Buffet
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Pk has a good attack. In the top 4 if everyone is match ready and firing.
Aus
Saffers
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Don't underestimate BD.
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Pk has a good attack. In the top 4 if everyone is match ready and firing.
Aus
Saffers
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Right, so if we don't have a big enough sample size, how did you come up with that 'struggle' part?THere you go. You don't really have any sample. Axar who is not even 3rd choice spinner is in top 10 ranking. It is what it is. Pakistan burden is carried by Hasan Ali at this point. He picked up boat load of wickets this year for Pakistan. Rest of the bowlers sure chip in. But they will struggle in Hasan's absence. Bit like How India's batting depends on top 3.
Right, so if we don't have a big enough sample size, how did you come up with that 'struggle' part?
Don't underestimate BD.
In Asian conditions (which means half the times), BD has one of the best attack. Maybe we are 5th behind India but that is as low as we'll go.
We are riding on the coattails of Hasan and to an extent Shadab, who are papering over the cracks. Hasan is fantastic but at some point he will go through a lean patch as well, and that is where our bowling is going to struggle because the other options don't look good enough to be considered best in the world.
South Africa and India have more well rounded attacks and they don't really have any particular weak-links in their attacks. Secondly, our bowling still has a lot to prove on proper batting pitches. Our attack is tailor-made for low scoring pitches like the UAE etc., but they are not yet tested in places like Australia, South Africa, NZ etc., and although we did it a few times in England in the CT, but it had a lot to do with SA and India having off-days and England struggling on a slow Cardiff pitch.
It is certainly a very good attack but it is not best in the world.
Ma Sha Allah your logic is amazing. Our bowling gets the opposition out for a low score 4/5 games but we did it a few times. Whereas your team india bowling attack couldn't defend 320+ against SL. You are making excuses for every single team, SA and india had off days, England got slow pitch blah blah blah. [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]
Ma Sha Allah your logic is amazing. Our bowling gets the opposition out for a low score 4/5 games but we did it a few times. Whereas your team india bowling attack couldn't defend 320+ against SL. You are making excuses for every single team, SA and india had off days, England got slow pitch blah blah blah. [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]
Hasan is the best bowler between the two teams but apart from him, India have an edge. Their spin attack is superior than ours. Our only quality spinner is Shadab, but India have Yadav and Chahal who are both very good.
Imad won't get a game in India, Malik might sneak into the middle-order but he won't get a bowl, and Hafeez, who is our 5th bowler, can't even make the Indian B team. His bowling is rubbish without chucking and there are about 100 batsmen in India who are better than him.
India's 5th bowler (Pandya) is a good bowling option, even though his bowling is not as good as his batting.
Bumrah is better than Junaid and Raees and although Amir's best is better than Bumrah's, he doesn't seem capable of giving his best unless the stakes are very high, which is why Bumrah is a more consistent performer because he bends his back every game.
Shami is also a very good bowler who will easily make into our ODI XI ahead of Junaid, Raees or Shinwari, and Bhuvneshwar will probably get games ahead of these bowlers as well. Overall, the Indian bowling attack has an edge in my view.
Bhai I would take an attack of:
Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Shadab
Imad/Faheem
over
Bumrah
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Chahal
Pandya
Pakistan has the best ODI attack in the world. There’s a question mark over the 3rd seamer, but Rumman should make that his own.
Bumrah is better than Rumman only at death and Rumman isnt bad at death either.. Seeing both bowl Rumman is better at moving the bowl (can seam and swing both). It depends what sort of bowler you like, a stronger death bowler or a stronger new ball bowler..
Bumrah thrives when batsmen go after him.. Just play conventional shots against him against the new ball and he wont do much damage.. Indian batting more often than not score 270+ so opposition go after Bumrah...
Rumman is still relatively inexperienced. He’s only going to get better and better. I fully expect him to become a top bowler in the next year or two. The only advantage Bumrah has over him is pace.
Bhai I would take an attack of:
Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Shadab
Imad/Faheem
over
Bumrah
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Chahal
Pandya
Pakistan has the best ODI attack in the world. There’s a question mark over the 3rd seamer, but Rumman should make that his own.
Hasan is the best bowler between the two teams but apart from him, India have an edge. Their spin attack is superior than ours. Our only quality spinner is Shadab, but India have Yadav and Chahal who are both very good.
