Pakistan cricket has failed to produce a truly world-class cricketer for many years

[Saj]

When I say world-class I mean a genuinely world-class cricketer not a flash in the pan, not someone who might become a world-beater, not someone who performs now and then.

 

[mz123]

I think this is the case with many countries....

 

[Haroon786]

I think this is the case with many countries....

India - Kohli and Ashwin.
Australia - Hazelwood and Starc.
England - Root.
South Africa - De Kock and Rabada.
New Zealand - Williamson.
Sri Lanka - Kusal Mendis.
WI - probably not WC, but Darren Bravo is very good.

 

[Bilal7]

Are we being serious right now? Younis Khan has been a world class cricketer for a decade now. Saeed Ajmal was the best spin bowler in the world for a period of three years. Yasir Shah is either the first or second test match spin bowler in the world right now. Azhar Ali has been world class for the last two years.

You could say that we haven't produced a world class pace bowler but even then, Junaid Khan was terrific in 2013 and Riaz is the best Asian pacer around.

 

[Markhor]

I'm particularly worried about the bowling stocks. It seems Pakistani pacers have forgotten how to use the new ball and bowl on flat tracks. The way we bowled with the new Kookaburra in this series was appalling. We also allowed England off to flying starts in nearly every innings last summer too.

 

[mz123]

India - Kohli and Ashwin.
Australia - Hazelwood and Starc.
England - Root.
South Africa - De Kock and Rabada.
New Zealand - Williamson.
Sri Lanka - Kusal Mendis.
WI - probably not WC, but Darren Bravo is very good.

Kohli: yes
Ashwin: would be like yasir outside ASIA
Root:yes
South Africa: -De Kock: inconsistent
-Rabada: leaks way too many runs
New zealand: WIlliamson is not good enough in t20s.
Sri Lanka: Please...what is this? Average of 31 in tests....

 

[Third_Umpire]

Aamir was a world class bowler before the incident, so was Asif. So in the last several years, we have produced two, they just haven't been able to keep their heads in the right place!

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

We need to be playing at home to produce world class players.

 

[muqarrab]

Only WC player we had in the last 10 yrs was Asif......

 

[Haroon786]

Kohli: yes
Ashwin: would be like yasir outside ASIA
Root:yes
South Africa: -De Kock: inconsistent
-Rabada: leaks way too many runs
New zealand: WIlliamson is not good enough in t20s.
Sri Lanka: Please...what is this? Average of 31 in tests....

Nope Ashwin is world class.

De Kock averages mid 40s in both formats iirc, that is far from inconsistent.

Rabada is WC, doesn't matter if your ER is slightly high when you have an average of 22 and SR of 37.

Williamson is WC, T20Is don't come into the equation since they're not important for most people. Besides he's quality in the other two formats.

Mendis is the only one that can be termed as not WC right now but as someone with WC potential, his 176 vs Australia is what coloured my judgement of him it was a brilliant knock but he hasn't kicked on yet from that.

 

[Abdullah719]

Are we being serious right now? Younis Khan has been a world class cricketer for a decade now. Saeed Ajmal was the best spin bowler in the world for a period of three years. Yasir Shah is either the first or second test match spin bowler in the world right now. Azhar Ali has been world class for the last two years.

You could say that we haven't produced a world class pace bowler but even then, Junaid Khan was terrific in 2013 and Riaz is the best Asian pacer around.

Younis is the last world-class cricketer we've produced.

The likes of Azhar and Yasir can get there eventually if they do well.

Ajmal is debatable and he debuted around 9 years ago.

 

[GrandMaster]

Kohli: yes
Ashwin: would be like yasir outside ASIA
Root:yes
South Africa: -De Kock: inconsistent
-Rabada: leaks way too many runs
New zealand: WIlliamson is not good enough in t20s.
Sri Lanka: Please...what is this? Average of 31 in tests....

Seriously? QDK
Test - Averages 51.85 at SR of 72.60
ODI - Averages 43.84 at SR 94.55
T20 - Averages 29.68 at 128.37

KW
T20 - Averages 37.06 at 123.14

 

[Abdullah719]

Australia - Smith, Starc, Hazlewood.
England - Root, Bairstow, Stokes in future.
India - Kohli, Ashwin, possibly Rahul, Pujara.
New Zealand - Williamson, Boult
South Africa - de Kock, Rabada

All these players are below 30, with the exception of Ashwin who's just over 30.

Do we have any players that are of a similar stature? Besides Azhar, who will turn 32 next month.

Yasir can be considered world-class but even he is 30 years old.

 

[Haroon786]

Australia - Smith, Starc, Hazlewood.
England - Root, Bairstow, Stokes in future.
India - Kohli, Ashwin, possibly Rahul, Pujara.
New Zealand - Williamson, Boult
South Africa - de Kock, Rabada

All these players are below 30, with the exception of Ashwin who's just over 30.

Do we have any players that are of a similar stature? Besides Azhar, who will turn 32 next month.

Yasir can be considered world-class but even he is 30 years old.

Boult has he done much in terms of performance outside NZ and a balanced record around the world ?

Also Yasir won't be getting testimonials anytime soon.

 

[Bilal7]

Younis is the last world-class cricketer we've produced.

The likes of Azhar and Yasir can get there eventually if they do well.

Ajmal is debatable and he debuted around 9 years ago.

I disagree, bro. Azhar is the best opener in the world at thr moment and in the last two years, he's averaged north of 55-60 in test cricket. Shah is world class at the moment too because he would walk into any team in the world, maybe except India where he would have some competition.

Ajmal isn't debatable either. He was the #1 ODI bowler for years and widely accepted as the best spinner in tests and T20s.

A world class cricketer for me is someone who would be able to walk into most if not all teams in the world. These guys were not ATGs but they've certainly been world class.

 

[GrandMaster]

TBH Pakistan cricket is heading towards rock bottom, even Bangladesh started producing more talented cricketers off late. The PCB need to be blamed for this, they have totally ignored the domestic circuit and busy minting money via PSL and scheduling extra series.

