Pakistanis would support banning Afghans from entering Pakistan, so why do they find offense here?

[Major]

If afghanis were to be banned from entering pakistan, majority of pakiatan would support this. But when they themselves face a threat of being banned from entering US, why find offense in it?

 

[Slog]

well in my case i dont really have a problem with either

but your premise is fault

Pakistanis have a problem with illegal Afghans. Hence there is a difference

 

[Madplayer]

Its one country against another. Israel vs Pakistan? India vs Pakistan? Afghanistan vs Pakistan? Nobody should have a problem. Its the one country's government against another country's.

Its different when you single out one community based on their religion and discriminate against common people for no fault of theirs.

 

[Zahid87]

Its one country against another. Israel vs Pakistan? India vs Pakistan? Afghanistan vs Pakistan? Nobody should have a problem. Its the one country's government against another country's.

Its different when you single out one community based on their religion and discriminate against common people for no fault of theirs.

Discrimination of common people happens in any case when governments make decisions. What did the Afghan refugees do to suddenly get told to leave? The whole thing was designed to put pressure on an Afghan govt which has turned hostile towards Pak.

In Pak, you even had the general people buy the state propoganda that the Afghan refugees are the fault of all our ills of terrorism, and support the govt in pushing them to leave.

I would argue thats just as bad, if not worse than what is happening in the States right now. Its just that we hold the US to a different standard.

 

[Madplayer]

Discrimination of common people happens in any case when governments make decisions. What did the Afghan refugees do to suddenly get told to leave? The whole thing was designed to put pressure on an Afghan govt which has turned hostile towards Pak.

In Pak, you even had the general people buy the state propoganda that the Afghan refugees are the fault of all our ills of terrorism, and support the govt in pushing them to leave.

I would argue thats just as bad, if not worse than what is happening in the States right now. Its just that we hold the US to a different standard.

Its all depends on what bracket the decision falls under. Its Pakistan government vs a hostile turned Afghan government. Not Pakistan vs one of Pathans, hazaras or sikhs.

And have Pakistan officially banned Afghan refugees , legal and illegal alike? Genuine question because i haven't been able to follow this story properly.

 

[Zahid87]

Its all depends on what bracket the decision falls under. Its Pakistan government vs a hostile turned Afghan government. Not Pakistan vs one of Pathans, hazaras or sikhs.

And have Pakistan officially banned Afghan refugees , legal and illegal alike? Genuine question because i haven't been able to follow this story properly.

It is Pakistan Govt ridding the country of people which are deemed burdens on the state, people who 'hate' Pakistan, and are involved with the spreading of terrorism in the region. That is the way it was sold to the people, and these are pretty much the reason why people support it.

The poltics are designed for something else. But the people buy it for those reasons. How is that any different or better from certain sections of the US public supporting a ban on people from certain countries.

In many cases the Pakistan govt is forcing people out who have lived in Pakistan since birth, and have established lives and families on this side of the border. The people have let it happen, and in some cases appluaded the action taken by the govt.

http://www.dawn.com/in-depth/afghan-refugees/


Have a read of this feature by Dawn if you have time.

 

[Braveheart]

If afghanis were to be banned from entering pakistan, majority of pakiatan would support this. But when they themselves face a threat of being banned from entering US, why find offense in it?

In a Word:
H Y P O C R I S Y

However
If the USA actually has major problem with Radical Muslims entering the USA to commit terror, then they have not gone far enough in my opinion.
The tight restrictions should include Muslims from many other countries too.
Otherwise, it just stinks of token measures to satisfy the voters.

 

[enkidu_]

Vintage hypocrisy from the paindoos as usual. They'd say they "commit crimes" and are an "economic burden" (which of course is false, but what about Pakistanis in the UK ?), while the biggest economic criminals are the politicians for whom they vote fervently (the Zardaris and Sharifs have probably stolen from the Pak awaam more than all Afghan refugees put together could do in ten generations.)

 

[Mian]

Vintage hypocrisy from the paindoos as usual. They'd say they "commit crimes" and are an "economic burden" (which of course is false, but what about Pakistanis in the UK ?), while the biggest economic criminals are the politicians for whom they vote fervently (the Zardaris and Sharifs have probably stolen from the Pak awaam more than all Afghan refugees put together could do in ten generations.)

