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Pakistan ODI bowling attack best in the world?

MenInG

MenInG

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On placid pitches they can do so well, and they can better on more supportive pitches. So what do you think?
 
MenInG said:
On placid pitches they can do so well, and they can better on more supportive pitches. So what do you think?
Click to expand...

Lankans were struggling to cross 200 against Indians just a few weeks ago on belters.

Below are their scores in the 3 match ODI series.

Lanka - 217/9 in 50 Overs
India - 218/4 in 45 overs

India - 375/5 (50 Overs)
Lanka - 207 All out (42 Overs)

Lanka - 238 All out (49 Overs)
India - 239/4 (46 Overs)

This Lankan ODI side is on the same level or less than Zimbos.

Pak should perform the same against better oppositions to be given the best bowling unit title.
 
well they were the best bowling attack in the CT and the form seems to be carrying on in this series.
 
SL lost an ODI series to Zimbos recently and got blanked 0-5 by Indians at home, their LOI side is very poor, baring odd miracles they don't win often against top sides.
 
I said this before the CT.

It's not just those who make the XI but the strength in depth is very good. Not many teams can lose a bowler like Amir and replace him with someone as special as Rumman.
 
troodon said:
Lankans were struggling to cross 200 against Indians just a few weeks ago on belters.

Below are their scores in the 3 match ODI series.

Lanka - 217/9 in 50 Overs
India - 218/4 in 45 overs

India - 375/5 (50 Overs)
Lanka - 207 All out (42 Overs)

Lanka - 238 All out (49 Overs)
India - 239/4 (46 Overs)

This Lankan ODI side is on the same level or less than Zimbos.

Pak should perform the same against better oppositions to be given the best bowling unit title.
Click to expand...

I think you have not watched the last 4 matches Pakistan have played before this?
they were the only team in the CT that dismissed the opposition 4 times in a row below the score 250
now its 5th time in a row
bowling out India,SA,England is no piece of cake
 
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Premature thread. The signs are definitely there, but we need to be consistent in our performances.
 
Its a good bowling attack,but many teams have a good attack atm.Lets see in WC where it actually matters.

Australia - Starc,Hazelwood,Cummins etc
South africa - Rabada,Steyn,Morkel,Tahir
India- Bumrah,Bhuvn.K,Shami,kuldeep/chahal,pandya
Even england bowling is competitive.

How good pak bowling is will depend on amir and support spinner.
 
Thread may end up like golden era of batting for Pakistan.

Let bowlers do it consistency for a long period and climb through the ranks.
 
Similar attack (Amir, Hasan and Junaid) got pummelled in Australia, its premature to label it the best in the world. But it wouldn't be wrong to say it's the most in-form bowling attack in LO cricket.
 
KingKhanWC said:
I said this before the CT.

It's not just those who make the XI but the strength in depth is very good. Not many teams can lose a bowler like Amir and replace him with someone as special as Rumman.
Click to expand...

What's special about Rumman?
 
Yes, said it before the CT too. Captain utilizes the bowlers well otherwise similar attack was destroyed in Australia and England last year.
 
NOOO. 3 consecutive series for bowlers then we can decide and no CT'17 doesn't count :)
 
Abdul said:
What's special about Rumman?
Click to expand...

Solid run up, excellent repetative action.

Great control, ability to move the ball both ways.

Excellent number of slower balls, cutters etc.

Wicket taker who has had a very good start to his internnational career, replaced Amir in a big semi final against the tournament favourites and showed a good bottle.

What's wrong with him?
 
Kaptaan also knows how to use his resources too. Same bowlers looked toothless under his predecessor.
 
troodon said:
Lankans were struggling to cross 200 against Indians just a few weeks ago on belters.

Below are their scores in the 3 match ODI series.

Lanka - 217/9 in 50 Overs
India - 218/4 in 45 overs

India - 375/5 (50 Overs)
Lanka - 207 All out (42 Overs)

Lanka - 238 All out (49 Overs)
India - 239/4 (46 Overs)

This Lankan ODI side is on the same level or less than Zimbos.

