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On what basis does Sarfaraz Ahmed deserve to bat at #4 in ODIs?

msb314

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I have been hearing this request a lot on PP that Sarfraz is batting too low in the lineup, he is best suited at no. 4 etc.

However, I disagree.

We have superior batsman in the form of Babar, Hafeez, Haris and Malik who are rightfully playing in the top order (or in the case of Haris will soon be in that role).

Yes we all know Malik's limitations against pace bowling but the fact of the matter is he is a far better player of spin than Sarfraz is - same goes for Hafeez despite the fact that both are struggling right now. To put it another way - putting Sarfraz at no. 4 will make no difference and IMO will be a downgrade.

Hence, Sarfraz will have to make do at no. 6 and simply adapt his game. If the team is collapsing, he will have to consolidate and bat in damage control mode whilst if big hitting is required - he will have to do just that.

Take the example of MS Dhoni. When he started off his career - he batted at no. 3 and came up with a bang with his 148* against Pakistan at Vizag. He continued to bat at no. 3 for two years and had a lot of success there. However, he moved down there order in 2007 when their team management realized Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar etc. and then later even Kohli were simply superior batsman. However, Dhoni did not let that affect him and still produced some amazing knocks at no. 6 and 7. He still averages 50+ at a SR of 90+ in that lower order role. Sarfraz should take inspiration from him...
 
You can put him in any position from 1-7, it will not make a difference. For a start, he is too unfit to play a long innings up the order.

Batting up the order means he will shine the light on himself even more and when he fails, it will be a hasty push out of the exit door for him.

So in true Sarfraz style, he waits on someone to bail him out and take the credit, and also he has the convenient fall guys in the top order who will get the blame before Sarfraz if batting fails.

He can hide but the net is closing in on him.
 
Remember the 90 he made against England a year and a half ago? Remember his centuries in World Cup 2015? He will assume more responsibility when batting at #4 because he will be expected to prevent collapses. He comes in too late at #7 when the damage is already done. Right now, he's hiding behind the likes of Fakhar, Babar, and to a certain extent Malik/Hafeez ( depending on If they play good on that particular day). And plus, a captain leads by example, and this is the perfect chance for him. He has potential, he just needs sort out things like fitness.
 
You can put him in any position from 1-7, it will not make a difference. For a start, he is too unfit to play a long innings up the order.

Batting up the order means he will shine the light on himself even more and when he fails, it will be a hasty push out of the exit door for him.

So in true Sarfraz style, he waits on someone to bail him out and take the credit, and also he has the convenient fall guys in the top order who will get the blame before Sarfraz if batting fails.

He can hide but the net is closing in on him.

So what, you want someone like Kamran Akmal to replace him? Sarfraz as a captain has done way more in a single year than his predecessors have. Don't forget his contribution in WC 2015 and his 90 against England. He's just having some issues like everyone else does, we should support him so he does better for the team. That's the problem with us Pakistanis. We call for someone to be dropped as soon as they start performing bad instead of seeing what the problem is. In dropping the player makes sense, then yes, I say do it. But first assess the problem.
 
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Batting positions[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NOs[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Avg[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100s[/td][td]50s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Top five[/td][td]25[/td][td]5[/td][td]962[/td][td]105[/td][td]48.10[/td][td]1078[/td][td]89.24[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 and below[/td][td]37[/td][td]8[/td][td]713[/td][td]64[/td][td]24.59[/td][td]857[/td][td]83.20[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]
 
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I think people have been questioning his spot in the X1 right now. He has been in pretty poor form recently. He only averages 29.5 in the last one year with a poor SR of 75. He has just scored one 50 against Sri Lanka. This is in spite of Pakistan playing games against SL and WI over the past few months.
 
Sarfraz's stats batting at 5 or above speak for him. He's the only batsman capable of playing risk free cricket and rotating the strike, plus don't forget he was the highest run scorer from BOTH teams in the series against England. You only have to see how he played before he demoted himself to 6 after Hafeez's return to answer your question. Yes, his performances have dipped but any slightly knowledgeable fan could see as to WHY. He does not have the game to bat below 5. All in all, a really poor thread.
 
Actually PCB has wasted Kamran Akmal by playing Sarfaraz Ahmad. At least Kamran was a specialist batsman and aggressive too. Sarfaraz is suitable only for tests.

Now PCB need to find a new wicketkeeper batsman and groom him fully.

Umair Masood and Rohail Nazir are the ones to look for.
 
I have been hearing this request a lot on PP that Sarfraz is batting too low in the lineup, he is best suited at no. 4 etc.

However, I disagree.

We have superior batsman in the form of Babar, Hafeez, Haris and Malik who are rightfully playing in the top order (or in the case of Haris will soon be in that role).

Yes we all know Malik's limitations against pace bowling but the fact of the matter is he is a far better player of spin than Sarfraz is - same goes for Hafeez despite the fact that both are struggling right now. To put it another way - putting Sarfraz at no. 4 will make no difference and IMO will be a downgrade.

Hence, Sarfraz will have to make do at no. 6 and simply adapt his game. If the team is collapsing, he will have to consolidate and bat in damage control mode whilst if big hitting is required - he will have to do just that.

Take the example of MS Dhoni. When he started off his career - he batted at no. 3 and came up with a bang with his 148* against Pakistan at Vizag. He continued to bat at no. 3 for two years and had a lot of success there. However, he moved down there order in 2007 when their team management realized Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar etc. and then later even Kohli were simply superior batsman. However, Dhoni did not let that affect him and still produced some amazing knocks at no. 6 and 7. He still averages 50+ at a SR of 90+ in that lower order role. Sarfraz should take inspiration from him...

Because he averages 50 plus in the top 5

End of discussion
 
Actually PCB has wasted Kamran Akmal by playing Sarfaraz Ahmad. At least Kamran was a specialist batsman and aggressive too. Sarfaraz is suitable only for tests.

Now PCB need to find a new wicketkeeper batsman and groom him fully.

Umair Masood and Rohail Nazir are the ones to look for.

Yes we all remember how Kami won us the CT in 2013..Oh wait
 
I think people have been questioning his spot in the X1 right now. He has been in pretty poor form recently. He only averages 29.5 in the last one year with a poor SR of 75. He has just scored one 50 against Sri Lanka. This is in spite of Pakistan playing games against SL and WI over the past few months.

It's because after the England series, he demoted himself to 6 or below. Stats speak for themselves. Sarfaraz is world class batting in top 5. Ideally should be coming in at 5.
 
Sarfraz's stats batting at 5 or above speak for him. He's the only batsman capable of playing risk free cricket and rotating the strike, plus don't forget he was the highest run scorer from BOTH teams in the series against England. You only have to see how he played before he demoted himself to 6 after Hafeez's return to answer your question. Yes, his performances have dipped but any slightly knowledgeable fan could see as to WHY. He does not have the game to bat below 5. All in all, a really poor thread.

Yup inclusion of Hafeez has hurt his production the most as he is thrust into a slogging role which is not his game.
 
Yup inclusion of Hafeez has hurt his production the most as he is thrust into a slogging role which is not his game.

Yes, but that won't stop his detractors from demanding his exclusion from the team as they don't like his body language. If only people were better at critical thinking and analysis.
 