Post of the week but our awaam is too blind too see this and they will keep voting for these monsters while blaming everyone else for their problems instead of opening eyes. Sharifs and Zardari Bhuttos are the biggest criminals od Pakistan but we allow th3 criminals to rule!

 

[Zahid87]

In a Word:
H Y P O C R I S Y

However
If the USA actually has major problem with Radical Muslims entering the USA to commit terror, then they have not gone far enough in my opinion.
The tight restrictions should include Muslims from many other countries too.
Otherwise, it just stinks of token measures to satisfy the voters.

By and large agree with this. If they think that the terror threat is greatest from Islamic Militants, then there are several other countries which have housed, trained and/or exported these militants, including the UK, Pakistan and India.

What will Trump do if an attack comes, and it is linked to an extremist from the UK, for example?

To be clear, I am not supporting the policy, but merely poiting out that there are some flaws in it, if indeed the sole reason is to reduce the terror threat from Islamic militants/extremists.

 

[enkidu_]

Post of the week but our awaam is too blind too see this and they will keep voting for these monsters while blaming everyone else for their problems instead of opening eyes. Sharifs and Zardari Bhuttos are the biggest criminals od Pakistan but we allow th3 criminals to rule!

Sometimes slavery is sweeter, because assuming your responsibilities is weightier than keeping the chains.

 

[Gayle_Force]

I don't recall banning of afghans ever being demanded by Pakistanis or proposed by the Pakistani government. The issue has largely been the open border that is shared with Afghanistan because of which many people are able to cross borders without any vetting what so ever.

 

[dhump]

Hypocrisy is bread and butter of most that is why.

 

[Zahid87]

I don't recall banning of afghans ever being demanded by Pakistanis or proposed by the Pakistani government. The issue has largely been the open border that is shared with Afghanistan because of which many people are able to cross borders without any vetting what so ever.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1268209

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37163857

 

[Syed1]

Afghanis have been living in Pakistan for more than 30 years!!

Their country isn't even an active war zone anymore so why do they need to be refugees? Besides their president will have us believe that all terrorism in the world originates from Pakistan so shouldn't the Afghanis be running away from this dangerous country?

 

[Varun]

I've noticed that Muslims share great brotherhood with distressed Muslims from distant lands, but when it comes to walking the talk in their very own neighbourhood, all that sentiment gets thrown out of the window.

Pakistan vs Afghanistan is the example here, but of late I can also think of Bangladesh refusing permission for the Rohingyas to enter the country. Both peoples will spare no effort to cry their hearts out for the Palestinians, however.

Conversely, the likes of Egypt and Jordan who are Israel's neighbours right outside their doorstep are happy to have full diplomatic and trade relations with the country spanning decades. It's everyone else who wants to pretend it doesn't (shouldn't) exist day in and day out.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

700.000 refugees returned home recently to Afghanistan. The more that returns the better for Afghanistan. They might struggle initially but eventually a better future will await them.

In Pakistan they are being blamed for everything. Once they are gone maybe people will realize what the actual problem is and who is actually causing it and maybe they will start solving problems.

Trump is a total populist. The so called Ban is nothing but a farce and his dumb fans will believe it is actually solving anything.

Today 6 people were shot dead in a mosque in Canada. Imagine Trump reaction if it was a muslim. As it is he has not even forwarded his condolences.

 

[Gayle_Force]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1268209

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37163857

Banning an entire population from entering your country and refusing to provide refuge are two entirely different things. How can it even be compared?

 

[Gayle_Force]

I've noticed that Muslims share great brotherhood with distressed Muslims from distant lands, but when it comes to walking the talk in their very own neighbourhood, all that sentiment gets thrown out of the window.

Pakistan vs Afghanistan is the example here, but of late I can also think of Bangladesh refusing permission for the Rohingyas to enter the country. Both peoples will spare no effort to cry their hearts out for the Palestinians, however.

Conversely, the likes of Egypt and Jordan who are Israel's neighbours right outside their doorstep are happy to have full diplomatic and trade relations with the country spanning decades. It's everyone else who wants to pretend it doesn't (shouldn't) exist day in and day out.

