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"Our ODI bowling attack is one of the best in the world" : Sarfaraz Ahmed

THere you go. You don't really have any sample. Axar who is not even 3rd choice spinner is in top 10 ranking. It is what it is. Pakistan burden is carried by Hasan Ali at this point. He picked up boat load of wickets this year for Pakistan. Rest of the bowlers sure chip in. But they will struggle in Hasan's absence. Bit like How India's batting depends on top 3.
Right, so if we don't have a big enough sample size, how did you come up with that 'struggle' part?
 
In Asian conditions (which means half the times), BD has one of the best attack. Maybe we are 5th behind India but that is as low as we'll go.

Well, an Asian country having one of the best attack in Asia is not going to add much when it comes to ranking bowling units in world.

5 Highest ranking bowlers right now from BD who could possibly form your attack,

Shakib - 19
Mortaza - 21
Rahman - 30
Rubel - 61
Taskin - 75

India, NZ , SA, Eng & Aus have 3 bowlers each in top 20 rank. Pakistan has just one bowler in top 20, but they are surely ahead of BD..

Now, don't tell me some random names who are not up there in rank due to being new in BD bowling line up. If they are new, then wait few years till they do something to get rated.
 
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Sarfraz being his humble self.. Its the best bowling attack bhai.. bowling attack here includes captain utilizing the available sources to the best too..

Aus comes close to Pak but they don't have decent spinners as we saw recently in India..
 
We are riding on the coattails of Hasan and to an extent Shadab, who are papering over the cracks. Hasan is fantastic but at some point he will go through a lean patch as well, and that is where our bowling is going to struggle because the other options don't look good enough to be considered best in the world.

South Africa and India have more well rounded attacks and they don't really have any particular weak-links in their attacks. Secondly, our bowling still has a lot to prove on proper batting pitches. Our attack is tailor-made for low scoring pitches like the UAE etc., but they are not yet tested in places like Australia, South Africa, NZ etc., and although we did it a few times in England in the CT, but it had a lot to do with SA and India having off-days and England struggling on a slow Cardiff pitch.

It is certainly a very good attack but it is not best in the world.

Ma Sha Allah your logic is amazing. Our bowling gets the opposition out for a low score 4/5 games but we did it a few times. Whereas your team india bowling attack couldn't defend 320+ against SL. You are making excuses for every single team, SA and india had off days, England got slow pitch blah blah blah. [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]
 
Ma Sha Allah your logic is amazing. Our bowling gets the opposition out for a low score 4/5 games but we did it a few times. Whereas your team india bowling attack couldn't defend 320+ against SL. You are making excuses for every single team, SA and india had off days, England got slow pitch blah blah blah. [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

i like mamoon for hi insight on different things but he always underestimate pakistan i dunno ehy...snd sometimes he goes to the other level which looks awkward,,,iwe are not saying that pakistan is the best bowling side but we are one of the best...
 
Ma Sha Allah your logic is amazing. Our bowling gets the opposition out for a low score 4/5 games but we did it a few times. Whereas your team india bowling attack couldn't defend 320+ against SL. You are making excuses for every single team, SA and india had off days, England got slow pitch blah blah blah. [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Hasan is the best bowler between the two teams but apart from him, India have an edge. Their spin attack is superior than ours. Our only quality spinner is Shadab, but India have Yadav and Chahal who are both very good.

Imad won't get a game in India, Malik might sneak into the middle-order but he won't get a bowl, and Hafeez, who is our 5th bowler, can't even make the Indian B team. His bowling is rubbish without chucking and there are about 100 batsmen in India who are better than him.

India's 5th bowler (Pandya) is a good bowling option, even though his bowling is not as good as his batting.

Bumrah is better than Junaid and Raees and although Amir's best is better than Bumrah's, he doesn't seem capable of giving his best unless the stakes are very high, which is why Bumrah is a more consistent performer because he bends his back every game.