Sarfraz in the top 5 bats the way everyone wants Babar to bat (which he doesn't). *mic drop*
 
Actually PCB has wasted Kamran Akmal by playing Sarfaraz Ahmad. At least Kamran was a specialist batsman and aggressive too. Sarfaraz is suitable only for tests.

Now PCB need to find a new wicketkeeper batsman and groom him fully.

Umair Masood and Rohail Nazir are the ones to look for.

We did find one but then the PCB handed him captaincy and failed to groom him for his primary role
 
On the following basis :

1) He is the captain so he is indispensible. Unlike hafeez who can be dropped especially after his bowling ban.

2) He is 8 years younger than Hafeez.

3) He rotates strike which is important at number 4 during middle overs. Unlike hafeez.

4) hafeez is in a poor form and Sarfaraz at 4 will be an upgrade.

5) you might get to play another person in Haris at number 5 who gives you a bowling option too and move Malik down at 6 because Malik has a better hitting technique than most in the team.
 
Sarfraz is an average batsman at any position. The idea that he is a quality top-order batsmen who is playing out of position at the moment is a myth.

He has always been ordinary except for a brief little purple patch during 2014/15, where he scored plenty of runs in all formats.

If he is out of position in ODIs, why is he struggling in Tests? He hasn’t scored a ton since the 2014/15 season, when he scored one against New Zealand.
 
I have been hearing this request a lot on PP that Sarfraz is batting too low in the lineup, he is best suited at no. 4 etc.

However, I disagree.

We have superior batsman in the form of Babar, Hafeez, Haris and Malik who are rightfully playing in the top order (or in the case of Haris will soon be in that role).

Yes we all know Malik's limitations against pace bowling but the fact of the matter is he is a far better player of spin than Sarfraz is - same goes for Hafeez despite the fact that both are struggling right now. To put it another way - putting Sarfraz at no. 4 will make no difference and IMO will be a downgrade.

Hence, Sarfraz will have to make do at no. 6 and simply adapt his game. If the team is collapsing, he will have to consolidate and bat in damage control mode whilst if big hitting is required - he will have to do just that.

Take the example of MS Dhoni. When he started off his career - he batted at no. 3 and came up with a bang with his 148* against Pakistan at Vizag. He continued to bat at no. 3 for two years and had a lot of success there. However, he moved down there order in 2007 when their team management realized Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar etc. and then later even Kohli were simply superior batsman. However, Dhoni did not let that affect him and still produced some amazing knocks at no. 6 and 7. He still averages 50+ at a SR of 90+ in that lower order role. Sarfraz should take inspiration from him...

Dhoni was a good hitter of a cricket ball and coming 4 down suited his game and team requirements however Sarfaraz is not that strong a hitter straight down the ground which is essential for the success at 6 or 7 positions.

However, Sarfaraz when fit is one of the best strike rotators in our team and does have good intent in the middle. Hafeez or Malik if they are to be played in England (Considering their record in England), they can both hit at the end which can be useful and thus Sarfaraz can bat at no 5 which is a very suitable position for him.
 
Kamran Akmal ko le aatay hain OP. Taakay tumhari dua poori ho jaaye.

Kamran Akmal should never play international cricket ever again. Sarfraz might not be as talented as Kami, but he has infinitely more guts than the former. He has done more for Pakistan cricket in his short career so far, than Kami would do in five international careers. He has sacrificed himself for the senior batsmen in this team. Sarfraz's stats at number 4 are there for all to see.

Also people mocking Sarfraz for his fitness, what fitness levels has Kamran Akmal ever achieved? Kamran's fitness became so terrible, even neutrals were concluding his keeping had suffered because he was fat.
 
He's not a low order player but moving him up the order isn't going to change our batting fortunes. He is only capable of batting at just about a run a ball or under. Most top teams number 4 and 5 can rotate strike and his boundaries.
 
Those who are saying sarfaraz is an average player. I mean seriously. He is a wk batsman and has an avg of 40 in test and avges 50 at 90 sr batting the order. Tell me any other player who has this good a record. And please dont tell about dhoni now he is way past his peak and cant even rotate the strike
 
It's because after the England series, he demoted himself to 6 or below. Stats speak for themselves. Sarfaraz is world class batting in top 5. Ideally should be coming in at 5.

I would recon Sarfraz to bat at No.4 and Babar at No.3 or the vice versa.

Any one from Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Haris Sohail, Usman Salahuddin or Saud Shakeel should come at No.5. Who ever its suitable most, its a debate going on between all of us.

While strong power hitters like Husain Talat, Sohaib Maqsood, Fahim Ashraf & Shadab Khan should bat at No.5, 6, 7 and 8 respectively. Following by 3 best fast bowlers later on at No.9, 10, and 11.
 
He's not a low order player but moving him up the order isn't going to change our batting fortunes. He is only capable of batting at just about a run a ball or under. Most top teams number 4 and 5 can rotate strike and his boundaries.

He is the best strike rotator in Pakistan team. But unfortunately batting at No.6.

Batting positions are need to re-set. Team is almost fine except those 2 pathetic seniors. (Hafeez & Malik).
 
Those who are saying sarfaraz is an average player. I mean seriously. He is a wk batsman and has an avg of 40 in test and avges 50 at 90 sr batting the order. Tell me any other player who has this good a record. And please dont tell about dhoni now he is way past his peak and cant even rotate the strike

MY PLAYING 11 FOR ASIA CUP :

01 - Fakhar Zaman
02 - Azhar Ali (Shan as backup)
03 - Babar Azam
04 - Sarfraz Ahmed
05 - Saad Ali
06 - Husain Talat / Sohaib Maqsood
07 - Fahim Ashraf
08 - Shadab Khan
09 - Hasan Ali
10 - Muhammad Amir
11 - Junaid Khan
 
I have been hearing this request a lot on PP that Sarfraz is batting too low in the lineup, he is best suited at no. 4 etc.

However, I disagree.

We have superior batsman in the form of Babar, Hafeez, Haris and Malik who are rightfully playing in the top order (or in the case of Haris will soon be in that role).

Yes we all know Malik's limitations against pace bowling but the fact of the matter is he is a far better player of spin than Sarfraz is - same goes for Hafeez despite the fact that both are struggling right now. To put it another way - putting Sarfraz at no. 4 will make no difference and IMO will be a downgrade.

Hence, Sarfraz will have to make do at no. 6 and simply adapt his game. If the team is collapsing, he will have to consolidate and bat in damage control mode whilst if big hitting is required - he will have to do just that.

Take the example of MS Dhoni. When he started off his career - he batted at no. 3 and came up with a bang with his 148* against Pakistan at Vizag. He continued to bat at no. 3 for two years and had a lot of success there. However, he moved down there order in 2007 when their team management realized Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar etc. and then later even Kohli were simply superior batsman. However, Dhoni did not let that affect him and still produced some amazing knocks at no. 6 and 7. He still averages 50+ at a SR of 90+ in that lower order role. Sarfraz should take inspiration from him...

