Only four players to survive South Africa humiliation, says Darren Lehmann

[karthikc]

Link

Coach Darren Lehmann declared only four players were sure to keep their places in the Australian team after another demoralising batting collapse handed South Africa a crushing series victory in Hobart on Tuesday.
In what is becoming a regular occurrence, the Australians folded spectacularly losing eight wickets for 32 runs in just under 20 overs for an innings and 80-run defeat to the Proteas before lunch on the fourth day.

The batting freefall has intensified scrutiny on Steve Smith’s embattled side after their fifth straight heavy Test defeat this year, all by 100 runs or more.

Lehmann, whose coaching position is also under scrutiny after it was extended to 2019 only last August, said there will “definitely” be changes for next week’s final day-night Test in Adelaide.

As a consequence of the early-finishing Hobart Test, all batsmen, including wicketkeeper Peter Nevill and spinner Nathan Lyon, but not the three pace bowlers, will be required to play in this week’s round of domestic Sheffield Shield before the Test squad is named on Sunday.

Lehmann, who also sits on the selection panel, said that only Smith, David Warner and pace pair Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood would be sure of keeping their spots.
“We’ve got to stop the rot, we’ve got to work out what the best XI is,” Lehmann told reporters.

“Guys playing in this Test match, some were disappointed in their performances and they get the chance to play the Shield games to put their hand up. I thought Hazlewood was great, Starc’s getting back to his best and then you’ve got Smith and Warner.

“Outside of that everyone’s got to make some runs and take some wickets. It’s a really important four days of Shield cricket.”

Those looking down the gun are 37-year-old batsman Adam Voges, opener Joe Burns and Callum Ferguson, who both came in for the Hobart Test. Spinner Lyon is another whose place is at risk after taking just two wickets at 120.50 each in the South Africa series.

“Like everyone else, Adam’s been a very good player for us for 20-odd Test matches. End of the day he’s got to go back and make runs like everyone else,” Lehmann said.

The coach said there was a desolate mood in the dressing room after the defeat.

“Everybody is hurting in the rooms. I haven’t seen it as quiet after a loss and that’s understandable because of the performances,” he said.

“We pride ourselves on playing for our country and we haven’t done that well enough over the last three and a half days.”

He said former greats were talking with the shattered players, offering advice and support going forward.

“Mark Taylor and Shane Warne have been chatting to the guys one on one. Ian Healy, Tom Moody, Simon Katich, Brett Lee, we’ve had a lot of the legends come in,” he said.

“The young guys who are playing today looked up to them. It’s great to have them in the rooms and speaking to them.”

 

[Suleiman]

Starc, Smith (duh), Warner, Hazlewood

Kind of harsh on Khawaja though.

 

[samplepiece]

Khwaja would be the fifth.

 

[Pantani]

Khawaja looked good in the second innings both in Hobart and Perth, he should be a certain pick.

 

[Pantani]

If a commitment to wholesale change is made, then I want to see six debutants in Adelaide, or five and Glenn Maxwell. Not recycling the Marsh bros, Wade, Henriques, Siddle etc.

 

[Convict]

If a commitment to wholesale change is made, then I want to see six debutants in Adelaide, or five and Glenn Maxwell. Not recycling the Marsh bros, Wade, Henriques, Siddle etc.

Harsh on Shaun Marsh.

And much as I dislike it Wade is probably the best choice because at least the bloke can stick around.

 

[anuk]

U can't possibly drop Ferguson because of one bad match??

 

[spade]

Harsh on Shaun Marsh.

And much as I dislike it Wade is probably the best choice because at least the bloke can stick around.

Definitely wade should be keeping and maybe give lyon a break and bring zampa who is young and could be a handful against Pakistan.

 

[Convict]

Definitely wade should be keeping and maybe give lyon a break and bring zampa who is young and could be a handful against Pakistan.

