Pakistan has fallen far behind India as a cricketing nation

[Rayyman]

India are up 3-0 in South Africa, while Pakistan have recently lost 5-0 in New Zealand.

India is one of the best Test teams of all time at the moment, while Pakistan have recently lost 2-0 to Sri Lanka who got thrashed 3-0 by India.

In T20is, India are much better as while, they have a much better domestic league (IPL >PSL). They have the best six-hitter in the world and best fielder in Hardik Pandya. A man with 2 T20I hundreds in Rohit. The GOAT LOI batsman in Kohli. The best spinners in Chahal and Kuldeep and the best death bowlers in Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar.

The talent disparity is clear as Pakistan youngsters marked with potential, go on to be certified TTFs (Shehzad, Imad, etc.). While the India youngsters are much more talented, shown in the IPL with guys like Rishabh Pant scoring 90 off 50 balls. No Pakistani player could ever dream of that. And the recent U-19 WC is just a sign of things to come.

The biggest difference by in large is Kohli. He is far greater than any batsman Pakistan will ever produce.

The domestic structure is overall better in India, with better quality of cricket, management and coaching. Pakistan's tournaments are full of poor pitches, has-been players, nepotism, and a superfluous desire for "senior" players.

The CT Final was a fluke and it was obvious that this will show in the next year or so and it has already started to fall apart for Pakistan who were once head and shoulders ahead of India, but now will never be on top again.

 

[moghul]

Sad but true.

 

[AMSS]

Remember the CT final? That's right. Also, Pakistan me talent bohot hay

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pakistan also won the ODI series when they toured South Africa last time.

 

[imranraf]

Unfortunately, that's correct. India right now is one of the best teams and Pakistan is still one of the bottom teams. Cricket in India has gotten a huge boost due to BCCI and IPL. Whereas Pakistan has suffered from mismanagement, not having the opportunity to play in home fields.

 

[Hasan123]

They are miles ahead of us in terms of financial resources, domestic structure, grassroots levels, and attitude towards fitness. These factors have played a part in India being well ahead of us on the pitch in the last decade. But I think if we actually select our team on merit and also sort our domestic pitches out we can start to compete with India more regularly.

 

[Rayyman]

Pakistan also won the ODI series when they toured South Africa last time.

Won by three bowlers with questionable actions in Ajmal, Junaid and Hafeez. Two of which got banned shortly after.

And three players who were seen to be future greats (Shehzad, Bhatti and Anwar). But a few months later, their performances tapered off at exponential rates.

And players like Misbah who was the last of a dying breed of great batsman that will never be produced again by Pakistan.

 

[akki]

I still believe indian batting is much stronger than what it has been playing right now . We have alot of talent in batting. Our bowling has improved a lot ,i must say. In this tour we have taken around 90 wickets. We have taken all wickets every match.
Pakistan need a saeed ajmal sort of mystery spinner. Plus one or two batting stars.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Pakistan always had good players but they don't use them well enough... Especially in the batting department they don't know which position and when they can use the players potential... Hence they will not be able to produce a Kohli, Rohit or Dhawan.. Seniority culture and nepotism is also a main cause for this which will kill the future batsmen....I see no reason to play Azhar, Hafeez and Malik when they have promising youngsters waiting for their chances.. India evolved along with the advent of IPL, Pak stays back and still not in full throttle to evolve with the PSL...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Won by three bowlers with questionable actions in Ajmal, Junaid and Hafeez. Two of which got banned shortly after.

And three players who were seen to be future greats (Shehzad, Bhatti and Anwar). But a few months later, their performances tapered off at exponential rates.

And players like Misbah who was the last of a dying breed of great batsman that will never be produced again by Pakistan.

The bowlers were legal at the time, poor excuse. It was a great peformance by Pakistan.

India will take over Pakistan when it has a better head to head, what both nations do against others has little meaning in this rivalry.

 

[hk031992]

Won by three bowlers with questionable actions in Ajmal, Junaid and Hafeez. Two of which got banned shortly after.

And three players who were seen to be future greats (Shehzad, Bhatti and Anwar). But a few months later, their performances tapered off at exponential rates.

And players like Misbah who was the last of a dying breed of great batsman that will never be produced again by Pakistan.

you have no idea what you are talking about. It is very much possible and even likely that some of the relatively new batsmen like Harris and Babar will surpass Misbah

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Won by three bowlers with questionable actions in Ajmal, Junaid and Hafeez. Two of which got banned shortly after.

And three players who were seen to be future greats (Shehzad, Bhatti and Anwar). But a few months later, their performances tapered off at exponential rates.

