On what basis does Sarfaraz Ahmed deserve to bat at #4 in ODIs?

[MRSN]

100 and a 90 against england in england.. y do u not add that too...1 run short of fifty against SA as well..

His SR and avg was better for a no.4... would like to know the stats of MISBAH , UMAR AKMAL and HAFEEZ who were the other no.4s and how many centuries and fifties were made in eng, sa, aus and nzl

maqsood was another competitor but shoved to no.7 from no.3 in batting position...still no significant scores to mention in overseas tours.

The list of excuses for lack of performance from Sarfraz keeps increasing. lol this batting at no.4 is the latest. Batting position is no excuse especially when you are captain. Who is stopping him coming at 3 and leading the team from the front? No one. He is just not capable of handling the new ball and too limited to bat in the last overs. The best position for him would be when the ball is very old, field is spread and spinners are bowling from the both end. )


as I said apart from his purple patch against England he has been mediocre against all top teams. Against SA he has only played one innings where he bashed spinners for majority of his runs.

Truth is Sarfraz is nothing special compare to Malik and Hafeez. It's the flaw of our system where we have to carry a wicket keeper who is as unfit as him and who is captain of our team with zero performance.

Misbah, Umar and Hafeez with all their problems are much more valuable players than Sarfraz. Hafeez when he could bowl was the most vital player Pakistan had in the team. Misbah despite being slow and limited he was at the crease most part of the game and Umar Akmal had best career by any Pakistani at no.6 scoring at an average of 37 @ 88 strike rate. Ever since he has gone off the scene Pakistan has been struggling with their lower order batting.

 

[Rayyman]

The batting order is not terrible.

Prof, Don and Saifi all have their ideal scenarios to come in.

Hafeez would be ideal coming in overs 15-25, Malik in 20-30, and Sarfraz 25-35. Problem is, they are coming in too early. But they should be able to adapt. I'm afraid at 35+, it's too late for Hafeez and Malik to change their games. Sarfraz should come in anywhere from overs 15-35. Not before, not after.

If top 3 had been doing their jobs correctly we wouldn't be having this problem. Really, it shows a weakness in our mediocre batting that needs new blood instead of the three oldies (AA, MH and SM).

 

[ask_analyse_act]

The list of excuses for lack of performance from Sarfraz keeps increasing. lol this batting at no.4 is the latest. Batting position is no excuse especially when you are captain. Who is stopping him coming at 3 and leading the team from the front? No one. He is just not capable of handling the new ball and too limited to bat in the last overs. The best position for him would be when the ball is very old, field is spread and spinners are bowling from the both end. )


as I said apart from his purple patch against England he has been mediocre against all top teams. Against SA he has only played one innings where he bashed spinners for majority of his runs.

Truth is Sarfraz is nothing special compare to Malik and Hafeez. It's the flaw of our system where we have to carry a wicket keeper who is as unfit as him and who is captain of our team with zero performance.

Misbah, Umar and Hafeez with all their problems are much more valuable players than Sarfraz. Hafeez when he could bowl was the most vital player Pakistan had in the team. Misbah despite being slow and limited he was at the crease most part of the game and Umar Akmal had best career by any Pakistani at no.6 scoring at an average of 37 @ 88 strike rate. Ever since he has gone off the scene Pakistan has been struggling with their lower order batting.

MISBAH stays in the crease and never scores... Umar akmal in the beginning yes looked million dollar but he was given a free run for a long time based on his intial outburst to his career.. hafeez yes good with ball chucking, but still a batsman as u described for sarfraz (The best position for him would be when the ball is very old, field is spread and spinners are bowling from the both end.) but he opens even in tests shows how poor the management in judging potentials or being forced by someone from the top of their heads...

 

[msb314]

Great knock today but further proof that Sarfraz does have the game to bat in the lower order.

 

[Markhor]

Very quiet here.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

[MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION]

There is some wasteful target practice going on against the captain. So you would prefer more technically correct underperformers, spotfixers, stroke players to a lesser technical team man? I won't
Don't see any basis of your post, just trying to blackball Sarfaraz even after he had the best strike rate in this mindnumbing TTF galore.

Sarfaraz is further away even any U19 Pakistani player can't be compared with Hafeez and MAlik how they try to contribute for the team.

