Pakistan announce the squad for the two-match Test series (2025) against the West Indies

[Farabi]

I honestly don't care what you buy into or what your criteria is. All I know Abdullah is better than likes which you have suggested. Textbook, ugly, eye test, he's better than the players which you would want I can guarantee you that.

You seem to have a problem with those stuff but not everyone does. You don't know the difference between ability, textbook technique etc. Once you figure that out it will be easier to understand batting.

I have no interest what you believe or don't. I am yet to be wrong about a player.

What you're suggesting is exactly why Pakistani cricket keeps struggling. What you're not accounting for is how things work differently in Pakistan.

In places like England, where merit matters and systems have proper checks and balances, there's more room for subjectivity based on merit. Plus, they have educated, data-driven minds making decisions with technical analysis.

But in Pakistan, subjective decisions are often used for favoritism and personal biases. With our culture of nepotism, these eye tests just don’t work as they should.

In Pakistan, we should minimize subjective judgments. Data-driven choices are what we need, because relying on personal preferences just leads to wasted talent.

Everyone, like you, thinks they know the best players based on how they look on the eyes, but that’s exactly what’s led to so many careers being ruined in the past.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

They are playing Kashif Ali who lost significant amount of pace this season , was actually a good bowler 2 seasons ago but now hardly touches 135k in tests.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Data can be flawed, and eye tests can be spot-on, but overall, data tends to be more reliable. In Pakistan though, most people have no clue how use data. Data is usually used selectively in a biased way.

1. A lot of myths pop up around certain selections, but they’re often just fluff. We should dig into the facts with players like Trescothick and Lara. Did they play domestic cricket, and what were their numbers like before getting picked? Take the myth about Imran Khan discovering Inzi in the nets—it’s been debunked several times. Inzi was already dominating Pakistan’s domestic scene before his selection.

2. Sure, there may have been a few cases where selections were based more on eye tests than numbers, but those are pretty rare. The proven formula for success is data-driven selections. Just look at India. They gave Gill and Jaiswal a couple of seasons to prove themselves, even though there was a lot of hype around their talent at the U19 level. But did we let Abdullah develop in domestic first? That’s the kind of process we need in our system—prioritizing process over individual opinions.

The facts are players like Tresco had average domestic numbers and as @Kyberlion stated Brook and Root as well.

No body is saying that numbers should be discarded but neither should the art of being able to spot a talent.

You seem obsessively against Eye tests. Bro this aint no opticians.

ABD is a proven performer at international level.

The data says so .

Getting a few 0 s doesn't change that fact.

Its called cricket it happens.

As I said on my previous post the criteria has to be what is required for a certain tour not just Data that gives you domestic champions who make zero impact at the highest level.

The SA tour has exposed that Data alone is flawed.

Common sense is a commodity that is lacking more than anything else.

 

[Farabi]

Root had 30 odd average in FC so did Brook before making their debuts. The poster is very confused with ability and eye test

@Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH

That’s your take, buddy. To bolster your point:

Lyon, Michael Vaughan, Marnus Labuschagne, Ken Barrington—there are plenty of players who’ve performed better in Test cricket than in First Class.

David Warner is probably the most extreme case; I’ve heard he didn’t even play First Class cricket before making his Test debut.

No one’s saying eye tests and subjective analysis don’t work. That’s taking it to an extreme. Even data-driven selections aren’t always foolproof—some players just don’t transition well to the international stage.

The point being made here is:

1. These cases are the exception, not the rule. Most of the time, international success comes after domestic success. It’s all about probabilities.

2. In Pakistan’s context, subjective analysis can be dangerous. Because of our liking/disliking culture, they’re often weaponized against players we don’t personally favor. We’re not as smart as we think, and we make judgment errors far too often.

 

[Farabi]

The facts are players like Tresco had average domestic numbers and as @Kyberlion stated Brook and Root as well.

No body is saying that numbers should be discarded but neither should the art of being able to spot a talent.

You seem obsessively against Eye tests. Bro this aint no opticians.

ABD is a proven performer at international level.

The data says so .

Getting a few 0 s doesn't change that fact.

Its called cricket it happens.

As I said on my previous post the criteria has to be what is required for a certain tour not just Data that gives you domestic champions who make zero impact at the highest level.

The SA tour has exposed that Data alone is flawed.

Common sense is a commodity that is lacking more than anything else.

1. In Pakistan, data should drive 80% of the selection process, with subjective analysis only coming into play when comparing players with similar stats.

2. Abdullah Shafique is an okay player. He hasn’t proven himself outside Asia. His Test average of 38—built on games in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh—is just about par. He didn’t live up to the hype from Hafeez, Misbah, and Mohammad Wasim, who predicted he’d become a legend. He’s flopped in ODIs and was rightly dropped. There are better players than him in the domestic system.

