"Pakistan has suffered enough fighting US's war" : Imran Khan responds to Donald Trump [Post #43]

[Abdullah719]

"Pakistan has suffered enough fighting US's war" : Imran Khan responds to Donald Trump [Post #43]

United States (US) President Donald Trump on Sunday slammed Pakistan “for doing nothing” for his country, claiming that Pakistan helped shelter former al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad.

In an interview with Fox News, Trump defended his administration’s decision to pull hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Pakistan.

He said, “You know, living – think of this – living in Pakistan, beautifully in Pakistan in what I guess they considered a nice mansion, I don’t know, I’ve seen nicer,” referring to bin Laden and his former compound in Abbottabad.

In 2011, the compound was destroyed shortly after the US Naval Special Warfare Development Group forces, in a helicopter raid, killed bin Laden.

“But living in Pakistan right next to the military academy, everybody in Pakistan knew he was there,” he added. “And we give Pakistan $1.3 billion a year . … [bin Laden] lived in Pakistan, we’re supporting Pakistan, we’re giving them $1.3 billion a year –which we don’t give them any more, by the way, I ended it because they don’t do anything for us, they don’t do a damn thing for us.”

Trump also plans to visit the US troops stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan for the first time.

“Well, I think you will see that happen,” the president said after the interviewer reminded that Obama and former President George W Bush had each visited soldiers in war zones. He commented, “There are things that are being planned. We don’t want to talk about it because of — obviously because of security reasons and everything else.”

Meanwhile, Trump said that he was briefed on the audio recording of journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s apparent murder in Turkey, but said he hasn’t listened to it, calling it a “suffering tape” that he was advised not to hear.

“You saw we put on very heavy sanctions, massive sanctions on a large group of people from Saudi Arabia,” Trump said. “But at the same time we do have an ally and I want to stick with an ally that in many ways has been very good.” He also said it “takes two to tango” to resolve the conflict in Yemen, where Iranian-backed insurgents are facing off in a proxy war against Saudi-backed forces, noting that “I want Saudi to stop, but I want Iran to stop also.”

It is pertinent to mention that the US cancelled $300 million in aid to Pakistan this year for its ‘lack of’ decisive action against militant groups.

The cancellation of aid is part of President Trump’s New Year tweet in which he launched a scathing criticism against Pakistan for betraying the US.

“The United States has foolishly given Pakistan more than 33 billion dollars in aid over the last 15 years, and they have given us nothing but lies & deceit, thinking of our leaders as fools. They give safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan, with little help. No more!,” Trump tweeted on New Year’s Day.

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2018/11/18/they-dont-do-a-damn-thing-for-us-says-trump-on-pakistan/

 

[KingKhanWC]

The clown should be embarrased his so called great army can't defeat poor tribseman in 16 years. Does he want Pakistan to help out more?

 

[Mamoon]

Housing Osama and protecting him for years completely destroyed our credibility internationally, and it will take a lot of effort for the stain to wash away.

We clearly deserve all the negative press, and imagining that he wasn’t there and was simply “planted” by the CIA to frame Pakistan will not help anyone.

 

[Yossarian]

Housing Osama and protecting him for years completely destroyed our credibility internationally, and it will take a lot of effort for the stain to wash away.

We clearly deserve all the negative press, and imagining that he wasn’t there and was simply “planted” by the CIA to frame Pakistan will not help anyone.

So when are you going back to Pakistan to revel in all of this negative press? I must say I've not seen so much vitriol coming from Pakistan haters, from the likes of BNP (and National Front before that) to some Pakistan-hating Indians, as the amount of hate and vitriol that you appear to spout constantly about anything to do with Pakistan and Pakistanis. And yet you claim to be a Pakistani. In which case you must also really hate yourself.

 

[Kroll]

Conveniently forgets to mention all the backstabbing and abandoning the US did to Pakistan way before the so-called "War on Terror". If it wasn't for Pakistan, the communists would have been in power in Afghanistan. "I ended it because they don’t do anything for us, they don’t do a damn thing for us.” is a bit hollow considering what Pakistan has actually done and the sacrifices made.

 

[gazza619]

I dont think the world takes him serious anymore.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I dont think the world takes him serious anymore.

Are you talking about [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] or Trump? Though your statement is true for both

 

[gazza619]

Are you talking about [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] or Trump? Though your statement is true for both

Lool, we take [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] very seriously. Though he does kind of dissappear from cricket forums when Pakistan is doing well
Jokes aside all posters are valuable and I was referring to Trump.

 

[Sachin136]

I dont think the world takes him serious anymore.

Rest assured that the world takes the President of the US very seriously.

 

[Itachi]

One may not take trump seriously but no would dare to not to take seriously the words of a US president.

People are missing an important key here.

 

[BlackShadow]

He is right. Pakistan talk as if they want to act against terrorism, but the reality has always been quite the opposite.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak has to do what is right for itself!! If the enemies of Pak are not America's problems then their enemies are not Pak's problem either! Pak has no quarrel with the Afghan Taliban at all! It's great to see Trump howling helplessly whist being humiliated in Afghanistan America losing the war to a few tribesman is the biggest joke in history! All those modern weapons and having spent $trillions yet the Taliban rule almost all of Afghanistan)) ISI is crushing America next door!

 

[PakLFC]

The ISI knows exactly how to make a fool out of America!! America stuck in Afghanistan needs Pak so really can't do much!!: They'll be laughing their heads off in Islamabad)))))

 

[Slog]

One may not take trump seriously but no would dare to not to take seriously the words of a US president.

People are missing an important key here.

What can he really do though?

US does not have much leverage over Pakistan at this point. Since now the pittance of aid US used to give is gone as well there is literally nothing for the US to hold over Pakistan's head.

Pakistan is too strong to ever be in a situation such as Saddam's Iraq since it is a military power whether anyone likes it or not or be like Khomeini's Iran since it has too much backing of China and the Arab world to face the similar sanctions.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What can he really do though?

US does not have much leverage over Pakistan at this point. Since now the pittance of aid US used to give is gone as well there is literally nothing for the US to hold over Pakistan's head.

Pakistan is too strong to ever be in a situation such as Saddam's Iraq since it is a military power whether anyone likes it or not or be like Khomeini's Iran since it has too much backing of China and the Arab world to face the similar sanctions.

Iran also had backing of china and Russia. Infact India too keeps buying iranian oil and investing in Iran. Iran still is in dire straits.

China is facing issues just by the trade tariffs of USA.

Without US sanctions Pakistan is looking at bailouts. If US sanctions come in, it will mean disaster.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's their money they can do what they want with it. They were giving $1.3 billion a year because they wanted Pakistani support, now their needs have changed so they aren't. Although it wouldn't surprise me if behind the scenes there is still plenty of input from the Americans in what goes on in Pakistan.

 

[Napa]

Housing Osama and protecting him for years completely destroyed our credibility internationally, and it will take a lot of effort for the stain to wash away.

We clearly deserve all the negative press, and imagining that he wasn’t there and was simply “planted” by the CIA to frame Pakistan will not help anyone.

Dr. Afridi helped the US find Osama. If Pakistan continues to jail him, it sends out a very clear signal that they did not want Osama to be found.

 

[ShahSaab]

Pakistan Zindabad , Americans have failed big time in Afghanistan , looking for someone to blame their poor planning and execution on.

 

[the Great Khan]

He is right. Pakistan talk as if they want to act against terrorism, but the reality has always been quite the opposite.