What was special in Hafeez, he, Haris and Fakhar wasted 10+ overs just to complete their 50s, this was a great batting pitch they used the occasion to first complete their personal scores instead of rotating the strike.
Sarfaraz has had issues with these seniors non-performance and keeping them in the team, but he did well with the bat to day consumed least dot balls and made selfless fast fifty to help Pakistan get near 250.
Hafeez took most time consuming dots it was just the last over where he hit 3 sixes which helped his personal strike rate. It did nothing fo the team Pakistan was 20-25 runs short.

 

[MRSN]

Very quiet here.

indeed. Also in the Hafeez thread. It's well established pattern from Pakistani players that they play their A game when their careers are on the line, when the series is lost and opposition is relaxed. Anyway it was a good knock I will give him credit for that. and Hafeez as well. Good for them until they face next challenge.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Very quiet here.

I missed the match, had it penned in for tonight!!

Hafeez scores an 80 and Sarfraz 50, pitch must have been pretty flat.

 

[MRSN]

[MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION]

There is some wasteful target practice going on against the captain. So you would prefer more technically correct underperformers, spotfixers, stroke players to a lesser technical team man? I won't
Don't see any basis of your post, just trying to blackball Sarfaraz even after he had the best strike rate in this mindnumbing TTF galore.

Sarfaraz is further away even any U19 Pakistani player can't be compared with Hafeez and MAlik how they try to contribute for the team.

What was special in Hafeez, he, Haris and Fakhar wasted 10+ overs just to complete their 50s, this was a great batting pitch they used the occasion to first complete their personal scores instead of rotating the strike.
Sarfaraz has had issues with these seniors non-performance and keeping them in the team, but he did well with the bat to day consumed least dot balls and made selfless fast fifty to help Pakistan get near 250.
Hafeez took most time consuming dots it was just the last over where he hit 3 sixes which helped his personal strike rate. It did nothing fo the team Pakistan was 20-25 runs short.

Bhai every player is subject to criticism if their performance is below the par. Sarfraz is no special. I used to defend Hafeez and Malik like blindly here but when they are failing on tougher challenges I can't defend them anymore. As a die hard Pak fan it hurts to see our team getting thrashed abroad in this fashion and our surrender like this. And our skipper being made to look like a joke by his actions, his fitness and lack of ability to lead from the front with his own performance. My criticism was valid for Misbah and it is valid for Sarfraz. It's very important for a team that its leader is inspiration with his performance to be successful. You can look at any top team these days and they have all captains that lead the team with their own performance. As a Pakistani fan I too want my captain to be a performer. Forget about X,Y,Z. they are not captains. If you want to be a captain then prove it with your performance.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Sarfraz still chooses to bat below malik and Hafeez!!

Look at the SR of the batsmen in top 6! They are still a decade behind!!

 

[MRSN]

I missed the match, had it penned in for tonight!!

Hafeez scores an 80 and Sarfraz 50, pitch must have been pretty flat.

so flat that de grandhomme looked like Viv out there. His knock clearly showed we were at least 70 runs short.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

so flat that de grandhomme looked like Viv out there. His knock clearly showed we were at least 70 runs short.

Well I guessed as such. No way will Hafeez and Sarfraz be competent on a decent track.

Why were top 6 batting with such appalling SR on a flat track?

 

[MRSN]

Well I guessed as such. No way will Hafeez and Sarfraz be competent on a decent track.

Why were top 6 batting with such appalling SR on a flat track?

to provide platform for last ten overs burst. Same old technique.

 

[prop558]

Well I guessed as such. No way will Hafeez and Sarfraz be competent on a decent track.

Why were top 6 batting with such appalling SR on a flat track?

Sarfraz should bat at No.4 and Babar at No.3 or the vice versa. While Haris or Asad Shafiq at No.5 and anyone among Husain Talat or Sohaib Maqsood should be given chance for No.6 slot.

We must get rid of Malik & Hafeez as soon as possible.

 

[srh]

I missed the match, had it penned in for tonight!!

Hafeez scores an 80 and Sarfraz 50, pitch must have been pretty flat.

I also almost miss the match thinking it will be today. Time difference can cause this.

Although Pakistan put up a good score but I feel only Sarfraz batted the modern ODI way with 100+ strike rate. All other batsmen were slower and when it was time for them to accelerate then they lost their wickets (Fakhar and Haris). Hafeez scored 22 runs in last over to achieve 100 strike rate so you can see how slow he was before. Pakistan still need to go a long way before they can become respectable in this format.

