Pakistan's MQM 'received Indian funding' [BBC Report]

[Strike Rate]

Officials in Pakistan's MQM party have told the UK authorities they received Indian government funds, the BBC learnt from an authoritative Pakistani source.

UK authorities investigating the MQM for alleged money laundering also found a list of weapons in an MQM property.

A Pakistani official has told the BBC that India has trained hundreds of MQM militants over the last 10 years.
The Indian authorities described the claims as "completely baseless". The MQM said it was not going to comment.

With 24 members in the National Assembly, the Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) has long been a dominant force in the politics of Pakistan's largest city, Karachi.

British authorities held formal recorded interviews with senior MQM officials who told them the party was receiving Indian funding, the BBC was told.

Meanwhile a Pakistani official has told the BBC that India has trained hundreds of MQM militants in explosives, weapons and sabotage over the last 10 years in camps in north and north-east India.

Before 2005-2006 the training was given to a small number of mid-ranking members of the MQM, the official said.
More recently greater numbers of more junior party members have been trained.

The claims follow the statement of a senior Karachi police officer that two arrested MQM militants said they had been trained in India. In April Rao Anwar gave details of how the two men went to India via Thailand to be trained by the Indian intelligence agency RAW.

In response MQM leader Altaf Hussain issued a tirade of abuse at Rao Anwar.

Asked about the claims of Indian funding and training of the MQM, the Indian High Commission in London said: "Shortcomings of governance cannot be rationalised by blaming neighbours."

The UK authorities started investigating the MQM in 2010 when a senior party leader, Imran Farooq, was stabbed to death outside his home in north London.

In the course of those inquiries the police found around £500,000 ($787,350) in the MQM's London offices and in the home of MQM leader Altaf Hussain. That prompted a second investigation into possible money laundering.

In the course of the inquiries the UK authorities found a list itemising weapons, including mortars, grenades and bomb-making equipment in an MQM property, according to Pakistani media reports that the BBC believes to be credible. The list included prices for the weapons. Asked about the list, the MQM made no response.

As the UK police investigations have progressed, the British judiciary has been taking an increasingly tough line on the MQM. Back in 2011 a British judge adjudicating an asylum appeal case found that "the MQM has killed over 200 police officers who have stood up against them in Karachi".

Last year another British judge hearing another such case found: "There is overwhelming objective evidence that the MQM for decades had been using violence."

The MQM is also under pressure in Pakistan. In March the country's security forces raided the party's Karachi headquarters. They claimed to have found a significant number of weapons there. The MQM said they were planted.

The party has a solid support base made up of the Mohajirs, or refugees who left India at the time of partition so that they could settle in Pakistan.
The Mohajirs complain that they have been the subject of sustained discrimination in Pakistan. The MQM insists it is a peaceful, secular party representing the interests of the middle classes in Pakistan.

As well as its electoral base, the MQM has formidable street power. When it orders a strike the streets empty and the whole of Karachi grinds to a halt.

Altaf Husain has lived in self-imposed exile in the UK for more than 20 years. He was given a British passport in 2002. For many years the party has been accused of using violence to impose its will in Karachi.

A number of MQM officials, including Altaf Hussain, have been arrested in relation to the money-laundering case but no-one has been charged. The party insists that all its funds are legitimate and that most of them come from donors in the business community in Karachi.

India has long accused Pakistani officials of involvement in sponsoring militant attacks in India. Delhi, for example, has demanded that Pakistan take firmer action against those suspected of plotting and managing the Mumbai attacks of 2008.

The latest developments in the MQM case suggest that Pakistan will now counter such complaints with demands that India stop sponsoring violent forces in Karachi.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33148880

 

[Strike Rate]

So now even reports are coming from outside Pakistan about Indian funding and support to some groups in Pakistan. Let the deny game starts!

 

[habibi hayya]

Is anyone surprised? You have been living under the rock if your shocked by all of this.

AH routinely talks about breaking Karachi away from Pakistan. Who do you think wants that to happen more than anything else?

 

[Strike Rate]

Is anyone surprised? You have been living under the rock if your shocked by all of this.

AH routinely talks about breaking Karachi away from Pakistan. Who do you think wants that to happen more than anything else?

this is nothing new for Pakistanis but the new thing here is that now the news is coming from outside Pakistan so this time it will be hard for indian govt to defend and let see what they do against BBC if they are clean.

BBC office is now closed in Karachi reason is this documentary

 

[tahir_dj]

Something which is known to every Pakistani already.

Wait for Mqm brigade to come and say this is conspiracy againt their leader who they think is choosen by Quaid E Azam before he was even born

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/29/altaf-hussain-mqm-leader-pakistan-london

If Hussain were a suspected London-based jihadi, many Pakistanis believe, he would have been arrested years ago.

Pakistanis point to other instances where they believe the UK has favoured Hussain. In 2002 he was issued with a UK passport. Off the record, British officials admit that the process by which he obtained nationality was flawed – a decision in January 1999 to grant him indefinite leave to remain in the UK was made as a result of a "clerical error". Despite repeated questions, the Home Office has refused to disclose what that error was.

Most Pakistanis dismiss the idea of a clerical error as risible. They point to a letter No 10 received from Hussain as evidence of how the UK and the MQM have tried to conceal the true nature of their relationship. Written just two weeks after 9/11, in it Hussain says that if the UK wanted hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of Karachi denouncing terrorism he could lay that on with just five days' notice. He claimed he could also organise human intelligence on the Taliban and could set up a network of fake aid workers in Afghanistan to back up Western intelligence gathering efforts there.