PCB is about to beat the WICB, being the worst cricket board in the world.

 

[Abdullah719]

Boult has he done much in terms of performance outside NZ and a balanced record around the world ?

Also Yasir won't be getting testimonials anytime soon.

He has fallen away a little recently but still has a solid record.

I would consider a bowler who did well in favourable conditions and was decent outside those to be world class. Somewhat like Anderson.

 

[Haroon786]

He has fallen away a little recently but still has a solid record.

I would consider a bowler who did well in favourable conditions and was decent outside those to be world class. Somewhat like Anderson.

I think there is sufficient doubt about how good he really is to shroud his contention of being world class.

I consider Anderson and Broad world class, but considering both debuted over 10 years ago, in Anderson's case nearly 14 years ago IIRC, they are too ancient to cite as new WC players.

 

[Abdullah719]

I disagree, bro. Azhar is the best opener in the world at thr moment and in the last two years, he's averaged north of 55-60 in test cricket. Shah is world class at the moment too because he would walk into any team in the world, maybe except India where he would have some competition.

Ajmal isn't debatable either. He was the #1 ODI bowler for years and widely accepted as the best spinner in tests and T20s.

A world class cricketer for me is someone who would be able to walk into most if not all teams in the world. These guys were not ATGs but they've certainly been world class.

A case can be made for Azhar now, sure. But as I've mentioned above, he's almost 32 while other teams have world-class cricketers in their mid to late 20s.

Yasir is still developing - he should have debuted years earlier and could have been world-class by now.

Ajmal is debatable due to the chucking factor for some people, plus he's almost 40 years old.

Where is our generation of cricketers in their mid to late 20s who can compete with the best?

 

[Saj]

I think this is the case with many countries....

Kohli India
Williamson NZ
Root Eng
Smith Aus
De Villiers SA

A few that spring to mind.

 

[Abdullah719]

I think there is sufficient doubt about how good he really is to shroud his contention of being world class.

I consider Anderson and Broad world class, but considering both debuted over 10 years ago, in Anderson's case nearly 14 years ago IIRC, they are too ancient to cite as new WC players.

I was using Anderson as a comparative example to Boult - someone who has done well in favourable conditions and decently elsewhere, though the former is in the latter stages of his career and has obviously achieved a lot more.

 

[Saj]

I would also add that Younis Khan is probably the last world-class cricketer that Pakistan has produced.

 

[The_KING]

I would also add that Younis Khan is probably the last world-class cricketer that Pakistan has produced.

No, I would say Asif is the last world class cricketer that we have produced.

 

[Rayyman]

Hopefully Amir can get there.

 

[Bilal7]

A case can be made for Azhar now, sure. But as I've mentioned above, he's almost 32 while other teams have world-class cricketers in their mid to late 20s.

Yasir is still developing - he should have debuted years earlier and could have been world-class by now.

Ajmal is debatable due to the chucking factor for some people, plus he's almost 40 years old.

Where is our generation of cricketers in their mid to late 20s who can compete with the best?

Yes, this is a fair point and something I have been lamenting over as well. Pakistani cricketers reach the next level when they are 30+ which does not allow them yo dominate the cricketing landscape for more than four-five years.

 

[Ab Fan]

If its about performance across both formats, then yes..

Younis, Yasir and perhaps Azhar too have ben world class in tests but poor in odi formats.

However in tests, Younis is defo a great test batsmen and Yasir is a world class bowler.

Azhar is a very good batsmen and a great opener.

 

[Black Zero]

We actually produced two:

Yasir (second fastest to get 100 wickets, it's not a flash in pan)
and
Azhar (one of very few pakistani batsmen to score 1000 runs in a year)

 

[fast1975]

Are we being serious right now? Younis Khan has been a world class cricketer for a decade now. Saeed Ajmal was the best spin bowler in the world for a period of three years. Yasir Shah is either the first or second test match spin bowler in the world right now. Azhar Ali has been world class for the last two years.

You could say that we haven't produced a world class pace bowler but even then, Junaid Khan was terrific in 2013 and Riaz is the best Asian pacer around.

so junaid and whab riaz were world class..
allah o akbar....kar lo baat.

 

[LegendInzi]

Lol at folks calling Azhar Ali a world class! Shows how far down our standards of greatness have come.

Asif yes, was the last WC player. I wouldn't even consider UAEnis Khan as WC given his ODI struggles.

 

[ExplicitAI]

We wrist slit so bad nowadays.
World class players are Younis Khan, Yasir Shah and Azhar Ali.

 

[Bilal7]

Lol at folks calling Azhar Ali a world class! Shows how far down our standards of greatness have come.

Asif yes, was the last WC player. I wouldn't even consider UAEnis Khan as WC given his ODI struggles.

What are you, someone who grew up watching Bradman? Azhar averages 60-odd over the past two years and has recently scored a century in England, a double in Australia and a triple in the UAE. His overall average is 47.

Lol at Younis Khan not being a world class player. Just another wrist-slitter.

so junaid and whab riaz were world class..
allah o akbar....kar lo baat.

Thori pari likkhi baat kar lo. Junaid averaged 25 and below in both tests and ODIs in 2012-13, I believe. That's world class.

Riaz probably isn't world class, no Asian pacer currently is but he's the best from that continent.

 

[saeedhk]

All of our current bowlers are mediocre including Amir; the same for batsmen. A serious dearth of talent. Currently, we are on par or slightly below Bangladesh in ODIs.

 

[Buffet]

When I say world-class I mean a genuinely world-class cricketer not a flash in the pan, not someone who might become a world-beater, not someone who performs now and then.

Most countries have maximum 1-2 players who are world beaters. I am talking about players who are gun in longer and shorter formats. Pakistan not having those world beaters is not a huge deal.

Over all, YK, Yasir etc are not good enough to be counted as world beaters because they are not good enough to even play shorter formats. They are limited players who are suitable for one format.

