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Pakistan’s T20 top order v watching paint dry: what’s more entertaining?

Rana

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Pakistan are going with Babar, Rizwan and Shan Masood as their top 3 for the World Cup. I have been watching Pakistan cricket closely for nearly 20 years, I know all three of these players do not intend to play T20 cricket like the top 3 of most international teams. They focus more on quick singles and ground shots.

Fakhar Zaman and Muhammad Harris are in the traveling reserves, these are two good attacking players who are unlikely to feature for Pakistan in the World Cup.

So what is more entertaining? Our top 3 producing par/below par scores or watching paint dry?
 
Its fun to watch Babar and Rizwan play when they are playing with intent. Its not like they havent done it in the past. I would expect them to be a lot more aggressive on Pakistan pitches which are better for batting. Also, i think Pakistan and Waseem are setting up Shan Masood to fail in the series against England and we will have Fakhar back in the top 3 in time for the World Cup.
 
I think Haidar will bat @3 and Masood @4.

Pak can’t make too many changes as the WC is so close. Sharjeel had no chance making the squad. You can expect the team to be world beaters when they simply don’t have the players. It’s like asking West Brom to play and win consistently like Man City. It ain’t going to happen.
 
Haider might come in @ 3 and he is pakistan's best bet. He has the potential to play at high sr while also scoring big.
Hope he gets ample chances in England series and takes them with both hands.
 
Haider isn't going to start for Pakistan in T20 World Cup. Pak selectors and team management simply don't have the imagination or fearlessness to go with this.

If this happens, I am willing to change my PP name. :inti
 
Haider isn't going to start for Pakistan in T20 World Cup. Pak selectors and team management simply don't have the imagination or fearlessness to go with this.

If this happens, I am willing to change my PP name. :inti

Ok cool. If Haidar starts then you will have to change you PP name to “Khushdil Fan” or alternatively “Happyheart Fan”
 
There are few better sights in world cricket right now than an in form Babar Azam. I will watch him any day over any other batsman in Pak team. Only a matter of time before he gets his form back.
 
Bobby seems to be suffering from typical Pakistani captain virus. Performance goes downhill and you develop a belly (in certain captains the belly is more pronounced)

Teams seem to have figured out Rizwan and stay away from his hitting zones.... Which makes him play at < 120 SR, which is criminal in the powerplay.

The less said about Fakhar the better.
 
Babar Azam will come good in Australia....expect him to score runs at a good clip there, those wickets suit his gameplay and he did well there in past.

His SR is much better in SENA in T20s.
 
I think Haidar will bat @3 and Masood @4.

Pak can’t make too many changes as the WC is so close. Sharjeel had no chance making the squad. You can expect the team to be world beaters when they simply don’t have the players. It’s like asking West Brom to play and win consistently like Man City. It ain’t going to happen.

I doubt this management has the guts to include 2 players that were missing just a week back together. Shan will probably #3 and Iftikhar chahca is gonna retain #4. No chance for Haider sadly.
 
Haider isn't going to start for Pakistan in T20 World Cup. Pak selectors and team management simply don't have the imagination or fearlessness to go with this.

If this happens, I am willing to change my PP name. :inti

Haider has a chance in upcoming series vs Eng....if he does well then he will start in WC
 
I’ve watched paint dry, it wasn’t good but I’ll do it again if I have to watch Masood, Babar and Rizwan play “fearless” cricket.

Fearless for those who have to support you, not for the opposition.

Afghanistan is a war torn country, and they’ve still managed to put together a better top 3 than Pakistan.
 
Why are we being fed this pathetic top 3 for T20 cricket?

Look at how Englan’s fringe players are smashing the life out of us!
 
Granted it was only this one game they played like this. We don't have our front line bowlers. Not making excuse. But it's not like thier top order played like this every game
 
Why are we being fed this pathetic top 3 for T20 cricket?

Look at how Englan’s fringe players are smashing the life out of us!

When batting first, they always seem to roll out this default oh we want to set 170.

Just go for 200 plus each and every time man!
 
When batting first, they always seem to roll out this default oh we want to set 170.

Just go for 200 plus each and every time man!
it cannot happen with Rizwan and Babar opening; for 200+ you need dashing openers who target 60+ runs in first 6 overs. Rizwan and Babar are not that.
 
it cannot happen with Rizwan and Babar opening; for 200+ you need dashing openers who target 60+ runs in first 6 overs. Rizwan and Babar are not that.

They are capable of it, done it a few times, granted its not going to pay off every time but we what we really mean is they can’t play for their stats and milestones.
 
The biggest problem is:

England 50/3 have the players to still come in and smash the opposition bowlers to all parts and end up with a good total

Pakistan 50/3 they will more than likely be 140 or so all out.

That's why the approach is different.
 
They are capable of it, done it a few times, granted its not going to pay off every time but we what we really mean is they can’t play for their stats and milestones.

You do not put forward exceptions as an argument. Sure Afridi did win us few games and lost maybe 4 times more. Rizwan have intent and Baber being solid work while Rizwan is on song but when Rizwan is quiet and kept quiet, the RR derails.
 