Zampa is rubbish in first class cricket

 

[Junaids]

I've written about this in another thread, but some observations:

1. There are really only the following positions which demand instant action:
SECOND OPENER - until Shaun Marsh is fit.
NUMBER 5 - but nobody demands selection.
NUMBER 6 - I'd just recall Mitch Marsh.
KEEPER - Matthew Wade obviously about to be recalled.
THIRD QUICK - Jackson Bird obviously about to return.

2. Excessive changes will just further destabilise the team.

3. Steve Smith literally looks defeated. I know he won't be sacked, but he's not far from the point of quitting. If that happens, there's trouble. It's not the Aussie way, but I'd do a Brearley/Misbah - bring in Ed Cowan to skipper the team.

4. The people who shouldn't survive are on the management side - Pat Howard and James Sutherland.

 

[Varun]

No point bringing Khawaja to India, best to drop him now.

 

[Mamoon]

Should have asked for express highways; there would have been no humiliation in the first place.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - Aussies didn't prepare pattas to suit them till now. It was to extend tests to 5 days.

But from now on, they will have pattas cos the alternative is shocking.

This is what pattas do to you. Screws up your batting beyond repair. But looks like Aus have no other option for now.

 

[Bilal7]

Khawaja has done nothing wrong to be grouped with Voges, Marsh brothers, Burns and the rest. Averages a very respectable 40-odd in this series despite batting in the most difficult and important batting position.

 

[Dark Magician]

I've written about this in another thread, but some observations:

1. There are really only the following positions which demand instant action:
SECOND OPENER - until Shaun Marsh is fit.
NUMBER 5 - but nobody demands selection.
NUMBER 6 - I'd just recall Mitch Marsh.
KEEPER - Matthew Wade obviously about to be recalled.
THIRD QUICK - Jackson Bird obviously about to return.

2. Excessive changes will just further destabilise the team.

3. Steve Smith literally looks defeated. I know he won't be sacked, but he's not far from the point of quitting. If that happens, there's trouble. It's not the Aussie way, but I'd do a Brearley/Misbah - bring in Ed Cowan to skipper the team.

4. The people who shouldn't survive are on the management side - Pat Howard and James Sutherland.

Who's on the selection panel? Fire the whole lot.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Khawaja has done nothing wrong to be grouped with Voges, Marsh brothers, Burns and the rest. Averages a very respectable 40-odd in this series despite batting in the most difficult and important batting position.

Can't play spin to save his life, when the conditions worsened he couldn't emulate the ugly runs he scored the previous night, and as pointed above, their next overseas tour is India.

 

[HateKiller]

Warner will be sent to Shield.

 

[Convict]

Khawaja has done nothing wrong to be grouped with Voges, Marsh brothers, Burns and the rest. Averages a very respectable 40-odd in this series despite batting in the most difficult and important batting position.

But we go to India soon and even by Australian standards he is bad against spin.

Shaun Marsh is the one unfairly lumped in with the others given his only failing was breaking his finger

 

[street cricketer]

If a commitment to wholesale change is made, then I want to see six debutants in Adelaide, or five and Glenn Maxwell. Not recycling the Marsh bros, Wade, Henriques, Siddle etc.

Glenn Maxwell??

 

[Syed1]

All hell will break lose in Aussie cricketing circles if we manage to beat them in the first test.

Never seen a weaker Aussie side. In a way this is quite sad, I'm from a generation where Australia was so far ahead of the pack that beating them wasn't even an option. Well whatever goes up must come down.

Australia need to make Warner the captain and build a team around him. Smith does not seem to have the requisite skills to be a good captain. His batting is also severely hit or miss.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Can't drop Khawaja now...

 

[Canistani Hero]

All hell will break lose in Aussie cricketing circles if we manage to beat them in the first test.

Never seen a weaker Aussie side. In a way this is quite sad, I'm from a generation where Australia was so far ahead of the pack that beating them wasn't even an option. Well whatever goes up must come down.

Australia need to make Warner the captain and build a team around him. Smith does not seem to have the requisite skills to be a good captain. His batting is also severely hit or miss.