Hafeez good player of spin+high dot ball %
Sarfraz good player of spin+low dot ball %
 
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Batting positions[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NOs[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Avg[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100s[/td][td]50s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Top five[/td][td]25[/td][td]5[/td][td]962[/td][td]105[/td][td]48.10[/td][td]1078[/td][td]89.24[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 and below[/td][td]37[/td][td]8[/td][td]713[/td][td]64[/td][td]24.59[/td][td]857[/td][td]83.20[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]

Nailed it...Fantastic..
 
hehehe half of those runs are scored against Ireland,WI,Sri Lanka.

Some people are under the illusion that Sarfraz is in a different league to Hafeez and Malik but has been restricted due to his batting position.

That’s nonsense. He’s another bully of spin who doesn’t have the skill or the ability to play quality fast bowling.

People are being fooled by his purple patch in 2014/15, but they will get a reality check once he becomes a regular in the top-order.
 
Some people are under the illusion that Sarfraz is in a different league to Hafeez and Malik but has been restricted due to his batting position.

That’s nonsense. He’s another bully of spin who doesn’t have the skill or the ability to play quality fast bowling.

People are being fooled by his purple patch in 2014/15, but they will get a reality check once he becomes a regular in the top-order.


His average is not a true reflection of his batting. His not outs and minnow bashing IRE and WI boost his stats. I fail to count the amount of times he has been hiding behind the top 5 ever since becoming captain.

Sarfraz is behind the players like Malik and Hafeez when it comes to limited overs which just shows how mediocre player he is. People keep bringing his knock against England in Eng but they froget Malik in the same game played even better knock. Sarfraz can only dream of a knock like Malik played in WI chasing big total last year or Hafeez cameo against India or Aus in Aus. Malik and Hafeez are not that great but they are more useful than Sarfraz.
 
His average is not a true reflection of his batting. His not outs and minnow bashing IRE and WI boost his stats. I fail to count the amount of times he has been hiding behind the top 5 ever since becoming captain.

Sarfraz is behind the players like Malik and Hafeez when it comes to limited overs which just shows how mediocre player he is. People keep bringing his knock against England in Eng but they froget Malik in the same game played even better knock. Sarfraz can only dream of a knock like Malik played in WI chasing big total last year or Hafeez cameo against India or Aus in Aus. Malik and Hafeez are not that great but they are more useful than Sarfraz.
I hope the selectors don't think like this guy does. The likes of Kamran Akmal, Malik and Hafeez will never let us be otherwise.

Sarfraz is a better batsman than Malik, Akmal and Hafeez combined. Not just better than them individually. He has more cojones than these three can ever dream to have.
 
hehehe half of those runs are scored against Ireland,WI,Sri Lanka.

Even if you take out with runs scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies, Ireland and Zimbabwe - Sarfraz still averages 39.21 when batting in the top 5.

57% of his runs batting in the top 5 are against top teams.
 
Even if you take out with runs scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies, Ireland and Zimbabwe - Sarfraz still averages 39.21 when batting in the top 5.

57% of his runs batting in the top 5 are against top teams.
While Malik and Hafeez will have below par averages if you take out Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies and Zimbabwe.

Kamran has a rubbish average against every opposition.
 
Some people are under the illusion that Sarfraz is in a different league to Hafeez and Malik but has been restricted due to his batting position.

That’s nonsense. He’s another bully of spin who doesn’t have the skill or the ability to play quality fast bowling.

People are being fooled by his purple patch in 2014/15, but they will get a reality check once he becomes a regular in the top-order.

Sarfraz is not the best player of pace however he has already surpassed Hafeez and Malik's ODI record in England despite the latter two's 34 years of combined experience.

He averages 62 at SR of 89 in England whereas Hafeez and Malik's record reads 27/69 and 13/64 so its important to look at FACTS instead of shooting from your hip. On his last tour he scored a century at Lord's in overcast conditions, 55 at Southampton and 90 at Cardiff in a chase of 300. Was that all against spin ?

A "spin bully" doesn't average nearly 40 in Tests in Australia, including an unbeaten 59* on a fast Brisbane track when our batsmen were collapsing like tenpins under lights against Starc and Hazlewood.

He also scored three 40s in England facing the Dukes ball including a crucial 45 in the 2nd innings of the Lord's Test after a top order collapse that allowed us to set England a stiff chase; and an important, quick scoring 44 at The Oval (the paciest/bounciest pitch of the series) batting with Younis Khan to obtain a 1st innings lead.

Meanwhile Malik and Hafeez average a mighty 14 and 28 in English Tests. Malik averages 31 in Australian Tests which again, Sarfraz has surpassed. So please remind us why the sainted seniors are in another league to Sarfraz.
 
While Malik and Hafeez will have below par averages if you take out Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies and Zimbabwe.

Kamran has a rubbish average against every opposition.

Let's not forget Sarfraz was the ONLY batsman who could walk away from that debacle against India in the 2016 Asia Cup with a modicum of self-respect. Sarfraz was top scorer on a green top in Dhaka whereas the sainted seniors with their combined 34 years experience, who [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] saab says are "in another league" to Sarfraz, only scraped together a combined total of 8 runs.

And [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] saab's hero Umar Akmal, batted in his favoured position of 5 so let's get that excuse out of the way, fell to the part-time spin of Yuvraj frickin' Singh of all people in that match !

Speaking of Umar Akmal, a few posters who were calling for Umar Akmal to replace Sarfraz as a keeper-batsman may also be interested to note that Sarfraz already has a better average AND strike rate in England and Australia, and a higher average in New Zealand than Junior.
 
Sarfraz's batting, fitness and wicket keeping are no longer acceptable for international cricket. The CT win as skipper is what's keeping him in the side.

Maybe his time in the side is coming up but who is going to lead the team instead? Because the only 2 suggestions I can think of are Amir and Fakhar - note that these by no means to be my recommendations but only options I can see since Malik, Hafeez and Azhar need to be booted out of this team.

Even though he is woeful against spin I wouldn't mind seeing Rizwan keeping wicket since he was excellent behind the stumps in Aus last year. Sarfraz's batting has declined massively and hasn't scored a hundred in tests for a good few years now.
 
Sarfraz is not the best player of pace however he has already surpassed Hafeez and Malik's ODI record in England despite the latter two's 34 years of combined experience.

He averages 62 at SR of 89 in England whereas Hafeez and Malik's record reads 27/69 and 13/64 so its important to look at FACTS instead of shooting from your hip. On his last tour he scored a century at Lord's in overcast conditions, 55 at Southampton and 90 at Cardiff in a chase of 300. Was that all against spin ?

A "spin bully" doesn't average nearly 40 in Tests in Australia, including an unbeaten 59* on a fast Brisbane track when our batsmen were collapsing like tenpins under lights against Starc and Hazlewood.

He also scored three 40s in England facing the Dukes ball including a crucial 45 in the 2nd innings of the Lord's Test after a top order collapse that allowed us to set England a stiff chase; and an important, quick scoring 44 at The Oval (the paciest/bounciest pitch of the series) batting with Younis Khan to obtain a 1st innings lead.

Meanwhile Malik and Hafeez average a mighty 14 and 28 in English Tests. Malik averages 31 in Australian Tests which again, Sarfraz has surpassed. So please remind us why the sainted seniors are in another league to Sarfraz.

But Sarfraz isn't the same player any more and along with the other 3 seniors (hafeez, malik and azhar) he needs to be ditched from this squad if they can find someone else in the team who is leadership material.
 