Your brother Yadhav says hi

 

[the Great Khan]

Dr. Afridi helped the US find Osama. If Pakistan continues to jail him, it sends out a very clear signal that they did not want Osama to be found.

he was a spy working for a foreing agency..its called treason..look it up..

 

[the Great Khan]

It's their money they can do what they want with it. They were giving $1.3 billion a year because they wanted Pakistani support, now their needs have changed so they aren't. Although it wouldn't surprise me if behind the scenes there is still plenty of input from the Americans in what goes on in Pakistan.

yes and they are now getting the support for free and havent paid what they owe..theres a difference..

 

[the Great Khan]

Iran also had backing of china and Russia. Infact India too keeps buying iranian oil and investing in Iran. Iran still is in dire straits.

China is facing issues just by the trade tariffs of USA.

Without US sanctions Pakistan is looking at bailouts. If US sanctions come in, it will mean disaster.

they dont want to push Pakistan against a wall..that would be dangerous for themm

 

[Napa]

he was a spy working for a foreing agency..its called treason..look it up..

That foreign agency was trying to find Bin Laden. Any right thinking person or organization should have helped them, like the Pakistani government claimed to be doing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That foreign agency was trying to find Bin Laden. Any right thinking person or organization should have helped them, like the Pakistani government claimed to be doing.

The USA carried on giving money to Pakistan long after bin Laden was allegedly found in Pakistan. Does that make sense to you? This is just more smoke and mirrors, Trump and his fake news are only taken seriously by Indians it seems.

 

[Napa]

The USA carried on giving money to Pakistan long after bin Laden was allegedly found in Pakistan. Does that make sense to you? This is just more smoke and mirrors, Trump and his fake news are only taken seriously by Indians it seems.

I am having difficulty keeping track of the multiple conspiracy theories in your post. So Bin Laden was not really found in Pakistan? And Trump is now spouting fake news?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am having difficulty keeping track of the multiple conspiracy theories in your post. So Bin Laden was not really found in Pakistan? And Trump is now spouting fake news?

Try reading it again if it helps, it was only a couple of lines, shouldn't be that hard to digest.

 

[cricketjoshila]

they dont want to push Pakistan against a wall..that would be dangerous for themm

They can. They will if they think its necessary. When they can sanction Russia and start a trade war with china rest hardly matter. Except if all of europe were to be united againist USA.

 

[enkidu_]

Trump administration know that they need Pak to exit from Afg in a more or less honorable manner, and that this war has already costed them some trillion (all of that to have the Talibans more powerful than ever before), so billions or millions to Pak are nothing in front of the more money to lose if they don't find a long term solution.

 

[Vegitto1]

Love how Indians never fail to surprise me. Always playing the teachers pet.

Nobody really cares what THIS President has to say. He lacks common decency as stated by the French recently. There are not many world leaders left whom he hasn't mocked.

Here is him imitating Modi - https://www.indiatoday.in/image-of-...-duties-on-harley-davidson-1178880-2018-02-27

However, it is a open secret that India is serving the same purpose as Israel for the US. both are proxies to keep their respective regions in check. Israel in the Middle East and India in the Asia.

And before Indians challenge that, can they honestly say that they would have been where they are without US backing?

 

[the Great Khan]

They can. They will if they think its necessary. When they can sanction Russia and start a trade war with china rest hardly matter. Except if all of europe were to be united againist USA.

yes they can..but then we will bury them in afghanistan and we would have nothing to lose..remember they sanctioned us in the 90's too..we survived..we can again. and this time we have more allies..

By the way there is a reason we are in bed with the saudis..they help keep a check on the US for us..

 

[shaaik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Record needs to be put straight on Mr Trump's tirade against Pakistan: 1. No Pakistani was involved in 9/11 but Pak decided to participate in US War on Terror. 2. Pakistan suffered 75,000 casualties in this war & over $123 bn was lost to economy. US "aid" was a miniscule $20 bn.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1064482777054220289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">3. Our tribal areas were devastated & millions of ppl uprooted from their homes. The war drastically impacted lives of ordinary Pakistanis. 4. Pak continues to provide free lines of ground & air communications(GLOCs/ALOCs).Can Mr Trump name another ally that gave such sacrifices?</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1064483393335898113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Instead of making Pakistan a scapegoat for their failures, the US should do a serious assessment of why, despite 140000 NATO troops plus 250,000 Afghan troops & reportedly $1 trillion spent on war in Afghanistan, the Taliban today are stronger than before.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1064483937270018048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Americans are in catch 22 situation here. If they financially sanction Pakistan then they’ll be signing death warrants of their troops in Afghanistan. If they don’t, then the current administration will find itself in a highly undesirable position among their voters due to their overtly aggressive posturing. They will have to tone down on the bravado to restore any semblance of normality.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Trump is unpredictable and a loose mouth, won't take a word coming out of this chatterbox seriously.

 

[tonmoy]

If one does an honest assessment , it is not hard to realize that both Pakistan and America are at fault. The only thing that can be argued is "who is at bigger fault (US or Pakistan)?"

It is not nice from Trump to say "Pakistan dont do anything for us?" (because clearly the statement is false) , similarly it is not nice for Imran Khan to blame Trump for the 75000 deaths when It can be safely stated that more than 90% of the death is a result of Pakistanis killing Pakistanis.

 

[Vegitto1]

If one does an honest assessment , it is not hard to realize that both Pakistan and America are at fault. The only thing that can be argued is "who is at bigger fault (US or Pakistan)?"

It is not nice from Trump to say "Pakistan dont do anything for us?" (because clearly the statement is false) , similarly it is not nice for Imran Khan to blame Trump for the 75000 deaths when It can be safely stated that more than 90% of the death is a result of Pakistanis killing Pakistanis.

So according to you, 67,500 Pakistanis were being killed by fellow Pakistanis along the tribal belt each year prior to 9/11 and before Pakistan decided to take part in this "War on Terror"?

 

[tonmoy]

So according to you, 67,500 Pakistanis were being killed by fellow Pakistanis along the tribal belt each year prior to 9/11 and before Pakistan decided to take part in this "War on Terror"?

According to me, there is no excuse for targeting innocent people in public places , schools etc because you feel you have been wronged by somebody else.

 

[Saeed]

Pakistan and U.S.A go over this non sense like every six months. They should get over it already, cut the aid already and stop begging for more aid.

 

[Vegitto1]

According to me, there is no excuse for targeting innocent people in public places , schools etc because you feel you have been wronged by somebody else.

That is not what you said. You said that "90% of the death is a result of Pakistanis killing Pakistanis". So before giving pointless rhetorical statements I advise you to answer my question:

Were "Pakistanis" killing Pakistanis before 9/11? Do you actually believe that around 67,000 people were dying in our tribal areas before 9/11?


As far as "targeting innocent people in public places, schools etc" argument goes. Once Pakistan entered the war it was open season. We had attacks carried out in Pakistan by Indians, Americans, Uzbeks, Afghans, Iranians, Saudis etc posing as Islamic militants or through their proxy funding of groups within Pakistan to further their own agendas.

You have to be really thick to believe that a bunch of tribal folks can obtain tonnes of RDX and TNT to carry out these attacks (in some instances trucks filled with over 500kg worth of RDX) without any outside help.

 

[the Great Khan]

If one does an honest assessment , it is not hard to realize that both Pakistan and America are at fault. The only thing that can be argued is "who is at bigger fault (US or Pakistan)?"

