Pakistan's spin bowling is in a bad way in England

[Junaids]

These are the returns for the four spinners in the warm-up match at Derby:

INNINGS 1
Shadab Khan 16
Kashif Bhatti 15
Yasir Shah 16-2-40-2
Iftikhar Ahmed 5-1-13-0

INNINGS 2
Iftikhar Ahmed 31
Yasir Shah 0
Shadab Khan 3-0-6-0

INNINGS 3
Shadab Khan 39 not out
Yasir Shah 15-0-52-2

INNINGS 4
Iftikhar Ahmed 28 not out
Shadab Khan 17-1-104-0
Kashif Bhatti 13-2-47-0

It's pretty horrifying.

The only two to score any runs were Iftikhar and Shadab. And with the ball they were all pretty horrific. Yasir Shah took the most wickets, but only managed 2 maiden overs in 31 overs which tells us that his usual SENA problems persist - he's going to go for 4 runs an over.

I don't see how any of them can be picked as a specialist bowler currently. I'd almost be wondering whether Iftikhar or Shadab is most capable of batting at 7 and taking wickets on Day 5.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Iftikhar is awful.

Shadab is a serial bottler.

Yasir is terrible away from Asia

Only good one is Zafar Gohar, but he's too young according to Misbah.

 

[Junaids]

Must have been easy batting conditions by the end: in the Fourth Innings there were only 2 wickets in 88 overs!

 

[Kroll]

Yasir is a bonafide TTF in SENA, he had a good couple of Test matches in 2016 but has alarmingly regressed since, a lazy player with no work ethic. Shadab has to be picked over him.

 

[Junaids]

Iftikhar is awful.

Shadab is a serial bottler.

Yasir is terrible away from Asia

Only good one is Zafar Gohar, but he's too young according to Misbah.

Zafar Gohar is 25 and is similar to Kashif Bhatti, who is going to be 34 on Saturday.

We all know Misbah: he would never pick an improving 25 year old to do a job that a deteriorating 34 year old could do worse.

 

[ahmadharis1]

This was literally the perfect series for Zafar Gohar. Good track record and can offer some with the bat, perfect for #8. They even literally flew him out and didn't even bother keeping him long enough for a practice match? Idiotic

 

[Bullet Drive]

Zafar Gohar is 25 and is similar to Kashif Bhatti, who is going to be 34 on Saturday.

We all know Misbah: he would never pick an improving 25 year old to do a job that a deteriorating 34 year old could do worse.

He's done this many times.

He ruined the career of Umar Akmal too.

Many youngsters careers have been ruined due to this man.

 

[Zaz]

What do you expect spinners to do in england Tear through for fivefers n sixfers? The expectations are wrong not the spinners themselves

Unless ur a warne or murali ur not gonna do that and should be holding an end up n chipping in Not leading the attack

If pakistan manages the spinner like a prize horse they will be useful but if ur gonna use them as donkeys then....

 

[The Viper]

Shadab's figures with the ball were horrendous and he has not done enough to start. It looks like Yasir will start, which will be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Kroll]

Shadab's figures with the ball were horrendous and he has not done enough to start. It looks like Yasir will start, which will be a recipe for disaster.

Yes, baffling why Zafar Gohar wasn't in the 29 man squad. Oh wait, not old enough.

 

[angrypathan]

Must have been easy batting conditions by the end: in the Fourth Innings there were only 2 wickets in 88 overs!

Probably more to do with Shaheen only bowling 10 overs since he doesn't need to prove himself any further. The rest of the bowling attack on that team was average and they got expectedly punished

 

[Kashur_Kalkharab]

I don't know why there aren't many right arm off-spinners in Pakistan.People don't even want to bowl it now. Against left handers a right arm offspinner is always effective. They are good enough to get few down the leg side as well.

They do have an effect on the game to some extend, I would love to have a good off spinning allrounder in our test team.


Yasir probably doesn't have a good head for a legspinner.shadab is a good limited overs allrounder but not the lead spinner. Others are crap anyway.

