Pakistan FM Shah Mehmood Qureshi - "Muslim ummah and the world has interests in India"

[Instigation22]

The Muslim Ummah is more interested in India instead of their Muslim brethren.
SMQ also said that No Pakistani should live in fool's paradise regarding this matter.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Foreign minister Shah Mamood Quereshi is saying no Pakistani or Kashmiri should live in a fool's paradise re Kashmir, UN Security Council is not standing with pholon k haar. <a href="https://t.co/TRjf6e3VG1">pic.twitter.com/TRjf6e3VG1</a></p>— Naila Inayat नायला इनायत (@nailainayat) <a href="https://twitter.com/nailainayat/status/1160899802818912259?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 12, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Pakistanian]

While governments of Muslims are corrupt and only care about money, most muslims around the world are concerned and outraged for the people of Kashmir. The govts don't represent the people.

 

[Instigation22]

While governments of Muslims are corrupt and only care about money, most muslims around the world are concerned and outraged for the people of Kashmir. The govts don't represent the people.

Muslim Ummah in this case refers to the Muslim governments. It doesn't refer to the people.

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

Its well known arabs don't like pakistanis.

 

[Pakistanian]

Its well known arabs don't like pakistanis.

That's a generalization, most of them do not dislike Pakistanis.

 

[Hitman]

While governments of Muslims are corrupt and only care about money, most muslims around the world are concerned and outraged for the people of Kashmir. The govts don't represent the people.

So where exactly are the protests from muslims around the world?

 

[Varun]

So where exactly are the protests from muslims around the world?

Where have you been? British Pakistanis are in a perennial state of protest.

 

[Syed1]

So where exactly are the protests from muslims around the world?

Just because you have stuck your head in the sand like an ostrich doesn't mean rest of us have too.


This is from my city.

Protesters storm Toronto's Yonge-Dundas Square in support of Kashmir.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/08/kashmir-protests-toronto/

 

[Hitman]

Just because you have stuck your head in the sand like an ostrich doesn't mean rest of us have too.


This is from my city.

Protesters storm Toronto's Yonge-Dundas Square in support of Kashmir.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/08/kashmir-protests-toronto/

Thanks for the link.

 

[Pakistanian]

So where exactly are the protests from muslims around the world?

There have been many public protests in America by Muslims of many different races and most importantly for this generation most protests happens on social media which a great tool for activism.

 

[Pakistanian]

Where have you been? British Pakistanis are in a perennial state of protest.

In America, it's mostly Palestinians, Africans, other Arab Muslims, white reverts and Indian Muslims protesting against India. In the mosques and MSAs Kashmir is finally being discussed.

 

[xbronze]

In America, it's mostly Palestinians, Africans, other Arab Muslims, white reverts and Indian Muslims protesting against India. In the mosques and MSAs Kashmir is finally being discussed.

Yes, in your dreams. lol. Yes, because Indian muslims don't want Kashmir. They would rather Pakistani muslims have it.

 

[Pakistanian]

Yes, in your dreams. lol. Yes, because Indian muslims don't want Kashmir. They would rather Pakistani muslims have it.

A lot of Indian Muslims in America do not like the Indian govt, I have many Muslim indian friends who have told me that they're ashamed of Indians atrocities in Kashmir and some even support independence.

 

[xbronze]

A lot of Indian Muslims in America do not like the Indian govt, I have many Muslim indian friends who have told me that they're ashamed of Indians atrocities in Kashmir and some even support independence.

lol. And I don't have any muslim Indian friends. I sure believe you. And because they don't like the Indian government, they would rather have Pakistan keep Kashmir.

Okay, if you say so. Makes complete sense to me.

 

[rhony]

A lot of Indian Muslims in America do not like the Indian govt, I have many Muslim indian friends who have told me that they're ashamed of Indians atrocities in Kashmir and some even support independence.

They will say that to you while eating your biryani feast. During summer they go to India, spend time with family and friends and say......

 

[Pakistanian]

lol. And I don't have any muslim Indian friends. I sure believe you. And because they don't like the Indian government, they would rather have Pakistan keep Kashmir.

Okay, if you say so. Makes complete sense to me.

I'm talking about Indian-American Muslims. I don't know about your "friends" in India, they may have to be patriotic to prove their stripes. I never said they wanted Kashmir to be part of Pakistan, just that they should be independent from India.

 

[Pakistanian]

They will say that to you while eating your biryani feast. During summer they go to India, spend time with family and friends and say......

The ones I know were born here and only go back like once every ten years so they aren't hypernationalistic as your average indian.

 

[xbronze]

I'm talking about Indian-American Muslims. I don't know about your "friends" in India, they may have to be patriotic to prove their stripes. I never said they wanted Kashmir to be part of Pakistan, just that they should be independent from India.

Am talking about Indian-American Muslims as well.

So they don't like the Indian govt. so they would want Kashmir to be independent from India. Okay

 

[Pakistanian]

Am talking about Indian-American Muslims as well.

So they don't like the Indian govt. so they would want Kashmir to be independent from India. Okay

Nope, they understand the suffering of the Kashmiris and believe the indian occupation is illegal.

 

[ReverseHit]

And slowly the reality is dawning on them. Or maybe they knew from Day 1, but had to make noises to look competent and not caught off guard. Now they're just trying to wiggle their way out to reality.

