New Zealand qualify for the inaugural ICC World Test Championship final

[Bahnz]

Yep, playing the match in England tilts the scales in NZ's favour. NZ have had a pretty strong side since 2014, and gave England a real arm-wrestle during that 2015 tour (I think Michael Vaughan said after the series that he thought NZ would've probably gone on to win if it had been a 3 or 4 test series).

Getting effectively a warm-up series v England (with one of the 2 tests scheduled for Lords') also helps them out a lot, though they'll need to be careful to manage their bowling resources carefully, given there's only a 4 day turn-around between the 2nd test and the WTC final.

English pitches though do tend to offer a bit of turn as well, which will obviously favour India and leaves NZ with a conundrum - go death or glory with an all-seam bowling attack and hope for overcast conditions, drop Colin de Grandhomme for Mitchell Santner to give them some kind of spin-bowling option, or drop one of the quicks in favour of a specialist spin bowler like Ajaz Patel?

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

It's based on your team not making it past day 3 in NZ.

Well, that's bound to change, India are due a big one in Eng or NZ. Yes, that loss in NZ cost us big time but had they shown the same intensity as in the recent series, could have been slightly diff - am not saying the results would have changed. If the two teams do meet in Lords, it will be a massive matchup.

 

[Junaids]

Doesn't this serve the Aussies right? They had no legit reason to postpone their tour of SA

Well, how about “the worst pandemic for 101 years”

Or “South Africa has a highly contagious mutant strain spreading uncontrollably, and Australia does not want to import it”?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

NZ has been lucky. Most of their wins were at home. And then get to play against maybe India in England, conditions that favor Southee, Boult, etc.

Just imagine if the final was in say Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, or dare I say India. NZ would be annihilated.

Anywhere in the world apart from NZ and England, I'd back India to beat NZ.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Actually only India vs Pakistan would.

not this pkistani team , may be the team of 90s

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Predictions:

NZ vs India at Lord’s
Kyle Jamieson to be the most threatening bowler, will take 6-9 wickets over the course of the match and hit some valuable runs down the order
Pandya to have a good match
Gill won’t have a good match
Pant won’t have a good day or two behind the stumps
Pujara and Kohli to hold the fort but also the floodgates
Jamieson man of the match

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

2019 Semi final was farce. India batted next day after rain, made batting even more difficult. NZ were extremely lucky

Even now they are in finals just winning series at home whereas India had to fight to win series in Aus. NZ is least deserving team in WTC finals and I hope if we reach there, smash the day light out of them.

India got blanked 2-0 in New Zealand. It works both ways.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

New Zealand has been a little lucky anyway to reach the final. It was always India vs Australia on the cards. Shame that superstars like Smith, Cummins, Hazlewood won't be featuring in the final.

India vs New Zealand however makes the contest more even as New Zealand is also a mediocre-ish side away from home. If the sun is out on the playing days, New Zealand will be in trouble. They can't doctor the pitch too unfortunately.

 

[Snowflake]

Well, how about “the worst pandemic for 101 years”

Or “South Africa has a highly contagious mutant strain spreading uncontrollably, and Australia does not want to import it”?

I'll go with "CSA has taken the necessary measures to ensure the players' safety"

 

[Junaids]

I'll go with "CSA has taken the necessary measures to ensure the players' safety"

There’s no such thing - it’s a pandemic.

 

[CanadianG00se]

They won a test in SL too in 2012-13 when Ross Taylor was captain. That SL team was pretty good, it had Mahela, Sanga, Dilshan and Matthews. Herath also was there. They drew test series in SL recently also.

NZ have done well in 2010s. Wins in Aus, SL, UAE, Eng, NZ, they have done it. They don't have any win in India and SA though in last decade. They should win in SA sooner.

They have not won in India since 1988-89 series. NZ are minnows in India and get thrashed even on seaming wicket(their strength) in India. Even a Ranji XI would beat the day light out of these minnows.

 

[CanadianG00se]

India got blanked 2-0 in New Zealand. It works both ways.

That’s my point, NZ need favourable conditions and doctored pitch to win at home. Las time NZ were in India, they were offered seaming wicket, yet were thrashed by India. Can you imagine NZ offering spinning wicket to India in NZ? Lol they would get beat down of their life time.

 

[Heisenberg111]

They won a test in SL too in 2012-13 when Ross Taylor was captain. That SL team was pretty good, it had Mahela, Sanga, Dilshan and Matthews. Herath also was there. They drew test series in SL recently also.

