquiry, Somerset's Captain Brian Close said that the greatest batsmen ever is developing his game this year.

Obviously, there has to be a robust country wide U19 & U16 cricket tournament AND that U16-U19 tournament can't be with 23-25 years old young men playing with double shaven clean cheek.

Absolutely right, and I said earlier as well that the best thing to develop them is getting your FC and List A right. The idea of the second PSL was something to allow the younger players to play more in conditions more like international cricket (pressure etc) because even though PSL wants to promote talent, teams play only 1 emerging player every season in their XI (karachi Kings haven’t played their true emerging players yet). That’s why