 

[xbronze]

Nope, they understand the suffering of the Kashmiris and believe the indian occupation is illegal.

Even after Pak PM declared to the world that a Nazi/Hitler like genocide and ethnic cleansing was being conducted by India against Kashmiri muslims after 370 was revoked, the Ummah nations have either kept quiet or supported India.

Saudi actually turned around and invested BILLIONS of dollars in India. You think Saudis would invest BILLIONS in India if a Hitler style genocide of Kashmiri muslims was actually happening in India?

UAE also came out in support of India. Palestine silent. In other words the Ummah largely didn't buy the Pakistani narrative. (All these nations have diplomats/intelligence operatives in India and know the real picture on the ground).

And Indian muslims, you claim, are unhappy with the Indian govt. And so want Kashmir to be separated from India. That makes perfect sense. lol

 

[dildilpak]

Foolish to think anything will happen at the global level regarding Kashmir - the liberal media & some people will token protest obviously as they ought to, but no government will stick their neck out to punish India unless there was any documented large scale genocide which could lead to a nuclear war. If nobody could force Myanmar to stop atrocities against the Rohingyas, a tiny country most cant point out on a world map - let alone India. The Ummah is just a figment of imagination - it has not worked for the Palestine, Kashmir, Rohingyas or the Xinjiang Muslim.

 

[xbronze]

Foolish to think anything will happen at the global level regarding Kashmir - the liberal media & some people will token protest obviously as they ought to, but no government will stick their neck out to punish India unless there was any documented large scale genocide which could lead to a nuclear war. If nobody could force Myanmar to stop atrocities against the Rohingyas, a tiny country most cant point out on a world map - let alone India. The Ummah is just a figment of imagination - it has not worked for the Palestine, Kashmir, Rohingyas or the Xinjiang Muslim.

Great comment.

I actually read it twice. I couldn't believe that a Pakistani poster not named @Mammoon and especially someone named [MENTION=138530]dildilpak[/MENTION] could write such hard hitting honest facts not necessarily favorable to Pakistan.

While I wish I could have more comforting words for you and other Pakistani friends on this forum, the present situation doesn't hold out much hope for Pakistan unfortunately. I watched some videos online of protests by Pakistanis in Pakistan and by some expat Pakistanis, and I was truly struck by the intense pain and passion i saw in Pakistani people yearning for Kashmir. I was at a loss for words!

Can never imagine Indians so worked up in real life over Kashmir, though we fight well online about it. It would be hard to arrange a crowd in India to protest for 1 hour as passionately about Kashmir.

I just hope that the two nations don't come to war over it. Would be bad for both nations. I may be biased, but I feel it would be much worse for Pakistan (given India's much better economy and very closer relations with some 'key' nations for wartime supplies/reinforcements- Israel, Russia, US, etc. China's tendency to stay neutral militarily in other nations's war wont help Pakistan much). Especially with a very strong, pro-active, and efficient political leadership in India (Modi, Shah etc) who in my opinion also have the better foreign office and diplomatic corp.

The best case scenario is for status quo to stay. I just hope no one tries a misadventure like Pulwama 2 in India to get even with Modi/India.

May be several decades down the road, some smarter future generation on both sides handles or resolves the situation better than we ever could.

 

[Mamoon]

The fake pir is right. However, it appears that the reality has dawned on us after we got hung up by various state leaders, when we called them to whine about India.

Some more information on the fake pir: he sits cross-legged with an obnoxious turban on his head and collects money from his serfs.

In addition, he demolished the wall of the Bahauddin Zakariya University in Multan to accommodate guests for his son’s wedding reception.

A man like him is now our Foreign Minister and we expect wonders.

 

[Civil]

Great comment.

I actually read it twice. I couldn't believe that a Pakistani poster not named @Mammoon and especially someone named [MENTION=138530]dildilpak[/MENTION] could write such hard hitting honest facts not necessarily favorable to Pakistan.

While I wish I could have more comforting words for you and other Pakistani friends on this forum, the present situation doesn't hold out much hope for Pakistan unfortunately. I watched some videos online of protests by Pakistanis in Pakistan and by some expat Pakistanis, and I was truly struck by the intense pain and passion i saw in Pakistani people yearning for Kashmir. I was at a loss for words!

Can never imagine Indians so worked up in real life over Kashmir, though we fight well online about it. It would be hard to arrange a crowd in India to protest for 1 hour as passionately about Kashmir.

I just hope that the two nations don't come to war over it. Would be bad for both nations. I may be biased, but I feel it would be much worse for Pakistan (given India's much better economy and very closer relations with some 'key' nations for wartime supplies/reinforcements- Israel, Russia, US, etc. China's tendency to stay neutral militarily in other nations's war wont help Pakistan much). Especially with a very strong, pro-active, and efficient political leadership in India (Modi, Shah etc) who in my opinion also have the better foreign office and diplomatic corp.

The best case scenario is for status quo to stay. I just hope no one tries a misadventure like Pulwama 2 in India to get even with Modi/India.

May be several decades down the road, some smarter future generation on both sides handles or resolves the situation better than we ever could.

I think you showed you don't have a bias and you answered for yourself who the war would be much worse for brother. First when you stated Indian nation does not have the same passion for Kashmir regarding protests I would tend to agree. and then you stated Indian economy is better hence they have much more to lose. This points to all out war being terrible for both parties but relatively much worse for india.