It is not nice from Trump to say "Pakistan dont do anything for us?" (because clearly the statement is false) , similarly it is not nice for Imran Khan to blame Trump for the 75000 deaths when It can be safely stated that more than 90% of the death is a result of Pakistanis killing Pakistanis.

Lets do an honest assessment then shall we?

We got into this war thanks to Musharref and the americans threatening to bomb us into the stone age. Your country was eager to participate in that. He made a tactical decision that proved a mistake.

We provided a rabid dog america that was hell bent on finding an enemy to bomb, access to our logistic routes and communications in exchange for remuneration that they agreed to pay. They sue our roads and airspace and we charge them a knock down rate.

At the same time they saw an opportunity to undermine our country and denuclearise us. However Kiyani and musharref knew they could be trusted to hedged their bets in afghanistan. The saudis helped.

Eventually we knew they would turn on us when their plans to denuclearise us failed. That is when they decided to enact their next plan and recruited your nation to help. Somewhere in the early 00's they convinced Mush to invade the tribal areas so that a situation could be created where a civil war would break out within Pakistan. This would allow them to come and whisk our nukes away by declaring they were helping us and world peace.

They outsourced the training and recruiting of terrorists to your country that now had a massive chance to finally deal with this annoying enemy. Cut them from within and blame them for their own deaths. A masterful strategy. The world media was inundated with news of Pakistan's impending doom ( i can post links here if you want). Pakistan was finished, it would last till 2015 they said. We had indian origin think tank phd's coming on the western media claiming Pakistan was a failed state and needed to be dealt with. Then we got Mumbai and the war really started to rachet up.

Within a few months of that incident Pakistan was facing a massive war on the streets. People were afraid of going to the shops masjids, out to eat. Hotels, masjids, schools everything was bombed. thousands lost their lives. Faced with a bearded enemy that spouted talk of Islam, the population remained confused and shell shocked.

How could fellow Muslims do this? why? but we helped them? And your country laughed in glee as you elected a fascist to take charge and further advance your plan. Then came swat. And finally the nation woke up. The enemy was defeated. But its tentacles were still everywhere. The Indian govt then on numerous occasions expressed its open desire to make Pakistan pay for Mumbai. It had to be isolated culturally and economcially as well as diplomatically. Using its new allies as support it helped initiate the murder of pliticians and the attempted murder of a cricket team. All to further these goals. It succeeded.

the next phase was to initiate a shia uprising in the west to try and separate the mineral rich province of balochistan. The BLA was fully supported using the death of bugti as an excuse and the hesaras were massacred to help initiate some further sectarian strife.

All the while the Pakistani people resiliently took the blows. Like Rocky. Waiting for the right opportunity to strike back. Eventually they did. The operation in the tribal areas destroyed the network of terrorists within that part of the country. Reems and reems of intelligence was obtained that lead to more arrests and operations. Then the betrayel. The Salala incident where a pure act of murder by the US lead to the complete end of the alliance. The raymond davis affair priory had left relations teetering. Salala ended them.

The war carried on until the arrest of Indian spy kulbashan Yadav. By the way the CIA netwwork had been dismantled prior and to this day continues to be. But the arrest of Kulbashan effectively ended the war in Pakistan. Everything is now avaialable to us. Who planeed what, where and how. It is no concidence that the MQM was dismantled like it has been, Nawaz being sent to jail. zardari under pressure.

Trump should shut up and should actually bend down and kiss our feet.. and your country should remember that what goes around comes around. Your cultivating your own taliban in your country and soon they will begin to eat their own..

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Of course we should have captured Osama Bin Laden long before we did. I pointed him out in my book just BEFORE the attack on the World Trade Center. President Clinton famously missed his shot. We paid Pakistan Billions of Dollars & they never told us he was living there. Fools!..</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1064540462848098304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">....We no longer pay Pakistan the $Billions because they would take our money and do nothing for us, Bin Laden being a prime example, Afghanistan being another. They were just one of many countries that take from the United States without giving anything in return. That’s ENDING!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1064544156960387072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[slipcatch]

Why do Indians (mostly Hindu nationalists) always have one dimensional political analysis?

Does it has to do with what they have been fed day in and day out regarding particular countries?

Trump speak without thinking and if that comment in his mind make him look tougher then he would speak out loudly.

 

[tonmoy]

Lets do an honest assessment then shall we?

We got into this war thanks to Musharref and the americans threatening to bomb us into the stone age. Your country was eager to participate in that. He made a tactical decision that proved a mistake.

We provided a rabid dog america that was hell bent on finding an enemy to bomb, access to our logistic routes and communications in exchange for remuneration that they agreed to pay. They sue our roads and airspace and we charge them a knock down rate.

At the same time they saw an opportunity to undermine our country and denuclearise us. However Kiyani and musharref knew they could be trusted to hedged their bets in afghanistan. The saudis helped.

Eventually we knew they would turn on us when their plans to denuclearise us failed. That is when they decided to enact their next plan and recruited your nation to help. Somewhere in the early 00's they convinced Mush to invade the tribal areas so that a situation could be created where a civil war would break out within Pakistan. This would allow them to come and whisk our nukes away by declaring they were helping us and world peace.

They outsourced the training and recruiting of terrorists to your country that now had a massive chance to finally deal with this annoying enemy. Cut them from within and blame them for their own deaths. A masterful strategy. The world media was inundated with news of Pakistan's impending doom ( i can post links here if you want). Pakistan was finished, it would last till 2015 they said. We had indian origin think tank phd's coming on the western media claiming Pakistan was a failed state and needed to be dealt with. Then we got Mumbai and the war really started to rachet up.

Within a few months of that incident Pakistan was facing a massive war on the streets. People were afraid of going to the shops masjids, out to eat. Hotels, masjids, schools everything was bombed. thousands lost their lives. Faced with a bearded enemy that spouted talk of Islam, the population remained confused and shell shocked.

How could fellow Muslims do this? why? but we helped them? And your country laughed in glee as you elected a fascist to take charge and further advance your plan. Then came swat. And finally the nation woke up. The enemy was defeated. But its tentacles were still everywhere. The Indian govt then on numerous occasions expressed its open desire to make Pakistan pay for Mumbai. It had to be isolated culturally and economcially as well as diplomatically. Using its new allies as support it helped initiate the murder of pliticians and the attempted murder of a cricket team. All to further these goals. It succeeded.

the next phase was to initiate a shia uprising in the west to try and separate the mineral rich province of balochistan. The BLA was fully supported using the death of bugti as an excuse and the hesaras were massacred to help initiate some further sectarian strife.

All the while the Pakistani people resiliently took the blows. Like Rocky. Waiting for the right opportunity to strike back. Eventually they did. The operation in the tribal areas destroyed the network of terrorists within that part of the country. Reems and reems of intelligence was obtained that lead to more arrests and operations. Then the betrayel. The Salala incident where a pure act of murder by the US lead to the complete end of the alliance. The raymond davis affair priory had left relations teetering. Salala ended them.

The war carried on until the arrest of Indian spy kulbashan Yadav. By the way the CIA netwwork had been dismantled prior and to this day continues to be. But the arrest of Kulbashan effectively ended the war in Pakistan. Everything is now avaialable to us. Who planeed what, where and how. It is no concidence that the MQM was dismantled like it has been, Nawaz being sent to jail. zardari under pressure.