Even if you take out with runs scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies, Ireland and Zimbabwe - Sarfraz still averages 39.21 when batting in the top 5.

57% of his runs batting in the top 5 are against top teams.

View attachment 78224
Sarfraz batting at position 1 to 5 vs top 5 ranked teams
Research first before posting anything..

Other than his purple patch against England he averages might 15 against India, in the 20s against Sri Lanka, Australia. Against SA he has only had to bat once where he scored 49 courtesy of milking the spinners. He has managed to score only 1.5k runs in his entire career so far including his purple patch which just shows that his numbers are largely exaggerated because of his not outs. his might average of 34 will go down with time as his purple patch has ended long back and he will not be able to hide anymore.
 
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and I didn't even mention his mighty 23 average against NZ in 12 games. He does provide Malik great competition with numbers like that.
 
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Batting positions[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NOs[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Avg[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100s[/td][td]50s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Top five[/td][td]25[/td][td]5[/td][td]962[/td][td]105[/td][td]48.10[/td][td]1078[/td][td]89.24[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 and below[/td][td]37[/td][td]8[/td][td]713[/td][td]64[/td][td]24.59[/td][td]857[/td][td]83.20[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]
This. End of thread.
 
Simple reason is he is the Captain and probably only one PCB trusts - so he has to be carried & No. 4 (actually 5), is probably the best damage control - he'll cost least there.

Pro & anti Sarfraz group are creating epic on his batting, when first question should be on what basis he is keeping for the team HEAVILY dependent on their bowlers even just to make a decent contest? If he is the best WK in PAK, then God bless PAK cricket - with that blessing, Sarfu can even open as well.
 
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Batting positions[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NOs[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Avg[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100s[/td][td]50s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Top five[/td][td]25[/td][td]5[/td][td]962[/td][td]105[/td][td]48.10[/td][td]1078[/td][td]89.24[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 and below[/td][td]37[/td][td]8[/td][td]713[/td][td]64[/td][td]24.59[/td][td]857[/td][td]83.20[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]

This right here shows you why. He was brilliant in the England series and had a lot of potential as a top 4 batsman. By now the core of our team should have been formed around Babar at 3 and Sarfraz at 4. Haris I believe would have and will still make a very good opening batsman.

But looking at his fitness and recent performances I don't have any confidence in him succeeding at any number. Letting his fitness deteriorate as soon as his spot became assured just shows a terrible attitude and a mentality that should be kept far far away from any sort of professional environment let alone the national cricket team. I have supported him for a long while in Tests and ODIs but I cannot back him unless he shows a better attitude.
 
hehehe half of those runs are scored against Ireland,WI,Sri Lanka.

100 and a 90 against england in england.. y do u not add that too...1 run short of fifty against SA as well..

His SR and avg was better for a no.4... would like to know the stats of MISBAH , UMAR AKMAL and HAFEEZ who were the other no.4s and how many centuries and fifties were made in eng, sa, aus and nzl

maqsood was another competitor but shoved to no.7 from no.3 in batting position...still no significant scores to mention in overseas tours.
 
Isn't that close to Kamran Akmal's overall average in ODIs though? :P
lol [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] cannot answer that.

To be honest I feel bad for [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION]. Lot of time his arguments against Sarfraz are not justified. And he may get into trouble on judgement day because of these unjustified arguments. What if God take some good deeds of [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] and give them to Sarfraz for punishment of these unjustified arguments on judgement day? [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] should really think about it. Bash Sarfraz on bad things but acknowledge him on good things too. Dont give chance to Sarfraz take away your good deeds.
 
lol [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] cannot answer that.

To be honest I feel bad for [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION]. Lot of time his arguments against Sarfraz are not justified. And he may get into trouble on judgement day because of these unjustified arguments. What if God take some good deeds of [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] and give them to Sarfraz for punishment of these unjustified arguments on judgement day? [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] should really think about it. Bash Sarfraz on bad things but acknowledge him on good things too. Dont give chance to Sarfraz take away your good deeds.

hahahahah epic
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

I did not say that Hafeez and Malik are in another league to Sarfraz. In your haste to defend the specialist captain, you failed to comprehend my post properly. This is what I wrote:

Some people are under the illusion that Sarfraz is in a different league to Hafeez and Malik but has been restricted due to his batting position.

That’s nonsense. He’s another bully of spin who doesn’t have the skill or the ability to play quality fast bowling.

People are being fooled by his purple patch in 2014/15, but they will get a reality check once he becomes a regular in the top-order.

Where did I mention that Hafeez and Malik are much better than Sarfraz? Let me rephrase - all three of them are in the same mould. Good against spin, weak against pace. Other than a few cameos, they do not have any substantial knocks against pace-heavy teams.

The notion that Sarfraz is a much better player than Malik and Hafeez but has been restricted because of his batting position is not true. There isn't much to separate between the three.

Sarfraz is weak against pace and the fact that you had to point out a few baby scores to prove that he isn't proves the point. He couldn't score a single half-century in England, and he repeatedly threw his wicket away in stupid fashion by playing loose shots.

His low scores in that series was one of the major reasons why we didn't win the series in the first place. He got starts almost every time but never managed to convert.

He doesn't have shots against pace and clearly struggles against genuine fast bowling, and we have seen that in this NZ series as well.

Also, you have conveniently ignored how awful he was in South Africa in 2013. He was as bad as Hafeez, and the excuse that it was his first overseas tour doesn't stick.

Take him to South Africa today, and he will look like a tail-ender against Rabada, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. He will not score a single hundred, just like he couldn't in England and Australia.

Simply changing his batting position is not going to improve his limited batting capabilities. He plays most of his shots of the front foot and tries to sweep everything.

In addition, he has no power game, and will prove to be a liability at the death overs irrespective of whether he is batting at 4,5,6 or 7.

His few matches in the top-order has fooled people into thinking that he is some quality batsmen who is sacrificing himself for the team's cause. Apart from his purple patch in 2014-15, he has been an ordinary player throughout his career. He had a good series in England last year, but all of our batsmen including Hafeez and Malik have played good innings in isolation.

Do you honestly see Sarfraz as someone who can consistently score runs at a good SR against pace-heavy teams? You might argue that he is going to be relatively better than Hafeez and Malik, which may or may not be true, but it doesn't make a difference because he is still nowhere near the level we are looking for.

Which quality team does he get into as a Limited Overs batsman? The answer is none, and his keeping is marginally better than Kamran.

Overall, a thoroughly mediocre cricketer who was consistent for a couple of years and is now riding on the Champions Trophy success where his contribution as a player was weak.
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

I did not say that Hafeez and Malik are in another league to Sarfraz. In your haste to defend the specialist captain, you failed to comprehend my post properly. This is what I wrote:



Where did I mention that Hafeez and Malik are much better than Sarfraz? Let me rephrase - all three of them are in the same mould. Good against spin, weak against pace. Other than a few cameos, they do not have any substantial knocks against pace-heavy teams.

The notion that Sarfraz is a much better player than Malik and Hafeez but has been restricted because of his batting position is not true. There isn't much to separate between the three.