Imad won't get a game in India, Malik might sneak into the middle-order but he won't get a bowl, and Hafeez, who is our 5th bowler, can't even make the Indian B team. His bowling is rubbish without chucking and there are about 100 batsmen in India who are better than him.
India's 5th bowler (Pandya) is a good bowling option, even though his bowling is not as good as his batting.
Bumrah is better than Junaid and Raees and although Amir's best is better than Bumrah's, he doesn't seem capable of giving his best unless the stakes are very high, which is why Bumrah is a more consistent performer because he bends his back every game.
Shami is also a very good bowler who will easily make into our ODI XI ahead of Junaid, Raees or Shinwari, and Bhuvneshwar will probably get games ahead of these bowlers as well. Overall, the Indian bowling attack has an edge in my view.
No variety in Indian pace bowlingSo India was supposed to be better than Pakistan but they couldn't defend 280 at home![]()
The "best" bowling attach in the world can't defend 280 at home on turning tracks.![]()
Totally agree with him.
It's one of the best, if not the best attack.
Remember no Amir this series either.
This SL team is the worst ever ODI team I have seen from Sri Lanka. I don't think it's an achievement to demolish them. They were thrashed by Indian team and also beaten by Zim and BD at their backyard. Let's see how this team does once it meet better teams.
So by the same logic, India lost to Pakistan not because of their bowling but batting?India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
So by the same logic, India lost to Pakistan not because of their bowling but batting?
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
They lost because they had an off-day in all departments and we had a bit of luck as well to be fair.
So you could also say...
We lost the group stage encounter on June 4th because we had an off day in all departments and India had a bit of luck with Kohli and Yuvi being dropped and Amir and Wahab getting injured......
Otherwise we would have chased about 260
Mamoon bhai
Pakistan’s attack is better than India’s. This “superior spin attack” will be exposed once the novelty factor of the chinaman Yadav wears off. Anyway Shadab is better than both of their spinners.
Also our pacers are able to take wickets upfront and in the middle overs which India struggle to do. Bumrah and Bhuvi are good death bowlers but as today showed they are not as effective with the new ball or in the middle overs.
Amir > Bhuvi
Hasan > Bumrah
Junaid/Rumman > Pandya
India are better side than us and they don't need luck or us to have an off-day to beat us. Let me put it this way: India, Australia, South Africa and England will beat Pakistan 7/10 times.
As long as these teams are firing on all cylinders, they will be too strong for us. We can beat them every once in a while if we catch them on their off-days and have a bit of luck, which is what happened in the Champions Trophy.
and how many ODI series has Pakistan won against quality sides in the last 7 years? if that doesn't ring bell then I don't think anything will. Champions trophy win was due to great hardwork of bowlers but that has kind of hide our weaknesses in the batting line up which has been the reason why we have been one of the worst ODI side of last 7 years.Yeah but you can only judge a team on who they are playing in front of you.
This team is not just beating SL but smashing them apart.
That said there's always room for improvements. Maybe one big hitter down the order.
I doubt Australia, South Africa and England would beat Pakistan in the UAE 7/10 times. We would choke them with spin like India does at home. Beating them in their own backyards would be difficult but i would definitely expect an improvement over what happened last year with the 4-1 in England and Australia. It would be much closer now that we don’t have ttfs like Wahab who are compulsive match losers.
The only country Pakistan has won an ODI series against in UAE is Sri Lanka. Even NZ have beaten us comprehensively when they toured UAE. Pakistan's bowling has always been decent..It's the batting which has always struggled.I doubt Australia, South Africa and England would beat Pakistan in the UAE 7/10 times. We would choke them with spin like India does at home. Beating them in their own backyards would be difficult but i would definitely expect an improvement over what happened last year with the 4-1 in England and Australia. It would be much closer now that we don’t have ttfs like Wahab who are compulsive match losers.
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
We were not able to choke these teams in the UAE with spin when we had Ajmal and Hafeez chucking at their best. Our spin bowling attack today is no match to our spin attack of that era. Our batting is not powerful enough to overpower the India, Australian, English and South African batting lineup over the course of a series.
In that era these teams also had different batsmen. Right now i believe that the current crop of players are one of the worst in terms of playing spin.