And players like Misbah who was the last of a dying breed of great batsman that will never be produced again by Pakistan.

Misbah was a very poor ODI batsman to the era when he played.. he played the 90s style of cricket when his opponents played the modern way....

 

[TikkiTaka]

False. Pakistan are far the better team and have always been and will be in the future too. We are 180 runs better than them to be exact. Performance in big finals matters against the top 8 teams, not some 4th rate SA team who aren't even taking the series seriously.

Both our economy (thanks to CPEC) and cricket (thanks to CT/PSL) are rebounding. Inshallah we will soon be number 1 in all formats.

 

[Dingolfy]

India has a way more population, better economy, better infrastructure and better domestic structure.So it is not surprising.But none of that will matter when we play each other in knockout matches.

 

[Lefthanded]

If I were a jingoistic India fan, I'd laugh at the comparison.

As a Pakistani I'm still trying not to laugh at comparing one team that's among the best across all formats, while the other's best hope is that duas and daaris will lift it above Bangladesh.

One team is rubbish and the other isn't. Winning three matches in a row for the CT is not a realistic representation at all. Just look at how they've played in the format and are still playing.

 

[TikkiTaka]

I used to lurk in these forums but I am sick of the Indian love in from Pakistani fans, which is why I signed up. They are an inferior team historically and have tried everything to ensure that Pakistani cricket does not do well; we should remember that at all times..

 

[AMSS]

False. Pakistan are far the better team and have always been and will be in the future too. We are 180 runs better than them to be exact. Performance in big finals matters against the top 8 teams, not some 4th rate SA team who aren't even taking the series seriously.

Both our economy (thanks to CPEC) and cricket (thanks to CT/PSL) are rebounding. Inshallah we will soon be number 1 in all formats.

Finally the post I was waiting for. Thank you for restoring my faith. This thread may be locked now.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India has 5 decent spinners Several seamers Good back ups in different age group. only issue is seniors who refuse to go away.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Misbah a great batsman last of the dying breed?if that is so then I hope that kind of breed of batsmen dies for good.

 

[Kroll]

Still, we can always rely on the unpredictability factor of Pakistan cricket to give us hope.

 

[jnaveen1980]

False. Pakistan are far the better team and have always been and will be in the future too. We are 180 runs better than them to be exact. Performance in big finals matters against the top 8 teams, not some 4th rate SA team who aren't even taking the series seriously.

Both our economy (thanks to CPEC) and cricket (thanks to CT/PSL) are rebounding. Inshallah we will soon be number 1 in all formats.

Didtn you guys lose to India by 158 runsin the same ct. chahal/kuldeep vs them wou,d be intereting

 

[KingKhanWC]

I used to lurk in these forums but I am sick of the Indian love in from Pakistani fans, which is why I signed up. They are an inferior team historically and have tried everything to ensure that Pakistani cricket does not do well; we should remember that at all times..

The last time we played them in a final, they were not just beaten but humilated in the biggest margin of loss in a final! (if im wrong please someone let me know).

The last time we played them in a bilateral ODI series we again humiliated them in their own back yard.

In 2004 India beat Pak in Pak in the test series, in 2005 we went to their home and came back from 1-0 down to draw the series. In 2006 their so called greats were on their knees in Karachi

 

[TikkiTaka]

Didtn you guys lose to India by 158 runsin the same ct. chahal/kuldeep vs them wou,d be intereting

It was by 128 runs cause it was D/L. Alteast get your figures right. Plus 180 + Father'd Day + Final >>>> 128 runs in the first match.

 

[Kashmirilion]

The last time we played them in a final, they were not just beaten but humilated in the biggest margin of loss in a final! (if im wrong please someone let me know).

The last time we played them in a bilateral ODI series we again humiliated them in their own back yard.

In 2004 India beat Pak in Pak in the test series, in 2005 we went to their home and came back from 1-0 down to draw the series. In 2006 their so called greats were on their knees in Karachi

That's a long long time ago bro, we Pakistanis do have a obsession with nostalgia.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That's a long long time ago bro, we Pakistanis do have a obsession with nostalgia.

Bro we can only base it on when we last played each other reguarly. No team can say they are better now when they are too chicken to play you

 

[akki]

The last time we played them in a final, they were not just beaten but humilated in the biggest margin of loss in a final! (if im wrong please someone let me know).

The last time we played them in a bilateral ODI series we again humiliated them in their own back yard.