After a copy of the letter appeared on the internet, the MQM denied its authenticity. Disclosures under the Freedom of Information Act have established that the letter is in fact authentic. Faced with that information, the Foreign Office admitted it had received the letter.

Well done Altaf. Thanks to scumbags like you, genuine aid workers have been prevented from helping the poor.

 

[Deosai]

The MQM should be banned.

If the government wants MQM to lose whatever support it has in parts of Karachi and Hyderabad then it needs to abolish the quota system and grant more autonomy to Karachi.

 

[Strike Rate]

At least 2 of senior MQM leaders in London are indian and one of them is currently second of Altaf (Muhammad Anwar) and he is going to take over the party after Altaf.

 

[Strike Rate]

WTH lol MQM clowns are now saying PTI Chairman Imran Khan is behind creating this fake bbc story. So they think he runs BBC?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

WTH lol MQM clowns are now saying PTI Chairman Imran Khan is behind creating this fake bbc story. So they think he runs BBC?

Maybe they think he runs the Guardian as well. Some pretty damning stuff there:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/29/altaf-hussain-mqm-leader-pakistan-london

 

[Strike Rate]

Maybe they think he runs the Guardian as well. Some pretty damning stuff there:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/29/altaf-hussain-mqm-leader-pakistan-london

Yes did read that article and now it's almost clear the days of Altaf are numbered because all the people involved in Imran Farooq murder are arrested in Pakistan and Scotland Yard is coming in a couple of days to investigate them.

 

[Bewal Express]

I hope someone nails this murderous thug. But we know that the deals will be made and he will carry on as normal.

 

[#GreenRoars]

So now even reports are coming from outside Pakistan about Indian funding and support to some groups in Pakistan. Let the deny game starts!

" Haqeeqat Chup nahe sakti banawat k usoolon se
Khushboo aa nahe sakte kabhi kaghaz k pholon se "

it's the fact and every one knows it. even insider or outsider. but every time outsiders denied that these are rumors spread by pakistani media. now let's see what is people response

 

[MSaad1237]

Lol Cover is blown .

 

[Strike Rate]

" Haqeeqat Chup nahe sakti banawat k usoolon se
Khushboo aa nahe sakte kabhi kaghaz k pholon se "

it's the fact and every one knows it. even insider or outsider. but every time outsiders denied that these are rumors spread by pakistani media. now let's see what is people response

so true!

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

 

[Saeed]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

Are you trying to say that BBC is on the payroll of ISI? What would BBC gain anyway be defaming Bhai?

 

[www787]

in before usual Bharti army on PP ask for evidence.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

And I thought you were one of the more balanced Indian members here.

 

[Slog]

it is sad and funny to see govt and the armed forces and others to pull all stops to discredit and demonize MQM (which is fine and well doenst require a whole lot of effort..) But no one seems the least bit interested in solving the underlying issue because of which parties like MQM are able to garner support. This topi drama is going on for 25 years

 

[www787]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King,Modi etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

Fixed

 

[zabalestmsm]

A verdict was announced by the SC way back in 2011 regarding Karachi unrest! I guess that must have explained the situation of Karachi! So until now none has come up with any solution! But lets see how the current operation by Rangers turn out to be! So far the media is showing it to be a successful process!


Details from the 2011 verdict by the SC regarding Karachi unrest below:

