People who leave religion but become obsessed with it

[KingKhanWC]

If I decided the religion I follow is not true, I wouldn't spend another second thinking about it.

I find it strange there are people who leave religion, which is their right but then continue to spend hours and hours of their lives discussing the thing which they have now decided is just a fairy story or fake.

Are they just trying to console themselves?

Are they not sure they have made the right decision?

Are they on a 'crusade' to change everyone's mind?

I know there are some who have left but do discuss it because a topic has been opened or because it's in the news etc. I don't mean such people.
[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]

 

[miandadrules]

If I decided the religion I follow is not true, I wouldn't spend another second thinking about it.

I find it strange there are people who leave religion, which is their right but then continue to spend hours and hours of their lives discussing the thing which they have now decided is just a fairy story or fake.

Are they just trying to console themselves?

Are they not sure they have made the right decision?

Are they on a 'crusade' to change everyone's mind?

I know there are some who have left but do discuss it because a topic has been opened or because it's in the news etc. I don't mean such people.

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]

Firstly, let's make some distinctions.

Are you talking about a theological debate or a debate on human rights?

Or are you trying to obfuscate the two?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Firstly, let's make some distinctions.

Are you talking about a theological debate or a debate on human rights?

Or are you trying to obfuscate the two?

General debate whatever comments come to mind.

Why do you feel some people who leave a religion still continue to discuss it and discuss it at length?

 

[miandadrules]

General debate whatever comments come to mind.

Why do you feel some people who leave a religion still continue to discuss it and discuss it at length?

I don't speak for anyone else but myself.

On the human rights issue, if people use religion to justify such despicable actions such as slavery and the persecution of minorities I wouldn't hesitate to counter such ignorance.

On a theological level if you present your ideology as a fact without any substation than I equally won't hesitate to counter it.


I'm still waiting for all that concrete evidence you have researched from the other thread.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don't speak for anyone else but myself.

On the human rights issue, if people use religion to justify such despicable actions such as slavery and the persecution of minorities I wouldn't hesitate to counter such ignorance.

Are you saying human rights abuses only become important to you if they are related to religion? You should counter anyone or any group who violates or justifies abuse of human rights.

On a theological level if you present your ideology as a fact without any substation than I equally won't hesitate to counter it.


I'm still waiting for all that concrete evidence you have researched from the other thread.

Why? What difference does it make to you if someone believes something which you find to be false? Having spent many years of your life following this, wouldn't it be more sensible to not spend another second on it?

Let's leave things from other threads, Ive explained. If you dont accept it, then move on.

 

[Chrish]

Isn't the purpose of this thread to tell people to shut up so you won't have to hear the opinions that aren't pleasing to the ears?

 

[miandadrules]

Are you saying human rights abuses only become important to you if they are related to religion? You should counter anyone or any group who violates or justifies abuse of human rights.



Why? What difference does it make to you if someone believes something which you find to be false? Having spent many years of your life following this, wouldn't it be more sensible to not spend another second on it?

Let's leave things from other threads, Ive explained. If you dont accept it, then move on.

Where have I even hinted at the suggestion that I only care about human rights violations if they are only linked to religion?

You have deliberately created a strawman. You asked why an ex-Muslim would engage in a debate about religion and when I pointed out when it is used to justify violations you somehow have concluded that it is exclusive to that. Once again it shows the underhanded methods you chose to adopt.

The difference is that you are perpetuating falsehoods. All I ask for is proof of any claim. That is what any analytical mind would ask for. If you are posting something as a fact on a public forum than you should at the very least be able to substantiate it. I'm not asking any more of others than I am not willing to give of myself.

If you present something as a counter to a scientific fact and can't back it up, then if it is a field I have knowledge of I shall contribute.

I don't tell others what to believe, I simply present what I know. I've always maintained that I will defend your right to believe what ever nonsense you wish, because I care about actions. I have been a defender of human rights and humanitarian causes my entire adult life and work with numerous organisations, so I have deep interest in the field.

Let's not beat around the bush this is a futile attempt to shut down criticism that you simply can't counter.

I'm still waiting for the evidence not simply from the previous the previousthread but the countless others you have failed to substantiate.

 

[miandadrules]

Isn't the purpose of this thread to tell people to shut up so you won't have to hear the opinions that aren't pleasing to the ears?

Beat me to it.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Isn't the purpose of this thread to tell people to shut up so you won't have to hear the opinions that aren't pleasing to the ears?

Exactly.

Almost certain this exact thread almost was already made before as well.

To answer the OP, in the overwhelming majority of nations on Earth religion determines the laws, culture and society, and in nearly every one of those it does a dreadful, discriminatory job because humans suck and twist faith into something perverse to beat other people over the head with, oppress others with an so on.

Your point would be valid if when people left religion it instantly stopped having any impact or relevance in their lives, but in the vast majority of nations, this is not the case, hence many atheists frustrations and arguments. I DO agree some take it too far e.g people complaining about Happy Christmas at Christmas time and preferring to say holidays instead, which is just nit picking, but that constitutes an extreme minority.

And im not even atheist.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Isn't the purpose of this thread to tell people to shut up so you won't have to hear the opinions that aren't pleasing to the ears?

There wouldn't be a thread if this was the case.

My purpose is genuine, i cant understand why someone would leave a religion but continue wasting their time talking about it..

 

[KingKhanWC]

Where have I even hinted at the suggestion that I only care about human rights violations if they are only linked to religion?

You have deliberately created a strawman. You asked why an ex-Muslim would engage in a debate about religion and when I pointed out when it is used to justify violations you somehow have concluded that it is exclusive to that. Once again it shows the underhanded methods you chose to adopt.

I've not seen you post with as much emotion and length about human rights abuses in other threads which are not related to Islam. Maybe just my observation.

The difference is that you are perpetuating falsehoods. All I ask for is proof of any claim. That is what any analytical mind would ask for. If you are posting something as a fact on a public forum than you should at the very least be able to substantiate it. I'm not asking any more of others than I am not willing to give of myself.