Trump should shut up and should actually bend down and kiss our feet.. and your country should remember that what goes around comes around. Your cultivating your own taliban in your country and soon they will begin to eat their own..

I am neither from India or USA. I am actually a Canadian citizen (of Bangladesh origin). I agree with some of your analysis and cannot agree with a few other. It will be a long discussion which will derail the thread I think.
I do stand with what I said, both America and Pakistan are to blame. I think they are equally to blame to be honest.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump’s false assertions add insult to the injury Pak has suffered in US WoT in terms of lives lost & destabilised & economic costs. He needs to be informed abt historical facts. Pak has suffered enough fighting US's war. Now we will do what is best for our people & our interests</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1064556017881686021?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why do Indians (mostly Hindu nationalists) always have one dimensional political analysis?

Does it has to do with what they have been fed day in and day out regarding particular countries?

Trump speak without thinking and if that comment in his mind make him look tougher then he would speak out loudly.

Maybe by speaking loudly and brashly he is showing leadership qualities worthy of praise in their eyes?

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump’s false assertions add insult to the injury Pak has suffered in US WoT in terms of lives lost & destabilised & economic costs. He needs to be informed abt historical facts. Pak has suffered enough fighting US's war. Now we will do what is best for our people & our interests</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1064556017881686021?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

problem is Trump can't read anything other than what he writes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Incidentally, good to see Imran Khan has not backed down and started kissing up to the US now he is in power. He has made his points eloquently and forcefully, something Mr Trump could learn from. Trump's language is not befitting a world leader, it would be more appropriate in a hick bar.

 

[KingKhanWC]

From the tweets seems Imran Khan is the leader of a superpower and Trump a 3rd world country.

As I wrote earlier....and this question is open to ALL on here too.

Why can't the US beat a bunch of tribal men? Having the most advanced military in history and allied with dozens of nations? It can't be they are being careful, having blown up hospitals, mosques, children etc.?????

 

[tonmoy]

From the tweets seems Imran Khan is the leader of a superpower and Trump a 3rd world country.

As I wrote earlier....and this question is open to ALL on here too.

Why can't the US beat a bunch of tribal men? Having the most advanced military in history and allied with dozens of nations? It can't be they are being careful, having blown up hospitals, mosques, children etc.?????

It is not a conventional military warfare. It is guerrilla war. It is impossible to determine friends and enemy because they all look the same and wear the same clothes. Of course USA or any military power can just kill everyone and proclaim victory but that is genocide.
You can have all the advanced weaponry in the world but it is impossible to fight militarily and defeat an ideology.

 

[Greenstorm]

Lets do an honest assessment then shall we?

We got into this war thanks to Musharref and the americans threatening to bomb us into the stone age. Your country was eager to participate in that. He made a tactical decision that proved a mistake.

We provided a rabid dog america that was hell bent on finding an enemy to bomb, access to our logistic routes and communications in exchange for remuneration that they agreed to pay. They sue our roads and airspace and we charge them a knock down rate.

At the same time they saw an opportunity to undermine our country and denuclearise us. However Kiyani and musharref knew they could be trusted to hedged their bets in afghanistan. The saudis helped.

Eventually we knew they would turn on us when their plans to denuclearise us failed. That is when they decided to enact their next plan and recruited your nation to help. Somewhere in the early 00's they convinced Mush to invade the tribal areas so that a situation could be created where a civil war would break out within Pakistan. This would allow them to come and whisk our nukes away by declaring they were helping us and world peace.

They outsourced the training and recruiting of terrorists to your country that now had a massive chance to finally deal with this annoying enemy. Cut them from within and blame them for their own deaths. A masterful strategy. The world media was inundated with news of Pakistan's impending doom ( i can post links here if you want). Pakistan was finished, it would last till 2015 they said. We had indian origin think tank phd's coming on the western media claiming Pakistan was a failed state and needed to be dealt with. Then we got Mumbai and the war really started to rachet up.

Within a few months of that incident Pakistan was facing a massive war on the streets. People were afraid of going to the shops masjids, out to eat. Hotels, masjids, schools everything was bombed. thousands lost their lives. Faced with a bearded enemy that spouted talk of Islam, the population remained confused and shell shocked.

How could fellow Muslims do this? why? but we helped them? And your country laughed in glee as you elected a fascist to take charge and further advance your plan. Then came swat. And finally the nation woke up. The enemy was defeated. But its tentacles were still everywhere. The Indian govt then on numerous occasions expressed its open desire to make Pakistan pay for Mumbai. It had to be isolated culturally and economcially as well as diplomatically. Using its new allies as support it helped initiate the murder of pliticians and the attempted murder of a cricket team. All to further these goals. It succeeded.

the next phase was to initiate a shia uprising in the west to try and separate the mineral rich province of balochistan. The BLA was fully supported using the death of bugti as an excuse and the hesaras were massacred to help initiate some further sectarian strife.

All the while the Pakistani people resiliently took the blows. Like Rocky. Waiting for the right opportunity to strike back. Eventually they did. The operation in the tribal areas destroyed the network of terrorists within that part of the country. Reems and reems of intelligence was obtained that lead to more arrests and operations. Then the betrayel. The Salala incident where a pure act of murder by the US lead to the complete end of the alliance. The raymond davis affair priory had left relations teetering. Salala ended them.

The war carried on until the arrest of Indian spy kulbashan Yadav. By the way the CIA netwwork had been dismantled prior and to this day continues to be. But the arrest of Kulbashan effectively ended the war in Pakistan. Everything is now avaialable to us. Who planeed what, where and how. It is no concidence that the MQM was dismantled like it has been, Nawaz being sent to jail. zardari under pressure.

Trump should shut up and should actually bend down and kiss our feet.. and your country should remember that what goes around comes around. Your cultivating your own taliban in your country and soon they will begin to eat their own..

You have summarized post 9/11 situation perfectly. Beautiful post.

 

[slipcatch]

Trump's preposterous bin Laden comments

President Trump spoke to Chris Wallace of Fox News on Sunday and made a number of false claims about the operation that killed Osama bin Laden.

Wallace mentioned the commander of that operation, retired Admiral Bill McRaven, who has publicly criticized Trump for his denigration of the media.

Trump responded that McRaven is a "Hilary Clinton backer and an Obama-backer."

In fact, McRaven took no position on the 2016 presidential election in which Clinton ran against Trump.
McRaven did serve in the US military at a time when President Obama was the president, which makes him no more of an Obama backer than anyone in uniform today is a Trump "backer."

After Trump's Fox interview, McRaven told CNN, "I did not back Hillary Clinton or anyone else. I am a fan of President Obama and President George W. Bush, both of whom I worked for."

McRaven's crime, as far as Trump seems to be concerned, is that he publicly defended former CIA director, John Brennan, in August when the President revoked Brennan's security clearance because of his criticism of Trump.

McRaven has also stood up for the press, which Trump routinely derides as "the enemy of the people." In a speech in Texas last year McRaven said, "This sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime."

In Sunday's interview, Trump went on to claim that bin Laden was "living in Pakistan right next to the military academy, everybody in Pakistan knew he was there."
This is complete nonsense. When I was researching a book about the hunt for bin Laden, I spoke to dozens of key government, intelligence and military officials involved in the bin Laden operation and they all said that the Pakistanis had no clue that al Qaeda's leader was living in the city of Abbottabad, Pakistan where he was found.