•It is the duty of the State to protect and safeguard all these Fundamental Rights including the right to life and liberty as envisaged by Article 9 of the Constitution.
•The State is duty bound to protect the life and property of its citizens in accordance with law against all the atrocities, target killings, homicide, etc. The basic human rights of life, liberty and enjoyment of one’s property have been recognized nationally as well as internationally.
•The Federation and Provinces are equally responsible to adhere to the provisions of the Constitution, particularly for ensuring the enforcement of Fundamental Rights as guaranteed by the Constitution. The Federal and the Provincial Governments, though not directly, but indirectly share their responsibility in running the affairs of the Province in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Constitution.
•There are not only Urdu Speaking, (When the Court uses the term ‘Urdu Speaking’ it is for a specific purpose. As it is the language common to all and even those who proudly speak Pashto, Punjabi, Sindhi or Baluchi, can and do speak Urdu), Pashtun, Sindhis, and Balochis, Punjabis, Saraikis, but foreigners and others also live in Karachi and all of them are the victims of violence, crime, fear and insecurity, as is evident from FIRs, reports, etc. submitted from time to time by the police department.
•Some of the hardened criminals, who associate themselves with the political parties do take support of the powerful groups/political parties as is evident from the reports of the joint investigation team of various intelligence agencies including ISI and others. These reports have been filed by Syed Iftikhar Hussain Gillani, throwing sufficient light on the criminal activities of these heartless criminals such as Ajmal Pahari, Kamran Madhuri and many others.
•It goes without saying that if the involvement of above accused persons allegedly aligned with a political party is established, it may entail serious consequences for said political party as well, because a political party cannot be formed or cannot operate in a manner prejudicial to the sovereignty or integrity of Pakistan.
•It is also astonishing that most of the accused persons nominated in crimes have got their acquittal on the plea of alibi and false involvement. We are surprised to know that the law enforcement agencies, who are supposed to conduct investigation honestly, had allegedly involved persons falsely or half-heartedly in the commission of offences in which their fellow policemen were murdered.
•It seems that the police primarily being responsible to enforce law and order has no intention to deliver. Either they are scared or they are dishonest or absolutely lack the requisite skills.
•It could be that in the year 1992 operation clean up was launched against MQM wherein statedly, the police had played an active role, but subsequently, 92 police officers/officials disappeared and up till now there is no clue of their whereabouts nor is it known that by whom, and under whose patronage, such persons were abducted and/or killed. Another reason appears to be that police force has been highly politicized, recruitments have been made on political considerations.
•It came to light during hearing of the case that in police force many police officers have been recruited on political considerations who have managed to occupy such posts for extraneous considerations and senior officers in the rank of SSP, SP and DSP etc. have been inducted into the force from other organizations without following any rules and even they have not undergone training for the purpose of policing.
•The IGP stated that presently, the total strength of police force is 32,524, out of which approximately 12,000 are performing security duties, including 8,000 deployed with VIPs and only 20,000 personnel of police force were left for the purpose of policing of 18 million people in Karachi.
•The majority of the police force performing duty in Karachi comprises brave and devoted officers and men. They risk their lives often targeted by unidentifiable enemies enjoying mobility in action. They deserve the respect of the nation.
•If the police official/officers are not sincere with the victims belonging to their own rank and file, what expectation could one have from such force, which, admittedly, stands politicized, for initiating forceful action against the culprits involved in causing target killing, brutal murders, cutting limbs of human bodies and putting the dead bodies and torsos into bags with a view to terrorizing the society as a whole in general and the inhabitants of Karachi city in particular.
•The IGP has also made before this Court another admission while giving his presentation, summary of which has been reproduced hereinabove, that there are no go areas within the jurisdiction of different police stations.
•In this view of the matter, we are of the opinion that the police without having any commitment/dedication and other reasons highlighted hereinabove, is not in a position to make any break through unless the whole force is de-politicized and their morale is boosted by the senior officers, having credible service/ training, commitment, dedication always ready to discharge their functions willingly and to the best of their ability.
•The political face of the city has been taken hostage by militant groups of political parties. Political parties are penetrated by the criminals under the garb of political groups who use party flags. The militants and criminals are taking refuge in the lap of political and ethnic parties which use the flags of these parties to commit illegal activities with impunity.
•Besides, the DG Rangers candidly conceded that bhatta [extortion money] is a normal practice and criminals are collecting bhatta, which, every day, runs into at least 10 million rupees and it is being charged from an ordinary shopkeeper, rehriwala (push-cart peddler) up to the top businessman by criminals who have got the backing of the political parties who are the stakeholders.
•Bhatta is being collected invariably by the persons who claim their association with ANP, MQM, PPP, Jamat-e-Islami, Sunni Tehrik, etc. Besides, activists of the organizations banned under the Anti-Terrorism Act, 1997 are also indulging in these activities.
•Initiation of Suo Moto proceedings by the Court sent one straight and simple message to an administration working under political pressures: “Take no political pressure from any quarter whatsoever”. This was an unstated message, but it was loud and clear.
•A depoliticized administration suddenly came to life in fighting crimes, criminals and Mafias, political and otherwise. That is what the intervention of the Court achieved. We the Judges have no guns to fight the terrorists, but we have the authority to ensure and strengthen the hands of those who actually apply the law.
•Courts can only act upon evidence and material presented before them. This has to be collected by the executive. The Courts cannot be blamed if the executive/police fail in their duty. Moreover the evidence thus collected must be evaluated according to the laws and rules prescribed by the legislature. In these especial circumstances it is for the Government to ensure that cogent evidence to support prosecution is collected and presented in the Court.
•The Court expects that a new culture of independent, depoliticized, and non-partisan prosecution comprising efficient, capable prosecutors will be established by the government to aid and assist the Courts. The Government must also depoliticize the administration/prosecution. This will be for its own good and for that of the nation. The Courts will keep a watchful eye and strike down all illegal pressures and orders that are brought to their notice.
•It may be noted that as far as offence of extortion of money is concerned, which can also be considered as bhatta, it is covered by sections 386 to 388 of the Pakistan Penal Code and also falls within the definition of terrorism given in section 6(1)(k) of the Anti-terrorism Act, 1997.
•We may reiterate here that now it is not possible under the Constitution and law for the Armed Forces to dismiss the Government by adopting extra-constitutional measures, detailed reference in this behalf, if required, can be made to the only judgment of this Court in Sindh High Court Bar Association’s case (ibid), but at the same time the chosen representatives also owe a duty to the Constitution and if they feel that on account of any political expediency they can allow the continuance of the present position of law and order in the Province, it will be at their own risk and cost, otherwise under the Constitution they are bound to secure lives and properties, ensuring the proprietary rights, freedom of movement, etc., and failing which constitutionally such government is likely to lose their right of ruling.]
•Karachi is full of arms and ammunition of prohibited and non-prohibited bores including licensed and illicit, therefore, Karachi has to be cleansed from all kinds of weapons by adhering to the laws available on the subject, and if need be, by promulgating new legislation. All licensed arms genuinely required for security concerns and personal safety may be retained but these must also be registered with NADRA.
•We direct that there must be no ‘NO GO AREAS’ at all in Karachi. If any is found or credibly reported to the Court the Police and, if required by the Provincial Government, the Rangers shall take strong and decisive action to eliminate it. Moreover, if such an area is proved to exist to the satisfaction of the Court, we may require the IGP himself, and if necessary the DG Rangers also, to personally lead the operation into such areas.
•However, we have noted that about 80 percent FIRs, which have been registered during the last one month, have been cancelled by declaring them as “A” class and whatever progress has been made in causing arrests of the accused, it is after instant proceedings by this Court.
•The Federal Government could have provided assistance to the Provincial Government to control the disturbances without any delay, but we fail to understand the reasons prevailing with the Federal Government in not acting promptly as the learned counsel has himself by reciting verses from Holy Quran pointed out that killing of one human being is tantamount to killing of whole mankind.
•The morale of the police is low. Even honest Policemen are demoralized. They are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, they may be punished for doing their duty if it runs counter to the political objectives of the party in power and on the other, they are afraid of being shot by the persons they have apprehended or their associates. They are conscious of the fact that so many policemen who took part in the operations of 1992 and 1996 have disappeared or have been eliminated. It is necessary, therefore, for the Police to fully and impartially investigate and find out the circumstances of each such disappearance/elimination and provide a detailed report to this Court in respect thereof.
•Both the Provincial and Federal Governments/Executives have to find out solutions of the present scenario as per provisions of the Constitution.
•Police force being principal law enforcing agency has to be de-politicized and strengthened so that they could, with full commitment, dedication, zeal and zest, perform its bounden duty, and unless there is a de-politicized police, the situation of law and order is likely to become more aggravated.
•Banning any political party including MQM, against whom all the interveners mostly had voiced complaints is not within domain of the Court.
•There are criminals who have succeeded in making their ways in political parties notwithstanding whether they are components or non-components of government, and are getting political and financial support allegedly from such parties.
•DG NADRA and the IGP will set up a special joint cell with specialized officials and experts along with SMC 16/2011 ETC. 155 sufficient manpower to establish several teams to visit on the spot and identify illegal foreigners so that they may be dealt with strictly in accordance with law after a proper hearing and opportunity to present proof of their citizenship.
•IGP shall collect the record and facts about the disappearance or elimination of all police and other officials who took part in the Karachi operations of 1992 and 1996 or were witnesses in ethnic or related crimes and present a report to the Court within the next one month.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

