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Pakistan pacers - Faheem Ashraf now the quickest?

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Saj

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It was interesting to see in the 1st T20I against Australia that Faheem Ashraf has now become the quickest Pakistani pacer and was recording the highest speeds, ahead of the likes of Hasan Ali and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

Whereas some of the Pakistani pacers speeds have reduced in recent times, it seems that Faheem is going the other way and is gaining pace.

He started his international career as a bowler who was just above medium pace but he seems to be really bending his back and hitting 145kph and more.
 
So surprising, used to be a 135kph bowler.

Maybe this is why his batting is suffering.
 
Improved alot as a bowler the plus point is that he's continuously taking wickets ( No tailenders ) Which is why I don't think team management should replace him for his batting, he is doing his job by taking wickets, which our main bowler couldn't have done before. I mean whats the point of being with a phast 150+ km bowler or a baray match ka bowler when they're not able to take wickets.
 
Bullet Drive said:
So surprising, used to be a 135kph bowler.

Maybe this is why his batting is suffering.
Click to expand...

Yes I remember when I first saw him at the Champions Trophy, he was around 135kph.

Regarding his batting, he's trying to hit every ball out the park - needs to play a few deliveries normally, before going for the big shots.
 
faheeemspeed.jpg

Faheem's highest speed was under 140k and he had the slowest (fastest) ball amongst the pacers. Yai 145 kph and more kahaan sai aa gaya? :hasan:13:
 
Have you even checked before making this thread? He didn't even crossed 140 Kph
 
Believe it or not but he is one of Pakistan’s best new ball bowlers nowadays. Most of the pacers prefer the older cherry
 
Amir and Hasan are still our fastest bowlers when they turn it on. I don't believe Faheem is capable of hitting 145kph just yet but he is still a good bowler in his own right.
 
Faheem’s bowling has come on in leaps and bounds this last year.

He’s now a genuine Test fourth seamer.
 
gazza619 said:
I think Shaheen is quicker if fully fit
Click to expand...

A lot quicker - Faheem is still a trundler make no mistake about it.

Put them in whites with a red ball and you'll see a 10 km/h average difference.
 
Square Drive said:
But but but according to a certain PP expert he's not even a cricketer :)))
Click to expand...
Faheem and Shadab are a perfect pair of fourth and fifth bowler all-rounders outside Asia.

And if Amir recovers his mojo he is a great third bowler batting at 9.

Which allows the team to carry Abbas and Shaheen Shah Afridi as opening bowlers who can’t bat.

It’s a terrific bowling unit which can also reliably score 100 runs per innings.
 
I also noticed Fahim is getting good off the wicket speed from his relatively shorter height on these dead surface. May be, may be at Centurion & J’burg PAK can think of playing Fahim as 4th pacer; but that should cost Hasan’s spot. Triple A must play all 3 Tests, and Yasir at Cape Town; but other 2 Tests, probably Haris (&/or Saud) should be the lead spinner. They’ll definitely be more economical than Shadab & might get one or two breakthroughs as well.
 
Junaids said:
Faheem and Shadab are a perfect pair of fourth and fifth bowler all-rounders outside Asia.

And if Amir recovers his mojo he is a great third bowler batting at 9.

Which allows the team to carry Abbas and Shaheen Shah Afridi as opening bowlers who can’t bat.

It’s a terrific bowling unit which can also reliably score 100 runs per innings.
Click to expand...

I agree. As does every other individual that has some level of sanity/shame.
 
Square Drive said:
But but but according to a certain PP expert he's not even a cricketer :)))
Click to expand...

Faheem is a good bowler but his batting is still a WIP, especially in shorter formats. Lots of people raised concerns about his credentials as an all-rounder as one cannot be termed as one with an average of 14 and 9 in ODI & T20.
 
MMHS said:
I also noticed Fahim is getting good off the wicket speed from his relatively shorter height on these dead surface. May be, may be at Centurion & J’burg PAK can think of playing Fahim as 4th pacer; but that should cost Hasan’s spot. Triple A must play all 3 Tests, and Yasir at Cape Town; but other 2 Tests, probably Haris (&/or Saud) should be the lead spinner. They’ll definitely be more economical than Shadab & might get one or two breakthroughs as well.
Click to expand...
On the High Veldt at Johannesburg And Centurion I would go with

Abbas batting at 11
Shaheen Shah batting at 10 (for the pacy, bouncy break-your-Hand Mitchell Johnson effect)
Amir at 9.
Faheem at 8.
Shadab at 7.

At Cape Town, where spin can have an influence, I’d introduce Yasir Shah for Shadab if Shadab was ineffective at altitude in the first two Tests.
 