On the night of the bin Laden operation, US officials eavesdropped on the communications of top Pakistani officials who were completely surprised by the news that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad.
In the interview Sunday, Trump went on to say, "Wouldn't it have been nice if we got Osama bin Laden a lot sooner than that." This is an appalling smear on the many dozens of men and women at the CIA who dedicated their entire careers to finding bin Laden both before and after 9/11.

The fact is that finding bin Laden took a decade after the 9/11 attacks because he wasn't using any form of electronic communication and relied instead on handheld messages delivered by his trusted courier. As a result, even senior leaders of al Qaeda didn't know where bin Laden was hiding.

The whole issue of the hunt for bin Laden may be a sore subject for Trump because the final countdown for the operation took place during the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner when Obama roasted Trump mercilessly for his penchant for spreading conspiracy theories, such as the so-called "birther" conspiracy, which claimed that Obama wasn't an American citizen.

During a break from rehearsing that speech for the correspondents' dinner, Obama called McRaven for a final status check.

"What do you think about the intel?" Obama asked. The intelligence that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad was entirely circumstantial.

"Well, if he's there, we're going to get him. If he's not, we won't," McRaven answered.

"Exactly! It's 50-50," Obama said, according to reporting from my book about the hunt for bin Laden.

The president wrapped up the call, saying, "I couldn't have any more confidence in you than the confidence I have in you and your force. Godspeed to you and your forces. Please pass on to them my personal thanks for their service and the message that I personally will be following this mission very closely."

The bin Laden raid was, of course, a success. Not only was bin Laden killed, but also thousands of important documents about al Qaeda were recovered during the operation. As a result, it is arguably the most successful special operations mission in American history.
After stepping down from leading the Special Operations Command, McRaven became the chancellor of the University of Texas, where as an undergraduate he had majored in journalism. (He has since retired from that role.)

It's an experience that seems to have shaped McRaven's continuing pushback against Trump's assaults on the press.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/19/opinions/trumps-preposterous-bin-laden-comments-bergen/index.html?utm_source=fbCNN&utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-11-19T17%3A36%3A04&utm_medium=social

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Lets do an honest assessment then shall we?

We got into this war thanks to Musharref and the americans threatening to bomb us into the stone age. Your country was eager to participate in that. He made a tactical decision that proved a mistake.

We provided a rabid dog america that was hell bent on finding an enemy to bomb, access to our logistic routes and communications in exchange for remuneration that they agreed to pay. They sue our roads and airspace and we charge them a knock down rate.

At the same time they saw an opportunity to undermine our country and denuclearise us. However Kiyani and musharref knew they could be trusted to hedged their bets in afghanistan. The saudis helped.

Eventually we knew they would turn on us when their plans to denuclearise us failed. That is when they decided to enact their next plan and recruited your nation to help. Somewhere in the early 00's they convinced Mush to invade the tribal areas so that a situation could be created where a civil war would break out within Pakistan. This would allow them to come and whisk our nukes away by declaring they were helping us and world peace.

They outsourced the training and recruiting of terrorists to your country that now had a massive chance to finally deal with this annoying enemy. Cut them from within and blame them for their own deaths. A masterful strategy. The world media was inundated with news of Pakistan's impending doom ( i can post links here if you want). Pakistan was finished, it would last till 2015 they said. We had indian origin think tank phd's coming on the western media claiming Pakistan was a failed state and needed to be dealt with. Then we got Mumbai and the war really started to rachet up.

Within a few months of that incident Pakistan was facing a massive war on the streets. People were afraid of going to the shops masjids, out to eat. Hotels, masjids, schools everything was bombed. thousands lost their lives. Faced with a bearded enemy that spouted talk of Islam, the population remained confused and shell shocked.

How could fellow Muslims do this? why? but we helped them? And your country laughed in glee as you elected a fascist to take charge and further advance your plan. Then came swat. And finally the nation woke up. The enemy was defeated. But its tentacles were still everywhere. The Indian govt then on numerous occasions expressed its open desire to make Pakistan pay for Mumbai. It had to be isolated culturally and economcially as well as diplomatically. Using its new allies as support it helped initiate the murder of pliticians and the attempted murder of a cricket team. All to further these goals. It succeeded.

the next phase was to initiate a shia uprising in the west to try and separate the mineral rich province of balochistan. The BLA was fully supported using the death of bugti as an excuse and the hesaras were massacred to help initiate some further sectarian strife.

All the while the Pakistani people resiliently took the blows. Like Rocky. Waiting for the right opportunity to strike back. Eventually they did. The operation in the tribal areas destroyed the network of terrorists within that part of the country. Reems and reems of intelligence was obtained that lead to more arrests and operations. Then the betrayel. The Salala incident where a pure act of murder by the US lead to the complete end of the alliance. The raymond davis affair priory had left relations teetering. Salala ended them.

The war carried on until the arrest of Indian spy kulbashan Yadav. By the way the CIA netwwork had been dismantled prior and to this day continues to be. But the arrest of Kulbashan effectively ended the war in Pakistan. Everything is now avaialable to us. Who planeed what, where and how. It is no concidence that the MQM was dismantled like it has been, Nawaz being sent to jail. zardari under pressure.

Trump should shut up and should actually bend down and kiss our feet.. and your country should remember that what goes around comes around. Your cultivating your own taliban in your country and soon they will begin to eat their own..

Very well put.

Can you go into the Salala incident.... it was a game changer

I also believe that certain technological breakthroughs via friends helped pin point the measures needed.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is not a conventional military warfare. It is guerrilla war. It is impossible to determine friends and enemy because they all look the same and wear the same clothes. Of course USA or any military power can just kill everyone and proclaim victory but that is genocide.
You can have all the advanced weaponry in the world but it is impossible to fight militarily and defeat an ideology.

Plenty of nations have been invaded and conquered when faced with resistance. Why didn't the Indians do the same against the Arabs or the British? There are hundreds of other examples too. In the majority of cases the invading forces attempt to take a whole region such areas with Helmand province, they have a firefight with the resistance and when they cant take the village they call in airstrikes. As for simply obliterating the whole nation, this cannot happen in todays world as the conflict will esclate and others will not hold back when attacking Americans or America in any way. The truth is the people of Afghanistan will not tolerate foriegn invaders as nations such as India has done in the past.

 

[Slog]

Pakistan needs to publicize the Salala incident

People seem to conveniently forget and worse, Pakistan doesnt bring attention to it either

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan needs to publicize the Salala incident

People seem to conveniently forget and worse, Pakistan doesnt bring attention to it either

The problem is the mainstream western media, UK, USA & Europe are not free press. Most of the time they parrot the governments propaganda. Any other media which wants to show a different side of the story maybe shut down or ridiculed as we see with Press TV and RT.

The US are having talks with the 'Taliban' at present but they have insisted no talks can move forward when a foriegn army is present, they leave and we will make peace. US could simply withdraw but their agenda is much more complex.

 

[Sirris]

I enjoyed the game of Twitter between Trump and Imran Khan.

 

[CCAD]

Plenty of nations have been invaded and conquered when faced with resistance. Why didn't the Indians do the same against the Arabs or the British? There are hundreds of other examples too. In the majority of cases the invading forces attempt to take a whole region such areas with Helmand province, they have a firefight with the resistance and when they cant take the village they call in airstrikes. As for simply obliterating the whole nation, this cannot happen in todays world as the conflict will esclate and others will not hold back when attacking Americans or America in any way. The truth is the people of Afghanistan will not tolerate foriegn invaders as nations such as India has done in the past.

