Our former players have no clue about modern day cricket

[mkyawar]

I keep on listening to our former players about how pakistan needs to score around 240 so their bowlers win them the matches. In todays day and age, with 2 new balls its impossible to defend such totals no matter how good is your attack. Secondly, the outfield in places such as AUS, SA ,NZ and ENG are lush green and that makes reverse swing hard. I am amazed at the level of analysis our legends have. Shoaib akhtar, wasim and rameez seriously have no idea that pak needs to score atleast 280+ in overseas condition to get their bowlers a chance.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Agreed. Most of them aren't worth listening to

 

[Pete Rose]

Starts with selection. An odi line up with Azhar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfaraz

 

[Savak]

Not really, if you had the South African/Australian bowlers bowling instead of the Pakistani bowlers, they would have made a much better fight of it. Can't win matches when you have Rumman Raees opening the bowling.

 

[mkyawar]

Not really, if you had the South African/Australian bowlers bowling instead of the Pakistani bowlers, they would have made a much better fight of it. Can't win matches when you have Rumman Raees opening the bowling.

Agree but the wicket was flat. NZ eickets or wickets arond the world have flattened out so the batsmen need to score runs

 

[Savak]

Agree but the wicket was flat. NZ eickets or wickets arond the world have flattened out so the batsmen need to score runs

On the other hand if Pakistan were chasing 240 plus on this wicket and the NZ bowlers bowling, i would have been equally nervous. The Pakistani bowling attack without Usman Shinwari and Junaid Khan is looking pretty toothless, NZ knows that all they have to do is be circumspect against Amir.

 

[mkyawar]

On the other hand if Pakistan were chasing 240 plus on this wicket and the NZ bowlers bowling, i would have been equally nervous. The Pakistani bowling attack without Usman Shinwari and Junaid Khan is looking pretty toothless, NZ knows that all they have to do is be circumspect against Amir.

even usman shinwari or junaid khan could not have saved them. Junaid Khan was there in AUS but could not make any difference. While we cant judge Usman Shinwari based on series against Sri Lanka since everyone did well. The simple fact is we can not score 240 runs and defend against teams like AUS,SA,ENG,NZ in their own backyard since the pitches there have good bounce and unlike UAE come on to the bat. This myth that has been instilled in our captains head by our former players that we can defend a target of 250 against any team on any pitch needs to be wiped out. Agree our bowling is good but do not make it out to be invincible or the greatest bowling attack ever to set foot on earth.

 

[Red Devil]

We could have defended this if our bowling wasn't trash.

 

[Pete Rose]

even usman shinwari or junaid khan could not have saved them. Junaid Khan was there in AUS but could not make any difference. While we cant judge Usman Shinwari based on series against Sri Lanka since everyone did well. The simple fact is we can not score 240 runs and defend against teams like AUS,SA,ENG,NZ in their own backyard since the pitches there have good bounce and unlike UAE come on to the bat. This myth that has been instilled in our captains head by our former players that we can defend a target of 250 against any team on any pitch needs to be wiped out. Agree our bowling is good but do not make it out to be invincible or the greatest bowling attack ever to set foot on earth.

We can’t beat these teams in UAE as well in Odis

 

[Savak]

even usman shinwari or junaid khan could not have saved them. Junaid Khan was there in AUS but could not make any difference. While we cant judge Usman Shinwari based on series against Sri Lanka since everyone did well. The simple fact is we can not score 240 runs and defend against teams like AUS,SA,ENG,NZ in their own backyard since the pitches there have good bounce and unlike UAE come on to the bat. This myth that has been instilled in our captains head by our former players that we can defend a target of 250 against any team on any pitch needs to be wiped out. Agree our bowling is good but do not make it out to be invincible or the greatest bowling attack ever to set foot on earth.

I actually liked Usman Shinwari, his ability to get prodigious swing on a flat road like the UAE cannot be under estimated. That is a missing ingredient in this Pakistani team, fast aggressive swing. Junaid Khan atleast provides control and can even pick up a wicket or two as well, much better option than Raees.

 

[Ellipsism]

We could have defended this if our bowling wasn't trash.

But 2 ODI’s ago weren’t we the best ODI bowling attack in the world?

