Pakistan tour of South Africa: A series loss which doesn’t hurt

[Attiq_Lone]

The Pakistan Tour of South Africa finally came to an end, We’ve lost in all three formats but it is something that doesn’t hurt much. We have seen some brilliant individual performances which give us hope for the future and especially for the world cup.

The Man of the tour has to be Babar Azam. He has batted at another level, and surely it is a very good sign for the world cup. Imam ul Haq has been brilliant as well, which means that the Top order is in good hands (at least in ODIs).

If You look at the bowling, there was not much to cheer about apart Shaheen, who has performed pretty well in his first tour of South Africa. An 18 Years old with the right attitude. Shadab is still your match winner and Imad is in brilliant form as an all rounder.

The main area of concern has been the middle order, which lacks consistency, Hafeez has been brilliant in the ODI series, but surely we must include a couple of young middle order batsmen in the squad before the world cup.

Asif, Talat and Faheem are the disappointments of the tour. We have invested a lot in Faheem but the payback has been poor, the same for Asif. I cannot say much about Talat, because he is still young and is still learning, You cannot drop someone after 2 or 3 matches, He has actually shown the capability to score, He can be a good no.4 Batsman for the ODI team.

For me it was a positive tour, and I am quite happy the way our boys played, We could have won, but I am sure the boys will learn, and hopefully give us a better show in the upcoming series and the world cup. They have all the potential to lift the trophy in England later this year.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

The Pakistan Tour of South Africa finally came to an end, We’ve lost in all three formats but it is something that doesn’t hurt much. We have seen some brilliant individual performances which give us hope for the future and especially for the world cup.

The Man of the tour has to be Babar Azam. He has batted at another level, and surely it is a very good sign for the world cup. Imam ul Haq has been brilliant as well, which means that the Top order is in good hands (at least in ODIs).

If You look at the bowling, there was not much to cheer about apart Shaheen, who has performed pretty well in his first tour of South Africa. An 18 Years old with the right attitude. Shadab is still your match winner and Imad is in brilliant form as an all rounder.

The main area of concern has been the middle order, which lacks consistency, Hafeez has been brilliant in the ODI series, but surely we must include a couple of young middle order batsmen in the squad before the world cup.

Asif, Talat and Faheem are the disappointments of the tour. We have invested a lot in Faheem but the payback has been poor, the same for Asif. I cannot say much about Talat, because he is still young and is still learning, You cannot drop someone after 2 or 3 matches, He has actually shown the capability to score, He can be a good no.4 Batsman for the ODI team.

For me it was a positive tour, and I am quite happy the way our boys played, We could have won, but I am sure the boys will learn, and hopefully give us a better show in the upcoming series and the world cup. They have all the potential to lift the trophy in England later this year.

And how can I forget Shan Masood? Shan Masood, another player which could be easily used as an opener in ODIs replacing Fakhar, If even Shan fails then we’re screwed

 

[Markhor]

The Centurion Test and the outcome of the ODI series having had the opportunities to win it leaves a bitter taste.

I suppose it'll be a learning experience for the youngsters. If anything they were the biggest positives whilst seniors like Azhar, Shafiq, Amir (in ODI series), Sarfraz and Malik were the biggest letdowns.

 

[warcry]

cannot say the same about Talat?
TALAT???
you should have stopped writing after that.

there is one thing worse than getting out in a t20 and that is wasting deliveries and THEN getting out.
Talat is a waste of space, not even a fringe player.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'm sorry, but there's no moral victory here.

Worse performance than the 2013 tour where we had a much inferior team.

How can you not be hurt? What are we, minnows? Why finding moral victories?

 

[Attiq_Lone]

The Centurion Test and the outcome of the ODI series having had the opportunities to win it leaves a bitter taste.

I suppose it'll be a learning experience for the youngsters. If anything they were the biggest positives whilst seniors like Azhar, Shafiq, Amir (in ODI series), Sarfraz and Malik were the biggest letdowns.

I wasn’t expecting much from the seniors if I am honest, Shafiq and Azhar have been out of touch for a long time now, and there was no way they could have done better on the bouncy pitches of SA against a world class bowling attack.

I was also not expecting much from Malik as he has never done much in overseas tours, I wasn’t expecting anything from Hafeez but he surprised me actually, he played really well.

Sarfraz was really a let down, as captain all of us were expecting some more responsibility, but He couldn’t absorbe the pressure of performance and media I suppose, hopefully the reassurance from PCB and a good PSL will boost his confidence and performance.