In 2004 India beat Pak in Pak in the test series, in 2005 we went to their home and came back from 1-0 down to draw the series. In 2006 their so called greats were on their knees in Karachi

India- N.o 1 test side
India - N.o 1 odi side
India - world cup wins ..even forget the count
..but clean sweep.
Just Wait and watch .....

 

[TikkiTaka]

The last time we played them in a final, they were not just beaten but humilated in the biggest margin of loss in a final! (if im wrong please someone let me know).

The last time we played them in a bilateral ODI series we again humiliated them in their own back yard.

In 2004 India beat Pak in Pak in the test series, in 2005 we went to their home and came back from 1-0 down to draw the series. In 2006 their so called greats were on their knees in Karachi

Thank you bhai! I completely agree. Indians turn up here and start posting crap about how their team is the greatest. Guess what, Pakistanis don't care! Despite India-imposed challenges to our cricket and economy we are coming back in both areas.

FYI we won our first test in India in our very first series. It took the Indian till 2004 to do that, against the weakest Pakistani bowling attack of all time. And they call themselves a cricketing superpower! Hahahaha!

 

[KingKhanWC]

India- N.o 1 test side
India - N.o 1 odi side
India - world cup wins ..even forget the count
..but clean sweep.
Just Wait and watch .....

Rankings count for nothing when you are too scared to play us.

Great you have one more world cup win but we have a much superious head to head record and this will never change imo.

 

[TikkiTaka]

That's a long long time ago bro, we Pakistanis do have a obsession with nostalgia.

I guess historical records now constitutes Nostalgia? If you look at cricketing history we have been the 2nd best side of all time after Australia in terms of overall achievements. West Indies are close but their decline has been precipitous. That's something to be proud off.

 

[dhonixi]

I can't help but sometimes feel that due to pakistan team ranks below top team, their fans thinking is also like a minnow team. They hung up on 1 win, they still hung up on that 2012 tour win. Lol. After that tour india pakistan meet many times and india beat pakistan in many matches. But pakistani brags only one asia cup match, one ct win, 2012 tourBut no indian brag one match many times, pakistani still brag about Afridi 2 sixes, junaids wickets against kohli. This is embarrassing. This is like bd brags about whitewashing you in 2015 still, and forget all previous beatings of yours to them( sorry for my bad English)

 

[KingKhanWC]

Thank you bhai! I completely agree. Indians turn up here and start posting crap about how their team is the greatest. Guess what, Pakistanis don't care! Despite India-imposed challenges to our cricket and economy we are coming back in both areas.

FYI we won our first test in India in our very first series. It took the Indian till 2004 to do that, against the weakest Pakistani bowling attack of all time. And they call themselves a cricketing superpower! Hahahaha!

You are right and I would guess Afghanistan and Bangladesh have risen quicker than the Indians did.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

I have grown up watching cricket in the 90's.. The Pakistani cricketers of the 90s were absolute legends.

CT was a Flash in the Pan if not a Fluke

 

[pks85333]

Thank you bhai! I completely agree. Indians turn up here and start posting crap about how their team is the greatest. Guess what, Pakistanis don't care! Despite India-imposed challenges to our cricket and economy we are coming back in both areas.

FYI we won our first test in India in our very first series. It took the Indian till 2004 to do that, against the weakest Pakistani bowling attack of all time. And they call themselves a cricketing superpower! Hahahaha!

India may win next 30 consecutive match against all opposition but since Pak beat Ind in CT final... PAK>>>IND forever

 

[TikkiTaka]

I have grown up watching cricket in the 90's.. The Pakistani cricketers of the 90s were absolute legends.

CT was a Flash in the Pan if not a Fluke

Yeah that's what I would tell myself too if I got humiliated on the biggest match of my life. It's a flash in the pan that we should all forget and go back to beating Sri Lanka at home in ODI's.

 

[Rayyman]

you have no idea what you are talking about. It is very much possible and even likely that some of the relatively new batsmen like Harris and Babar will surpass Misbah

Misbah was a very poor ODI batsman to the era when he played.. he played the 90s style of cricket when his opponents played the modern way....

But Misbah won us that series with his batting.

Babar and Haris have never played a match-winning innings against an above average team away from home due to the former's lack of heart and the latter's lack of fitness. Two qualities which Misbah had in abundance.

 

[sjahmed23]

Success of IPL and professionalism of Indian cricketers has a lot to do with it. The standards set by the likes of Sachin, Dravid, Dhoni have uplifted Indian cricket tremendously. While in Pakistan we crap on guys like Misbah for playing too slow or not being "aggressive" whatever that means.

 

[Rayyman]

The bowlers were legal at the time, poor excuse. It was a great peformance by Pakistan.