I think support is there but you do have to realize that unlike the west, South Asian countries have a severe over population problem and hardly have resources to support their own. Unfortunately, It is just simply not feasible for them to provide refuge to a large number of people.

 

[Zahid87]

Banning an entire population from entering your country and refusing to provide refuge are two entirely different things. How can it even be compared?

They can be compared becuase they are both xenophobic, simplistic reactions to a much bigger problem.

Trump has put in a 90 day ban to safeguard the US from potential terorrists. Is the ban the answer? No. Did he make a xenophobic gesture, designed to appeal to a sector of the population ready to accept these people as potential terror threats? Yes

Refusuing to provide refuge is a nice term. The real story is that Pakistan is evicting people who have lived in the country for over 30 years, and have established lives there. The reason being that they 'are an economic burden', and linked to terrorism.

Again, is eviction the answer? No. Did Pakistan make a xenophobic gesture, designed to appeal to a sector of the population ready to accept these people as potential terror threats, amongst other things? Yes.

If Trump had asked all reguees currently in the US to leave, imagine the outcry.

 

[Gayle_Force]

They can be compared becuase they are both xenophobic, simplistic reactions to a much bigger problem.

Trump has put in a 90 day ban to safeguard the US from potential terorrists. Is the ban the answer? No. Did he make a xenophobic gesture, designed to appeal to a sector of the population ready to accept these people as potential terror threats? Yes

Refusuing to provide refuge is a nice term. The real story is that Pakistan is evicting people who have lived in the country for over 30 years, and have established lives there. The reason being that they 'are an economic burden', and linked to terrorism.

Again, is eviction the answer? No. Did Pakistan make a xenophobic gesture, designed to appeal to a sector of the population ready to accept these people as potential terror threats, amongst other things? Yes.

If Trump had asked all reguees currently in the US to leave, imagine the outcry.

Buddy they are completely different. It's like comparing apples with oranges. The OP implies that Pakistanis want a complete ban on Afghans entering Pakistan, which is clearly not the case.

Pakistan is home to more than a million refugees (one of the largest in the world) but its evident that the country cannot support them, that's one of the primary reasons refugees are not allowed to be naturalized citizens. The repatriation process did not start recently but was initiated in early 2000s. Therefore, it's not like a hastily put together solution like that implemented in the US. Pakistan has only started putting more of a foot down on this policy recently.

 

[DW44]

Post of the week but our awaam is too blind too see this and they will keep voting for these monsters while blaming everyone else for their problems instead of opening eyes. Sharifs and Zardari Bhuttos are the biggest criminals od Pakistan but we allow th3 criminals to rule!

It's not like them not voting in Sharifs and Zardaris would make any difference. After all, what powers do the Sharifs and Zardaris, or any elected government have beyond inaugurating various infrastructure projects and attending ribbon cutting ceremonies? This nation of idiots has been playing leader leader while those who actually rule the country are still treated like our lords and saviors by the masses. And secondly, as corrupt as Bhutto and Sharif are, they're not even close to the khakis when it comes to the title of biggest criminal in Pakistan. They say if you want to find out who rules you, find out who you can't criticize and when I look around myself, I see these minnows like Sharif and Zardari being ripped to shreds left, right and center by the media and the public but conspicuous by it's absence is any criticism of those who actually call the shots in this country, the ones who are actually responsible for where we're at right now. Sharif and Zardari are just a minor distraction to keep the people occupied.

 

[DW44]

As far as the issue of Afghan refugees, particularly their role in crime, is concerned, this report sums it up nicely:

THE grim scapegoating of Afghan refugees by both the state and its law enforcers has long been assailed by right-minded sections of the public and the media. But the relentless propaganda against this vulnerable section has continued to the point where public opinion appears to have been irreversibly poisoned against the continued presence of Afghan refugees on Pakistani soil. In building a narrative of hostility, one particular accusation has played a central role — that Afghan refugees have driven up the crime rate in Pakistan, and KP in particular, to unacceptable levels. But, going by a report in this newspaper on Sunday, that myth has been exploded by official crime statistics themselves. According to documents obtained under the provincial Right to Information Act, of the major crimes in which cases were registered, the involvement of Afghan refugees was about 1pc of the total. The stark figures bear some repeating because they are obtained from the Directorate of Prosecution and Department of Police. From 2014 to September 2016, of the 10,549 cases put up in court, a negligible 134 cases involved Afghan refugees. And of the more than 23,007 individuals accused in the cases, only 300 consisted of Afghan refugees.