If you present something as a counter to a scientific fact and can't back it up, then if it is a field I have knowledge of I shall contribute.

You made the claim first and I replied I've not seen such evidence.

I don't tell others what to believe, I simply present what I know. I've always maintained that I will defend your right to believe what ever nonsense you wish, because I care about actions. I have been a defender of human rights and humanitarian causes my entire adult life and work with numerous organisations, so I have deep interest in the field.

You're not the only one who has defended human rights and worked with organistions. This doesn't mean you can use your hate of religion to continually rant about it. Well you can but your real issues is obvious.

Let's not beat around the bush this is a futile attempt to shut down criticism that you simply can't counter.

I'm still waiting for the evidence not simply from the previous the previousthread but the countless others you have failed to substantiate.

You can keep waiting until the cows come home as you failed to provide your evidence when your made the claim first.

So in summary, you are a great defender of human rights and like to tell Muslims they are following nonsense which is why you spend time discussing religion esp the one your left.

Like Kissinger, Obama and Suu Ki, you should get the noble prize for peace.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Exactly.

Almost certain this exact thread almost was already made before as well.

To answer the OP, in the overwhelming majority of nations on Earth religion determines the laws, culture and society, and in nearly every one of those it does a dreadful, discriminatory job because humans suck and twist faith into something perverse to beat other people over the head with, oppress others with an so on.

Your point would be valid if when people left religion it instantly stopped having any impact or relevance in their lives, but in the vast majority of nations, this is not the case, hence many atheists frustrations and arguments. I DO agree some take it too far e.g people complaining about Happy Christmas at Christmas time and preferring to say holidays instead, which is just nit picking, but that constitutes an extreme minority.

And im not even atheist.

What relevance would it be to a Muslim who left Islam and lives in the UK? Apart from the odd nutter going around killing others by following ISIS etc. But more people die of the allergies.

 

[miandadrules]

I've not seen you must with as much emotion and length about human rights abuses in other threads which are not related to Islam. Maybe just my observation.



You made the claim first and I replied I've not seen such evidence.



You're not the only one who has defended human rights and worked with organistions. This doesn't mean you can use your hate of religion to continually rant about it. Well you can but your real issues is obvious.



You can keep waiting until the cows come home as you failed to provide your evidence when your made the claim first.

So in summary, you are a great defender of human rights and like to tell Muslims they are following nonsense which is why you spend time discussing religion esp the one your left.

Like Kissinger, Obama and Suu Ki, you should get the noble prize for peace.

Please show me a single instance of where I have brushed aside human rights violation of any group. Just a single sentence will do and I'll leave this forum forever.

This is a forum that it dominated by Pakistani Muslims hence the topics focus on those areas. Of course it's your "observations" because your entire purpose has been to create a strawman.

Evidence for what? You said you have done extensive research and when I asked for you to share you switched tact. That is your standard modus operandi.

Rant about what? If you claim your doctorine justifies acts such as slavery and persecution of minorities I will do more than rant.

What are these obvious real issues? Please let us all know.

Look at the pathetic ad hominem attack. What have I got in common with those individuals you have mentioned.

You talk about human rights but what have you stated about slavery on this forum?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Please show me a single instance of where I have brushed aside human rights violation of any group. Just a single sentence will do and I'll leave this forum forever.

This is a forum that it dominated by Pakistani Muslims hence the topics focus on those areas. Of course it's your "observations" because your entire purpose has been to create a strawman.

Evidence for what? You said you have done extensive research and when I asked for you to share you switched tact. That is your standard modus operandi.

Rant about what? If you claim your doctorine justifies acts such as slavery and persecution of minorities I will do more than rant.

What are these obvious real issues? Please let us all know.

Look at the pathetic ad hominem attack. What have I got in common with those individuals you have mentioned.

You talk about human rights but what have you stated about slavery on this forum?

Where did I mention you brushed aside human rights abuses? Yet you complain about others creating strawman arguments lol.

I wrote ive not witnessed the same passion for standing up against human rights abuses in other threads which are not related to Islam and where Muslims are the victims. Maybe you think it's Muslims let them die? I dont know you , so I am just asking the question. I have talked to people who are anti Islam who have said this to me.

You wrote, there is evidence of Muslim states which kill people for leaving Islam. I replied the evidence I've seen shows this is rare and if you look at the bigger picture the actual numbers are very very low and mostly in Saudi Arabia, one of dozens of nations. When you present your evidence only then I can reply knowing what you have shown me. Maybe I will agree with you?

You can rant but you probably wont change the mind of a SINGLE muslim regarding his belief. The reason, your rants or arguments are weak. I would leave Islam if you could convince me, no problem but you have come across as the typical Islamaphobic and nothing more.

I just think like them a lot of hot air but did nothing meaningful.

I believe slavery was part of economics in early Islam and although it was permissible to trade , the end objective was to free slaves and abolish slavery. This is what Islam says but you go and find some Muslim ruler in who kept slaves hundreds of years later and think your have cracked the religion. lol

There have been many more intelligent and articulate persons who have attempted to criticise, attack and suggest Islam shouldn't be followed, they failed. What makes you think you can do any better? lol

 

[miandadrules]

Where did I mention you brushed aside human rights abuses? Yet you complain about others creating strawman arguments lol.

I wrote ive not witnessed the same passion for standing up against human rights abuses in other threads which are not related to Islam and where Muslims are the victims. Maybe you think it's Muslims let them die? I dont know you , so I am just asking the question. I have talked to people who are anti Islam who have said this to me.

You wrote, there is evidence of Muslim states which kill people for leaving Islam. I replied the evidence I've seen shows this is rare and if you look at the bigger picture the actual numbers are very very low and mostly in Saudi Arabia, one of dozens of nations. When you present your evidence only then I can reply knowing what you have shown me. Maybe I will agree with you?

You can rant but you probably wont change the mind of a SINGLE muslim regarding his belief. The reason, your rants or arguments are weak. I would leave Islam if you could convince me, no problem but you have come across as the typical Islamaphobic and nothing more.