it is sad and funny to see govt and the armed forces and others to pull all stops to discredit and demonize MQM (which is fine and well doenst require a whole lot of effort..) But no one seems the least bit interested in solving the underlying issue because of which parties like MQM are able to garner support. This topi drama is going on for 25 years

Which makes it all the more tragic that MQM has been allowed to entrench in Karachi as their Indian funded terrorism is deflecting from those underlying issues rather than addressing them.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Are you trying to say that BBC is on the payroll of ISI? What would BBC gain anyway be defaming Bhai?

That was just a poor joke sorry but nonetheless this is hardly shocking. Governments in Asia have been funding political parties in other countries for a long time. The Pakistanis have funded the BNP in Bangladesh as well as parties in Indian Kashmir. India has funded communists in Nepal as well as thrown money at various parties in Pakistan. MQM isn't even a banned organistation in Pakistan - if they are so bad then ban them.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Everybody knows this , why the shock ?


We fund there separatist they fund ours

 

[Laal]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

They have done nothing positive for the Muhajirs. Are you kidding me?

 

[Laal]

it is sad and funny to see govt and the armed forces and others to pull all stops to discredit and demonize MQM (which is fine and well doenst require a whole lot of effort..) But no one seems the least bit interested in solving the underlying issue because of which parties like MQM are able to garner support. This topi drama is going on for 25 years

Crack down on MQM. Give them hell. But Slog is absolutely right here.

 

[Deosai]

Sounds like an attempt to malign the MQM and try to put a stop to the stellar work they do in fighting for the rights of the muhajir people. The same tactics were used to try and discredit Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King etc and now they are out to get poor Altaf the same way.

"rights for muhajirs" lool they're not fighting for muhajir rights and muhajirs have all the rights they need, guaranteed by the constitution, there some other ethnic groups that are much more persecuted

 

[Saeed]

"rights for muhajirs" lool they're not fighting for muhajir rights and muhajirs have all the rights they need, guaranteed by the constitution, there some other ethnic groups that are much more persecuted

He is probably talking about the muhajirs in England. I mean that group named Al Muhajiron.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/al-muhajiroun

 

[www787]

Everybody knows this , why the shock ?


We fund there separatist they fund ours

some posters on PP and majority in Bharat believes bharti government and their prestige RAW agency is as pure as unborn child.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

some posters on PP and majority in Bharat believes bharti government and their prestige RAW agency is as pure as unborn child.

Deep down they all know it

General petreus hinted at it when he was in CENTCOM

It's just due to india's economic strength that people choose to ignore they are little different

every power in the world has bankrolled terrorists and criminals

 

[the Great Khan]

Just wondering where [MENTION=370]Rahul[/MENTION]rulez is since he thought I was a conspiracy theorist for even suggesting this. Its an open secret that post Salala all western intelligence ops within Pakistan are going to be wrapped up. This includes mr altafs little operation. Make no bones about it multiple intelligence agencies have been co-operating in the "AF-Pak" theatre for over a decade.

It is now quite clear that the confessions given to the karachi authorities by assassins from the MQM have been corroborated by the British. I'm now awaiting the decision from MI6 to ditch the liability that is altaf and hedge their bets with someone else..

