Pakistan is missing the services of a good fast bowling all-rounder in Tests

[observer1]

One role that will solve a lot of problems with Pakistan (and most teams) would be the Fast Bowling All-Rounder. Something that Ben Stokes brings to the England team.


Abdul Razzaq and Azhar Mahmood come to mind first and were more than useful. Especially the former. They were no Imran Khan but they could bat and pick up a few wickets behind Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib Akhtar

Rana Naved and Yasir Arafat were handy with the bat which offered the team some psychological boost lower down when chasing.

Rao Iftikhar wasn't a world beater but he was capable of holding his own, much like Mohammed Amir is today so long as there is a proper batsman on the other end.

Other than that, I can't think of anyone who can offer even some form of last stand support for the team aside from spinners Shadab and Yasir.

Nasheem, Abbas and Shaheen would do well to bring 20 runs to the table.

PCB have tried desperately to shoe-horn Faheem Ashraf into this role as he certainly has the goods and talent. He always seems to fall under pressure on the International stage however.

It appears PCB are relying on Shadab Khan to provide that batting role as a 5th bowling option. Two spinners however, is a very big ask considering Yashir Shah will usually be there as the first pick.

Is there any other talent there in the domestic circuit that offers this role?

I had hopes for Hasan Ali as he can clearly it the ball well - He seems to have fallen of the radar completely however.

I suppose worst case scenario, we could get Azhar Ali to bowl a few military medium overs.

 

[gazza619]

I am guessing you are referring to test cricket mainly. You see even the likes of Razzaq and Mahmood hardly won Pakistan any test matches. We have always been a team relying on 3 quality fast bowlers, 1 good spinner and then a decent part time spinner to chip in a few overs.

I dont see anybody in domestic circuit worth trying except for Ammad Butt may be.

There is still a good option for Pakistan though. We now need to invest in Shadab Khan and say good bye to Yasir Shah. Shadab has the qualities to be our 5th bowler and is more than a handy batsman.

This will allow us to then play 3 proper fast bowlers and a 4 seamer who can bat decent at number 8. Shaheen needs to improve his batting and should aim to give us 10-15 runs at number 9.

 

[zain7077]

Shadab Khan and Zafar Gohar at 7 and 8 in Asia

Shadab Khan and Ehsan Adil at 7 and 8 in SENA.

 

[shamaan]

Shadab gohar in asia

Sena
Shadab and yamin
Shadab ammad butt

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I am guessing you are referring to test cricket mainly. You see even the likes of Razzaq and Mahmood hardly won Pakistan any test matches. We have always been a team relying on 3 quality fast bowlers, 1 good spinner and then a decent part time spinner to chip in a few overs.

I dont see anybody in domestic circuit worth trying except for Ammad Butt may be.

There is still a good option for Pakistan though. We now need to invest in Shadab Khan and say good bye to Yasir Shah. Shadab has the qualities to be our 5th bowler and is more than a handy batsman.

This will allow us to then play 3 proper fast bowlers and a 4 seamer who can bat decent at number 8. Shaheen needs to improve his batting and should aim to give us 10-15 runs at number 9.

You’re forgetting Wasim Akram — guy must surely count as a bowling all rounder

 

[Junaids]

I agree with the general OP, but I’d like to add a little sophistication.

In Tests, Misbah is stuck 40 years in the past, with a keeper, and then EITHER an all-rounder plus three bowlers, or just four bowlers.

So Pakistan often field 3 or 4 Number Elevens.

That doesn’t work with a geriatric top order who fail too often.

If Rizwan bats at 6 they require:

1. A Number 7 who can average 30-35.
2. A Number 8 who can average 25-30.
3. A Number 9 who can average 20-25.

I would dump Yasir Shah outside Asia, especially as he’s already 34 years old (at least)

So I’d play Shadab at 7, and in Asia I’d add Zafar Gohar at 8.

At this stage Hasan Ali and Faheem Ashraf need to work on their batting more than their bowling.

It’s not like the 3-4 Number Elevens are doing great with the ball anyway. In England even Yasir Shah averaged 10 more with the ball than Shadab Khan!

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I agree with the general OP, but I’d like to add a little sophistication.

In Tests, Misbah is stuck 40 years in the past, with a keeper, and then EITHER an all-rounder plus three bowlers, or just four bowlers.

So Pakistan often field 3 or 4 Number Elevens.

That doesn’t work with a geriatric top order who fail too often.