The biggest problem is:

England 50/3 have the players to still come in and smash the opposition bowlers to all parts and end up with a good total

Pakistan 50/3 they will more than likely be 140 or so all out.

That's why the approach is different.

It's not just about the approach, it's the capability as well. Pakistan don't have the number of players that are capable of this approach that England have. My main issue/question with Pakistan's batting is flexibility of the players. Specifically, with the players that you do have in the squad, how can you make the most out of them? You have Babar and Rizwan opening the batting: the main criticism against them is that they need to show intent from the word go (which they are capable of) and if they are struggling with that, hit out at the right time as opposed to deep into the innings and leaving not much for the middle order to work with.

In regards to the middle order, as trash as they've been, I feel Pakistan aren't utilizing them fully and this, again, comes down to flexibility. For example, Shan should only come in to stabilize the batting if wickets are tumbling, not during the powerplay. He didn't play good today but I felt Haider at 3 could've been a better approach at least.

Folks are mentioning names like Sharjeel and Saim and it's like look, Sharjeel has more cons than pros these days as a player and Saim needs more experience (one National T20 Cup and certain posters think he's ready for the WC!).

Pakistan don't have the T20 batting guns that England do but at the very least make the most of your batting resources by playing them in optimal positions according to game-by-game situations.
 
Not a single guy wants to go bam bam from our side, and asif ali who does want to go bam bam unfortunately is nothing remotely close to world class... and to top it off hiring ammi ji Saqlain mushtaq instead of a coach...
 
Not a single guy wants to go bam bam from our side, and asif ali who does want to go bam bam unfortunately is nothing remotely close to world class... and to top it off hiring ammi ji Saqlain mushtaq instead of a coach...

I think more than intent it’s the ability to hit at all parts of the ground. Iftikhar, Haider Ali, Asif Ali and most of our other batsmen all look to hit in just one area of the ground so it’s really easy to set a field against them and know which channel to ball at.
 
It's not just about the approach, it's the capability as well.

If your whole batting performance relies on 2 players, then you have a massive problem.

If they don't perform, there is nobody else to take on the pressure and responsibility.
 
Rizwan rested.

Still got 170.

One myth is busted that Pakistan will crash to 120 all out if Rizwan and Babar don't play every game.
 
If your whole batting performance relies on 2 players, then you have a massive problem.

If they don't perform, there is nobody else to take on the pressure and responsibility.

And these two guys happens to be accumulators at the very best, Nothing is stopping them to bat down the order in the middle overs where both are so comfortable. let some attaching openers try to do what England did in the PP That's what Powerplays are all about. use pp as "Stun gun" shock and paralyze the opposition make them feel helpless because only two fielders are allowed outside the Circle

This is petty much Pakistan "Thinktank" made disaster and their is more to come
 
Rizwan rested.

Still got 170.

One myth is busted that Pakistan will crash to 120 all out if Rizwan and Babar don't play every game.

Babar Azam 87 off 59 balls
The rest of the Pakistan batters combined 77 off 61 balls
 
Babar Azam 87 off 59 balls
The rest of the Pakistan batters combined 77 off 61 balls

Babar scored 50 off 41

That 50 off 41 would be highly valuable at no.3 right now

Not as an opener
 
Babar Azam 87 off 59 balls
The rest of the Pakistan batters combined 77 off 61 balls

59 of 45 balls till 16th over.

Then magically upped his pace to 28 off 14 balls at 200 SR to get 87off 59 balls.

Incapable or playing it safe?
 
Babar scored 50 off 41

That 50 off 41 would be highly valuable at no.3 right now

Not as an opener

Ended up with 87 off 59.
What did the others do opening, middle-order or lower order.

Babar has some issues with his batting, but at the moment there are more issues with other batters.
 
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59 of 45 balls till 16th over.

Then magically upped his pace to 28 off 14 balls at 200 SR to get 87off 59 balls.

Incapable or playing it safe?

I would take that 59 off 47 at no.3

Perfect score
 
pakistan bar babar and rizwan are a horrid batting team

like a poster has said if these two fail than theres no one else in the team who can be relied on to make a score.

england can afford to keep hitting no matter who comes in They have multiple batters they can rely on on any given day

If pakistan does that it will get rolled over cos the rest of the batting are useless
 
pakistan bar babar and rizwan are a horrid batting team

like a poster has said if these two fail than theres no one else in the team who can be relied on to make a score.

england can afford to keep hitting no matter who comes in They have multiple batters they can rely on on any given day

If pakistan does that it will get rolled over cos the rest of the batting are useless

Unacceptable when England's third string batsmen can come in and keep bashing away when our first choice are so weak in comparison.
 
And these two guys happens to be accumulators at the very best, Nothing is stopping them to bat down the order in the middle overs where both are so comfortable. let some attaching openers try to do what England did in the PP That's what Powerplays are all about. use pp as "Stun gun" shock and paralyze the opposition make them feel helpless because only two fielders are allowed outside the Circle

This is petty much Pakistan "Thinktank" made disaster and their is more to come

How they more comfortable batting in the overs.
 