India will take over Pakistan when it has a better head to head, what both nations do against others has little meaning in this rivalry.

As I said in the OP, Pakistan has been better in the past, but at the moment it looks as if India is far far ahead and it will remain so in the future. As shown by the head to head meetings in the last 5 years or so and the current series' going on.

 

[Tridibans_16]

Yeah that's what I would tell myself too if I got humiliated on the biggest match of my life. It's a flash in the pan that we should all forget and go back to beating Sri Lanka at home in ODI's.

I agree with you. CT final was the biggest match of all time. And we lost !!!

Who cares about 10 world cup matches (including T20WC Final or SF 2011) when the MATCH OF THE UNIVERSE CT FINAL was won by Pakistan.

 

[Rayyman]

I agree with you. CT final was the biggest match of all time. And we lost !!!

Who cares about 10 world cup matches (including T20WC Final or SF 2011) when the MATCH OF THE UNIVERSE CT FINAL was won by Pakistan.

Go easy on the die-hard Pakistan fans. The only achievement of note for them in the recent past is the team winning the CT Final so they tend to over-hype it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As I said in the OP, Pakistan has been better in the past, but at the moment it looks as if India is far far ahead and it will remain so in the future. As shown by the head to head meetings in the last 5 years or so and the current series' going on.

Are they playing us? No they are playing another team which we also beat in their patch. If you want to compare both teams, forget the rankings as they are not valid due to Indian not playing all nations and forget how teams do against others. You can only base this on meetings between the the teams, which all show Pakistan to be ahead in bilateral and tournaments due to the massive CT victory in the final.

You should support India.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

That's why India pak matches also lost their sheen.. Indian public used to love matches against Pakistan when they were good with likes of wasim waqar shoaib akhtar Anwar etc..but now there is no interest at all...

 

[troodon]

Indian Test team is class. One of the best for all conditions.

Indian ODI team has middle and lower middle order problems. We are not the best ODI team. We are probably 3rd or 4th best. We just play well in ICC tournaments. That's all.

I don't have much opinion on our T20 team. We don't play many T20's anyway. Its all IPL.

 

[TikkiTaka]

I agree with you. CT final was the biggest match of all time. And we lost !!!

Who cares about 10 world cup matches (including T20WC Final or SF 2011) when the MATCH OF THE UNIVERSE CT FINAL was won by Pakistan.

Well it's not just that we won. We won when India was refusing to play against us despite signing a MoU, and trying to isolate and malign our name around the world. It mattered more than just a victory. It was a statement.

Just like Javed Miandad's final ball six was a statement. Playing after years, when we lost a part of our country and had to rebuild our economy, it was a statement that despite everything India will try, we will remain the superior side.

 

[Rayyman]

If a bilateral series is to be played today. India will decimate Pakistan into the ground. In all formats.

 

[pks85333]

Go easy on the die-hard Pakistan fans. The only achievement of note for them in the recent past is the team winning the CT Final so they tend to over-hype it.

Pak won CT so they are the best ODI team until they again win a world trophy.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

The Domestic structure in India is very strong. Even if you are an IPL legend.. You have to make the cut in Domestic scene to be considered for the national side..

No exceptions and absolutely no chances of Sifarish

 

[MMHS]

I think, more than playing skills (that's indeed a big gap there), biggest gap is the approach to the game. ODI & Test are much more tactical, hence team is getting exposed big time, but they are doing well in T20, which is least tactical.

I can write lot & posters will agree as well, but just giving one example -

In 1st or 2nd ODI (2nd I believe), Southee bowled couple of absolute rubbish - max. 134km, short, at least a foot out side off, slanting away and he was bowling with just 2 fielders in front of point in a 60 metre ground. Forget about Warner, Roy, Finch, Guptil, Dhawan, Kok, Tamim or Rohit .... even if our Liton is sent as opener, he would have thrown kitchen sink at those - and, unless he is extremely unlucky, he would have cleared those 2 fielders as well, or at least slashed hard enough for top edge to fly over slips. ....... Azhar Ali shoulder armed both times for a maiden and almost whole of PAK (including Captain dynamic) is convinced that this hiding in NZ was because of early wicket loss, when batsmen were trying to score at 2.3-2.5 rate in PP!!!!!!!!!

