zaid65
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Pakistan National Assembly session presided by the president of the country.
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This is the kind of mentality that I would love to see purged from Pakistan. Thanks God, one less dictator lover in Pakistan.feather said:I wish we can have one of these maybe we we finally get somewhere.
Calm, collected and seated. Supposedly paying attention as well. I will take this any day of the week.
Unfortunately, this will never happen. People think the army is the solution to all political problemsCryptoanalyst said:This is the kind of mentality that I would love to see purged from Pakistan. Thanks God, one less dictator lover in Pakistan.
waqar_ahmad said:Unfortunately, this will never happen. People think the army is the solution to all political problems
srh said:I dont agree with zaid65 usually but he is absolutely right here. Pakistan is in this mess because of military establishment. I would take a democrat like Fatima Jinnah over a military dictator like Ayub Khan every time. Just because Musharaff has done some very good things does not mean Military rule is halal now.
zaid65 said:Can you point out what Musharaf has done good for Pakistan?
srh said:I dont agree with zaid65 usually but he is absolutely right here. Pakistan is in this mess because of military establishment. I would take a democrat like Fatima Jinnah over a military dictator like Ayub Khan every time. Just because Musharaff has done some very good things does not mean Military rule is halal now.
This is not army's job to run the Steel Mill, PIA, KDA, WAPDA, sell the real estate and make billions and transfer the money into foreign accounts.
Democracy works when the public is informed and educated. Pakistan's public is neither and while zaid has made some good points about why democracy works better (accountability etc), the fact is that there's no accountability in Pakistan regardless of whether it's the military or civilian government.
Having said that a military dictator is definitely not the way to go for Pakistan but then our public isn't capable of putting the right person in power - case and point we have Mr. 12% in power.
I looked at the picture. Calm, collected and supposedly paying attention. Since we were I believe talking about the Assembly in session. I wished that I would love to see our national Assembly in session which is remotely close to this.
How many times does our national assembly meet? Have you seen how those animals in the assembly behave? They behave worse then 1st graders. Bunch of morons put together in the same place.
Get your facts right. I was only hoping perhaps one day we will see calm, collected educated people in our assembly. Perhaps then Pakistan would get somewhere.
For those of you who seem to think Army has done all wrong. What has the peoples government done? NOTHING. You don't need 50 years to get something right. So far this government has not done anything that is going to benefit Pakistan in the short or the long run.
Yes, Mush went horribly wrong later in his years. When he started with full control he did do many good things. He did invite companies to do business in Pakistan. Railway, electric for the first time in Pakistan history became profitable.
Mush gave us the local government.
..why don't you tell me how many high ranking officers in the army you know that are anti-Pakistan or pro-American. How many local government officials you know that hold their seats because the public voted for them.
srh said:The one thing I really dont like about Pakistan army is that they are involved in business side. You can see in all types of businesses Pakistan army is there whether its property-dealing, industrial, banking or heck cereal, pastry etc. Why they are doing it and who gave them the authority to get involved in these businesses? Can somebody tell me any other country whose army do this stuff? No. Its not their job. Period. No wonder Pakistan army is considered very corrupt.
suhaib said:all thoses businesses profits go back into the army, pakistans army may run like a big organisation but its 1000 times better then the politians who mint money and make mills all over the world for their own bank accounts, wheater you like it or not army has worked for the country and defended the country, politians have done jack other then pile up their bank accounts, its a shame but army has even made more development projects in pakistan then politians, nearly all the water and power projects were done by the army,
all thoses businesses profits go back into the army,
srh said:suhaib if I am objecting against army's business operations it does not mean I am in favour of politician's businesses. We all know most of the politicians are corrupt. And people may feel Zardari is most corrupt of all of them but I think its Nawaz Shariff who is much more corrupt than Zardari. Remember his father was a lohar and now Nawaz Shariff is the richest man of Pakistan far more richer than Zardari. Some media organization should investigate him and then the real picture will come out.