Ended up with 87 off 59.
What did the others do opening, middle-order or lower order.

Babar has some issues with his batting, but at the moment there are more issues with other batters.

Agreed it amazes me that after watching the last six games some people still think that Babar and Rizwan are the problem. :facepalm:
 
And these two guys happens to be accumulators at the very best, Nothing is stopping them to bat down the order in the middle overs where both are so comfortable. let some attaching openers try to do what England did in the PP That's what Powerplays are all about. use pp as "Stun gun" shock and paralyze the opposition make them feel helpless because only two fielders are allowed outside the Circle

This is petty much Pakistan "Thinktank" made disaster and their is more to come

They have both been playing at strike rate close to 140 this series which is what everyone was asking of them. The problem is the middle order. Eng approach worked today but failed miserably last couple of games and their full batting lineup is capable of playing aggressive shots all across the field. In Pakistan, I have only seen Fakhar Zaman who has this ability by he has been in terrible form.
 
1st round exit at the world cup? This team looks like a massive work in progress.

The work has been ongoing for several years. Pakistan have been trying to replace Hafeez and Malik for a long time before being forced to revert back to them for the UAE as there was nobody else.

A year later both players would still walk into this side. Malik might still make it, who knows.
 
I've stopped watching Pakistan T20Is.

I can't watch this team while Babar is captain of the side. Imagine batting the whole innings and not reaching to a ton. Very selfish stuff from him as per usual. Playing for his milestones.

I love in him Tests and ODIs but he's letting us down as captain. He's setting a bad example and clearly doesn't have what it takes to inspire his middle order batsmen. On the field he's far too defensive. He's the Gareth Southgate of cricket.

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] just enjoy the football this weekend.
 
They have both been playing at strike rate close to 140 this series which is what everyone was asking of them. The problem is the middle order. Eng approach worked today but failed miserably last couple of games and their full batting lineup is capable of playing aggressive shots all across the field. In Pakistan, I have only seen Fakhar Zaman who has this ability by he has been in terrible form.

First thing to check for any opener in T20 is pp strike rate and I believe its 2nd lowest among all teams and that is such a shame

Plus if you check their avg strike rate in the laat 10 matches it will be somewhere 110 to 120

These should never be opening, least one of them should drop down. No one is saying they are bad batsmen actually they are fine but both of them have correct game for middle order they actually have played most of their life as middle order and thats where they belong
 
First thing to check for any opener in T20 is pp strike rate and I believe its 2nd lowest among all teams and that is such a shame

Plus if you check their avg strike rate in the laat 10 matches it will be somewhere 110 to 120

These should never be opening, least one of them should drop down. No one is saying they are bad batsmen actually they are fine but both of them have correct game for middle order they actually have played most of their life as middle order and thats where they belong

Let’s just look at this eng series as an example. Babar and Rizwan had a 50+ partnership in 4 games so far. In all 4 games Pakistan had a score of 50+ in the power play and 80+ in 10 overs. By all accounts that is a reasonable if not excellent first half of the match. Where the team has faltered is in the second half or when one of Babar or Rizwan have gotten out early.

The kind of openers you are talking about will like result in Pakistan being 10/1 and 10/2 more often than not and hence will lead to even more pressure on Babar and Rizwan. Teams like India, Eng, Aus and SA have a strong and aggressive enough middle order that they can afford to be 10 or 20/2 and still manage a decent score. Pakistan does not have that luxury.
 
Let’s just look at this eng series as an example. Babar and Rizwan had a 50+ partnership in 4 games so far. In all 4 games Pakistan had a score of 50+ in the power play and 80+ in 10 overs. By all accounts that is a reasonable if not excellent first half of the match. Where the team has faltered is in the second half or when one of Babar or Rizwan have gotten out early.

The kind of openers you are talking about will like result in Pakistan being 10/1 and 10/2 more often than not and hence will lead to even more pressure on Babar and Rizwan. Teams like India, Eng, Aus and SA have a strong and aggressive enough middle order that they can afford to be 10 or 20/2 and still manage a decent score. Pakistan does not have that luxury.

More and more excuses

The team took the wrong direction by promoting another accumulator to the opening spot and demoting a proper opener into a no.3

That one move alone sealed the fate of our middle order especially with Hafeez and Malik on their way out. It wasn’t addressed straight after the World Cup. Instead, the PCB continued to take the easy root by making the two openers the so called brand ambassadors of the team and proclaim it as some kind of juggernaut. Whilst it seemed everything was fine, the truth is that the middle order was destined to fail.

They will continue to fail until the true middle order players return to their true positions, and proper T20 openers come into the team.
 
More and more excuses

The team took the wrong direction by promoting another accumulator to the opening spot and demoting a proper opener into a no.3

That one move alone sealed the fate of our middle order especially with Hafeez and Malik on their way out. It wasn’t addressed straight after the World Cup. Instead, the PCB continued to take the easy root by making the two openers the so called brand ambassadors of the team and proclaim it as some kind of juggernaut. Whilst it seemed everything was fine, the truth is that the middle order was destined to fail.