The game has changed lot, but the fundamentals haven't changed much - you have to attack in PP, but that can't be in exchange of wickets. So, what most teams are doing is sending their boundary hitters in top - you have to defend good balls (with modern technique, if batsmen try to do hunky dori, it might end up like what happened in recent Adelaide ODI), but every bad ball has to go for a boundary with smaller grounds, compressed bats & machine stitched balls. I was fortunate to watch this morning first few overs of IND's batting - they lost 1st wicket at 3rd/4th ball, could have lost 2 for 4 - still scored 50 in 1st 10 overs with 9 or 10 boundaries - every lose ball went to fence ...... and then Ul Haq sent Azhar/Imam as openers ........

I can't prove, but had Amir bowled to his top 4, I can say that guy would have taken 2 wickets every time in 1st spell. He is bowling exceptionally tight - then one lose one and it's going for boundary, twice from other end ...... against his own team, his loose ones will be shoulder armed, tight one will suffocate for couple of wickets.

People can question my qualification and I haven't played above club level, that too in Banglaaaaaaaaaaaadesh Clubs, so...... but, I don't believe, on field the gap is that wide like off field gap to state that problem lies in early wicket, to reach 16/6 in 15 overs.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pak won CT so they are the best ODI team until they again win a world trophy.

The world cup winners dont count but CT winners are the best tea

Lol

 

[TikkiTaka]

Are they playing us? No they are playing another team which we also beat in their patch. If you want to compare both teams, forget the rankings as they are not valid due to Indian not playing all nations and forget how teams do against others. You can only base this on meetings between the the teams, which all show Pakistan to be ahead in bilateral and tournaments due to the massive CT victory in the final.

You should support India.

Couldn't agree more. It is these so-called Pakistani supporters that are even worse than Indian supporters sometimes. I have so many Pakistani friends that still have such a soft-spot for India as if it's some long lost brother despite the fact that they have only given us problems from the start. If they were actually truthful they would come and play with us as per the MoU instead of running away.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India has to get rid of some players to become even stronger. Pakistan has to get rid of lot more players than India. THey are carrying way too many passengers. Even in Indian system this is creeping in . Recycling old players despite having such a strong bench strength. Malik, Hafeez these guys look like will be playing forever for Pakistan. They should give chance to youngsters even at the risk of losing a few matches. Because Pakistan will feel a giant vacuum all of a sudden if couple of players retired.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

That's why India pak matches also lost their sheen.. Indian public used to love matches against Pakistan when they were good with likes of wasim waqar shoaib akhtar Anwar etc..but now there is no interest at all...

Very true.. Earlier streets and markets used to be deserted.. Nowadays many don't seem to bother. You can see shopping malls filled during indo-pak matches

If a random survey was done to name 3 current Pakistani players
, am sure many Indians would fail to do so.

 

[srh]

India are up 3-0 in South Africa, while Pakistan have recently lost 5-0 in New Zealand.

India is one of the best Test teams of all time at the moment, while Pakistan have recently lost 2-0 to Sri Lanka who got thrashed 3-0 by India.

In T20is, India are much better as while, they have a much better domestic league (IPL >PSL). They have the best six-hitter in the world and best fielder in Hardik Pandya. A man with 2 T20I hundreds in Rohit. The GOAT LOI batsman in Kohli. The best spinners in Chahal and Kuldeep and the best death bowlers in Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar.

The talent disparity is clear as Pakistan youngsters marked with potential, go on to be certified TTFs (Shehzad, Imad, etc.). While the India youngsters are much more talented, shown in the IPL with guys like Rishabh Pant scoring 90 off 50 balls. No Pakistani player could ever dream of that. And the recent U-19 WC is just a sign of things to come.

The biggest difference by in large is Kohli. He is far greater than any batsman Pakistan will ever produce.

The domestic structure is overall better in India, with better quality of cricket, management and coaching. Pakistan's tournaments are full of poor pitches, has-been players, nepotism, and a superfluous desire for "senior" players.

The CT Final was a fluke and it was obvious that this will show in the next year or so and it has already started to fall apart for Pakistan who were once head and shoulders ahead of India, but now will never be on top again.

totally disagree. The real things are conditions awareness, correct selection and momentum.

Pakistan first played 5 ODIs and then 3 T20Is against NZ in NZ tour.

When the ODI series started, Pakistan was not aware of the conditions, they dont have any momentum after begin off of cricket for so long, and also selection was not right. As a result Pakistan lost all 5 ODIs.

By the end of ODI series, Pakistan was aware of the conditions. Then in the T20I series team selection was much better. And in the last 2 T20Is they outclassed NZ and won the series.

By the end of T20I series Pakistan are aware of the conditions, team selection is much better and also have momentum.

