What's new

Pakistan’s real problem is that there are just too many mouths to feed…

Ahmad-GERMANFC

Ahmad-GERMANFC

Local Club Regular
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Runs
1,653
Our population just keeps on growing.

If you look at population growth rate in last 50 years we are the among the highest among the top 10 populations. Only Nigeria is close:

Population growth in last 50 years:
China: 61.7%
India: 131.7%
USA: 64.0%
Russia: 9.3%
Indonesia: 122.6%
Japan: 12.4%
Brazil: 108.8%
Germany: 5.9%
Bangladesh: 143.1% (in 1972 they had 7 million more people than Pakistan and now they have 70 million less people)
Pakistan: 274.1%
Nigeria: 275.5%

Why is no one talking about this seriously.
 
The Problem is one of resource distribution not population growth.
 
One child policy is the way to go for both India and Pakistan
 
Another reason is low female participation in workforce. Pakistan is 21% and Bangladesh is 35%
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
Another reason is low female participation in workforce. Pakistan is 21% and Bangladesh is 35%
Click to expand...

[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] has constantly pointed out the out of school children in Pakistan and he gets ignored, that would be the easiest way to reduce population.

India’s fertility rate has decreased even with lesser women in workforce than BD.. because of education.. having women workforce is great for economy but population control can happen through education itself, women workforce is probably next phase..
 
Hitman said:
One child policy is the way to go for both India and Pakistan
Click to expand...

Nah india is good going forward population growth wise. In fact south india has a population crisis because fertility levels are going below replacement levels
 
Exactly. I have spoken about the curse of population for years. I believe all of Pakistan’s problems would go away if Pakistan had half of its population.

Having studied Pakistan’s population in depth, there is a baby born every 4 second. Amongst Muslim countries, Pakistan has the fastest growing population barring Afghanistan. In Asia, Pakistan ranks number one population growth if we exclude Afghanistan.

Pakistan will never be able to reduce its population growth because the populace has been brainwashed into having a dozen kids and they lack any kind of critical thought. Clerics such as Tariq Masood regularly tell followers to have as many kids as possible regardless of their financial status as Allah will provide. This despicable belief is ingrained in every Pakistani mind. Mullah Tariq Masood has three wives and 19 kids himself!

Imran Khan after coming to power held a symposium on the need for reduction in population - but the whole country went up in arms saying that population control is a Western conspiracy and that the West wants to reduce Muslim numbers. There was widespread outrage throughout the country. Khan then dropped all potential population control initiatives.

All of my male relatives are unemployed and rely on remittances and live miserable lives but all of them have at least six kids because they say Allah would provide. One of them said to me ‘ See, I don’t have a job and have six kids, but my kids still have food to eat,’.

This is what we are facing! Hoards and hoards of sick minds!
 
This is a western conspiracy.

Have as many kids as you want.

Allah provides Rizq.
 
Don't breed if you can't feed. The equilibrium is lost in Third World, especially Muslim countries.
 
Disagree. If it wasnt for Pakistan's population growth there would hardly have been any economic growth in the country, you would have arrived at this same financial mess, only sooner in a smaller economy.

a growing population is an economic boon, nearly all of the western world developed from feudal or agrarian to industrial economies during high population growth.

the issues facing Pakistan are to do with the mismanagement of resources stemming from a lack of education (either academic or financial), a lack of entrepreneurialism, absolutely no understanding of the importance of the private sector in the national economy and an over-reliance on lecherous politicians.

a young amd growing population is vital for any country to bridge the gap from developing to developed, and every country on this path is fighting a demographic time bomb, because once u hit the point of inversion the likelihood of sustained exceptional economic growth is significantly diminished.

at no point in history have humans ever been so concerned with population levels, it was implicitly understood that technological advances would allow us to maintain larger populations, however, the level of pessimism will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if no one truly believes in human potential for technological advances anymore.
 
Bigger population should be a worry if there are not enough resources or no scope of creating that much resources. Is that the case with Pakistan?
 
ElRaja said:
Disagree. If it wasnt for Pakistan's population growth there would hardly have been any economic growth in the country, you would have arrived at this same financial mess, only sooner in a smaller economy.

a growing population is an economic boon, nearly all of the western world developed from feudal or agrarian to industrial economies during high population growth.

the issues facing Pakistan are to do with the mismanagement of resources stemming from a lack of education (either academic or financial), a lack of entrepreneurialism, absolutely no understanding of the importance of the private sector in the national economy and an over-reliance on lecherous politicians.

a young amd growing population is vital for any country to bridge the gap from developing to developed, and every country on this path is fighting a demographic time bomb, because once u hit the point of inversion the likelihood of sustained exceptional economic growth is significantly diminished.

at no point in history have humans ever been so concerned with population levels, it was implicitly understood that technological advances would allow us to maintain larger populations, however, the level of pessimism will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if no one truly believes in human potential for technological advances anymore.
Click to expand...