They will continue to fail until the true middle order players return to their true positions, and proper T20 openers come into the team.

What excuses? By most stats available Babar and Rizwan are the most successful opening pair Pakistan has produced. You can look at partnerships, win/loss ratio etc. I know you have a soft spot for Sharjeel but his career T20I strike rate isn’t out of this world either it’s just slightly higher at 133 with an average of just 22 compared to Babar at 130 SR and 43 average and Rizwan 129 SR and 53 average.
 
For me ok Babar and Rizwan are fantastic batsmen for our team. So BaRiz fans relax. But this is a 7 match home series (where you have the opportunity to bring in all sorts of players from the domestic setup) which is preparation for the World Cup. What have we actually got out of this series.

Before the series we knew BaRiz make a lot of runs, could go quicker but decent strike rate for semi decent totals. However, the rest of the so called batsmen struggle.

After the series we know BaRiz make a lot of runs, could go quicker but decent strike rate for semi decent totals. However, the rest of the so called batsmen struggle.

Was it really necessary to give the bulk of the batting to these two? Why not try out another combination to open? Why not see if some others would sink or swim? If you lose, you lose. If you get all out for 80, so be it. But try and find something. Try and learn something.

There’s no point puffing our chest out about BaRiz and their stats. Look for other players, look for other combinations. Even for BaRiz, if they must always open why don’t they try a helter skelter approach, try some inventiveness. Challenge yourselves. How quick can you actually try to go in the power play. Why not try a pinch hitter up top and drop one of the two down to no3

We have learnt nothing we didn’t already know before.

Look how many different combinations England have tried. Look at the different approaches they’ve tried.

It’s beyond comprehension what we were trying to achieve in this series.
 
For me ok Babar and Rizwan are fantastic batsmen for our team. So BaRiz fans relax. But this is a 7 match home series (where you have the opportunity to bring in all sorts of players from the domestic setup) which is preparation for the World Cup. What have we actually got out of this series.

Before the series we knew BaRiz make a lot of runs, could go quicker but decent strike rate for semi decent totals. However, the rest of the so called batsmen struggle.

After the series we know BaRiz make a lot of runs, could go quicker but decent strike rate for semi decent totals. However, the rest of the so called batsmen struggle.

Was it really necessary to give the bulk of the batting to these two? Why not try out another combination to open? Why not see if some others would sink or swim? If you lose, you lose. If you get all out for 80, so be it. But try and find something. Try and learn something.

ThereÂ’s no point puffing our chest out about BaRiz and their stats. Look for other players, look for other combinations. Even for BaRiz, if they must always open why donÂ’t they try a helter skelter approach, try some inventiveness. Challenge yourselves. How quick can you actually try to go in the power play. Why not try a pinch hitter up top and drop one of the two down to no3

We have learnt nothing we didnÂ’t already know before.

Look how many different combinations England have tried. Look at the different approaches theyÂ’ve tried.

ItÂ’s beyond comprehension what we were trying to achieve in this series.

Which player from the current and World Cup squad has not had a decent opportunity to perform in this tournament? If you can enlighten us that would be great.
 
Openers score runs - it's not good enough
Others don't score runs - it's the openers fault

Strange logic from some.
 
Openers score runs - it's not good enough
Others don't score runs - it's the openers fault

Strange logic from some.

I don’t know about others, but my point is simple. What is this 7 match series for? Is it just winning at all costs?

I have no problem with losing a bilateral series (one which is actually prep for an upcoming World Cup) as long as you glean something from it. We haven’t learnt anything this series apart from Babar and Riz are our best batsmen.

Why have we not tried a pinch hitter? What is the harm. I gave some other examples in my previous post on this thread. If it doesn’t work, go back to your tried and trusted babar and rizwan? All I’m asking for is to take some risks. See how you can make the most of the batting.

This is not a blame game about performances for me. It’s a blame game about lack of planning.
 
I guess for a middling team like Pakistan, most fans are rapturous about Babar and Rizwan combo. Pakistan might end up 20 to 25 runs short 70 percent of times but the bowling can still cover the deficit as we saw in those narrow 3 and 5 run wins for Pakistan.

The people who want Babar - Rizwan combo to be broken are looking at the "bigger picture". I can also safely say that with these two opening we WONT win the T20 World Cup. Eventually, they will botch a chase with their "cautious batting" or end up "a few runs short batting first".

But if the target is a respectable place in T20 world cup, I think Pakistan is on course.

Win? Meh. Not with this approach.
 
I don’t know about others, but my point is simple. What is this 7 match series for? Is it just winning at all costs?

I have no problem with losing a bilateral series (one which is actually prep for an upcoming World Cup) as long as you glean something from it. We haven’t learnt anything this series apart from Babar and Riz are our best batsmen.

Why have we not tried a pinch hitter? What is the harm. I gave some other examples in my previous post on this thread. If it doesn’t work, go back to your tried and trusted babar and rizwan? All I’m asking for is to take some risks. See how you can make the most of the batting.

This is not a blame game about performances for me. It’s a blame game about lack of planning.