Pak should perform the same against better oppositions to be given the best bowling unit title.
Click to expand...

Last 4 matches, Pakistan bowled out the opposition (England, SL, India, SL)
and before that we won vs SA and restricted them to under 220 (for the loss of 8)

basically, Pakistan satisfy your criteria.
 
One pacer & one genuine spinner short, but still I think it's overall best attack - main reason being other attacks are even poor & not suitable for every condition. May be AUS attack in AUS or SAF attack in SAF is as good, but they are not all-round attack. Indian attack actually is far balanced than AUS & Pom across globe.

Raees is good, but may be just not that what I am looking for. Amir, Hasan & one new ball bowler (better than Raees/JK, otherwise Raees) and Raza Hasan as spinner, partnering Shadab - that'll be undisputed best attack; may be in UK one pace bowling all-rounder will compete with Raza, Shadab for the 5th bowling spot. To be honest, Imad is the weak link in ODI attack; doesn't provide wicket taking threat much.
 
They have won a series of big matches. Till the results prove otherwise, they should be acknowledged as the best ODI bowling attack at the moment. I assume the next challenge for the Pakistani team will be when they play SA.
 
Napa said:
They have won a series of big matches. Till the results prove otherwise, they should be acknowledged as the best ODI bowling attack at the moment. I assume the next challenge for the Pakistani team will be when they play SA.
Click to expand...
We head down to NZ in early Jan for a LOI series.
 
They have done well the last 6 months.

I wouldn't call them the best just yet but def up there.
 
Hope we can find a hit the deck pace bowler. With that we'll he every close to being the best attack in the world. Need to be more consistent over a long period to say for definate we are the best bowling attack in the world.
 
Plumb said:
CT'17 games performance for bowlers makes one "the best in World":salute
Click to expand...

Why are you jumping from one extreme to another? Sure CT performance alone don't make someone the best in the world but performance in a global tournament can't just be ignored like you want them to be.
 
Too early to call the best but they are in good form and needs to be continued long way to go only 6th in the ranking at the moment.
Sri Lanka look prone to a few collapses but 4 matches left nothing won at the moment.
 
Second only to Australia's first choice attack. Reminds me of circa 2011-2013 when we had the best LO attack in the world. Whereas other teams were losing after posting 320, we would beat teams after paltry totals > 270.

Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Rumman, Riaz, Imad, Shadab and all-rounders like Hafeez, Faheem, Malik and Haris providing support.

The depth, quality and x-factor is unbeatable. When these guys get on a roll, there is no stopping them as we showed during the CT 17.

Current bowling attacks ranked from best to worst (top seven):

1) Australia
2) Pakistan
3) South Africa
4) India
5) England
6) New Zealand
7) Bangladesh
 
Hasan123 said:
Hope we can find a hit the deck pace bowler. With that we'll he every close to being the best attack in the world. Need to be more consistent over a long period to say for definate we are the best bowling attack in the world.
Click to expand...

We already have two in Hassan and Riaz. Deadly when they come on first change during the 15-30 overs period
 
At the moment I'd say they are the most in-form.

If we assume Amir, Starc & Hazlewood fit I'd still back Australia's- just. In the UAE, it might be a draw or Pakistan already- the seamers are skilled & suit those conditions (Raess anyway, Hasan Ali is handy anywhere I'd think) and the spin options are superior for Pakistan.

But 6 more months of good form and we start to think, this isn't form, this is quality that is here to stay.
 
Bilal7 said:
Second only to Australia's first choice attack. Reminds me of circa 2011-2013 when we had the best LO attack in the world. Whereas other teams were losing after posting 320, we would beat teams after paltry totals > 270.

Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Rumman, Riaz, Imad, Shadab and all-rounders like Hafeez, Faheem, Malik and Haris providing support.