 

[Zak_Fan]

What are you, someone who grew up watching Bradman? Azhar averages 60-odd over the past two years and has recently scored a century in England, a double in Australia and a triple in the UAE. His overall average is 47.

Lol at Younis Khan not being a world class player. Just another wrist-slitter.



Thori pari likkhi baat kar lo. Junaid averaged 25 and below in both tests and ODIs in 2012-13, I believe. That's world class.

Riaz probably isn't world class, no Asian pacer currently is but he's the best from that continent.

Wahab is not even 1/4th of Shami. Also, the likes of Mustafizur and Ishant are well ahead of him.

 

[msb314]

I would also add that Younis Khan is probably the last world-class cricketer that Pakistan has produced.

Misbah was borderline world class in Asian conditions.

Asif was borderline world class too.

 

[MenInG]

I feel Amir is within striking distance of being that player

 

[Statsman]

What are you, someone who grew up watching Bradman? Azhar averages 60-odd over the past two years and has recently scored a century in England, a double in Australia and a triple in the UAE. His overall average is 47.

Lol at Younis Khan not being a world class player. Just another wrist-slitter.



Thori pari likkhi baat kar lo. Junaid averaged 25 and below in both tests and ODIs in 2012-13, I believe. That's world class.

Riaz probably isn't world class, no Asian pacer currently is but he's the best from that continent.

Junaid Khan is quintessential flash-in-the-pan. You got it all wrong bud.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Mark my words, Sharjeel Khan will be your truly world class player.

 

[uberkoen]

Wasims and Waqars and Imrans do not emerge from an assembly line. Tape ball cricket does not produce them. A sophisticated combination of circumstances, good fortune and super human effort might, and only might, result in a Wasim Akram. It is no surprise that such superstars have emerged, even in Pakistan at the rate of about 1 per decade. If Fazal emerged in the 1950s, Imran did in the 1970s, Wasim in the 1980s, Waqar in 1990s, and Shoaib in the 2000s. Give or take a couple of years. At least one out of Mohammad Asif or Mohammad Amir might have gone on to command a spot next to these superstars, but then again, even without the tragedy of spot-fixing, they might not.

However, all is not doom and gloom. We are now starting to include a lot of younger players into the team which was something lacking in the past few years. The likes of Babar Azam, Hassan Ali, Rizwan have the potential to be very good players for Pakistan is not world class and honestly, if you ask me, I'd take a team of good players over a world class individual. It's a team sport and individual performances rarely ever win you games.

 

[A.A.Z]

Younis and Yasir are world-class test players, Azhar has been incredible this year in tests, his performance is on par with Kohli from 2014. Kohli was terrible in England and incredible in Australia, Azhar was solid in England and incredible in Australia just a shade below Kohli because of the difference in century conversion. Asif was world class in Tests.

Ajmal was a world class bowler across formats but extremely potent in Loi's, Gul was a world class T20 bowler for half a decade 2007-2012, and even Afridi was a world class T20 bowling AR. Amir was a world class talent but not world class and hopefully he can build up to that again.

Our next generation will be our worst ever they'll make Anwar Ali and Bilawal Bhatti look like world-beaters, but the generation after that may be much better. It's all a reflection of what's happening in the country, to understand this we have to look at things historically.

Pakistan's first two world-class players were Fazal and Hanif in the 1950's, Pakistan had nothing to do with the development of these players, they were formed by the infrastructure put in place by the British during colonial times. We also had Hashim Khan in squash and a great hockey team.

The 60's saw a dearth of any world-class arrivals, some good players but no world-beaters apart from Hanif carrying on, this maybe due to the fact that the 20 and 30 years olds in the nation had been through a difficult transition period. There was the second world war during which the British had extracted all they could from the colony to keep fighting the Germans, this resulted in the British being indebted to their colonies and the reason so many nations were given independence after the war. After independence there was a bloody partition and then the need for nation-building for the nascent nation with hostile neighbours around as well. Even though we had no stars in the team emerging in the 60's, it is the population born in this decade that went onto create the majority of our world-class athletes, for this we can thank American aid and certain policies taken by Ayub.

By the 70's we started to unearth a few world-class players but it was late 70's that saw the prosperousness of the 60's bear fruit. Imran and Javed were the main two, Zaheer to a lesser extent and a host of quality batsmen. The foundations laid in the 60's were so great that even the fall of the East wing and nationalisation couldn't deter the rise of our greatest sporting generation. While Hockey world cup trophy's were coming in cricket and squash were still taking a back seat.

The 80's saw the arrival of Wasim, Jahangir, Jansher, Hassan Sardar, and many quality sportsmen. Air Marshal Nur Khan's administration skills had a lot to do with this success. But while sporting-wise success kept coming certain things began to take shape which would harm the country in decades to come. Nationalisation caused economic decline a need for people to move abroad for greater economic opportunities, Islamisation caused further brain-drain as many members of the upper-classes fled the country, Zia opened the border with Afghanistan which caused weapons to flow in and student politics got weaponised, resulting in more people moving abroad.

The 90's was our last decade of sporting success, the 92 world cup, the 94 hockey world cup, and Jansher winning the 96 world open are our last world titles apart from success in different formats of cricket. During the 90's we saw, Waqar, Saeed Anwar, Inzi, Saqlain, Shoaib, and Yousuf emerge, as well as Shahbaz Sr. and Sohail Abbas in squash. The fall of the Soviet Union caused American foriegn policy to shift towards India from Pakistan and going ahead with the nuclear explosion lost us almost all friends apart from the muslim nations. Political uncertainty with 4 elected goverments dismissed one after the other also saw a frequncy in batting collapses even with an uber talented side. Openly corrupt governments saw the emergence of match-fixing of which we became kings, and only the ignorant today turn a blind eye to as if it didn't happen or that it happened at a much smaller-scale than it actually did.