I just think like them a lot of hot air but did nothing meaningful.

I believe slavery was part of economics in early Islam and although it was permissible to trade , the end objective was to free slaves and abolish slavery. This is what Islam says but you go and find some Muslim ruler in who kept slaves hundreds of years later and think your have cracked the religion. lol

There have been many more intelligent and articulate persons who have attempted to criticise, attack and suggest Islam shouldn't be followed, they failed. What makes you think you can do any better? lol

What a classless comment. I think they are Muslim, so let them die? Any proof?

Here's a suggestion why don't you go through my post history before making such accusations. Any respectable individual would at least have the decency to do that.

You haven't seen any passion? Maybe when I make a defence agaibst Muslim persecution on this site I get very little counter argument. Most agree with that stance, as opposed to when I highlight Muslim transgressions. Please show a single instance where I have failed to counter those who opposed my standing up for Muslim rights?

You have talked, you have seen, you have researched. Yet you can't substantiate a single thing.

You want evidence? Well, there are 13 Muslim states that have the death penalty for apostasy. I provided you with a research paper which showed evidence of support of such actions across different Muslim states. Now your counter to this is that you have seen apostates openly in Muslim lands. Provide some evidence of open apostates who haven't been persecuted.

Your very assumption that despite the states having the death penalty in place for apostasy, that the fact very few cases come to light ignores the fact that such instances don't come to light due to the institutionalised threat.

You liberally use the term Islamophobe to shut down criticism of the doctrine and belittle the suffering millions who are victims of anti-Muslim bigotry. Yet you and your ilk care little for them as long as it furthers your own agenda.

I don't need the validation of others to justify what I stand for. Like I have said numerous times I don't care what people believe and I defend their right to their beliefs as long it doesn't impinge on the rights of others.

I don't care wether you leave Islam or not. You will still have you ignorant mindset and skewed moral compass. Whether you leave the faith or not I still wouldn't want to be associated with you in any way, shape or form unless there was drastic overhaul of your conduct. I'm not here to proselytise, unlike the religious mindset.

So you accept slavery was acceptable?

Islam abolished slavery?

You also said the exploitation of female slaves was needed to integrate them in to society right?

I never claimed to be intelligent or articulate but I think the irony of you saying that has been lost. But that's just another attack to shut down the discussion. If I am so insignificant why did you feel the need to create an entire thread to address it?

 

[KingKhanWC]

What a classless comment. I think they are Muslim, so let them die? Any proof?

Here's a suggestion why don't you go through my post history before making such accusations. Any respectable individual would at least have the decency to do that.

You haven't seen any passion? Maybe when I make a defence agaibst Muslim persecution on this site I get very little counter argument. Most agree with that stance, as opposed to when I highlight Muslim transgressions. Please show a single instance where I have failed to counter those who opposed my standing up for Muslim rights?

You have talked, you have seen, you have researched. Yet you can't substantiate a single thing.

You want evidence? Well, there are 13 Muslim states that have the death penalty for apostasy. I provided you with a research paper which showed evidence of support of such actions across different Muslim states. Now your counter to this is that you have seen apostates openly in Muslim lands. Provide some evidence of open apostates who haven't been persecuted.

Your very assumption that despite the states having the death penalty in place for apostasy, that the fact very few cases come to light ignores the fact that such instances don't come to light due to the institutionalised threat.

You liberally use the term Islamophobe to shut down criticism of the doctrine and belittle the suffering millions who are victims of anti-Muslim bigotry. Yet you and your ilk care little for them as long as it furthers your own agenda.

I don't need the validation of others to justify what I stand for. Like I have said numerous times I don't care what people believe and I defend their right to their beliefs as long it doesn't impinge on the rights of others.

I don't care wether you leave Islam or not. You will still have you ignorant mindset and skewed moral compass. Whether you leave the faith or not I still wouldn't want to be associated with you in any way, shape or form unless there was drastic overhaul of your conduct. I'm not here to proselytise, unlike the religious mindset.

So you accept slavery was acceptable?

Islam abolished slavery?

You also said the exploitation of female slaves was needed to integrate them in to society right?

I never claimed to be intelligent or articulate but I think the irony of you saying that has been lost. But that's just another attack to shut down the discussion. If I am so insignificant why did you feel the need to create an entire thread to address it?

I was merely asking the question. As I wrote, many anti-Islam person also dont care if Muslims are killed or persecuted. You may wish for me to go through your history but I'd rather not waste my time as you waste your time criticisiing Islam when it makes no difference to any Muslim. It wasnt an accusation it was a question.

The countries surveyed that expressly make apostasy a capital offense are Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. However, only a small number of cases showing the application of these capital punishment laws were identified. Only two cases were identified that resulted in conviction for religious conversion—one in Iran in 1994 and another in Sudan in 2014. The country surveys also indicate that apostasy laws are frequently used to charge persons for acts other than conversion. For example, in Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Yemen, individuals were charged with apostasy for their writings or comments made on social media. Of the countries researched, it appears that Iran is the only one that has executed a person convicted of apostasy to date.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/

So IF this report is correct it shows people are not routinely put to death for apostasy as in leaving Islam. There are 50 Muslim majority nations on the planet with estimates of around near 2 billion Muslims. If you still think this is a big problem in the Muslim world then you are not even worth debating.

In the other thread I wrote it's a choice to follow Islam and you quickly jumped in with both feet asking a ridicolous question implying they dont leave because they will get killed and further clarified by the state. The report I have provided suggests you are clueless and are just doing what the likes of Pamela Geller and Tommy Robinson do which is why I bought up the idea of Islamaphobia.

As for slavery Islam says free the slaves. You cannot deny this, what some Muslims do has nothing to do with the doctrine.

 

[Heisenberg]

I was merely asking the question. As I wrote, many anti-Islam person also dont care if Muslims are killed or persecuted. You may wish for me to go through your history but I'd rather not waste my time as you waste your time criticisiing Islam when it makes no difference to any Muslim. It wasnt an accusation it was a question.