That the Afghan refugee involvement in major crimes in the province, as catalogued by the police itself, is so low is unsurprising — few major crimes have ever been specifically blamed on or proved to be the doing of Afghan refugees. What is shocking, however, is the degree to which public officials have distorted the truth in recent times. The vilification of Afghan refugees as a prelude to forcing them out of the country is an ongoing process and one of the more shameful chapters in this country’s history. While officially denied, Afghan refugees have become a pawn in a policy tug-of-war between the Afghan and Pakistani states: Kabul’s reluctance to cooperate on border management, its seeming unwillingness to clamp down on anti-Pakistan militant sanctuaries in eastern Afghanistan, and its aggressive denunciation of this country for a failed peace process have contributed to an environment where Pakistan may be seeking to punish Afghanistan by forcing it to take in a mass of population that it cannot sustain. True, Pakistan has a legitimate right to encourage the humane and voluntary repatriation of Afghan refugees, but that right must not be abused for political purposes. The harassment of Afghan refugees must cease.

Source: http://www.dawn.com/news/1308849

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If afghanis were to be banned from entering pakistan, majority of pakiatan would support this. But when they themselves face a threat of being banned from entering US, why find offense in it?

It won't affect Muslims from English speaking white countries so I am not affected. If the Americans ban people like you who are Pakistan based, well I can't say I blame them.

As for racism of any sort towards Afghans by Pakistanis, I condemn it wholeheartedly and always have. Ironically, if I'm not wrong, you are previously one of the most vocal critics of Afghans in Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

Every single nation on earth discriminates when it comes to deciding who is allowed in and who is not.

When exceptions are made for sportsmen, musicians and film stars but others have to face very stringent tests and are subject to quotas, is that not discrimination?

When a country demands visas from the citizens from some countries, but allows visa free entry to nationals of other countries, is that not discrimination?

When students studying certain types of courses are allowed in, whilst others are not, is that not discrimination?

However, when a country completely bans the citizens of another nation, especially when it's own citizens are allowed to go into and out of that country without any problems, then that is discrimination on a totally different level. For example, thousands of U.S. soldiers, civilian contractors, businessmen, journalists, etc are in Iraq even now. If the U.S. is putting a blanket ban on all Iraqis coming to the USA, presumably the U.S. would have no objections if Iraq puts a blanket ban on all Americans going to Iraq?

 

[James]

To be honest I think a lot of people, domestically and overseas, agree with Trump. But they are staying at home and staying quiet.

It's just an extremely vocal minority with a finite shelf life that is doing all of the protesting.

 

[Badsha]

To be honest I think a lot of people, domestically and overseas, agree with Trump. But they are staying at home and staying quiet.

It's just an extremely vocal minority with a finite shelf life that is doing all of the protesting.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the economic problems faced by the U.S knows this is a complete joke. This 7 nation ban is achieving nothing.

 

[James]

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the economic problems faced by the U.S knows this is a complete joke. This 7 nation ban is achieving nothing.

Trump was successfully elected, a lot of people will agree with what he is doing.

 

[Yossarian]

Trump was successfully elected, a lot of people will agree with what he is doing.

Numerous leaders throughout history have been elected, who, once elected, turned out to be the biggest tyrants and mass murderers that you can imagine. And for them to have carried out their crimes, they too needed, and had, the support of a lot of people who agreed with what they were doing,

 

[James]

Numerous leaders throughout history have been elected, who, once elected, turned out to be the biggest tyrants and mass murderers that you can imagine. And for them to have carried out their crimes, they too needed, and had, the support of a lot of people who agreed with what they were doing,

Indeed. Scary stuff coming from the US at the moment.