Sporting success declined in the 2000's our worst ever decade. The decade of terrorsim, and a civil war in the north-west, many more began to flee the country. American aid came in rolling in again to stem the bleeding over so slightly but this decade deteriorated the nation to another level. The last few world-class players came in during this decade but they were products of a bygone era, Younis, Umar Gul, Ajmal, Amir, Afridi the T20 player were all there but these quality of stars even though world-class weren't as good as the greats before. Nothing has hamred our cricket more than no international cricket at home. We still won the 2009 T20 World cup.

The spot-fixing sage took us to new lows which we didn't even think it was possible to reach. The loss of Ajmal and Hafeez to suspect actions has made us impotent in Loi's. Junaid and Irfan showed glimpses but injuires have held them back. Azhar, Yasir, and to a lesser extent Asad Shafiq is all we have currently. Misbah our wartime captain who's never captained at home took us to No. 1 in test cricket thanks to simply his military General like approach and a few greats continuing to play past their expiry date for the sake of the team still to be bemoaned by our people. There is still hope with CPEC, maybe the Chinese can bring about a sporting revival the way the British and American's did for us in the past, the generation of 2030 will be better than that of 2020. Currently lets just hope Babar Azam doesn't go down the same road as Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad, there are very tough times ahead but definitely much better one's after that and we should thank the Chinese for that.

 

[Hasan123]

A poor domestic structure doesn't help.

 

[Saj]

Hopefully Amir can get there.

Hopefully this, hopefully that. Great players and built on hopes and ifs and buts. They are made through a rigid and proper system and hard work.

 

[Saj]

We actually produced two:

Yasir (second fastest to get 100 wickets, it's not a flash in pan)
and
Azhar (one of very few pakistani batsmen to score 1000 runs in a year)

A world-class cricketer (Yasir Shah) isn't someone who has a good period and then nosedived. Consistency is the key surely.

 

[Saj]

Misbah was borderline world class in Asian conditions.

World-class players DO NOT just perform in certain conditions. They perform in ALL conditions.

 

[kingusama92]

A few months back and I'd have said Yasir Shah is world class.

Amir and Babar are the only ones now who have a remote chance.

 

[Sin Nombre]

A truly world class player is a true matchwinner across all formats.

The only ones that fit are

Kohli
Root
Starc

And that's it. AB was one as well. Steyn before his injuries too.

Then you have players who are top 5 in either tests or LOI and decent to good in the others. Smith and Ashwin both fall here. Younis at his peak too.

Finally you have the young guns who have excellent stats on small sample sizes. This is QdK, Rabada and Rahul in that order.

I don't consider KW truly world class. He is the statistically inferior Amla of this generation.

Pakistan has some in the next tier which are players who are excellent to world class in one format like Azhar and Yasir and potentially Babar in LOIs.

 

[Saj]

I feel Amir is within striking distance of being that player

He looked the part in 2010.

What I see at the moment is a shadow of the 2010 version of Mohammad Amir.

 

[Saj]

A poor domestic structure doesn't help.

Spot on.

This is what I have been saying. You don't produce Wasim's and Waqar's and Inzamam's every day with a pathetic first-class system.

 

[Hasan123]

Spot on.

This is what I have been saying. You don't produce Wasim's and Waqar's and Inzamam's every day with a pathetic first-class system.

I think some of our guys should look at playing first class cricket in England. Our domestic cricket seems to make players worse. Playing country cricket helped some of our legendary players such as Wasim, Waqar, and Imran.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

For me Amir of 2009-2010 was world class but I do not see him as a product of PCB. It was all natural ability with PCB's only role being selection and giving him oppurtunity.

Besides this Haris was near to World Class in terms of visible ability but his fitness was very poor right fro the start. For this I will give 30 % credit to Haris and 70 % credit to PCB for this failure.


Umar Akmal was World Class for few months only again he was all natural ability and PCB only selected him for Under 19, than Pakistan A and within 4 to 6 months he played for Pakistan.


Junaid and Irfan were never world class bowlers for me, not even in their peaks.


Now currently the only player who is product of PCB and can be termed as someone produced by PCB is Babar Azam. Despite 3 tons I can't say He is world class but He is a very Good player. Would give him Grade A. If he goes on to become World Class than It would be good.

 

[Saj]

I think some of our guys should look at playing first class cricket in England. Our domestic cricket seems to make players worse. Playing country cricket helped some of our legendary players such as Wasim, Waqar, and Imran.

Most of our current players are not good enough to play first-class cricket in England. The Counties would not be interested.

 

[Hasan123]

Most of our current players are not good enough to play first-class cricket in England. The Counties would not be interested.

Amir and sharjeel have deals. I think there would be teams interested in Babar, Azhar,Asad,and Yasir if they put themselves forward. Imad could get a t20 contract

 

[Saj]

Amir and sharjeel have deals. I think there would be teams interested in Babar, Azhar,Asad,and Yasir if they put themselves forward. Imad could get a t20 contract

Out of the two Sharjeel is only playing T20 for Leicestershire.

Nobody would be interested in signing Babar Azam etc as an overseas player. Yasir Shah, yes probably.

 

[Hasan123]

Out of the two Sharjeel is only playing T20 for Leicestershire.

Nobody would be interested in signing Babar Azam etc as an overseas player. Yasir Shah, yes probably.

It's all about contacts . , Pujara, Williamson, and Starc just to name a few joined counties before being fully established international players.

Need Wasim to put a good word in. I think there would be teams interested in Babar if he became available, look at the current English batting line up in tests it's made up of mostly all rounders which tells you that there batters in 1st class cricket aren't that great. So an overseas batsmen even a younger one maybe seen as a better opition than some of the English players.

 

[New Yorker]

When I say world-class I mean a genuinely world-class cricketer not a flash in the pan, not someone who might become a world-beater, not someone who performs now and then.

Yasir did enough on his run to 100 wickets in record time. Was briefly ranked no 1. He may have lost it completely, but I'd give it a few more series before calling the day on him.

 

[New Yorker]

A world-class cricketer (Yasir Shah) isn't someone who has a good period and then nosedived. Consistency is the key surely.

Indeed, also in failure. Two bad series is not a nosedive. The second fastest ever to 100 wickets, beating out Waqar, Murli, Warne, McGrath, is consistency.