Anti Islamic people aren't anti Muslim. It's an outright lie to claim anti Islamic people do not care if Muslims are killed. Most of these people who feel strongly about the impact of Islamic ideas are ex Muslims and they absolutely do care about their families who happen to be Muslims. Unless of course your idea was to assume that these people must be morally corrupt because how could they leave the religion otherwise right?

An easy explanation - Islam: a set of outdated ideas and ridiculous myths/legends. Muslims: real human beings.

 

[Sidilicious]

If I decided the religion I follow is not true, I wouldn't spend another second thinking about it.

I find it strange there are people who leave religion, which is their right but then continue to spend hours and hours of their lives discussing the thing which they have now decided is just a fairy story or fake.

Are they just trying to console themselves?

Are they not sure they have made the right decision?

Are they on a 'crusade' to change everyone's mind?

I know there are some who have left but do discuss it because a topic has been opened or because it's in the news etc. I don't mean such people.

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]

Do you like to tell people about your religion when you get a chance? Or when someone expresses an opinion on religion, do you like to mention what your religion believes (in context of the conversation)?

Well, I like to point out why I believe none of the religions make sense and are all man made. And use my argument to prove so.

 

[Robert]

If I decided the religion I follow is not true, I wouldn't spend another second thinking about it.

I find it strange there are people who leave religion, which is their right but then continue to spend hours and hours of their lives discussing the thing which they have now decided is just a fairy story or fake.

Are they just trying to console themselves?

Are they not sure they have made the right decision?

Are they on a 'crusade' to change everyone's mind?

I know there are some who have left but do discuss it because a topic has been opened or because it's in the news etc. I don't mean such people.

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]

You've heard of the zeal of the convert. There's also the zeal of the deconvert.

It took a me three decades to deprogrammed myself of the Christianity I had been taught. Now my war with religion is over.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

You've heard of the zeal of the convert. There's also the zeal of the deconvert.

It took a me three decades to deprogrammed myself of the Christianity I had been taught. Now my war with religion is over.

Did you ever consider going to therapy.... serious question. Three decades is an awfully long time.

 

[DW44]

Hard to forget about it because I live in Pakistan where leaving the religion doesn't limit my exposure to it in any way, nor does it lessen the religion's impact on my day to day life. It's part of the law and I don't think any Brit can imagine the extent to which it plays a role in people's day to day lives.

 

[Robert]

Did you ever consider going to therapy.... serious question. Three decades is an awfully long time.

I did seek therapy, though for another issue. Oddly enough, the therapist taught me a more flexible concept of God which I'm happy with.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You've heard of the zeal of the convert. There's also the zeal of the deconvert.

It took a me three decades to deprogrammed myself of the Christianity I had been taught. Now my war with religion is over.

That answer rings true. I can imagine that someone who lost faith would go through a period of soul searching, but ultimately you'd want to get on with your life and make the most of it. Even if I lived in a country where the country was run along an ideology I didn't agree with, I'd probably try and move somewhere more in line with my own philosophy rather than spend my precious time raging against the system. What a miserable life that would make. I feel sorry for such people caught up in their own personal hell.

 

[Bewal Express]

The people that leave a religion in this case Islam are desperate to justify their flight and are keen for other "converts" to their reasons and justifications. Ultimately, religion is faith in the unknown and until we die we wont know whether we were right to put our faith in religion X, Y or Z. A couple of years ago, i went to my mums grave and asked her to pray for something that at point looked highly unlikely to happen. A few weeks later, what i prayed for did actually happen, as a religious person i believe that it had something to do with my mums prayers but a rationalist would argue that it was just meant happen.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

They can't help it. Gotta fill the void somehow.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One thing which stands out is that those who profess to leave religion become so obsessed with it they barely comment on any other topic. It's a common feature on Pakistani forums, but I wonder if it's the same with other religions as well? Do you get former Hindus piping up incessantly on Indian forums for example?

I think the reason we get it with Pakistani forums is because Islam itself is a missionary religion, and to oppose it you almost need a counter movement of atheist zealots.

 

[shaz619]

They have certain beliefs which they are passionate about just like Religious folk, but in the end I don't see the point in the debates from both sides because one will remain faithless while the other is a believer; and neither can convince the other to change their views so why not just go KFC instead and get a 3 piece meal.

Also, there are many criticisms directed at muslims with regards to slavery etc I've seen many muslims come out and say that this is wrong; but the atheists try to convince them that it's not true because you don't really believe that being a muslim. What exactly are we trying to achieve there ? don't people stop to think this would only elevate Islamaphobia and the far rights narrative in general.

Likewise, muslims generally reject everything Daesh do in the name of Islam whilst the non believers attempt to convince everyone that everything Daesh do is indeed the inspiration of authentic Islamic beliefs. What they don't realise is this ends up helping the agenda of extremist peoples.

I respect both non-believers and believers in terms of how they choose to live their lives so long no one is hurting people, but these fights between the two in the grand scheme are generally not very productive.

 

[Black Zero]

If someone tries to set the facts straight ...i would not call it an obsession...

Most of the religion related threads are started by religious friends and then ex try to show the full picture...
Threads opened by ex generally revolve around universal human rights...

 

[ToeCrusher2]

If religious people can consider it their duty to give dawah to every one and spread the message of their religion, so that every one can follow the "right" path, then I don't see anything wrong in a person who left a particular religion and now considers it their duty to educate others, so they can also follow him and follow their right path. If you got no problem with dawah then you shouldn't have any problem with the anti dawah

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I did seek therapy, though for another issue. Oddly enough, the therapist taught me a more flexible concept of God which I'm happy with.