Sarfraz is weak against pace and the fact that you had to point out a few baby scores to prove that he isn't proves the point. He couldn't score a single half-century in England, and he repeatedly threw his wicket away in stupid fashion by playing loose shots.

His low scores in that series was one of the major reasons why we didn't win the series in the first place. He got starts almost every time but never managed to convert.

He doesn't have shots against pace and clearly struggles against genuine fast bowling, and we have seen that in this NZ series as well.

Also, you have conveniently ignored how awful he was in South Africa in 2013. He was as bad as Hafeez, and the excuse that it was his first overseas tour doesn't stick.

Take him to South Africa today, and he will look like a tail-ender against Rabada, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. He will not score a single hundred, just like he couldn't in England and Australia.

Simply changing his batting position is not going to improve his limited batting capabilities. He plays most of his shots of the front foot and tries to sweep everything.

In addition, he has no power game, and will prove to be a liability at the death overs irrespective of whether he is batting at 4,5,6 or 7.

His few matches in the top-order has fooled people into thinking that he is some quality batsmen who is sacrificing himself for the team's cause. Apart from his purple patch in 2014-15, he has been an ordinary player throughout his career. He had a good series in England last year, but all of our batsmen including Hafeez and Malik have played good innings in isolation.

Do you honestly see Sarfraz as someone who can consistently score runs at a good SR against pace-heavy teams? You might argue that he is going to be relatively better than Hafeez and Malik, which may or may not be true, but it doesn't make a difference because he is still nowhere near the level we are looking for.

Which quality team does he get into as a Limited Overs batsman? The answer is none, and his keeping is marginally better than Kamran.

Overall, a thoroughly mediocre cricketer who was consistent for a couple of years and is now riding on the Champions Trophy success where his contribution as a player was weak.

Good ODI series in England*
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] agreed.Sarfaraz can,t score against a good pace attack.He is a bit innovative and will do it in patches but not on regular basis .thats y its important for him to bat at 4 in order to face spin.Thats only thing which can be done.He should have not been handed over captaincy.That blunder is going to cost us more matches.
 
He should bat in place of Malik with Hussain Talat replacing Malik for the next series.Sarfraz may not be the best batsman in the team but he is in it because he is the best choice for captain.His wicketkeeping is not that flash either
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] agreed.Sarfaraz can,t score against a good pace attack.He is a bit innovative and will do it in patches but not on regular basis .thats y its important for him to bat at 4 in order to face spin.Thats only thing which can be done.He should have not been handed over captaincy.That blunder is going to cost us more matches.

People will never be happy.. this nation really deserve azhar ali as captain.. No captain has 100% of captaincy record and its easy to talk but difficult when you find yourself in practical situations..
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] agreed.Sarfaraz can,t score against a good pace attack.He is a bit innovative and will do it in patches but not on regular basis .thats y its important for him to bat at 4 in order to face spin.Thats only thing which can be done.He should have not been handed over captaincy.That blunder is going to cost us more matches.

One bad series and all guns are loaded at babar, sarfraz etc.. do some research and see what happened when india last toured newzealand.. subcontinent teams usually struggle outside home and to make situation more worse for us, we are carrying the passengers like azhar, hafeez and malik in our team.. throw them out and you will see improvement in pak team.. middle order is the backbone of a team and unfortuantely is the most weakest suit of our team.. even great captains like imran khan, ms dhoni and steve waugh would n't be able to win games with players like these..
put the blame where its due, not on everyone.. i dont think its sarfi's fault that he find himself in situation when team is 5 down for 20 runs..
 
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People will never be happy.. this nation really deserve azhar ali as captain.. No captain has 100% of captaincy record and its easy to talk but difficult when you find yourself in practical situations..

I mean the work load is too much for his level of fitness,He can be captain in one format maximum.plus its not a secret that he is weak against pace but after all its his fault that he has given himself a batting position where he is bound to fail.
 
The notion that Sarfraz is a much better player than Malik and Hafeez but has been restricted because of his batting position is not true. There isn't much to separate between the three.
There's plenty to separate them already. Sarfraz had a better tour of England on his first trip than Malik and Hafeez had in their 19 and 15 years of international cricket. He has a superior record in ICC tournaments and that's as a wicketkeeper batsman not as two men pretending to be specialist batsmen at this stage of their careers.

Sarfraz is weak against pace and the fact that you had to point out a few baby scores to prove that he isn't proves the point. He couldn't score a single half-century in England, and he repeatedly threw his wicket away in stupid fashion by playing loose shots.

His low scores in that series was one of the major reasons why we didn't win the series in the first place. He got starts almost every time but never managed to convert.
All of the innings mentioned were vital in the context of the match. His job is to play positive counterattacking innings to complement the slower paced batsmen above him, not construct long innings which is difficult given our weak tail over the years with Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan and Zulfiqar Babar for "support".

Any objective observer saw that we didn't win in England because Younis Khan couldn't find his form for three Tests; a collapse at Edgbaston from 257-2 in our 1st innings (where Sarfraz was unbeaten coincidentally); and our toothless bowling in England's 2nd innings. Nobody says Sarfraz was one of the major reasons why we didn't win except biased and agenda-driven posters like yourself, this is the first time I'm reading such criticism. Infact if anything, Sarfraz's stock was significantly raised after the England tour amongst all their pundits.

In our overseas Tests of 2016/17 in England, Australia, New Zealand and West Indies - he was our fourth best batsman yet you want him kicked out for who exactly ? Mohammad Rizwan who looks a club level batsman ? Umar and Kamran Akmal who have fitness issues themselves and couldn't last 5 days of a Test match ?

He doesn't have shots against pace and clearly struggles against genuine fast bowling, and we have seen that in this NZ series as well.
I've already said he's not the best against pace but you seem to watch matches in isolation and devoid of context. In every match he's coming out to a crisis - in the last match he came out at 13-4 after 12 overs. The top and middle order are consuming so many dots that Sarfraz is under pressure to move the score along quickly and is losing his wicket. In any event, many batsmen would be troubled by a 150+kph pacer like Lockie Ferguson - that's the point of having a bowler like that in your team.

Also, you have conveniently ignored how awful he was in South Africa in 2013. He was as bad as Hafeez, and the excuse that it was his first overseas tour doesn't stick.
Yes, and he worked hard in domestic cricket and came back a better player - even you admit was a pivotal part to our rise to #1 in the Test rankings between 2014-16.

Simply changing his batting position is not going to improve his limited batting capabilities.
Is that why he averages 48 in the top 5 and half that batting below 5 ? Is that why he averages 60 at a SR of 93 batting at 5 ?

In addition, he has no power game, and will prove to be a liability at the death overs irrespective of whether he is batting at 4,5,6 or 7.
That's why he should be complemented with two explosive openers and powerhitters between 6-9 who can play that role. His role should be to rotate strike through the middle overs and construct partnerships. Instead he's accommodating the sainted seniors Malik (who you are an ardent supporter of despite his mighty average in NZ of 11 yet have uttered not a single word of criticism) and Hafeez by pushing himself down to 6.

Which quality team does he get into as a Limited Overs batsman? The answer is none, and his keeping is marginally better than Kamran.
He's not a specialist batsman but in any case I've never compared him to his counterparts such as de Kock or Buttler. But with an ODI average of 38 and SR of 87 since the 2015 WC he MORE than holds his own as a wicketkeeper batsman by Pakistani standards and remains the best option we have.
 
