Pakistanis should stop giving respect to corrupt people

[srh]

Its clear that Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari are corrupt. But I continue to see Pakistanis giving them respect Looking at all the news you get this impression and it shows that most Pakistanis are not intelligent; dont they understand that these individuals have looted their money? These looters should be afraid of facing public and media but looks like they cherish the moment and nobody reminds them of their corruption. Has the line between good and bad evaporated in Pakistan?

 

[Savak]

The power of paisa! Can buy anything with it. If it fails, a bullet takes care of it. Explains the state of the country today. Ik is being to naive if he expected to deal with these crooks within the system, he should have dealt with them Musharraf style

 

[MenInG]

In Pakistan, corrupt is someone who doesnt benefit you.

 

[Bewal Express]

Its clear that Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari are corrupt. But I continue to see Pakistanis giving them respect Looking at all the news you get this impression and it shows that most Pakistanis are not intelligent; dont they understand that these individuals have looted their money? These looters should be afraid of facing public and media but looks like they cherish the moment and nobody reminds them of their corruption. Has the line between good and bad evaporated in Pakistan?

They have stolen from a poor country and some of those same poor are either too stupid or a beneficiaries of their Corruption. For me the worst people of all are the educated, who know perfectly well these people are evil but will find reasons to support them.

 

[WebGuru]

Those who respect them are "beneficiaries of their corruption and this corrupt system".

 

[Pete Rose]

To separate corruption from incompetence, what’s worse?
- PML or PPP siphoning off 2-10% off public funds or
- spending borrowed 15 billion dollars to inflate the exchange rate to minimize inflation without declining exports, an exploding debt to gdp ratio, and a guaranteed returns to power providers, that’s is not pegged to the price of fuel/

To be sure, it’s always very effective to run against corruption because it’s a visceral issue that the common man understands, but the reality of our mess is incompetence. That is far more difficult to explain in a sound bite

 

[King-Misbah]

To separate corruption from incompetence, what’s worse?
- PML or PPP siphoning off 2-10% off public funds or
- spending borrowed 15 billion dollars to inflate the exchange rate to minimize inflation without declining exports, an exploding debt to gdp ratio, and a guaranteed returns to power providers, that’s is not pegged to the price of fuel/

To be sure, it’s always very effective to run against corruption because it’s a visceral issue that the common man understands, but the reality of our mess is incompetence. That is far more difficult to explain in a sound bite

Worst in corruption and incompetence. PPP and PMLN fufilled both these criterias. More then that; they are anti Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

The only people who give respect to corruption are those at the receiving end of corruption.

 

[moghul]

In Pakistan, corrupt is someone who doesnt benefit you.

Exactly,

Similarly , even a drug dealer gets hero's welcome when he managed to come out of jail, thanks to drug money.

Thanks to Bhuttos, Zia and Sharifs, culture has changed in Pakistan, corruption is now considered smartness.

 

[Badsha]

To separate corruption from incompetence, what’s worse?
- PML or PPP siphoning off 2-10% off public funds or
- spending borrowed 15 billion dollars to inflate the exchange rate to minimize inflation without declining exports, an exploding debt to gdp ratio, and a guaranteed returns to power providers, that’s is not pegged to the price of fuel/

To be sure, it’s always very effective to run against corruption because it’s a visceral issue that the common man understands, but the reality of our mess is incompetence. That is far more difficult to explain in a sound bite

Even if what you say is true, corruption is worse. Incompetence can be fixed . Corruption breeds corruption

 

[Pete Rose]

Even if what you say is true, corruption is worse. Incompetence can be fixed . Corruption breeds corruption

The Great Leap Forward was rolled out by the incorruptible chairman Mao lead to the deaths of about 45 million and shrank the country’s GDP.

 

[Savak]

Lol at people who say the PPP and PML-N were corrupt but competent. The present government is facing a situation which no government in the history of Pakistan has faced before barring Musharraf to an extent.

 

[Sirris]

Lol at people who say the PPP and PML-N were corrupt but competent. The present government is facing a situation which no government in the history of Pakistan has faced before barring Musharraf to an extent.

Isn't that an oxymoron, to be corrupt and competent at the same time?

A competent person should by definition be able to get things done without the need to do unlawful things.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lol at people who say the PPP and PML-N were corrupt but competent. The present government is facing a situation which no government in the history of Pakistan has faced before barring Musharraf to an extent.

So what was their competency? Someone please tell, they have left a bankrupt country

 

[Savak]

Isn't that an oxymoron, to be corrupt and competent at the same time?

A competent person should by definition be able to get things done without the need to do unlawful things.

So what was their competency? Someone please tell, they have left a bankrupt country

Basically the Sharif's, Zardari's, Bhutto's, Saeen's, Noora's are desperately clutching at straws and trying to brainstorm the population about it being okay to be corrupt as long as you are apparently competent. The sooner IK adopts an iron fist approach to this Mafia, the better, by allowing and depending on the system to take care of them, he is being naive and is playing directly into their hands.