 

[Titan24]

Definitely not many encouraging signs from the spinners.

I think we dont know much about how were the conditions where these warm up match were taking place and was their any assistance for spinners as it doesnt look like there was much. None of them is Warne or Murali but none of them is as non threatening as the numbers suggest. Still no excuse for such numbers but it would be better to judge with a complete picture.

Maybe we are looking too much into warm up matches and that too happening in venues where domestic cricket let alone international cricket is rarely played. I remember how Faheem got everyone hyped with his warm up game batting performance before CT17.

 

[Manunited18]

From what I've seen zafar goar has the most potential

 

[MMHS]

Yasir will play the Test for sure - it’s a warmup game therefore nothing conclusive, but 31-2-92-4 is damn good return for a leggi in UK - more so if the other option has figures of 20-1-110-0.

I don’t think PCT management is that idiot to pick lead spinner considering his batting contributions (though Yasir did score a hundred in Australia). For the fifth bowler’s spot, if they consider a second spinner, Shadab can be considered if they feel his batting is good enough to bat at 7. Again, other option for that spot is Iftekhar or Fakhar or Fawad, therefore he indeed has a chance.

As of now, I’ll play Fakhar at six and try to extract 25 overs from Azhar, Asad, Fakhar & Shan. If PAK is to win any Test, Max they can allow England to bat is 200 overs (better 170) and 600 runs (better 500), otherwise taking 20 wickets won’t win the Test, runs from bowlers won’t save it either.

On a good wicket, for a Test going though almost full distance, PAK should look 35 overs each from from Shaheen & Naseem; 45 from Abbas, 10-20 from the back-ups and rest from Yasir (between 20+25 to 25+ 35) - that’s between 170 to 205 overs and that’s maximum allowable limit for PAK batsmen.

Eventually, team has to play as an unit, bat well, take their catches and must avoid usual collapse in every alternate innings - it may be a decent series; otherwise Poms will roll over PCT with their bowling; batting for both sides are not that solid, therefore PAK do have good chances to win a Test or two, provided they can restrict England to maximum 575-625 range in combined innings.

 

[Saj]

As I stated in the other thread, it's poor planning when your second choice Test spinner hasn't even played a single international match.

The rest are bits and pieces bowlers who are not Test standard.

And if Yasir Shah gets injured, then what!

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yasir was so bad at OT last time round i shudder to think what he would be like in this series.

 

[TeamPak95]

If Zafar Gohar played in the previous Sri Lanka and Bangladesh test series (or even one of them) and performed even ok-ish, this literally would not be a problem. Had a solid, all-round QeA season. I don't want to sound like an expert here but this is just horrible management. At this point, it looks like 7 and 8 are gonna be Iftikhar and Yasir/Shadab.

 

[MMHS]

Yasir was so bad at OT last time round i shudder to think what he would be like in this series.

He will do much better this time, if he is fit - you can mark this post. He wasn’t fit for last few series, looked over weight and he was hurrying through the air. With Mushi around (and YK as well), I am sure he’ll use his look better and this is a horrible English line-up. Last time at Old Trafford, Cook & Root blasted him - Cook is not there and this is a different Root; also Yasir was used poorly - Misbah and PAK tank backed too much on him probably for his Lord’s heroics forgetting two critical facts - PAK was bowling first and it was Old Trafford, not Lord’s or Oval.

The OT wicket that I have seen against WIN in July, if they play on similar track in August, against this English lineup, Yasir might get another 10for, particularly if PAK wins the toss. That guy has taken 200+ wickets at six/Test rate for a reason.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

Where is zafar Gohar

 

[Abdullah]

I'm starting to lean towards
6 rizwan
7 shadab
8 Yasir

It we looking to bat first, that works.

But I would like the 4th quick option if we end up having to bowl first!!

Not an easy decision here..let's see after the next game

 

[Junaids]

I'm starting to lean towards
6 rizwan
7 shadab
8 Yasir

It we looking to bat first, that works.