Junaids said:
On the High Veldt at Johannesburg And Centurion I would go with

Abbas batting at 11
Shaheen Shah batting at 10 (for the pacy, bouncy break-your-Hand Mitchell Johnson effect)
Amir at 9.
Faheem at 8.
Shadab at 7.

At Cape Town, where spin can have an influence, I’d introduce Yasir Shah for Shadab if Shadab was ineffective at altitude in the first two Tests.
Click to expand...

Triple A means Abbas, Amir & Afridi - so, at least for once we have agreed on something regarding team combination.

I don't disagree on your thought process, problem is you often over estimate the capability of young PAK players - Boss, this in not 80s/90s - as a boy, I also used to get surprised, how they can pluck someone from thin air almost every series like a magic and that newcomer looking like million dollar baby. These days, PAK youngsters scores lot more in PakPassion rather than in cricket field - and these days, they call 35 years old middle aged man "youngsta buti". These Nawaz, Shadab, Fahim ... are not Tauseef, Mushtaq or Abdur Razzak .... let alone Wasim, Waquar, Qadir, Saqlin, Inzi or Saeed - control your emotion.

Shadab came with outstanding potential - but went exactly the route prohibited for him (No, I am not telling about T20 only). Didn't develop on leg-spin, neither batting enough to make it as specialist bat - now he is heading towards V2.0 of .... no not Afridi; Lala of 1998-2013, would be the MVP of this team in 3 formats. I don't know, if you are aware of Mansoor Amjad - guy was turning miles in 2004 U19 WC & I saw him from VIP stand at Old Dhaka stadium, then won couple of games with bat as well - now he is probably trying to make some Regional team at the age when he should have been at his prime. I am sure, our memory of Usman Qadir is it still fresh........

Had Shadab been really tight, I still would have given him a BoD on potential. But, he simply has lost the bowling plot - will go for plenty, and in low scoring Tests, you simply can't buy couple of wickets. You don't pick such spinner whom you can't back to give control on Run Rate - in that case bigger damage will be that Abbas or Amir will be bowling to contain scoring rate. In his last 2 Tests against ENG (for once, I hope at least you won't bring IRL Test here); in 2nd innings PAK bowled 82 & 106 overs - his figures were 19-2-63-2 & 17-2-50-1 (add 6-0-34-0 in 1st innings at Lord's), this is simply not what you can get away with from your leading spinner in AUS/SAF. These are not UAE that 3.25 RR means batsmen are racing - one bad session can leak 150, and the Test ends there. Moreover, since ENG tour, my feeling is, he has declined considerably.

It's romantic to think a Leggi bowling on foot marks with 350 to defend in 4th innings - but it won't happen. PAK won't post enough for any spinner to come into play on 4th innings - in fact, I won't suggest to bat first if wickets are like IND series - Amir might come into bat before lunch. It has to be strike by pacers and to keep them fresh ( & manage over rate), you'll need one spinner or a very tight medium pacer to bowl accurate 35 overs at least. At present, I don't see anyone but Yasir as spinner, therefore I won't pick any spinner for 1st & 3rd Test. That tight darting job Haris can do well.

Another theory I have to reject - bottom half very rare cases can recover when new ball is still moving & top 2 pacers are tiered - for that, you need to reach at least 35 minutes after lunch with 5, max 6 down, and one set top order has to be there as well. The batting line-up you are suggesting ends with Sarfraz at 6, then Shadab, Fahim, Amir, Afridi, Abbas ....... Last time Styen & co got PAK 7 down before lunch @ J'burg, it ended at 49 - that too on 2nd morning. Had SAF enforced follow-on, Test won't have seen 3rd morning.

If I am to take a chance, I'll take it with Abbas's durability, and Haris keeping things tight at one end.

Imam
Azhar
Haris
Asad
Babar
FZ
Sarfraz
Hasan
Amir
Afridi
Abbas

This was my XI for 1st & 3rd Test, with Haris, Azhar & FZ bowling few overs. But, may be Fahim can replace Hasan as the work horse.

For Cape Town, drop Fahim/Hasan for Yasir. If Shadab is to play, he has to make it as batsman, which I don't think he is good enough.
 
Saj said:
Yes I remember when I first saw him at the Champions Trophy, he was around 135kph.

Regarding his batting, he's trying to hit every ball out the park - needs to play a few deliveries normally, before going for the big shots.
Click to expand...

To be fair he is coming in with not many overs left and people behind him who can bat. So I am happy he is playing for the team.
He needs a few promotions in Odis to really settle as a loi bat
 
MMHS said:
Triple A means Abbas, Amir & Afridi - so, at least for once we have agreed on something regarding team combination.