 

[srh]

A good example to compare is politician "Gordon Fox" of USA. He was member of Democratic party and was speaker of state assembly of "Rhode Island" state. He was corrupt. Once he was caught in corruption, his party kicked him out, he was forced to resign from speakership, was sentenced to jail, Rhode Island college took the honorary doctorate away from him as he lacks the core values of good character and he had no career in politics after finishing his sentence in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fox

Now compare this with the treatment of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari in Pakistan and you can see the day and light difference of how each nation is treating their corrupt politicians times millions

 

[Syed1]

A good example to compare is politician "Gordon Fox" of USA. He was member of Democratic party and was speaker of state assembly of "Rhode Island" state. He was corrupt. Once he was caught in corruption, his party kicked him out, he was forced to resign from speakership, was sentenced to jail, Rhode Island college took the honorary doctorate away from him as he lacks the core values of good character and he had no career in politics after finishing his sentence in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fox

Now compare this with the treatment of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari in Pakistan and you can see the day and light difference of how each nation is treating their corrupt politicians times millions

But but but chief economist, head surgeon and civil service aspirant Dr. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] told us that corruption is justified?


Surely the good doctor knows more than you and me and everyone else.

 

[Savak]

A good example to compare is politician "Gordon Fox" of USA. He was member of Democratic party and was speaker of state assembly of "Rhode Island" state. He was corrupt. Once he was caught in corruption, his party kicked him out, he was forced to resign from speakership, was sentenced to jail, Rhode Island college took the honorary doctorate away from him as he lacks the core values of good character and he had no career in politics after finishing his sentence in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fox

Now compare this with the treatment of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari in Pakistan and you can see the day and light difference of how each nation is treating their corrupt politicians times millions

This is actually a reflection of our nation. There was no need for the nation to go through the Panama drama, any PM or President of a Western Country would have tendered his resignation at the mere mention of his name being mentioned in the reports but here we had the leaders and a ruling party distributing mithai's when the SC announced the JIT as if they had won the case whereas it was just a simple ruling that the JIT was being set up to further examine the evidence against the PM where 2 judges ruled the PM should be disqualified and three 3 judges said lets examine further.

 

[giri26]

Is this advice only isolated to politicians?

 

[Mamoon]

Isn't that an oxymoron, to be corrupt and competent at the same time?

A competent person should by definition be able to get things done without the need to do unlawful things.

Ideally, you would want a competent and honest person, but it is definitely possible to be corrupt and competent at the same time. In fact, it is quite common in Pakistan bureaucracy.

These are the type of individuals who know how to get things done. They have the knowledge and the expertise, but they also feel that they are not getting enough reward and recognition for their work, so they put some of the funds in their own pocket because of entitlement.

I think they are still better than someone who is honest but also incompetent. If you cannot get things done, your honesty is good for nothing. Bureaucrats like them usually don’t climb up the ladder.

 

[Savak]

Ideally, you would want a competent and honest person, but it is definitely possible to be corrupt and competent at the same time. In fact, it is quite common in Pakistan bureaucracy.

These are the type of individuals who know how to get things done. They have the knowledge and the expertise, but they also feel that they are not getting enough reward and recognition for their work, so they put some of the funds in their own pocket because of entitlement.

I think they are still better than someone who is honest but also incompetent. If you cannot get things done, your honesty is good for nothing. Bureaucrats like them usually don’t climb up the ladder.

Pakistan's problem is too many corrupt and and incompetent, badniyat people

 

[LongHorn]

A good example to compare is politician "Gordon Fox" of USA. He was member of Democratic party and was speaker of state assembly of "Rhode Island" state. He was corrupt. Once he was caught in corruption, his party kicked him out, he was forced to resign from speakership, was sentenced to jail, Rhode Island college took the honorary doctorate away from him as he lacks the core values of good character and he had no career in politics after finishing his sentence in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fox

Now compare this with the treatment of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari in Pakistan and you can see the day and light difference of how each nation is treating their corrupt politicians times millions

I am not sure how familiar you are with the US system, but "corruption" is a very subjective term there, some acts of theft will see the book thrown at you, other very similar or larger acts of theft will be ignored as long as one can package it legally using the right terminology....

Now there are naïve Uncle types who think that "In Amrika, there is no corruption, politicians there love their country and are honest and simple people", but i'm sure you are not like that

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan's problem is too many corrupt and and incompetent, badniyat people

It is critical to distinguish between the corruption of the political elite and the corruption of the bureaucracy.

It is very easy for people with private jobs as well as overseas Pakistanis to talk about the corruption in our bureaucracy, but they are unaware of the ground realities.

They are paid peanuts considering the nature and importance of their work and the hard work, intelligence and dedication it takes to be where they are.

The disparity between public and private sector when it comes to salaries and benefits force civil servants to engage in corruption. When your basic salary is just about enough to meet your basic needs, what do you expect them to do?