That's good.... deconvert zealots ought to give it a try, it will help them move on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If religious people can consider it their duty to give dawah to every one and spread the message of their religion, so that every one can follow the "right" path, then I don't see anything wrong in a person who left a particular religion and now considers it their duty to educate others, so they can also follow him and follow their right path. If you got no problem with dawah then you shouldn't have any problem with the anti dawah

Well that is the point I was making, that both should be considered zealots preaching to the masses to an obsessive extent. I don't really see any problem with it, how people want to spend their time is up to them. Some people like to watch box sets of Sopranos, some people like to chill at the beach, others like to bang on about religion 24/7.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think such people should be ignored. They thrive on attention and causing offence. Let them be killed by the silent treatment.

 

[James]

Great posts from [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION].

 

[WC-Passion]

There's nothing wrong with discussing something you don't believe in. I don't understand what the point of making the thread was.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You've heard of the zeal of the convert. There's also the zeal of the deconvert.

It took a me three decades to deprogrammed myself of the Christianity I had been taught. Now my war with religion is over.

3 decades is an awful long time when you realised what you were following was wrong or more accurately it took your 3 decades to convince yourself its false. I don't think others who leave religion have the same lengthy issue.

 

[PakLFC]

Apostates find it their duty to talk people out of their former religion. If they have the right to reject then others have the right to believe as well. Apostates feel that having supposedly liberated themselves from the shackles of organised religion they can be rude to others without feeling guilty. If anyone leaves their religion then it is a very personal choice. They must respect that most people do believe in some form of a creator.

 

[James]

3 decades is an awful long time when you realised what you were following was wrong or more accurately it took your 3 decades to convince yourself its false. I don't think others who leave religion have the same lengthy issue.

I think what he's suggesting is - criticism of the religion that one used to follow, and being "anti" that religion, are themselves a part of the deprogramming process. In this regard he would be directly addressing your OP.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I think what he's suggesting is - criticism of the religion that one used to follow, and being "anti" that religion, are themselves a part of the deprogramming process. In this regard he would be directly addressing your OP.

Thanks James.

Im not even convinced there needs to be deprogramming process. Once you believe what you were following was false, this should be enough to move on? If there needs to be process of criticising afterwards then maybe you are not fully convinced of your rejection?

 

[Black Zero]

Thanks James.

Im not even convinced there needs to be deprogramming process. Once you believe what you were following was false, this should be enough to move on? If there needs to be process of criticising afterwards then maybe you are not fully convinced of your rejection?

move on to what?
90%+ of world population is religious...

for ex-muslims, 99.9% of their relatives are still believers...and they (believers) always try to shower you with their religious bliss/ignorance, all day long.

 

[KingKhanWC]

move on to what?
90%+ of world population is religious...

for ex-muslims, 99.9% of their relatives are still believers...and they (believers) always try to shower you with their religious bliss/ignorance, all day long.

Move to become a person who doesnt believe in any religion.

I dont believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity, which is why I dont spend my time discussing it. If a news story to the fore with any religion connected, fine but to spend time trying to criticise or debunk a religion is a waste of time isnt it?

 

[Black Zero]

Move to become a person who doesnt believe in any religion.

I dont believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity, which is why I dont spend my time discussing it. If a news story to the fore with any religion connected, fine but to spend time trying to criticise or debunk a religion is a waste of time isnt it?

with the exception of very few, ex-believers by definition stopped believing in religion so it seems that they have moved on.

Any one should be able to criticize anything and ex-believers got a unique perspective which make them a worthy critics.

I have a deep interest in Paganism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism (and other various cults) but it does not mean that I am unsure about my rejection of these beliefs-systems.

it's not a waste of time to study religions or religious people...

even from entertainment perspective, GoT is absolutely nothing in comparison...

Sample description of an angel:

Anas Ibn Maalik, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said: "I have been granted permission to speak to an angel, one of the bearers of the Throne. His feet are in the lowest earth and the Throne is resting on his horn. The distance from his earlobe to his shoulder is like that of a bird flying for seven hundred years. That angel says, 'Glory be to You, wherever You are. '" [At-Tabaraani]

 

[KingKhanWC]

with the exception of very few, ex-believers by definition stopped believing in religion so it seems that they have moved on.

Any one should be able to criticize anything and ex-believers got a unique perspective which make them a worthy critics.

I have a deep interest in Paganism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism (and other various cults) but it does not mean that I am unsure about my rejection of these beliefs-systems.

it's not a waste of time to study religions or religious people...

even from entertainment perspective, GoT is absolutely nothing in comparison...

Sample description of an angel:

Sure they can criticise but their 'unique perspective' doesn't mean they are correct in their criticism and I've never come across a single Ex-Muslim who could present a good argument from his/her 'unique perspective'.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Quite simple answer to OP's question.

People who leave religion have done so thoughtfully. Most people are born into some religion, and so to leave requires thought and analysis, which it can be assumed these people are more inherently attuned to.

So, when religion comes up, especially on a forum where the whole point of visiting is to engage in conversation and debate (regardless of topic), it is no wonder that those that have left religion are vocal about their thoughts and feelings.

The above apart, religion-fueled intolerance and violence is at the root of many social evils so it is anyway a topic worth discussing and top of mind for everyone, not just those that have left religion.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Apostates find it their duty to talk people out of their former religion. If they have the right to reject then others have the right to believe as well. Apostates feel that having supposedly liberated themselves from the shackles of organised religion they can be rude to others without feeling guilty. If anyone leaves their religion then it is a very personal choice. They must respect that most people do believe in some form of a creator.

In general, I agree with the spirit of your message. Believing or not believing in a religion is a personal matter, and is best kept so. However, it is religious people that make religion a public matter and bring their religiosity into the public domain. Once you bring something into the public domain, it's open for debate. And if your religion has negative consequence on society (which most religions have, or have had at some point in history), then of course it'll be open to questioning, ridicule, etc. A great solution would be if all religious people practiced their religion at home, and whether you are muslim, hindu, christian was never even discussed or made apparent in public.

It is also worth noting that religious people are notoriously thin skinned when their religion is called into question, and hypocritically insulting towards religions other than theirs. Think about how insensitive and insulting even everyday Muslims can be (let alone mullahs) towards hindus, jews, christians, ahmadis, shias, etc.