3. The South Africa tour didn’t expose data; it exposed Pakistan’s first-class system’s flaws, like its inability to rehabilitate injured fast bowlers or maximize their potential. The fast bowlers were okay on the Test tour. They made a match of just 150 run chase. The first Test was very competitive but lost due to poor batting. In the second Test, we had South Africa at 70/3—if Nauman Ali had played, things might have gone differently. Plus, scoring just 194 runs in the first innings was unacceptable.

 

[khyberlion]

What you're suggesting is exactly why Pakistani cricket keeps struggling. What you're not accounting for is how things work differently in Pakistan.

In places like England, where merit matters and systems have proper checks and balances, there's more room for subjectivity based on merit. Plus, they have educated, data-driven minds making decisions with technical analysis.

But in Pakistan, subjective decisions are often used for favoritism and personal biases. With our culture of nepotism, these eye tests just don’t work as they should.

In Pakistan, we should minimize subjective judgments. Data-driven choices are what we need, because relying on personal preferences just leads to wasted talent.

Everyone, like you, thinks they know the best players based on how they look on the eyes, but that’s exactly what’s led to so many careers being ruined in the past.

Pakistan cricket is not struggling because of him suggestion. What have I even suggested? Pakistan cricket is struggling because they don't have talent for a start and secondly when they do get talented players they are wasted by not being developed properly.

I haven't suggested picking up players without any performances, neither have I also suggested pick players based on eye test. You just have an obsession with technique, eye test and rubbish players.

I called Farhan rubbish against pace and he proved it. I called tahir even more rubbish against pace and he's proving it. I have also called Kamran Ghulam average against pace and he is also proving it.

Data along with checking ability of a player is important. Not just data.

 

[Farabi]

They are playing Kashif Ali who lost significant amount of pace this season , was actually a good bowler 2 seasons ago but now hardly touches 135k in tests.

How do you know? Are there any speed guns in first class?

 

[khyberlion]

1. In Pakistan, data should drive 80% of the selection process, with subjective analysis only coming into play when comparing players with similar stats.

2. Abdullah Shafique is an okay player. He hasn’t proven himself outside Asia. His Test average of 38—built on games in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh—is just about par. He didn’t live up to the hype from Hafeez, Misbah, and Mohammad Wasim, who predicted he’d become a legend. He’s flopped in ODIs and was rightly dropped. There are better players than him in the domestic system.

3. The South Africa tour didn’t expose data; it exposed Pakistan’s first-class system’s flaws, like its inability to rehabilitate injured fast bowlers or maximize their potential. The fast bowlers were okay on the Test tour. They made a match of just 150 run chase. The first Test was very competitive but lost due to poor batting. In the second Test, we had South Africa at 70/3—if Nauman Ali had played, things might have gone differently. Plus, scoring just 194 runs in the first innings was unacceptable.

Abdullah has played 3 tests games outside SC and bar the last game against Australia where he got ducks in both innings he was actually one of our best batsmen in that series till the last game. According to you we should drop Saud as well as he's played 5 test matches with 1 fifty?

 

[Jazx]

He was 5 " 10 or there about s which is short in terms of a pacer your "International class" is referring to.

The point is you can not write anyone off based on past performances especially when he was young.

Players improve and mature at different stages.

Hayden initially failed at international level and was dropped but when he came back he was a champion.

If Australian selectors took that approach the world would of missed out on haydens talent.

5"10 is far better than a 5"5 feet bowler. You are backing him for no reason other than pace which is overrated among pak fans.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

@Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH

That’s your take, buddy. To bolster your point:

Lyon, Michael Vaughan, Marnus Labuschagne, Ken Barrington—there are plenty of players who’ve performed better in Test cricket than in First Class.

David Warner is probably the most extreme case; I’ve heard he didn’t even play First Class cricket before making his Test debut.

No one’s saying eye tests and subjective analysis don’t work. That’s taking it to an extreme. Even data-driven selections aren’t always foolproof—some players just don’t transition well to the international stage.

The point being made here is:

1. These cases are the exception, not the rule. Most of the time, international success comes after domestic success. It’s all about probabilities.

2. In Pakistan’s context, subjective analysis can be dangerous. Because of our liking/disliking culture, they’re often weaponized against players we don’t personally favor. We’re not as smart as we think, and we make judgment errors far too often.

Your missing the point.

No one is disagreeing about the importance of domestic.

But not every domestic player has the capability to play international level.

That is just plain facts.

Identifying the requirements is more important than any stats.

That is what the SA test tour exposed.