But I would like the 4th quick option if we end up having to bowl first!!

Not an easy decision here..let's see after the next game

Two leggies?

Even Australia rarely paired Warne and MacGill - and even MacGill was vastly better than both Pakistanis!

 

[MMHS]

Two leggies?

Even Australia rarely paired Warne and MacGill - and even MacGill was vastly better than both Pakistanis!

Two leggis are very rare indeed, particularly if the second one is Shadab class; but PAK made a selection blunder by not picking Gohar when Haris was unavailable or even the new Offie guy Sajid. It’s a special consideration where Shadab is considered more of a batsman than second leggi.

Australia did play two leggis for sometimes - O’Reilly & Grimmett; therefore it’s not rare. However, Warne & McGill didn’t play many Tests together could be for another reason also - think in this line, for four bowling slots the second leggi McGill was fighting for a spot with another leggi by the name of Shane K Warne and few guys by the name of McGrath, CJ McDermott, Lee, Gillespie, Kasprowich, Riffell, Fleming, Bichel .... PAK’s second leggi will fight for a spot with Iftekhar, Sohail Khan, Imran Khan Sr., Kashif Bhatti..........

Shadab is considered here as a batsman who could bowl few overs - if Haris was there, Shadab might not have been considered for Test squad, let alone playing it. Looking at the wickets, it’s indeed an outside possibility, particularly if Shadab can score few more runs in next practice game.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Kashif, Yasir, Ifti Chacha, Shadab, Imad and Hafeez are not gonna fill you with enthusiasm. The only one promising spinner that was apart of the setup for a while has now gone back to Pakistan are bowling in the nets.

We are woefully under prepared for this tour specially looking at the whole squad overall.

 

[viveks]

So Yasir averages 23 in these games over the 2 innings. The criticism of him is that he was too expensive, yet you're suggesting Shadab should be picked who went at more than 6 an over in one innings while he went at just under 3. Clearly this is just an anti-Yasir Shah agenda if you're somehow blaming him here

 

[shamaan]

So Yasir averages 23 in these games over the 2 innings. The criticism of him is that he was too expensive, yet you're suggesting Shadab should be picked who went at more than 6 an over in one innings while he went at just under 3. Clearly this is just an anti-Yasir Shah agenda if you're somehow blaming him here

Tbh I always said shadab can play in the team if he does at 3 runs per over but it seems like hes not capable to do anyfink of that sorts becouse we know hes capable batesman.but yes I agree that anti yasir shah agenda my first choice was yasir and shadab in tests in spinning pitches and yasir and Shaheen if its abit swinging conditions

 

[shamaan]

Two leggies?

Even Australia rarely paired Warne and MacGill - and even MacGill was vastly better than both Pakistanis!

Dont matter if the greatest Australian team didnt play 2 leggies they need to do what they fink it's best

 

[shamaan]

I'm starting to lean towards
6 rizwan
7 shadab
8 Yasir

It we looking to bat first, that works.

But I would like the 4th quick option if we end up having to bowl first!!

Not an easy decision here..let's see after the next game

We can look to bat first but what if the toss doesnt go our way.whens the next game

 

[Geil]

Except Yasir shah & Wahah Riaz I dont remember any other Pak bowlers having the experience of playing on England Pitches, forget spin bowling I think the overall bowling of Pakistan will be tested with such less experienced in the bowling department, this England tour will be challenging for many bowlers especially for fast bowlers more as they are the ones who are expected to be dominating on England pitches unless the pitches magically goes dry which is not gonna happen IMO, spinner will play a sidekick role it is the fast bowlers who imo are the one"s on whom the series result depends on and not spinners or Yasir Shah

 

[shamaan]