I don't disagree on your thought process, problem is you often over estimate the capability of young PAK players - Boss, this in not 80s/90s - as a boy, I also used to get surprised, how they can pluck someone from thin air almost every series like a magic and that newcomer looking like million dollar baby. These days, PAK youngsters scores lot more in PakPassion rather than in cricket field - and these days, they call 35 years old middle aged man "youngsta buti". These Nawaz, Shadab, Fahim ... are not Tauseef, Mushtaq or Abdur Razzak .... let alone Wasim, Waquar, Qadir, Saqlin, Inzi or Saeed - control your emotion.

Shadab came with outstanding potential - but went exactly the route prohibited for him (No, I am not telling about T20 only). Didn't develop on leg-spin, neither batting enough to make it as specialist bat - now he is heading towards V2.0 of .... no not Afridi; Lala of 1998-2013, would be the MVP of this team in 3 formats. I don't know, if you are aware of Mansoor Amjad - guy was turning miles in 2004 U19 WC & I saw him from VIP stand at Old Dhaka stadium, then won couple of games with bat as well - now he is probably trying to make some Regional team at the age when he should have been at his prime. I am sure, our memory of Usman Qadir is it still fresh........

Had Shadab been really tight, I still would have given him a BoD on potential. But, he simply has lost the bowling plot - will go for plenty, and in low scoring Tests, you simply can't buy couple of wickets. You don't pick such spinner whom you can't back to give control on Run Rate - in that case bigger damage will be that Abbas or Amir will be bowling to contain scoring rate. In his last 2 Tests against ENG (for once, I hope at least you won't bring IRL Test here); in 2nd innings PAK bowled 82 & 106 overs - his figures were 19-2-63-2 & 17-2-50-1 (add 6-0-34-0 in 1st innings at Lord's), this is simply not what you can get away with from your leading spinner in AUS/SAF. These are not UAE that 3.25 RR means batsmen are racing - one bad session can leak 150, and the Test ends there. Moreover, since ENG tour, my feeling is, he has declined considerably.

It's romantic to think a Leggi bowling on foot marks with 350 to defend in 4th innings - but it won't happen. PAK won't post enough for any spinner to come into play on 4th innings - in fact, I won't suggest to bat first if wickets are like IND series - Amir might come into bat before lunch. It has to be strike by pacers and to keep them fresh ( & manage over rate), you'll need one spinner or a very tight medium pacer to bowl accurate 35 overs at least. At present, I don't see anyone but Yasir as spinner, therefore I won't pick any spinner for 1st & 3rd Test. That tight darting job Haris can do well.

Another theory I have to reject - bottom half very rare cases can recover when new ball is still moving & top 2 pacers are tiered - for that, you need to reach at least 35 minutes after lunch with 5, max 6 down, and one set top order has to be there as well. The batting line-up you are suggesting ends with Sarfraz at 6, then Shadab, Fahim, Amir, Afridi, Abbas ....... Last time Styen & co got PAK 7 down before lunch @ J'burg, it ended at 49 - that too on 2nd morning. Had SAF enforced follow-on, Test won't have seen 3rd morning.

If I am to take a chance, I'll take it with Abbas's durability, and Haris keeping things tight at one end.

Imam
Azhar
Haris
Asad
Babar
FZ
Sarfraz
Hasan
Amir
Afridi
Abbas

This was my XI for 1st & 3rd Test, with Haris, Azhar & FZ bowling few overs. But, may be Fahim can replace Hasan as the work horse.

For Cape Town, drop Fahim/Hasan for Yasir. If Shadab is to play, he has to make it as batsman, which I don't think he is good enough.
Click to expand...

A very solid post indeed.
 
MMHS said:
Triple A means Abbas, Amir & Afridi - so, at least for once we have agreed on something regarding team combination.

I don't disagree on your thought process, problem is you often over estimate the capability of young PAK players - Boss, this in not 80s/90s - as a boy, I also used to get surprised, how they can pluck someone from thin air almost every series like a magic and that newcomer looking like million dollar baby. These days, PAK youngsters scores lot more in PakPassion rather than in cricket field - and these days, they call 35 years old middle aged man "youngsta buti". These Nawaz, Shadab, Fahim ... are not Tauseef, Mushtaq or Abdur Razzak .... let alone Wasim, Waquar, Qadir, Saqlin, Inzi or Saeed - control your emotion.

Shadab came with outstanding potential - but went exactly the route prohibited for him (No, I am not telling about T20 only). Didn't develop on leg-spin, neither batting enough to make it as specialist bat - now he is heading towards V2.0 of .... no not Afridi; Lala of 1998-2013, would be the MVP of this team in 3 formats. I don't know, if you are aware of Mansoor Amjad - guy was turning miles in 2004 U19 WC & I saw him from VIP stand at Old Dhaka stadium, then won couple of games with bat as well - now he is probably trying to make some Regional team at the age when he should have been at his prime. I am sure, our memory of Usman Qadir is it still fresh........