With regards to your 2nd point its true however we know that connections play a significant role in society and in every field in Pakistan.

Its not smartness its money.

IK will reform that over time when he returns.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

5"10 is far better than a 5"5 feet bowler.

Musa khan is around 5 "10.

Whose 5 " 5. ???.

 

[Farabi]

Abdullah has played 3 tests games outside SC and bar the last game against Australia where he got ducks in both innings he was actually one of our best batsmen in that series till the last game. According to you we should drop Saud as well as he's played 5 test matches with 1 fifty?

I meant to say his performance have come in Asia. In Aus, he averaged 18 on tour.

Saud Shakeel has much more performance than Abdullah Technique. Please don’t compare Saud with “Kitabi” player.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Does anyone know who is showing this in the UK?

Nobody

 

[khyberlion]

I meant to say his performance have come in Asia. In Aus, he averaged 18 on tour.

Saud Shakeel has much more performance than Abdullah Technique. Please don’t compare Saud with “Kitabi” player.

I didn't compare them just pointed out facts. You seem very dishonest based on your posts. I will leave it at that. Don't need to engage in a discussion in future till you learn some basics of cricket.

 

[Farabi]

Abdullah has played 3 tests games outside SC and bar the last game against Australia where he got ducks in both innings he was actually one of our best batsmen in that series till the last game. According to you we should drop Saud as well as he's played 5 test matches with 1 fifty?

Anyway, you’ve taken my point in too many directions.

What I was saying is that Abdullah’s technique was way overhyped by the so-called experts (Misbah, Hafeez, Mohd Wasim, Babar and more). Instead of playing domestic cricket, he spent most of his time traveling with the team and sitting on the bench before he got chances.

His technique looks great to the eye—high elbow, pretty cover drives—but that mesmerized our “experts”, and they didn’t spot the flaws in his game. His bat comes down from the cover region, which seems to open him up and create a gap between bat and pad, he’s always late on short balls, and his head falls over a lot.

He’s not a bad player by any means, and he should be worked on at the NCA to fix these issues. But he’s another victim of the eye test. If his technique was not overhyped and he had just been allowed to play more domestic cricket, he probably would’ve been ready to debut now with some domestic experience under his belt. This was my key point.

 

[Farabi]

I didn't compare them just pointed out facts. You seem very dishonest based on your posts. I will leave it at that. Don't need to engage in a discussion in future till you learn some basics of cricket.

Absolutely, I am not dying to engage in a discussion either with anyone who jumps to calling me “dishonest” just because I disagreed with them.
We are discussing Abdullah and you’re dragging Saud into it. If that’s not comparing 2 players, I don’t know what else to call it.

 

[Mohraheem]

He is also taking rest like Bumrah.

Because if Misbah he was dropped

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

1. In Pakistan, data should drive 80% of the selection process, with subjective analysis only coming into play when comparing players with similar stats.

2. Abdullah Shafique is an okay player. He hasn’t proven himself outside Asia. His Test average of 38—built on games in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh—is just about par. He didn’t live up to the hype from Hafeez, Misbah, and Mohammad Wasim, who predicted he’d become a legend. He’s flopped in ODIs and was rightly dropped. There are better players than him in the domestic system.

3. The South Africa tour didn’t expose data; it exposed Pakistan’s first-class system’s flaws, like its inability to rehabilitate injured fast bowlers or maximize their potential. The fast bowlers were okay on the Test tour. They made a match of just 150 run chase. The first Test was very competitive but lost due to poor batting. In the second Test, we had South Africa at 70/3—if Nauman Ali had played, things might have gone differently. Plus, scoring just 194 runs in the first innings was unacceptable.

The first Test in the SA test series was on a green top and we had SA 99 -8 chasing 150 odd we should of won.

No question.

That was grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

That was poor from the bowling unit and atrocious captaincy from Shan. facts.

Shan has proven to be equally inept as Babar was with captaincy.


Most indian batters and most batter s in general score more heavily at home than overseas that is common.

ABD averages 45.13 away and 38.56 away.


The SA tour highlighted poor selection and not recognising conditions and its requirements by looking at data alone.

The hosts had 3 - 4 bowlers bowling 140 ks plus and we took domestic performers.

The results were plain to see.

Anybody who has played at a half decent level and has some basic knowledge of the game knows that pace is a must commodity at international level.

A question for you.

Look at the best attacks in the world like Aus , Eng and SA and tell me what do they all have in common?.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Does anyone know who is showing this in the UK?

I heard something about sky winning the rights for Pakistan matches in the UK,

 

[khyberlion]

Absolutely, I am not dying to engage in a discussion either with anyone who jumps to calling me “dishonest” just because I disagreed with them.
We are discussing Abdullah and you’re dragging Saud into it. If that’s not comparing 2 players, I don’t know what else to call it.