Now suppose if Pakistan had played another 5 ODI series after the T20I series with the same team players who play in T20I series, then what would have happen? Pakistan would have beaten the NZ 5-0. Because they were finally clicking on all 3 cylinders: conditions awareness, correct selection and momentum. And Pakistan becomes unbeatable when they check all these requirements.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I agree with you. CT final was the biggest match of all time. And we lost !!!

Who cares about 10 world cup matches (including T20WC Final or SF 2011) when the MATCH OF THE UNIVERSE CT FINAL was won by Pakistan.

The manner of defeat defies a team that claims to be undisputed number one. India is much ahead of Pakistan as an all-round team at this stage obviously, but to put down Pakistan unnecessarily is unfair. This is a young team with a lot of potential, as shown by the CT win and the 5-0 thrashing of Sri Lanka recently. Yes they failed in New Zealand, but you expected that to happen based on the fact that most of these guys hadn't played on such pitches before. As soon as they adjusted, they smashed New Zealand to be the first Asian team to win a T20 series in New Zealand.

India has three sensational top-order batsmen, that are probably the best in the world and thats where they nail LOI matches consistently. In Kohli they have an absolute brute of a player, who might become the GOAT in ODI cricket.

Unfair to compare both these teams to be honest.

 

[Lefthanded]

I used to lurk in these forums but I am sick of the Indian love in from Pakistani fans, which is why I signed up. They are an inferior team historically and have tried everything to ensure that Pakistani cricket does not do well; we should remember that at all times..

Nothing you say, or pray, is going to change the fact Pakistan is #6, and India #1.

Nor is it going to change that winning 3 games on the trot in a baby WC counts is not a realistic representation of the team.

Nor is any sensible neutral going to agree with you.

 

[big_gamer007]

Lol this thread serves both purpose, to hurt die hard Pakistani fans and for burned up Pakistani fans to belittle India.. Well played [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION]

On topic I guess professional culture is thre way forward in cricket Pakistan may win a tournament here and there however India will be competing good in most matches.. That’s the difference, hopefully it will only get better for indian team.. Being better than Pakistan is not something we should aim for or be content at we need to aim for the zenith so hopefully future generations will produce even a better all round team.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

The manner of defeat defies a team that claims to be undisputed number one. India is much ahead of Pakistan as an all-round team at this stage obviously, but to put down Pakistan unnecessarily is unfair. This is a young team with a lot of potential, as shown by the CT win and the 5-0 thrashing of Sri Lanka recently. Yes they failed in New Zealand, but you expected that to happen based on the fact that most of these guys hadn't played on such pitches before. As soon as they adjusted, they smashed New Zealand to be the first Asian team to win a T20 series in New Zealand.

India has three sensational top-order batsmen, that are probably the best in the world and thats where they nail LOI matches consistently. In Kohli they have an absolute brute of a player, who might become the GOAT in ODI cricket.

Unfair to compare both these teams to be honest.

O mere bhole bhai.. If one Wins Every Single Time, Wouldn't that make it ultra boring.

Its a very good thing Pakistan won in CT finals. Would really spice up the next encounter WC in England.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Nothing you say, or pray, is going to change the fact Pakistan is #6, and India #1.

Nor is it going to change that winning 3 games on the trot in a baby WC counts is not a realistic representation of the team.

Nor is any sensible neutral going to agree with you.

Rankings aren't the be-all and end all of sport. Belgium were ranked the #1 football team for a while. Doesn't mean squat.

The CT was a culmination of the best 8 teams in the World. More than the WC where you can bash minnows to qualify for the knockouts. It's not just an abberation or flash in the pan or fluke like Indian fans like to claim.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Swings and Roundabouts.

 

[Fahdi]

Is this news? This has been the case for a while now. We have had some some good high points over the last 5-6 years but India has been consistently better overall in this period.

 

[Sidilicious]

The bowlers were legal at the time, poor excuse. It was a great peformance by Pakistan.

India will take over Pakistan when it has a better head to head, what both nations do against others has little meaning in this rivalry.

If India were to win the next 2 WCs, they would still be behind Pakistan ODIs, courtesy the h2h record?

Quite illogical.

 

[TikkiTaka]

If India were to win the next 2 WCs, they would still be behind Pakistan ODIs, courtesy the h2h record?

Quite illogical.

It's called head-to-head for a reason. The better team wins more often. Too hard to understand?

 

[Sidilicious]

Welcome . I agree, there are far too many threads regarding Indian cricket esp Kohli, it's getting embarrasing. Imo the Mods need to merge all Indian cricket related threads into one.

The last time we played them in a final, they were not just beaten but humilated in the biggest margin of loss in a final! (if im wrong please someone let me know).