Agreed, Smith just seems a broken man, can't lead atm. Need a break to rejuvenate

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - Aussies didn't prepare pattas to suit them till now. It was to extend tests to 5 days.

But from now on, they will have pattas cos the alternative is shocking.

This is what pattas do to you. Screws up your batting beyond repair. But looks like Aus have no other option for now.

True looks like it

the pitches this year have not been anywhere near as flat as the india series and nz series last yr and the results are horrifying

SA deserve credit too though

 

[Rayyman]

All hell will break lose in Aussie cricketing circles if we manage to beat them in the first test.

Never seen a weaker Aussie side. In a way this is quite sad, I'm from a generation where Australia was so far ahead of the pack that beating them wasn't even an option. Well whatever goes up must come down.

Australia need to make Warner the captain and build a team around him. Smith does not seem to have the requisite skills to be a good captain. His batting is also severely hit or miss.

Insha Allah Pakistan will replace Australia in that regard.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Perth wicket was flat, batsmen needed to grind in which Aussies didn't do. Rabada was sensational on that pitch else it would have been a draw.

 

[MMHS]

Why Lehman himself is going to enjoy a free ride till 2019? Also, it's a bit harsh that Warner is assured of his spot while Khawaja not.

I probably would have made one more change - Warner at 5. He is setting wrong precedence an an opener. S Marsh will return later after injury - apart from that, my team for D/N Test will be

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Handscomb
4. Smith
5. Curtis Patterson
6. George Bailey (A must for IND tour)
7. Sam Whiteman/Methew Wade (I go for Whiteman)
8. O'keefe (If he is fit, otherwise Lyon has to be played - in a 4 bowler strategy a specialist spinner should be there)
9. Starc
9. Hazlewood
11. Bird

They can try Handscomb as WK, which I don't suggest, particularly just before IND tour, when WK'll need to keep for long on bent knees - specialist should be groomed - that takes out Ben Dunk as well. I had to open with Warner, but if Handscomb is willing, I’ll make him open & Warner at 5, bringing Patterson at 3.


For IND tour, both Lyon & O’Keefe plays & Bird misses out in bowling line-up. For batting, Khawaja misses out to Marsh. Not a great side for IND tour actually. May be Maxi in the squad is not a bad idea, but he can’t play as one of 4 bowlers – 5th bowler & all-rounder at 6 may be, but I’ll take Bailey in IND just after Smith (Warner averages 25 in 7 Test against IND/SRL in their home).

 

[Buffet]

How about the coach? Is there a reason for him to survive?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

True looks like it

the pitches this year have not been anywhere near as flat as the india series and nz series last yr and the results are horrifying

SA deserve credit too though

SA are an insane team really.

Poor [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION].

Whenever he is positive about his team's chances (WC, India tour), they get carted around.

Whenever he is hopeless about his team's chances (Duban game vs India, Aus tour), they destroy opponents and win. )

Seriously though, incredible performance by Saffers.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

How about the coach? Is there a reason for him to survive?

This. They need to get rid of Lehmann and the selectors first.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I don't care much as long as we win our series there.

 

[soso_killer]

SA are an insane team really.

Poor [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION].

Whenever he is positive about his team's chances (WC, India tour), they get carted around.

Whenever he is hopeless about his team's chances (Duban game vs India, Aus tour), they destroy opponents and win. )

Seriously though, incredible performance by Saffers.

i never expected us to win in India, I remember contemplating to create a thread about "All Roads End in India" I even mentioned it here in one of the threads prior to that series.
I was shocked when we won the ODI series (due to our poor chasing ability, which we've rectified somewhat over the last 12 months), and cautioned everyone not to get carried away.
Obviously I wasn't expecting the conditions we got, not in a million years. But we were losing that series no matter what.