 

[RWAC]

So some of the muhajirs we sent in 1947 turned out to be agents too?

Combined with the other story about the spy who got in the Pakistani Army, RAW seems on a roll.

 

[Deosai]

So some of the muhajirs we sent in 1947 turned out to be agents too?

Combined with the other story about the spy who got in the Pakistani Army, RAW seems on a roll.

Naah, it's only 1 guy and his organization.

 

[RWAC]

Naah, it's only 1 guy and his organization.

Yeah that's why I said some. The 1 holds sway over the financial capital of Pakistan.

 

[Deosai]

Yeah that's why I said some. The 1 holds sway over the financial capital of Pakistan.

He lives in London

 

[RWAC]

He lives in London

?? So? I thought his party does control Karachi (?).

 

[the Great Khan]

heres the report from the bbc for those who can view it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33148880

 

[the Great Khan]

So some of the muhajirs we sent in 1947 turned out to be agents too?

Combined with the other story about the spy who got in the Pakistani Army, RAW seems on a roll.

yes 50,000 dead Pakistanis and numerous dead in Karachi can attest to RAW being on a roll as you say. At least our Indian posters are now accepting the obvious.

 

[Hamza_]

Lol at people callimg pakistanis having victim mentality, Yes not all theories might be true but India is in general an extremist country.

 

[amax]

some posters on PP and majority in Bharat believes bharti government and their prestige RAW agency is as pure as unborn child.

Prime minister of India has openly accepted involvement In internal affairs of East Pakistan, One thing is being obvious but not formaly accepted other is accepting at such a formal high level its not a joke.

 

[the Great Khan]

Lol at people callimg pakistanis having victim mentality, Yes not all theories might be true but India is in general an extremist country.

now now stop with the conspiracy theories lest your accused of wearing a laal topi or playing the victim. As usual when confronted with the truth the troll army disappears.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

yes 50,000 dead Pakistanis and numerous dead in Karachi can attest to RAW being on a roll as you say. At least our Indian posters are now accepting the obvious.

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. They'll pipe down for a day or two then they'll be back along with their turncoat cheerleaders from Pakistan with the usual conspiracy theory/victim mentality BS.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Wow and I thought RAW was a useless organisation unlike ISI who have done their utmost to find separatist causes in India. Not bad .

 

[Hamza_]

now now stop with the conspiracy theories lest your accused of wearing a laal topi or playing the victim. As usual when confronted with the truth the troll army disappears.

Its normal to disgrace the nation or call out people conspiracy theorists just to look cool. India backs terrorists and is extremist. And generally has hatred towards pakistan and pakistanis. Their attitude over the years has been cringe worthy, And the person who calls them peaceful while claiming us to be having victim mentality is just a poor idealist. Its crystal clear to a blind even that Mqm is extremist.

 

[Hamza_]

Wow and I thought RAW was a useless organisation unlike ISI who have done their utmost to find separatist causes in India. Not bad .

Taregt killing and massacare has been carried out by MQM. Do you think its cool? I dont think so, Because tons of pakistanis that are human being like you or me are killed day by day.

 

[the Great Khan]

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. They'll pipe down for a day or two then they'll be back along with their turncoat cheerleaders from Pakistan with the usual conspiracy theory/victim mentality BS.

then Ill just post that link and say the word "salala" which normally helps break the spell their under!!

 

[the Great Khan]

Wow and I thought RAW was a useless organisation unlike ISI who have done their utmost to find separatist causes in India. Not bad .

thanks for accepting the truth that your country funds terrorism in Pakistan. It refreshing if more Indian posters would do the same and accept this undeniable fact.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

thanks for accepting the truth that your country funds terrorism in Pakistan. It refreshing if more Indian posters would do the same and accept this undeniable fact.

I haven't accepted anything lol.

 

[srh]

That was just a poor joke sorry but nonetheless this is hardly shocking. Governments in Asia have been funding political parties in other countries for a long time. The Pakistanis have funded the BNP in Bangladesh as well as parties in Indian Kashmir. India has funded communists in Nepal as well as thrown money at various parties in Pakistan. MQM isn't even a banned organistation in Pakistan - if they are so bad then ban them.

Gabbar bhai you need to work on your sarcasm skills

 

[RWAC]

yes 50,000 dead Pakistanis and numerous dead in Karachi can attest to RAW being on a roll as you say. At least our Indian posters are now accepting the obvious.

So, you're saying all of the 50,000 Pakistanis killed so far were killed by MQM, backed by the Indian government?

Did MQM, backed with Indian funds, decide to feed the snake of mujahideen in the 80s, or was it the sacred ISI and Pakistan Army? Was it India who openly armed and trained the mujahideen in the 1980s to please its American and Saudi masters? Did India-funded MQM decide a strategy of armed mujahideen should be used in Kashmir too after Afghanistan if the Kashmir issue was stuck on a stand-still?

Should I totally discount the fact that probably hundreds, if not thousands, have died from Pakistan-funded terrorism in Kashmir, Punjab (during the 80s), and Mumbai recently.

Or would you now say the Pakistani establishment has not even funded 1 death in India? Because if it has funded even 1 death of an Indian citizen, there is no point debating about numbers then. Once both countries start to play these games, numbers should not be used to show evil the other country is. If there's a war, there's a war. Better not have a (proxy) war in the first place, because when the war begins, don't expect either side to keep a count on numbers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

thanks for accepting the truth that your country funds terrorism in Pakistan. It refreshing if more Indian posters would do the same and accept this undeniable fact.