The last time we played them in a bilateral ODI series we again humiliated them in their own back yard.

In 2004 India beat Pak in Pak in the test series, in 2005 we went to their home and came back from 1-0 down to draw the series. In 2006 their so called greats were on their knees in Karachi

And what about the multiple wins for India in the middle.

India went to Pakistan in 03/04 won the tests and ODIs
India beat Pakistan away in ODIs in 06
India beat Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in 07
Shall we forget T20 2007 (twice), 2012, 2014 and 2016?
WC 2015, and the biggest game that India vs Pakistan has ever played - 2011 WC

Both teams have won against each other, but India have been by far the better side for the last 15 years. Pakistan, of course was the better side from mid 80s to 2003.

 

[Sidilicious]

It's called head-to-head for a reason. The better team wins more often. Too hard to understand?

And the team that has won more World Cups?

 

[Markhor]

What's this obsession to compare with India every week ? Why does one have to belittle their own team whilst giving credit to another ?

Pakistan are at a totally different stage of their development. India's side is settled whereas we're still transitioning away from senior players in all formats so its an unfair comparison. Let's gauge where we are in 2-3 years once these youngsters mature.

Well done to India on a terrific ODI performance but where the link with Pakistan is I do not know. Pakistan also beat a stronger South Africa team away in 2013 so we're even.

India has a far more professional administrative and domestic infrastructure. Say what you like about BCCI but they fight tooth and nail for their interests. The quality of their grassroots coaching and population size ensures a huge, ultra-competitive talent pool. Unlike Pakistan, they host home internationals, lucrative television deals and IPL riches far surpassing most international teams let alone Pakistan.

That's not making excuses, its context. Our TV deal is far less lucrative without India series, we have to bear the expense of staging home internationals and PSL in the UAE, and our domestic structure is a shambles. Its not a fair comparison.

 

[TeamPak95]

Not much of a king if you get blanked 5-0 afterwards (beating SL & World XI, no offence to them, doesn't exactly show where your team is in the LO game). Jokes aside, if Pakistan are gonna prove to the world that they are a force to be reckoned with in LOI, they have to be, at the very least, beating teams at a decent rate. 5-0 vs NZ certainly did not help, and even if they lost 3-2, depending on the match situations, I would have considered that a pretty successful series.

In regards to the India comparison, not to sound like I'm in full awe of them and have nothing but praise, but they do have all the basis covered and are winning consistently. I don't feel the CT win was a fluke, but I don't blame others for thinking otherwise. Pak won the CT, only to lose 5-0 against their next big opponent. If that's not inconsistent and unpredictable, then idk what is.

 

[TikkiTaka]

And the team that has won more World Cups?

How does that matter in overall Head-to-Heads? If you wanna talk about World Cups, let talk about knock outs games then not just group stages. I don't care about T20's anyways.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Not much of a king if you get blanked 5-0 afterwards (beating SL & World XI, no offence to them, doesn't exactly show where your team is in the LO game). Jokes aside, if Pakistan are gonna prove to the world that they are a force to be reckoned with in LOI, they have to be, at the very least, beating teams at a decent rate. 5-0 vs NZ certainly did not help, and even if they lost 3-2, depending on the match situations, I would have considered that a pretty successful series.

In regards to the India comparison, not to sound like I'm in full awe of them and have nothing but praise, but they do have all the basis covered and are winning consistently. I don't feel the CT win was a fluke, but I don't blame others for thinking otherwise. Pak won the CT, only to lose 5-0 against their next big opponent. If that's not inconsistent and unpredictable, then idk what is.

Well we can't just pick and choose what's convenient. Why do you want to throw out SL and World XI but only consider NZ tour? That's my point.

We've always been inconsistent. My point is we haven't fallen behind India as we beat them convincingly last time. Don't let the Indians convince you otherwise.

 

[Sidilicious]

Swings and Roundabouts.

Nope. I reckon its professionalism in the sport and domestic structure. PSL brings in enough money. The question is will it be invested back into the sport?

 

[R3verse Swing]

It should be duly noted the OP is misleading.

Comparing a non-concluded series score between a concluded score, that two between SA and NZ, is like comparing between apples and oranges.

FACT : Pakistan was the first Asian team to beat SA in SA in ODis, while India seem like the 2nd Asian team.

Moreover in T20is, Pakistan is #1 Rank in T20s, while India with all their IPL *experience*, and lack of Pakistani players, do not even make the finishing frame. In fact, India lost a World T20 final at home.