World Cup? Until the ICC does away with D/L method i always reserve my opinion regarding World Cups. It always rains when we are on top in crucial matches.
We've played 4 World Cup semifinals and only lost 1 in a logical manner. The rest only scientists can explain, Ironically they know nothing about cricket.
Imagine a FIFA WC being decided by an algorithm no one understands, there would be a complete turmoil.
No team should ever lose an important event such as a World Cup via a calculator.

 

[Hasan123]

All hell will break lose in Aussie cricketing circles if we manage to beat them in the first test.

Never seen a weaker Aussie side. In a way this is quite sad, I'm from a generation where Australia was so far ahead of the pack that beating them wasn't even an option. Well whatever goes up must come down.

Australia need to make Warner the captain and build a team around him. Smith does not seem to have the requisite skills to be a good captain. His batting is also severely hit or miss.

Smith hit and miss looool? Who was the only batsmen to survive in the 1st innings? An inch of movement of the pitch and the Aussies batting line up is gone.

 

[Hasan123]

Hit and miss batsmen don't average 58.
Hit and miss batsmen don't score 48 rund out of 86 the team score.
Hit and miss batsmen don't have centuries in England,South Africa,Sri Lanka, and New Zealand.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] needs to check his facts.

 

[Syed1]

Smith hit and miss looool? Who was the only batsmen to survive in the 1st innings? An inch of movement of the pitch and the Aussies batting line up is gone.

Please go back and look up the meaning of hit or miss.

These are Smith's numbers in tests this year:




Apart from the daylight loot and plunder of NZ Smith has had quite a mediocre year. Hence the term hit or miss looooooooooool

 

[Hasan123]

Please go back and look up the meaning of hit or miss.

These are Smith's numbers in tests this year:

View attachment 70596


Apart from the daylight loot and plunder of NZ Smith has had quite a mediocre year. Hence the term hit or miss looooooooooool

An average of 41 is bad in subcontinent for an Australian batsmen of today's era?

He could also get a century in the last test vs South Africa.

There are more hit and miss players than Smith in the Australian team.

 

[Syed1]

These are Adam Voges numbers for career and this year. In his career he averages 62 but this year he is only averaging a severely mediocre 38. Hence the term HIT OR MISS. Perhaps people need to learn the meaning of phrases rather than loling all over the place.

 

[Hasan123]

These are Adam Voges numbers for career and this year. In his career he averages 62 but this year he is only averaging a severely mediocre 38. Hence the term HIT OR MISS. Perhaps people need to learn the meaning of phrases rather than loling all over the place.

View attachment 70597

Cricket is not all about stats. Even when Voges were scoring heavily a majority were saying he needed to score away from home.

Look at Smith overall record in the last 2 or 3 years and you will see he's not hit and miss.Just because he didn't score heavily in 1 or 2 series doesn't mean he's hit and miss.

I don't need to learn what hit and miss is. I don't understand why you need to revert to personal jibes when discussing a game of cricket.

 

[Ellipsism]

Khawaja has done nothing wrong to be grouped with Voges, Marsh brothers, Burns and the rest. Averages a very respectable 40-odd in this series despite batting in the most difficult and important batting position.

What happened to Khawaja in Sri Lanka? Khawaja is unable to play spin. Best to drop him now, instead of Khawaja getting humiliated by Ashwin and co.

 

[Ellipsism]

Who's on the selection panel? Fire the whole lot.

The chief selector is Rod Marsh. Shaun and Mitchell Marsh's father.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Could we see Finch get a call-up

 

[BD-fan]

Should have asked for express highways; there would have been no humiliation in the first place.

lol, 2 days and a session. That is how long this match lasted. Express highways would make the test 4 sessions long in total.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

will be harsh on Marsh and khawaja if they are left out... marsh left out for the second test is also unfair...their top 4 is ok... they should play six batsman and 4 bowlers...need to bring to experienced first class middle order batsman to bat at 5 and 6 and bring wade in... Darren should be off from the selection panel, he should focus on coaching them rather selecting..