 

[Abdullah]

Yes mixed feelings about this tour. Some good moments and some not so good.
I think the cricket loving saffers would have enjoyed watching us play which is nice.
And we didn't just roll over the most part

 

[rhony]

You a fan of Fakhar Zaman??

 

[Attiq_Lone]

You a fan of Fakhar Zaman??

Nope, better not mentioning him, He has been a disaster.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

cannot say the same about Talat?
TALAT???
you should have stopped writing after that.

there is one thing worse than getting out in a t20 and that is wasting deliveries and THEN getting out.
Talat is a waste of space, not even a fringe player.

Well Yeah, but picking just on him is not the way to go, at the end of the day you play as a team, you don’t rely on a youngster this way. It was probably the first time he was in such a pressure situation against a very good side.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I'm sorry, but there's no moral victory here.

Worse performance than the 2013 tour where we had a much inferior team.

How can you not be hurt? What are we, minnows? Why finding moral victories?

What? How is a team of Younis, Misbah and Ajmal inferior to the current team?

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I'm sorry, but there's no moral victory here.

Worse performance than the 2013 tour where we had a much inferior team.

How can you not be hurt? What are we, minnows? Why finding moral victories?

We are not minnows, but we are a side with many youngsters that are grooming well, losses like these, are a great learning curve for our youngsters. I can’t say much about the tests, but LOIs were well fought, so I am really happy about that.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Yes mixed feelings about this tour. Some good moments and some not so good.
I think the cricket loving saffers would have enjoyed watching us play which is nice.
And we didn't just roll over the most part

We could have won, but at least there was some fight, which is always a good sign

 

[Attiq_Lone]

What? How is a team of Younis, Misbah and Ajmal inferior to the current team?

Apart Hafeez and Malik or Saidi, we do not have players that have played over 100 ODIs, they are still learning. On a skill level this team is far superior than the one in 2013, He is right, but experience wise it isn’t.

 

[todfod 11]

Yeah same here.. its been a mixed feeling. Even though Pakistan played well in ODI and came close to wining the first test. T20s were very close but i feel like team selection has been very poor.
I m done with Faheem Ashraf he needs to be kicked out and same with shoaib Malik his career is done. Dahn Masood not getting a chance in ODI team was shocking.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Yeah same here.. its been a mixed feeling. Even though Pakistan played well in ODI and came close to wining the first test. T20s were very close but i feel like team selection has been very poor.
I m done with Faheem Ashraf he needs to be kicked out and same with shoaib Malik his career is done. Dahn Masood not getting a chance in ODI team was shocking.

You still have to tolerate Malik and Hafeez for few more months, after the world cup they will retire. Shan Masood not getting a single chance and a tuller like Fakhar getting chance after chance means only one thing: Fakhar will be your main opener in the World Cup

 

[Usman Chadda]

Apart Hafeez and Malik or Saidi, we do not have players that have played over 100 ODIs, they are still learning. On a skill level this team is far superior than the one in 2013, He is right, but experience wise it isn’t.

Ajmal, Gul, Younis and Misbah were better skill wise. It's not even debatable.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Ajmal, Gul, Younis and Misbah were better skill wise. It's not even debatable.

I am talking about ODIs, we used to be at 10/4 scores, our batting has been way better, we had to tolerate the Tuk Tuk of Misbah to save us.

Obviously we are a nothing side in Test as compared to the Mis-You era. We ve got some soft character seniors in the team.

 

[BaankeJi]

I am surprised that it doesn't hurt. come to think of it, only results that could be worse is being whitewashed in one more format or in all 3 formats.

 

[Square Drive]

We are moving in the right direction.

 

[Square Drive]

Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfraz (Tests mainly), Malik (ODIs), Faheem (ODIs mainly), Asif, Amir (ODIs) --> need to move on from these players, which we probably will in due course.

And then we'll only get better.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I am surprised that it doesn't hurt. come to think of it, only results that could be worse is being whitewashed in one more format or in all 3 formats.

Be honest, a whitewash in the test series was expected, considering the amount of young players we have, our soft seniors and the South African conditions. We ve still shown some fight in some sessions, I am hopeful that they will learn from this experience.

Comint to the ODI series, it was a good fight, We have actually played better in first four matches and only the D/L method penalised us. Only the last match was very poor.

T20 series could have been ours, but the flaws in the middle order are evident. So with all this, I would take the positives that our youngsters have been exposed to tough conditions and somehow gave us good signals about the future, and I am really happy about that.