Citing resources availability as you did is a moot point because this would not be a conventional war given the nuclear component nor a conventional war terrain.

But it does feel good to fit in a barb at the neighbours now and then and what better one then "one 3rd world country with tons of people below the poverty line is 'richer' than another third world country with tons of people below the poverty line! " What a riot

That being said time will tell if the future generations can correct this.

 

[Loralai]

The fake pir is right. However, it appears that the reality has dawned on us after we got hung up by various state leaders, when we called them to whine about India.

Some more information on the fake pir: he sits cross-legged with an obnoxious turban on his head and collects money from his serfs.

In addition, he demolished the wall of the Bahauddin Zakariya University in Multan to accommodate guests for his son’s wedding reception.

A man like him is now our Foreign Minister and we expect wonders.

Don't forget his embarrassing career with PPP before jumping ship. This man should not be involved in our politics in any event as he is simply incompetent.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

While governments of Muslims are corrupt and only care about money, most muslims around the world are concerned and outraged for the people of Kashmir. The govts don't represent the people.

Even secular Indians are in with you guys. You rightly pointed out that the governments don't represent the people or their opinions. Gujrat butcher is the last one to represent secular people like me.

 

[Loralai]

Even secular Indians are in with you guys. You rightly pointed out that the governments don't represent the people or their opinions. Gujrat butcher is the last one to represent secular people like me.

Respect. We need more people with secular outlook on both sides of border if we want to move forward.

 

[jadaja]

The reality which FM seems to have accepted is somehow not getting thru to PM Mr.Imran Khan.He is still playing it to galleries.

 

[Instigation22]

People here should realise that a lack of diplomatic success for pak can make things worse in the region.
Sometimes rash decisions are made when there is a lack of support. I am talking about a limited conflict (not provoking it though). This Kashmir issue is quite significant for pak and I don't think they'll let it slip out without giving a fight.
I've seen an article about this too.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Respect. We need more people with secular outlook on both sides of border if we want to move forward.

Thank you brother. We all should work for insaniyat more than anything!

 

[Instigation22]

People here should realise that a lack of diplomatic success for pak can make things worse in the region.
Sometimes rash decisions are made when there is a lack of support. I am talking about a limited conflict (not provoking it though). This Kashmir issue is quite significant for pak and I don't think they'll let it slip out without giving a fight.
I've seen an article about this too.

Here it is:
https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...LLC9e27VOTlgZk_Mc68&__twitter_impression=true


"The weaker and more isolated Pakistan becomes, the greater the risk it could hit out."

 

[rhony]

The ones I know were born here and only go back like once every ten years so they aren't hypernationalistic as your average indian.

So basically they are not Indian Muslims then. They are your buddies born and brought up here that go to India once in 10 years. And for some reason you seek comfort in these fake Indian voices. Ok

 

[rhony]

Even secular Indians are in with you guys. You rightly pointed out that the governments don't represent the people or their opinions. Gujrat butcher is the last one to represent secular people like me.

This man is the proof that Pakistanis are unnecessarily accusing India. "Ram Shekhar" is just showing that India has a tremendous future because of the presence of sane, secular people along with nationalists. His steadfast support to the core tenets of democracy and secularism are note worthy. Thanks Ram Shekhar for being a great representative of India and showing the rest of us that India is is on the right path as long as there are strong minded people like you

 

[Lonewarrior]

as i said before, this is pakistani govt official statement, so indians needs to chillax now .....

 

[JaDed]

as i said before, this is pakistani govt official statement, so indians needs to chillax now .....

Amazing smileys in the end, its like does he mean something else, does he know something else, such a guessing game, well done on it.

 

[Mueez]

Thank you brother. We all should work for insaniyat more than anything!

Kudos to you, brother.

I hope we have more people like you in the future at both sides of the border.

Only then will South Asia succeed.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Ummah shummah is just a drama to use Pakistani soldiers. There is no solution of Kashmir until this fire reached in every street of hindustan.
People wont agry with me and may be this comment will be deleted but if this fire & blood which have been limited to only kashmir since 70 years will remain in kashmir for next 70 years then nothing gonna happen.

The only solution is khoon ka badla khoon. Against kashmiris there should be a killing of hindustanis. Rap against rap, children against children. Fire should be reach to Bengal up cp dp south west east everywhere. Bcz it is easy to sit in peace & say kashmir hmara atut ang hei. Let the every hindustani feel the fear of death what poor kashmiris are feeling since 70 years.

 

[JaDed]

Ummah shummah is just a drama to use Pakistani soldiers. There is no solution of Kashmir until this fire reached in every street of hindustan.
People wont agry with me and may be this comment will be deleted but if this fire & blood which have been limited to only kashmir since 70 years will remain in kashmir for next 70 years then nothing gonna happen.

The only solution is khoon ka badla khoon. Against kashmiris there should be a killing of hindustanis. Rap against rap, children against children. Fire should be reach to Bengal up cp dp south west east everywhere. Bcz it is easy to sit in peace & say kashmir hmara atut ang hei. Let the every hindustani feel the fear of death what poor kashmiris are feeling since 70 years.

And how will you do that?