I guess Indians didn’t have friendly nations to support in way of money, training and providing modern weapons and safe heavens back than.

I can’t get over how dumb this post is.. seriously comparing modern warfare to wars centuries ago.*

 

[KingKhanWC]

I guess Indians didn’t have friendly nations to support in way of money, training and providing modern weapons and safe heavens back than.

I can’t get over how dumb this post is.. seriously comparing modern warfare to wars centuries ago.��*

Why did they need it , it was a big enough country with enough soldiers? Sure and it was a lot easier to defend your nation in those days as now there is a huge gulf in modern weapons. I was comparing the will of the people to resist and it's no brainer Afghans are must more stronger in terms of resistaning invaders.

P.s You have only made a few posts, so plenty of time for you show how dumb you are leading from this post.

 

[Suleiman]

It's interesting, hundreds of years ago man would settle these disputes on the battlefield, these types of conversations would be had by the leaders of each army face to face, full of adrenaline and ready to defend their honor, no outside casualties. Now they shoot tweets at each other from hundreds of miles away from their respective mansions before heading out for a game of golf.

 

[Salma_T]

Very good points made....America likes to use and spit nations out and expects them to stay quite. Good on Imran Khan for replying to Trump and not letting it slide.

 

[IMMY69]

Trump's preposterous bin Laden comments

President Trump spoke to Chris Wallace of Fox News on Sunday and made a number of false claims about the operation that killed Osama bin Laden.

Wallace mentioned the commander of that operation, retired Admiral Bill McRaven, who has publicly criticized Trump for his denigration of the media.

Trump responded that McRaven is a "Hilary Clinton backer and an Obama-backer."

In fact, McRaven took no position on the 2016 presidential election in which Clinton ran against Trump.
McRaven did serve in the US military at a time when President Obama was the president, which makes him no more of an Obama backer than anyone in uniform today is a Trump "backer."

After Trump's Fox interview, McRaven told CNN, "I did not back Hillary Clinton or anyone else. I am a fan of President Obama and President George W. Bush, both of whom I worked for."

McRaven's crime, as far as Trump seems to be concerned, is that he publicly defended former CIA director, John Brennan, in August when the President revoked Brennan's security clearance because of his criticism of Trump.

McRaven has also stood up for the press, which Trump routinely derides as "the enemy of the people." In a speech in Texas last year McRaven said, "This sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime."

In Sunday's interview, Trump went on to claim that bin Laden was "living in Pakistan right next to the military academy, everybody in Pakistan knew he was there."
This is complete nonsense. When I was researching a book about the hunt for bin Laden, I spoke to dozens of key government, intelligence and military officials involved in the bin Laden operation and they all said that the Pakistanis had no clue that al Qaeda's leader was living in the city of Abbottabad, Pakistan where he was found.

On the night of the bin Laden operation, US officials eavesdropped on the communications of top Pakistani officials who were completely surprised by the news that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad.
In the interview Sunday, Trump went on to say, "Wouldn't it have been nice if we got Osama bin Laden a lot sooner than that." This is an appalling smear on the many dozens of men and women at the CIA who dedicated their entire careers to finding bin Laden both before and after 9/11.

The fact is that finding bin Laden took a decade after the 9/11 attacks because he wasn't using any form of electronic communication and relied instead on handheld messages delivered by his trusted courier. As a result, even senior leaders of al Qaeda didn't know where bin Laden was hiding.

The whole issue of the hunt for bin Laden may be a sore subject for Trump because the final countdown for the operation took place during the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner when Obama roasted Trump mercilessly for his penchant for spreading conspiracy theories, such as the so-called "birther" conspiracy, which claimed that Obama wasn't an American citizen.

During a break from rehearsing that speech for the correspondents' dinner, Obama called McRaven for a final status check.

"What do you think about the intel?" Obama asked. The intelligence that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad was entirely circumstantial.

"Well, if he's there, we're going to get him. If he's not, we won't," McRaven answered.

"Exactly! It's 50-50," Obama said, according to reporting from my book about the hunt for bin Laden.

The president wrapped up the call, saying, "I couldn't have any more confidence in you than the confidence I have in you and your force. Godspeed to you and your forces. Please pass on to them my personal thanks for their service and the message that I personally will be following this mission very closely."

The bin Laden raid was, of course, a success. Not only was bin Laden killed, but also thousands of important documents about al Qaeda were recovered during the operation. As a result, it is arguably the most successful special operations mission in American history.
After stepping down from leading the Special Operations Command, McRaven became the chancellor of the University of Texas, where as an undergraduate he had majored in journalism. (He has since retired from that role.)

It's an experience that seems to have shaped McRaven's continuing pushback against Trump's assaults on the press.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/19/opinions/trumps-preposterous-bin-laden-comments-bergen/index.html?utm_source=fbCNN&utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-11-19T17%3A36%3A04&utm_medium=social

Please bookmark this article.

 

[humzy]

Plenty of nations have been invaded and conquered when faced with resistance. Why didn't the Indians do the same against the Arabs or the British? There are hundreds of other examples too. In the majority of cases the invading forces attempt to take a whole region such areas with Helmand province, they have a firefight with the resistance and when they cant take the village they call in airstrikes. As for simply obliterating the whole nation, this cannot happen in todays world as the conflict will esclate and others will not hold back when attacking Americans or America in any way. The truth is the people of Afghanistan will not tolerate foriegn invaders as nations such as India has done in the past.

Thats incorrect if you think nations give in without any resistance. Read your history.

You are trying to make the Afghans into some mythical great warlords. We are all just people bro.

The Afghans are harder to invade in the past due to the terrain.

You didn't have bombs and advanced weaponry to help mitigate the terrain factors.

Now its harder for countries to invade because even though their is weaponry to mitigate terrain (just blow up the whole place) there has to be a moral obligation to the rest of the world to behave in a way that looks like they are not their to destroy, pillage and rape everyone.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan’s prime minister has hit back at Donald Trump after he accused the country of harbouring Osama bin Laden while receiving US aid.

Imran Khan took to Twitter to respond to the claims and said that Pakistan had suffered 75,000 casualties and lost $123bn in the US War On Terror.

The former cricketer also added that the US had only provided a "miniscule" $20bn in aid and stressed that Pakistan had faced a huge burden despite none of its citizens being involved in the September 11 attacks.

Mr Trump had claimed that "everybody in Pakistan" knew bin Laden was there and no one said anything despite the US providing $1.3bn a year in aid.

The US president said he taken the decision to cut off the aid "because they don't do anything for us, they don't do a damn thing for us", he told Fox News.

US commandos killed bin Laden in a May 2011 raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, where he had been living in seclusion in a house near a well-known military academy.

Pakistan has always denied that it knew about bin Laden's whereabouts prior to the raid, which was carried out without its knowledge.

Mr Trump also criticised the Navy SEAL, William McRaven, who led the operation who has been critical of his presidency so far.

“He’s a Hillary Clinton backer, and an Obama backer, and frankly, wouldn’t it have been nice if we’d have got Osama Bin Laden a lot sooner than that?” Mr Trump said.

The US and Afghanistan have long accused Pakistan of turning a blind eye to Islamic extremists and of harbouring leaders of the Afghan Taliban.

Pakistan has always denied those allegations, pointing to the heavy toll of its war against the Pakistani Taliban, a separate militant group that carries out attacks inside the country.