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Sarfraz has the highest upside out of all the seniors. Hafeez old and bad form, nearing his end. Malik is probably the worst out of them against pace. Azhar doesnt even really have an ODI game, no shots and cant accelerate.

Sarfraz needs to lose weight its hampering is ability to pick up singles. And stop throwing his wicket. He’s a better LOI player than his recent form suggests IMO.

Your best bats should be batting at the top. I dont think Sarfraz is that anymore. He either bats 5 or 7 IMO now.

Id play something in future of:
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Haris
4. Saad Ali
5. Sarfraz
6. Malik
7. Talat
8. Shadab
9. Amir
10. Hasan
11. Junaid/Shinwari
 
The lovers of Akmal brothers, Hafeez, Malik, Misbah, Butt, Asif, Wahab.... should open their eyes for the sake of Pakistan Cricket
 
Champions trophy quater final
Odi in England
Asia cup final
World cup game against Ireland

Even Hasan Ali can score a hundred against Ireland.

He was dropped thrice by Sri Lankan fielders in CT quarter final, including one dolly by Parera.
 
Lol. Its not that he deserves to bat at 4 but its the fact that it is his best position. He can't bat in the top 3 because he is not the best player of pace bowling, at the same time he does not have the skills to bat below 5 as he can not score quickly enough. The only thing which he is good at is rotating the strike and that too only against the spin. He plays spin really well but its a limited skill set. He hasn't done anything major of note to bat at 4 but its where he does least harm to the team.
 
Even Hasan Ali can score a hundred against Ireland.

He was dropped thrice by Sri Lankan fielders in CT quarter final, including one dolly by Parera.

Hasan Ali hasn't scored a single century in domestic cricket so I doubt that.

Three ATG batsmen and the two sainted seniors Hafeez and Malik failed against Ireland in the 2007 WC despite being at their peak so we Pakistanis have no right to be dismissive of them given that past humiliation.

If the Sri Lankan team management were stupid enough to pick an absolute liability like Tissara Perera then that's their fault. There are plenty of examples of lucky breaks for tournament winners - SAF's run out in the 1999 Edgbaston SF vs Australia, Misbah's scoop in 2007, etc but I don't see Australians or Indians downplaying their successes because of it. That's sport.
 
Lol. Its not that he deserves to bat at 4 but its the fact that it is his best position. He can't bat in the top 3 because he is not the best player of pace bowling, at the same time he does not have the skills to bat below 5 as he can not score quickly enough. The only thing which he is good at is rotating the strike and that too only against the spin. He plays spin really well but its a limited skill set. He hasn't done anything major of note to bat at 4 but its where he does least harm to the team.

Bro, you change part of your post in past tense - you have my vote, money, house ..........

He is a tail-ender now, who should bat at 9 in between Hasan & Amir in ODI and preferably not at all in T20, at least not before Amir. Teams do analyze players lot these days - what you are telling about spinners, think again - Astle & Santner got him twice (actually thrice, I would have given that LBW) in no time, and these are basically part-timers in International standard.

I don't know who are hurt here, but can't help much - they say, truth hurts.
 
Even Hasan Ali can score a hundred against Ireland.

He was dropped thrice by Sri Lankan fielders in CT quarter final, including one dolly by Parera.

Suprised you count drop catches when your advcoating for Kamran akmal.
Let's wait for Hasan Ali to score his first century in kind of cricket before expecting him to knock 1 off in a crunch Wc match.
 
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Batting positions[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NOs[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Avg[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100s[/td][td]50s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Top five[/td][td]25[/td][td]5[/td][td]962[/td][td]105[/td][td]48.10[/td][td]1078[/td][td]89.24[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 and below[/td][td]37[/td][td]8[/td][td]713[/td][td]64[/td][td]24.59[/td][td]857[/td][td]83.20[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]

What are the averages and SR's of our middle order during the same time period / opposition as Sarfraz played in the top 5?
 
What are the averages and SR's of our middle order during the same time period / opposition as Sarfraz played in the top 5?

I think I would have to go through the scorecards individually to determine that. Not sure if it's worth the time!

I am not a big fan of Sarfaraz's batting in general but just thought I'd throw these stats in here.

There's a decent sample size for both viewpoints. The fact of the matter is that Sarfaraz has never looked comfortable in the lower-order against ANY opposition.

Anyway. There are two ways to utilise him in the ODI team.

Either play him at 4-5 and he can perform moderately and give a decent output. Minimise the downside. Even though there are better, more dynamic players available who can bat at these spots.

Or play him at 7 or even 8 and have no expectations whatsoever. But that is only possible in a stronger batting lineup. When the batting is continually failing then Sarfaraz's failures stand out more.

If we're going to persist with NOT inducting some young blood in the middle-order then I wouldn't mind seeing Sarfaraz bat at 4/5 in place of Hafeez/Malik.

If we're going to actually start planning for the future and start including the likes of Haris and Talat in the side then Sarfaraz can bat at at 7/8/9 with minimum expectations. Both Shadab and Faheem will contribute more in the lower-order than Sarfaraz.
 
Even Hasan Ali can score a hundred against Ireland.

He was dropped thrice by Sri Lankan fielders in CT quarter final, including one dolly by Parera.

He was only dropped twice and second one was a very difficult chance.
 
Hasan Ali hasn't scored a single century in domestic cricket so I doubt that.

Three ATG batsmen and the two sainted seniors Hafeez and Malik failed against Ireland in the 2007 WC despite being at their peak so we Pakistanis have no right to be dismissive of them given that past humiliation.

If the Sri Lankan team management were stupid enough to pick an absolute liability like Tissara Perera then that's their fault. There are plenty of examples of lucky breaks for tournament winners - SAF's run out in the 1999 Edgbaston SF vs Australia, Misbah's scoop in 2007, etc but I don't see Australians or Indians downplaying their successes because of it. That's sport.

Sarfaraz Ahmad is a garbage wicketkeeper batsman, can't hit a boundary in slog overs. Till now Kamran Akmal would have scored 8000 runs with ease.
 
Suprised you count drop catches when your advcoating for Kamran akmal.
Let's wait for Hasan Ali to score his first century in kind of cricket before expecting him to knock 1 off in a crunch Wc match.

Kamran Akmal is a specialist batsman, can play as a batsman also.

Both are poor when it comes to their glove work.
 
Sarfraz has the highest upside out of all the seniors. Hafeez old and bad form, nearing his end. Malik is probably the worst out of them against pace. Azhar doesnt even really have an ODI game, no shots and cant accelerate.

Sarfraz needs to lose weight its hampering is ability to pick up singles. And stop throwing his wicket. He’s a better LOI player than his recent form suggests IMO.

Your best bats should be batting at the top. I dont think Sarfraz is that anymore. He either bats 5 or 7 IMO now.

Id play something in future of:
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Haris
4. Saad Ali
5. Sarfraz
6. Malik
7. Talat
8. Shadab
9. Amir
10. Hasan
11. Junaid/Shinwari

Replace Mallik with Umar Amin and play Sarfaraz as an opener otherwise no place for him. This will also give depth to our batting lineup.
 