 

[Greenstorm]

Ummah shummah is just a drama to use Pakistani soldiers. There is no solution of Kashmir until this fire reached in every street of hindustan.
People wont agry with me and may be this comment will be deleted but if this fire & blood which have been limited to only kashmir since 70 years will remain in kashmir for next 70 years then nothing gonna happen.

The only solution is khoon ka badla khoon. Against kashmiris there should be a killing of hindustanis. Rap against rap, children against children. Fire should be reach to Bengal up cp dp south west east everywhere. Bcz it is easy to sit in peace & say kashmir hmara atut ang hei. Let the every hindustani feel the fear of death what poor kashmiris are feeling since 70 years.

Pakistanis as well. Indians are responsible for killing 50000+ Pakistanis in last 13 years alone. We should never forget this. Although we should never target civilians but I agree that we need to bring this war to India.

 

[rhony]

Ummah shummah is just a drama to use Pakistani soldiers. There is no solution of Kashmir until this fire reached in every street of hindustan.
People wont agry with me and may be this comment will be deleted but if this fire & blood which have been limited to only kashmir since 70 years will remain in kashmir for next 70 years then nothing gonna happen.

The only solution is khoon ka badla khoon. Against kashmiris there should be a killing of hindustanis. Rap against rap, children against children. Fire should be reach to Bengal up cp dp south west east everywhere. Bcz it is easy to sit in peace & say kashmir hmara atut ang hei. Let the every hindustani feel the fear of death what poor kashmiris are feeling since 70 years.

I bet there won't be killing of hindustanis under eternal curfiew. Because that's what it's going to be if there is violence. This is not congress trying to appease Kashmiris. BJP will try to make peace and if it doesn't work will go to extremes. Kashmiris will be watching hindu protected settlements being built on TV under curfiew. If they don't learn the path they need to take, they will be taught.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

I bet there won't be killing of hindustanis under eternal curfiew. Because that's what it's going to be if there is violence. This is not congress trying to appease Kashmiris. BJP will try to make peace and if it doesn't work will go to extremes. Kashmiris will be watching hindu protected settlements being built on TV under curfiew. If they don't learn the path they need to take, they will be taught.

No muslims of Pakistan hindustan and kashmir are taught a lesson by hindus that they should have changed the ****** peace path so earlier. There is no solution except khoon ka badla khoon.

And they should have learn the lesson that coward qoum always attack from behind and in dark. Its their history & its in their genes.

 

[Hitman]

No muslims of Pakistan hindustan and kashmir are taught a lesson by hindus that they should have changed the ****** peace path so earlier. There is no solution except khoon ka badla khoon.

And they should have learn the lesson that coward qoum always attack from behind and in dark. Its their history & its in their genes.

Is it? So who started Kargil in 1999, and Operation Gibraltar in 1965 from behind, India or Pakistan?

Or are you once again going to ignore my post?

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

And how will you do that?

You forget 47 I think, anyway ask this from your grandfather or grandmother, they will tell you how these musallay broke our dharti maa in pieces.

 

[Greenstorm]

I bet there won't be killing of hindustanis under eternal curfiew. Because that's what it's going to be if there is violence. This is not congress trying to appease Kashmiris. BJP will try to make peace and if it doesn't work will go to extremes. Kashmiris will be watching hindu protected settlements being built on TV under curfiew. If they don't learn the path they need to take, they will be taught.

Will India impose curfew in Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi etc ? Indians are lucky that Pakistani decision makers do not really understand the concept of enforcing 5th generation warfare. India deserves credit for keeping us on the defensive but this won't last for long.

 

[Greenstorm]

Is it? So who started Kargil in 1999, and Operation Gibraltar in 1965 from behind, India or Pakistan?

Or are you once again going to ignore my post?

Those operations were conducted to liberate Kashmir, a disputed territory. We never crossed International border.

 

[Hitman]

Those operations were conducted to liberate Kashmir, a disputed territory. We never crossed International border.

What exactly was claimed previously?

And they should have learn the lesson that coward qoum always attack from behind and in dark. Its their history & its in their genes.

BTW, you didn’t cross International border? What exactly did the Shimla agreement state that your then PM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto sign in 1972?

 

[Greenstorm]

What exactly was claimed previously?

These are generalizations that can be avoided. No qoum is coward.

 

[Hitman]

These are generalizations that can be avoided. No qoum is coward.

So now the claims you made previously have gone up in smoke?

 

[rhony]

Will India impose curfew in Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi etc ? Indians are lucky that Pakistani decision makers do not really understand the concept of enforcing 5th generation warfare. India deserves credit for keeping us on the defensive but this won't last for long.

People will change with time. Do you think any of the sikh kids care about Khalistan now? India won't impose Mumbai, Kolkata or Delhi because there is no Azadi beat there. Khalistan had that beat and was duly crushed. Kashmir will take a bit of time. As far as terrorism goes, how is that going to be different from before. There were always terrorists there and they will be there for a few more years or decades. The rest will carry on with their lives and slowly forget this. This is a generational process. Earlier generations of Kashmiris were peaceful, the gen from 90 have been violent. Who knows what the next gen will be? Atleast abrogation gives India some unique tools that can change the dynamic of the decades old game.

 

[Greenstorm]

So now the claims you made previously have gone up in smoke?

Which claim ? What are you trying to prove ?