Shami is also a very good bowler who will easily make into our ODI XI ahead of Junaid, Raees or Shinwari, and Bhuvneshwar will probably get games ahead of these bowlers as well. Overall, the Indian bowling attack has an edge in my view.
 
Hasan is the best bowler between the two teams but apart from him, India have an edge. Their spin attack is superior than ours. Our only quality spinner is Shadab, but India have Yadav and Chahal who are both very good.

Imad won't get a game in India, Malik might sneak into the middle-order but he won't get a bowl, and Hafeez, who is our 5th bowler, can't even make the Indian B team. His bowling is rubbish without chucking and there are about 100 batsmen in India who are better than him.

India's 5th bowler (Pandya) is a good bowling option, even though his bowling is not as good as his batting.

Bumrah is better than Junaid and Raees and although Amir's best is better than Bumrah's, he doesn't seem capable of giving his best unless the stakes are very high, which is why Bumrah is a more consistent performer because he bends his back every game.

Shami is also a very good bowler who will easily make into our ODI XI ahead of Junaid, Raees or Shinwari, and Bhuvneshwar will probably get games ahead of these bowlers as well. Overall, the Indian bowling attack has an edge in my view.

Bhai I would take an attack of:

Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Shadab
Imad/Faheem

over

Bumrah
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Chahal
Pandya

Pakistan has the best ODI attack in the world. There’s a question mark over the 3rd seamer, but Rumman should make that his own.
 
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Bhai I would take an attack of:

Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Shadab
Imad/Faheem

over

Bumrah
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Chahal
Pandya

Pakistan has the best ODI attack in the world. There’s a question mark over the 3rd seamer, but Rumman should make that his own.

Bumrah is better than Rumman only at death and Rumman isnt bad at death either.. Seeing both bowl Rumman is better at moving the bowl (can seam and swing both). It depends what sort of bowler you like, a stronger death bowler or a stronger new ball bowler..

Bumrah thrives when batsmen go after him.. Just play conventional shots against him against the new ball and he wont do much damage.. Indian batting more often than not score 270+ so opposition go after Bumrah...
 
Bumrah is better than Rumman only at death and Rumman isnt bad at death either.. Seeing both bowl Rumman is better at moving the bowl (can seam and swing both). It depends what sort of bowler you like, a stronger death bowler or a stronger new ball bowler..

Bumrah thrives when batsmen go after him.. Just play conventional shots against him against the new ball and he wont do much damage.. Indian batting more often than not score 270+ so opposition go after Bumrah...

Rumman is still relatively inexperienced. He’s only going to get better and better. I fully expect him to become a top bowler in the next year or two. The only advantage Bumrah has over him is pace.
 
Rumman is still relatively inexperienced. He’s only going to get better and better. I fully expect him to become a top bowler in the next year or two. The only advantage Bumrah has over him is pace.

Although I think there are 2-3 better first choice pacers in Pakistan (but they are not in contention now due to our bowling as a whole doing well) than Rumman but Rumman deserves a place above Junaid so he should be part of playing x1 over Junaid..
 
Bhai I would take an attack of:

Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Shadab
Imad/Faheem

over

Bumrah
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Chahal
Pandya

Pakistan has the best ODI attack in the world. There’s a question mark over the 3rd seamer, but Rumman should make that his own.

EXACTLY
Amir>bhuvi
Hasan>bumrah
Rumman>pandya
Shadab>chahal
Imad < kuldeep
 
Hasan is the best bowler between the two teams but apart from him, India have an edge. Their spin attack is superior than ours. Our only quality spinner is Shadab, but India have Yadav and Chahal who are both very good.

Imad won't get a game in India, Malik might sneak into the middle-order but he won't get a bowl, and Hafeez, who is our 5th bowler, can't even make the Indian B team. His bowling is rubbish without chucking and there are about 100 batsmen in India who are better than him.

India's 5th bowler (Pandya) is a good bowling option, even though his bowling is not as good as his batting.