 

[mkyawar]

I actually liked Usman Shinwari, his ability to get prodigious swing on a flat road like the UAE cannot be under estimated. That is a missing ingredient in this Pakistani team, fast aggressive swing. Junaid Khan atleast provides control and can even pick up a wicket or two as well, much better option than Raees.

I agree. But the truth does not change. You need to score 270-280 against these teams in their condition. Places like AUS,SA,NZ and Eng have good batting wickets where the ball comes nicely. If shadab can score 50, why not our top order. Lets get out of this myth, 8 times out of 10 we will lose scoring 240 unless the pitch is turning. If it is flat and lush green, we will lose, as simple as that

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Don't agree with the OP.

 

[Red Devil]

But 2 ODI’s ago weren’t we the best ODI bowling attack in the world?

I meant our bowling in this particular match. Should've worded that better. Would be incredibly harsh to call this attack trash after a few bad games.

 

[Aman]

We could have defended this if our bowling wasn't trash.

240 was 30-40 runs under par.

Scoring was so easy for your tail, Guptill and Taylor once they showed some intent.

 

[New Yorker]

I keep on listening to our former players about how pakistan needs to score around 240 so their bowlers win them the matches. In todays day and age, with 2 new balls its impossible to defend such totals no matter how good is your attack. Secondly, the outfield in places such as AUS, SA ,NZ and ENG are lush green and that makes reverse swing hard. I am amazed at the level of analysis our legends have. Shoaib akhtar, wasim and rameez seriously have no idea that pak needs to score atleast 280+ in overseas condition to get their bowlers a chance.

A reasonable complaint, but overstated. You write as if the CT, in ENG, never happened. Pakistan held every team to around 200. It is the bowling which is failing now as much as the batting.

 

[Red Devil]

240 was 30-40 runs under par.

Scoring was so easy for your tail, Guptill and Taylor once they showed some intent.

That's true, our batting has been awful, no two ways about that.

I'm just saying we could've bowled a lot better than we did. 246 wasn't a winning total but it shouldn't have been this easy either. Just couldn't create any sort of pressure and the fielding was pretty bad too.

 

[Smudger]

O stupid people . Pakistan did not bowl bowled in a 50 over inn . Before the rain break pak bowled well 64 for 2 in 14 overs. Kane williamson himself said the rain made it easier for them

 

[Madplayer]

Starts with selection. An odi line up with Azhar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfaraz

I agree. Selection blunders are the worst manifestations of lack of understanding of the modern day game.

There are some issues which need to be recognised here.

The problem of poor selection is not new, we all know that. However the problem with the current team is rather a different one and dare i say more difficult to solve after the champions trophy win. It started with blunders like selecting Azhar ali and persisting with Hafeez in the champions trophy. Now there is no denying that they performed well in the finals and semi finals of the competition, but that doesnt change the fact that investing in them was a poor decision because of their known inability to perform well against good attacks in LOIs. Even today if you ask any sane poster here whether he will select hafeez and azhar for a similar tournament in the exact same conditions, most of them would say no.

The bigger problem is that Pakistan won the champions trophy with the same people performing. It would have been easier to get rid of them if they had failed even if Pakistan still won the CT. An example is wahab, he was part of the CT squad but still axed. After the CT, Pakistan won against world XI and Sri lanka. So the selectors, being their myopic selves, dont really see a reason to change the winning combination even when most people know Azhar and hafeez (especially without his bowling) are going to be dead weight there. The fact that Azhar was selected over Imam (who isnt ideal himself) who scored a 100 a couple of games ago should tell you what an impact CT had on the selectors. Malik is poor in these conditions too and ideally should be excluded in such conditions but at least you can make a case for him that he can be destructive when he gets going , he can bowl and is a good fielder. Sarfaraz doesnt merit a place in the side as a player but for the same reasons as hafeez and Azhar, he wont be dropped.

In conclusion, i would say that like always, it requires a debacle for them to make changes. Even wasim akram said that theu dont need to change the batting line up until they are 3-0 down These are Pakistani "experts" for you.

 

[Mamoon]

Folks here said the same. Their heads were in the clouds after we restricted SA, SL, England and India for low totals.

SA choked as usual, SL are mediocre, England were undone by a sluggish pitch and the Indian batsmen simply had an off day. They were scoring for fun and were bound to have a bad game. Unfortunately for them and fortunately for us, it happened in the final.

