What's new

No reasons for the likes of Shoaib Malik, Mohammad Hafeez to continue playing at the highest level!

shaz619

Test Star
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Runs
38,368
Post of the Week
7
Shoaib Malik is lucky to be alive, watching him get smashed in the back of his head got me thinking; is that what it will take for a senior to leave the team ? I know that he may well return to the international side but what if there's a time when that may not be possible beyond his own control.

The likes of Hafeez and Malik are no spring chickens, the international level is very fierce and competitive; their fitness might be decent but reflex's do diminish with age and you're not going to be the man you were at 20. Yes it is the sissy era of cricket where laws generally protect batsman and make life so much easier for them but all it takes is one blow to seriously threaten your health.

Am not Hafeez's or Malik's greatest fan but god forbid don't want anything bad to happen, they have family's etc both have made their money and I see no reason for them to continue at the highest level, am sure we all can agree on this.

Beyond their failures will always look back on Malik's defining moment running towards Afridi doing the star fish pose in 2009, he had a decent run in that tournament and the final cameo was crucial for us; while Hafeez's greatest highlight was smashing India to pieces at the oval in 2017. No doubt both have handicapped Pakistan and done so much harm but they have some fond memories to look back on. Time for them to be extremely selfish, but extremely selfish with regards to their own health.
 
Shoaib Malik is lucky to be alive, watching him get smashed in the back of his head got me thinking; is that what it will take for a senior to leave the team ? I know that he may well return to the international side but what if there's a time when that may not be possible beyond his own control.

The likes of Hafeez and Malik are no spring chickens, the international level is very fierce and competitive; their fitness might be decent but reflex's do diminish with age and you're not going to be the man you were at 20. Yes it is the sissy era of cricket where laws generally protect batsman and make life so much easier for them but all it takes is one blow to seriously threaten your health.

Am not Hafeez's or Malik's greatest fan but god forbid don't want anything bad to happen, they have family's etc both have made their money and I see no reason for them to continue at the highest level, am sure we all can agree on this.

Beyond their failures will always look back on Malik's defining moment running towards Afridi doing the star fish pose in 2009, he had a decent run in that tournament and the final cameo was crucial for us; while Hafeez's greatest highlight was smashing India to pieces at the oval in 2017. No doubt both have handicapped Pakistan and done so much harm but they have some fond memories to look back on. Time for them to be extremely selfish, but extremely selfish with regards to their own health.
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] Send this post to Malik, Hafeez and Mickey Arther please. Thanks
 
Ideal time to introduce the likes of Talat and Sahibzada. We need to evolve and move on with the times if we want to compete at the highest level. The need for a revamped middle-order has never been more evident.
 
Sahibzada Farhan and Hussain Talat should play instead of Hafeez and Malik. Both are finished.

Fakhar, Farhan, Babar, Haris, Talat, Sarfaraz, Shadab, Faheem, Hassan, Amir, Shaheen Shah

Here you have two attacking openers, a good middle order and an attacking lower order.

Bowling wise you have 2 left arm and 2 right arm seamers, a leg-spinner and a slow left arm.

That’s my team for the World Cup 😊
 
Replacements:

Hafeez: Talat
Malik: Maqsood
Azhar: Mukhtar

Feel a bit sorry for Maqsood the way he got banded around the batting order when he was doing well. Then he got unlucky with a hand injury. But for all intents and purposes, he is a certified TTF and won't bring anything to the party except more mediocrity.
 
Sahibzada Farhan and Hussain Talat should play instead of Hafeez and Malik. Both are finished.

Fakhar, Farhan, Babar, Haris, Talat, Sarfaraz, Shadab, Faheem, Hassan, Amir, Shaheen Shah

Here you have two attacking openers, a good middle order and an attacking lower order.

Bowling wise you have 2 left arm and 2 right arm seamers, a leg-spinner and a slow left arm.

That’s my team for the World Cup ��

I have heard little about Farhan so I am assuming he is a good prospect. I would like to have Sarjeel in Farhans place but I don't know if that is possible since I don't where his case currently stands.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is very raw and at Pakpassion we have tendency to over hype the players. He is still untested so I wouldn't bring him into the side right away so I would leave him out for now. I would pick Sadaf Hassan instead.

Amir has been average since his return to cricket. On a slow turning wicket I would leave Amir out and play another spinner, maybe Imad Wasim or another off spinner.
 