Had Shadab been really tight, I still would have given him a BoD on potential. But, he simply has lost the bowling plot - will go for plenty, and in low scoring Tests, you simply can't buy couple of wickets. You don't pick such spinner whom you can't back to give control on Run Rate - in that case bigger damage will be that Abbas or Amir will be bowling to contain scoring rate. In his last 2 Tests against ENG (for once, I hope at least you won't bring IRL Test here); in 2nd innings PAK bowled 82 & 106 overs - his figures were 19-2-63-2 & 17-2-50-1 (add 6-0-34-0 in 1st innings at Lord's), this is simply not what you can get away with from your leading spinner in AUS/SAF. These are not UAE that 3.25 RR means batsmen are racing - one bad session can leak 150, and the Test ends there. Moreover, since ENG tour, my feeling is, he has declined considerably.

It's romantic to think a Leggi bowling on foot marks with 350 to defend in 4th innings - but it won't happen. PAK won't post enough for any spinner to come into play on 4th innings - in fact, I won't suggest to bat first if wickets are like IND series - Amir might come into bat before lunch. It has to be strike by pacers and to keep them fresh ( & manage over rate), you'll need one spinner or a very tight medium pacer to bowl accurate 35 overs at least. At present, I don't see anyone but Yasir as spinner, therefore I won't pick any spinner for 1st & 3rd Test. That tight darting job Haris can do well.

Another theory I have to reject - bottom half very rare cases can recover when new ball is still moving & top 2 pacers are tiered - for that, you need to reach at least 35 minutes after lunch with 5, max 6 down, and one set top order has to be there as well. The batting line-up you are suggesting ends with Sarfraz at 6, then Shadab, Fahim, Amir, Afridi, Abbas ....... Last time Styen & co got PAK 7 down before lunch @ J'burg, it ended at 49 - that too on 2nd morning. Had SAF enforced follow-on, Test won't have seen 3rd morning.

If I am to take a chance, I'll take it with Abbas's durability, and Haris keeping things tight at one end.

Imam
Azhar
Haris
Asad
Babar
FZ
Sarfraz
Hasan
Amir
Afridi
Abbas

This was my XI for 1st & 3rd Test, with Haris, Azhar & FZ bowling few overs. But, may be Fahim can replace Hasan as the work horse.

For Cape Town, drop Fahim/Hasan for Yasir. If Shadab is to play, he has to make it as batsman, which I don't think he is good enough.
Click to expand...

Superb post, agreed on every front. Shadab had a cracking first year but his bowling is being found out. His control needs to improve and must reduce reliance on the googly. He needs to nail that stock delivery and he'll only do that by bowling long spells in domestic FC cricket.

He has the potential to be an excellent allround cricketer, he scored three fifties in tricky UK/IRL conditions, but he is not ready to be our lone spinner outside Asia with only 8 domestic FC matches under his belt. Even the Leicestershire batsmen in the warmup before the ENG Tests said they were picking him easily.

The other reason why I disagree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] XI is because I don't trust Sarfraz to bat at 6 in South Africa.

As for the Cape Town Test - I don't think it's a done deal that Yasir is to be our lead spinner. He was neutralised by the AUS top six and was mainly picking up tailend wickets. Whether he goes to SAF depends on this NZ series IMO.
 
Any bowler that has the ability to bring the ball back in, pitch on off and hit off stump on multiple occasions is special.
 
This is not a thread to discuss Shadab, but I'm amazed by a couple of posts here.
The lad is absolutely brilliant for his age and certainly needs to be persisted with for the long term.

A leg spinner who is only 18 on debut and 19 now is about 8-9 years away from his peak and can only get better by playing and learning at the top level.
 
MMHS said:
I also noticed Fahim is getting good off the wicket speed from his relatively shorter height on these dead surface. May be, may be at Centurion & J’burg PAK can think of playing Fahim as 4th pacer; but that should cost Hasan’s spot. Triple A must play all 3 Tests, and Yasir at Cape Town; but other 2 Tests, probably Haris (&/or Saud) should be the lead spinner. They’ll definitely be more economical than Shadab & might get one or two breakthroughs as well.
Click to expand...

You mean Abbas, Amir, Afridi?? - I don't think Pakistan is planning to launch Afridi in test before WC, Although SA is good place, he can be lethal there...

Faheem and Shadab are no brainer in Western tests, if Pakistan is serious about winning...Between Amir, Afridi, Hassan, I would pick Amir and Afridi any day, any where for test cricket...
 
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