 

[prop558]

I also almost miss the match thinking it will be today. Time difference can cause this.

Although Pakistan put up a good score but I feel only Sarfraz batted the modern ODI way with 100+ strike rate. All other batsmen were slower and when it was time for them to accelerate then they lost their wickets (Fakhar and Haris). Hafeez scored 22 runs in last over to achieve 100 strike rate so you can see how slow he was before. Pakistan still need to go a long way before they can become respectable in this format.

Sarfraz, Fakhar and Babar are thest batsman in Pakistan according to modern day cricket. They rotate strikes while getting fours on the bad deliveries.

I hope the lovers of Misban, Hafeez, Malik, Akmal Brothers and Ahmed Shahzad will soon realize it that Pak needs solid players in TOP 4 who scores centuries after each 3-4 ODIs, So far not a single century in the current series by any of our top order batsman.

We & our thinking is far below than the modern day ODI cricket.

Either we love tuk tuk like Misbah or we love T-20 or T-10 type Six hitters.

 

[prop558]

Composition of Modern Cricket Teams in ODIs :


01 - Strike Rotator / Solid Batsman
02 - Power Hitter + Fast Scoring Batsman

03 - Strike Rotator / Solid Batsman - SR 80 - 90
04 - Strike Rotator / Solid Batsman - SR 80 - 90
05 - Strike Rotator / Solid Batsman - SR 80 - 90

06 - Power Hitter + All Rounder - SR 100+
07 - Power Hitter + All Rounder - SR 100+
08 - Power Hitter + All Rounder - SR 100+

09 - Tail Ender
10 - Tail Ender
11 - Tail Ender


MYTH OF AVERAGE Vs STRIKE RATE :

For 1 and 2, average and strike rate both matters equally or one for one each.

For 3, 4 and 5, average matters more than strike rate.

For 6, 7 and 8, strike matters more than average.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Bumping this thread...

He batted at 4 today and the results are there to see..

 

[MRSN]

Bumping this thread...

He batted at 4 today and the results are there to see..

Ahmed Shehzad opened the batting and look at the result...

 

[BlueDoritos]

Ahmed Shehzad opened the batting and look at the result...

Hafeez didn't play, look at the results.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Ahmed Shehzad opened the batting and look at the result...

you didnt understand the point here.. Sarfraz when bats at 4 scores runs and its proven.. Shehzad opens the batting for a lifetime and he plays one off wonder innings like this.

Shehzad in his last 12 months avg 15 in ODIs and in t20 avg 33 boosted up by the WORLD 11 series... if we cut down the world XI matches then his avg becomes 22 with SR 101.5 across 6 games against SRL and WI...

Lets see his consistency...

 

[Eagle_Eye]

you didnt understand the point here.. Sarfraz when bats at 4 scores runs and its proven.. Shehzad opens the batting for a lifetime and he plays one off wonder innings like this.

Shehzad in his last 12 months avg 15 in ODIs and in t20 avg 33 boosted up by the WORLD 11 series... if we cut down the world XI matches then his avg becomes 22 with SR 101.5 across 6 games against SRL and WI...

Lets see his consistency...

Let's see Sarfraz consistency ....

 

[MRSN]

you didnt understand the point here.. Sarfraz when bats at 4 scores runs and its proven.. Shehzad opens the batting for a lifetime and he plays one off wonder innings like this.

Shehzad in his last 12 months avg 15 in ODIs and in t20 avg 33 boosted up by the WORLD 11 series... if we cut down the world XI matches then his avg becomes 22 with SR 101.5 across 6 games against SRL and WI...

Lets see his consistency...

I do get your point but things are quite different in the ODIs. He won't be getting served lollipop bowling with spinners and medium pacers operating if he comes to bat in 4. Facing pace bowling is his weakness. He is someone who like Malik and Hafeez feast on spinners and medium pacers portion of the innings. I have seen his knock against England in the ODIs and he was literally struggling to clear the inner circle even when he was well set.

His technique will get exposed against a newish ball. His best bet is no.6 where he is keeping himself at the moment. I think he is smart.

 

[BlueDoritos]

I do get your point but things are quite different in the ODIs. He won't be getting served lollipop bowling with spinners and medium pacers operating if he comes to bat in 4. Facing pace bowling is his weakness. He is someone who like Malik and Hafeez feast on spinners and medium pacers portion of the innings. I have seen his knock against England in the ODIs and he was literally struggling to clear the inner circle even when he was well set.