NZ have done well in 2010s. Wins in Aus, SL, UAE, Eng, NZ, they have done it. They don't have any win in India and SA though in last decade. They should win in SA sooner.

Their away record in 2010's is still inferior to SA,Ind,Aus,Pak and England. At par with SL's away record in 2010's, so not a great away record by any means.

 

[Heisenberg111]

They have not won in India since 1988-89 series. NZ are minnows in India and get thrashed even on seaming wicket(their strength) in India. Even a Ranji XI would beat the day light out of these minnows.

NZ have only won 2 tests in India, though they did draw a series against a strong Indian team in India in 2003.

 

[Lonewarrior]

just asking for info, what Pakistan did to loose this race ? how many test matches Pakistan had played ? how many won ?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

just asking for info, what Pakistan did to loose this race ? how many test matches Pakistan had played ? how many won ?

Pakistan’s results:
0-2 Australia (away)
1-0 Sri Lanka (home)
1-0 Bangladesh (home)
0-1 England (away)
0-2 New Zealand (away)
1-0 South Africa (home)

Won - 3
drawn - 3
lost - 5

 

[Ab Fan]

Their away record in 2010's is still inferior to SA,Ind,Aus,Pak and England. At par with SL's away record in 2010's, so not a great away record by any means.

UAE is also away for NZ. Those are alien conditions for them.

 

[Ab Fan]

just asking for info, what Pakistan did to loose this race ? how many test matches Pakistan had played ? how many won ?

This test championship handling has happened in a very bizarre way, so many test series being called off. Except India, no other team deserves to qualify, assuming they beat England.

 

[Heisenberg111]

UAE is also away for NZ. Those are alien conditions for them.

Yeah, even if you count UAE, NZ's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 22, W/L ratio = 0.54

SL's away record in 2010's won 12, lost 21, W/L ratio = 0.57

So even SL's away records is slightly better than NZ's away record in 2010's.

 

[Heisenberg111]

UAE is also away for NZ. Those are alien conditions for them.

Sorry, counting UAE as an away venue

NZ's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 12, W/L ratio = 0.5

SL's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 23, W/L ratio = 0.52

So SL's away record is slightly better than NZ's away record in 2010's.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Pakistan’s results:
0-2 Australia (away)
1-0 Sri Lanka (home)
1-0 Bangladesh (home)
0-1 England (away)
0-2 New Zealand (away)
1-0 South Africa (home)

Won - 3
drawn - 3
lost - 5

This test championship handling has happened in a very bizarre way, so many test series being called off. Except India, no other team deserves to qualify, assuming they beat England.

Thanks.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Sorry, counting UAE as an away venue

NZ's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 12, W/L ratio = 0.5

SL's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 23, W/L ratio = 0.52

So SL's away record is slightly better than NZ's away record in 2010's.

Correction, number of NZ's losses is 24 not 12.

 

[JattMaula]

Chill people. India hasn't qualified yet.

 

[shamaan]

Congrats to new zealand for getting to the final

 

[Bahnz]

Sorry, counting UAE as an away venue

NZ's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 12, W/L ratio = 0.5

SL's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 23, W/L ratio = 0.52

So SL's away record is slightly better than NZ's away record in 2010's.

I think you've gotta look at it slightly more recently than just the 2010's though. The breakthrough year for NZ was 2014 (that was the year when Williamson really came into his own and Latham debuted, giving their top order some desperately needed backbone). Since 2014 their record at away and neutral venues is won 9 lost 14. That kinda record is better than SA, WI and Pak (remembering that the UAE - while a neutral venue -was effectively home turf for Pakistan during this period), comparable with SL and England and significantly worse than only Australia and India.

 

[Heisenberg111]

I think you've gotta look at it slightly more recently than just the 2010's though. The breakthrough year for NZ was 2014 (that was the year when Williamson really came into his own and Latham debuted, giving their top order some desperately needed backbone). Since 2014 their record at away and neutral venues is won 9 lost 14. That kinda record is better than SA, WI and Pak (remembering that the UAE - while a neutral venue -was effectively home turf for Pakistan during this period), comparable with SL and England and significantly worse than only Australia and India.

No, Sorry 2010's decade is from 2010-2019, not from 2014-2019. You cannot use selective or arbitrary periods for you stats. Fact is NZ's away record in 2010's is 7th best. Their away record in 2010's is worse than SA,Ind,Aus,Pak,Eng and SL. So hardly anything to be proud of when your away record is only better than WI, BD and Zim in the entire decade. And bear in mind that 2010's is one of the better decades, NZ have had in test cricket, still their away record is 7th best in the decade.