The depth, quality and x-factor is unbeatable. When these guys get on a roll, there is no stopping them as we showed during the CT 17.

Current bowling attacks ranked from best to worst (top seven):

1) Australia
2) Pakistan
3) South Africa
4) India
5) England
6) New Zealand
7) Bangladesh
Click to expand...

What exactly is Australia's first choice attack?

How many times has their pace quartet ever bowled together? There's little value in saying they have the best attack when it only exists on paper.
 
Bilal7 said:
We already have two in Hassan and Riaz. Deadly when they come on first change during the 15-30 overs period
Click to expand...

Please don't mention Hassan and Riaz in the same sentence.

Riaz should never play another LOI.
 
mak36 said:
What exactly is Australia's first choice attack?

How many times has their pace quartet ever bowled together? There's little value in saying they have the best attack when it only exists on paper.
Click to expand...

Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Coulter-Nile. They play together about as often as every single one of Amir, Junaid & Hassan Ali are all fit to play at the same time :)
But that's ok, we only need 3 on deck at any one time. Lyons would be our best spinner but Zampa is getting the nod at the moment.
 
PS. 50% of that best attack played together and did ok at the last world cup. + Johnson.

Sub Coulter-Nile or Cummins in for Johnson, and it's another potential WC winning, world #1 attack.

Our problem is we can't bat away from home.
 
Each of Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson and Coulter-Nile could be the main strike bowler for any team in the world. Australia's pace battery is superb, only challenge is keeping them all fit.
 
Bilal7 said:
Second only to Australia's first choice attack. Reminds me of circa 2011-2013 when we had the best LO attack in the world. Whereas other teams were losing after posting 320, we would beat teams after paltry totals > 270.

Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Rumman, Riaz, Imad, Shadab and all-rounders like Hafeez, Faheem, Malik and Haris providing support.

The depth, quality and x-factor is unbeatable. When these guys get on a roll, there is no stopping them as we showed during the CT 17.

Current bowling attacks ranked from best to worst (top seven):

1) Australia
2) Pakistan
3) South Africa
4) India
5) England
6) New Zealand
7) Bangladesh
Click to expand...

Australia are definitely the best pace bowling attack, but I would not put them on top overall. They don't really have any high-quality spin options. South Africa and Pakistan are both higher when it comes to overall balance.
 
Bilal7 said:
Each of Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson and Coulter-Nile could be the main strike bowler for any team in the world. Australia's pace battery is superb, only challenge is keeping them all fit.
Click to expand...

Well same thing can be said about Amir, Hasan and Irfan, I am talking about 7 footer, if he is fully fit, he is better than any bowler, but can he ever be? - Same can be said about Patty.

I am also very excited about Shaheen Afridi, we are still 18 months away from WC, he can be what Shoiab was in 99, our fast bowling resources are looking as good as anybody, actually better than anybody for English conditions where WC is going to happen.

Amir bowls better than Strac in England, Hasan is middle overs king, we are getting our reverse swing mojo back. All of a sudden we are looking like 90s attack for English conditions. Not one or two, 5 matches in a row we kept four team( three of top four) below 230 in this day and age, let’s see how many can do that ;-)

We have spinners to throw at western sides and pacers at Asian, not to mention we start reversing earlier than others, that makes us most well rounded, we are going to get better from here, watch out 😎😎😎
 
Its the variety which is just ridiculous

Amir: Genuine opening bowler with pace, swing and seam both ways. Not to forget the cheeky cutters at death.

Junaid: Decent bowler with good line and length and can seam the ball both ways. Goes for runs sometimes.

Hasan: Wonderful 1st change pacer who always hustles the batsmen for pace. Has pace, seam and swing. Bowls wicket-taking deliveries very often. Very good at death with his variations. Can go for runs due to his attacking mindset.

Rumman: Typical line and length seamer who'll almost always be economical. Gets good movement off the pitch.

Shadab Khan: Rookie leg-spinner with a world class googly. Gets loads of turn and is also a gun fielder. Can go for runs sometimes but he'll learn.