Bumrah is better than Junaid and Raees and although Amir's best is better than Bumrah's, he doesn't seem capable of giving his best unless the stakes are very high, which is why Bumrah is a more consistent performer because he bends his back every game.

Shami is also a very good bowler who will easily make into our ODI XI ahead of Junaid, Raees or Shinwari, and Bhuvneshwar will probably get games ahead of these bowlers as well. Overall, the Indian bowling attack has an edge in my view.

The "best" bowling attach in the world can't defend 280 at home on turning tracks. :inti
 
[MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] bro our discussion in afternoon:)
Indian team is missing strike pace bowlers.. Bumrah and Bhuveshnar are death bowlers but lack impact with new bowl and in middle overs... how can such a bowling attack be better than Pakistan ?
 
Our bowling line up will be tested when we play consistently against Australia, India, South Africa, England and New Zealand. If our bowling line up consistently does well against those teams in lets say 7-8 matches out of 10 then only will i rate them.
 
So India was supposed to be better than Pakistan but they couldn't defend 280 at home :srt
 
So India was supposed to be better than Pakistan but they couldn't defend 280 at home :srt
No variety in Indian pace bowling
India neither has good Left arm pacers
Nor they play them well
This bowling will be destroyed by South Africa
 
The "best" bowling attach in the world can't defend 280 at home on turning tracks. :inti

India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
 
Totally agree with him.

It's one of the best, if not the best attack.

Remember no Amir this series either.

This SL team is the worst ever ODI team I have seen from Sri Lanka. I don't think it's an achievement to demolish them. They were thrashed by Indian team and also beaten by Zim and BD at their backyard. Let's see how this team does once it meet better teams.
 
This SL team is the worst ever ODI team I have seen from Sri Lanka. I don't think it's an achievement to demolish them. They were thrashed by Indian team and also beaten by Zim and BD at their backyard. Let's see how this team does once it meet better teams.

Yeah but you can only judge a team on who they are playing in front of you.

This team is not just beating SL but smashing them apart.

That said there's always room for improvements. Maybe one big hitter down the order.
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
So by the same logic, India lost to Pakistan not because of their bowling but batting?
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.

It must have been a depressing day.

Don't worry India are still a decent team. But not as good as your hype suggests.
 
So by the same logic, India lost to Pakistan not because of their bowling but batting?

They lost because they had an off-day in all departments and we had a bit of luck as well to be fair.
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.

Mamoon bhai

Pakistan’s attack is better than India’s. This “superior spin attack” will be exposed once the novelty factor of the chinaman Yadav wears off. Anyway Shadab is better than both of their spinners.

Also our pacers are able to take wickets upfront and in the middle overs which India struggle to do. Bumrah and Bhuvi are good death bowlers but as today showed they are not as effective with the new ball or in the middle overs.

Amir > Bhuvi
Hasan > Bumrah
Junaid/Rumman > Pandya
 
They lost because they had an off-day in all departments and we had a bit of luck as well to be fair.

So you could also say...
We lost the group stage encounter on June 4th because we had an off day in all departments and India had a bit of luck with Kohli and Yuvi being dropped and Amir and Wahab getting injured......

Otherwise we would have chased about 260
 
So you could also say...
We lost the group stage encounter on June 4th because we had an off day in all departments and India had a bit of luck with Kohli and Yuvi being dropped and Amir and Wahab getting injured......

Otherwise we would have chased about 260

India are better side than us and they don't need luck or us to have an off-day to beat us. Let me put it this way: India, Australia, South Africa and England will beat Pakistan 7/10 times.

As long as these teams are firing on all cylinders, they will be too strong for us. We can beat them every once in a while if we catch them on their off-days and have a bit of luck, which is what happened in the Champions Trophy.
 
Mamoon bhai

Pakistan’s attack is better than India’s. This “superior spin attack” will be exposed once the novelty factor of the chinaman Yadav wears off. Anyway Shadab is better than both of their spinners.