We saw how much England struggled on a slow Cardiff wicket in the CT.
The challenge is glorify Kohli while also downplaying the failure of the Indian bowling attack. Challenge accepted, it seems.![]()
Kohli played a terrific innings today. A shame that no one could play a half-decent one. The Indian bowlers could have done better of course, but Latham and Taylor were superb.
and how many ODI series has Pakistan won against quality sides in the last 7 years? if that doesn't ring bell then I don't think anything will. Champions trophy win was due to great hardwork of bowlers but that has kind of hide our weaknesses in the batting line up which has been the reason why we have been one of the worst ODI side of last 7 years.
SA,Aus,Ind or Eng will win against us the moment they post 280 odd runs against our batting line up. That's how poor our batting is and every one is happy since we are champions trophy winner so everything must be perfect.
Kohli played a superb knock but Pakistan would have defended that total on pitch with their second string attack. The Indian bowlers look good when things are going their way but once they are put under pressure by a budding partnership, they fall apart.
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] you called it that Mamoon will come and make excusesIndia lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
This bowling attack has not been tested yet. SL is a minnow level ODI side today and the CT was just a few games. The next year or so will tell us more. We have some tough ODI series coming up.
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] you called it that Mamoon will come and make excuses)
In that era these teams also had different batsmen. Right now i believe that the current crop of players are one of the worst in terms of playing spin.
We saw how much England struggled on a slow Cardiff wicket in the CT. Also how Australia completely collapsed vs India.
Who to believe here...![]()
For a very good bowling attack, India sure is conceding a lot of runs almost every match. India should have defended 280 on a slow pitch today. Their spinners were not good enough to take wickets in the middle-orders. Jadeja is better than Chahal and Yadav put together. India will lose 98% of the matches their spinners DO NOT fire in. I said before the CT final and thats exactly what happened. Dhoni had perfected the tactic of choking run-scoring effectively with Ashwin and Jadeja, which is why Indian bowling looked more than decent. Kohli has introduced this confused mixture of pace and spin, where the pacers are just not good enough to win India games on their own.India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.
The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.
However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.
Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
I said it before and I'll say it again, Kholi is not a great captain. His undefeated streak in Tests is due to spinning teams in a web at home. At least he does his job and scores runs, same can't be said about the others in the playing XI.For a very good bowling attack, India sure is conceding a lot of runs almost every match. India should have defended 280 on a slow pitch today. Their spinners were not good enough to take wickets in the middle-orders. Jadeja is better than Chahal and Yadav put together. India will lose 98% of the matches their spinners DO NOT fire in. I said before the CT final and thats exactly what happened. Dhoni had perfected the tactic of choking run-scoring effectively with Ashwin and Jadeja, which is why Indian bowling looked more than decent. Kohli has introduced this confused mixture of pace and spin, where the pacers are just not good enough to win India games on their own.
India is heavily reliant on Kohli, to a lesser extent Dhawan and the choice of their spinners. The day even two of these factors fall apart, they will lose.
That was a one-off. England will beat us in the UAE in a series.
Imad, Malik and Hafeez (when he is bowling and not practicing for the Olympics) are not going to choke anyone. Shadab is quality but a leg-spinner is mostly an expensive option in Limited Overs.
Proved it again today.
They are def one of the best attacks.
Is there anything left Under?Don't underestimate BD.
Usman Shinwari > entire population of India when it comes to bowling.
How fast is he?
Now that Shinwari has picked up a fifer we have the best bowling attack ever known to mankind spearheaded by Shinwari
Upgrade on Junaid who is headed for a spot on the bench![]()
Usman Shinwari > entire population of India when it comes to bowling.
So fickle minded people on this ForumUsman Shinwari > entire population of India when it comes to bowling.
So fickle minded people on this Forum
Shinwari career was declared to be over
After World XI matches now he is Legend
So fickle minded people on this Forum
Shinwari career was declared to be over
After World XI matches now he is Legend
We don't have a single decent left arm fast bowler this makes me jealous
Love how one line can get so many Indians in a twist.
Relax.
Remember the India 10:0 Pakistan ICC faceoff record? Wonder how one CT Final match would change everything and make our Pak brothers forget the previous records against India in ICC events?