Except Yasir shah & Wahah Riaz I dont remember any other Pak bowlers having the experience of playing on England Pitches, forget spin bowling I think the overall bowling of Pakistan will be tested with such less experienced in the bowling department, this England tour will be challenging for many bowlers especially for fast bowlers more as they are the ones who are expected to be dominating on England pitches unless the pitches magically goes dry which is not gonna happen IMO, spinner will play a sidekick role it is the fast bowlers who imo are the one"s on whom the series result depends on and not spinners or Yasir Shah

I think Pakistan and will look foward to playing in these conditions as they dont get to play on bowling wickets much often and I belive we are stronger is fast bowling than spinning department at the moment.the last match west indies vs england the ball was spinning

 

[Titan24]

Except Yasir shah & Wahah Riaz I dont remember any other Pak bowlers having the experience of playing on England Pitches, forget spin bowling I think the overall bowling of Pakistan will be tested with such less experienced in the bowling department, this England tour will be challenging for many bowlers especially for fast bowlers more as they are the ones who are expected to be dominating on England pitches unless the pitches magically goes dry which is not gonna happen IMO, spinner will play a sidekick role it is the fast bowlers who imo are the one"s on whom the series result depends on and not spinners or Yasir Shah

Abbas, Shadab, Faheem and Sohail Khan have played in England before. I agree with your point though of lack of experience as most of the bowlers dont have much experience in test cricket overall let alone in UK.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Based on their numbers alone, I'm not sure how anyone can pick shadab over yasir. Yasir has the better figures. Picking a spinner for his batting is a strategy that will fail spectacularly . Q

 

[Geil]

I think Pakistan and will look foward to playing in these conditions as they dont get to play on bowling wickets much often and I belive we are stronger is fast bowling than spinning department at the moment.the last match west indies vs england the ball was spinning

but still the spinners didnt win the match or had a bigger impact or say single handedly won the match for them in that 2nd test match west indies vs england, I still think that it has to be the fast bowlers who can win it for Pak and not spinners

Abbas, Shadab, Faheem and Sohail Khan have played in England before.

yeah I forgot the recent 2018 tour u r right Abbas, Shadab & Faheem played in that tour and Abbas was MOM in that lords test, but I am still skeptical about PAK fast bowling especially their bowling lengths, due to lack of experience cant really be sure how the likes of Shaheen and naseem shah considering they will be in the playing eleven will bowl on these pitches, atleast one could expect Abbas to be performing at worst decent on Eng pitches, IMO the bowling of shaheen & naseem shah and in general the fast bowlers will have bigger influence on the outcome of this series

 

[Saj]

Where is zafar Gohar

He was told he was no longer needed in the camp.

 

[Hasan123]

Yasir is a better test spinner than Shadab will ever be Junaids. No matter how many stats you try and use.

 

[shamaan]

but still the spinners didnt win the match or had a bigger impact or say single handedly won the match for them in that 2nd test match west indies vs england, I still think that it has to be the fast bowlers who can win it for Pak and not spinners



yeah I forgot the recent 2018 tour u r right Abbas, Shadab & Faheem played in that tour and Abbas was MOM in that lords test, but I am still skeptical about PAK fast bowling especially their bowling lengths, due to lack of experience cant really be sure how the likes of Shaheen and naseem shah considering they will be in the playing eleven will bowl on these pitches, atleast one could expect Abbas to be performing at worst decent on Eng pitches, IMO the bowling of shaheen & naseem shah and in general the fast bowlers will have bigger influence on the outcome of this series

Yes they didnt win them the match or so on becouse they are not thier to take wickets even if it is spinning they good for containing role.yrs I agree pakistan to win matches thier fast bowling will play big role

 

[Abdullah]

Two leggies?

Even Australia rarely paired Warne and MacGill - and even MacGill was vastly better than both Pakistanis!

I'm picking shadab as a batsman, and he can help out with yasirs bowling!!
Like I said not an easy decision

 

[Abdullah]

We can look to bat first but what if the toss doesnt go our way.whens the next game

Starts Friday

 

[Junaids]

Yasir is a better test spinner than Shadab will ever be Junaids. No matter how many stats you try and use.