 

[Hitman]

Which claim ? What are you trying to prove ?

You claimed that Pakistan did not violate International borders during the Kargil War.

What exactly did the Shimla agreement signed back in 1972 by your then PM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto state?

Or is this another propaganda by the BJP?

 

[rhony]

No muslims of Pakistan hindustan and kashmir are taught a lesson by hindus that they should have changed the ****** peace path so earlier. There is no solution except khoon ka badla khoon.

And they should have learn the lesson that coward qoum always attack from behind and in dark. Its their history & its in their genes.

Ladakh has been liberated from Kashmir. Jammu has been fairly independent and at large is at peace with this. It's a few districts in Kashmir. If what you said happens, army will try to push the rebellion into a narrow area street by street in a few years. That area will be managed accordingly while the rest of the state goes about their things like everyday people. There are tools now to impose political will. Slowly you will see hindu MLAs in kashmir areas if they boycott elections. If the participate in the elections, then India will claim that people accepted democracy and India. It's a game that India cannot lose.

 

[Greenstorm]

People will change with time. Do you think any of the sikh kids care about Khalistan now? India won't impose Mumbai, Kolkata or Delhi because there is no Azadi beat there. Khalistan had that beat and was duly crushed. Kashmir will take a bit of time. As far as terrorism goes, how is that going to be different from before. There were always terrorists there and they will be there for a few more years or decades. The rest will carry on with their lives and slowly forget this. This is a generational process. Earlier generations of Kashmiris were peaceful, the gen from 90 have been violent. Who knows what the next gen will be? Atleast abrogation gives India some unique tools that can change the dynamic of the decades old game.

Pakistan's strategy pre-Musharraf was cross border terrorism which apart from Kashmir was mostly counter productive in rest of India. Unlike India, we have never really tried creating and supporting homegrown Indian terrorist groups apart from Khalistan movement(which failed partly because of Zia's death). That is the way to go for future in my opinion, arming and training intrinsic Indian terror groups on a large scale and lets see how prepared Indian armed forces are to deal with multiple insurgencies simultaneously.
Although this is too much to ask from Pakistan atm because of our economic and intellectual destitution.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Ladakh has been liberated from Kashmir. Jammu has been fairly independent and at large is at peace with this. It's a few districts in Kashmir. If what you said happens, army will try to push the rebellion into a narrow area street by street in a few years. That area will be managed accordingly while the rest of the state goes about their things like everyday people. There are tools now to impose political will. Slowly you will see hindu MLAs in kashmir areas if they boycott elections. If the participate in the elections, then India will claim that people accepted democracy and India. It's a game that India cannot lose.

Lol my dear lol, you people are doing this since last 70 years & what is in your hands, blood of kashmiri children. Thats why I am saying that blood of hindustani kids will work. An expensive blood.

 

[Greenstorm]

You claimed that Pakistan did not violate International borders during the Kargil War.

What exactly did the Shimla agreement signed back in 1972 by your then PM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto state?

Or is this another propaganda by the BJP?

Operation Gibraltor which you mentioned was conducted before Shimla agreement. India was not acting in accordance with UN security council resolution on Kashmir, so Pakistan had to break promises.
Also, India had already violated this agreement via transgressions in Siachen area during early 1980s, an event which Indians conveniently ignore.

 

[JaDed]

You forget 47 I think, anyway ask this from your grandfather or grandmother, they will tell you how these musallay broke our dharti maa in pieces.

Dharti maa was never in one piece, Sikh Empire was broken by British with help of Dogras, my grandparents belonged to that region, enjoy what you got from British, you couldn’t kill the Sikh Empire, so maybe you need to zip it?

 

[Ram Shekhar]

This man is the proof that Pakistanis are unnecessarily accusing India. "Ram Shekhar" is just showing that India has a tremendous future because of the presence of sane, secular people along with nationalists. His steadfast support to the core tenets of democracy and secularism are note worthy. Thanks Ram Shekhar for being a great representative of India and showing the rest of us that India is is on the right path as long as there are strong minded people like you

Wow, thanks brother! I'm overwhelmed by your appreciation. I will hold on to the democratic principles no matter what happens and will always call spade a spade.

 

[rhony]

Pakistan's strategy pre-Musharraf was cross border terrorism which apart from Kashmir was mostly counter productive in rest of India. Unlike India, we have never really tried creating and supporting homegrown Indian terrorist groups apart from Khalistan movement(which failed partly because of Zia's death). That is the way to go for future in my opinion, arming and training intrinsic Indian terror groups on a large scale and lets see how prepared Indian armed forces are to deal with multiple insurgencies simultaneously.
Although this is too much to ask from Pakistan atm because of our economic and intellectual destitution.

It used to work a while ago because the jihadis were american pets. After US became a victim, the situation has changed. Domestic Indian terror groups have slowly alienated themselves from them. Indian Muslims have changed their stand along the way and with BJP in control, there is no pandering to Muslim fringe elements. They have been and will be crushed if they align themselves with foreign terror groups. India I think needs these external terror groups to play some part. It is in India's best interest as well so they can impose more on kashmir in the name of jihadi groups. India will be out of tricks if they impose restrictions with no violence. Once we see a few blasts, they will pick up the fringe elements like stone pelters and brand them as terrorists. There was a new law that passes recently where a ln individual doesn't need to be aligned with a terrorist group to be branded a terrorist. I think it was made keeping in view of this. Irony is Kashmir will get more into India's grip if there is terrorism. World doesn't have any sympathy for terror and it's India's goal to show kashmir as a terror stricken place rather than people seeking peaceful Azadi which is more dangerous. India can also checkmate Pakistan for any jihadi as they did with FATF irrespective of where those people come from including Kashmir.

