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Pakistan's ODI openers remain miles behind other teams

Abdullah719

T20I Captain
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To think that this list includes Sharjeel's output - take him out and the run-rate will drop even more.

And I don't think Shehzad and Kamran are the answer.

Pakistan need to try other options, we can not settle for mediocrity.
 
Good thread. Hope Inzi observes it for a change. Opening is our major problem if Sharjeel is gone. We need to get openers
 
Yeah problem with Shehzad is he plays for himself first and eats too many balls. Used to be a diffrent player during his u-19 days.
Kami is good for 30 - 40s at max. Thats why an avg of 26.
Hafeez like Shehzad plays for hismelf first.

Need to try some new openers. But i dont know many apart from Sharjeel.
 
Ahmed Shehzad in 1st two games: 36.1 at 72.3
Kamran Akmal in 1st two games: 34.4 at 91.3

Easy to see who has done better so far.
:kakmal
 
Looks very counter-intuitive to see these kind of run-rates in this T20 age. I remember Sachin-Sehwag days when 100 in 15 overs used to be the norm.
 
Does Shahzaib Hasan stand accused of any wrongdoing ? I thought he was only a whistleblower. If his case is cleared - then I'd draft him in and pair him with Babar Azam.

Or even Awais Zia if he's improved his technique and impresses in Pakistan Cup.
 
Surprised to see India's is so low. But tbh Rohit starts pretty slow (but more than makes up for it if he is still batting after a while).
 
Surprised to see India's is so low. But tbh Rohit starts pretty slow (but more than makes up for it if he is still batting after a while).

I am surprised to see that we are doing better than Pakistan. Watching Rohit and Dhawan in the first 10 overs has got to be my biggest nightmare. Let's hope things improve with Rahul.
 
Need both new openers for CT

Now only micky inzi and sarfaraz knows why didnt we give a single chance to fakhar zaman at the opening slot but its clear that shehzad and kami as ope ners are very pathetic and if they are selected to play again in odis, inzi is probably the biggest coward ive seen
So what are the options btw is there any chance we can get sharjeel back coz we need him desperately
 
"Azhar and Hafeez can become a good opening pair for us" - Mickey before CT:ma:inzi
 
Sadly the response to this will be to bring back Azhar who at best is a continuation of the same problems
 
I am surprised to see that we are doing better than Pakistan. Watching Rohit and Dhawan in the first 10 overs has got to be my biggest nightmare. Let's hope things improve with Rahul.

Lols what? You are comparing Rohit and Dhawan with our jokers?
We had only Sharjeel, rest are crap.
 
Looks very counter-intuitive to see these kind of run-rates in this T20 age. I remember Sachin-Sehwag days when 100 in 15 overs used to be the norm.

Yes. This seems to be the era with most useless openers.

Surprised to see India's is so low. But tbh Rohit starts pretty slow (but more than makes up for it if he is still batting after a while).

I am surprised to see that we are doing better than Pakistan. Watching Rohit and Dhawan in the first 10 overs has got to be my biggest nightmare. Let's hope things improve with Rahul.

Its not a black and white situation.

Its a bit more complex.

Sachin and Sehwag played in an era where only 1 ball was used.

Ball used to get soft so scoring used to get HARDER in middle overs. There was reverse too later on.

Par scores were still around 250-320. A score of 270-280 was not a potentially match losing score.

So it made MORE SENSE to attack upfront, get 100 off 15 overs and let others manage it if we lose wickets. Cos if we get 100 off 15 overs and others bat slowly, still 280-300 would be reached and we would win most games.

That formula DOES NOT work now.

2 new balls.

Reverse swing gone.

Flatter pitches.

You need to aim for 350 in most games. In that situation getting 300-330 can be match winning (assuming your bowlers don't screw it up real bad).

Now add to the fact that unlike our past team which had peak Yuvi, Raina, Dhoni in the middle order....now we are a top heavy team where ALL the heavy lifting has to be done by our top order or we will lose majority of the games.

Dhoni has declined...Yuvi is gone...Rahane is useless....Raina is our only reliable death hitter until the last year.

So now, our openers have a huge load on their shoulders. Scoring in middle overs is EASY which means if you start off right, you can cash in later. If you chase too much too soon and lose wickets, your team will end up with 280 odd and lose a lot of games.

That is why our openers bat take a more cautious route these days.

Of course, not saying they are as good as Sachin or Sehwag...but they don't have the liberty to bat like the Eng, NZ, Aus counterparts for the main reason OUR ODI BATTING STRATEGY SUCKS BIG TIME.

We are winning games because of the quality of a few batsmen...otherwise the strategy is absolutely pathetic.

Even in CT 2017, we will be taking Yuvi, Dhoni and Rahane in the team all of whom can give no guarantee of scoring.