You tagged me and stated something which I don't recall saying. I used Saud example to make my point not to compare. This will be my last post on this topic with you.

 

[Farabi]

The first Test in the SA test series was on a green top and we had SA 99 -8 chasing 150 odd we should of won.

No question.

That was grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

That was poor from the bowling unit and atrocious captaincy from Shan. facts.

Shan has proven to be equally inept as Babar was with captaincy.


Most indian batters and most batter s in general score more heavily at home than overseas that is common.

ABD averages 45.13 away and 38.56 away.


The SA tour highlighted poor selection and not recognising conditions and its requirements by looking at data alone.

The hosts had 3 - 4 bowlers bowling 140 ks plus and we took domestic performers.

The results were plain to see.

Anybody who has played at a half decent level and has some basic knowledge of the game knows that pace is a must commodity at international level.

A question for you.

Look at the best attacks in the world like Aus , Eng and SA and tell me what do they all have in common?.

1. I am not sure if I came to the same conclusion. Had batters done their job and not thrown it away, a target of 250 would have been a game changer. First test was lost due to batting. Bowlers made a game out of 150 and kept us in the game.
During 2nd test, again out batting was poor in 1st innings, otherwise their 140 KPH bowlers also struggled in second innings.
2. I am not against bowlers who bowl with pace, I am against bowlers who only bowl with pace and have nothing else to show for it. If the option is to pick a raw pacer and domestic performer, then latter is better option because at least they will offer control. Mohammad Abbas was till the best Pakistani pacer in second test, even though he was the slowest.
3. ABD hasn’t played outside Asia yet. When we say Away, we meant performances in SENA not Bangla and SL.

 

[emranabbas]

I don’t get all the long debates about data and eye tests. Back in the day, we simply measured a player’s average in SENA countries to determine if they were decent, and it worked both ways for SENA players aswell

Apne ghar mein to kuta bhi sher hai that was the saying back in the days.

Anyways Abdullah 3 matches in Australia and averages a 18

HTB as we use to call it

 

[Nasty Naz]

I don’t get all the long debates about data and eye tests. Back in the day, we simply measured a player’s average in SENA countries to determine if they were decent, and it worked both ways for SENA players aswell

Apne ghar mein to kuta bhi sher hai that was the saying back in the days.

Anyways Abdullah 3 matches in Australia and averages a 18

HTB as we use to call it

How many players do well in their first tour to Australia? Unlike some teams Pakistan don't even have A tours there either so you're literally playing in completely foreign and opposite conditions you are used to and against the best Test bowling attack.

Babar in his first tour to Australia: 68 runs in 6 innings for an average of 11. A high score of 23.
The conditions in Australia this tour weren't as flat either and runs were hard to come by for both sides.

The discourse on Abdullah has gotten to the extreme just like it did when Saim was struggling and when Saud was struggling. A player who played 1 FC match before coming onto the internationally team was bound to go through struggles & some highs and lows in his career.

Despite that, he has played some great innings in his early career and has shown a lot of potential.

- His batting in Karachi along with Babar vs Australia to help draw the match
- *160 unbeaten in a 342 chase vs SL on a turning pitch
- Double hundred vs SL

Opening is tough and yes he is jittery early in his innings and vulnerable to the ball coming in but a lot of batters struggle with that. What he has shown is when he gets set, he can play for a long time and go big. I don't mind him sitting out this series to go FC and work out some kinks there and hopefully comeback stronger. Just like the Saim & Saud discourse, if you're on the side of betting against him, you'll be on the wrong side.

 

[Jazx]

Musa khan is around 5 "10.

Whose 5 " 5. ???

Okay my bad, but I think just 5"8 not 5"10

 

[Jazx]

The first Test in the SA test series was on a green top and we had SA 99 -8 chasing 150 odd we should of won.

No question.

That was grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

That was poor from the bowling unit and atrocious captaincy from Shan. facts.

Shan has proven to be equally inept as Babar was with captaincy.


Most indian batters and most batter s in general score more heavily at home than overseas that is common.

ABD averages 45.13 away and 38.56 away.


The SA tour highlighted poor selection and not recognising conditions and its requirements by looking at data alone.

The hosts had 3 - 4 bowlers bowling 140 ks plus and we took domestic performers.

The results were plain to see.

Anybody who has played at a half decent level and has some basic knowledge of the game knows that pace is a must commodity at international level.

A question for you.

Look at the best attacks in the world like Aus , Eng and SA and tell me what do they all have in common?.