The corruption in our bureaucracy is a systematic failure. As long as they are not paid enough, they will be forced to find illegal means. Many civil servants are honest in their first few years, but once reality hits them, they see the true picture.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is critical to distinguish between the corruption of the political elite and the corruption of the bureaucracy.

It is very easy for people with private jobs as well as overseas Pakistanis to talk about the corruption in our bureaucracy, but they are unaware of the ground realities.

They are paid peanuts considering the nature and importance of their work and the hard work, intelligence and dedication it takes to be where they are.

The disparity between public and private sector when it comes to salaries and benefits force civil servants to engage in corruption. When your basic salary is just about enough to meet your basic needs, what do you expect them to do?

The corruption in our bureaucracy is a systematic failure. As long as they are not paid enough, they will be forced to find illegal means. Many civil servants are honest in their first few years, but once reality hits them, they see the true picture.

Stop trying to justify corruption because it has benefited you.

 

[srh]

I am not sure how familiar you are with the US system, but "corruption" is a very subjective term there, some acts of theft will see the book thrown at you, other very similar or larger acts of theft will be ignored as long as one can package it legally using the right terminology....

Now there are naïve Uncle types who think that "In Amrika, there is no corruption, politicians there love their country and are honest and simple people", but i'm sure you are not like that

of course there is some corruption in West, but this thread is about what happens when a corrupt is caught;

In West when a corrupt is caught then his party disown him/her, kick him/her out of the party and take away all his/her privileges, the media hounds him/her, the public show antipathy towards him/her. But in Pakistan this is not happening and thats what I dont like.

 

[Savak]

It is critical to distinguish between the corruption of the political elite and the corruption of the bureaucracy.

It is very easy for people with private jobs as well as overseas Pakistanis to talk about the corruption in our bureaucracy, but they are unaware of the ground realities.

They are paid peanuts considering the nature and importance of their work and the hard work, intelligence and dedication it takes to be where they are.

The disparity between public and private sector when it comes to salaries and benefits force civil servants to engage in corruption. When your basic salary is just about enough to meet your basic needs, what do you expect them to do?

The corruption in our bureaucracy is a systematic failure. As long as they are not paid enough, they will be forced to find illegal means. Many civil servants are honest in their first few years, but once reality hits them, they see the true picture.

The Salaries in the Public Sector in the West in the lower to Middle tier is less compared to the Private Sector unless you get to the very top which is one in a thousand. But the lower salaries are compensated by the benefits of a govt job i.e. great work life balance, less stressful job culture, job security, benefits, pension plan. In Pakistan, when my mom retired from the govt, her pension is going to be a notch above her final paycheque at retirement which is not a bad deal at all considering people in the private sector get a pittance upon retirement. Besides govt employees get other benefits and sponsorships from the govt whereas private sector employees for the most part pay out of pocket for these things.

I agree a corruption free society is impossible, but what Pakistan really needs is cleaning at the top, punishing the big fish, retrieving the stolen wealth from them, everything else will fall into place then.

 

[Mamoon]

Stop trying to justify corruption because it has benefited you.

You obviously have no idea of the difficulties and challenges that civil servants face in Pakistan. Don’t pass judgments sitting in the UK.

 

[Mamoon]

The Salaries in the Public Sector in the West in the lower to Middle tier is less compared to the Private Sector unless you get to the very top which is one in a thousand. But the lower salaries are compensated by the benefits of a govt job i.e. great work life balance, less stressful job culture, job security, benefits, pension plan. In Pakistan, when my mom retired from the govt, her pension is going to be a notch above her final paycheque at retirement which is not a bad deal at all considering people in the private sector get a pittance upon retirement. Besides govt employees get other benefits and sponsorships from the govt whereas private sector employees for the most part pay out of pocket for these things.

I agree a corruption free society is impossible, but what Pakistan really needs is cleaning at the top, punishing the big fish, retrieving the stolen wealth from them, everything else will fall into place then.

None of that applies in Pakistan. Their is tremendous pressure and if you don’t obey your higher ups blindly, chances are that you will be relocated to some remote area.

Yes they have pension, but they also don’t have any savings by strictly relying on their salaries.

Also, the top brass still earns less. My father was the provincial head in FBR when he retired, and his salary was PKR 2 lac 50 thousand. Now compare that to the salary of a regional head in Telenor or Mobilink.

 

[Syed1]

None of that applies in Pakistan. Their is tremendous pressure and if you don’t obey your higher ups blindly, chances are that you will be relocated to some remote area.

Yes they have pension, but they also don’t have any savings by strictly relying on their salaries.

Also, the top brass still earns less. My father was the provincial head in FBR when he retired, and his salary was PKR 2 lac 50 thousand. Now compare that to the salary of a regional head in Telenor or Mobilink.

You are not counting the money made on the "side"

 

[coy0607]

corruption is deeply rooted in Pakistani's now, it will take generations for a recovery.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Just because an extremely corrupt person gets assassinated does not make them shaheed.