Imad: Handy bowler who's usually very economical with a consistent stump to stump line and has a wonderful arm-ball.

Every single one of them brings something different to the table and they hunt in pairs. Just need a good enough off-spinner (Hafeez does the job nowadays) and maybe a genuine 150 Kph pacer for this attack to be world-beaters in any condition.

Definitely the best in LOIs atm.
 
Bilal7 said:
We already have two in Hassan and Riaz. Deadly when they come on first change during the 15-30 overs period
Click to expand...


Riaz is just rubbish. And Hasan Ali isn't a hit the deck bowler. He's too small to be one lol. We need a 6 foot bowler who can get extra bounce. This will round our attack up nicely.
 
Buffet said:
Thread may end up like golden era of batting for Pakistan.

Let bowlers do it consistency for a long period and climb through the ranks.
Click to expand...
MIG bhai is a smart guy, he didn’t make a statement but put it up as a question.
 
Last edited:
As far as ODIs bowling are concerned
South africa
Australia
Pakistan
India
New zealand
England . . . they are consistently allowing oppositions to score over 300 runs
West indies
Sri lanka
 
troodon said:
Lankans were struggling to cross 200 against Indians just a few weeks ago on belters.

Below are their scores in the 3 match ODI series.

Lanka - 217/9 in 50 Overs
India - 218/4 in 45 overs

India - 375/5 (50 Overs)
Lanka - 207 All out (42 Overs)

Lanka - 238 All out (49 Overs)
India - 239/4 (46 Overs)

This Lankan ODI side is on the same level or less than Zimbos.

Pak should perform the same against better oppositions to be given the best bowling unit title.
Click to expand...

You mean like SAF, England and India?

Glad that's settled!
 
Hadi Rizvi said:
Its the variety which is just ridiculous

Amir: Genuine opening bowler with pace, swing and seam both ways. Not to forget the cheeky cutters at death.

Junaid: Decent bowler with good line and length and can seam the ball both ways. Goes for runs sometimes.

Hasan: Wonderful 1st change pacer who always hustles the batsmen for pace. Has pace, seam and swing. Bowls wicket-taking deliveries very often. Very good at death with his variations. Can go for runs due to his attacking mindset.

Rumman: Typical line and length seamer who'll almost always be economical. Gets good movement off the pitch.

Shadab Khan: Rookie leg-spinner with a world class googly. Gets loads of turn and is also a gun fielder. Can go for runs sometimes but he'll learn.

Imad: Handy bowler who's usually very economical with a consistent stump to stump line and has a wonderful arm-ball.

Every single one of them brings something different to the table and they hunt in pairs. Just need a good enough off-spinner (Hafeez does the job nowadays) and maybe a genuine 150 Kph pacer for this attack to be world-beaters in any condition.

Definitely the best in LOIs atm.
Click to expand...

The idea that a varied attack is a good attack has been the bane of PCB selection policy for years. For years people thought Pace (Riaz), Height (Irfan), was 2/3s of a world beating unit.

Truth is we don't yet have is a truly world class strike spinner a la Ajmal or Tahir or one of the Indian bowlers who seem to rotate in and out of that role. In that respect SAF looks a better rounded bowling unit, as does Indias. The secret is not variety but quality. We have some good, skilled bowlers now. Hasan, Amir when he's in a big tourney; now both Rumman and Junaid are proving more than handy.

Let's not forget this kessin, and keep rewarding domestic talent that proves itself with results, not would-be hopefuls who show "potential" a la Rahat. We don't need some random quasi phast spray gun to round out this tight disciplined unit. We need more quality.
 
How can we judge that without playing India in an ODI series?
 
Mohammad Amir
Junaid Khan
Rumman Raees

Hassan Ali

Shadab Khan
Imad Wasim
Mohammad Hafeez
Shoaib Malik

This is a very versatile attack. But let's wait for them to perform against different oppositions outside UAE before claiming that they're the best.