 

[mastersaan10]

We fans keep taking positives from the losses and think the team will do better next btimr as certain players will not be there but the second thing happens again. Pakistan cricket is losing its charm honestly, and it has nothing to do with losing or winning. There are very few likeable players in this team and I actually like more Indian players at this point bc of their attitude and spirit.
Still this series was alot better than I expected. I was thinking of complete whitewash but Masood and babar actually gave a fight. Masood is batsmen of test series for me as he was playing against the new ball and actually looked comfortable to pull and cut.

 

[MMHS]

Ajmal, Gul, Younis and Misbah were better skill wise. It's not even debatable.

Indeed. But they were playing against the best team that time under the best Captain around with a peak Amla, AbdV, Styen, Phillander, Faf & Morkel in it ... Jaques Kallis played couple of Test as well and debutante Abbot took 9 in one Test. This SAF side is not even a skeleton of that team and Sarfraz's PAK kept them on field for in total 9 days and a bit.

 

[Hyperion66]

No offence but it is ridiculous to declare Babar man of the tour for Pak, I get that Pakistan doesn't have much of a batting standard but still it is utterly ludicrous to hype a guy so much based on a few flashy fiftys, zero centuries and hardly any match winning knocks. He was comfortably outclassed and outperformed by Shan in tests and by Imam in ODI. Bilateral T20Is don't matter that much anyways.

 

[giri26]

Every series loss should hurt, close or not. Unless it does there will be no changes. If you are happy with a loss and being second that will become a habit by itself. Strong introspection needs to take place within the players and the team management as to how to go to the next level and convert these opportunities to victories.

This is not the first time, opportunities were missed in the home series against NZ as well in UAE before that against Australia in the first Test. Same mistakes were repeated in SA. How can you guys say you are not hurt? When you talk about induvidual performances, Babar Azam played well but where were the hundreds? except for the first Test where he played with the tail he had opportunities to convert them into big scores. Same thing happened in the ODI series as well.

Quoting your last point "For me it was a positive tour, and I am quite happy the way our boys played, We could have won". Tell me how many times have Pakistani fans thought of the same? Unless the players hurt after every loss or every time a player doesn't score a hundred after reaching pretty 50's, they will never go to the next level.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

No offence but it is ridiculous to declare Babar man of the tour for Pak, I get that Pakistan doesn't have much of a batting standard but still it is utterly ludicrous to hype a guy so much based on a few flashy fiftys, zero centuries and hardly any match winning knocks. He was comfortably outclassed and outperformed by Shan in tests and by Imam in ODI. Bilateral T20Is don't matter that much anyways.

He was playing with the tail in tests, I wouldn’t be expecting a hundred where wickets keep falling on the other hand.

A bit disappointed on the fact that he has not been able to convert good starts into big innings in ODIs, but He has looked a far superior batsman than others, the sound of the bat tells everything about the timing. The placement of the shots, and the shot selection has been good too. He didn’t score a century, but he has performed in all 3 formats. It was his first tour of SA, give these guys some room.

Then if you look at each format then yes, Shan has been a far superior batsman in tests, He was hooking and pulling better than any other Pakistani batsman at the top order. Imam has played some fighting knocks, has had few starts but failed to convert. He then performed way better in ODIs, and all we want is players learning from their previous mistakes, which he clearly did.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Every series loss should hurt, close or not. Unless it does there will be no changes. If you are happy with a loss and being second that will become a habit by itself. Strong introspection needs to take place within the players and the team management as to how to go to the next level and convert these opportunities to victories.

This is not the first time, opportunities were missed in the home series against NZ as well in UAE before that against Australia in the first Test. Same mistakes were repeated in SA. How can you guys say you are not hurt? When you talk about induvidual performances, Babar Azam played well but where were the hundreds? except for the first Test where he played with the tail he had opportunities to convert them into big scores. Same thing happened in the ODI series as well.

Quoting your last point "For me it was a positive tour, and I am quite happy the way our boys played, We could have won". Tell me how many times have Pakistani fans thought of the same? Unless the players hurt after every loss or every time a player doesn't score a hundred after reaching pretty 50's, they will never go to the next level.

I agree, but we also have to look at the fact that we were playing in alien conditions with a team that is still in transition phase, most of the players we have are still young and are learning.

We have been playing teams like Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka and the weaker West Indies, this was one of the first opportunity we had, to play against a good side, in their home conditions where they rarely loose (India 5-1). We still gave them good competition and played better cricket in the first 4 ODIs.

We should be criticising the board for organising series against teams like Zimbabwe, where your skills are not tested at all. What happens is that we get superstars for that particular series, and when these superstars don’t score runs where matters, it hurts. By playing teams like zimbabwe (no offence), we will only get soft players.