 

[Bahnz]

No, Sorry 2010's decade is from 2010-2019, not from 2014-2019. You cannot use selective or arbitrary periods for you stats. Fact is NZ's away record in 2010's is 7th best. Their away record in 2010's is worse than SA,Ind,Aus,Pak,Eng and SL. So hardly anything to be proud of when your away record is only better than WI, BD and Zim in the entire decade. And bear in mind that 2010's is one of the better decades, NZ have had in test cricket, still their away record is 7th best in the decade.

I don't care about NZ's record in the 2010's. The point of this discussion I thought was to assess how strong the current side is away from home. And starting with 2014 is not selective or arbitrary, in fact it's significantly less arbitrary then just sticking to decades. Of the members of NZ's team in 2010, only Southee (then 21 years old), Taylor and Watling (who at the time was an opening bat, not a wicket keeper) were playing. NZ's performances at the time are not useful for assessing how strong the current side is away from home. By 2014, the core of the current side was assembled - Latham, KW, Taylor, Watling as keeper, Southee, Boult and Wagner. This is the team that will be playing at Lords' in June

 

[shaz619]

What a bloody shambles the WTC has been, ICC should have used their tiny/greedy brains and postponed this, instead the WTC has been tainted. The no.1 ranking still holds more value but I guess it’s a bigger joke how NZ claimed this, sh!t team away from home

 

[Heisenberg111]

I don't care about NZ's record in the 2010's. The point of this discussion I thought was to assess how strong the current side is away from home. And starting with 2014 is not selective or arbitrary, in fact it's significantly less arbitrary then just sticking to decades. Of the members of NZ's team in 2010, only Southee (then 21 years old), Taylor and Watling (who at the time was an opening bat, not a wicket keeper) were playing. NZ's performances at the time are not useful for assessing how strong the current side is away from home. By 2014, the core of the current side was assembled - Latham, KW, Taylor, Watling as keeper, Southee, Boult and Wagner. This is the team that will be playing at Lords' in June

Current Kiwi side will be whitewashed in India and Aus. Will probably lose in Eng and SA too. The only places you can say for sure they will win are WI,BD and Zim. They couldn't even beat SL in 2019.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Current Kiwi side will be whitewashed in India and Aus. Will probably lose in Eng and SA too. The only places you can say for sure they will win are WI,BD and Zim. They couldn't even beat SL in 2019.

I wouldn’t be too sure of that too. BD are a formidable side at home against SENA. They have won against Australia/England/RSA in test. Even WI at home are not easy, it just Team India make it look ridiculously easy or else look at England, they failed to win series.

The only place NZ have realistic chance winning an away series is against Ireland.

 

[CanadianG00se]

What a bloody shambles the WTC has been, ICC should have used their tiny/greedy brains and postponed this, instead the WTC has been tainted. The no.1 ranking still holds more value but I guess it’s a bigger joke how NZ claimed this, sh!t team away from home

This whole WTC have turned out to be a complete mess. They should have every team play against each other both home and away to make it fair for everyone. Right now NZ are in finals beating teams at home. Lol

 

[Bahnz]

Current Kiwi side will be whitewashed in India and Aus. Will probably lose in Eng and SA too. The only places you can say for sure they will win are WI,BD and Zim. They couldn't even beat SL in 2019.

So what if they'd get whitwashed in India or Australia? India got whitewashed on their last tour of NZ, and English conditions are much more similar to NZ than to India or Australia (and again the WTC is what this thread is about). NZ drew their last tour of England 1-1 and and lost a one-off test in SA, when they were facing a team that still featured Steyn, Rabada and Phillander. NZ would be favourites against the current SA side imo. They beat Sri Lanka by an innings at Colombo (the only team besides India to do so in the past 20 years). And of course they actually have a winning record in the UAE.

Seriously, saying NZ are a crap touring side is ridiculous. They're vulnerable in Australia in the same way that England are (who've lost 9 of their last 10 tests in Australia) and no one can beat India in India right now. But for the sake of this WTC final, there's no reason to think that English conditions won't suit NZ right down to the ground.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Sorry, counting UAE as an away venue

NZ's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 24, W/L ratio = 0.5

SL's away record in 2010's is won 12, lost 23, W/L ratio = 0.52

So SL's away record is slightly better than NZ's away record in 2010's.