Mr Khan said Pakistan's tribal areas along the border have been devastated by years of war, with millions uprooted from their homes.

He also pointed to the logistical support Pakistan has provided for the US war in Afghanistan.

The main overland supply route for American forces fighting in Afghanistan runs through Pakistan.

Mr Khan said the US has made Pakistan a "scapegoat" for its failures in Afghanistan, where the Taliban are stronger than at any point since the 2001 US-led invasion.

Agencies contributed to this report

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-osama-bin-laden-twitter-latest-a8641551.html

 

[saadibaba]

I have to agree with Trump here. Even though Pakistan has suffered a lot, its not because of doing what US have asked them to do, but rather doing what US asked them not to do i.e. stop harboring terrorist and militant groups, stop using proxies to meddle in and influence neighboring countries, etc. Pakistan did all that and more all the while telling US they are doing all they can and kept taking the handout. OBL's discovery in the heart of our military's garrison town and US's decision not to tell us about the raid after it happened were not co-incidences. Of course, our PM has to take a tough stance because our Army wont have it any other way. Look what happened to NS after he uttered a few words about our supposed involvement in the Mumbai attacks. What Trump said was right and what he is doing is right as well. The sooner Pakistan understands and stop hiding behind excuses and learn to deal the real root of the problem, the better for them and the rest of the world.

 

[Zahid87]

Thats incorrect if you think nations give in without any resistance. Read your history.

You are trying to make the Afghans into some mythical great warlords. We are all just people bro.

The Afghans are harder to invade in the past due to the terrain.

You didn't have bombs and advanced weaponry to help mitigate the terrain factors.

Now its harder for countries to invade because even though their is weaponry to mitigate terrain (just blow up the whole place) there has to be a moral obligation to the rest of the world to behave in a way that looks like they are not their to destroy, pillage and rape everyone.

The question is can the foreign invaders tolerate Afghanistan?

The historical problem has been Afghanistan does not pay / yield enough to justify the cost of invasion...unless you then go and invade Punjab, which can cover the cost of holding Afghanistan.

The myth of the Afghan/Pakthun warrior is absolute nonsense, and perpetuates a negative stereotype. But it suits the likes of KKWC, who need to use it, especially when stung by comments from across the border.

 

[Zahid87]

I have to agree with Trump here. Even though Pakistan has suffered a lot, its not because of doing what US have asked them to do, but rather doing what US asked them not to do i.e. stop harboring terrorist and militant groups, stop using proxies to meddle in and influence neighboring countries, etc. Pakistan did all that and more all the while telling US they are doing all they can and kept taking the handout. OBL's discovery in the heart of our military's garrison town and US's decision not to tell us about the raid after it happened were not co-incidences. Of course, our PM has to take a tough stance because our Army wont have it any other way. Look what happened to NS after he uttered a few words about our supposed involvement in the Mumbai attacks. What Trump said was right and what he is doing is right as well. The sooner Pakistan understands and stop hiding behind excuses and learn to deal the real root of the problem, the better for them and the rest of the world.

Certain posters will be frothing at the mouth...extremist liberal views!

What no one ever really wants to confront is that there has been a view taken by the Army and the Intelligence services, that certain militants are to be backed and protected as assets, whilst others can be got after.

Now you can call this hedging your bets...you can term it as supporting the 'resistance' if you are particularly blind, but the fact is that the Pakistani Army were paid mercenaries...doing half the job. If the Haqqani network et all were pursued, then the Afghanistan 'problem', from the global and US POV, would be much easier to solve. Can't help that Pakistan has been backing the other, more savage, horse - whilst some how trying to keep the moral high ground.

Now that they have been called out on it, you can't really hide. Doesn't matter too much who the messenger is.

 

[Bewal Express]

I have to agree with Trump here. Even though Pakistan has suffered a lot, its not because of doing what US have asked them to do, but rather doing what US asked them not to do i.e. stop harboring terrorist and militant groups, stop using proxies to meddle in and influence neighboring countries, etc. Pakistan did all that and more all the while telling US they are doing all they can and kept taking the handout. OBL's discovery in the heart of our military's garrison town and US's decision not to tell us about the raid after it happened were not co-incidences. Of course, our PM has to take a tough stance because our Army wont have it any other way. Look what happened to NS after he uttered a few words about our supposed involvement in the Mumbai attacks. What Trump said was right and what he is doing is right as well. The sooner Pakistan understands and stop hiding behind excuses and learn to deal the real root of the problem, the better for them and the rest of the world.

Off course you agree with Trump because our Interests dont matter- only the Americans do.

 

[the Great Khan]

Certain posters will be frothing at the mouth...extremist liberal views!

What no one ever really wants to confront is that there has been a view taken by the Army and the Intelligence services, that certain militants are to be backed and protected as assets, whilst others can be got after.

Now you can call this hedging your bets...you can term it as supporting the 'resistance' if you are particularly blind, but the fact is that the Pakistani Army were paid mercenaries...doing half the job. If the Haqqani network et all were pursued, then the Afghanistan 'problem', from the global and US POV, would be much easier to solve. Can't help that Pakistan has been backing the other, more savage, horse - whilst some how trying to keep the moral high ground.

Now that they have been called out on it, you can't really hide. Doesn't matter too much who the messenger is.

wonder who your talking about there. But lets be objective. Lets agree to certain realities.

Did we support the mujahideen? yes
Did we support the Taliban? yes
Did we continue to support them post 9/11? yes and no.
Did we support the TTP? no.
Did we make mistakes? yes.
Did we suffer for this policy? yes.
Did we have a choice? No.

Why do you think the US is in afghanistan? if anybody thinks they are there to defeat the Taliban or whatever the insurgency is called these days, is living on a pink cloud in care-a-lot.

They are willing to spend billions of dollars to ensure they have a presence here. This is extreme next gen planning. They arent here for today. They are for tomorrow and whats coming over the horizon.

 

[Zahid87]

Off course you agree with Trump because our Interests dont matter- only the Americans do.

Then be clear about it - interests of Pakistan are to have the Taliban in some sort of power in Afghanistan...no matter what the normal Afghan thinks about it...

 

[the Great Khan]

Very well put.

Can you go into the Salala incident.... it was a game changer

I also believe that certain technological breakthroughs via friends helped pin point the measures needed.

well I spoke to a serving army officer on my recent trip to Pakistan because I have a theory about Salala but he gave me the Army line. Which goes along the lines of they wanted revenge and committed cold blooded murder. But inmho thats just the line the PA has been peddling.

The truth inmho based on my own analysis of events around at the time (and this is all based on public statements, etc etc and the revealing of news from the guardian and wikileaks), is that this was a attack to eliminate witnesses. Now what do you say were they witnessing? well what eventually became a fact. The support for death squads in the tribal area by the US.

You see the Salala post had just engaged the TTP a while back and were on alert for TTP movement in the area at night. Sure enough they were engaged by the TTP and fired back. This lead to a firefight. But what really astounded the PA was the presence of American special forces that were also present there. They were fuly engaged with the "TTP" and when targeted as is their want, called in airstrikes. Imagine if the senior officer had survived the engagement. Do you think he would have kept his mouth shut? no. He had to be eliminated and the post had to be destroyed lest the truth come out.

The guardian confirmed American support for a 3000 man militia or death squad that was being sent into the tribal areas to kill tribals and other pakistanis. It is my firm belief that the PA engaged one of these squads and suffered for exposing them.