 

[Saj]

Yasir did enough on his run to 100 wickets in record time. Was briefly ranked no 1. He may have lost it completely, but I'd give it a few more series before calling the day on him.

It's not about calling the day on him. The question is about world class performers and I don't think he can be included in that category at the moment.

 

[shaz619]

Are we being serious right now? Younis Khan has been a world class cricketer for a decade now. Saeed Ajmal was the best spin bowler in the world for a period of three years. Yasir Shah is either the first or second test match spin bowler in the world right now. Azhar Ali has been world class for the last two years.

You could say that we haven't produced a world class pace bowler but even then, Junaid Khan was terrific in 2013 and Riaz is the best Asian pacer around.

Khan is the last of his kind, we've not produced anyone on his level since who've displayed a great deal of consistency over a long period of time but Azhar Ali has great potential.

Ajmal is pretty much retired now, Yasir Shah is a work in progress who has done well in his young career thus far, Wahab is world class but not as consistent as we'd like, Amir has not found his best form as of yet and Junaid had faded away.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't see any out and out world class players coming up in the current side. Please don't say Babar Azam who is another average performer needing endless time to improve. Look at Kohli who almost from the start of his career has been a world beater. We are the only ones who intellectualise and complicate things by playing word games in an attempt to make average cricketers appear as world class.

 

[mr-k]

cricket will suffer same as squash and hockey.... when u dont have proper professional structure u will not get quality cricket. i have spoken to ppl who recently left for india for work with bcci. what they told me about pcb and specially najam sethi was shocking.

 

[Abdullah719]

I don't see any out and out world class players coming up in the current side. Please don't say Babar Azam who is another average performer needing endless time to improve. Look at Kohli who almost from the start of his career has been a world beater. We are the only ones who intellectualise and complicate things by playing word games in an attempt to make average cricketers appear as world class.

Babar

Test average 27 after 6 Tests.
ODI average 51 / SR 92 after 19 ODIs

Kohli

Test average 21 after 6 Tests.
ODI average 58 / SR 84 after 19 ODIs

Too early to make any definitive conclusions about Babar.

 

[Sachin136]

Only on here would you see people call Ajmal a world class cricketer.

 

[Rayyman]

Hopefully this, hopefully that. Great players and built on hopes and ifs and buts. They are made through a rigid and proper system and hard work.

According to Mickey Arthur, Amir's work ethic is second to none. So he works hard. All I can do is hope for the best and watch the matches though. I can't do much about the corrupt system.

 

[samiakh]

Spot on.

This is what I have been saying. You don't produce Wasim's and Waqar's and Inzamam's every day with a pathetic first-class system.

Ironically neither of them was really a product of they system. Wasim and Waqar had hardly played any FC cricket when they were picked and Inzi would have had a different career had Imran not backed him despite his failures in the World Cup. What has changed is that ever since Inzi's captaincy we have had a team environment that does not encourage young players. We don't take chances on people anymore we don't throw them into the deep end and support them. Even the PSL is disappointing in this regard. Most of the local players are above 30. No other league does this. Yes the FC system is broke but to be honest it was never world class but it's the environment around the team leadership and the administration that is the main cause of this.

 

[Stark]

Most countries have maximum 1-2 players who are world beaters. I am talking about players who are gun in longer and shorter formats. Pakistan not having those world beaters is not a huge deal.

It actually is. In fact, these times amply show how their ridiculousness has come back to haunt them.

The pakistani team has always been reluctant to don the tag of being a professional unit, and relied on individual brilliance to win matches in the past. Now that the performers are not there, the poor standards of the team means that they cannot come together as a unit to give a good/decent fight.

 

[Midwinter13992]

List of Current world class cricketers
Australia- Smith, Warner, Hazlewood, Starc
Bangladesh- Mustafizur, Shakib
England- Root, Cook, Butler, Anderson, Broad, Stokes, Bairstow
India- Kohli, Rahane, Ashwin, Dhoni
NewZealand- Williamson, Boult
Srilanka- Herath, Mathews
Pakistan- Shah, Younis
South Africa- ABD, Amla, de kock ,Steyn, Philander, Rabada, Abbott
WestIndies, Zimbabwe ,Ireland - No One

 

[JaDed]

I don't see any out and out world class players coming up in the current side. Please don't say Babar Azam who is another average performer needing endless time to improve. Look at Kohli who almost from the start of his career has been a world beater. We are the only ones who intellectualise and complicate things by playing word games in an attempt to make average cricketers appear as world class.

Kohli was dropped from the Indian test team after first Windies tour(although the tour didn't have seniors) in 2011 he was good only in ODIs then.

 

[PakLFC]

Kohli was dropped from the Indian test team after first Windies tour(although the tour didn't have seniors) in 2011 he was good only in ODIs then.

Even great players have off days. You can't compare a future great like Kohli to rubbish like Umar Akmal or an average performer like Babar Azam.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol at 'Wahab is the best Asian pacer'. ):

Pakistan have not produced a single world class cricketer since Younis, and even he is debatable/borderline.

This simply rubbishes the claim that we are blessed with the best talent in the world which deluded people like Imran Khan keep on repeating, and it also shows that our domestic cricket is completely outdated.

Pakistan cricket has been left in the dust by other teams. We have failed to keep up with the rest and the future only holds darkness for us because we will not do anything to improve our production line.

In 10-15 years, Pakistan will be minnows in all formats.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Lol at 'Wahab is the best Asian pacer'. ):

Pakistan have not produced a single world class cricketer since Younis, and even he is debatable/borderline.

This simply rubbishes the claim that we are blessed with the best talent in the world which deluded people like Imran Khan keep on repeating, and it also shows that our domestic cricket is completely outdated.

Pakistan cricket has been left in the dust by other teams. We have failed to keep up with the rest and the future only holds darkness for us because we will not do anything to improve our production line.

In 10-15 years, Pakistan will be minnows in all formats.

Disagree.

There are three major games in Pakistan which were followed since inception of Pakistan.