I have heard little about Farhan so I am assuming he is a good prospect. I would like to have Sarjeel in Farhans place but I don't know if that is possible since I don't where his case currently stands.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is very raw and at Pakpassion we have tendency to over hype the players. He is still untested so I wouldn't bring him into the side right away so I would leave him out for now. I would pick Sadaf Hassan instead.

Amir has been average since his return to cricket. On a slow turning wicket I would leave Amir out and play another spinner, maybe Imad Wasim or another off spinner.
Sharjeel is done and dusted for 5 years.
 
Shoaib Malik is lucky to be alive, watching him get smashed in the back of his head got me thinking; is that what it will take for a senior to leave the team ? I know that he may well return to the international side but what if there's a time when that may not be possible beyond his own control.

The likes of Hafeez and Malik are no spring chickens, the international level is very fierce and competitive; their fitness might be decent but reflex's do diminish with age and you're not going to be the man you were at 20. Yes it is the sissy era of cricket where laws generally protect batsman and make life so much easier for them but all it takes is one blow to seriously threaten your health.

Am not Hafeez's or Malik's greatest fan but god forbid don't want anything bad to happen, they have family's etc both have made their money and I see no reason for them to continue at the highest level, am sure we all can agree on this.

Beyond their failures will always look back on Malik's defining moment running towards Afridi doing the star fish pose in 2009, he had a decent run in that tournament and the final cameo was crucial for us; while Hafeez's greatest highlight was smashing India to pieces at the oval in 2017. No doubt both have handicapped Pakistan and done so much harm but they have some fond memories to look back on. Time for them to be extremely selfish, but extremely selfish with regards to their own health.

The fundamental point that you're trying to make about Malik and Hafeez needing to retire is completely correct and I'm sure most of the people on this forum have already agreed.

But your argument about how he got injured and this is a sign makes no sense. It wasn't Maliks age or reflexes that resulted in him getting hit on the back of his head. If anything he still remains one of the fittest members of the squad.

I fail to see how they are any more in danger than the younger members and thus should retire is a valid statement.
 
Feel a bit sorry for Maqsood the way he got banded around the batting order when he was doing well. Then he got unlucky with a hand injury. But for all intents and purposes, he is a certified TTF and won't bring anything to the party except more mediocrity.

It looks like he's improved his game. Deserves a second chance in the ODIs.
 
I have heard little about Farhan so I am assuming he is a good prospect. I would like to have Sarjeel in Farhans place but I don't know if that is possible since I don't where his case currently stands.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is very raw and at Pakpassion we have tendency to over hype the players. He is still untested so I wouldn't bring him into the side right away so I would leave him out for now. I would pick Sadaf Hassan instead.

Amir has been average since his return to cricket. On a slow turning wicket I would leave Amir out and play another spinner, maybe Imad Wasim or another off spinner.

We need someone with some pace.

Sadaf could be given a go before the World Cup. We have 5 ODIs in England to tinker with our squad.

Imad is overrated.
 
There is no way Hafeez and Malik are going anywhere before playing the 2019 WC no matter how much anyone says otherwise.
 
The thing with Hafeez is that his performances will be justified by a lot of people saying that he has scored a couple of 50s after which he warrants another go.

The problem with this line of reasoning?

Hafeez is not a youngster! He is someone with 200 matches under his belt. The performances of such seniors need to be scrutinized much more closely and on a much harsher scale. In the best teams of the world 32+ year olds with close to 150+ matches aren't tolerated unless they are performing exceptionally well even if it's for their specific role in the team. Why is that? Being of such an age with so much experience at the top level simply means that your potential is near the end; you have become what you were always going to become and there is little if any room for improvement. India let go of their aging seniors Dravid, Sehwag and Gambhir with Sachin tendulker holding a place in the team only due to star power. The reasoning is simple; if all you can do is a good or decent job with all this experience then move over for a youngster who will do the same BUT with plenty of potential for improvement as he gains experience at the top level. As a senior you are either very very good or no good
 
We need someone with some pace.

Sadaf could be given a go before the World Cup. We have 5 ODIs in England to tinker with our squad.

Imad is overrated.

I agree we need someone with pace and it is quite sad that we don't have genuine fast bowlers. What is Afridis pace like? Also, I still wouldn't bring him in, it would only ruin his career. We don't have Imran khan who would tell the bowlers to just bowel as fast as you can and don't worry about line, length and leaking runs. With our current captain and management team they would turn a fast bowler into medium pacers focusing on line and length. I just don't want Shaheen to be thrown into the middle without anyone providing proper support to him and fully backing him up even if he fails in the first two series.

Sadaf deserves a chance more then any other bowler and should be selected but I am afraid PCB and Inzi don't have foresight to see that and will select another TTFs.