But back to the point. An Army's job is to fight or prepare for the fight. Its not their job to conduct a business. The government takes care of all army's needs so there is no need for Army to get into business. When they get into business they start getting corrupt. Then they also start becoming coward as the love of money surpass the love of fight. Now Pakistan army is considered a joke in west who cannot fight the ragtag soldiers of Taliban.
zaid65 said:And once money goes back to army, they spend on the welfare of the people... ) )
I am not the one with my eyes closed. You like to point out the corruption of generals what about the entire government structure being corrupt.
oh man very good points. Its amazing Nawaz Shariff gets away with so much corruption. Nobody in media dare talk about his corruption. I think he has given money or favours to all major journalists for them to keep quiet about his corruption.suhaib said:no.. they make steel mills in saudia arabia, buy apartments in park lane and manhattan and make palaces in raiwind
I have been to Pakistan and I visit Pakistan often. I have seen all the so called development taking place. Most of the big real estate projects were passed and started under the Mush government. I have seen the good and the bad.
I thought there was a quota for women. Is this a new image?zaid65 said:Pakistan National Assembly session presided by the president of the country.
feather said:I am not someone who likes to get personal and this has nothing to do with me being a tech here or not. You seem like a young person to me who seems to know everything. How many times have I avoided your questions and threads simply because you always seem to think you have asked some brilliant questions that can not be answered.
Your someone who presents his opinions as facts which is not acceptable. It seems anyone who disagrees with you is unaware of history...can't ask tough questions because we get our information from fox news and are blind to everything else that happens in this world. I believe things such as this are offense.
Anyway since you failed miserbly earlier that you had to reply back twice in selective portions. I will revisit the arguement again.
- Corruption is not part human nature. Your WRONG. If corruption was part of human nature...then do you not consider the generals to be human? Why is it that one set of humans can be corrupt and it is perfectly fine with you while the other group being corrupt is not kosher anymore.
- Pakistani politicians have only looted Pakistan and their people. There is no such thing as accountability for these people. Which ever party is in power will loot the country. It was the Army that brought cases against these people. It was the masses that want these people back in power and have voted them back into power.
I have not said the Army has done no wrong but hasn't the masses brought known crooks back into power. So where is the accountability? It is the government of Pakistan that prepares the budget. It is the government of Pakistan that favors certain generals over others. So the root cause of the problem again is the government. They always played part in who was in the top ranks of the army and it has back fired on them more then once. Army corruption is at much higher ranks rather then civilian or government positions.
Mush & Shuakat Aziz tried to bring investors by providing some questionable deals/offers to certain companies. Again they were auctioning off assets. This would have worked if our people were not so anti-everything outside.
No one wants to be in Pakistan because they become the targets. Hence the failure in some cases. Far as the government or Mush party is concerned. I made it very clear this was his biggest mistake. Under pressure and Mush wanting to be a good guy. He wanted to bring peoples government into power. His biggest mistake in my opinion.
He forgot the most important thing. We only vote for crooks in Pakistan. We only pick people who have looted us or will loot us in the future. Everyone who is/was corrupt came back to power? who brought them back to poweR? The people of Pakistan.
People in Pakistan are/were either with Nawaz or with bhutto at the time. Mush simply didn't have a choice so once he started compromising...he just went down the drain as well.
* It was you who mentioned the big projects in your defense of the government. I only pointed out these projects started within Mush time. It isn't the army that is building them but private businesses. If they can build 100 floor buildings my friend. I am certain they can build their own small power plants as well.
Just for your information. Mush did try to built a huge network of dams. The government provided a french company with a contract to fix the entire grid system in Pakistan only for their workers to be kidnapped and threatned. They left the contract in the middle.
Again so far you have failed to point out how the peoples government has benefitted us so far. Yes, you have pointed out the wrongs the Army has done but then again nothing to show us that we should persist with the peoples government when the people are hell bent on electing crooks to the office.