In T20s, our strategy is even worse. The less said about it the better.

So that's the situation.

Our LOI mindset is a few years behind other teams.
 
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Does Shahzaib Hasan stand accused of any wrongdoing ? I thought he was only a whistleblower. If his case is cleared - then I'd draft him in and pair him with Babar Azam.

Or even Awais Zia if he's improved his technique and impresses in Pakistan Cup.

even if he is clean draft him based on what?

he did jack in PSL and most of all looked like a deer in the headlights
 
Lmao the funny part is that this would be atleast 0.1 lower if you take out Sharjeel's output

Also. 2010 onwards is too big of a sample set

whole generations of openers have come and gone

2015 WC onwards would be a good judge
 
I am surprised to see that we are doing better than Pakistan. Watching Rohit and Dhawan in the first 10 overs has got to be my biggest nightmare. Let's hope things improve with Rahul.

is rahul playing IPL? how is he doing?

very impressive must say. looked best batsman bar smith for me in the recent series (maybe pujara was better but rahul showed more initiative)
 
Yuvi has shown glimpses of being back to his old self but long way to go before one can get convinced he can play quality international bowlers with in the same way as in the past.

I ain't convinced.
 
even if he is clean draft him based on what?

he did jack in PSL and most of all looked like a deer in the headlights

He only played like 1 game before getting embroiled in the scandal.

He performed well in the Regional One Day Cup, averaging 40 at SR of 122.

Pakistan is sorely lacking powerhitters who can make an impact either at top of the order or in lower order.

Its for that reason why Hussain Talat should also be considered. He averaged 79 at SR of 90 in the same tournament.
 
He only played like 1 game before getting embroiled in the scandal.

He performed well in the Regional One Day Cup, averaging 40 at SR of 122.

Pakistan is sorely lacking powerhitters who can make an impact either at top of the order or in lower order.

Its for that reason why Hussain Talat should also be considered. He averaged 79 at SR of 90 in the same tournament.

Yaar Khurram Manzoor and Khalid Latif averaged 100 or sth in that competition at crazy SR (last year)

also in this One Day cup you mention he had ONE HUGE innings of 171 and failed to even cross 50 in the rest 5 matches. 4 scores were under TEN!!!
 
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Yaar Khurram Manzoor and Khalid Latif averaged 100 or sth in that competition at crazy SR (last year)

also in this One Day cup you mention he had ONE HUGE innings of 171 and failed to even cross 50 in the rest 5 matches. 4 scores were under TEN!!!

And both are now unselectable. Manzoor after the disaster last year and Latif after the fixing saga.

We have to move on and try anyone, the current lot aren't getting us anywhere.
 
And both are now unselectable. Manzoor after the disaster last year and Latif after the fixing saga.

We have to move on and try anyone, the current lot aren't getting us anywhere.

Current lot makes me feel like its 2007
 
Yaar Khurram Manzoor and Khalid Latif averaged 100 or sth in that competition at crazy SR (last year)

also in this One Day cup you mention he had ONE HUGE innings of 171 and failed to even cross 50 in the rest 5 matches. 4 scores were under TEN!!!

Remember Sharjeel was similarly inconsistent but after working with Arthur, Flower and Deano at IU we eventually got some consistency out of him.

Frankly we haven't the luxury of being picky given the dearth of powerhitters we have in domestic, we just have to maximise the output of those we have otherwise we'll continue to see stats like in the OP.

There's also Awais Zia who averaged 44 at SR of 99 in the Departmental One Day Cup, but I'd only consider him IF he's worked om his technical weaknesses as he looked a tape ball hack in 2012.
 
OZ are mid pack. These stats mean nothing.

I would be more interested to know 35-50 over stats. I am sure we are at the bottom.
 
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To think that this list includes Sharjeel's output - take him out and the run-rate will drop even more.

And I don't think Shehzad and Kamran are the answer.

Pakistan need to try other options, we can not settle for mediocrity.

Der se aaye durust aaye bhai... When I said these Ttfs will fail at int. stage again people were like No they have changed they performed so well at Domestic level and all that bull ****. Shehzaad and Kamran are verified and certified TTFS.
And people who supported their inclusion should hang their heads in shame.
 
Yeah problem with Shehzad is he plays for himself first and eats too many balls. Used to be a diffrent player during his u-19 days.
Kami is good for 30 - 40s at max. Thats why an avg of 26.
Hafeez like Shehzad plays for hismelf first.

Need to try some new openers. But i dont know many apart from Sharjeel.

I would take fakhar anyday over shehzad even if he is called a Hack by some people. He is not as bad as Shehzad
 
We have to persist with Kamran but really force Shehzad to change his approach.

Azhar Ali is not the solution either - he is not needed in the presence of Babar as the reliable bat.
 