On a good batting pitch, our so-called best bowling attack in the world is going to concede 300 and that is more than what our garbage batsmen are capable of.

What is special about our attack? Yes Hasan is great, but what else?

Amir cannot take more than 1-2 wickets to save his life, Rumman isn't a strike bowler, Fahim is very ordinary and Shadab will not take wickets in these conditions.

It is a very average bowling attack when you look at it holistically. Hasan Ali plowing through teams has hidden our shortcomings. The moment he goes off the boil, we will be badly exposed.

 

[Sports_Psychologist]

A reasonable complaint, but overstated. You write as if the CT, in ENG, never happened. Pakistan held every team to around 200. It is the bowling which is failing now as much as the batting.

Missing Junaid and Imad right now... Juniod's tight line and length gives Amir a boost and Imad ability to take wickets against ***** players is something missing with our current bowling line up..

 

[mkyawar]

A reasonable complaint, but overstated. You write as if the CT, in ENG, never happened. Pakistan held every team to around 200. It is the bowling which is failing now as much as the batting.

I completely disagree. In CT, we restricted teams to 240 because we were bowling first. The mindset when bowling first is different as you use your stronger suit to go all out as bowling is pakistans strong suit. My argument is that of when PAKISTAN BATS FIRST. We can not go to places like NZ,Eng, SA,Aus and score 240-250 batting first. These teams will chase it in their homeyard 90% of the time.

In champions trophy against SA,SRI,ENG we were bowling first and there was less pressure on our bowlers. Thus they restricted the teams to a modest score.

If Pak had scored 239-9 instead of 339-6 in the Champions Trophy Final, would India collapse. Again my reason of creating this topic is that when Pakistan are batting first, they should not think that they can reach 240 somehow and defend it against big teams in their own yard.

 

[MRSN]

I keep on listening to our former players about how pakistan needs to score around 240 so their bowlers win them the matches. In todays day and age, with 2 new balls its impossible to defend such totals no matter how good is your attack. Secondly, the outfield in places such as AUS, SA ,NZ and ENG are lush green and that makes reverse swing hard. I am amazed at the level of analysis our legends have. Shoaib akhtar, wasim and rameez seriously have no idea that pak needs to score atleast 280+ in overseas condition to get their bowlers a chance.

Rashid Latif on PTV sports was suggesting that Azhar Ali is failing because we are not allowing him to bat at his favorite position.. )) so it's not about skills it's the position that is making him fail.

 

[MRSN]

I completely disagree. In CT, we restricted teams to 240 because we were bowling first. The mindset when bowling first is different as you use your stronger suit to go all out as bowling is pakistans strong suit. My argument is that of when PAKISTAN BATS FIRST. We can not go to places like NZ,Eng, SA,Aus and score 240-250 batting first. These teams will chase it in their homeyard 90% of the time.

In champions trophy against SA,SRI,ENG we were bowling first and there was less pressure on our bowlers. Thus they restricted the teams to a modest score.

If Pak had scored 239-9 instead of 339-6 in the Champions Trophy Final, would India collapse. Again my reason of creating this topic is that when Pakistan are batting first, they should not think that they can reach 240 somehow and defend it against big teams in their own yard.

Pak was successful in CT because our batting was never really tested and our bowlers delivered in every match. Slow pitches also helped our bowlers to get reverse swing which was a strong feature of our fast bowlers. Our batsmen were making 220's chase like they were chasing 400.

 

[Shafi]

This thread will be gold. Mark my word. Our formers never had clue about present team. They all are bias and have their own agendas

 

[MRSN]

This thread will be gold. Mark my word. Our formers never had clue about present team. They all are bias and have their own agendas

some of very funny analysis I heard today..
"If our batsmen play all 50 overs runs will come."
"Need to play safely till 40 overs and make sure we don't lose wickets and then go all out attack"

 

[Madplayer]

some of very funny analysis I heard today..
"If our batsmen play all 50 overs runs will come."
"Need to play safely till 40 overs and make sure we don't lose wickets and then go all out attack"

Lol play out 40 overs and then attack. Living in 1980s still.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I agree.Former players act as if all was fantastic in their heyday.They don’t know anything about the modern game.