Musharraf actually said this straight out on Indian television when he was over there for an interview. He said you fund strife in our country and we fund it in yours. The audience and host just sat their in dumb silence with no idea how to respond.

I think Pakistan has been trying to thaw relations for some time though but India prefers the status quo. Just got to look at Modi fanboys posting up threads about how India can afford to take a financial hit to cripple Pakistan.

 

[srh]

UK should strip AH & his cronies of British citizenship and extradite him and others to Pakistan where they can face the justice.

Not sure what to do with MQM. If its sole purpose of creation was to help India in spreading terrorism & chaos inside Pakistan then it should be banned; otherwise it should be cleanse and allow to survive on its own.

 

[srh]

Must say RAW is very underrated and ISI is very overrated.

 

[Stewie]

What is new here.. We have always known MQM and Altaf have been Indian stooges for a long long long time.

 

[the Great Khan]

So, you're saying all of the 50,000 Pakistanis killed so far were killed by MQM, backed by the Indian government?

oh here we go, looks like I lit a fire under someone. Perhaps before cheerleading RAW's harkatain you should reflect on its raison detre. The Indian govts backing for the MQM has lead to how many deaths in Karachi? since 1986? do the math Sherlock.

Did MQM, backed with Indian funds, decide to feed the snake of mujahideen in the 80s, or was it the sacred ISI and Pakistan Army? Was it India who openly armed and trained the mujahideen in the 1980s to please its American and Saudi masters? Did India-funded MQM decide a strategy of armed mujahideen should be used in Kashmir too after Afghanistan if the Kashmir issue was stuck on a stand-still?

lol, I don't know how to answer this since you've tried to link two different issues. Stay on point. I can go into the issues you've highlighted but it will divert things. So lets stick to the thread. The MQM is being funded by you and yours to commit crimes within Pakistan. This includes assassinations, terrorism,riots, ethnic strife, treason and many other activities. I suggest you deal with this reality.


Should I totally discount the fact that probably hundreds, if not thousands, have died from Pakistan-funded terrorism in Kashmir, Punjab (during the 80s), and Mumbai recently.

no by all means count it. But the numbers are nothing compared to what's been happening in Pakistan since 1986. Peanuts.

Or would you now say the Pakistani establishment has not even funded 1 death in India? Because if it has funded even 1 death of an Indian citizen, there is no point debating about numbers then. Once both countries start to play these games, numbers should not be used to show evil the other country is. If there's a war, there's a war. Better not have a (proxy) war in the first place, because when the war begins, don't expect either side to keep a count on numbers.

err, its you and yours who are always portraying things a different way. the brave Indians fighting against hordes of evil Pakistani funded terrorists who come to kill them and theyre way of life. the reality is very different and with these open revelations coming to the fore it is refreshing to see our India posters grappling with this reality.

the facts are quite simple: RAW and its equivalents have been funding terrorism and separatism in Pakistan since 1952. Groups like the hathora group, the TTP, Jundullah, jiyay Sindh, MQM to name but a few. Ajit doval has openly admitted his role in supporting terror in Pakistan, the defence minister of india has admitted it, I eman you just cant make this stuff up. Salala proved beyond a shadow of doubt that various intelligence agencies were collaborating in the instigation of terror in Pakistan. Raymond davis also. The curtain has now dropped or "ab hamam main boht say parosee nagain kurhay hain"..

 

[the Great Khan]

Must say RAW is very underrated and ISI is very overrated.

whats their budget? in comparison the ISI gives us better bang for a buck. Overall though RAW has been co-operating closely with other intelligence services for a while now. But one by one their human intelligence networks are coming under pressure. e.g. the NGO's, the political parties etc!

 

[MSaad1237]

The main question is, what in the world is ISI and Pak Authorities doing about it ??

 

[the Great Khan]

The main question is, what in the world is ISI and Pak Authorities doing about it ??

err the op in Karachi? hello?

 

[MSaad1237]

err the op in Karachi? hello?

Why after soo many deaths tho ?? and is it enough ?


and btw, whats our response to this?? If India is doing all this in Pakistan then why aren't we doing the same in India ?? Is our Intelligence agency Incompetent ?

 

[the Great Khan]

Why after soo many deaths tho ?? and is it enough ?


and btw, whats our response to this?? If India is doing all this in Pakistan then why aren't we doing the same in India ?? Is our Intelligence agency Incompetent ?

not that simple. We have our hands full to stabilise the situation with regards to the TTP etc. The aim is simply to strengthen the country and its economy. Causing further strife in india will be detrimental and the Chinese are doing a better job of it anyway.

 

[RWAC]

oh here we go, looks like I lit a fire under someone. Perhaps before cheerleading RAW's harkatain you should reflect on its raison detre. The Indian govts backing for the MQM has lead to how many deaths in Karachi? since 1986? do the math Sherlock.

The only fire you lit is under MQM and its thousands of (your own) Pakistani supporters by bringing the 50,000 number in a thread JUST about MQM. In a way, did you imply that the MQM party with its huge support base is responsible for 50,000 deaths? Or were some of those deaths also due to the snakes Pakistan kept near the Afghan border? Because below you say those are two different issues, yet you decided to lump the 50,000 number in a thread about MQM only.

lol, I don't know how to answer this since you've tried to link two different issues. Stay on point. I can go into the issues you've highlighted but it will divert things. So lets stick to the thread. The MQM is being funded by you and yours to commit crimes within Pakistan. This includes assassinations, terrorism,riots, ethnic strife, treason and many other activities. I suggest you deal with this reality.