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No surprise our openers are so poor at scoring when they consume dot balls up 80% of time and just look to hit boundaries, the fact our openers can do basics like rotate strike shows what a shambles we are.
 
the combos that i can think of keeping in mind sharjeel and shahzaib are gone. I will always go with a right/left combo which have always been successful

Imam ul Haq
Hammad Azam/Shadab Khan (rookie) as Imam will take some time and not flamboyant opener

Haris Sohail
Umar Akmal

Fakhar Zaman
Hafeez

Hussain Talat
Azhar ali
 
This is expected if you've been paying attention. India being so low on the list is strange however. I thought the mega-FTBs, Rohit Sharma and Virender Sehwag would have ensured that they were in the top three. Can someone do a breakdown of how Indian openers fared during the PP?
 
Sharjeel was beginning to help improve us in the powerplay, now he's gone were struggling to replace him . Shehzad plays too many dot balls and kami is inconsistent. Don't seem to be many opitions in domestic cricket.

Wouldn't mind Talat being given a chance.
 
is rahul playing IPL? how is he doing?

very impressive must say. looked best batsman bar smith for me in the recent series (maybe pujara was better but rahul showed more initiative)

He is not playing.
 
Shizzy and Kami shouldn't be anywhere near the team.

International Failures.
 
Der se aaye durust aaye bhai... When I said these Ttfs will fail at int. stage again people were like No they have changed they performed so well at Domestic level and all that bull ****. Shehzaad and Kamran are verified and certified TTFS.
And people who supported their inclusion should hang their heads in shame.

To dispel common myth. Ahmed Shehzad performed at domestic, but Akmal was high up in run aggregates (fifth on list) at a patheritc strike rate of 75
 
Its not a black and white situation.

Its a bit more complex.

Sachin and Sehwag played in an era where only 1 ball was used.

Ball used to get soft so scoring used to get HARDER in middle overs. There was reverse too later on.

Par scores were still around 250-320. A score of 270-280 was not a potentially match losing score.

So it made MORE SENSE to attack upfront, get 100 off 15 overs and let others manage it if we lose wickets. Cos if we get 100 off 15 overs and others bat slowly, still 280-300 would be reached and we would win most games.

That formula DOES NOT work now.

2 new balls.

Reverse swing gone.

Flatter pitches.

You need to aim for 350 in most games. In that situation getting 300-330 can be match winning (assuming your bowlers don't screw it up real bad).

Now add to the fact that unlike our past team which had peak Yuvi, Raina, Dhoni in the middle order....now we are a top heavy team where ALL the heavy lifting has to be done by our top order or we will lose majority of the games.

Dhoni has declined...Yuvi is gone...Rahane is useless....Raina is our only reliable death hitter until the last year.

So now, our openers have a huge load on their shoulders. Scoring in middle overs is EASY which means if you start off right, you can cash in later. If you chase too much too soon and lose wickets, your team will end up with 280 odd and lose a lot of games.

That is why our openers bat take a more cautious route these days.

Of course, not saying they are as good as Sachin or Sehwag...but they don't have the liberty to bat like the Eng, NZ, Aus counterparts for the main reason OUR ODI BATTING STRATEGY SUCKS BIG TIME.

We are winning games because of the quality of a few batsmen...otherwise the strategy is absolutely pathetic.

Even in CT 2017, we will be taking Yuvi, Dhoni and Rahane in the team all of whom can give no guarantee of scoring.

In T20s, our strategy is even worse. The less said about it the better.

So that's the situation.

Our LOI mindset is a few years behind other teams.

2 ball rule is quite recent, isn't it? But yeah, all your points do explain things quite well.
 
To dispel common myth. Ahmed Shehzad performed at domestic, but Akmal was high up in run aggregates (fifth on list) at a patheritc strike rate of 75

So now shehzad is in national team. everyone seen him flopped for the umpteenth time. even in next series he will flop. Then will be aend back to domestic level where he will make heaps of run.
Would you agaon want him for the national duties back?? A player is called TTF for a reason. He has been playong for past 7 years what has be achieved for the team ame a si gle game he won for pak?
 
So now shehzad is in national team. everyone seen him flopped for the umpteenth time. even in next series he will flop. Then will be aend back to domestic level where he will make heaps of run.
Would you agaon want him for the national duties back?? A player is called TTF for a reason. He has been playong for past 7 years what has be achieved for the team ame a si gle game he won for pak?

Maybe I phrased inelegantly. I meant to say Akmal did not earn his spot basis performance. Shehzad did, however his performance shows that he can be discarded regardless of what he does in domestic. There were other openers in that toplist who scored at a runrate of above 90 who deserved a shot.
 
What a Pity Yaar :-(


Sharjeel @40 SR 110

Shahzaib @37 SR 107


Would have been ideal opening partners in Champions Trophy.