 

[the Great Khan]

Then be clear about it - interests of Pakistan are to have the Taliban in some sort of power in Afghanistan...no matter what the normal Afghan thinks about it...

No. Our interest is to ensure the govt of afghanistan is not friendly towards India to our detriment. Whether thats with the taliban or anybody else..at the moment the govt of afghanistan is an Indian stooge and must be dealt with.

 

[Zahid87]

wonder who your talking about there. But lets be objective. Lets agree to certain realities.

Did we support the mujahideen? yes
Did we support the Taliban? yes
Did we continue to support them post 9/11? yes and no.
Did we support the TTP? no.
Did we make mistakes? yes.
Did we suffer for this policy? yes.
Did we have a choice? No.

Why do you think the US is in afghanistan? if anybody thinks they are there to defeat the Taliban or whatever the insurgency is called these days, is living on a pink cloud in care-a-lot.

They are willing to spend billions of dollars to ensure they have a presence here. This is extreme next gen planning. They arent here for today. They are for tomorrow and whats coming over the horizon.

Of course the US is not in Afghanistan to bring Democracy there. They are securing their interests, and installing a friendly regime.

Every country is out do do the same - secure their interests, including Pakistan.

What I find grating is the positioning of this stance from certain people. We are no angels. Pakistan is not involved in supporting the righteous resistance. Pakistan is supporting a regime which Pakistan deems friendly, and yes, the US is doing the same. What the general Afghan thinks matters to neither, though both would like to propagate that they are supporting the popular choice of the people on the ground.

Pakistan did agree to stop supporting this same regime when Musharraf agreed to participate in Bush's WOT. Did Pakistan really carry out what they said they would do. No. Whether you believe the Army was within its rights to do what it felt was best is different...fact is that they said one thing and did another.

So when someone, albeit the idiot that is Trump, insinuates that Pakistan did not keep its end of the deal (I know you will argue that is was a forced ultimatum more than a deal)...I don't see it as a lie. Its true.

 

[Zahid87]

No. Our interest is to ensure the govt of afghanistan is not friendly towards India to our detriment. Whether thats with the taliban or anybody else..at the moment the govt of afghanistan is an Indian stooge and must be dealt with.

See, I can live with that. So long as everyone is forthcoming with reality.

As I said in another post, what I can't live with is the perception the Army (and by extension, the state) is a wronged, innocent angel in this whole scenario, and is coming to save and support our poor Afghan brothers.

 

[Bewal Express]

Then be clear about it - interests of Pakistan are to have the Taliban in some sort of power in Afghanistan...no matter what the normal Afghan thinks about it...

PK wants someone friendly because it faces a threat from Ind on the other border- Afgh was never friendly towards PK- just look at who voted against the creation of PK and the fact that we took millions of refugees and helped to save them from Russian rule should at the minimum mean a friendly govt. As far what the Afghans think- maybe you can ask what the Iranians thought when Musadiq was overthrown in Iran by the Americans, or the Chileans thought when Allende was overthrown by the Americans and the list can go on and on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Of course the US is not in Afghanistan to bring Democracy there. They are securing their interests, and installing a friendly regime.

Every country is out do do the same - secure their interests, including Pakistan.

What I find grating is the positioning of this stance from certain people. We are no angels. Pakistan is not involved in supporting the righteous resistance. Pakistan is supporting a regime which Pakistan deems friendly, and yes, the US is doing the same. What the general Afghan thinks matters to neither, though both would like to propagate that they are supporting the popular choice of the people on the ground.

Pakistan did agree to stop supporting this same regime when Musharraf agreed to participate in Bush's WOT. Did Pakistan really carry out what they said they would do. No. Whether you believe the Army was within its rights to do what it felt was best is different...fact is that they said one thing and did another.

So when someone, albeit the idiot that is Trump, insinuates that Pakistan did not keep its end of the deal (I know you will argue that is was a forced ultimatum more than a deal)...I don't see it as a lie. Its true.

Do you even know what the general Afghan thinks? If Pakistan is a failed state, I don't know how you would describe Afghanistan, it is a minefield of competing interests and prejudices. Trying to find a common ground with 'the general Afghan' is probably not the easiest task. Pakistan like everyone else will be trying to negotiate with the factions which will be most co-operative to shared interests.

 

[Zahid87]

Do you even know what the general Afghan thinks? If Pakistan is a failed state, I don't know how you would describe Afghanistan, it is a minefield of competing interests and prejudices. Trying to find a common ground with 'the general Afghan' is probably not the easiest task. Pakistan like everyone else will be trying to negotiate with the factions which will be most co-operative to shared interests.

Not claiming I do.

Again, all that would be nice, is to accept that Pakistan's interests may not coincide with the interests of 'the general Afghan'. Therefore, to look at the USA as a foreign oppressor, whose only motive is to install a friendly government is a bit rich. No moral high ground to be taken.

Also, not so sure that 'the general Afghan', thinks very highly of the last regime that was installed and supported by the Army. You can ask a few of the resident Afghan's though....I'm sure they will have an opinion.

 

[asifp]

one should ask Trump this question: How is the drug trade doing in Afghanistan?

Forget everything else. If one understands the economics, they will figure out exactly what is happening here. Its all about $$$, everything else is smoke and mirrors

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not claiming I do.

Again, all that would be nice, is to accept that Pakistan's interests may not coincide with the interests of 'the general Afghan'. Therefore, to look at the USA as a foreign oppressor, whose only motive is to install a friendly government is a bit rich. No moral high ground to be taken.

Also, not so sure that 'the general Afghan', thinks very highly of the last regime that was installed and supported by the Army. You can ask a few of the resident Afghan's though....I'm sure they will have an opinion.

Which resident Afghans are you referring to? Resident in Pakistan? Afghanistan? Or on this site?

As for US being a foreign oppressor, I am not sure that is how I would describe them, the only thing they are is a very long way from the US, and it appears they aren't going back home in a hurry so I assume they have some deep investment there, which is backed by military force. Beats me why people whine about Pakistan military presence on their own border, yet they see nothing wrong with armies from the other side of the world setting up camp in Afghanistan.

 

[topspin]

Housing Osama and protecting him for years completely destroyed our credibility internationally, and it will take a lot of effort for the stain to wash away.

We clearly deserve all the negative press, and imagining that he wasn’t there and was simply “planted” by the CIA to frame Pakistan will not help anyone.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I've read many reports that this these are fake allegations in an attempt to undermine Pakistan, when actually he had died some years prior to this so called " capture of OBL in Pakistan".

If it is true then why did they not disclose the footage of his body or the capture and secondly why did they dump his body in the sea?

I'm not the most informed on this topic I admit but these are questions to ponder for anyone with even a pinch of critical thinking. We shouldn't accept things at face value like this unless we know all the facts.

 

[topspin]

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I've read many reports that this these are fake allegations in an attempt to undermine Pakistan, when actually he had died some years prior to this so called " capture of OBL in Pakistan".

If it is true then why did they not disclose the footage of his body or the capture and secondly why did they dump his body in the sea?

I'm not the most informed on this topic I admit but these are questions to ponder for anyone with even a pinch of critical thinking. We shouldn't accept things at face value like this unless we know all the facts.

If anyone else can enlighten me on this it would be very much appreciated. As implied in my post above, I might just be oblivious to it all.

 

[IMMY69]

If anyone else can enlighten me on this it would be very much appreciated. As implied in my post above, I might just be oblivious to it all.

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