 

[Greenstorm]

Dharti maa was never in one piece, Sikh Empire was broken by British with help of Dogras, my grandparents belonged to that region, enjoy what you got from British, you couldn’t kill the Sikh Empire, so maybe you need to zip it?

Sikh empire was an anomaly(owing largely to one man) if looked from a larger perspective.
It hardly left any impact on modern day Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

Sikh empire was an anomaly(owing largely to one man) if looked from a larger perspective.
It hardly left any impact on modern day Pakistan.

Ok? Doesn’t change the region and ethnicity my grandparents belonged to.

I know Dogras ruled more than Sikh empire by betraying them, but Junaid_Ahmeds ancestors didn’t defeat em, Brits did

 

[Greenstorm]

It used to work a while ago because the jihadis were american pets. After US became a victim, the situation has changed. Domestic Indian terror groups have slowly alienated themselves from them. Indian Muslims have changed their stand along the way and with BJP in control, there is no pandering to Muslim fringe elements. They have been and will be crushed if they align themselves with foreign terror groups. India I think needs these external terror groups to play some part. It is in India's best interest as well so they can impose more on kashmir in the name of jihadi groups. India will be out of tricks if they impose restrictions with no violence. Once we see a few blasts, they will pick up the fringe elements like stone pelters and brand them as terrorists. There was a new law that passes recently where a ln individual doesn't need to be aligned with a terrorist group to be branded a terrorist. I think it was made keeping in view of this. Irony is Kashmir will get more into India's grip if there is terrorism. World doesn't have any sympathy for terror and it's India's goal to show kashmir as a terror stricken place rather than people seeking peaceful Azadi which is more dangerous. India can also checkmate Pakistan for any jihadi as they did with FATF irrespective of where those people come from including Kashmir.

Most of your post entertains to cross border terrorism, 'Jihadis' sent from Pakistan, which I have already conceded, is counterproductive for us specially after 9/11. Additionally, it is highly impractical since India has fenced entirety of its physical border with Pakistan including LOC.

I believe that homegrown terror groups can be sprung up wherever there is adequate amount of hunger and poverty, only a small amount of ideological lineation is usually required. Dalits, ,maoists, Muslims ... can be invested in.

We will not have to worry about FATF if we remain professionals, after all what has India lost even after capture of Kulbhushans. Genuine spies and agents carrying out subversive activities on foreign soil instead of Hafiz Saeed etc is considered fair game in today's world.

This is the only option for us in the longer run and this is the way wars are fought in this day and age.

 

[rhony]

Wow, thanks brother! I'm overwhelmed by your appreciation. I will hold on to the democratic principles no matter what happens and will always call spade a spade.

You should. All the pseudo nationalists just say Jay hind. You feel it. I can tell.

 

[rhony]

Most of your post entertains to cross border terrorism, 'Jihadis' sent from Pakistan, which I have already conceded, is counterproductive for us specially after 9/11. Additionally, it is highly impractical since India has fenced entirety of its physical border with Pakistan including LOC.

I believe that homegrown terror groups can be sprung up wherever there is adequate amount of hunger and poverty, only a small amount of ideological lineation is usually required. Dalits, ,maoists, Muslims ... can be invested in.

We will not have to worry about FATF if we remain professionals, after all what has India lost even after capture of Kulbhushans. Genuine spies and agents carrying out subversive activities on foreign soil instead of Hafiz Saeed etc is considered fair game in today's world.

This is the only option for us in the longer run and this is the way wars are fought in this day and age.

Dalits, maoists don't say Kashmir. Muslims in the rest of the India seems not to care about it either. They are scared to eat beef let alone wage wars. So that should be fine. As far as Kashmiris go, as long as some of them hold Pakistan flags during protests it helps India's narrative that a kashmiri terrorist is actually trained and triggered by Pakistan. A few skirmishes here and there, a couple of blasts once in a while will keep the perception going that Kashmir actually needs 500k army. People are overestimating RSS 's plan here. It's not for a peaceful paradise. It's to slowly change the kashmir narrative brick by brick. India has time and resources.

FATf is a worry for Pak. I absolutely don't think they will be blacklisted but they will be kept on edge, an eternal probation if u will. Kulbhushan etc are spies and are considered different to jihadis. Every country has spies. Only few have jihadis. That's the difference.

 

[xbronze]

You forget 47 I think, anyway ask this from your grandfather or grandmother, they will tell you how these musallay broke our dharti maa in pieces.

Wow you have a sharp memory when it comes to 1947. Your memory fails you when it comes to more recent events...like 1971.

Do you remember your dharti maa being broken into two pieces in 1971? And 93000 Pak faujis surrendering?

 

[xbronze]

Most of your post entertains to cross border terrorism, 'Jihadis' sent from Pakistan, which I have already conceded, is counterproductive for us specially after 9/11. Additionally, it is highly impractical since India has fenced entirety of its physical border with Pakistan including LOC.