While I agree that population growth is not by itself an issue, to have a complusive increase in population with declining economic situation is not just dumb, it is potentially lethal for the civilization. The kind of imbalance it would create is beyond realms of control. Median age of Pakistan is 23 years and 50 % of the children are out of school. So what was the hope or thinking behind spawning these kids one after another when the situation is not becoming prosperous. It is being done by sheer ignorance.

Population like this doesn't lead to prosperity.
 
ElRaja said:
Disagree. If it wasnt for Pakistan's population growth there would hardly have been any economic growth in the country, you would have arrived at this same financial mess, only sooner in a smaller economy.

a growing population is an economic boon, nearly all of the western world developed from feudal or agrarian to industrial economies during high population growth.

the issues facing Pakistan are to do with the mismanagement of resources stemming from a lack of education (either academic or financial), a lack of entrepreneurialism, absolutely no understanding of the importance of the private sector in the national economy and an over-reliance on lecherous politicians.

a young amd growing population is vital for any country to bridge the gap from developing to developed, and every country on this path is fighting a demographic time bomb, because once u hit the point of inversion the likelihood of sustained exceptional economic growth is significantly diminished.

at no point in history have humans ever been so concerned with population levels, it was implicitly understood that technological advances would allow us to maintain larger populations, however, the level of pessimism will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if no one truly believes in human potential for technological advances anymore.
Click to expand...

Population growth is an asset if population is productive.

Population growth is liability if it's not productive.

Huge population is not really an asset for Pakistan if they are non-productive. When around half of kids are out of school then population growth is simply going to make situation worse. If they are well educated and productive then it would be different situation.
 
Rishi Sunak feeds most of the mouths in Pak.. that country would go to the dogs if it weren’t for Great British pound !!
 
Currently,

Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education

-------------------

Some poster may think that it's a huge population and that's why numbers are big, but that's not the case. Numbers are not big just due to population, it's big due to situation being so bad.

I don't have time to look up recent data for all countries but to put it in perspective,

Out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%

Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...school-who-should-be-attending-Primary-school

---------------------------

24% just balloons to around 45% because kids just drop out of school as they get older.


If a country has half it's future generation out of school then I think something is drastically wrong and focus should be to change it. It may take 10-15 years before results starts showing, but education is the biggest equalizer. Every child should have opportunity and as society we are simply taking it away by keeping these kids out of school.


As a poster pointed out, population could be driver to pull country forward, but it's never going to happen with half of the kids not attending school.
 
wasim-fan said:
While I agree that population growth is not by itself an issue, to have a complusive increase in population with declining economic situation is not just dumb, it is potentially lethal for the civilization. The kind of imbalance it would create is beyond realms of control. Median age of Pakistan is 23 years and 50 % of the children are out of school. So what was the hope or thinking behind spawning these kids one after another when the situation is not becoming prosperous. It is being done by sheer ignorance.

Population like this doesn't lead to prosperity.
Click to expand...

Buffet said:
Population growth is an asset if population is productive.

Population growth is liability if it's not productive.

Huge population is not really an asset for Pakistan if they are non-productive. When around half of kids are out of school then population growth is simply going to make situation worse. If they are well educated and productive then it would be different situation.
Click to expand...

yes the proportion of kids in school is small, but limiting the total number of kids will not increase that number nominally, you will still have the same amount of kids being economically productive ten or twenty years down the line. as ive said, a smaller population, by 10% or 15% will not fix pakistans structural issues. pakistan is not a socialist state, the educated few are not supporting hundreds of poor like developed world welfare states.

this is before we deal with the moral question of how anyone has a right to tell anyone how many kids they can have. in essence, you would end up with rich people having lots of kids, and poor people, those with the least access to contraception and family planning, aborting or abandoning unwanted kids for fear of legal recriminations.

this line of thinking is very simple because everyone wants to ignore the minutiae of the arguments which makes the practical implementation of such a policy, in my view, immoral, impractical, and arguably devoid of quantifiable benefits.

just because it produced some marginal benefits in china, a country which has a far different social fabric to Pakistan, is not a good enough argument considering what the consideration implies.

so my question to flip it around would be, firstly, does Pakistan have the resources to limit population growth, secondly, what would be the benefit from this exercise, and finally, how, in a Muslim country, will a government with zero moral authority dictate how many kids anyone has.
 
