Our CT trophy performances in 2013 vs CT trophy performances in 2017?

[Savak]

That side had the likes of Nasir Jamshaid, Imran Farhat, Mohd Hafeez, Misbah ul Haq, Asad Shafiq, Shoaib Malik, Kamran Akmal, Saeed Ajmal, Junaid Khan, Mohd Irfan, Wahab Riaz and Co.

Nasir Jamshaid was regarded as the next best thing. Misbah was in the form of his life. Malik, Hafeez, Farhat, Akmal were experienced. We had the services of a pre 15 degree prime Ajmal, Junaid and Irfan were at their peak and in red hot form.
Yet that team led by Misbah ul Haq and coached by Dav Whatmore lost against every team inspite of having not such a bad side.

In comparison the present team has Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali Babar Azam, Mohd Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Imad Wasim, Shadab Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Wahab Riaz, Mohd Amir, Junaid Khan.

Clearly the 2017 CT trophy side is weaker, the players in the 2013 squad were stronger on paper. The bowling attack in the 2013 squad was much stronger. Misbah was an experienced and established captain and Whatmore was an experienced and established coach.

What excuses does the 2013 CT squad have for a pretty poor performance in comparison to the 2017 CT trophy squad which is lowly ranked.

 

[PakSarZameen]

Nasir Jamshed had fixed. Misbah was a good batsman but poor batsman. Mallik, Hafeez and Akmal were TTF. Hafeez was rubbish outside Asia and so on.

The 2017 squad is much better

 

[idrizzy]

Even though they're only 4 years apart, the cricket played is a lot different. Decades apart you could say. We're in the Semi's because we deserve to be here and have attacking players in the squad, and we deserved to get knocked out in CT 2013 for gutless batting.

 

[Syed1]

But but but Misbah the saviour is the best captain ever

 

[Savak]

Nasir Jamshed had fixed. Misbah was a good batsman but poor batsman. Mallik, Hafeez and Akmal were TTF. Hafeez was rubbish outside Asia and so on.

The 2017 squad is much better

How is the 2017 squad better? How is the 2017 bowling attack better when the 2013 bowling attack had a prime Ajmal, a prime Junaid and Irfan?

 

[Savak]

Even though they're only 4 years apart, the cricket played is a lot different. Decades apart you could say. We're in the Semi's because we deserve to be here and have attacking players in the squad, and we deserved to get knocked out in CT 2013 for gutless batting.

Rubbish, no significant difference in cricket in 2013 and 2017. There are 3 common players i.e. Hafeez, Malik and Junaid. The 2013 squad was much stronger and established.

 

[Savak]

Nasir Jamshed had fixed. Misbah was a good batsman but poor batsman. Mallik, Hafeez and Akmal were TTF. Hafeez was rubbish outside Asia and so on.

The 2017 squad is much better

Malik and Hafeez are still in the 2017 squad

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Rubbish, no significant difference in cricket in 2013 and 2017. There are 3 common players i.e. Hafeez, Malik and Junaid. The 2013 squad was much stronger and established.

Agreed!
We also lost to a very average Windies team and a SA team without Dale Steyn.Misbah was a dreadful captain!

 

[PakSarZameen]

Malik and Hafeez are still in the 2017 squad

and both are still the weak links in our team (although Malik has improved slightly)

 

[Savak]

and both are still the weak links in our team (although Malik has improved slightly)

How come Sarfaraz has reached the semi's with those weak links whereas Misbah couldn't win a single game in the CT in 2013 even though those guys were younger?

 

[Mamoon]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

 

[PakSarZameen]

How come Sarfaraz has reached the semi's with those weak links whereas Misbah couldn't win a single game in the CT in 2013 even though those guys were younger?

A) Sarfraz's captaincy is superior to Misbah's
B) Luck

 

[Savak]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

We could have lost the game against SA. We almost lost the SL game. The WI team in 2013 was at par with this SL team. Misbah had a stronger side and should have won to be honest.

 

[Titan24]

Big difference is somenew comers along with the captain.

Secondly we didnt have a deep batting lineup for a very long time and same was the case in that tourmument.

Trust me deep batting makes a huge difference, look at England.

Can you beleived we had Afridi coming at no 7 and Wahab at 8. You cant expect a lot.