The first was hockey. Hockey before was played on natural surfaces and our players practiced hard on such surfaces and we ruled the hockey world for a while. However, gradually the trend started towards astro turf and artificial pitches. Those were deeply expensive and the government could not be bothered to install such turfs on every nook and cranny of Pakistan. That and the no-offside rule which the Europeans exploited to full effect marked the renaissance of European teams (more budget , more artificial grounds, more training all exploited very well).

Pakistan meanwhile imploded in hockey because they refused to accept the change in climate that had occurred with regards to hockey. They kept following old traditions and because of that they were totally outgunned by European nations.


The 2nd major game was squash. Now Squash was based on Pakistani heritage. It started from Rehmat Khan and his Jahangir Khan. Most importantly it was a family game. With the Jansher the last of the hard working Pakistani family reached its swansong. Now squash is mostly dominated by Egyptiatn French region and most players are over there.

It is interesting to note that Ramy Ashour who has won the World Championship several times while his Pakistani counterpart who also played World Juniors got left in the dust because of lesser work ethic or support (as was so claimed).

Now let's focus on cricket. Pakistan historically has been churning out cricketers since inception. Even though there have been ups and downs in cricket, never has been a time when cricket has completely fallen apart.

The key point difference between all 3 games are these:

1. Hockey is played at a professional level by many nations and is a technical game with Europeans fully investing the funds and money to become adept and world class at it. But countries like Australia and NZ also are not far behind when it comes to hockey.

2. Squash was dominated by a Pakistani family and as soon as they changed fields and retired, the squash in the country decimated.

3. Cricket has been dominated by many greats of Pakistan from Fazal Mehmood to Zaheer Abbas to Imran Khan to Hanif Muhammad to Wasim Akram to Inzimam ul Haq. Over the years we have repeatedly turned out stars that belong to different families and not restricted to one geographical area or domain.

Cricket is a sport that is professionally played by only 10 test playing nations at Test level and it is very hard to break through without the funds from ICC or government funds.

The fact that a game of cricket lasts 5 days means not enough interest is garnered by Europeans over a game that is taking way too long to complete.

Unless the Europeans and Americans get attracted by the T20 format, it is unlikely they will ever develop their game to match Pakistani test standards.

Because of this reason , your predication that 10-15 years Pakistan will be minnows is way off mark.

Cricket is way too of a different type of sport to ever fall to minnow level.

There will always be another Amir or Asif or Shoaib to let Pakistan keep at 5-6 positions or 3-4 positions in ODI and Tests respectively.

Only in T20 might Pakistan ever become a minnow, if Europeans or Americans show enough interest.

That's the way I see it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I know he failed in the test matches, but Babar Azam looks to have all the tools to develop into a great. Whether he will mature and learn how to pace his innings is the only question now.

 

[Mamoon]

Disagree.

There are three major games in Pakistan which were followed since inception of Pakistan.

The first was hockey. Hockey before was played on natural surfaces and our players practiced hard on such surfaces and we ruled the hockey world for a while. However, gradually the trend started towards astro turf and artificial pitches. Those were deeply expensive and the government could not be bothered to install such turfs on every nook and cranny of Pakistan. That and the no-offside rule which the Europeans exploited to full effect marked the renaissance of European teams (more budget , more artificial grounds, more training all exploited very well).

Pakistan meanwhile imploded in hockey because they refused to accept the change in climate that had occurred with regards to hockey. They kept following old traditions and because of that they were totally outgunned by European nations.


The 2nd major game was squash. Now Squash was based on Pakistani heritage. It started from Rehmat Khan and his Jahangir Khan. Most importantly it was a family game. With the Jansher the last of the hard working Pakistani family reached its swansong. Now squash is mostly dominated by Egyptiatn French region and most players are over there.

It is interesting to note that Ramy Ashour who has won the World Championship several times while his Pakistani counterpart who also played World Juniors got left in the dust because of lesser work ethic or support (as was so claimed).

Now let's focus on cricket. Pakistan historically has been churning out cricketers since inception. Even though there have been ups and downs in cricket, never has been a time when cricket has completely fallen apart.

The key point difference between all 3 games are these:

1. Hockey is played at a professional level by many nations and is a technical game with Europeans fully investing the funds and money to become adept and world class at it. But countries like Australia and NZ also are not far behind when it comes to hockey.

2. Squash was dominated by a Pakistani family and as soon as they changed fields and retired, the squash in the country decimated.

3. Cricket has been dominated by many greats of Pakistan from Fazal Mehmood to Zaheer Abbas to Imran Khan to Hanif Muhammad to Wasim Akram to Inzimam ul Haq. Over the years we have repeatedly turned out stars that belong to different families and not restricted to one geographical area or domain.

Cricket is a sport that is professionally played by only 10 test playing nations at Test level and it is very hard to break through without the funds from ICC or government funds.

The fact that a game of cricket lasts 5 days means not enough interest is garnered by Europeans over a game that is taking way too long to complete.

Unless the Europeans and Americans get attracted by the T20 format, it is unlikely they will ever develop their game to match Pakistani test standards.

Because of this reason , your predication that 10-15 years Pakistan will be minnows is way off mark.

Cricket is way too of a different type of sport to ever fall to minnow level.

There will always be another Amir or Asif or Shoaib to let Pakistan keep at 5-6 positions or 3-4 positions in ODI and Tests respectively.

Only in T20 might Pakistan ever become a minnow, if Europeans or Americans show enough interest.

That's the way I see it.

By minnow level, I don't mean that Pakistan will become an associate nation without a Test status and formal F/C structure. No, that will never happen for multiple reasons.

However, the gap between Pakistan and other major nations has widened considerably in the last decade or so and it is only going to get worse. We have been minnow level in ODIs for about 5-6 years now and that is reflected in our ranking, and I expect us to fall back in Tests as well if Test cricket evolves like ODI cricket.