The only reason I said Imad is because he is usually economical with the ball and handy with the bat. Plus I don't know another good off spinner.
 
There is no way Hafeez and Malik are going anywhere before playing the 2019 WC no matter how much anyone says otherwise.

Sadly you are right. In Pakistan cricket, it's all about the players and their individual mile stones than what is better for the team. Our chances of winning drop significantly with these two in the playing XI so we can forget about winning the WC.
 
Shoaib Malik is lucky to be alive, watching him get smashed in the back of his head got me thinking; is that what it will take for a senior to leave the team ? I know that he may well return to the international side but what if there's a time when that may not be possible beyond his own control.

The likes of Hafeez and Malik are no spring chickens, the international level is very fierce and competitive; their fitness might be decent but reflex's do diminish with age and you're not going to be the man you were at 20. Yes it is the sissy era of cricket where laws generally protect batsman and make life so much easier for them but all it takes is one blow to seriously threaten your health.

Am not Hafeez's or Malik's greatest fan but god forbid don't want anything bad to happen, they have family's etc both have made their money and I see no reason for them to continue at the highest level, am sure we all can agree on this.

Beyond their failures will always look back on Malik's defining moment running towards Afridi doing the star fish pose in 2009, he had a decent run in that tournament and the final cameo was crucial for us; while Hafeez's greatest highlight was smashing India to pieces at the oval in 2017. No doubt both have handicapped Pakistan and done so much harm but they have some fond memories to look back on. Time for them to be extremely selfish, but extremely selfish with regards to their own health.

Oh my man, you are not serious?

Yes Hafeez deserves to be dropped, especially since he can not bowl (again!) but Malik has been arguably Pakistan's second best batsman in the last 2 years. His sr of over 90 is the best for anyone in the team in that same period with as many matches. Yes he has had a bad series against NZ but so had everyone else.
 
No i dont agree.They still have role in team as finisher at No.6 in oneday team and yes either of two should play in a match and not both together..
Till 2019 world cup
Fakhar
Sarfaraz
Babar
Umar akmal
Harris sohail
Hafeez/malik
Faheem ashraf/hussain talat/amir yamin
Shahdab/imad
Hassan ali
Amir/sohail khan
Junaid/Rumaan/
 
The fundamental point that you're trying to make about Malik and Hafeez needing to retire is completely correct and I'm sure most of the people on this forum have already agreed.

But your argument about how he got injured and this is a sign makes no sense. It wasn't Maliks age or reflexes that resulted in him getting hit on the back of his head. If anything he still remains one of the fittest members of the squad.

I fail to see how they are any more in danger than the younger members and thus should retire is a valid statement.

If you put a bit more thought into the post you'd see that I did not say that Malik's reflex's are linked to how he got injured god knows how where you got that from lmao, however I said it did get me thinking beyond that incident and what is valid is this, he is no spring chicken and fitness may be excellent however your reflex's do decline as you get older there is no beating father time, this is why his health would be of greater concern when facing short pitched bowling for example compared to a youngster and he's not one to have the best technique against fast bowling anyway.
 
Oh my man, you are not serious?

Yes Hafeez deserves to be dropped, especially since he can not bowl (again!) but Malik has been arguably Pakistan's second best batsman in the last 2 years. His sr of over 90 is the best for anyone in the team in that same period with as many matches. Yes he has had a bad series against NZ but so had everyone else.

It's not about that, this is about Malik's health; you must have little concern for him if you genuinely wanted to see that ancient fella continue. Do you want to see Malik get stretchered off the pitch ?
 
People should stop being selfish for once and think beyond their fandom. Their performances are irrelevant in this regard, it's about their health. Anyhow, am shocked that all your hopes and dreams are pinned on guys who will be nearly 45 years old when the 2019 WC comes around.
 
It's not about that, this is about Malik's health; you must have little concern for him if you genuinely wanted to see that ancient fella continue. Do you want to see Malik get stretchered off the pitch ?

Your thread isn't about Malik missing the series, its about him being dropped permanently, which makes no sense. Of course, his concussion will need to be properly evaluated but if he is adjudged to be fit, then he should play "at the highest level".
 
People should stop being selfish for once and think beyond their fandom. Their performances are irrelevant in this regard, it's about their health. Anyhow, am shocked that all your hopes and dreams are pinned on guys who will be nearly 45 years old when the 2019 WC comes around.

Malik will be 37 by 2019. The issue is not age, it is if he can maintain his performances. If the NZ trip was just a drop in form then he should most definitely play on. If it lingers, then he has obviously come to the end of a sparkling ODI career.
 