I believe that homegrown terror groups can be sprung up wherever there is adequate amount of hunger and poverty, only a small amount of ideological lineation is usually required. Dalits, ,maoists, Muslims ... can be invested in.

We will not have to worry about FATF if we remain professionals, after all what has India lost even after capture of Kulbhushans. Genuine spies and agents carrying out subversive activities on foreign soil instead of Hafiz Saeed etc is considered fair game in today's world.

This is the only option for us in the longer run and this is the way wars are fought in this day and age.

Firstly...a sensible post. Rare to see a Pakistani who realizes that so called non state actors/jihadis are a liability to the sending nation. Bad optics. 'Guilt by association' due to which other Arab/Muslim nations like Saudi, UAE, Oman, etc etc. want to stay clear of Pakistan, and would rather embrace India. And worst of all, if India decides enough is enough and starts going to extreme options like 'revoke 370 and integrate Kashmir' or consider 'cancel Indus Water Treaty' in response to next 'non state' nonsense, it is long term irreversible damage to Pakistan.

You are a regular poster like us here on this forum. But your post contains a lot of sense. About what are available options to Pakistan etc.

 

[rhony]

Lol my dear lol, you people are doing this since last 70 years & what is in your hands, blood of kashmiri children. Thats why I am saying that blood of hindustani kids will work. An expensive blood.

If a rag tag beggars can kill people imagine what the army can do. So don't wish death on those kashmiri kids. Let them live with peace. They would if they are smart but again....

 

[xbronze]

Pakistan's strategy pre-Musharraf was cross border terrorism which apart from Kashmir was mostly counter productive in rest of India. Unlike India, we have never really tried creating and supporting homegrown Indian terrorist groups apart from Khalistan movement(which failed partly because of Zia's death). That is the way to go for future in my opinion, arming and training intrinsic Indian terror groups on a large scale and lets see how prepared Indian armed forces are to deal with multiple insurgencies simultaneously.
Although this is too much to ask from Pakistan atm because of our economic and intellectual destitution.

India dealt with 5 big internal insurgencies simultaneously in the 80s - 90s. Additionally there were two potent insurgency movements that originated from foreign territories, at that time. For at least 15 years these 7 major insurgencies were red hot. Surprisingly India's economic condition was much worse then.

Yet the way the Indian security agencies improvised and tackled all of them is outstanding! There were quick lessons learnt and incorporated into the Military's counter insurgency operations doctrine. Based on the lessons learnt, tactics were integrated into military training. New counter insurgency and jungle warfare and urban warfare schools were opened by the Indian Army to institutionalize all aspects of these operations.

Today these schools of the Army have become mandatory part of the training not just for Commandos of the three services but also to many soldiers and officers of the Indian military. The United States Military has officers and men training in these counter insurgency and urban/jungle warfare schools on a continual basis. Many other friendly nations military too.

Given the fact that India's economy is expected to grown exponentially (current global economic slowdown notwithstanding), I don't see Pakistan's jihadi blueprint making much of a dent on India. Also given the huge difference in effectiveness between Pakistans and Indias foreign services, India will exploit Pakistan's support for non state actors further to Pakistan detriment.

I cannot think of another country that has successfully tamed so many insurgencies together in the last 30 years, as India has.

 

[troodon]

There is nothing called Muslim Bhaichara. It only exists in the minds of Pakistanis.

I have not read about any protests in Middle East or North Africa for Kashmiris.

 

[mustang]

Foolish to think anything will happen at the global level regarding Kashmir - the liberal media & some people will token protest obviously as they ought to, but no government will stick their neck out to punish India unless there was any documented large scale genocide which could lead to a nuclear war. If nobody could force Myanmar to stop atrocities against the Rohingyas, a tiny country most cant point out on a world map - let alone India. The Ummah is just a figment of imagination - it has not worked for the Palestine, Kashmir, Rohingyas or the Xinjiang Muslim.

Great comment reflecting geopolitical reality.

 

[xbronze]

I think you showed you don't have a bias and you answered for yourself who the war would be much worse for brother. First when you stated Indian nation does not have the same passion for Kashmir regarding protests I would tend to agree. and then you stated Indian economy is better hence they have much more to lose. This points to all out war being terrible for both parties but relatively much worse for india.

Citing resources availability as you did is a moot point because this would not be a conventional war given the nuclear component nor a conventional war terrain.

But it does feel good to fit in a barb at the neighbours now and then and what better one then "one 3rd world country with tons of people below the poverty line is 'richer' than another third world country with tons of people below the poverty line! " What a riot

That being said time will tell if the future generations can correct this.

Nice comment. I read it more than once.

 

[xbronze]

There is nothing called Muslim Bhaichara. It only exists in the minds of Pakistanis.

I have not read about any protests in Middle East or North Africa for Kashmiris.

Me neither. The only one I read about was by Pakistani expat workers in Bahrain who took our a large protest rally through the streets after the Friday prayers. The Bahraini police immediately arrested and jailed them. Further the prosecutor's office has begun cases against all protestors for public rioting.