Also our pacers are able to take wickets upfront and in the middle overs which India struggle to do. Bumrah and Bhuvi are good death bowlers but as today showed they are not as effective with the new ball or in the middle overs.

Amir > Bhuvi
Hasan > Bumrah
Junaid/Rumman > Pandya

When their spin attack gets exposed for its novelty we will see. Nothing is permanent of course, if Pakistan finds another top pacer or another quality spinner it will surpass India's attack. However, at the moment, we have a lot of excess baggage in our bowling attack in the form of Imad, Hafeez, Malik and Junaid, who are riding on the great performances of Hasan and Shadab.
 
India are better side than us and they don't need luck or us to have an off-day to beat us. Let me put it this way: India, Australia, South Africa and England will beat Pakistan 7/10 times.

As long as these teams are firing on all cylinders, they will be too strong for us. We can beat them every once in a while if we catch them on their off-days and have a bit of luck, which is what happened in the Champions Trophy.

I doubt Australia, South Africa and England would beat Pakistan in the UAE 7/10 times. We would choke them with spin like India does at home. Beating them in their own backyards would be difficult but i would definitely expect an improvement over what happened last year with the 4-1 in England and Australia. It would be much closer now that we don’t have ttfs like Wahab who are compulsive match losers.
 
Yeah but you can only judge a team on who they are playing in front of you.

This team is not just beating SL but smashing them apart.

That said there's always room for improvements. Maybe one big hitter down the order.
and how many ODI series has Pakistan won against quality sides in the last 7 years? if that doesn't ring bell then I don't think anything will. Champions trophy win was due to great hardwork of bowlers but that has kind of hide our weaknesses in the batting line up which has been the reason why we have been one of the worst ODI side of last 7 years.

SA,Aus,Ind or Eng will win against us the moment they post 280 odd runs against our batting line up. That's how poor our batting is and every one is happy since we are champions trophy winner so everything must be perfect.
 
I doubt Australia, South Africa and England would beat Pakistan in the UAE 7/10 times. We would choke them with spin like India does at home. Beating them in their own backyards would be difficult but i would definitely expect an improvement over what happened last year with the 4-1 in England and Australia. It would be much closer now that we don’t have ttfs like Wahab who are compulsive match losers.

We were not able to choke these teams in the UAE with spin when we had Ajmal and Hafeez chucking at their best. Our spin bowling attack today is no match to our spin attack of that era. Our batting is not powerful enough to overpower the India, Australian, English and South African batting lineup over the course of a series.
 
I doubt Australia, South Africa and England would beat Pakistan in the UAE 7/10 times. We would choke them with spin like India does at home. Beating them in their own backyards would be difficult but i would definitely expect an improvement over what happened last year with the 4-1 in England and Australia. It would be much closer now that we don’t have ttfs like Wahab who are compulsive match losers.
The only country Pakistan has won an ODI series against in UAE is Sri Lanka. Even NZ have beaten us comprehensively when they toured UAE. Pakistan's bowling has always been decent..It's the batting which has always struggled.
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.

The challenge is glorify Kohli while also downplaying the failure of the Indian bowling attack. Challenge accepted, it seems. ;)
 
We were not able to choke these teams in the UAE with spin when we had Ajmal and Hafeez chucking at their best. Our spin bowling attack today is no match to our spin attack of that era. Our batting is not powerful enough to overpower the India, Australian, English and South African batting lineup over the course of a series.

In that era these teams also had different batsmen. Right now i believe that the current crop of players are one of the worst in terms of playing spin.

We saw how much England struggled on a slow Cardiff wicket in the CT. Also how Australia completely collapsed vs India.
 
In that era these teams also had different batsmen. Right now i believe that the current crop of players are one of the worst in terms of playing spin.

We saw how much England struggled on a slow Cardiff wicket in the CT.

That was a one-off. England will beat us in the UAE in a series.