To a non-believer, it seems laughable when a religious person asks for respect for their belief from a non-believer, when that same person shows no respect towards other beliefs.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think there should be any problem with people posting incessantly about the evils of religion, but there needs to be some balance. When posters keep trilling about minorities being killed in Pakistan, then stay silent when Buddhists are killing minorities in Myanmar then their bias becomes clear. One such member had nothing to say at all on the subject until there was a demonstration in Pakistan against the ethnic cleansing in Burma, and then he promptly found a way to castigate the demonstrators instead. That was his only contribution I believe on that subject which the whole world is up in arms about.

 

[JaDed]

From [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] :

Its similar to how people leave the country for better opportunities but become obsessed with it inspite being so far from it.

 

[PakLFC]

In general, I agree with the spirit of your message. Believing or not believing in a religion is a personal matter, and is best kept so. However, it is religious people that make religion a public matter and bring their religiosity into the public domain. Once you bring something into the public domain, it's open for debate. And if your religion has negative consequence on society (which most religions have, or have had at some point in history), then of course it'll be open to questioning, ridicule, etc. A great solution would be if all religious people practiced their religion at home, and whether you are muslim, hindu, christian was never even discussed or made apparent in public.

It is also worth noting that religious people are notoriously thin skinned when their religion is called into question, and hypocritically insulting towards religions other than theirs. Think about how insensitive and insulting even everyday Muslims can be (let alone mullahs) towards hindus, jews, christians, ahmadis, shias, etc.

To a non-believer, it seems laughable when a religious person asks for respect for their belief from a non-believer, when that same person shows no respect towards other beliefs.

I do not mind an exchange of views. Wearing a hijab or turban can be questioned but believers must not be abused or threatened in any way. Nothing is greater then the law of the country that must be accepted and respected by everyone. If it allows religious expression or symbolism outdoors then I have no issue with it. Most religious people do have respect towards other religions only that tolerance will never make news. Actually it is non Muslim's who are mostly picking fights with Muslim people with silly accusations of refusing to integrate whatever that means.You have the right to question any religious belief but not to insult it's religious figures knowing full well that it will cause great resentment. It seems acceptable to attack Islamic symbols in particular yet we can't even question the holocaust in Europe, that is what I call hypocrisy. Atheists deliberately attack religious people's sentiments than cry foul play when the show is on the other foot. Question is why do atheists feel the need to attack religions with Islam and Muslim's being their chosen target?

 

[James]

Thanks James.

Im not even convinced there needs to be deprogramming process. Once you believe what you were following was false, this should be enough to move on? If there needs to be process of criticising afterwards then maybe you are not fully convinced of your rejection?

Religion lies at the core of human existence. Most people are brought up at least around a religion, often within a religion. So losing one's religion could be seen as similar to experiencing a close bereavement. And just like the bereavement of a person, the bereavement of a belief system will impact different people in different ways. Some people get over it overnight; some people take a week to come to terms with it and then return to normal life; but others take years; and some even take a lifetime.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Religion lies at the core of human existence. Most people are brought up at least around a religion, often within a religion. So losing one's religion could be seen as similar to experiencing a close bereavement. And just like the bereavement of a person, the bereavement of a belief system will impact different people in different ways. Some people get over it overnight; some people take a week to come to terms with it and then return to normal life; but others take years; and some even take a lifetime.

Fair point James. I've read [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] saying he's found something else which gives him meaning and reason for existance, so I guess if you can replace on belief with another, it can also make it easir to move on. Robert is a great example, it's took him so long to fully move on yet you never see him ranting and raving about religion being bad, false etc.. I wish others were like him.

 

[CricFan2012]

To warn others to not waste their time with fairytales.

 

[KingKhanWC]

To warn others to not waste their time with fairytales.

Nobody has ever generated a single strong argument to warn me or convince me its a fairytale. I have spent hours reading the views or people who have left religion and athiests. I can honestlly say nothing has made me think apart from the question 'why is there suffering' but it has only helped me reaffirm my own belief.

Religous people are able to convert many while athiests struggle to convince people to leave religion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

To warn others to not waste their time with fairytales.

If you spend all your time blathering on about elves and pixies then you are living in a virtual fairytale of your own making ironically.

 

[CricFan2012]

If you spend all your time blathering on about elves and pixies then you are living in a virtual fairytale of your own making ironically.

I personally do not care about other people's faiths, but some atheists choose to, but note, there is more hatred from religious folks against atheists. You can get killed for those views.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

To warn others to not waste their time with fairytales.

What are you saying my current favorite poster on PP, you don't believe in religion?

 

[CricFan2012]

What are you saying my current favorite poster on PP, you don't believe in religion?

Bro sorry but can't believe in something i cant see, like i dont believe in unicorns

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Bro sorry but can't believe in something i cant see, like i dont believe in unicorns

No need to say sorry bro, the fact that you don't believe in religion makes you even more likable as a poster but you are a fan of babar azam, so you lose some points

 

[Black Zero]

Nobody has ever generated a single strong argument to warn me or convince me its a fairytale. I have spent hours reading the views or people who have left religion and athiests. I can honestlly say nothing has made me think apart from the question 'why is there suffering' but it has only helped me reaffirm my own belief.

Religous people are able to convert many while athiests struggle to convince people to leave religion.

I can guarantee "nobody" and "argument" are not to blame here.

Crtitical thinking is one of the hardest things and believing is just the opposite....go to any isloted tribe and one will find each and every tribesmen to be a true believer.

Even in much sophisticated societies, around 90% would be believer of some sort.

Consider:
God is invisible
Jibrael and all other angels are invisible, especially two sitting on shoulders.
Jinns are invisible
..do we have pattern??


Believe in Judgement day blindly.
Believe in life after death, again blindly.

And time to point out some cool stuff:

Winged horse
Dajjal trapped on an island
Gog and Magog are also trapped somewhere
Haroot and Maroot - romantic angels


Only religion can sell these kind of insurance policies.