Yes, but he’s still rubbish outside Asia - averages 63.50 after 12 Tests!!!!!!!

Neither can be a frontline bowler outside Asia. So I’d pick the one with 4 fifties in 9 Test innings ahead of the one with 1 fifty in 68 Test innings.

 

[shaz619]

Yes, but he’s still rubbish outside Asia - averages 63.50 after 12 Tests!!!!!!!

Neither can be a frontline bowler outside Asia. So I’d pick the one with 4 fifties in 9 Test innings ahead of the one with 1 fifty in 68 Test innings.

He has an average to begin with Junaids!

 

[shaz619]

I see no point in Shadab, if folk are after his batting may as well pick a specialist

 

[Arsal_AK]

I see no point in Shadab, if folk are after his batting may as well pick a specialist

The point is he has been better than the specialist in the warm-up games and gives you a sixth bowling option.

Fawad looks woeful and Naseem is all over him without even trying fully.

Shadab has a decent enough technique and is a much improved batsmen and he has shown he can get runs in these conditions before. He is a much better bet than both Fakhar and Iftikhar at hanging in there and getting some runs.

I'll see what he does in the next warm-up, beofre making a judgment on his bowling If he bowls well, I think he should make it. Fakhar teeing off could very well have happened to Yasir too, the way he is bowling these days. If you look at his wickets, it's mostly people trying to slog him off (cue Fawad), mainly because Naseem and Abbas were being relentless from the other end.

 

[Saj]

I don't get why some are saying pick Shadab because of his batting.

As far as I am aware, you pick a spinner based on the number if wickets he can take.

 

[Hasan123]

Yes, but he’s still rubbish outside Asia - averages 63.50 after 12 Tests!!!!!!!

Neither can be a frontline bowler outside Asia. So I’d pick the one with 4 fifties in 9 Test innings ahead of the one with 1 fifty in 68 Test innings.

Shadab won't do any better.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I don't get why some are saying pick Shadab because of his batting.

As far as I am aware, you pick a spinner based on the number if wickets he can take.

To be fair, it's just one poster with an overactive imagination and a bizarrely grim perspective on how the game should be played. Most of the others are only ridiculing him.

 

[Junaids]

I don't get why some are saying pick Shadab because of his batting.

As far as I am aware, you pick a spinner based on the number if wickets he can take.

Yasir Shah in SENA typically has innings figures of 45-5-190-3.

I would prefer to pick a fourth frontline quick in Amir, with Shadab just in the team for his runs and fielding and in case Pakistan defends 350 in Day 5 and needs a spinner on a crumbling wicket.

 

[Mamoon]

Yasir scored 194 runs at an average of 48 in the two Tests in Australia.

That is a lot more than what Shadab would have managed.

And more importantly, we also saw how your spinner scoring runs will not help you win (or save) matches as long as he is not taking wickets.

Yasir’s 48 average and second most runs after Babar were completely pointless because he averaged 100 with the ball.

When deciding between Yasir and Shadab in the upcoming England series, you have to ask yourself the following question - who is likely to take more wickets?

The answer to that question is Yasir, notwithstanding his glaring shortcomings.

The batting debate is pointless because neither of the two are good enough to have a monster series with the bat, so it boils down to their respective bowling capabilities, and Yasir is comfortably better than Shadab on that front.

Again - Yasir’s performance in Australia with the bat debunks [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] claims about the importance of your spinner scoring runs.

Yasir scored far more runs than he would have expected Shadab to score, but it didn’t help Pakistan at all because Yasir didn’t take wickets.

What was true for Test cricket 150 years ago is still true today - any runs scored by your bowlers are pointless unless they are taking wickets.

 

[Kroll]

Yasir doesn't deserve to get picked. This is a guy who has made no effort to improve his shortcomings and has let his fitness decline to alarming levels.

Shadab is yet to make a mark with his bowling but I'd rather see how he performs before passing judgement .