I parroted this so many times.

But a team who plays Babar Rizwan even against Netherlands is not looking to "find anything new".

I've given up on them trying new things.
 
Which player from the current and World Cup squad has not had a decent opportunity to perform in this tournament? If you can enlighten us that would be great.

Again you missed the point. Why have we not experimented with the same personnel but a different batting order. Or a different approach. Why haven’t we tried to challenge ourselves.

And these arguments about “well we would be all out for 60”. Who cares. It’s a bilateral series. It’s a prep series. If you get out you get out. If you lose you lose. If you get thrashed, so be it. Try something, look for different combinations.

Even open with Ifti or Asif or whatever. If they’re prone to getting out caught on the boundary, maybe the may fare better in the powerplay with fielding restrictions.

Try to get more out of your team rather than cutting some cake for Riz’ no1 ranking or babar’s 3000 runs or whatever other pointless milestone we like to pat ourselves on the back about.
 
I parroted this so many times.

But a team who plays Babar Rizwan even against Netherlands is not looking to "find anything new".

I've given up on them trying new things.

Completely understand the frustration
 
Openers score runs - it's not good enough
Others don't score runs - it's the openers fault

Strange logic from some.

“Openers”

They are not openers of this format. Just two technically good batsmen playing risk free cricket getting extra reward for their shots

Either your middle order is explosive with the likes of Miller, David and Livingstone or this approach is not the correct one.

Pakistan cannot find a proper number 3? Why? Why is Babar not batting at that position? There is no one in the country besides him who can do that role at the correct pace!

Rizwan happy to be 21 off 18 in the powerplay every time. Why?? Why is no one telling him that the openers of the best countries would rather be out instead of not even trying to get 30+ runs in the powerplay

He’s been doing this job for 2 years now and he just seems comfortable in his approach, he doesn’t seem to want to become that guy for us!
 
Whichever way you look at it Pakistan doesnt have the batting personell to be continually challenging the 200 total in t20i

You can blame rizwan and babar all you want but the fact of the matter is the other batters are not good enough to get into any other intnl team

If you move riz n bobby down to 3-4 they will still invariably come in at 20-2 under pressure to do a repair job

And id rather my best batters come up top n set a good solid base than come down the order when the damage has been done

Pakistan fans arent being realistic Theyve tried several players Khusdil, haider, ifti asif masood etc etc and noones held a spot

This team isnt good enough And changing the order, getting more new players in or blaming rizwan and babar isnt gonna change that fact
 
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“Openers”

They are not openers of this format. Just two technically good batsmen playing risk free cricket getting extra reward for their shots

They are the batters who are scoring the bulk of Pakistan's runs in T20Is and sparing our blushes and the blushes of their team-mates.
 
Whichever way you look at it Pakistan doesnt have the batting personell to be continually challenging the 200 total in t20i

You can blame rizwan and babar all you want but the fact of the matter is the other batters are not good enough to get into any other intnl team

If you move riz n bobby down to 3-4 they will still invariably come in at 20-2 under pressure to do a repair job

And id rather my best batters come up top n set a good solid base than come down the order when the damage has been done

Pakistan fans arent being realistic Theyve tried several players Khusdil, haider, ifti asif masood etc etc and noones held a spot

This team isnt good enough And changing the order, getting more new players in or blaming rizwan and babar isnt gonna change that fact

Babar+Rizwan at 3 and 4 walking in at 20-2

Manzoor hai

Aage barh
 
Babar+Rizwan at 3 and 4 walking in at 20-2

Manzoor hai

Aage barh

It might be acceptable to you but not me at the moment they are pakistans best performing batters n playing phenomenally

Its the others that need to stand up for once n do a job
 
It might be acceptable to you but not me at the moment they are pakistans best performing batters n playing phenomenally

Its the others that need to stand up for once n do a job

Stop preempting failure based on nothing

It’s not acceptable to you because you are afraid. This fear has seeped into our fans and it has shackled us! We are the 6th or 7th best white ball team in the world!
 
Whichever way you look at it Pakistan doesnt have the batting personell to be continually challenging the 200 total in t20i

You can blame rizwan and babar all you want but the fact of the matter is the other batters are not good enough to get into any other intnl team

If you move riz n bobby down to 3-4 they will still invariably come in at 20-2 under pressure to do a repair job

And id rather my best batters come up top n set a good solid base than come down the order when the damage has been done

Pakistan fans arent being realistic Theyve tried several players Khusdil, haider, ifti asif masood etc etc and noones held a spot

This team isnt good enough And changing the order, getting more new players in or blaming rizwan and babar isnt gonna change that fact

A lot of your points are assumptions. They may be likely assumptions but they are still assumptions nonetheless.

Why in SEVEN matches can we not 2-3 times try putting one or even two pinch hitters at the top?
 
Stop preempting failure based on nothing

It’s not acceptable to you because you are afraid. This fear has seeped into our fans and it has shackled us! We are the 6th or 7th best white ball team in the world!