=====================================
I can point to several blundders in fictional stories which ended up in quran cause some rabbi ( we know the name of rabbi) did some translation blunders in his book (we know the name of book). Which proves without any doubt that atleast some part of Quran is the word of that rabbi.

(Well, I would assume that you already know the name of that rabbi, his book and the translation blunders)

Anyway, who cares...believers will be believers,
And non believers cannot provide comfort that a belief system provides to a needy.

And, I know, you are not convinced a bit.

 

[yasir]

General debate whatever comments come to mind.

Why do you feel some people who leave a religion still continue to discuss it and discuss it at length?

Because religion is a political philosophy, it is still shaping the political and social policies which effects everybody...When a certain religion or belief system becomes irrelevant to todays political policies, nobody discusses it...We live in a small planet, where communities are shrinking ever so quickly. Morality, social and political systems will converge rather than diverge...Debate is inevitable, you cannot run or hide, protectionism can only go so far...If you have a technique like Hafeez, you cannot hide forever, no matter how much PCB protects you

 

[Sidilicious]

I do not mind an exchange of views. Wearing a hijab or turban can be questioned but believers must not be abused or threatened in any way. Nothing is greater then the law of the country that must be accepted and respected by everyone. If it allows religious expression or symbolism outdoors then I have no issue with it. Most religious people do have respect towards other religions only that tolerance will never make news. Actually it is non Muslim's who are mostly picking fights with Muslim people with silly accusations of refusing to integrate whatever that means.You have the right to question any religious belief but not to insult it's religious figures knowing full well that it will cause great resentment. It seems acceptable to attack Islamic symbols in particular yet we can't even question the holocaust in Europe, that is what I call hypocrisy. Atheists deliberately attack religious people's sentiments than cry foul play when the show is on the other foot. Question is why do atheists feel the need to attack religions with Islam and Muslim's being their chosen target?

If religious people did not get offended at every small comment, we could possibly have a good debate. But its the religious one who claim offence at every juncture.

Just look at this OP.

On top, when you believe in a religion, you reject all the other religions except the one you believe in. So you have rejected the other thousands of religions that are there and have been in the past.

As atheists, we just reject one more!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I personally do not care about other people's faiths, but some atheists choose to, but note, there is more hatred from religious folks against atheists. You can get killed for those views.

I think hatred is on both sides, killing isn't a measure of hatred. The world is full of killing apparatus, and you could argue that the weapons of mass destruction are used more by atheists or their ideological representatives. The responsibility should ultimately lie with the state, if the state protects your interests then you are less likely to get vigilantes or terrorists acting illegally.

 

[Jadz]

Everyone ought to be allowed to express their views about anything. People learn, grow and develop when they encounter difference of opinion, when their ideas and beliefs are challenged, questioned and even opposed.

Through discussion, debate and intelligent discourse compromise, if not agreement, can be reached. However, what I have discovered, over the course of time, is a sense of fear amongst some Muslims, when they are confronted by people who either disagree with their interpretation of Islam, or who reject it (Islam) altogether. Perhaps this is because their faith is based upon emotion and not the intellect.

As human beings, we should love to hear different, as well as opposing, opinions, because it is in this way that we attain knowledge of one another, and it is also in this way that we avoid creating enemies, conflict, violence and war. Any discussion ought to be characterised with beautiful manners and the greatest respect, because when all is said and done, our common humanity precedes all of our differences.

The Early Muslims, who advanced the cause of every branch of knowledge, often disagreed with one another, but their scholarly differences were never hate-filled, venomous or bitter. On the contrary, they were courteous, respectful and dignified. Muslims of the current era could learn much from them.

 

[Leo23]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

a wonderful thread and i totally agree with you

i don't need to mention the name but we have a poster here who has to remind everyone 10 times a day that he has stopped believing in religion and can turn any thread into a religious bashing one. the obsession of these people is beyond my understanding. i think it is attention seeking behavior.

if you have stopped believing in God and have allowed yourself to be misguided well good for you. there is no need of talking about it over the internet all day.

 

[DW44]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

a wonderful thread and i totally agree with you

i don't need to mention the name but we have a poster here who has to remind everyone 10 times a day that he has stopped believing in religion and can turn any thread into a religious bashing one. the obsession of these people is beyond my understanding. i think it is attention seeking behavior.

if you have stopped believing in God and have allowed yourself to be misguided well good for you. there is no need of talking about it over the internet all day.

Please quote the ten posts from today or yesterday. Where it's relevant, it's brought up. Where it isn't, it isn't. Last thing I need is to draw attention to myself living in a country where extremists outnumber regular folk heavily.

 

[PakLFC]

If religious people did not get offended at every small comment, we could possibly have a good debate. But its the religious one who claim offence at every juncture.

Just look at this OP.

On top, when you believe in a religion, you reject all the other religions except the one you believe in. So you have rejected the other thousands of religions that are there and have been in the past.

As atheists, we just reject one more!

Religious people or at least not all of them are open to constructive criticism. It is like you can say a man's mother is wrong on a matter but may not attack her character. Even atheists will not accept that, right? By believing in Islam it is the only truth whilst allowing others to disagree and believe whatever they choose to. I am not mad at them neither am I picking a fight with them. I do not "reject" other religions but don't believe for them to be the entire truth. Allah has allowed them to exist.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

a wonderful thread and i totally agree with you

i don't need to mention the name but we have a poster here who has to remind everyone 10 times a day that he has stopped believing in religion and can turn any thread into a religious bashing one. the obsession of these people is beyond my understanding. i think it is attention seeking behavior.

if you have stopped believing in God and have allowed yourself to be misguided well good for you. there is no need of talking about it over the internet all day.

Agreed it's all attention seeking. Like...'Oh look im special because im enlightened and have left a false way of thinking but because of my great courage my life is now in danger but it's worth it because im special'... We all know such posters and people.