Feilding was really poor with some of those guys in the team while current teams fieldin is a lot better.

 

[Savak]

A) Sarfraz's captaincy is superior to Misbah's
B) Luck

When a captain does well with an inferior team then no doubt he gets good marks on captaincy. What is Misbah's excuse for such a poor showing in the 2013 CT when he had a stronger team and a more stronger bowling attack and had decent captaincy experience?

 

[waleed88]

That side had the likes of Nasir Jamshaid, Imran Farhat, Mohd Hafeez, Misbah ul Haq, Asad Shafiq, Shoaib Malik, Kamran Akmal, Saeed Ajmal, Junaid Khan, Mohd Irfan, Wahab Riaz and Co.

Nasir Jamshaid was regarded as the next best thing. Misbah was in the form of his life. Malik, Hafeez, Farhat, Akmal were experienced. We had the services of a pre 15 degree prime Ajmal, Junaid and Irfan were at their peak and in red hot form.
Yet that team led by Misbah ul Haq and coached by Dav Whatmore lost against every team inspite of having not such a bad side.

In comparison the present team has Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali Babar Azam, Mohd Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Imad Wasim, Shadab Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Wahab Riaz, Mohd Amir, Junaid Khan.

Clearly the 2017 CT trophy side is weaker, the players in the 2013 squad were stronger on paper. The bowling attack in the 2013 squad was much stronger. Misbah was an experienced and established captain and Whatmore was an experienced and established coach.

What excuses does the 2013 CT squad have for a pretty poor performance in comparison to the 2017 CT trophy squad which is lowly ranked.

Both games had low scores, why not ask fans of the Akmals, the Maliks, the farhats, the Hafeezs...

the third one was washed out and it was a t20 game vs India, a dead rubber as well

 

[Savak]

Big difference is somenew comers along with the captain.

Secondly we didnt have a deep batting lineup for a very long time and same was the case in that tourmument.

Trust me deep batting makes a huge difference, look at England.

Can you beleived we had Afridi coming at no 7 and Wahab at 8. You cant expect a lot.

Feilding was really poor with some of those guys in the team while current teams fieldin is a lot better.

Moot point, Afridi and Umar Akmal did not play in the 2013 CT. Our batting was still deep in the 2013 CT with experienced players.

 

[Titan24]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

Who does? South Africa or Srilanka?

 

[waleed88]

When a captain does well with an inferior team then no doubt he gets good marks on captaincy. What is Misbah's excuse for such a poor showing in the 2013 CT when he had a stronger team and a more stronger bowling attack and had decent captaincy experience?

First game 180 by Pakistan, of which 96 were scored by Misbah alone...

we had them 8 down but WI eventually went through..

Second game we restricted SA to 230s as we did this year, but rain didn't save us like it did this time... so we were all out for 160 something with again Misbah top scoring with 60 odd..

 

[waleed88]

Moot point, Afridi and Umar Akmal did not play in the 2013 CT. Our batting was still deep in the 2013 CT with experienced players.

Batting wasn't deep at all, Farhat, Jamshed, Shafiq, Misbah, Malik, Kamran and then the tail...

 

[Mamoon]

Who does? South Africa or Srilanka?

Only SL were able to beat the best team in our group, and they lost K. Perera due to injury whose replacement failed today. So I would say they were more deserving than us.

 

[Titan24]

Moot point, Afridi and Umar Akmal did not play in the 2013 CT. Our batting was still deep in the 2013 CT with experienced players.

Sorry about mentioning Afridi.

Yes the problem wasnt with bowling even at that time as it did reasonaly well, it was again mediocre batting and I guess we cant even cross 200 in all the three matches

 

[Mamoon]

We could have lost the game against SA. We almost lost the SL game. The WI team in 2013 was at par with this SL team. Misbah had a stronger side and should have won to be honest.

That batting lineup was torrid, this one is relatively better. They had edge in bowling, but they weren't much better like you think.

 

[Titan24]

Only SL were able to beat the best team in our group, and they lost K. Perera due to injury whose replacement failed today. So I would say they were more deserving than us.

Yes K parera is a good player but I highly doubt his presence would have made such an impact taking into account his consistency.

We have also beaten world no 1 team, they may be called chokers but still it wasnt a stage to choke.