ElRaja said:
yes the proportion of kids in school is small, but limiting the total number of kids will not increase that number nominally, you will still have the same amount of kids being economically productive ten or twenty years down the line. as ive said, a smaller population, by 10% or 15% will not fix pakistans structural issues. pakistan is not a socialist state, the educated few are not supporting hundreds of poor like developed world welfare states.

this is before we deal with the moral question of how anyone has a right to tell anyone how many kids they can have. in essence, you would end up with rich people having lots of kids, and poor people, those with the least access to contraception and family planning, aborting or abandoning unwanted kids for fear of legal recriminations.

this line of thinking is very simple because everyone wants to ignore the minutiae of the arguments which makes the practical implementation of such a policy, in my view, immoral, impractical, and arguably devoid of quantifiable benefits.

just because it produced some marginal benefits in china, a country which has a far different social fabric to Pakistan, is not a good enough argument considering what the consideration implies.

so my question to flip it around would be, firstly, does Pakistan have the resources to limit population growth, secondly, what would be the benefit from this exercise, and finally, how, in a Muslim country, will a government with zero moral authority dictate how many kids anyone has.
Click to expand...

No one has to force anything. It should happen organically.

Educated mothers have less number of kids.

Focusing on girls education is the key.

Girls ratio is higher than 44% when it comes to out of school.


As society gets richer, fertility rate drops. That has been the trend in every part of world in the last 100 years. I don't think rich will suddenly starts having more kids due to some policy.


Anyway, without getting into debate of population, I was only pointing out that population can be asset or liability depending on productivity level. In Pakistan's case it's liability so far. Having more population won't help at all unless population become more productive.
 
I thing you are very much on the wrong track here.

Allow Pakistani establishment to take control of New Zealand and see the country getting destroyed.

The real issues are corruption and injustice.
 
Here is some more data point related to trend,


Moms ages 40 to 44 who lack a high school diploma have about 2.9 children in their lifetimes, on average, while those with a high school diploma or some college have about 2.4 kids

The two-child family is the most common family type among moms with a high school diploma or more

Mom_Child.jpg

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/05/07/family-size-among-mothers/


----------------------------

Simply said, just have girls in high schools. Problem of population will be be solved very quickly. Pakistan is not different. Humans are same everywhere in their behavior.

Just allow girls to be in school and they will make choice. There is no need to have moral policing or any forced action which tells poor to have less kids or anything absurd.
 
Ah the malthusian theory the go to place for colonialists and genocidal racists. We are in a mess because of criminals and duffers. The US with 330 million consumes 25 percent of the worlds resources. We need to manage our resources and build our economy. Not follow Thanos.
 
Buffet said:
Here is some more data point related to trend,


Moms ages 40 to 44 who lack a high school diploma have about 2.9 children in their lifetimes, on average, while those with a high school diploma or some college have about 2.4 kids

The two-child family is the most common family type among moms with a high school diploma or more

View attachment 118943

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/05/07/family-size-among-mothers/


----------------------------

Simply said, just have girls in high schools. Problem of population will be be solved very quickly. Pakistan is not different. Humans are same everywhere in their behavior.

Just allow girls to be in school and they will make choice. There is no need to have moral policing or any forced action which tells poor to have less kids or anything absurd.
Click to expand...

If a Mother is less educated, then she is spending a lot of time at home being pregnant.
 
Buffet said:
Currently,

Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education

-------------------

Some poster may think that it's a huge population and that's why numbers are big, but that's not the case. Numbers are not big just due to population, it's big due to situation being so bad.

I don't have time to look up recent data for all countries but to put it in perspective,

Out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%

Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...school-who-should-be-attending-Primary-school

---------------------------

24% just balloons to around 45% because kids just drop out of school as they get older.


If a country has half it's future generation out of school then I think something is drastically wrong and focus should be to change it. It may take 10-15 years before results starts showing, but education is the biggest equalizer. Every child should have opportunity and as society we are simply taking it away by keeping these kids out of school.


As a poster pointed out, population could be driver to pull country forward, but it's never going to happen with half of the kids not attending school.
Click to expand...

And also you can make a regional breakdown, for instance in KPK, Sourhern Punjab and Balochistan I’m sure numbers are way higher than in Northern Punjab and Karachi.

So it’s those already the poorest who make tons of children who themselves don’t get an education, thus remain as poor and continue that cycle infinitely.

I don’t see any change to be honest, even a Mao Zedong type authoritarian wouldn’t dare it, he’d be inviting the rise of TTP like groups not only in ex-FATA or even wider KPK but the whole country basically as people would perceive it as a "threat to religion."
 
Mirpuri Don said:
And also you can make a regional breakdown, for instance in KPK, Sourhern Punjab and Balochistan I’m sure numbers are way higher than in Northern Punjab and Karachi.

So it’s those already the poorest who make tons of children who themselves don’t get an education, thus remain as poor and continue that cycle infinitely.

I don’t see any change to be honest, even a Mao Zedong type authoritarian wouldn’t dare it, he’d be inviting the rise of TTP like groups not only in ex-FATA or even wider KPK but the whole country basically as people would perceive it as a "threat to religion."
Click to expand...