If Rizwan bats at 6 they require:

1. A Number 7 who can average 30-35.
2. A Number 8 who can average 25-30.
3. A Number 9 who can average 20-25.

I would dump Yasir Shah outside Asia, especially as he’s already 34 years old (at least)

So I’d play Shadab at 7, and in Asia I’d add Zafar Gohar at 8.

At this stage Hasan Ali and Faheem Ashraf need to work on their batting more than their bowling.

It’s not like the 3-4 Number Elevens are doing great with the ball anyway. In England even Yasir Shah averaged 10 more with the ball than Shadab Khan!

Why is it Misbah that’s stuck 40 years in the past when Faheem Ashraf and Hasan Ali just aren’t good enough nor is anyone else?

It comes down to the NHPC and how we develop fast bowling all rounders in domestic.

 

[imranyounus]

there were couple of decent AR in under 19 team I think one afridi and another who is off spinning one

 

[Thunderbolt14]

there were couple of decent AR in under 19 team I think one afridi and another who is off spinning one

Abbas Afridi and Qasim Akram. They were really unimpressive honestly.

 

[saeed5646]

Aziz cheema mention Muhammad imran name .One to look forward

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Ehsan adil can bat. Hammad azam does well in domestic FC games.

Yamin is the best bet around , his speed in bowling should be increased somehow.

 

[Manzy2599]

Yes they’ve been missing a pace bowling all rounder since Razzaq. I don’t understand how it’s been 8 years and the best we had was Faheem ashraf who’s average at best and more focused on selfies and Instagram than his cricket. Having no cricket at home really hurt Pakistan cricket, no quality all rounder in a country with 220 million + population. Amir Yamin should be given more chances. I hope there’s a few stokes/pandya type all rounders for Pak in the next generation of cricketers.

 

[shamaan]

Yes they’ve been missing a pace bowling all rounder since Razzaq. I don’t understand how it’s been 8 years and the best we had was Faheem ashraf who’s average at best and more focused on selfies and Instagram than his cricket. Having no cricket at home really hurt Pakistan cricket, no quality all rounder in a country with 220 million + population. Amir Yamin should be given more chances. I hope there’s a few stokes/pandya type all rounders for Pak in the next generation of cricketers.

U only get stokes one in a generation player

 

[Junaids]

Why is it Misbah that’s stuck 40 years in the past when Faheem Ashraf and Hasan Ali just aren’t good enough nor is anyone else?

It comes down to the NHPC and how we develop fast bowling all rounders in domestic.

have you seen Faheem Ashraf's Test record?

BATTING AVERAGE 23.00
BOWLING AVERAGE 26.09 (Economy 3.18, Strike rate 49.0)

People keep saying he's rubbish because he's rubbish with a white ball.

But give him SENA conditions and a slip cordon and he's got a very good record.

His entire Test record is:

83 and DNB
37 and DNB
0 and 3
0 and 15

1-18 and 0-51
1-28 and 0-31
3-60
3-57 and 3-42

If a bowler with that record didn't exist, we would be wanting to find one.

But he already exists!

 

[Rana]

What Pakistan needs is a good fast bowler to develop his batting enough to bat as a number 7. Faheem Ashraf is still an unreliable bowler unfortunately and comes across as a soft cricketer IMO.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

have you seen Faheem Ashraf's Test record?

BATTING AVERAGE 23.00
BOWLING AVERAGE 26.09 (Economy 3.18, Strike rate 49.0)

People keep saying he's rubbish because he's rubbish with a white ball.

But give him SENA conditions and a slip cordon and he's got a very good record.

His entire Test record is:

83 and DNB
37 and DNB
0 and 3
0 and 15

1-18 and 0-51
1-28 and 0-31
3-60
3-57 and 3-42

If a bowler with that record didn't exist, we would be wanting to find one.

But he already exists!

Faheem just doesn’t inspire confidence. Let’s exclude the matches against Ireland - I back Shan Masood to get figures of 83 and DNB, 1-18 and 0-51 against them.

So let’s limit to the rest. Looking at just 2 matches against England, Ashraf got scores of 37, 0, and 3, with the last two dismissals actually concealing a stupid slog and a missed lbw chance.

Then, you look at the bowling figures. He got 1 wicket in 2 innings in the first test followed by 3 wickets in the second test where England won by a margin of an innings and 55 runs. That is to say:

1-28 and 0-31
3-60

Here are Fawad Alam’s figures:
2-46

Asad Shafiq:
1-24

Cherrypicking figures and you can make Shan Masood into Ben Stokes!