Malik will be 37 by 2019. The issue is not age, it is if he can maintain his performances. If the NZ trip was just a drop in form then he should most definitely play on. If it lingers, then he has obviously come to the end of a sparkling ODI career.

Age is fundamentally a big problem, fitness does not equate the fact that his reflex's are going to be at his peak and on top of that there is no reason an old fossil should be invested in when the future is more important. Sparkling ODI career my foot.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh my man, you are not serious?

Yes Hafeez deserves to be dropped, especially since he can not bowl (again!) but Malik has been arguably Pakistan's second best batsman in the last 2 years. His sr of over 90 is the best for anyone in the team in that same period with as many matches. Yes he has had a bad series against NZ but so had everyone else.
Boss, it really isn’t that difficult in these days of stats on sports being easily available. Every fan and his dog knows exactly what kind of opposition, surfaces, and situations have allowed for that strike rate and average over the last two years
 
The thing with Hafeez is that his performances will be justified by a lot of people saying that he has scored a couple of 50s after which he warrants another go.

The problem with this line of reasoning?

Hafeez is not a youngster! He is someone with 200 matches under his belt. The performances of such seniors need to be scrutinized much more closely and on a much harsher scale. In the best teams of the world 32+ year olds with close to 150+ matches aren't tolerated unless they are performing exceptionally well even if it's for their specific role in the team. Why is that? Being of such an age with so much experience at the top level simply means that your potential is near the end; you have become what you were always going to become and there is little if any room for improvement. India let go of their aging seniors Dravid, Sehwag and Gambhir with Sachin tendulker holding a place in the team only due to star power. The reasoning is simple; if all you can do is a good or decent job with all this experience then move over for a youngster who will do the same BUT with plenty of potential for improvement as he gains experience at the top level. As a senior you are either very very good or no good

Great post The reason for the inclusion of the likes of hafeez and malik is that their experience should come handy in traditionally difficult places for subcontinent teams like in south africa, nz, eng, australia

Malik failed in CT and nz, hafeez has been poor in both 2 barring the final

What is the point of including these two when they go missing when the going gets tough? At least bringing in fresher players there is the possibility that we could unearth a long term player with a high ceiling

With hafeez and malik we know what we are getting and for the number of years and games they have played its not good enough
 
Oh my man, you are not serious?

Yes Hafeez deserves to be dropped, especially since he can not bowl (again!) but Malik has been arguably Pakistan's second best batsman in the last 2 years. His sr of over 90 is the best for anyone in the team in that same period with as many matches. Yes he has had a bad series against NZ but so had everyone else.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...on-weaker-teams-in-ODIs&p=9576829#post9576829

See the stats. Malik has bashed minnows on Asian pitches. He is an extraordinary player in slow and low conditions but useless anywhere else and tends to disappear in tournaments.
 
Inzamam is lazy and has a limited brain to be innovative. Once he establish a pool of 20 players he will recycle them again and again. Not forget his nepotism and favoritism as well.
 
Hoping youngsters in PSl will cause enough roar to outclass and replace these seniors the same way Shadab has done (he has easily filled afridi's place) and Hassan ali (taking wahab riaz's place)
Also malik doesn't seem to have enough arm power these days. Seen him get out on the boundary a couple of times recently attempting a 6.
Management has been given an opportunity to replace them in the light of Hafeez's bowling ban and Malik's concussion issues...!
 
Shobstopper has all but stopped churning out the runs now. Time to call it a day.
 
Age is fundamentally a big problem, fitness does not equate the fact that his reflex's are going to be at his peak and on top of that there is no reason an old fossil should be invested in when the future is more important. Sparkling ODI career my foot.

There is nothing to suggest his reflexes are worse than the younger guys in the team. He is a better fielder than most, and that is just one example. He clears the boundary better than most of the younger guys too, so whats the issue? Plus he isnt turning 45 like you suggested lol
 
There is nothing to suggest his reflexes are worse than the younger guys in the team. He is a better fielder than most, and that is just one example. He clears the boundary better than most of the younger guys too, so whats the issue? Plus he isnt turning 45 like you suggested lol

If reflex's didn't decline as you age then cricketer's would be playing deep into their late 30s and early 40s, you only see asian cricketer's go on longer then they should because they are too stubborn to do the right thing and retire past their prime. It is also better to invest in a younger man then a fella who will be a Pakistani '37' years of age when the WC comes around, he doesn't have the best technique against fast bowling and with father time not on his side it's going to be increasingly unlikely for him to get out of harms when it comes to the short pitched stuff so the likely of severe injury is actually a very high probability compared to others
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] most of the points u made in the thread so far are valid and i think most the people will agree but the problem is inzimam and co and they will again say..look we can do too mny chnges at one time and they will retain at least on of them and the other will be recalled when the youngster fail for one or two matches.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] most of the points u made in the thread so far are valid and i think most the people will agree but the problem is inzimam and co and they will again say..look we can do too mny chnges at one time and they will retain at least on of them and the other will be recalled when the youngster fail for one or two matches.