That said, winning CT is a great accomplishment.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Australia are definitely the best pace bowling attack, but I would not put them on top overall. They don't really have any high-quality spin options. South Africa and Pakistan are both higher when it comes to overall balance.
Click to expand...

Good point. Although they do have Zampa, who is full of potential, and Maxwell does a decent job.

yasir said:
Well same thing can be said about Amir, Hasan and Irfan, I am talking about 7 footer, if he is fully fit, he is better than any bowler, but can he ever be? - Same can be said about Patty.

I am also very excited about Shaheen Afridi, we are still 18 months away from WC, he can be what Shoiab was in 99, our fast bowling resources are looking as good as anybody, actually better than anybody for English conditions where WC is going to happen.

Amir bowls better than Strac in England, Hasan is middle overs king, we are getting our reverse swing mojo back. All of a sudden we are looking like 90s attack for English conditions. Not one or two, 5 matches in a row we kept four team( three of top four) below 230 in this day and age, let’s see how many can do that ;-)

We have spinners to throw at western sides and pacers at Asian, not to mention we start reversing earlier than others, that makes us most well rounded, we are going to get better from here, watch out 😎😎😎
Click to expand...

Again, good points made. I haven't seen this new Afridi but I hope you're right. A genuinely fast bowler would add an extra dimension to this pace attack because Riaz is regressing.

Hasan123 said:
Riaz is just rubbish. And Hasan Ali isn't a hit the deck bowler. He's too small to be one lol. We need a 6 foot bowler who can get extra bounce. This will round our attack up nicely.
Click to expand...

Riaz is not rubbish. He's a decent back-up option who can be deadly on his day. He also loves performing at the grandest stages so we should not discard him yet. You don't have to be tall to be that kind of bowler. Hassan bowls good lengths and is quick enough to be the enforcer in our team.

MenInG said:
How can we judge that without playing India in an ODI series?
Click to expand...

We did, in 2012. Left after making the whole of India cry. We also smashed them in the CT.

WhenSultansBowled said:
Mohammad Amir
Junaid Khan
Rumman Raees

Hassan Ali

Shadab Khan
Imad Wasim
Mohammad Hafeez
Shoaib Malik

This is a very versatile attack. But let's wait for them to perform against different oppositions outside UAE before claiming that they're the best.

That said, winning CT is a great accomplishment.
Click to expand...

They have already performed outside of the UAE.
 
New Yorker said:
The idea that a varied attack is a good attack has been the bane of PCB selection policy for years. For years people thought Pace (Riaz), Height (Irfan), was 2/3s of a world beating unit.

Truth is we don't yet have is a truly world class strike spinner a la Ajmal or Tahir or one of the Indian bowlers who seem to rotate in and out of that role. In that respect SAF looks a better rounded bowling unit, as does Indias. The secret is not variety but quality. We have some good, skilled bowlers now. Hasan, Amir when he's in a big tourney; now both Rumman and Junaid are proving more than handy.

Let's not forget this kessin, and keep rewarding domestic talent that proves itself with results, not would-be hopefuls who show "potential" a la Rahat. We don't need some random quasi phast spray gun to round out this tight disciplined unit. We need more quality.
Click to expand...

You've taken my post the exact oppposite way.

I meant quality with variety which is even better.

I remember reading a Cricinfo article about Pakistan's 3 left-armers (Amir, Wahab, Irfan) all with different pros and cons. Maybe you're connecting my post with that article.
 
Pakistan always bowls well as a unit regardless of individual quality of a bowler. This culture is there because their batting has been sucking for a long time. So to offset bowling unit are always ready to raise their game. Eventually Ranking will tell.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lowest totals Pakistan has bowled out the opposition for in ODIs:<br>64 versus New Zealand in 1986<br>67 versus Zimbabwe today<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ZIMvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ZIMvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1019513869256085509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Not the best bowling attack, but the best depth.