I agree that Faheem provides balance in an attack consisting of Amir, Abbas, and Hasan Ali. But he emphatically does NOT find a place in an attack of the likes of Abbas, Shaheen, and Naseem where we’re already playing two inexperienced pacers with Amir retired and Hasan Ali injured.

It just doesn’t compute. He’s an excellent 4th pacer and 5th bowler but we’re essentially playing two 3rd pacers in Shaheen and Naseem. Faheem would have been spanked like no tomorrow had he played these test matches.

 

[zacattakk]

If the amount of time/games wasted on Faheem had been invested in Aamer Yamin we probably would have had a half decent batting allrounder/medium pacer. Until we could identify and develop someone younger and better for the longer term.

At the very least, if Faheem was the first choice pace bowling allrounder identified by the selectors and coach, Yamin should have been pursued with as a backup or alternative option with A team selection, high level coaching and perhaps some international game time when the opportunity arose. Or selected as a squad player where he could have worked with national team coaches, trained in an international setup with the top talent, bowled in the nets and tested in tour matches. That would have been better rather than useless selections like Sohail Khan and Imran Khan senior.

 

[sweep_shot]

If the amount of time/games wasted on Faheem had been invested in Aamer Yamin we probably would have had a half decent batting allrounder/medium pacer. Until we could identify and develop someone younger and better for the longer term.

At the very least, if Faheem was the first choice pace bowling allrounder identified by the selectors and coach, Yamin should have been pursued with as a backup or alternative option with A team selection, high level coaching and perhaps some international game time when the opportunity arose. Or selected as a squad player where he could have worked with national team coaches, trained in an international setup with the top talent, bowled in the nets and tested in tour matches. That would have been better rather than useless selections like Sohail Khan and Imran Khan senior.

I think Faheem didn't get a lengthy run. He only played 4 Tests (bowling average of 26.09 and batting average of 23.00). He should've gotten more chances in Test.

 

[zacattakk]

I think Faheem didn't get a lengthy run. He only played 4 Tests (bowling average of 26.09 and batting average of 23.00). He should've gotten more chances in Test.

The sample size is too small to judge him by those test numbers. Watching him bat in limited overs cricket where he had a reasonable number of games, he has subjectively looked like a tailender blindly slogging. Sure I agree they could have given him more games in tests although I am a little skeptical of how well he would have done with the bat. But his last test appearance was under Mickey Arthur so I guess Misbah doesn't think he is good enough.

 

[saabir]

I remember few years ago when selectors dump Razzak and said they have unearthed 2 all-rounders. 1 was Bilawal Bhatti and other was Anwer Ali. What happened to those 2 all rounders??? This guy Faheem is a decent bowler but his batting is very average. I saw him bat in ODIs and t20 he was looking very mediocre in fact Hassan Ali in those matches were looking better than him

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan is missing service of good fast bowlers.

 

[Hasan123]

How many times are we going go hear that this mythical all rounder is going to turn around our test team?

You need quality batters and bowlers to be a good test team. Pakistan do not have enough of these.

I would rather play with 4 specialist bowlers,6 batters , and a keeper as long as they make the team on merit for there field. Australia drew The Ashes and competed in India with 4 bowlers, India won in Australia with 4 bowlers. You pick an all rounder when they are good enough to make the team on one of batting or bowling merit alone.

 

[Markhor]

Honestly I've been torn on this 5th bowler issue.

I was very vocal against it before the England tour because I felt our batting was too weak and I didn't trust Rizwan at 6 given his output until then in Test cricket.

However having A) seen Rizwan bat exceptionally well in difficult conditions; B) the fact we've two young pacers in Shaheen and Naseem who we mustn't overburden; and C) Yasir's expensiveness means I've become more flexible on this.

The problem is who to play as your allrounder ? We can play four seamers if Shadab slots in for Yasir but I don't believe Shadab has the control to be your sole spinner - he needs to play more FC cricket. Faheem is a dud with the bat, I won't be fooled by his small Test sample size - I've seen him in LOIs and he's little more than a cowlasher. He cannot bat at 7. His bowling is ordinary.

There is an alternative Pakistan haven't tried in Tests and that's Aamer Yamin. Now his bowling is not even as good as Shadab or Faheem, with his pace being around 75-80mph. However he's twice the batsman, averaging 61 in the QEA Trophy last season. He's good enough to bat at 7, question is can he bowl 10 tidy overs a day to give our frontline seamers a rest ?

I'd say take him to tours of England, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies only. However he doesn't appear to be on Misbah's radar and Yamin's not getting any younger.

 

[angrypathan]

Honestly I've been torn on this 5th bowler issue.