Youre not making sense What am i preempting on nothing? The games n performances are infront of you Its a fact sharjeels, fakhars iftis khushdils asif alis haiders arent good enough as we have seen and theyve been given numerous chances Sharjeels fitness is diabolical and hes one dimentional

Who hasnt been given a chance The new keeper opener yday failed? Haider batted at 3 n 4 failed Asif ali can last only 5-6 balls

Its not fear that has shackled us but the reality that the personell arent good enough
 
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Mickey Arthur has already said on record that either Rizwan or Babar will move lower down the order but both cannot be opening the batting together, he would make Fakhar the opener because in T20 Cricket, you have to make the most out of the power play.
 
Youre not making sense What am i preempting on nothing? The games n performances are infront of you Its a fact sharjeels, fakhars iftis khushdils asif alis haiders arent good enough as we have seen and theyve been given numerous chances Sharjeels fitness is diabolical and hes one dimentional

Who hasnt been given a chance The new keeper opener yday failed? Haider batted at 3 n 4 failed Asif ali can last only 5-6 balls

Its not fear that has shackled us but the reality that the personell arent good enough
Stop avoiding the point of discussion

This thread is about our top 3

Not the 4-7 players

The top 3 is outdated just like your understanding of this game
 
Youre not making sense What am i preempting on nothing? The games n performances are infront of you Its a fact sharjeels, fakhars iftis khushdils asif alis haiders arent good enough as we have seen and theyve been given numerous chances Sharjeels fitness is diabolical and hes one dimentional

Who hasnt been given a chance The new keeper opener yday failed? Haider batted at 3 n 4 failed Asif ali can last only 5-6 balls

Its not fear that has shackled us but the reality that the personell arent good enough

Its a sad reality that Pakistan's best hitters are all pre dominant leg side hacks, the odd hitter playing a shot on the off side looks very unnatural and uncomfortable.

In comparison look at the likes of Hales, Salt, Brooks, Duckett and Co. These guys can play 360 degrees cricket to all corners of the ground which puts the bowlers under immense pressure who don't know where to bowl and what the batsman is going to do next.

This is predominantly an early coaching, domestic cricket issue. Someone like Yousaf will not be able to completely overhaul a batsman in international cricket in such a short time period. Changing one's technique, mental approach with the bat and putting it into practice and delivering results with it in domestic cricket takes time.

One also must question what do our players really practice day in, day out in the nets.
 
Stop avoiding the point of discussion

This thread is about our top 3

Not the 4-7 players

The top 3 is outdated just like your understanding of this game

They are linked If you dont understand that then theres no point in having a discussion with you

The fact is if pakistan had a reliable 4-7 n had a bankable batter or two more then the top 2 would most likely take more risks n show some more urgency uptop knowing they have batters that can re relied on

At the moment without their contribution the team can barely hit 150

Its openers or bust Hence you can understand why they dont take as many risks as they can or should

Itd be interesting to find out how many batsman have made an intl t20 50 for pakistan batting at 4-7 in the last 2 years
 
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Again you missed the point. Why have we not experimented with the same personnel but a different batting order. Or a different approach. Why haven’t we tried to challenge ourselves.

And these arguments about “well we would be all out for 60”. Who cares. It’s a bilateral series. It’s a prep series. If you get out you get out. If you lose you lose. If you get thrashed, so be it. Try something, look for different combinations.

Even open with Ifti or Asif or whatever. If they’re prone to getting out caught on the boundary, maybe the may fare better in the powerplay with fielding restrictions.

Try to get more out of your team rather than cutting some cake for Riz’ no1 ranking or babar’s 3000 runs or whatever other pointless milestone we like to pat ourselves on the back about.

We are a month away from World Cup can the team really afford to do large scale experiments? Most team at this stage are making adjustments only where there is room for improvements. No one is completely changing approach at this stage of the game. Take England for example they lost games 4 & 5, which they should have won, because of their all out attack approach. Did they change their approach to try something new? No, they kept the same approach in game 6 because that’s how they play.

Similar situation for Pakistan we can’t make large scale changes at this stage. People said we need our openers to score faster and both Babar and Rizwan have done it this series with a 140+ strike rate. The problem is the middle order which is struggling to keep up the momentum. That’s the area where players need to step up.
 
Let’s just look at this eng series as an example. Babar and Rizwan had a 50+ partnership in 4 games so far. In all 4 games Pakistan had a score of 50+ in the power play and 80+ in 10 overs. By all accounts that is a reasonable if not excellent first half of the match. Where the team has faltered is in the second half or when one of Babar or Rizwan have gotten out early.

The kind of openers you are talking about will like result in Pakistan being 10/1 and 10/2 more often than not and hence will lead to even more pressure on Babar and Rizwan. Teams like India, Eng, Aus and SA have a strong and aggressive enough middle order that they can afford to be 10 or 20/2 and still manage a decent score. Pakistan does not have that luxury.