 

[Titan24]

Also Hassan Ali > Irfan
As a bowler, batsman and feilder.

While Amir > Wahab
As a bowler, batsman

Also we cant ignore the impact Fakhar Zaman had in both the matches. I realized it even more by looking at the scorecard of 2013 CT.

 

[NA]

Only SL were able to beat the best team in our group, and they lost K. Perera due to injury whose replacement failed today. So I would say they were more deserving than us.

But then they were completely manhandled by South Africa (and that's when SL were at full strength). Had SL and RSA played better and not lost to Pakistan they could have progressed to semis. They couldn't, and are deservedly out of the tournament.

 

[Madplayer]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

Really a defeatist attitude. Gotta say this. Not Pak's fault that SA choked and SL were in their team. India faced the same sides.

ON performance , Pak deserve to be in semis.

 

[Syed1]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

We won 2 out of the 3 games we played, same as India. We deserve to be in the semis as much as them no matter how much you cry.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Difference in captaincy and getting the best out of his bowlers.

This the poorest Pakistani team in a long time. It has few pathetic players who make contributions in negative.

 

[pakistani pride]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

Ooh please..pleaee just stop it! Yes the batting is 1 big disaster but stillnwe have an opener that can hit out and a decent lower order.

BUT its the bowling here that is world class. You should learn and give credit where its due.

 

[pakistani pride]

Only SL were able to beat the best team in our group, and they lost K. Perera due to injury whose replacement failed today. So I would say they were more deserving than us.

WOW. Just say in open man that you r hurt. On such a great moment you still looking for excuses.

Wow just wow man.

 

[shah_1]

Misbah is a poor ODI captain

Couldn't even defeat WI in Champion Trophy or the World Cup.

 

[Savak]

Also Hassan Ali > Irfan
As a bowler, batsman and feilder.

While Amir > Wahab
As a bowler, batsman

Also we cant ignore the impact Fakhar Zaman had in both the matches. I realized it even more by looking at the scorecard of 2013 CT. ��

Irfan in 2013 > Hasan Ali

Junaid was in red hot form. While in 2013 we had the services of a pre 15 degree prime Ajmal and Hafeez. Lame excuses really to defend the 2013 performances.

 

[Slog]

Only SL were able to beat the best team in our group, and they lost K. Perera due to injury whose replacement failed today. So I would say they were more deserving than us.

but they got smashed by SA

Cricket is an 8 team sport (more or less)

 

[idrizzy]

Rubbish, no significant difference in cricket in 2013 and 2017. There are 3 common players i.e. Hafeez, Malik and Junaid. The 2013 squad was much stronger and established.

Flatter pitches nowadays and in CT 2013, like I said gutless batting. We didn't pass 200 once. We look a tad better with the bat here and equal or better now (due to momentum) with the ball.

 

[Titan24]

Irfan in 2013 > Hasan Ali

Junaid was in red hot form. While in 2013 we had the services of a pre 15 degree prime Ajmal and Hafeez. Lame excuses really to defend the 2013 performances.

No I am not giving any excuse, its an open reality that we performed very poorly in CT 2013, its just that I honestly believe that Hassan has created more impact for Pakistan in England, Australia or West indies than Irfan has created in his career. Yes he was good and still is not that world beater of a bowler who won us matches single and was pretty mediocre fielder and batsman to go with,

Sarfaraz's captaincy and a few youngsters have added an energy in the team.

Its good to see Pakistan back with the old strategy of inducting dynamic youngsters in the team instead of debuting 32 33 years old performers.

 

[Savak]

Flatter pitches nowadays and in CT 2013, like I said gutless batting. We didn't pass 200 once. We look a tad better with the bat here and equal or better now (due to momentum) with the ball.

Then why didn't our bowlers singlehandely win a single game in 2013 when the bowling attack was much stronger in the form of a prime in form Junaid and Irfan, a pre 15 degree Ajmal and Hafeez if the pitches in 2013 were bowling friendly?

We are still playing Shoaib Malik and Hafeez in 2017 as well. Azhar Ali is hardly making the batting strong. Nasir Jamshaid back then was regarded as a red hot prospect in 2013 just like Fakhar Zaman is now?

What excuses does Misbah have for losing in an even more dreadful manner in the 2013 CT when the squad was stronger than the 2017 CT squad?