His technique will get exposed against a newish ball. His best bet is no.6 where he is keeping himself at the moment. I think he is smart.

Lollipop bowling?! He hit Boult for a six. Sodhi was there best bowler and he ruined his figures today.

Looks like you don't watch the match, only here to talk ish about your non favorites.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I still don't think he should be coming in at No.4 but I think No.5 is perfect for him. As for Ahmed Shehzad........ ugghhh

 

[MRSN]

Lollipop bowling?! He hit Boult for a six. Sodhi was there best bowler and he ruined his figures today.

Looks like you don't watch the match, only here to talk ish about your non favorites.

lol even Waqar Younus during commentary said I would not have bowled on this pitch it was such flat road and did you see those tiny boundaries? simply just lift over bowlers head and it would be six. Even Baber looked like second coming of AB De Villiers today.Lol

 

[Usman Chadda]

I do get your point but things are quite different in the ODIs. He won't be getting served lollipop bowling with spinners and medium pacers operating if he comes to bat in 4. Facing pace bowling is his weakness. He is someone who like Malik and Hafeez feast on spinners and medium pacers portion of the innings. I have seen his knock against England in the ODIs and he was literally struggling to clear the inner circle even when he was well set.

His technique will get exposed against a newish ball. His best bet is no.6 where he is keeping himself at the moment. I think he is smart.

I wish Kamran Akmal was as good as you think he is even against lollipop bowling with spinners and medium pacers.

Sarfraz is our best batsman at no.4 fullstop. He should stop sacrificing himself for ******-panjus like Hafeez and Malik who have done nothing despite having 32 years worth of international cricket experience combined together. He's destroying his career catering to these two.

 

[coy0607]

lol even Waqar Younus during commentary said I would not have bowled on this pitch it was such flat road and did you see those tiny boundaries? simply just lift over bowlers head and it would be six. Even Baber looked like second coming of AB De Villiers today.Lol

considering this is the first win of the tour - I wouldn't sound to high and might about 'small grounds and flat wickets'

some people here deserve to watch Hafeez and Malik bat for another decade

 

[BlueDoritos]

lol even Waqar Younus during commentary said I would not have bowled on this pitch it was such flat road and did you see those tiny boundaries? simply just lift over bowlers head and it would be six. Even Baber looked like second coming of AB De Villiers today.Lol

Hmm... I see

If Shehzad scores 44 off 34: it's lauded as incredible, Bravehearted, BeAsTLy innings.

If Sarfraz and Babar scores: Flat RoAd, SmAlL boundaries, Lollipop bowling.

Great insight. Worth A Pulitzer prize.

 

[sshakir411]

Hmm... I see

If Shehzad scores 44 off 34: it's lauded as incredible, Bravehearted, BeAsTLy innings.

If Sarfraz and Babar scores: Flat RoAd, SmAlL boundaries, Lollipop bowling.

Great insight. Worth A Pulitzer prize.

According to this guy Ahmed Shehzad won you the match. Shehzad had the lowest strike rate out of the top 4...goes to show how the poster's ability to reason is clouded by personal bias.

 

[babajee]

Saify has clearly been working hard on his batting... I’ve never seen him hit like he has this series

 

[MRSN]

Hmm... I see

If Shehzad scores 44 off 34: it's lauded as incredible, Bravehearted, BeAsTLy innings.

If Sarfraz and Babar scores: Flat RoAd, SmAlL boundaries, Lollipop bowling.

Great insight. Worth A Pulitzer prize.

There is no doubt about Shehzad's ability against fast bowlers. Sarfraz's struggles on this tour when batting was struggling was all to see.

 

[Syed1]

There is no doubt about Shehzad's ability against fast bowlers. Sarfraz's struggles on this tour when batting was struggling was all to see.

Sarfaraz wipes the floor with Shehzad as a batsman no matter how much you say otherwise. Your biases are well known on this forum.

 

[Rayyman]

Saify has clearly been working hard on his batting... I’ve never seen him hit like he has this series

Yeah he is getting under the ball and more importantly hitting it high instead of far.

 

[babajee]

Yeah he is getting under the ball and more importantly hitting it high instead of far.