The problem for the protesters is that after the Arab Spring protests, Bahrain has tightened laws on any public protests and are now very intolerant of such activities. The police has made it clear that all miscreants will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They also released a statement telling all residents to not exploit religious issues to whip up protests in Bahrain.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan's present plight is strictly down to its lack of economic clout which is due to the brutal 20 years of economic rape by the PPP and PML N whereas India made the most optimal use of these twenty years to become economically relevant to the West and the Arab world.

Money talks and the world will side with the party with deep pockets, where the economic interests and potential for returns are higher vs a bankrupt impoverished nation

 

[ReverseHit]

There is nothing called Muslim Bhaichara. It only exists in the minds of Pakistanis.

I have not read about any protests in Middle East or North Africa for Kashmiris.

Pakistanis tend to display some inter-generational 'zeal of the new convert' to try to fit in, while rumor has it, Bahrain arrested a bunch of Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for mixing politics and religion and protesting outside a mosque after Eid.

 

[Greenstorm]

India dealt with 5 big internal insurgencies simultaneously in the 80s - 90s. Additionally there were two potent insurgency movements that originated from foreign territories, at that time. For at least 15 years these 7 major insurgencies were red hot. Surprisingly India's economic condition was much worse then.

Yet the way the Indian security agencies improvised and tackled all of them is outstanding! There were quick lessons learnt and incorporated into the Military's counter insurgency operations doctrine. Based on the lessons learnt, tactics were integrated into military training. New counter insurgency and jungle warfare and urban warfare schools were opened by the Indian Army to institutionalize all aspects of these operations.

Today these schools of the Army have become mandatory part of the training not just for Commandos of the three services but also to many soldiers and officers of the Indian military. The United States Military has officers and men training in these counter insurgency and urban/jungle warfare schools on a continual basis. Many other friendly nations military too.

Given the fact that India's economy is expected to grown exponentially (current global economic slowdown notwithstanding), I don't see Pakistan's jihadi blueprint making much of a dent on India. Also given the huge difference in effectiveness between Pakistans and Indias foreign services, India will exploit Pakistan's support for non state actors further to Pakistan detriment.

I cannot think of another country that has successfully tamed so many insurgencies together in the last 30 years, as India has.

Interesting to know that Indian army is well trained to deal with multiple insurgencies but that should not deter us. We should keep trying simply because it is better to keep the enemy engaged internally instead of giving them time to formulate plans on recapturing azad Kashmir and invoke terror in Balochistan, Karachi, FATA.

My point remains that Pakistan has so far supported only one intrinsic insurgent group in India (Khalistan) which was largely effective until the demise of Zia ul Haq. Considering Indian involvement in Pakistan during last 60+ years (Afghan insurgency in 60s-70s, BLA, Al-Zulfiqar, MQM, TTP, PTM), Pakistan's response in terms of proxies has been meager and we need to up our game.

In other words, Ajit Doval's offensive defence is the strategy we should adopt.

 

[MRSN]

Foolish to think anything will happen at the global level regarding Kashmir - the liberal media & some people will token protest obviously as they ought to, but no government will stick their neck out to punish India unless there was any documented large scale genocide which could lead to a nuclear war. If nobody could force Myanmar to stop atrocities against the Rohingyas, a tiny country most cant point out on a world map - let alone India. The Ummah is just a figment of imagination - it has not worked for the Palestine, Kashmir, Rohingyas or the Xinjiang Muslim.

What would be Pakistan's option then? World not interfering and Modi not backing down from his radical politics? The only option left is to make a move on military level. I don't think this issue will get settled any other way.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OIC General Secretariat has learnt with concern the reports of curtailment of religious freedoms of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmiri?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmiri</a> Muslims in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Indian?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Indian</a> Occupied Jammu and <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a>, including complete lockdown even on the auspicious occasion of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Eid?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Eid</a>, denying <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EidAlAdha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EidAlAdha</a> congregation. <a href="https://t.co/dz4FQiWVhn">pic.twitter.com/dz4FQiWVhn</a></p>— OIC (@OIC_OCI) <a href="https://twitter.com/OIC_OCI/status/1161617458786177024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[gani999]

Thank you brother. We all should work for insaniyat more than anything!

I wish the Pakistan-backed Kashmiri groups had shown the same insaniyat to 300,000 Hindus who were chased away from their homes in Kashmir, while the 'secular' likes of yourself looked the other way.

 

[Pete Rose]

I wish the Pakistan-backed Kashmiri groups had shown the same insaniyat to 300,000 Hindus who were chased away from their homes in Kashmir, while the 'secular' likes of yourself looked the other way.

Well dont worry, you can kick out 300,000 kashmiris and have your revenge.

 

[Pete Rose]

If there's anyone who is surprised that Pakistan wont be getting an easy ride or blind support for this cause, then I have a couple of bridges to sell you.
There's a generation of old and young Pakistanis who look at issues like these through the prism of their impotence which they like to protest on the country.
For the record, this is how Pakistan should address the issue: raise its profile and try to rally global support. That it will fail or not have success is not the issue. When you see an atrocity that impacts your conscious or your geopolitical interests, you should agitate against it. You should not repeat the mistakes of the past, with exporting miscreants to do your heavy lifting.
Pakistan should continue to raise the alarm, and then when the worst fears are realized (the sanghi cannot help him/herself) we will be in a position to do more. Internationalizing the issue is also important so that when the inevitable false flag operations happen, we are able to defend our interests internationally.

But in the short term you have to accept setbacks. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.