 

[enkidu_]

Numerous leaders throughout history have been elected, who, once elected, turned out to be the biggest tyrants and mass murderers that you can imagine. And for them to have carried out their crimes, they too needed, and had, the support of a lot of people who agreed with what they were doing,

True, Obama dropped more than 26 000 bombs on 7 Islamic countries with which America is, theoretically at least, not at war.

If Trump drops 25 999 - being an American he will - he'll still be better than O'bomber.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak is supposed to be a USA ally that has sacrificed so much in the so called WOT. Afghans have just been a burden on Pak for over 40 years. They have given us nothing in return other then hate and terrorism.

 

[Badsha]

Trump was successfully elected, a lot of people will agree with what he is doing.

Find me a lot of economic experts that agree.

 

[ExpressPacer]

A very good question but there's a huge logic behind as to why this is a poor argument. First of all, (most) Pakistani's against Afghans entering Pakistan are against illegal Afghans inside Pakistan. They are not against Afghans entering their country, but in fact entering illegally - which is by simply crossing the border.

You cannot even argue that Pakistani's are being indifferent and ignorant to the problems of Afghanistan because 1) Afghanistan is no longer war torn. 2) Afghanistan is relatively financially stable now. 3) Pakistan itself is not economically in a position to host refugees anymore. 4) Afghanistan govt. chooses to keep very good relations with India, Pakistan's enemy.

As to address the question of Pakistani's being against the "Muslim" ban, then let me remind you, we aren't even banning Afghans, we're simply asking them to apply for the visa and travel as an Afghan citizen with a passport. USA on the other hand is solely targeting Muslims. Also, USA is the land of immigrants - something Pakistan never was. So them stopping and making immigration tougher is an insult to their own existence.

 

[Markhor]

It is right that illegal crossing of the border must be clamped down. There's been around 1 million undocumented Afghans in the country and it represents a security risk. I have no problem with the repatriation of unregistered Afghan refugees and of Afghans who've committed crimes in Pakistan.

However harassment of registered Afghan refugees who've gone through the relevant processes, set up homes and businesses in Pakistan is not right. Scapegoating of a whole community is not right given Pakistan's biggest security threat comes from homegrown extremists and radical seminaries operating out of places like South Punjab yet we're not laying a glove on these organisations.

Mass forced returns of families who have no place to go, causing them to join the hundreds of thousands internally displaced in Afghanistan, isn't only immoral but illogical policy as it'll cause needless resentment towards Pakistan. Believe me I don't have any love for Afghanistan and have hated how they've dragged their feet on issues like fencing of the border, their blaming of Pakistan for everything, refusal to accept Durand Line etc but you should run government on logic and reason and not emotion.

Those who were born in the refugee camps of Pakistan are Pakistanis yet they are also being bundled off.

 

[Syed1]

Yesterday's suicide bomber was Afghani from Afghanistan. How the hell did that animal manage to cross the border without any scrutiny?

 

[Syed1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Intelligence agencies trace culprits of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LahoreBlast?src=hash">#LahoreBlast</a> resulting in to important apprehensions overnight including few Afghans: Army Chief</p>— Nadeem Malik (@nadeemmalik) <a href="https://twitter.com/nadeemmalik/status/831529577176584193">February 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



For those people who are apologetic about the activities of the Afghans in Pakistan. Are you happy now?

 

[Zahid87]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Intelligence agencies trace culprits of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LahoreBlast?src=hash">#LahoreBlast</a> resulting in to important apprehensions overnight including few Afghans: Army Chief</p>— Nadeem Malik (@nadeemmalik) <a href="https://twitter.com/nadeemmalik/status/831529577176584193">February 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



For those people who are apologetic about the activities of the Afghans in Pakistan. Are you happy now?

That kind of attitude is 'Trumpesque'. How can you judge an entire race of people based on the actions of a few?

 

[Syed1]

That kind of attitude is 'Trumpesque'. How can you judge an entire race of people based on the actions of a few?

All of the terrorist attacks in US in the last decade have been by born-in-America terrorists and therefore blaming immigrants in the US for terrorism is uncalled for.


However, majority of terrorist attacks in Pakistan is undertaken by Afghan nationals and therefore a 'Trumpesque' attitude is exactly the need of the hour.