I was very vocal against it before the England tour because I felt our batting was too weak and I didn't trust Rizwan at 6 given his output until then in Test cricket.

However having A) seen Rizwan bat exceptionally well in difficult conditions; B) the fact we've two young pacers in Shaheen and Naseem who we mustn't overburden; and C) Yasir's expensiveness means I've become more flexible on this.

The problem is who to play as your allrounder ? We can play four seamers if Shadab slots in for Yasir but I don't believe Shadab has the control to be your sole spinner - he needs to play more FC cricket. Faheem is a dud with the bat, I won't be fooled by his small Test sample size - I've seen him in LOIs and he's little more than a cowlasher. He cannot bat at 7. His bowling is ordinary.

There is an alternative Pakistan haven't tried in Tests and that's Aamer Yamin. Now his bowling is not even as good as Shadab or Faheem, with his pace being around 75-80mph. However he's twice the batsman, averaging 61 in the QEA Trophy last season. He's good enough to bat at 7, question is can he bowl 10 tidy overs a day to give our frontline seamers a rest ?

I'd say take him to tours of England, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies only. However he doesn't appear to be on Misbah's radar and Yamin's not getting any younger.

Yep, surely Yamin can play the same role as Colin De Grandhomme, even if he is half the size

 

[Junaids]

Honestly I've been torn on this 5th bowler issue.

I was very vocal against it before the England tour because I felt our batting was too weak and I didn't trust Rizwan at 6 given his output until then in Test cricket.

However having A) seen Rizwan bat exceptionally well in difficult conditions; B) the fact we've two young pacers in Shaheen and Naseem who we mustn't overburden; and C) Yasir's expensiveness means I've become more flexible on this.

The problem is who to play as your allrounder ? We can play four seamers if Shadab slots in for Yasir but I don't believe Shadab has the control to be your sole spinner - he needs to play more FC cricket. Faheem is a dud with the bat, I won't be fooled by his small Test sample size - I've seen him in LOIs and he's little more than a cowlasher. He cannot bat at 7. His bowling is ordinary.

There is an alternative Pakistan haven't tried in Tests and that's Aamer Yamin. Now his bowling is not even as good as Shadab or Faheem, with his pace being around 75-80mph. However he's twice the batsman, averaging 61 in the QEA Trophy last season. He's good enough to bat at 7, question is can he bowl 10 tidy overs a day to give our frontline seamers a rest ?

I'd say take him to tours of England, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies only. However he doesn't appear to be on Misbah's radar and Yamin's not getting any younger.

The answer to this, is just look at the 2018 and 2020 bowling attacks sent to England:

2018 attack - it had DEPTH!
Mohammad Amir aged 29
Mohammad Abbas aged 28
Hasan Ali aged 24
Faheem Ashraf aged 24
Shadab Khan aged 19

2020 attack - shallow and short of options
Shaheen Shah Afridi aged 20
Mohammad Abbas aged 30
Naseem Shah aged 19 (probably)
Yasir Shah aged 34

There is a major problem when you are in SENA and you only have 3 quicks.

- You get to 40 minutes into the First Session, and both your opening bowlers have already bowled a 5 over spell and need a break.

- You can bring on your only other seamer at one end - but you HAVE TO bring on Yasir Shah prematurely at the other end - wasting a new ball which is only 10 overs old.

A Dukes ball is "new" for 30 overs, and a Kookaburra for 20 overs - but the 4 man attack makes you waste most of that.

Pakistan keeps wasting Yasir Shah in SENA in a role which is not required.

Yasir Shah bowls long spells in SENA as a stock bowler, and his record is striking.

Yasir Shah has played 15 Tests in SENA, all from 2016-20.
15 Tests
43 wickets, average 55.81
Strike Rate 85.20
Economy Rate 3.92

In comparison:

Hasan Ali
5 Tests outside Asia
15 wickets, average 34.20
Strike Rate 62.6
Economy Rate 3.27

Faheem Ashraf
4 Tests outside Asia
11 wickets, average 26.09
Strike Rate 49.0
Economy Rate 3.18

These are the problems with using Yasir Shah outside Asia:

1. He can't bat at Number 7 like Shadab Khan, so HE REPLACES A FOURTH QUICK.

2. He once did well in the last innings in two Tests in England, aged 30. But at 34 at Old Trafford he was incapable of doing that any more. Can he even dismiss teams on the last day outside Asia any more?

3. Picking Yasir as the fourth bowler squanders the new ball - because already at 10 or 12 overs into the innings he needs to replace one of the opening bowlers.