There's plenty to separate them already. Sarfraz had a better tour of England on his first trip than Malik and Hafeez had in their 19 and 15 years of international cricket. He has a superior record in ICC tournaments and that's as a wicketkeeper batsman not as two men pretending to be specialist batsmen at this stage of their careers.

Yes, a 'superior' record in ICC tournaments based on a hundred against an ATG attack of Ireland and a 49 against South Africa where more 80% of runs came against the spinners and the pies of de Villiers. It can be argued that Hafeez's all-round performance against the WI in the 2011 QF was superior, and surely, Malik's hundred against India in the 2009 Champions Trophy was better.

He could have made a statement in the Champions Trophy, but he was a bundle of nerves against Sri Lanka and was helped across the finish line by their fielders and Amir. In the final, he didn't back himself to make a bigger impact than Imad, who could only manage 2 boundaries in 21 deliveries, and cost Pakistan 10-15 runs.

Sarfraz had an average series in England where he could not cross a 50 in 7 innings. You can spin it any way you want, but he underperformed.

As I said, the difference between the three is marginal. You can make a case for any of them being better than the other two, but they are all at the same level. The fact that Sarfraz is a not a specialist batsman does not give him any leeway, when he is no Allan Knott or Jeff Dujon with the gloves. If he was, his below par batting would have been excused - however, he is a rubbish WK, and about 10 kilos overweight.

All of the innings mentioned were vital in the context of the match. His job is to play positive counterattacking innings to complement the slower paced batsmen above him, not construct long innings which is difficult given our weak tail over the years with Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan and Zulfiqar Babar for "support".

Any objective observer saw that we didn't win in England because Younis Khan couldn't find his form for three Tests; a collapse at Edgbaston from 257-2 in our 1st innings (where Sarfraz was unbeaten coincidentally); and our toothless bowling in England's 2nd innings. Nobody says Sarfraz was one of the major reasons why we didn't win except biased and agenda-driven posters like yourself, this is the first time I'm reading such criticism. Infact if anything, Sarfraz's stock was significantly raised after the England tour amongst all their pundits.
Under no 'context' is a batsman scoring 40s and throwing it away at crucial junctions appreciable. Would Sarfraz have harmed the team's chances by playing a longer innings and scoring more runs? Did he fail to convert his starts into big innings because it was not his job and because our tail was weak? Or did he fail to convert his starts because he wasn't good enough?

Let's analyze his performance in the England Test series, innings by innings:

First Test, first innings:

Sarfraz throws his wicket away for a paltry 25, leaving Pakistan at 310/7 (not exactly a great first innings score on a flat pitch) with Misbah on the other end. A poor innings.

First Test, second innings:

Scored an important 45, failed to protect the tail and got out before them, but it was an important effort. He also good a decent ball to get dismissed on.

Second Test, first innings:

Swung the bat like a mad man for 18 deliveries, getting out for 26 with Pakistan on the ropes. Misbah was on the other end, and Pakistan were in dire need of a big partnership. He didn't play the situation at all - it was an innings right up Afridi street.

Second Test, second innings:

Match was well and truly over by the time he arrived at the crease, but he got dismissed for 7.

Third Test, first innings:

A good, patient 46*. Helped us extend our lead.

Third Test, second innings:

Choked under pressure like the other batsmen. A 5 ball duck, perished to an out-swinger by playing away from his body.

Fourth Test, first innings:

Threw his wicket away yet again after scoring 44 runs. Pakistan had a good total on the board already, but Sarfraz failed to shield the tail and extend it further.

Fourth Test, second innings:

DNB

To summarize: he got starts in almost every innings, but he played poorly in the two pivotal innings that cost us the two defeats: 1st innings at Old Trafford, and 2nd innings at Edgbaston. It is ironic that you are accusing me of being an agenda-driven poster, when you are bending backwards to make Sarfraz's performance in the England Test series look good. It was not bad and it was not great - he was strictly average, and he failed in two key innings.

He did not enhance his reputation after the Test series; he enhanced his reputation after the ODI series. If Umar, Malik or Maqsood would have thrown their wickets away they way he did at Old Trafford and Edgbaston, you would have lashed out at their lack of temperament.
In our overseas Tests of 2016/17 in England, Australia, New Zealand and West Indies - he was our fourth best batsman yet you want him kicked out for who exactly ? Mohammad Rizwan who looks a club level batsman ? Umar and Kamran Akmal who have fitness issues themselves and couldn't last 5 days of a Test match ?

Who said that I want him to be kicked out? I have repeatedly said that it is a shame that he is our best option at the moment. You know you are down to bare bones when Sarfraz is the best WK batsman in the country, but it is what it is. He is not droppable at the moment, but that does not make him immune to criticism.
I've already said he's not the best against pace but you seem to watch matches in isolation and devoid of context.

There is no context to his struggles against pace other than his inability. His technique is shoddy, and he doesn't have the reflexes to play to genuine fast bowling.

In every match he's coming out to a crisis - in the last match he came out at 13-4 after 12 overs. The top and middle order are consuming so many dots that Sarfraz is under pressure to move the score along quickly and is losing his wicket. In any event, many batsmen would be troubled by a 150+kph pacer like Lockie Ferguson - that's the point of having a bowler like that in your team.

This sounds like a generic defense of Umar Akmal by an Umar Akmal fan. Who is the agenda-driven poster here? Sarfraz has been entirely responsible for his own dismissals, has nothing to do with his teammates.

Yes, and he worked hard in domestic cricket and came back a better player - even you admit was a pivotal part to our rise to #1 in the Test rankings between 2014-16.

Indeed he was. He got reselected when he was in his purple patch, and he scored three hundreds in three successive Test series. However, his performance has been nothing special since 2015. He did well in ODIs in 2016, but he has been mediocre for a while now.
Is that why he averages 48 in the top 5 and half that batting below 5 ? Is that why he averages 60 at a SR of 93 batting at 5 ?

Those averages are based on some minnow bashing (the common criticism against Malik and Hafeez), an innings against Australia in the UAE, and a wonderful series in England. He should not have been demoted after the England series, but he was clearly punching above his weight in that series. He was batting like a world class batsman which he is not. Even Kamran had a great series in England in 2010 as an opener, but that doesn't make him great.

Sarfraz's opening career ended when he got bounced out by Bangladesh on the slow Bangladeshi pitches after the World Cup, and he will not perform miracles at number 4/5 against pace-heavy teams. The problems with his batting run deeper than his batting position; he has essentially the same strengths and weaknesses as the likes of Hafeez and Malik.
That's why he should be complemented with two explosive openers and powerhitters between 6-9 who can play that role. His role should be to rotate strike through the middle overs and construct partnerships. Instead he's accommodating the sainted seniors Malik (who you are an ardent supporter of despite his mighty average in NZ of 11 yet have uttered not a single word of criticism) and Hafeez by pushing himself down to 6.

You can swap Sarfraz with Malik and Hafeez. The end result is not going to be much different. Sarfraz is not going to perform wonders at number 4/5 against explosive fast bowlers.

He's not a specialist batsman but in any case I've never compared him to his counterparts such as de Kock or Buttler. But with an ODI average of 38 and SR of 87 since the 2015 WC he MORE than holds his own as a wicketkeeper batsman by Pakistani standards and remains the best option we have.