I would like to answer that-
Aus, eng, sa they all have skillfull bowlers with them which is common.
Whereas Pakistan was left alone with abbas.

 

[Human786]

Naseem playing just 1 Test in SA & now again rested defies logic . He is 21 & not 31 !!!
Will PAK play 2 pacers ?
Some1 said 90 overs per day not possible due to bad light in evening , any local guys around to confirm /

 

[gazza619]

I heard something about sky winning the rights for Pakistan matches in the UK,

I hope so. Sky sports prices are often reasonable for a monthly rolling contract.

 

[emranabbas]

How many players do well in their first tour to Australia? Unlike some teams Pakistan don't even have A tours there either so you're literally playing in completely foreign and opposite conditions you are used to and against the best Test bowling attack.

Does this apply only to Abdullah, or does it extend to other Pakistani players as well? I’ve been emphasizing the difference between playing conditions in Pakistan and abroad on this forum, especially for players who are dropped after just one series. Sahibzada Farhan and Usman Khan are top performers in domestic cricket under home conditions, and they should be rated just as Abdullah is, if he’s being praised for excelling in home conditions. But, of course, your stance might change when it comes to Sahibzada or Usman Khan.

Babar in his first tour to Australia: 68 runs in 6 innings for an average of 11. A high score of 23.
The conditions in Australia this tour weren't as flat either and runs were hard to come by for both sides.

Babar played A tours and Under-19 cricket before making it to the national team. I personally watched him play in England, and he had been on the radar for quite some time. He gained plenty of experience at various levels before breaking into the side.

The discourse on Abdullah has gotten to the extreme just like it did when Saim was struggling and when Saud was struggling. A player who played 1 FC match before coming onto the internationally team was bound to go through struggles & some highs and lows in his career.

Saim is a completely different caliber of player and can't be compared to Abdullah. We've seen Saim showcase his talent in the PSL, where he proved his ability. On the other hand, Abdullah is comparable to Imam in terms of his level.

 

[Omer2002]

Abdullah Shafique has played all his Test cricket in Asia, and when you look at the averages, Imam sits at 37 while Abdullah is at 38—not exactly a huge gap.

Abid Ali, on the other hand, has a much stronger record, averaging nearly 50 as an opener.

Abdullah is definitely a good batter, no doubt about that. But let’s be clear—he’s not as exceptional as some are making him out to be. His technique has some major flaws. Just because someone can hit a few nice drives with a high elbow doesn’t automatically make them a high-class player with perfect technique. We should look at data.

Absolutely as a die hard fan i agree with you. He has a technical flaw no doubt keep getting out the same way but he did get good balls not like 20 GIFTED wickets we actually gave in the test series against South Africa. I did agree him getting dropped as he got three consecutive first over ducks but i think it was unfair he shouldnt have been selected in One days otherwise was a guaranteed test team. Anyways hope he comes back i am sure he will or may get lost in the system

 

[Amjid Javed]

Huraira scored well in both inns of warm up game, so he should open in this test series.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pakistan will win, boring series

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

1. I am not sure if I came to the same conclusion. Had batters done their job and not thrown it away, a target of 250 would have been a game changer. First test was lost due to batting. Bowlers made a game out of 150 and kept us in the game.
During 2nd test, again out batting was poor in 1st innings, otherwise their 140 KPH bowlers also struggled in second innings.
2. I am not against bowlers who bowl with pace, I am against bowlers who only bowl with pace and have nothing else to show for it. If the option is to pick a raw pacer and domestic performer, then latter is better option because at least they will offer control. Mohammad Abbas was till the best Pakistani pacer in second test, even though he was the slowest.
3. ABD hasn’t played outside Asia yet. When we say Away, we meant performances in SENA not Bangla and SL.

Once you have the opposition 99 - 8 chasing 150 the loss is the bowling sides especially on that wicket which offered assistance to the quicks.

There is no two ways about it.

Again until the selections are horses for courses we will see the repeat of the 2nd SA test.

Domestic performers who don't fit the requirements of international cricket is worst than a Raw pacer.

Which is what the 2nd SA Test exposed.

You select players on their match winning potential for those conditions.

Abbas plus a couple of genuine quicks would of resulted in a different story.

How many tours has ABD had outside Asia so Far for you to judge his success levels?.

He s played against quality sides like Eng and Aus and scored runs.

I thought you like Data.

You shied away from my question about what the best attacks have in common i.e Aus , Eng , SA.?

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

I would like to answer that-
Aus, eng, sa they all have skillfull bowlers with them which is common.
Whereas Pakistan was left alone with abbas.

So you admit the selection was poor.

Correct conclusion.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Okay my bad, but I think just 5"8 not 5"10

In the middle 5"9.