I rate Hazlewood, Cummins, Starc, Zampa, Stanlake as the best in the world. When all of them play together, nobody can score over 275 against them.
 
troodon said:
Not the best bowling attack, but the best depth.

I rate Hazlewood, Cummins, Starc, Zampa, Stanlake as the best in the world. When all of them play together, nobody can score over 275 against them.
Click to expand...

Even Pakistan scored 300 against them :))
 
Not on a per player basis, but collectively, under Sarfraz' leadership, it is an efficient bowling outfit,
which seems to do better than one would expect it to, unless bowling in NZ these days.

Beyond Australia, which is obviously formidable if at full strength, people are under estimating Nz,
Boult and Henry as good as or better than any Pakistani bowler; Henry has ridiculous numbers since
his debut in 2014; for India, Bumrah plus someone like Shami plus Yadav and Chahal are a great
outfit, very well rounded; SAF are not as great in ODIs as one would expect, though they can plausibly
field both Rabada and Steyn, but have pedigree plenty...Pakistan is still missing a really incisive spin bowling match winner, Shadab seems content to take 1-2 wickets a match...
 
troodon said:
Not the best bowling attack, but the best depth.

I rate Hazlewood, Cummins, Starc, Zampa, Stanlake as the best in the world. When all of them play together, nobody can score over 275 against them.
Click to expand...

Just a hyperbole. Eng smashed aus in aus and in ct
 
Sam99 said:
I hope you know what bump means. This isn't like few months or year old thread to bump.
Click to expand...

Thread was created in October.

Coming back on topic, I would say it's certainly up there but in order to be the best attack in the world, they still have to prove themselves vs. better opposition.

Yasir Shah should not be a part of our LOI squad. Need to get Zafar Gohar in, a better bowler in ODI cricket. Properly spins the ball, isn't a darter.

An attack of Amir (when firing/feels like showing up), Hasan Ali, Junaid/Usman, Faheem, Shadab, and Gohar would be up there...Hafeez is an option. Play any combination of the above attack depending on conditions...if dry conditions play 2 spinners and if not play 1.

We still have Ruman Raees on the bench. Also, Shaheen Shah Afridi and Muhammad Musa hopefully will develop into world class bowlers.
 
Pakistan missing world class spinner like saeed ajmal. Our spin attack was better in the recent past campare with our current spin attack.
 
Sam99 said:
I hope you know what bump means. This isn't like few months or year old thread to bump.
Click to expand...

It was made October lol. Why is this topic discussed after dismissing a Zimbabwe 2nd XI for a low score ? This attack has a lot to prove against the top teams.
 
Sharing some recent numbers (since Jan 2018, non-minnows), sorted by average.

[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Team[/td]
[td]Matches[/td]
[td]Wickets[/td]
[td]Avg[/td]
[td]Eco[/td]
[td]Sr[/td]
[td]4w[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Bangladesh[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]92[/td]
[td]27.84[/td]
[td]4.53[/td]
[td]36.8[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]India[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]163[/td]
[td]29.11[/td]
[td]5.05[/td]
[td]34.5[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]New Zealand[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]121[/td]
[td]31.76[/td]
[td]5.47[/td]
[td]34.8[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]England[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]158[/td]
[td]34.56[/td]
[td]5.51[/td]
[td]37.5[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Sri Lanka[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[td]106[/td]
[td]34.87[/td]
[td]5.95[/td]
[td]35.1[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[/tr][tr]
[td]South Africa[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]97[/td]
[td]37.51[/td]
[td]5.57[/td]
[td]40.3[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Australia[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]100[/td]
[td]43.23[/td]
[td]5.75[/td]
[td]45[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Pakistan[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]43.98[/td]
[td]5.34[/td]
[td]49.3[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]West Indies[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]52[/td]
[td]54.48[/td]
[td]5.92[/td]
[td]55.1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
Last edited:
Shocking to see the greatest bowling nations WI, Pakistan, Australia and SA languishing at the bottom.
 
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