Imad, Malik and Hafeez (when he is bowling and not practicing for the Olympics) are not going to choke anyone. Shadab is quality but a leg-spinner is mostly an expensive option in Limited Overs.
 
The challenge is glorify Kohli while also downplaying the failure of the Indian bowling attack. Challenge accepted, it seems. ;)


Kohli played a terrific innings today. A shame that no one could play a half-decent one. The Indian bowlers could have done better of course, but Latham and Taylor were superb.
 
Amir, at his best, is better than any Asian ODI bowler. Hassan is better than any Asian bowler even on his off-days. Junaid and Raees will walk into any Asian ODI team as the second or third seamer, if not the first. Shadab, Imad and Hafeez are as good as India and Sri Lanka's spin attack while we also have some decent back-up options like Wahab Riaz, Usman Shinwari and Sohail Khan.

The debate about best in the world is open but there are no doubts about which Asian team has the best bowling attack. Hint: It's not India.
 
Kohli played a terrific innings today. A shame that no one could play a half-decent one. The Indian bowlers could have done better of course, but Latham and Taylor were superb.

Kohli played a superb knock but Pakistan would have defended that total on pitch with their second string attack. The Indian bowlers look good when things are going their way but once they are put under pressure by a budding partnership, they fall apart.
 
and how many ODI series has Pakistan won against quality sides in the last 7 years? if that doesn't ring bell then I don't think anything will. Champions trophy win was due to great hardwork of bowlers but that has kind of hide our weaknesses in the batting line up which has been the reason why we have been one of the worst ODI side of last 7 years.

SA,Aus,Ind or Eng will win against us the moment they post 280 odd runs against our batting line up. That's how poor our batting is and every one is happy since we are champions trophy winner so everything must be perfect.

The last year the makeup of this ODI team has changed - new coach, new captain and plenty of fresh new players that are playing or at least attempting to play a more modern aggressive brand of cricket.

You don't win a world tournament by fluke - you have to be good enough to beat top teams. This has continued in this series against SL.

Does this team still have flaws ?? Yes of course but it's a far cry from the mediocre going nowhere approach mindset 18 months ago.

If you can't see this new dynamism or are just waiting for the team to start losing to prove a point then there is nothing more to say.
 
Kohli played a superb knock but Pakistan would have defended that total on pitch with their second string attack. The Indian bowlers look good when things are going their way but once they are put under pressure by a budding partnership, they fall apart.

This bowling attack has not been tested yet. SL is a minnow level ODI side today and the CT was just a few games. The next year or so will tell us more. We have some tough ODI series coming up.
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] you called it that Mamoon will come and make excuses :)))
 
This bowling attack has not been tested yet. SL is a minnow level ODI side today and the CT was just a few games. The next year or so will tell us more. We have some tough ODI series coming up.

This minnow level team scored 300 a few times against India. How many matches is your analysis on the Indian bowling attack based on?
 
india has better bowling than they had before but not better than pakistan,they need 2 goodfast bowlers to compete .
 
In that era these teams also had different batsmen. Right now i believe that the current crop of players are one of the worst in terms of playing spin.

We saw how much England struggled on a slow Cardiff wicket in the CT. Also how Australia completely collapsed vs India.

England struggles whenever a pitch offers something to bowlers.
 
Who to believe here... :irfan

Well let me say if I can help you...

One of the posters you quoted called Ashwin an "ATG Bradman of bowling" yet we all saw what happened in the CT final and now he is not even in the Indian ODI starting XI.

Hope that helped! :)
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]
 
India lost today not because of their bowling but because of their batting. The pitch was slow in the first innings but Kohli was the only who dug his heels. With a bit of support he would have propelled India to 310-320 which would have been a defendable total.

The pitch quickened in the second innings and the Kiwi batsmen were able to play through the line. It was more about the brilliant batting by Latham and Taylor rather than poor bowling by India. Anyhow, a few matches doesn't tell us much. This is undoubtedly a very good bowling attack, but it is their batting that is becoming a worry.