You know bringing those embarrassing PP stats of these world "best" batsmen would be accepting the truth. The average score these two gentlemen put together is btw 40-45 max that's their ceiling

I give Rizwan an "A" for effort ever since the backlash of Asia cup he is honestly trying but his off side game is exposed and he keep on playing lots of dot deliveries in the PP, things will only become worse in
Aussies pitches with that bounce

I have noticed Politician do this to make themselves more acceptable by forcing people to think that all hell will break loose if you move them. I would have given Haider the whole series as an opener to see how it works with Babar and Rizzy at no.2 and 3 they could sleep walk with those "Diet Strike rate"


We are a month away from World Cup can the team really afford to do large scale experiments? Most team at this stage are making adjustments only where there is room for improvements. No one is completely changing approach at this stage of the game. Take England for example they lost games 4 & 5, which they should have won, because of their all out attack approach. Did they change their approach to try something new? No, they kept the same approach in game 6 because that’s how they play.

Similar situation for Pakistan we can’t make large scale changes at this stage. People said we need our openers to score faster and both Babar and Rizwan have done it this series with a 140+ strike rate. The problem is the middle order which is struggling to keep up the momentum. That’s the area where players need to step up.

Pakistan is already too late for these experiment already and this series must have been used only for that purpose, they have tired everything including calling a Test specialist to fix T20 middle order woes
The only thing remain untouchable is experimenting with opening pair.

When natural openers like Haider, Fakhar have to settle down the order just so that these two gentlemen suck the initiative out of PP game after game then putting these so called "Hacks" in the opening slot is
the only sensible thing as with only 2 fielders out they will have better chances and Pakistan will still have
these two Gentlemen going through overs with a 50 of 41 balls


They are linked If you dont understand that then theres no point in having a discussion with you

The fact is if pakistan had a reliable 4-7 n had a bankable batter or two more then the top 2 would most likely take more risks n show some more urgency uptop knowing they have batters that can re relied on

At the moment without their contribution the team can barely hit 150

Its openers or bust Hence you can understand why they dont take as many risks as they can or should

Itd be interesting to find out how many batsman have made an intl t20 50 for pakistan batting at 4-7 in the last 2 years


Let's say Pakistan got a belter of a Pitch in Karachi where only these two batted and got around 200
had other batsmen played on such surfaces and gained some confidence things would have been different
for Pakistan other batsmen who all are under huge pressure to take care of strike rate because these two wouldn't

Second who the hell select this team of Khusdil, Asif etc and why?? the answer is so obvious Mr "Diet Strike rate" with Puffed average can play 90 balls and then rest of the batting is suppose to come and blast the hell out of bowlers

Till on of these two go down the order Pakistan batting woes have no immediate fix and they can expect a first round exit
 
I think we have to come away from the retain wickets attitudes. When you are trying to retain wickets you're not making use of the powerplay. The fielders are in so you can actually attack the bowlers easily but the openers are not doing that. They're scoring at a slower rate.

You can rely on the middle order to blast near the end with wickets intact. If the bowling is good if will be difficult to score to freely. The only way to set a base is to make sure of the powerplay which gives you an opportunity to score runs. Which is exactly what England did!

I know historically Pakistan when losing wickets has caused us issues but that was in ODIs this is T20s! So if you lose wickets it's not all that bad, at least try to make an effort.

What's the point of having 7 wickets in hand but you only have 4 overs left to play?
 
You know bringing those embarrassing PP stats of these world "best" batsmen would be accepting the truth. The average score these two gentlemen put together is btw 40-45 max that's their ceiling

I give Rizwan an "A" for effort ever since the backlash of Asia cup he is honestly trying but his off side game is exposed and he keep on playing lots of dot deliveries in the PP, things will only become worse in
Aussies pitches with that bounce

I have noticed Politician do this to make themselves more acceptable by forcing people to think that all hell will break loose if you move them. I would have given Haider the whole series as an opener to see how it works with Babar and Rizzy at no.2 and 3 they could sleep walk with those "Diet Strike rate"




Pakistan is already too late for these experiment already and this series must have been used only for that purpose, they have tired everything including calling a Test specialist to fix T20 middle order woes
The only thing remain untouchable is experimenting with opening pair.

When natural openers like Haider, Fakhar have to settle down the order just so that these two gentlemen suck the initiative out of PP game after game then putting these so called "Hacks" in the opening slot is
the only sensible thing as with only 2 fielders out they will have better chances and Pakistan will still have
these two Gentlemen going through overs with a 50 of 41 balls





Let's say Pakistan got a belter of a Pitch in Karachi where only these two batted and got around 200
had other batsmen played on such surfaces and gained some confidence things would have been different
for Pakistan other batsmen who all are under huge pressure to take care of strike rate because these two wouldn't

Second who the hell select this team of Khusdil, Asif etc and why?? the answer is so obvious Mr "Diet Strike rate" with Puffed average can play 90 balls and then rest of the batting is suppose to come and blast the hell out of bowlers

Till on of these two go down the order Pakistan batting woes have no immediate fix and they can expect a first round exit


Large post with little substance. Fakhar is the only other capable opener and his stats at best are identical to Babar and Rizwan. How many times did we see Pakistan with a 70+ score in power play when Fakhar was opening? Haider Ali’s stats are even worse when you look at his PSL record. If you want to bring in Sharjeel that topic has been discussed to death and his stats are not great either.