You didn’t even watch the match

 

[Pete Rose]

by far the most important thing Sarfaraz has done this series.
He has to bat at 4. one reason why he is no dhoni is because the latter had the fitness to play all three formats for a long time and often bat 4 and captain.

 

[in_cutter]

Not going to come to any conclusions based on lungi cricket. He should have come up the order for the ODI series.

 

[Rayyman]

You didn’t even watch the match

Just watched highlights.

Also most importantly, he is timing it well which is key because he isn't strong enough to muscle it.

 

[Markhor]

There is no doubt about Shehzad's ability against fast bowlers. Sarfraz's struggles on this tour when batting was struggling was all to see.

There's plenty of doubt to Shehzad's ability against pace.

He struggled against Dhammika Prasad, Nuwan Pradeep and Suranga Lakmal in the 2015 SL series. How will he handle Anderson and co. in English conditions or Philander and Rabada in South Africa ?

 

[Pete Rose]

There's plenty of doubt to Shehzad's ability against pace.

He struggled against Dhammika Prasad, Nuwan Pradeep and Suranga Lakmal in the 2015 SL series. How will he handle Anderson and co. in English conditions or Philander and Rabada in South Africa ?

I think, in t20 and odi - he can get away with number 4 (at least until he is dropped). In test matches he has to bat 6/7

 

[MenInG]

Mickey Arthur's views:

Sarfaraz's batting position in LOIs

"It's very simple, we need to be fluid and we're fluid with our game plans. Sarfaraz has done exceptional work with us up and down the order. We need to realise that form comes and goes over a long tour. Players start playing well, and then they slip off the radar so we need to then send in our form players at any given minute"

"We had a look at some key areas in the T20Is with some players, some did well in those periods and some didn't. We had to give them a chance to prove to us whether they could, or couldn't do it"

"In terms of fluidity, it's whoever's in form who can fulfil each situation's requirements. All teams are flexible and we are trying to be the same. If we didn't give chances to those players in those positions, we wouldn't know about them. The last thing we want is to get to a crunch knockout game and send a guy we don't know something about, we have to give them chances beforehand to execute. When there's a game on the line with 20k in the stadium and a TV audience, you can't recreate that in training, so we have to find out about these guys. So we know Saifi can deliver at any position in the batting order but we wanted to see what the others can do"

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...like-losing-We-hate-losing-quot-Mickey-Arthur

 

[Pete Rose]

Mickey Arthur's views:

Sarfaraz's batting position in LOIs

"It's very simple, we need to be fluid and we're fluid with our game plans. Sarfaraz has done exceptional work with us up and down the order. We need to realise that form comes and goes over a long tour. Players start playing well, and then they slip off the radar so we need to then send in our form players at any given minute"

"We had a look at some key areas in the T20Is with some players, some did well in those periods and some didn't. We had to give them a chance to prove to us whether they could, or couldn't do it"

"In terms of fluidity, it's whoever's in form who can fulfil each situation's requirements. All teams are flexible and we are trying to be the same. If we didn't give chances to those players in those positions, we wouldn't know about them. The last thing we want is to get to a crunch knockout game and send a guy we don't know something about, we have to give them chances beforehand to execute. When there's a game on the line with 20k in the stadium and a TV audience, you can't recreate that in training, so we have to find out about these guys. So we know Saifi can deliver at any position in the batting order but we wanted to see what the others can do"

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...like-losing-We-hate-losing-quot-Mickey-Arthur

Truth be told, when your form is not predictable you are going to be moved around quite a bit. i would like that in the coming games we have him come at 4 if the team is in trouble during 15th - 35th over. If its after 35 overs, he has to demote himself in favor of hafeez or other hitters.

 

[Markhor]

Sarfraz averages 53 at SR of 92 batting at 5 against top teams. Yet he floats all over the place.

Problem is in Shoaib Malik and Sarfraz Ahmed you've two number 5s practically playing the same role !

That is to rotate strike in middle overs, bash spinners, and get out versus any decent pace bowling.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Sarfraz averages 53 at SR of 92 batting at 5 against top teams. Yet he floats all over the place.

Problem is in Shoaib Malik and Sarfraz Ahmed you've two number 5s practically playing the same role !

That is to rotate strike in middle overs, bash spinners, and get out versus any decent pace bowling.

This is where Haris Sohail can replace Malik at no. 4. In England I don't think Malik will survive and it's a long World Cup