However, I would say that South Africa have the best bowling attack at the moment, not India. I would put India at two and a nose ahead of Pakistan because of a superior spin attack.

Pakistani fans are getting too carried away with a few games in the CT and a series against a sorry SL side. I suspect that a much needed reality check is around the corner.
For a very good bowling attack, India sure is conceding a lot of runs almost every match. India should have defended 280 on a slow pitch today. Their spinners were not good enough to take wickets in the middle-orders. Jadeja is better than Chahal and Yadav put together. India will lose 98% of the matches their spinners DO NOT fire in. I said before the CT final and thats exactly what happened. Dhoni had perfected the tactic of choking run-scoring effectively with Ashwin and Jadeja, which is why Indian bowling looked more than decent. Kohli has introduced this confused mixture of pace and spin, where the pacers are just not good enough to win India games on their own.

India is heavily reliant on Kohli, to a lesser extent Dhawan and the choice of their spinners. The day even two of these factors fall apart, they will lose.
 
For a very good bowling attack, India sure is conceding a lot of runs almost every match. India should have defended 280 on a slow pitch today. Their spinners were not good enough to take wickets in the middle-orders. Jadeja is better than Chahal and Yadav put together. India will lose 98% of the matches their spinners DO NOT fire in. I said before the CT final and thats exactly what happened. Dhoni had perfected the tactic of choking run-scoring effectively with Ashwin and Jadeja, which is why Indian bowling looked more than decent. Kohli has introduced this confused mixture of pace and spin, where the pacers are just not good enough to win India games on their own.

India is heavily reliant on Kohli, to a lesser extent Dhawan and the choice of their spinners. The day even two of these factors fall apart, they will lose.
I said it before and I'll say it again, Kholi is not a great captain. His undefeated streak in Tests is due to spinning teams in a web at home. At least he does his job and scores runs, same can't be said about the others in the playing XI.
 
Good variety in the attack with pace, swing, seam and spin. Has the makings of a very potent attack with some tougher assignments ahead,
 
When you have 3rd choice bench strength like Shinwari I think it's safe to say we've got the Best Bowling Attack in the world in LOI cricket.
 
ODI series against new zealand, england, aussies and Saffers in next 15 months we will soon see how good this attack is.
 
Now that Shinwari has picked up a fifer we have the best bowling attack ever known to mankind spearheaded by Shinwari
 
That was a one-off. England will beat us in the UAE in a series.

Imad, Malik and Hafeez (when he is bowling and not practicing for the Olympics) are not going to choke anyone. Shadab is quality but a leg-spinner is mostly an expensive option in Limited Overs.

You can't be serious... If you were saying they'd beat us in England I could Agree with you, but now you're just being ridiculous.

We choked England in that 1st odi in 2015 with Anwar Ali of all people, you think we wouldn't be able to win a series with Hasan, shadab, Imad, Amir? What a joke 😂
 
India has a decent attack but they need a better spinner than Chahal and need Shami to come back and be at his best, even then, they wouldn't be as good as Pakistan. Bhuvneshwar is just an okay bowler and bumrah is good but he can not do it himself, he needs support.
 
Proved it again today.

They are def one of the best attacks.

Loving this ODI attack. However I would be cautious. We havent played our dreaded nemesis the aussies yet. They just find ways of beating us and I'm sure they'll find a way to beat us again. Our batting is the achilles heal.
 
When the reserve bowler is as good as Shinwari, only an idiot would bet against the Pakistani attack.
 
Upgrade on Junaid who is headed for a spot on the bench :junaid

Loving the competition. Will ensure that everyone raises their game.

The only bowler with a confirmed spot in the team is Hassan Ali. Nobody else can afford to be lax.
 
So fickle minded people on this Forum
Shinwari career was declared to be over
After World XI matches now he is Legend

People are over-passionate and zealous immediately after victory. Let a day or two to pass and then khoon will be thanda and saner opinions will emerge.
 