Meaning, it is India that is catching up on Pakistan’s performance, not the other way round.

Just for context!

 

[KingKhanWC]

And what about the multiple wins for India in the middle.

India went to Pakistan in 03/04 won the tests and ODIs
India beat Pakistan away in ODIs in 06
India beat Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in 07
Shall we forget T20 2007 (twice), 2012, 2014 and 2016?
WC 2015, and the biggest game that India vs Pakistan has ever played - 2011 WC

Both teams have won against each other, but India have been by far the better side for the last 15 years. Pakistan, of course was the better side from mid 80s to 2003.

If both teams beat each other in the 2000's, fine. You forget the previous bilateral tour, most recent Pak not only won in India but won with ease against the so called best batting line up who struggled to get over 150, in 2013. How then can you say you have been the better team in the last 15 years?

 

[Sidilicious]

How does that matter in overall Head-to-Heads? If you wanna talk about World Cups, let talk about knock outs games then not just group stages. I don't care about T20's anyways.

Bhai, leave it. You are too burned to understand the realities on the ground.

The thread was a bait thread to start with, but I expected some discussion around improving professionalism in Pakistan and its domestic structure.

 

[JaDed]

Basically this is what usually happens:

Pak poster open a thread praising Indian team and putting down Pak team.
Pak posters get riled up and talk I'll against India and over praise PCT.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Nope. I reckon its professionalism in the sport and domestic structure. PSL brings in enough money. The question is will it be invested back into the sport?

Well, let's face reality, money doesn't guarantee success. The CT17 comp proved all doubters wrong.

 

[Sidilicious]

If both teams beat each other in the 2000's, fine. You forget the previous bilateral tour, most recent Pak not only won in India but won with ease against the so called best batting line up who struggled to get over 150, in 2013. How then can you say you have been the better team in the last 15 years?

India has been the better team due tot he following
better H2H in the last 15 years in ODIs
better H2H in the last 15 years in Tests
better H2H in the last 15 years in T20Is
1 extra WC

 

[R3verse Swing]

And the team that has won more World Cups?

So you are willing to determine overall success based on World Cups?

2 points:

1 - India only has ONE more World Cup compared to Pakistan - despite the riches and success of Indian cricket, this is the lead. ONE trophy.

2 - If World Cup only matters to you then are you willing to discard Indian Test/ODI stats? Think hard.

 

[Sidilicious]

Well, let's face reality, money doesn't guarantee success. The CT17 comp proved all doubters wrong.

No, money doesnt guarantee success. But a god structure guarantees that you are not dependent on talents like Wasim and Waqar coming from nowhere, but are able to nurture cricketers.

One of the best things about the IPL how it has increased the salary of the non IPL playing domestic cricketers. Cricketers do not have to hold two jobs anymore, they can really live a better life.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Bhai, leave it. You are too burned to understand the realities on the ground.

The thread was a bait thread to start with, but I expected some discussion around improving professionalism in Pakistan and its domestic structure.

How am I burned out? I came in here only after Indian fans started taking a dump on Pakistan after winning some ODI games after losing a test series they claimed they would win. I even signed up today even thought I only read the boards usually.

Of course, Pak can improve domestic structures. But that is hard without any funding (India spitting on our face by not playing promised matches after we supported them in ICC), and home-matches (again India is trying to isolate my country). It's just rich to then see Indian fans come and say we aren't doing as well though their country has been working against our interests for years.

We still managed to keep afloat and even won the CT, despite all this.

 

[Sidilicious]

So you are willing to determine overall success based on World Cups?

2 points:

1 - India only has ONE more World Cup compared to Pakistan - despite the riches and success of Indian cricket, this is the lead. ONE trophy.

2 - If World Cup only matters to you then are you willing to discard Indian Test/ODI stats? Think hard.

In ODIs, WC is the most important. There are no extremes, and everything is taken into account. But WC performance does make up for some difference in H2H

 

[R3verse Swing]

No, money doesnt guarantee success. But a god structure guarantees that you are not dependent on talents like Wasim and Waqar coming from nowhere, but are able to nurture cricketers.

One of the best things about the IPL how it has increased the salary of the non IPL playing domestic cricketers. Cricketers do not have to hold two jobs anymore, they can really live a better life.

You missed a point. When players play for money, they are mercenaries.

Players who play for their country are legends. Pakistan CT17 win as an example.

 

[R3verse Swing]

In ODIs, WC is the most important. There are no extremes, and everything is taken into account. But WC performance does make up for some difference in H2H

Right, so what you are saying then is all ODI stats before 1975 are irrelevant.

Wow.