4. Yasir Shah's record outside Asia is much worse than the two alternatives to be the fourth bowler:

COMPARISON OF FOURTH BOWLER TEST RECORDS OUTSIDE ASIA

AVERAGE:
Yasir Shah 55.81
Hasan Ali 34.20
Faheem Ashraf 26.09

STRIKE RATE:
Yasir Shah 85.20
Hasan Ali 62.60
Faheem Ashraf 49.00

ECONOMY RATE:
Yasir Shah 3.92
Hasan Ali 3.27
Faheem Ashraf 3.18

On every indicator, it makes no sense to play Yasir Shah in place of a fourth quick bowler.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] I’m wondering what your objective analysis on Faheem is. If you genuinely think this guy can average 26 over his career outside Asia, what exactly makes him so special? Control over line and length? Pace? Skiddy off the surface? Seam or swing?

Truth is, unless he improves, he looks more like a 34 average bowler and 20 average batsman.

 

[Junaids]

How many times are we going go hear that this mythical all rounder is going to turn around our test team?

You need quality batters and bowlers to be a good test team. Pakistan do not have enough of these.

I would rather play with 4 specialist bowlers,6 batters , and a keeper as long as they make the team on merit for there field. Australia drew The Ashes and competed in India with 4 bowlers, India won in Australia with 4 bowlers. You pick an all rounder when they are good enough to make the team on one of batting or bowling merit alone.

I completely disagree with this. It's too simplistic.

You can't win Test matches with 4 Jimmy Andersons or Jasprit Bumrahs.

You are never going to have 4 absolutely top class bowlers. And your third best and fourth best need to contribute runs.

The great West Indies team had 4 great quicks - the best combination of which was:

ROBERTS - GARNER - HOLDING - MARSHALL

But that team wasn't the one that achieved the Blackwash (and Marshall was a decent Number 9.)

The team that achieved the Blackwash replaced the fourth specialist fast bowler with Eldine Baptiste?

Who? Exactly!

Baptiste was a fast-medium all-rounder who was in no way superior to Faheem Ashraf. But he could bat at Number 8 and shorten the tail, and ensure that when the West Indies was 173-6 at Lords and 70-6 at The Oval he could add enough runs to turn that into 245 all out and 190 all out - from which they WON.

Pakistan has the same problem.

They lost at Old Trafford last month. Yasir Shah's second innings slogfest lifted 120-6 to 169 all out - but he only lasted 24 balls.

Go back two years.

On debut, Faheem Ashraf came in at 159-6 and got out at 304-8, after batting for FORTY OVERS for 83 runs. He turned a losing position into a foundation for victory.

In his next Test he came in at 246-5 and lifted them to 318 all out, batting for SEVENTEEN OVERS for 37 runs.

When a team has a failed geriatric top order like Pakistan it needs runs from the lower order more than ever.

Picking four - or even three - Number Elevens is just negligent.

 

[Hasan123]

I completely disagree with this. It's too simplistic.

You can't win Test matches with 4 Jimmy Andersons or Jasprit Bumrahs.

You are never going to have 4 absolutely top class bowlers. And your third best and fourth best need to contribute runs.

The great West Indies team had 4 great quicks - the best combination of which was:

ROBERTS - GARNER - HOLDING - MARSHALL

But that team wasn't the one that achieved the Blackwash (and Marshall was a decent Number 9.)

The team that achieved the Blackwash replaced the fourth specialist fast bowler with Eldine Baptiste?

Who? Exactly!

Baptiste was a fast-medium all-rounder who was in no way superior to Faheem Ashraf. But he could bat at Number 8 and shorten the tail, and ensure that when the West Indies was 173-6 at Lords and 70-6 at The Oval he could add enough runs to turn that into 245 all out and 190 all out - from which they WON.

Pakistan has the same problem.

They lost at Old Trafford last month. Yasir Shah's second innings slogfest lifted 120-6 to 169 all out - but he only lasted 24 balls.

Go back two years.

On debut, Faheem Ashraf came in at 159-6 and got out at 304-8, after batting for FORTY OVERS for 83 runs. He turned a losing position into a foundation for victory.

In his next Test he came in at 246-5 and lifted them to 318 all out, batting for SEVENTEEN OVERS for 37 runs.

When a team has a failed geriatric top order like Pakistan it needs runs from the lower order more than ever.

Picking four - or even three - Number Elevens is just negligent.

The specialist bowlers will obviously need to work on their batting but not expecting them to have the numbers of a top order player. They are in the team for the bowling so if they do the job with the ball they won't be needed with the bat.