Sure let's stick to MQM. But please do tell me if I should assume that the 50,000 killed were just a result of Indian-funded MQM since you quoted that number in your original post?

no by all means count it. But the numbers are nothing compared to what's been happening in Pakistan since 1986. Peanuts.

Sure let me for a second believe that the numbers may be 'peanuts' as you call it (to me, every Indian citizen's life is valuable). But I did tell you - once proxy wars start, its futile to cry over the numbers.

err, its you and yours who are always portraying things a different way. the brave Indians fighting against hordes of evil Pakistani funded terrorists who come to kill them and theyre way of life. the reality is very different and with these open revelations coming to the fore it is refreshing to see our India posters grappling with this reality.

I don't know how this response is relevant to what I posted. I said if you agree that even if 1 Indian citizen has been killed by Pakistani-funded terrorism, I am not going to count the numbers after that. 1 does not equal hordes.

You probably started on the 'hordes of evil Pakistanis' line because we've fed you so much of that in the media that this is the first thing that comes to your mind, even if I mention 1 victim of Pakistani terror. Not your fault.

the facts are quite simple: RAW and its equivalents have been funding terrorism and separatism in Pakistan since 1952. Groups like the hathora group, the TTP, Jundullah, jiyay Sindh, MQM to name but a few. Ajit doval has openly admitted his role in supporting terror in Pakistan, the defence minister of india has admitted it, I eman you just cant make this stuff up. Salala proved beyond a shadow of doubt that various intelligence agencies were collaborating in the instigation of terror in Pakistan. Raymond davis also. The curtain has now dropped or "ab hamam main boht say parosee nagain kurhay hain"..

Well, use the PR machine and expose us. Me and other posters accepting things here on PP means jack. I will assume Pakistan will have some success for sure if they can even use it half as good as the Indians do.

Although you backed out on your own point to stay on topic, and went as far back as 1952. Then let me tell you - we only learned from the Pakistani strategy of sending non-state actors in Kashmir starting in 1948 guruji.

 

[akki]

We people criticize raw alot in india that they are nalayak....learn from isi how good they are lolll

 

[the Great Khan]

The only fire you lit is under MQM and its thousands of (your own) Pakistani supporters by bringing the 50,000 number in a thread JUST about MQM. In a way, did you imply that the MQM party with its huge support base is responsible for 50,000 deaths? Or were some of those deaths also due to the snakes Pakistan kept near the Afghan border? Because below you say those are two different issues, yet you decided to lump the 50,000 number in a thread about MQM only.

how many have died in Karachi as a direct result of MQM terrorism? the number is more than 50,000. I am a victim of their gunda gardi too. So thanks to the indian tax payer on that front.

Sure let's stick to MQM. But please do tell me if I should assume that the 50,000 killed were just a result of Indian-funded MQM since you quoted that number in your original post?

the number is more and yes the direct funding and support provided by india to the TTP and the MQM means India is directly responsible. Including the Peshawar massacre.

Sure let me for a second believe that the numbers may be 'peanuts' as you call it (to me, every Indian citizen's life is valuable). But I did tell you - once proxy wars start, its futile to cry over the numbers.

once again thank you for admitting your support for terrorists in Pakistan. Its a brave thing to do.


I don't know how this response is relevant to what I posted. I said if you agree that even if 1 Indian citizen has been killed by Pakistani-funded terrorism, I am not going to count the numbers after that. 1 does not equal hordes.

as usual you misunderstand my point. India has been the one since 2008 that has been going out of its way to portray Pakistan as a hotbed of terrorism. The lie has been exposed. Post salala/snowden the western media has shut its trap and will these revelations Indias blatant involvement in terrorism in Pakistan has been exposed.

You probably started on the 'hordes of evil Pakistanis' line because we've fed you so much of that in the media that this is the first thing that comes to your mind, even if I mention 1 victim of Pakistani terror. Not your fault.

again you misunderstand my point. I was being sarcastic but again thanks for admitting that your govt lies and portrays Pakistan a certain way for its own benefit.

Well, use the PR machine and expose us. Me and other posters accepting things here on PP means jack. I will assume Pakistan will have some success for sure if they can even use it half as good as the Indians do.

don't need a PR machine. Simple police actions and investigations have been enough. The agreement with the NDS, the wrapping up of RAWS ops on the afghan border, the destruction of its proxy army the TTP, the exposing of activities linked to western intel agencies and RAW have resulted in a quiet and compliant western media that dare not use the "do more" mantra any more lest their own deeds become exposed. Seymore hersch's revelations also feed into this. PR is for those wishing to hide and then cover up. We have no need to do this.


Although you backed out on your own point to stay on topic, and went as far back as 1952. Then let me tell you - we only learned from the Pakistani strategy of sending non-state actors in Kashmir starting in 1948 guruji.

again two totally different examples that cannot really be compared. But carry on. I'm finding the new found honesty from our Indian posters very refreshing.

regards

 

[MSaad1237]

We people criticize raw alot in india that they are nalayak....learn from isi how good they are lolll

oh dear!! I hope you're kidding on this ..

 

[MSaad1237]

ISI is #1 intelligence agency only on paper and some Pakistani social websites . Funny thing is that most Pakistanis actually believe that crap.