So fickle minded people on this Forum
Shinwari career was declared to be over
After World XI matches now he is Legend


What are you on about?

Some people were saying giving him another chance, some did want him dropped but those posters aren't calling him a legend anyway.
 
Pakistan's ODI bowling attack's success rings hollow - Why not the same success in Tests?

Over a period of say 1 and half years, we've done well in ODI's as far as taming the best ODI batsmen but for me personally our bowling prowess rings hollow. For starters, if our attack was that good to be compared to say the era of the two W's, we would have had enjoyed the same success in Test cricket as well. I don't have real numbers with me but its quite apparent that we haven't had the same penetration as we had in ODI's. So, even though I would agree with Sarfaraz's assessment that our bowling can be termed the best in the world, there is that fear that it might be something transient. Maybe the opposition batters haven't had a proper look at our new crop bowlers, namely Hassan Ali, Rumman Raese and Shahdab Khan. If anything, there is this confusion between either the batsmen haven't seen enough of bowlers or, a counter argument could be, our bowlers haven't had enough Test match experience to be more effective in Tests.

Please pitch in with your thoughts.
 
Pakistan's bowling lacks the penetration required for Test matches probably. But some of their bowlers (mainly Amir who played decisive role in CT finals) can come up with brilliant deliveries in ODIs which can pick wickets who are looking out for runs (same deliveries can be negotiated in Test matches, after which these bowlers lack the patience to sustain pressure) Actually the reason for success in ODIs is because of batsmen (blooding fresh talents). These batsmen need a long way to get matured in Test Matches....
 
We have the best bowling in the world: Sarfraz

At the end of the five-match One-Day International series, the verdict was out: It was Pakistan's outstanding bowling that made the difference as the home side beat Sri Lanka 5-0 after winning the final game in Sharjah on Monday (October 23) by nine wickets.

Pakistan found another wicket-taking left-arm pacer in Usman Shinwari, who rocked the Sri Lankans with figures of 5 for 34 in seven overs. At one stage, Shinwari had 5 for 12 from 21 balls. Sri Lanka never recovered and finished on 103. Pakistan knocked off the runs in 20.2 overs.

The win gave Pakistan its sixth 5-0 series whitewash and ninth consecutive ODI win, a run that had started during the ICC Champions Trophy 2017 in June this year.

“I have been saying this, that we have the best bowling in the world and the fact that when you give an opportunity to someone and he performs, it’s great,” said Sarfraz Ahmed, the Pakistan captain, of the 23-year-old Shinwari.

“I threw the ball to him and he attacked from the word go. Usman finished the match in the first five overs. We're going from strength to strength, we have lots of options. I want our batting to perform more; if we score 270-280, our bowling is strong enough to defend that.”

Sarfraz lauded his bowlers for not letting the absence of Mohammad Amir hurt the team. “We did not have Amir due to injury but Shinwari filled that gap and throughout this series we did well with the ball and this is a great sign for us,” he said.

Pakistan has not allowed any of its opponents to cross 250 in the nine-match winning streak. The last time it had conceded more runs was in the ICC Champions Trophy 2017 opener, when India beat it after scoring 319 for 3. The pick of the bowlers has been Hasan Ali, who has been in great form, taking 14 wickets in this five-match series to go to the top of the International Cricket Council rankings for ODI bowlers. Shadab Khan, the young leg-spinner, has also been outstanding with 10 wickets.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/500269
 
Remember the India 10:0 Pakistan ICC faceoff record? Wonder how one CT Final match would change everything and make our Pak brothers forget the previous records against India in ICC events?

Haha Why just the ICC events, ??. Go to any place that keep stats and check the Record between India & Pakistan. Pakistan has beaten India 73 times while India only 52 times. a Huge gap of 21 wins. That is the real Record. Tweaked records like ICC tournaments is same as someone only considering the wins like the 73 that Pakistan won.
 
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