 

[Mamoon]

People are making the 'Ben Stokes' mistake with Mitch Marsh. He is being written off far too early and he will serve humble pies in due time.

Perhaps not as emphatically as Stokes because he is not as good, but there is a quality all-rounder embedded within him that will be harnessed with time, patience and persistence.

People seem to have a lot of time of under-performing batsmen and bowlers, but if it is an all-rounder, he is quickly brushed aside and labeled a useless bits and pieces player. Perhaps it is psychological because an all-rounder who is not performing is essentially failing twice, so he sticks out more.

 

[Pantani]

Glenn Maxwell??

He is the only all rounder who has been capped for Australia and is not in the current team who I think deserves another chance. Marsh too I suppose but he should be dropped for Adelaide too imo

So if an all rounder can't be found I think Maxwell is worth the risk. He is a player who is full of confidence. He would never get out like Voges did, being in two minds about playing an attacker shot, or like Ferguson, taking his eyes off the ball. And to be honest a quick, Afridi-esque 20 from the number 6 batsman would be a massive upgrade on what has been provided by the number 6 for the last 12 months. If Maxwell can score quick 20s and 30s he's definitely going to be worth a spot until a genuine number 6 or all rounder comes around.

 

[Pantani]

Harsh on Shaun Marsh.

And much as I dislike it Wade is probably the best choice because at least the bloke can stick around.

Isn't he still injured

Also Bird can play too. So perhaps only four youngsta beauties if Smarsh is in too

 

[Abdullah719]

will be harsh on Marsh and khawaja if they are left out... marsh left out for the second test is also unfair...their top 4 is ok... they should play six batsman and 4 bowlers...need to bring to experienced first class middle order batsman to bat at 5 and 6 and bring wade in... Darren should be off from the selection panel, he should focus on coaching them rather selecting..

If you're referring to Shaun Marsh, he didn't play the second Test due to a broken finger.

 

[Junaids]

People are making the 'Ben Stokes' mistake with Mitch Marsh. He is being written off far too early and he will serve humble pies in due time.

Perhaps not as emphatically as Stokes because he is not as good, but there is a quality all-rounder embedded within him that will be harnessed with time, patience and persistence.

People seem to have a lot of time of under-performing batsmen and bowlers, but if it is an all-rounder, he is quickly brushed aside and labeled a useless bits and pieces player. Perhaps it is psychological because an all-rounder who is not performing is essentially failing twice, so he sticks out more.

I couldn't agree more.

I could easily see Australia building up to a "home" team for the next few summers of:

1. Dave Warner
2. Shaun Marsh (it's there for Cam Bancroft if he can sort his game out)
3. Usman Khawaja
4. Steve Smith
5. Jake Lehmann
6. Mitch Marsh
7. Matthew Wade (wk)
8. Glenn Maxwell
9. Mitch Starc
10. Pat Cummins / James Pattinson
11. Josh Hazlewood

The main controversy would be Glenn Maxwell. But I think his runs and fielding outweigh "GOAT Lyon" and his moderate bowling.

 

[osee_bhai]

If the team has to be so drastically changed after one match, doesn't it say more about the selectors than the players? Why didn't they pick the original team in the first place? Is it correct to judge players off one match?

 

[Mamoon]

I couldn't agree more.

I could easily see Australia building up to a "home" team for the next few summers of:

1. Dave Warner
2. Shaun Marsh (it's there for Cam Bancroft if he can sort his game out)
3. Usman Khawaja
4. Steve Smith
5. Jake Lehmann
6. Mitch Marsh
7. Matthew Wade (wk)
8. Glenn Maxwell
9. Mitch Starc
10. Pat Cummins / James Pattinson
11. Josh Hazlewood

The main controversy would be Glenn Maxwell. But I think his runs and fielding outweigh "GOAT Lyon" and his moderate bowling.

Yes. Mitch Marsh at 6 is the way forward and after messing around for years, they need to realize that Khawaja and Shaun Marsh are not ideal but they are comfortably better than the other options.