We do not tour SENA countries with our A team, we are touring South Africa after 5 or 6 years, considering all this, the series has been well fought by Pakistan.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The white-ball leg shouldnt hurt at all. Pakistan would've won the ODI series 3-2 if not for rain and in the T20 series scored more runs than SA did !!!

 

[BreadPakoda]

Agree. This series has reinstated the lost pride after the NZ loss. People will say SA had fielded weak team etc. but these are their conditions and even their second rung players are good here (eg. Olivier). Still white ball games were close and Pakistan had its moments in tests.

 

[moghul]

All you need to do is to lose all hopes from Pakistan team and take any minor partial success as a bonus and no loss will hurt you.

For me it was a disappointing and hurtful tour, not proud of our team.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

All you need to do is to lose all hopes from Pakistan team and take any minor partial success as a bonus and no loss will hurt you.

For me it was a disappointing and hurtful tour, not proud of our team.

This is the mindset I adopted back in 2011.
Made the 2017 CT win extra special lol.

 

[Hawkeye]

What? How is a team of Younis, Misbah and Ajmal inferior to the current team?

Chadda saab, you're mistaken there.

Younis, Misbah were great spin players but not better than the current lineup in SA.

And you're also conveniently forgetting how great the SA team at that time was! In fact, the greatest South African team in their history.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] summed it up quite well:


"But they were playing against the best team that time under the best Captain around with a peak Amla, AbdV, Styen, Phillander, Faf & Morkel in it ... Jaques Kallis played couple of Test as well and debutante Abbot took 9 in one Test. This SAF side is not even a skeleton of that team and Sarfraz's PAK kept them on field for in total 9 days and a bit."


We did far worse this time.

AND WE'RE CELEBRATING IT!!!

 

[shariqnoor]

Chadda saab, you're mistaken there.

Younis, Misbah were great spin players but not better than the current lineup in SA.

And you're also conveniently forgetting how great the SA team at that time was! In fact, the greatest South African team in their history.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] summed it up quite well:


"But they were playing against the best team that time under the best Captain around with a peak Amla, AbdV, Styen, Phillander, Faf & Morkel in it ... Jaques Kallis played couple of Test as well and debutante Abbot took 9 in one Test. This SAF side is not even a skeleton of that team and Sarfraz's PAK kept them on field for in total 9 days and a bit."


We did far worse this time.

AND WE'RE CELEBRATING IT!!!

Can't disagree with it. The 2013 team also lost 3-2 in the ODIs and that SA team was great.

However from the 2013 series we found nothing about our future. No talent came up and staked his claim for a long stay in the lineup. In this tour, we have seen Imam weather the likes of Steyn, Rabada, Tahir to give us hope that he could be the opener that would be the bedrock of this team for a long time. Babar Azam, although he had a decent tour, didn't really win matches for Pakistan but I believe he's made one small jump in his career and elevated his batting 1 notch. He's still far away from the likes of Kohli, Warner, Williamson but the trajectory is upwards. Quite often, batsmen from our country nosedive when playing in SA, Australia. Imad has comfortably shown himself to be the number 1 allrounder in this lineup.

Not saying that the tour needs to be celebrated. It's been a wretched tour but there have been some positives and we should not just brush them under the carpet.

 

[MMHS]

Chadda saab, you're mistaken there.

Younis, Misbah were great spin players but not better than the current lineup in SA.

And you're also conveniently forgetting how great the SA team at that time was! In fact, the greatest South African team in their history.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] summed it up quite well:


"But they were playing against the best team that time under the best Captain around with a peak Amla, AbdV, Styen, Phillander, Faf & Morkel in it ... Jaques Kallis played couple of Test as well and debutante Abbot took 9 in one Test. This SAF side is not even a skeleton of that team and Sarfraz's PAK kept them on field for in total 9 days and a bit."


We did far worse this time.

AND WE'RE CELEBRATING IT!!!

Only positive from this series is that PAK got few young players to invest - Shaheen, Imam, Shan ..... Also, this series can be a catalyst for Babar’s career..... May be Shadab & Imad as well. I used to give an example from that series - at J’burg, PAK played 4 spinners in an ODI, 3 of them offie .... and officially 9 players out of 11 over 30, 10th one 29 and 4 players over 35, led by a 40 years old Captain - that’s exactly 2 years before next WC!!!!

 

[Ab Fan]

If a series loss doesn't hurt you, that explains the benchmark of that team.

When India lost the test series in SA, many Indian fans were hurt as they felt they missed a great chance of winning a test series in Asia.