 

[Jazx]

So you admit the selection was poor.

So you admit the selection was poor.

Correct conclusion.

They are selecting one paced attack for home and away series. That way they will niether form a balanced attack and team, nor develop any world class bowler.

 

[Farabi]

Does this apply only to Abdullah, or does it extend to other Pakistani players as well? I’ve been emphasizing the difference between playing conditions in Pakistan and abroad on this forum, especially for players who are dropped after just one series. Sahibzada Farhan and Usman Khan are top performers in domestic cricket under home conditions, and they should be rated just as Abdullah is, if he’s being praised for excelling in home conditions. But, of course, your stance might change when it comes to Sahibzada or Usman Khan.






Babar played A tours and Under-19 cricket before making it to the national team. I personally watched him play in England, and he had been on the radar for quite some time. He gained plenty of experience at various levels before breaking into the side.




Saim is a completely different caliber of player and can't be compared to Abdullah. We've seen Saim showcase his talent in the PSL, where he proved his ability. On the other hand, Abdullah is comparable to Imam in terms of his level.

Great points.

Your comment about Sahibzada Farhan and Usman Khan is a reality check for biased posters who, much like the entire Pakistani cricketing fraternity, seem to think they have a crystal ball—disregarding actual performances in favor of subjective judgment.

When Sahibzada and Usman fail in Australia, it’s immediately blamed on their technique.

But when Abdullah Shafique—or any other favorite—fails in the same conditions, the excuse is always a lack of experience in Australia.

This kind of inconsistent thinking has been a major factor in the downfall of Pakistani cricket.

 

[Farabi]

You tagged me and stated something which I don't recall saying. I used Saud example to make my point not to compare. This will be my last post on this topic with you.

I distinctly recall you describing Abdullah Shafique as being of a higher class or light years ahead—something along those lines—when comparing him to Tayyab Tahir. If I’ve misrepresented your exact words, I apologize.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I distinctly recall you describing Abdullah Shafique as being of a higher class or light years ahead—something along those lines—when comparing him to Tayyab Tahir. If I’ve misrepresented your exact words, I apologize.

He is light years ahead of Tayyab Tahir

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

They are selecting one paced attack for home and away series. That way they will niether form a balanced attack and team, nor develop any world class bowler.

True.

Which is what I've been saying.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Its amazing to believe some people on this forum want to compare a proven international performer like ABD who averages almost 40 and whose scored runs against international sides like AUS , SL etc with domestic performers.

International level is a different class and ball game all together which only some players will make the step up.

We have seen domestic performers getting hammered in the 2nd SA Test if you don't select the right skill set and characteristics according to conditions.

 

[khyberlion]

I distinctly recall you describing Abdullah Shafique as being of a higher class or light years ahead—something along those lines—when comparing him to Tayyab Tahir. If I’ve misrepresented your exact words, I apologize.

This probably sounds right I do believe the ability has has is far better than Tayyab. In terms of ability he is better than Tayyab but ability alone is nothing without performances.

 

[shamaan]

This probably sounds right I do believe the ability has has is far better than Tayyab. In terms of ability he is better than Tayyab but ability alone is nothing without performances.

What performance has Tayyab Tahir got baring 1 or 2.

 

[Farabi]

He is light years ahead of Tayyab Tahir

Based on your assumptions. I would like to see Tayyab Tahir play the same number of games in ODIs and comment after that.

 

[Farabi]

What performance has Tayyab Tahir got baring 1 or 2.

That is precisely my point. How many games has he played?

 

[khyberlion]

What performance has Tayyab Tahir got baring 1 or 2.

You have missed the mark. I am talking about something else. Tayyab is a very poor bat.

 

[Farabi]

Its amazing to believe some people on this forum want to compare a proven international performer like ABD who averages almost 40 and whose scored runs against international sides like AUS , SL etc with domestic performers.

International level is a different class and ball game all together which only some players will make the step up.

We have seen domestic performers getting hammered in the 2nd SA Test if you don't select the right skill set and characteristics according to conditions.

Actually, I am the one against comparing the two. You all have already compared Abdullah and Tayyab and come to the conclusion that Abdullah’s ability is “light years” ahead.
I am saying I DONT KNOW yet.
What @emranabbas and I are saying is that let both play equal number of games and then compare them.
Don’t jump to conclusions before giving proper chances to domestic performers.
Cricket is a funny game. Where some regal talents have failed, some talent-less duds have achieved a lot.

 

[Farabi]

You have missed the mark. I am talking about something else. Tayyab is a very poor bat.

I’m not doubting your judgment—you mentioned you’re a batting coach, so you’ve probably got more insight than most.