How hard is it to understand that corruption is 2nd nature to us Pakistanis. Not only those who are in the Army or politics. We are not going to get anywhere unless we fix ourselves. You take the easy route by blaming the person on the top while forgetting...the masses are corrupt themselves.
Corruption is not part human nature. Your WRONG.
If corruption was part of human nature...then do you not consider the generals to be human? Why is it that one set of humans can be corrupt and it is perfectly fine with you while the other group being corrupt is not kosher anymore.
Pakistani politicians have only looted Pakistan and their people. There is no such thing as accountability for these people. Which ever party is in power will loot the country. It was the Army that brought cases against these people. It was the masses that want these people back in power and have voted them back into power.
Mush & Shuakat Aziz tried to bring investors by providing some questionable deals/offers to certain companies. Again they were auctioning off assets
It isn't the army that is building them but private businesses.
No one wants to be in Pakistan because they become the targets. Hence the failure in some cases. Far as the government or Mush party is concerned. I made it very clear this was his biggest mistake. Under pressure and Mush wanting to be a good guy. He wanted to bring peoples government into power.
How hard is it to understand that corruption is 2nd nature to us Pakistanis. Not only those who are in the Army or politics. We are not going to get anywhere unless we fix ourselves. You take the easy route by blaming the person on the top while forgetting...the masses are corrupt themselves
I simply do not share your views of Army being the root cause of problems. I actually feel the opposite. Generals have always been favored over others. The very same generals have stabbed the very people who brought them to power.
In order for democarcy to work...people have to play their part which they don't and haven't.
I do not need to protect Mush or anyone else. Questionable deals is the perfect way to describe those deals. When your auctioning off assets...they are never valued at market price.
I am from Jhelum and you can't built a plaza unless your paying the city nazim good amount of money. You can't even build a gas station in the city without paying someone. It brings me back to the point I made earlier "the masses are corrupt - We as people are corrupt ourselves" Yes, huge projects might have bribed the generals but remember the local government has been in place for years now...the same old corrupt people representing the people. The money goes to them for the most part.
Again, it was the people of Pakistan who wanted those cases to be dropped. Some never believed Mush.
Mush brought in the local government early in his rule. Which meant most of the corrupt were already back in power. I have already said at this point he could only compromise and went down the drain
Since so far you have failed to point out what is so great about the peoples government and why we should stick with them cause so far they have not done anything for the people. I don't see any reason we should continue this debate any longer.
Loving how the Nooras are frothing at the mouth.
Chori ki hai tou bhuktu
PTI with a new policy and plan to counter PML-N
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The funniest part was some noonie jyalsas in NA tried to counter it by saying gali gali main shor he imran khan chor he but PTI walas were already shouting it about NS so it backfired for noonies and gone against against them because for their own line of gali gali main shor he they were getting the reply nawaz shareef chor he )
Does Khawaja Saad Rafiq have no fear of Allah? How can he not acknowledge that Nawaz Sharif did lie in the national assembly?
The funniest part was some noonie jyalsas in NA tried to counter it by saying gali gali main shor he imran khan chor he but PTI walas were already shouting it about NS so it backfired for noonies and gone against against them because for their own line of gali gali main shor he they were getting the reply nawaz shareef chor he )
Loyalty to Allah is just in words. In reality these people are loyal to their worldly Gods.
First they cashed dollars through family chain by being loyal to Moudoodi than upon saturation and signal they became loyal to his highness Sharif.
From being humble backgrounds 40 years back now they are part of Pakistan elite. Drive cars worth 5 million plus, have properties worth more than 100 million, have flourishing businesses all due to the blessing of the ibadat called siasat.
They were neither highly educated indivisuals nor entreprenaurs.
Fruits of concocted democracy.
Pakistani syaasat aisi ibadat hai jiska ajar dunya main hi mil jata hai
Din raat ibaadat kar k, mulk ki khidmat kar k apni steel mills bhi sona ugalti hain, dunya bhar main daulat aur mulk ki steel mill tak nahi chalti