People are making out that there are some explosive openers that are being held back by Babar and Rizwan. Facts don’t support this argument.
 
Fact: Even Ireland-Afghanistan has more entertaining top 3 than what Pakistan right now. Impact of player's knock matters these days. Pakistan's approach of save wickets for last 5 overs attack is quite frankly a medieval approach. It will not always work as most of the times bowlers bowling in those 5 are their best bowlers and field is all set for boundary shots. Every opposition now knows how Pakistan plays their t20 game so they can't even be foxed.

We have to accept the fact that selfish cricket, milestones and statistical cricket has no place in today's modern day cricket. It doesn't matter what your average or no. Of 50s are. Your impact as a player matters. Nothing else. Every player should be playing for team not their personal averages and stats.
 
Large post with little substance. Fakhar is the only other capable opener and his stats at best are identical to Babar and Rizwan. How many times did we see Pakistan with a 70+ score in power play when Fakhar was opening? Haider Ali’s stats are even worse when you look at his PSL record. If you want to bring in Sharjeel that topic has been discussed to death and his stats are not great either.

People are making out that there are some explosive openers that are being held back by Babar and Rizwan. Facts don’t support this argument.

Substance Lol ! Are you watching cricket recently because just Yesterday Mr. 50 of 41 balls with target score of 170 max was embarrassed in front of the whole world, and you still need more substance

Quick Quiz for you how many dot balls Mr Rizwan played during the PP in Asia Cup the answer will provide you lot of 'substance"
 
Substance Lol ! Are you watching cricket recently because just Yesterday Mr. 50 of 41 balls with target score of 170 max was embarrassed in front of the whole world, and you still need more substance

Quick Quiz for you how many dot balls Mr Rizwan played during the PP in Asia Cup the answer will provide you lot of 'substance"

Lol who is better? Haider Ali, Shan Masood, Mohammad Haris all had early chances yesterday to show their skills what were their stats like? Haris 7of 8, Haider 18 of 14, Shan 0 of 2. Provide a solution that you can back with stats is better than Babar and Rizwan and we can talk.
 
I parroted this so many times.

But a team who plays Babar Rizwan even against Netherlands is not looking to "find anything new".

I've given up on them trying new things.

Spot on.

I wanted them to try haris and haider as openers. Just something different. Anything different.

But no matter who we play where we play our first 11 will be 90 percent the same lineip
 
Lol who is better? Haider Ali, Shan Masood, Mohammad Haris all had early chances yesterday to show their skills what were their stats like? Haris 7of 8, Haider 18 of 14, Shan 0 of 2. Provide a solution that you can back with stats is better than Babar and Rizwan and we can talk.

People hardly realize that they are so off the mark that you often wonder "do they even know what is the issue here"

Pakistan doesn't need overall better batsmen then Rizwan or Babar, they just need an enforcer who can exploit field restrictions, If Australia would go with your logic or lack of it then camroon green would never open.

Having someone who is ready to loft the ball over field put opposite captain in bit of a flux and not afraid to have take risk is exactly what Pakistan need. They have Haider for one who was a fine prospect and in touch when they decided to drop him harshly

You wouldn't understand that how funny it looks to the whole world when Pakistan best middle order batsmen have taken to opening with some success and they are searching for non existent middle order rather then these two fine batsmen take go back to their original positions

Try coffee
 
People hardly realize that they are so off the mark that you often wonder "do they even know what is the issue here"

Pakistan doesn't need overall better batsmen then Rizwan or Babar, they just need an enforcer who can exploit field restrictions, If Australia would go with your logic or lack of it then camroon green would never open.

Having someone who is ready to loft the ball over field put opposite captain in bit of a flux and not afraid to have take risk is exactly what Pakistan need. They have Haider for one who was a fine prospect and in touch when they decided to drop him harshly

You wouldn't understand that how funny it looks to the whole world when Pakistan best middle order batsmen have taken to opening with some success and they are searching for non existent middle order rather then these two fine batsmen take go back to their original positions

Try coffee

Who is that enforcer? It’s a simple question, I don’t understand why we need paragraphs with no substance to answer this. Tell me who this enforcer is and provide the stats.
 
Spot on.

I wanted them to try haris and haider as openers. Just something different. Anything different.

But no matter who we play where we play our first 11 will be 90 percent the same lineip

Haris opened yesterday 7 of 8 balls Haider was in within 3 overs and made 18 of 14. Yet the problem is Babar and Rizwan.
 
They have Haider for one

Stopped reading here.

It's pretty ridiculous when people suggest a Pakistani Lance Klusener is being robbed of his career because of Babar and Rizwan. When you ask about power hitters they claim 'Sharjeel' and 'Haider' and we really don't need to go into that any further.

Try football.
 
Haris opened yesterday 7 of 8 balls Haider was in within 3 overs and made 18 of 14. Yet the problem is Babar and Rizwan.

Add to that Asif who was promoted and had 6 overs to hit at least 2 sixes out of his 150 bucket of sixes.
 
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