I did not see break up of data north or south Punjab, but UNECEF had data at state level.

Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sindh and Baluchistan were lot worse than Punjab.

See below,


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ttending-Primary-school&p=7182491#post7182491
 
No population is not the problem. Corruption, mismanagement and dysfunctional government and institutions are the problem.
 
That's from how you look at it, problem is not too many mouths to feed its the unemployment lack of skills lack of planning from govt. Only 1/5 of the population has bank account not to mention how many use it for transaction, there is too much under the carpet stuff, the have and have nots comparison the fake system of taxes there is GST, PST but nor Elite Tax
 
Buffet said:
No one has to force anything. It should happen organically.

Educated mothers have less number of kids.

Focusing on girls education is the key.

Girls ratio is higher than 44% when it comes to out of school.


As society gets richer, fertility rate drops. That has been the trend in every part of world in the last 100 years. I don't think rich will suddenly starts having more kids due to some policy.


Anyway, without getting into debate of population, I was only pointing out that population can be asset or liability depending on productivity level. In Pakistan's case it's liability so far. Having more population won't help at all unless population become more productive.
Click to expand...

ok fair enough, i dont have a problem with that happening naturally, and it usually happens when the economy has developed to a certain level, otherwise it ends up like cuba, with a dead economy and weak demographics. i just haven't seen any evidence in this thread that pakistan's problems are explicitly due to over population.
 
the Great Khan said:
Ah the malthusian theory the go to place for colonialists and genocidal racists. We are in a mess because of criminals and duffers. The US with 330 million consumes 25 percent of the worlds resources. We need to manage our resources and build our economy. Not follow Thanos.
Click to expand...

This!
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
No it is population. We don’t produce enough to feed the bulging population despite yields being high in recent years prior to floods
Click to expand...

We don't produce enough feed, because there are acres of land not being used being hoarded by rich land owners. We don't want to bring in land reforms because these land owners and feudal landlords are the ones who bring in the votes.
 
At least Nigeria has the oil.

What does Pakistan have in terms of real resources to make it rich?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This is a western conspiracy.

Have as many kids as you want.

Allah provides Rizq.
Click to expand...

Well either Allah provides or doesn't. If there's a population expolosion then I guess there must be plentiful provisions otherwise the counry would have starved to death by now.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Well either Allah provides or doesn't. If there's a population expolosion then I guess there must be plentiful provisions otherwise the counry would have starved to death by now.
Click to expand...

Considering how many people are reduced to one meal a day it’s on the way
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Well either Allah provides or doesn't. If there's a population expolosion then I guess there must be plentiful provisions otherwise the counry would have starved to death by now.
Click to expand...

Malnutrition is rising and I think Pakistan has the highest number of stunted children in Asia.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Malnutrition is rising and I think Pakistan has the highest number of stunted children in Asia.
Click to expand...

42% of children are malnourished. A shocking stat but this will not keep people from procreating more and more and more.
 
saeedhk said:
42% of children are malnourished. A shocking stat but this will not keep people from procreating more and more and more.
Click to expand...

Sadly a high percentage of physically stunted kids will also have no education as they have no access to schooling.

It is not a positive outlook by any means.
 
ISLAMABAD: While halting the digital census for Eid, the Pakistan Bureau of Statistics (PBS) announced on Friday that so far 235 million people had been counted — a whopping increase of 27m, or 12.98 per cent, since 2017.

That year’s census had put the country’s population at 207.68m.

The digital census operations will resume after Eid holidays in the light of directives from the Census Monitoring Committee (CMC), said Sarwar Gondal, the PBS spokesperson.
 
First digital census set to be hit by fresh controversy

The ongoing census faces a fresh controversy as both the federal and Sindh governments went public with their differences over the issue on Sunday.

The PPP-led Sindh government expressed concerns for excluding those parts of the province where “population growth rate has been recorded higher than a certain benchmark” and warned that the province would reject the result if its reservations were not addressed.

The Sindh government’s concern came soon after Planning Minister Ahsan Iqbal directed all the provincial governments to complete the field verification/coverage of the population and housing census till May 15 in “areas where population growth is not in line with normal demographic trends” and “close the field operation in all areas exhibiting natural trends”.

On the other hand, both a federal government ally and the opposition PTI expressed their reservations over the census results.

...
https://www.dawn.com/news/1750271/first-digital-census-set-to-be-hit-by-fresh-controversy
 
This is the primary reason behind the reason Greece boat disaster

Our country has just too many people and the country’s resources cannot cater for them in best times let alone right now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

hussain.r97
Why is Pakistan's agricultural sector unable to reach its potential?
Replies
2
Views
697
sweep_shot
sweep_shot
Back
Top