 

[Savak]

No I am not giving any excuse, its an open reality that we performed very poorly in CT 2013, its just that I honestly believe that Hassan has created more impact for Pakistan in England, Australia or West indies than Irfan has created in his career. Yes he was good and still is not that world beater of a bowler who won us matches single and was pretty mediocre fielder and batsman to go with,

Sarfaraz's captaincy and a few youngsters have added an energy in the team.

Its good to see Pakistan back with the old strategy of inducting dynamic youngsters in the team instead of debuting 32 33 years old performers.

We are not talking about Irfan's whole career here, we are talking about Irfan in 2013 when he was hitting 145-150 km/hr and was making good use of his height as well. That Irfan was more deadly than the current Hasan.

People need to acknowledge that Misbah had a stronger more experienced team in 2013.

 

[Titan24]

And the only youngsters in that team were Jamshed, Junaid and Asad Ali. Now we have Fakhar, Babar, Hassan, Shadab, Faheem and would consider Imad new too.

Young captain and youngsters do bring an x factor in the team.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I will take it, if Pakistan win the next two games as well regardless of how close they are.

In 2013, we only had 2 batsmen in Nasir and Misbah. Our tail started at no7 with total duds with the bat in Irfan, Junaid and Ajmal. There was no finisher then. Malik was in the worst form of his life. Hafeez and Farhat were what they usually are. We all know Kamran isn't the no 6 batsman.

Our 2017 team could become better if we bring Umar Amin to open and rid of Hafeez.

 

[Markhor]

Let's be honest, Sri Lanka should have won today but their ineptitude in the field trumped our ineptitude with the bat.

We didn't get any such freebies in 2013.

 

[Savak]

And the only youngsters in that team were Jamshed, Junaid and Asad Ali. Now we have Fakhar, Babar, Hassan, Shadab, Faheem and would consider Imad new too.

Young captain and youngsters do bring an x factor in the team.

Umar Amin was in the 2013 side as well.

Misbah got the team he wanted, he wanted Afridi and Umar Akmal dropped which is what happened.

 

[Savak]

Let's be honest, Sri Lanka should have won today but their ineptitude in the field trumped our ineptitude with the bat.

We didn't get any such freebies in 2013.

The WI in the 2013 match were throwing away their wickets, it could be argued that if Pakistan pressed harder for wickets given how strong our bowling attack was, we could have defended our total.

 

[Savak]

I will take it, if Pakistan win the next two games as well regardless of how close they are.

In 2013, we only had 2 batsmen in Nasir and Misbah. Our tail started at no7 with total duds with the bat in Irfan, Junaid and Ajmal. There was no finisher then. Malik was in the worst form of his life. Hafeez and Farhat were what they usually are. We all know Kamran isn't the no 6 batsman.

Our 2017 team could become better if we bring Umar Amin to open and rid of Hafeez.

But the likes of Malik, Hafeez, Kamran Akmal and co were experienced guys.

Misbah also had a stronger bowling attack, why did the 2013 squad perform so poorly under him?

 

[Titan24]

Umar Amin was in the 2013 side as well.

Misbah got the team he wanted, he wanted Afridi and Umar Akmal dropped which is what happened.

Yes thats right.

To be honest I was never a big fan of Misbah's ODI captaincy, although he took it at a very low time for Pakistan but still he couldnt add that killer instinct in our ODI team as Morgan has done with England. His test captaincy was pretty good.

I guess our today's team has a lot more energy and spark, there is something about them. Credit goes to Sarfaraz, Micky and Inzi by bringing in youngsters but I really hope they understand that Hafeez has gotten old and Azhar is struggling as an ODI player.

 

[WC-Passion]

2017 team is much better than 2013.

Azhar>Farhat
Fakhar>Jamshed
Babar>Hafeez
Malik 2017>Malik 2013
Sarfraz>Kamran
Hasan>Ehsan Adil/Irfan
Junaid=Junaid

You get the point. For the most part, 2017 is better.

 

[Asif321]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

we scored some 180 vs westindies . that too misbah 98 rest of team nothing

 

[aukhan]

What a disgrace that tournament was.

Captain's negative mentality and horrible team selection.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

But the likes of Malik, Hafeez, Kamran Akmal and co were experienced guys.