Shocking. NZ is a middling/below average team, not the rightful #1.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

This whole WTC have turned out to be a complete mess. They should have every team play against each other both home and away to make it fair for everyone. Right now NZ are in finals beating teams at home. Lol

That’s odd because Pakistan has also won all its matches at home so far with only one rained out. Not sure why there’s a calculation disparity and Pakistan’s sixth while New Zealand’s first on the table. Hasn’t New Zealand won a single away match?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

That’s odd because Pakistan has also won all its matches at home so far with only one rained out. Not sure why there’s a calculation disparity and Pakistan’s sixth while New Zealand’s first on the table. Hasn’t New Zealand won a single away match?

We’ve drawn two matches away too

 

[Jeetlodil]

It was a wierd concept impacted more by COVID but India truly deserve to be there at the final. Not sure if any other team deserves the final spot. Australia may be had they gone to SA and won or if England beat India, but then India go out. NZ , I think have been lucky

 

[Snowflake]

There’s no such thing - it’s a pandemic.

There is. Just like we saw in Australia, Pakistan and anywhere else where cricket is happening.

 

[Junaids]

This whole WTC have turned out to be a complete mess.

They should have every team play against each other both home and away to make it fair for everyone.

Right now NZ are in finals beating teams at home. Lol

I agree with the first point. It should be a home and away 4 year cycle.

Weirdly though, New Zealand are rightfully in the Final.

The problem with the separate World Test Rankings is that they are always a couple of years in the past.

The beauty of the World Test Championship format is that it is much better at picking up which teams right now are in decline (Australia), are at rock bottom (South Africa), are at a relative high point (New Zealand) and are successfully regenerating (India).

The format is half-right. But already the World Test Championship is the only prize in cricket which has any value at all.

If you win the ICC World Cup you are the equivalent of the winner of the FA Cup. But if you win the ICC World Test Championship Final you are the undisputed kings of world cricket.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

India got a full series against Bangaldesh of all teams..only team so far to play full series against Bangaldesh in the current cycle . That alone gave a huge advantage to India and 120 free points to India on a platter.

NZ Whitewashed India at their home so they are not undeserving by any means.

so 2 tests as per you is a full series....hmm....and how about commenting on how that same BD is having the wood over WI in the current series (at least in the odi 's just finished) but NZ blanked WI in their home series....

 

[Hasan123]

Congratulations to New Zealand, with the final in England they have a very good chance of winning the final.

 

[Firebat]

 

[King_Kohli]

New Zealand's squad for World Test Championship' final and England series:

Williamson (C), Watling (WK), Taylor, Latham, Boult, Blundell, Bracewell, De Grandhomme, Duffy, Henry, Jamieson, Mitchell, Nicholls, Ajaz, Rachin Ravindra, Snatner, Southee, Wagner and Young.


Rachin Ravindra and Jacob Duffy join Devon Conway as the players uncapped at Test level called up for the tour.

 

[King_Kohli]

 

[King_Kohli]

Nz planned very well for WTC final, they are going to have enough practice on England pitches with red ball.
On the other side we are playing IPL before WTC final.

Playing WTC final after IPL is pathetic and poor planning from BCCI.
One more tournament loss on cards....

No one will save from this embarrassment. We deserve this humiliation lmao.

 

[rhony]

Nz planned very well for WTC final, they are going to have enough practice on England pitches with red ball.
On the other side we are playing IPL before WTC final.

Playing WTC final after IPL is pathetic and poor planning from BCCI.
One more tournament loss on cards....

No one will save from this embarrassment. We deserve this humiliation lmao.

Great achievement for NZ to reach the Test final after the ODI final. They needed that luck. But, do they have what it takes to cross the final hurdle? Don't think so. India dominates the league phases and bottles at the final stages. They deserve a bit of luck too. So, the gist is, its a battle of nerves than the battle of skills. Players are professionals that can adapt well. Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin, Bumrah, Ishanth need some practice. That's the entire Indian bowling line up that hasn't played a game in a while. Some game time for BK will help too. IPL gives them enough practise. If the England pitch assists swing, then Indian batting order is toast anyway. If it doesn't, it makes no difference where you practise.

 

[rhony]

Another important point is, where else can you practise against Boult and Kyle Jamieson for 14 games? Rohit and Kohli can even play them in the nets for a month. It's a good deal overall. Kane has the same advantage and so be it.