My point isn’t about Abdullah, Tayyab, or any one player. It’s about having a clear, fair process for young players that’s objective and based on merit.

Sure, some people genuinely have an eye for talent, and I’m sure you could be one of them. But in Pakistan, it feels like everyone in the system thinks they have this magic ability. It’s turned into a mess. Our system just isn’t set up for this kind of subjectivity. We need data-driven processes to stop coaches and selectors from using personal opinions to ruin careers.

With Abdullah, I like him as a player, but I wish he wasn’t fast-tracked based on eye tests and then carried around on tours while sitting on the bench. He should’ve played more domestic cricket, scored runs, and earned his spot. If we’d done that, he’d probably be debuting now or in a couple of years, with his flaws worked out.

It sucks that he’s been dropped now because he’s better than most of the domestic guys who’ll replace him. The process is just broken!

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Actually, I am the one against comparing the two. You all have already compared Abdullah and Tayyab and come to the conclusion that Abdullah’s ability is “light years” ahead.
I am saying I DONT KNOW yet.
What @emranabbas and I are saying is that let both play equal number of games and then compare them.
Don’t jump to conclusions before giving proper chances to domestic performers.
Cricket is a funny game. Where some regal talents have failed, some talent-less duds have achieved a lot.

The truth is TT is highly unlikely to play as many games as he is competing with the likes of KG , Saud and others and they are way ahead.

If he was as good or better than them he would be playing.

He is a fill in player at best and may get opportunities at T20 s.

ABD is a Top order batter with proven pedigree and TT is not.

ABD was fast tracked for a reason and he has shown he can score big hundreds and doubles at international level.

TT is 31- 32 with better middle order players ahead of him.

Farhan , TT etc are the same level players.

 

[Farabi]

The truth is TT is highly unlikely to play as many games as he is competing with the likes of KG , Saud and others and they are way ahead.

If he was as good or better than them he would be playing.

He is a fill in player at best and may get opportunities at T20 s.

ABD is a Top order batter with proven pedigree and TT is not.

ABD was fast tracked for a reason and he has shown he can score big hundreds and doubles at international level.

TT is 31- 32 with better middle order players ahead of him.

Farhan , TT etc are the same level players.

Yup, not much I disagree with there.

But I don’t think fast-tracking Abdullah was successful right. It’s been a major flop—he’s already been dropped. Fast-tracking would’ve been a success if he had cemented his spot in the side.
You still haven’t understood my central point. I am not against Abdullah, I am against fast-tracking of youngsters.
He should’ve gained more domestic experience first to be better prepared. Maybe if he had 3-4 years of raghra in domestic, he would have excelled and cemented his spot. Hes dropped now!

 

[BouncerGuy]

I want to see Huraira with Shan instead of Imam. Huraira has been warming bench for a long time now and it will be injustice to prefer Imam over him here.

Huraira
Shan
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Riz
Salman
Should be the batting order.

 

[Human786]

Pakistan will win, boring series

It seems due to haze playing hours might be curtailed every day !

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@Farabi I agree with your points regarding these players. Abdullah would probably have been in a better place had he played more cricket rather than being carried around on tour to your for no reason and while I don't think Tayyib is special he has been mucked around in his short career.

No disagreement with you at all on this.

 

[emranabbas]

Actually, I am the one against comparing the two. You all have already compared Abdullah and Tayyab and come to the conclusion that Abdullah’s ability is “light years” ahead.
I am saying I DONT KNOW yet.
What @emranabbas and I are saying is that let both play equal number of games and then compare them.
Don’t jump to conclusions before giving proper chances to domestic performers.
Cricket is a funny game. Where some regal talents have failed, some talent-less duds have achieved a lot.

This is exactly my point, and it’s based on real scenarios:

Player A excels in domestic cricket, becomes a top performer, and earns a tour to Australia. However, after two poor games, experts on this forum are quick to criticize, dissecting his technique and finding faults.

On the other hand, Player B struggles in domestic cricket but still gets selected for the Australian tour. Even after performing poorly in two games there, the same experts excuse his performance, blaming "different conditions" or saying "it’s his first time playing in Australia."

You can’t expect players who have spent their entire careers playing in Pakistan to suddenly excel in challenging foreign conditions from game one. The solution lies in developing young players, who still have a significant part of their careers ahead, for these conditions. This should be done under coaches who can communicate effectively, not foreign coaches who struggle with Urdu. Communication is critical in coaching. That’s why I support Aqib Javed, and we’re already seeing positive results.

Imagine asking a Pakistani rickshaw driver to pilot a plane from Pakistan to Australia or to learn how to do it in a language he doesn’t understand. No one would risk their lives in such a scenario. But if he’s taught in a language he understands, he would succeed.