Misbah also had a stronger bowling attack, why did the 2013 squad perform so poorly under him?

Experience doesn't guarantee form. Malik was in the worst form of his life like I said. Hafeez we all know can't buy a run on swinging wickets. Kamran is not of use when he plays at no 6 or 7. All his good knocks have come at opening or 3 or 4 position. He just doesn't have the ability to marshal the tail or accelerate at the end.

We batted twice first during that tournament. Regardless of how potent your bowlers are, they can't do much if you have put only 180 or 150 on the board on reasonable wickets. We bowled first against SA and we did well by restricting them to 220 odd, but our batting was the worst at that time.

 

[Square Drive]

We got lucky this time around because SA choked and we had SL in our group. On performance, we do not deserve to make it to the semis.

Then India didn't deserve to make it either.

They only beat Pakistan, and "SA choked". They had SL in their group and couldn't even beat them.

 

[Square Drive]

@OP I don't know.

We were told that our team will collapse after Misbah's departure, and that we wouldn't even be able to cross 200...

 

[Mamoon]

Then India didn't deserve to make it either.

They only beat Pakistan, and "SA choked". They had SL in their group and couldn't even beat them.

They are a world class team, we are not. They are capable of beating us and South Africa without either of the team choking.

 

[Square Drive]

They are a world class team, we are not. They are capable of beating us and South Africa without either of the team choking.

Hit me up when they manage to beat SL.

 

[Mamoon]

Hit me up when they manage to beat SL.

They are ranked 2nd. They don't need to beat SL or any specific team.

 

[Square Drive]

They are ranked 2nd. They don't need to beat SL or any specific team.

How the excuses come for them.

We beat a team that the 2nd ranked team was unable to beat, and therefore we thoroughly deserve our SF spot. No need to make us look bad all the time.

Both Pakistan and India defeated 2/3 teams and deservedly made the semis.

 

[Hasan123]

This team is much better than that rubbish team in 2013. Looking at that batting line up in 2013 is depressing.

 

[Executioner]

2013 was better especially with Ajmal.

However the current team has good depth in batting and much better fielding.

What made a big difference was Pakistan was playing in a group of inform teams. Even the WI side back then was really good. Gayle and co. were no joke. Comparatively the current CT Pakistan had relatively easier opposition - Lanka and South Africa choking not once but twice back to back with their batting on batting heaven. No doubt Pak played to their potential unlike last time

 

[forverlurker]

2013 we had a mental widget for a captain as tactician

 

[thehub]

Hit me up when they manage to beat SL.

We thrashed your team. just because we lost one game against SL we are not ranked no 2? what logic is that.

 

[Square Drive]

We thrashed your team. just because we lost one game against SL we are not ranked no 2? what logic is that.

Triggered?

Don't start cutting yourself, and stop shoving your head into every post of mine when I'm clearly not talking to you and I don't give a hoot about who you are.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Triggered?

Don't start cutting yourself, and stop shoving your head into every post of mine when I'm clearly not talking to you and I don't give a hoot about who you are.

Yet you still replied.

 

[shokz1408]

Personally, I think our current CT17 team is better. More youngsters, and more potential. However, would like to see Haris sohail in tomorrow to lengthen the batting line up.

 

[Square Drive]

Yet you still replied.

If a man is obsessed with me and quotes me repeatedly, I'll have to shut him one at one point.

BTW you just did the exact same thing as that dude.

I really do trigger all these Indians, don't I? [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[CricFan2012]

Misbah was an awful captain and a slow player, along with other slow players in the team killed any chances in 2013.

You guys could've actually lifted the trophy this time if it wasn't for pateecher players like hafeez, azhar in playing 11, cannot believe harris wasn't given a game.

 

[WC-Passion]

This team is much better than that rubbish team in 2013. Looking at that batting line up in 2013 is depressing.

Exactly how can anyone say that team is better when no one but Misbah makes it into double digits consistently in that lineup. We didn't cross 200 once in that tournament as we had a team full of TTFs and/or out of form players.

 

[Savak]

@OP I don't know.

We were told that our team will collapse after Misbah's departure, and that we wouldn't even be able to cross 200...

Glad that Misbah's ODI captaincy is being exposed for what it was