Again, no one is suggesting that he should be dropped. It is our misfortune that we do not have a better WK batsman than him at the moment. Moreover, you have not compared him to his compatriots because it is embarrassing. Apart from Australia, all the big teams have WK batsmen in LOIs who wipe the floor with Sarfraz.

Just because we don't have a better option does not mean that we shouldn't pinpoint his mediocrity. A poor, unfit keeper and an average batsman. In addition, the worst player in the world to captain a team in all formats (excluding minnows and associates).

Anyhow, this debate is drawing out now and before we run in circles, we can agree on the fact that A) Sarfraz needs to improve his performance and his fitness and B) Hafeez needs to be phased out.

What we don't agree on is that Sarfraz will magically transform into a top batsman by changing his position. He has his shortcomings which will be exposed by quality pace attacks irrespective of where he bats. That is true for Malik and Hafeez as well, and that is why they are all pretty much at the same level, good or bad.
 
Yes, a 'superior' record in ICC tournaments based on a hundred against an ATG attack of Ireland and a 49 against South Africa where more 80% of runs came against the spinners and the pies of de Villiers. It can be argued that Hafeez's all-round performance against the WI in the 2011 QF was superior, and surely, Malik's hundred against India in the 2009 Champions Trophy was better.

He could have made a statement in the Champions Trophy, but he was a bundle of nerves against Sri Lanka and was helped across the finish line by their fielders and Amir. In the final, he didn't back himself to make a bigger impact than Imad, who could only manage 2 boundaries in 21 deliveries, and cost Pakistan 10-15 runs.

Sarfraz had an average series in England where he could not cross a 50 in 7 innings. You can spin it any way you want, but he underperformed.

As I said, the difference between the three is marginal. You can make a case for any of them being better than the other two, but they are all at the same level. The fact that Sarfraz is a not a specialist batsman does not give him any leeway, when he is no Allan Knott or Jeff Dujon with the gloves. If he was, his below par batting would have been excused - however, he is a rubbish WK, and about 10 kilos overweight.

Under no 'context' is a batsman scoring 40s and throwing it away at crucial junctions appreciable. Would Sarfraz have harmed the team's chances by playing a longer innings and scoring more runs? Did he fail to convert his starts into big innings because it was not his job and because our tail was weak? Or did he fail to convert his starts because he wasn't good enough?

Let's analyze his performance in the England Test series, innings by innings:

First Test, first innings:

Sarfraz throws his wicket away for a paltry 25, leaving Pakistan at 310/7 (not exactly a great first innings score on a flat pitch) with Misbah on the other end. A poor innings.

First Test, second innings:

Scored an important 45, failed to protect the tail and got out before them, but it was an important effort. He also good a decent ball to get dismissed on.

Second Test, first innings:

Swung the bat like a mad man for 18 deliveries, getting out for 26 with Pakistan on the ropes. Misbah was on the other end, and Pakistan were in dire need of a big partnership. He didn't play the situation at all - it was an innings right up Afridi street.

Second Test, second innings:

Match was well and truly over by the time he arrived at the crease, but he got dismissed for 7.

Third Test, first innings:

A good, patient 46*. Helped us extend our lead.

Third Test, second innings:

Choked under pressure like the other batsmen. A 5 ball duck, perished to an out-swinger by playing away from his body.

Fourth Test, first innings:

Threw his wicket away yet again after scoring 44 runs. Pakistan had a good total on the board already, but Sarfraz failed to shield the tail and extend it further.

Fourth Test, second innings:

DNB

To summarize: he got starts in almost every innings, but he played poorly in the two pivotal innings that cost us the two defeats: 1st innings at Old Trafford, and 2nd innings at Edgbaston. It is ironic that you are accusing me of being an agenda-driven poster, when you are bending backwards to make Sarfraz's performance in the England Test series look good. It was not bad and it was not great - he was strictly average, and he failed in two key innings.

He did not enhance his reputation after the Test series; he enhanced his reputation after the ODI series. If Umar, Malik or Maqsood would have thrown their wickets away they way he did at Old Trafford and Edgbaston, you would have lashed out at their lack of temperament.


Who said that I want him to be kicked out? I have repeatedly said that it is a shame that he is our best option at the moment. You know you are down to bare bones when Sarfraz is the best WK batsman in the country, but it is what it is. He is not droppable at the moment, but that does not make him immune to criticism.


There is no context to his struggles against pace other than his inability. His technique is shoddy, and he doesn't have the reflexes to play to genuine fast bowling.



This sounds like a generic defense of Umar Akmal by an Umar Akmal fan. Who is the agenda-driven poster here? Sarfraz has been entirely responsible for his own dismissals, has nothing to do with his teammates.



Indeed he was. He got reselected when he was in his purple patch, and he scored three hundreds in three successive Test series. However, his performance has been nothing special since 2015. He did well in ODIs in 2016, but he has been mediocre for a while now.


Those averages are based on some minnow bashing (the common criticism against Malik and Hafeez), an innings against Australia in the UAE, and a wonderful series in England. He should not have been demoted after the England series, but he was clearly punching above his weight in that series. He was batting like a world class batsman which he is not. Even Kamran had a great series in England in 2010 as an opener, but that doesn't make him great.

Sarfraz's opening career ended when he got bounced out by Bangladesh on the slow Bangladeshi pitches after the World Cup, and he will not perform miracles at number 4/5 against pace-heavy teams. The problems with his batting run deeper than his batting position; he has essentially the same strengths and weaknesses as the likes of Hafeez and Malik.


You can swap Sarfraz with Malik and Hafeez. The end result is not going to be much different. Sarfraz is not going to perform wonders at number 4/5 against explosive fast bowlers.



Again, no one is suggesting that he should be dropped. It is our misfortune that we do not have a better WK batsman than him at the moment. Moreover, you have not compared him to his compatriots because it is embarrassing. Apart from Australia, all the big teams have WK batsmen in LOIs who wipe the floor with Sarfraz.

Just because we don't have a better option does not mean that we shouldn't pinpoint his mediocrity. A poor, unfit keeper and an average batsman. In addition, the worst player in the world to captain a team in all formats (excluding minnows and associates).

Anyhow, this debate is drawing out now and before we run in circles, we can agree on the fact that A) Sarfraz needs to improve his performance and his fitness and B) Hafeez needs to be phased out.

What we don't agree on is that Sarfraz will magically transform into a top batsman by changing his position. He has his shortcomings which will be exposed by quality pace attacks irrespective of where he bats. That is true for Malik and Hafeez as well, and that is why they are all pretty much at the same level, good or bad.

It's amazing how quickly some Pakistani fans get personal with posters who want their captain to perform and lead the team from the front. To be a captain is a very special thing. Look at Kohli, Faf,Williampson, Smith. Every captain these days is inspiration for his team mates with his performance. And we on the other hand have a captain who doesn't want to lead from the front by hiding behind the experience of Malik and Hafeez. And there is zero inspiration for the players when they see their captain is nothing but acting like a joker at the screen by constant yelling.
 
Surely Sarfaraz would be better suited to batting at No.5. He's a good rotater of the ball and decent hitter. He's not a finisher. I think quite few ppers believe that he's better at No.5
 
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