Pakistan is cricket mad country with 190 million people and a cricketing heritage that goes back 60 years. Of course there is raw talent in Pakistan - any country with a sizable population that is crazy about a particular sport will always have talent for that sport, but raw talent which we like to gloat about means absolutely nothing.

What matters is your available talent, i.e. the players playing domestic cricket. Our available talent is comfortably below the other top teams and that is reflected in the fact that we have produced the least number of world class players in the last decade or so.

Things will only get worse if we don't wake up and do something about it, which we obviously won't, while other countries will get better and better at it. Take India's example. The BCCI in the 90's was as wretched as the PCB today.

They had Tendulkar but we had Wasim, before that they had Gavaskar and Kapil and we had Miandad and Imran. However, in the last 10-15 years, Indian cricket has left Pakistan cricket in the dust and will continue to do so. Yes they have the advantage of a wider talent pool, but that is not always definite.

Bangladesh has already managed to bridge the gap with Pakistan especially in ODIs and if things continue like this, whose to say that other associate teams won't overtake Pakistan in the next two decades?

 

[static]

Result of a pathetic domestic system. Never going to produce a world class player because of the system.

 

[Abid Z]

An interesting thread. Can be summed up thus:

Pakistan has produced a few world class players in the last ten years but PCB has failed to develop significantly any player in the last ten years, except AZHAR ALI, who is truly world class. This being defined by somebody being in the top ten ICC rankings consistently whether we agree or not.

Ajmal, Yasir, amir, Asif appear to be anomalies that appear to coach and develop themselves. They were world class due to efforts they put in themselves over the years and quickly fell by the wayside when they couldn't develop their game professionally for one reason or another. Only Azhar appears to have developed within the PCB system in leaps and bounds since debut in 2010. For some he still has a long way to develop. Yasir and amir we have to wait and see.

Almost every other team has world class players that develop from within.

English players develop from LIONS tours, ipl and county. Plus they have all kinds of analysts and coaches so you get butler and bairstow and root, developing and learning how to hit 6's for those bigger Odi totals.

Bangladesh also appear to have very good domestic structures in place and their new lot look brimming with confidence and professionalism. MMHS can tell us more.

India are miles ahead of other Asian countries because of their investments in youth development. They could put out a 2nd eleven that would still beat many teams. They are constantly looking to innovate and improve.

Australia are world no1 for exactly this reason that not only do they have very good domestic structures but their player development is fantastic. I think Darren Lehman has been a fantastic coach for them. He seems to know every players game inside out. Who outside OZ would have heard of handscombe before this series. He won't be quickly forgotten by Pakistani fans.

Returning to PCB, they have a knack for wasting talent. Misbah spent many years in the wilderness, Asim kamal was discarded too soon, even younis Khan had to go to OZ to develop his game. Mohammed wasim spent years in New Zealand, sadaf and others waste away in Uk minor leagues, Imran Tahir was finally polished off in South Africa

PCB junior coaches and academies must be complete rubbish and the conditions absolutely third class to not be able to polish the immense talent that exists in the country. But if they don't improve all we will get is flash in the pan performances, crooked bowling actions and promising careers cut short due to mental and moral frailty.

 

[the Great Khan]

Define world class. If your talking about a player who is WC in all formats then yes we dont have that at the moment. But if your looking at individual formats then we do have players who are world class.

Azhar Ali is a world class test batsman. There is zero doubt about it. Yasir is a world class test legspinner.
Shafiq is a world class number 6 in test matches. YK enough said.

Moving onto the game in general, I think in first class cricket we should go back to the departmental game. Flatter 4 day wickets and flat picthes for ODI cricket. We need to look at schools and university cricket and club cricket. I believe some initiatives are going on to spend money in these areas. The problem we have is we dont have people like Kardar or arif abbasi who had the gumption,education and strength to get things done. We have Najam...but he's better than Ijaz butt..

so to summarise we will keep fighting but until int cricket doesnt return home we will be at a disadvantage..we need the PSL to be played in Pakistan and cricket to be played at home!!

 

[Abid Z]

Define world class. If your talking about a player who is WC in all formats then yes we dont have that at the moment. But if your looking at individual formats then we do have players who are world class.

Azhar Ali is a world class test batsman. There is zero doubt about it. Yasir is a world class test legspinner.
Shafiq is a world class number 6 in test matches. YK enough said.

Moving onto the game in general, I think in first class cricket we should go back to the departmental game. Flatter 4 day wickets and flat picthes for ODI cricket. We need to look at schools and university cricket and club cricket. I believe some initiatives are going on to spend money in these areas. The problem we have is we dont have people like Kardar or arif abbasi who had the gumption,education and strength to get things done. We have Najam...but he's better than Ijaz butt..

so to summarise we will keep fighting but until int cricket doesnt return home we will be at a disadvantage..we need the PSL to be played in Pakistan and cricket to be played at home!!

I think we can all agree World Class means somebody who is in the top ten consistently in Odi or Tests (because you need technique and mental strength to survive 50 overs across a full season playing at home and away) To be in the top ten in BOTH Odi and Tests is quite hard and only players like Root and Smith, Williamson, Kohli can be up there, but they are truly modern players. Even Alistar cook cant manage both formats.

Flatter 4 day wickets and flat picthes for ODI cricket

I hope you are joking here. Flat wickets are exactly why our bowlers are dying a death and average batsmen prospering. You need truer wickets with a bit of bounce so batsmen can learn to take on the short ball and cut and hook confidently. If a ball is rising on a good length outside off on a flat Pakistan wickets it can be confidently driven on the up but the same ball on a bouncy wicket is gonna give a catch to mid off. Elementary really.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=31509]Abid Z[/MENTION] - the pitches aren't flat from the outset these days in Pakistan. I'll briefly clarify the issue.

PCB issued a directive around 2003 that the pitches in domestic cricket should be more sporting after the criticism that they were too flat and did not equip Pakistani batsmen for overseas tours. So we've gone the other extreme.

We're seeing an abundance of grassy pitches, sometimes so green they're barely distinguishable from the outfield, and offer extravagant seam movement. What offers further assistance to the seamers is that Pakistan's domestic season occurs during Oct-Dec during the colder season where overcast weather predominates especially in Northern Pakistan where most FC occur.