That's the sad part, these seniors have such a long rope while these youngsters will get demonized immediately. When it comes to our future it's the youth which need to be invested in and supported all the way, Malik and Hafeez's time has come and gone, even if they were having record breaking seasons an argument could still be made that we should move on from them because they're just too old.

Cricket is not an old mans sport and people seem to think that fitness / reflex's are linked, am afraid they're not; you could be the fittest cricketer in the game but as you age it will still take you longer to get your eye in because your reflex's are not going to be the same at 20-25 as they are in your late 30s it's just common sense, and am a big fan of Younis Khan but it's also one of the fundamental reasons why he hasn't produced hundreds consistently during his final run, he was still our best bat and arguably the fittest guy in the team but in testing conditions it took longer to get accustomed at the highest level past his peak due to the decline of reflex's and this a batsman who Malik and Hafeez are not fit to shine his shoes, who do they think they are? chances are both will get themselves injured as well, I know many of us get injured just seeing their names on the team sheet but they should think about their family's for once and retire in peace.
 
If your "experienced stalwarts" are Yousuf and Inzamam then obviously you accomodate such talent. But if Malik and Hafeez are your "senior pros" the juniors look to for inspiration then god help you.

Shoaib Malik has always been a sitting duck on pitches with bounce and against quality seam/swing outside Asia. This series performance should've come as a surprise to noone.

His diabolical average in England and NZ is overlooked merely as he's a "sainted senior" - but a youngster with a similar record would never be tolerated.
 
They need to be dropped. Our think tank favours experience too much. Our CT win was because of youngsters so that should be an indication that if you back youngsters they will come good.

Hafeez will unfortunately be selected whilst Malik could be dropped depending on how his replacements do in the T20 series.
 
Here we are talking about dropping seniors trash and behind the scene some people are planning to bring Kamran back to the team...
 
If reflex's didn't decline as you age then cricketer's would be playing deep into their late 30s and early 40s, you only see asian cricketer's go on longer then they should because they are too stubborn to do the right thing and retire past their prime. It is also better to invest in a younger man then a fella who will be a Pakistani '37' years of age when the WC comes around, he doesn't have the best technique against fast bowling and with father time not on his side it's going to be increasingly unlikely for him to get out of harms when it comes to the short pitched stuff so the likely of severe injury is actually a very high probability compared to others

What is this? I never said reflexes don't decline but you claimed Malik's had declined, yet there is no evidence of that. If you can show me 11 better fielders in Pakistan, I'll agree. Can you show me 11 better batsmen too? 11 guys who are fitter?

And plenty of non Asian cricketers play well into their 30s. You seem to have a lot of misguided dislike and stereotypes.
 
Both should be thrown out asap. Enough of this crap. I thought Malik should continue till 19 WC but he was just useless against NZ. No more seniors rubbish.
 
What is this? I never said reflexes don't decline but you claimed Malik's had declined, yet there is no evidence of that. If you can show me 11 better fielders in Pakistan, I'll agree. Can you show me 11 better batsmen too? 11 guys who are fitter?

And plenty of non Asian cricketers play well into their 30s. You seem to have a lot of misguided dislike and stereotypes.

Why on earth are you talking about bloody fielders, and what I had said was Malik's reflex's have declined and how that will magnify the fact that he is rubbish against bounce/swing/seam. Not that he is but Malik could be better then 10000 youngsters, it still makes more sense to develop them then invest in a budda! it's about the future, Malik is not the future. You seem to create your own narrow minded arguments whilst going off on a tangent, stick to the points being discussed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Long overdue retirements - Shoaib Malik and Mohammad Hafeez

Malik has had a 20 year career, whats he done to deserve such a long career? Hafeez has been around for 15 years and in view that is 10 years too long. Both are functional players but they should have gone along time ago.
 
Agreed, they want the exposure for more money due to sponsorships etc
 
There is no need for these 2 be playing against Zimbabwe. Most teams will play youngsters but we play our strongest team.
 
Back
Top