ISI to me is an incompetent agency which has failed to protect the lives of its citizens 1000000s of times , We also lost Siachin cause of the incompetence of ISI . Would you expect MI6, CIA and Mossad to have soo many failures like these?? Nope .

 

[MSaad1237]

ISI also has a Huge role in Pakistani politics (Unlike any other Intl. agency, who never gets involved in country's politics).

 

[Deosai]

ISI also has a Huge role in Pakistani politics (Unlike any other Intl. agency, who never gets involved in country's politics).

lol you're so naive if you think intel agencies around the world don't interfere in domestive and intl politics, it's been going on for ages, even before Pakistan was formed.

 

[Deosai]

ISI is #1 intelligence agency only on paper and some Pakistani social websites . Funny thing is that most Pakistanis actually believe that crap.


ISI to me is an incompetent agency which has failed to protect the lives of its citizens 1000000s of times , We also lost Siachin cause of the incompetence of ISI . Would you expect MI6, CIA and Mossad to have soo many failures like these?? Nope .

We have a media that higlights the ISI's failures but the agencies have demi god status around the world and don't ever get criticized as much

 

[MSaad1237]

lol you're so naive if you think intel agencies around the world don't interfere in domestive and intl politics, it's been going on for ages, even before Pakistan was formed.

Not as much as ISI does , ISI has a more than required role in Pakistani Politics despite their incompetence , you very well know that ..

 

[the Great Khan]

ISI is #1 intelligence agency only on paper and some Pakistani social websites . Funny thing is that most Pakistanis actually believe that crap.


ISI to me is an incompetent agency which has failed to protect the lives of its citizens 1000000s of times , We also lost Siachin cause of the incompetence of ISI . Would you expect MI6, CIA and Mossad to have soo many failures like these?? Nope .

considering the lack of funds and manpower they have done an immense job. the fruits of which are now appearing.

 

[the Great Khan]

just saw kashifs off the record program. Wasim Akhter from the MQM looked a beaten man. Trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[MSaad1237]

considering the lack of funds and manpower they have done an immense job. the fruits of which are now appearing.

ISI comes under direct control of the Army , so are you sure that they lack the funds ? and they have more no. of spies than most Intelligence agencies in the world. You can say that they lack the Technology and equipment than most of the other Top agencies in the world .


Look, ISI is a decent Intelligence agency, They are playing their part , I'm sure.. But you can't overlook their incompetency at the same time.. Their policies in Afghanistan and regarding Talibans have been complete failures , the policies in Kashmir have been failures aswell, also I put blame on ISI for Pakistan losing Siachin , as they weren't able to intercept the movement there ..



And please!!! Don't even think of comparing them to MI6, CIA, Mossad etc. they are on whole different level , its funny when some of the Pakistanis claim ISI to be the best in the world on basis of few social websites, when it really isn't.

 

[Deosai]

Not as much as ISI does , ISI has a more than required role in Pakistani Politics despite their incompetence , you very well know that ..

No, actually all intel agencies meddle in their country's political system, and many in the CIA and other meddle in other countries other then their own

 

[RexRex]

Everyone is excited by a report based on some obscure Pakistani source ? It sounds like baloney to me ..even Imran Khan seemed skeptical when asked if he thought there was Indian involvement.

Having said that , funding a registered political party is not the same as funding terror groups..

 

[MSaad1237]

Everyone is excited by a report based on some obscure Pakistani source ? It sounds like baloney to me ..even Imran Khan seemed skeptical when asked if he thought there was Indian involvement.

Having said that , funding a registered political party is not the same as funding terror groups..

So BBC is a Pakistani source now ??

 

[Strike Rate]

ISI is #1 intelligence agency only on paper and some Pakistani social websites . Funny thing is that most Pakistanis actually believe that crap.


ISI to me is an incompetent agency which has failed to protect the lives of its citizens 1000000s of times , We also lost Siachin cause of the incompetence of ISI . Would you expect MI6, CIA and Mossad to have soo many failures like these?? Nope .

thats the issue we only get to know about the failures of agencies through media while the success always remain hidden from our eyes which is far far greater than the failures but the people involved in this biz know it all so they give the respect. A secret agent always die as an unknown hero for his country because his success is never highlighted.

 

[Strike Rate]

Everyone is excited by a report based on some obscure Pakistani source ? It sounds like baloney to me ..even Imran Khan seemed skeptical when asked if he thought there was Indian involvement.

Having said that , funding a registered political party is not the same as funding terror groups..

Do you think BBC is blind enough to trust Pakistani source to publish something on their paper and broadcast it live on their channel risking their credibility when relations of 2 countries and a big political party is involved? It's not Geo News or Zee News to make up the daily masala and sell it.

 

[akki]

oh dear!! I hope you're kidding on this ..

yeah actually i seriously hope and believe india never get involved in any of this issues...but only god or these respective organization knows

 

[RexRex]

Do you think BBC is blind enough to trust Pakistani source to publish something on their paper and broadcast it live on their channel risking their credibility when relations of 2 countries and a big political party is involved? It's not Geo News or Zee News to make up the daily masala and sell it.

If the BBC had confirmed it they would have mentioned it somewhere in the report but there's none of that.
Even the title is in quotes .. clearly the report is based on somebody alleging something.. for all we know the source could be the tinpot minister in the other thread who said RAW tried to sabotage the cricket tour ..