Before 2011 WC we lost two World Class pacers and now we Lost two best available openers.


Shahzaib 2.0 was much fitter and much improved stroke maker. Shahzaib is one of the rare right hand batsman who could hit a six over cover and extra cover against 137+ deliveries. Has all the shots all round the round. Lately he had started taking singles aswell and playef with maturity and far better temperament.


On the other hand Sharjeel has understood his short comings and had started to take singles of deliveries which were not in his zone while being brutal against deliveries which were in his zone. His consistency had improved and he had very decent last 2 Odi series.



Huge Set back.
 
What a Pity Yaar :-(


Sharjeel @40 SR 110

Shahzaib @37 SR 107


Would have been ideal opening partners in Champions Trophy.


Before 2011 WC we lost two World Class pacers and now we Lost two best available openers.


Shahzaib 2.0 was much fitter and much improved stroke maker. Shahzaib is one of the rare right hand batsman who could hit a six over cover and extra cover against 137+ deliveries. Has all the shots all round the round. Lately he had started taking singles aswell and playef with maturity and far better temperament.


On the other hand Sharjeel has understood his short comings and had started to take singles of deliveries which were not in his zone while being brutal against deliveries which were in his zone. His consistency had improved and he had very decent last 2 Odi series.



Huge Set back.

Waiting for tribunal now.
 
We have Asia Cup next year and World Cup in 2019.

Sharjeel will be key.

Hafeez and Azhar will linger around for the WC so that's a write off.

Our T20 team is nearly the best in the world right now so good chance we can win Asia Cup.

WC 2023 is when we can look to challenge for the crown with a mature Babar and experienced captain Sarfraz and fresh faces and hopefully a quality fast bowling AR.
 
Hafeez and Azhar will linger around for the WC so that's a write off.

Our T20 team is nearly the best in the world right now so good chance we can win Asia Cup.

WC 2023 is when we can look to challenge for the crown with a mature Babar and experienced captain Sarfraz and fresh faces and hopefully a quality fast bowling AR.

I hope Azhar is gone forever after CT. Hafeez will also fail badly.
 
Fakhar has a spot nailed down for the time being but the other spot is a problem.

The run-rate is also not ideal.
 
Fakhar has a spot nailed down for the time being but the other spot is a problem.

The run-rate is also not ideal.

I dont like that ppl are condemning the Faheem Ashraf move, with the options of players he had its not the worst thing to do. Of course its not sustainable, if Pakistan bats second. I dont think the anwer is babar azam: they just need to keep trying with Sahibzada Farhan, Mukhtar, Awais Zia...whoever, but just make clear we wont settle for a sedate static batsman
 
At the time this thread was made I didn't see many opitions but Shazbinda and Umar Amin would be better opitions than Azhar and Imam.

Hope to see both dropped in the next series.
 
Pakistan should open with Rizwan and Fakhar in ODIs

Every team must learn to know how to chase totals of 320-330 in today's era. With anchors like Babar, Rizwan and Haris, there is no place for another anchor in Imam ul haq. He should be dropped and Fakhar should open with Rizwan.

Fakhar is inconsistent but when he gets going he can really change gear and make a big difference to a total. Imam is not capable of winning matches against top teams while Fakhar is certainly capable of that. He showed it in CT finals by posting 330 runs vs India.

Pakistan must play their two best bats, Babar and Rizwan in top 3 and Fakhar should be the other opener who has the ability to win games against even top sides on his day. Imam is not capable of winning ODI matches vs top 4-5 teams until the opposition bats poorly.

Discuss!
 
No.

It would further weaken our middle-order.

What Pakistan needs is Haris Sohail back in the side to strengthen the middle order. Imam misfiring today doesn't wash away a number of outstanding innings he has played in the past.
 
No.

It would further weaken our middle-order.

What Pakistan needs is Haris Sohail back in the side to strengthen the middle order. Imam misfiring today doesn't wash away a number of outstanding innings he has played in the past.

Outstanding innings like?
 
Outstanding innings like?

- match-winning hundred against Sri Lanka on debut
- 80 vs. Afghanistan, Asia Cup 2018 in a game Pakistan could have easily lost
- 101 vs. South Africa at Centurion 2018/19, a series in which he was man of the series
- 151 (131) vs. England at Bristol
- 100 against Bangladesh in the World Cup

6 out of 7 times Pakistan has won the game when Imam has scored a century.
 
No.

It would further weaken our middle-order.

What Pakistan needs is Haris Sohail back in the side to strengthen the middle order. Imam misfiring today doesn't wash away a number of outstanding innings he has played in the past.

I would keep rizwan were he is but i would play saud and not haris sohail.
 
I think imaam should continue batting at the oppening . Saud should bat at 4 Rizwan at 5 haider ali at 6
 
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