And thanks to PCB cheapskates, Grays ball is used in FC cricket which offers extravagant movement for the seamers. So an average seamer can simply land the ball on a length and let the conditions do the work, without any skill needed. This is killing our fast bowlers.

Also let's look at it from a batsman's POV. These pitches have little clay content so these are slow, low pitches that discourages fluent strokeplay and encourage survival. As a result, we're producing an abundance of limited front-foot batsmen who struggle to score against pace and bounce.

Then these pitches get baked under the sun over Day 2 and 3, becoming absolute phattas and batsmen are then able to simply hit through the line. This is why we see so many lopsided scorecards - take the QEA Final. These pitches don't even deteriorate so we're also seeing an abundance of wicket-to-wicket darters instead of spinners who can turn the ball and use loop and flight.

The numbers support how bowler-friendly our domestic pitches have become. The average 1st innings total in the recent QEA Trophy was 279, with 45% of all 1st inns scores under 250. In contrast, the avg 1st innings score in last season's County Championship Division 1 in England was 334 with only 28% of scores falling under 250. In the 2015-2016 Sheffield Shield in Australia, the average score was 300 (32% under 250).

These pitches are appalling cricket wickets and PCB must be held accountable.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

[MENTION=31509]Abid Z[/MENTION] - the pitches aren't flat from the outset these days in Pakistan. I'll briefly clarify the issue.

PCB issued a directive around 2003 that the pitches in domestic cricket should be more sporting after the criticism that they were too flat and did not equip Pakistani batsmen for overseas tours. So we've gone the other extreme.

We're seeing an abundance of grassy pitches, sometimes so green they're barely distinguishable from the outfield, and offer extravagant seam movement. What offers further assistance to the seamers is that Pakistan's domestic season occurs during Oct-Dec during the colder season where overcast weather predominates especially in Northern Pakistan where most FC occur.

And thanks to PCB cheapskates, Grays ball is used in FC cricket which offers extravagant movement for the seamers. So an average seamer can simply land the ball on a length and let the conditions do the work, without any skill needed. This is killing our fast bowlers.

Also let's look at it from a batsman's POV. These pitches have little clay content so these are slow, low pitches that discourages fluent strokeplay and encourage survival. As a result, we're producing an abundance of limited front-foot batsmen who struggle to score against pace and bounce.

Then these pitches get baked under the sun over Day 2 and 3, becoming absolute phattas and batsmen are then able to simply hit through the line. This is why we see so many lopsided scorecards - take the QEA Final. These pitches don't even deteriorate so we're also seeing an abundance of wicket-to-wicket darters instead of spinners who can turn the ball and use loop and flight.

The numbers support how bowler-friendly our domestic pitches have become. The average 1st innings total in the recent QEA Trophy was 279, with 45% of all 1st inns scores under 250. In contrast, the avg 1st innings score in last season's County Championship Division 1 in England was 334 with only 28% of scores falling under 250. In the 2015-2016 Sheffield Shield in Australia, the average score was 300 (32% under 250).

These pitches are appalling cricket wickets and PCB must be held accountable.

If PCB is making 80 million annually they need to do something about the pitches. They keep saying they will do something about the pitches and balls but never do.

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=31509]Abid Z[/MENTION] - the pitches aren't flat from the outset these days in Pakistan. I'll briefly clarify the issue.

PCB issued a directive around 2003 that the pitches in domestic cricket should be more sporting after the criticism that they were too flat and did not equip Pakistani batsmen for overseas tours. So we've gone the other extreme.

We're seeing an abundance of grassy pitches, sometimes so green they're barely distinguishable from the outfield, and offer extravagant seam movement. What offers further assistance to the seamers is that Pakistan's domestic season occurs during Oct-Dec during the colder season where overcast weather predominates especially in Northern Pakistan where most FC occur.

And thanks to PCB cheapskates, Grays ball is used in FC cricket which offers extravagant movement for the seamers. So an average seamer can simply land the ball on a length and let the conditions do the work, without any skill needed. This is killing our fast bowlers.

Also let's look at it from a batsman's POV. These pitches have little clay content so these are slow, low pitches that discourages fluent strokeplay and encourage survival. As a result, we're producing an abundance of limited front-foot batsmen who struggle to score against pace and bounce.

Then these pitches get baked under the sun over Day 2 and 3, becoming absolute phattas and batsmen are then able to simply hit through the line. This is why we see so many lopsided scorecards - take the QEA Final. These pitches don't even deteriorate so we're also seeing an abundance of wicket-to-wicket darters instead of spinners who can turn the ball and use loop and flight.

The numbers support how bowler-friendly our domestic pitches have become. The average 1st innings total in the recent QEA Trophy was 279, with 45% of all 1st inns scores under 250. In contrast, the avg 1st innings score in last season's County Championship Division 1 in England was 334 with only 28% of scores falling under 250. In the 2015-2016 Sheffield Shield in Australia, the average score was 300 (32% under 250).

These pitches are appalling cricket wickets and PCB must be held accountable.

said it better than I could..the pitches are terrible..inmho we need pitches that help the batsmen in the first two days and then the bolwer/spinners in the furth and fifth days..end of..that way we will get some good seamers who will realise that they really need to try their hardest to get wickets and coaches and scouts will look for paceman etc..and we'll get spinners who will need to spin the ball..

it doesnt matter what we do about our structure , if your playing on substandard surfaces your gonna produce substandard players..

 

[ExpressPacer]

I fail to understand the concept of this "World Class" player thing. Most teams only used to have one. Now, the best of teams have 3 or 4 at most yet they fail to win in alien conditions. You just need to focus on what sort of players you need for the situation. For example, India only have one truly world class player, Kohli. The rest, despite having terrific stats and numbers, are only good players. But the reason why India have found success is because they do not focus on this concept of "World Class" players, rather they concentrate on what player would be most suited to the conditions of a particular ground or country.