This is precisely why we need a local (desi) coach, rather than hiring foreign coaches with fancy names who can’t bridge the communication gap.

People who you are arguing with are waste of time one of them thinks he's a cricket expert and if one of the domestic performers fails after 2 games he will start fighting with you and start quoting your old posts I've been through this discussion I wouldn't waste your time.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Yup, not much I disagree with there.

But I don’t think fast-tracking Abdullah was successful right. It’s been a major flop—he’s already been dropped. Fast-tracking would’ve been a success if he had cemented his spot in the side.
You still haven’t understood my central point. I am not against Abdullah, I am against fast-tracking of youngsters.
He should’ve gained more domestic experience first to be better prepared. Maybe if he had 3-4 years of raghra in domestic, he would have excelled and cemented his spot. Hes dropped now!

I realise your saying your not against ABD and that you trust data over eye tests.

However judgement combined with technology and performances to analyse players gives a more rounded view

The facts are fast tracking ABD has worked and been a success as he has translated that in to significant scores at the international level and averages almost 40 with the bat.

He has a better average than the Pakistan Test captain.

Getting a few ducks doesn't take away from that.

Had he been averaging 25 with the bat you could label it a failed experiment.

You have to understand in sport there are levels. That is the Crucial and critical point.

This is the point your constantly missing.

Some will have the ability to make it, Some have the ability but due to circumstances don't make it and others are just not international class.

It is the initial judgements that allow you to progress to the next stage to determine which categories people fall in.

sometimes there are players who are in the middle who could go either way.

Players like TT , Farhan etc are not international class.

People who understand about the finer intricacies of cricket know what I'm talking about.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

I want to see Huraira with Shan instead of Imam. Huraira has been warming bench for a long time now and it will be injustice to prefer Imam over him here.

Huraira
Shan
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Riz
Salman
Should be the batting order.

It would be good to see Huraira but Imam s form will likely get him the nod.

 

[Human786]

It seems due to haze playing hours might be curtailed every day !

does bring DRAW in to contention , any reports about the pitch & pictures boys ?

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

does bring DRAW in to contention , any reports about the pitch & pictures boys ?

Rank turners it will spin from day 1

 

[Human786]

Rank turners it will spin from day 1

any pictures of pitch & how many overs we get per day ?

 

[emranabbas]

I realise your saying your not against ABD and that you trust data over eye tests.

However judgement combined with technology and performances to analyse players gives a more rounded view

The facts are fast tracking ABD has worked and been a success as he has translated that in to significant scores at the international level and averages almost 40 with the bat.

He has a better average than the Pakistan Test captain.

Getting a few ducks doesn't take away from that.

Had he been averaging 25 with the bat you could label it a failed experiment.

You have to understand in sport there are levels. That is the Crucial and critical point.

This is the point your constantly missing.

Some will have the ability to make it, Some have the ability but due to circumstances don't make it and others are just not international class.

It is the initial judgements that allow you to progress to the next stage to determine which categories people fall in.

sometimes there are players who are in the middle who could go either way.

Players like TT , Farhan etc are not international class.

People who understand about the finer intricacies of cricket know what I'm talking about.

The method or criteria you're using is flawed. Shan and Abdullah have faced different opponents, bowling attacks, and conditions throughout their careers. To make a fair comparison, let's analyze the 8 matches they played together, where they faced the same teams, bowlers, and conditions and playing in almost same position.

First series was in Australia vs Australia, Perth Melbourne and Sydney


Abdullah 42 & 2
Shan 30 & 2

Abdullah 62 & 4
Shan 54 & 60

Abdullah 0 & 0
Shan 35 & 0

Average - Abdullah 18 Shan 30

Second series was in Pakistan vs Bangladesh In Rawalpindi

Abdullah 2 & 37
Shan 6 & 14

Abdullah 0 & 3
Shan 57 & 28

Average - Abdullah 10 Shan 26

Third series was in Pakistan vs England multan and pindi

Abdullah 102 & 0
Shan 151 & 11

Abdullah 7 & 4
Shan 3 & 11

Abdullah 14 & 5
Shan 19 & 23

Average - Abdullah 26 Shan 45


When you break it all down, Abdullah isn’t any better than Shan, especially considering Shan has outperformed him in every match and series. It’s better to rely on the numbers rather than eye tests, or perhaps consider changing the optician.

You can't vouch for Abdullah and call Shan rubbish when numbers tell a different story they either both good or both rubbish

 

[emranabbas]

@Farabi

and just to add noman ali, sajid khan, kamran ghulam, saim ayub, saud shakeel, salman agha were not selected based on eyes tests they were selected based on performance in domestic and data proved it.