 

[JaDed]

The idea of homeland is screwed when one leaves it for just earning extra money,one must stop obsessing about it ,if same is expected from religion.

Religion is not an idea @OP, if it was it wouldn't be destroying lives across the world.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The idea of homeland is screwed when one leaves it for just earning extra money,one must stop obsessing about it ,if same is expected from religion.

Religion is not an idea @OP, if it was it wouldn't be destroying lives across the world.

This is a daft comparison, frankly idiotic.

A homeland is not an idea or a belief, it's a place where one originates from and where one has vested interests such as land or property. People also are dual citizens who although leave their homeland, return regularly and many retire there.

 

[JaDed]

This is a daft comparison, frankly idiotic.

A homeland is not an idea or a belief, it's a place where one originates from and where one has vested interests such as land or property. People also are dual citizens who although leave their homeland, return regularly and many retire there.

Yes and if one wants to be obsessed with it same reason for the ones giving up religion,how can u judge them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I can guarantee "nobody" and "argument" are not to blame here.

Crtitical thinking is one of the hardest things and believing is just the opposite....go to any isloted tribe and one will find each and every tribesmen to be a true believer.

Even in much sophisticated societies, around 90% would be believer of some sort.

Consider:
God is invisible
Jibrael and all other angels are invisible, especially two sitting on shoulders.
Jinns are invisible
..do we have pattern??


Believe in Judgement day blindly.
Believe in life after death, again blindly.

And time to point out some cool stuff:

Winged horse
Dajjal trapped on an island
Gog and Magog are also trapped somewhere
Haroot and Maroot - romantic angels


Only religion can sell these kind of insurance policies.

=====================================
I can point to several blundders in fictional stories which ended up in quran cause some rabbi ( we know the name of rabbi) did some translation blunders in his book (we know the name of book). Which proves without any doubt that atleast some part of Quran is the word of that rabbi.

(Well, I would assume that you already know the name of that rabbi, his book and the translation blunders)

Anyway, who cares...believers will be believers,
And non believers cannot provide comfort that a belief system provides to a needy.

And, I know, you are not convinced a bit.

Ok humour me, please expand on this story of yours.

 

[Sidilicious]

I think hatred is on both sides, killing isn't a measure of hatred. The world is full of killing apparatus, and you could argue that the weapons of mass destruction are used more by atheists or their ideological representatives. The responsibility should ultimately lie with the state, if the state protects your interests then you are less likely to get vigilantes or terrorists acting illegally.

How can you state that atheists are more pre-disposed to use WMDs than theist?

As an atheists, I believe in all religions being equally wrong and ultimately belive in the equality of humans, i.e. every one is the same.

Whereas a theist, especially that believes in a religion (not just spiritual), believes his god/religion/way of life to be superior than the others. In moderates, this might not be a problem, as they could coexist, but not with extreme views.

You see, the more extreme a theist becomes, the more likely is a theist to commit violence against others. On the other hand, the more extreme an atheist becomes, the more likely is he/her to believe in absolute equality of humans.

 

[Black Zero]

Ok humour me, please expand on this story of yours.

I have provided enough pointers so that you (an honest seeker) can find a way by himself...

"Oh look im special because im enlightened" ... and you are not...so you will not be moved by that evidence anyway..
plus holy book of atheists says that one most never try to baby sit.

...

Some pointers about Quranic stories from Archaeology:

- Prophet Solomon's kingdom was not bigger than a small village of Punjab.
- Camel was still not used as a beast of burden during Yousaf (Joseph) time.
- Moses never existed
- Exodus never happened (though reverse happened 500 years before the time of alleged exodus)
- Israelis did not destroy Palestinian cities.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have provided enough pointers so that you (an honest seeker) can find a way by himself...

"Oh look im special because im enlightened" ... and you are not...so you will not be moved by that evidence anyway..
plus holy book of atheists says that one most never try to baby sit.

...

Some pointers about Quranic stories from Archaeology:

- Prophet Solomon's kingdom was not bigger than a small village of Punjab.
- Camel was still not used as a beast of burden during Yousaf (Joseph) time.
- Moses never existed
- Exodus never happened (though reverse happened 500 years before the time of alleged exodus)
- Israelis did not destroy Palestinian cities.

Can you just point to the texts you feel were written by a Rabbi? His name also please?

 

[Adil_94]

if religion was merely a private enterprise where it was just a personal relationship between a person and God then i dont think people who leave a religion would be so bothered by it. But those that come from communities and countries where those who leave a religion or have a different view of religion face abuse ex communication by family and friends or even the threat of murder by vilgilantes or the state then dont be shocked when people talk about it.

its no surprise the most conservative autocratic faith groups and communities that criminalise free thinking have the most vocal former members i.e ex muslims ex mormons ex jehovahs witness.

for ex muslims in the west there is no threat of state backed violence but in certain areas that are muslim majority its not safe for them to be open about their apostasy.

And for ex muslims in most of the muslim world they face threats from society and govt.

if the stigma was removed against people who just happen to leave the faith then u wouldnt see the need for former members of the faith to obsess on the evils of the region.

Also when new communities emerge they always want to show everyone they are here and that there are others like them.

U can forgive people from highlighting the oppressive religion when it is directly impacting people who think like them but who are unluckily born a few thousand miles away.

 

[KingKhanWC]

if religion was merely a private enterprise where it was just a personal relationship between a person and God then i dont think people who leave a religion would be so bothered by it. But those that come from communities and countries where those who leave a religion or have a different view of religion face abuse ex communication by family and friends or even the threat of murder by vilgilantes or the state then dont be shocked when people talk about it.

its no surprise the most conservative autocratic faith groups and communities that criminalise free thinking have the most vocal former members i.e ex muslims ex mormons ex jehovahs witness.

for ex muslims in the west there is no threat of state backed violence but in certain areas that are muslim majority its not safe for them to be open about their apostasy.

And for ex muslims in most of the muslim world they face threats from society and govt.

if the stigma was removed against people who just happen to leave the faith then u wouldnt see the need for former members of the faith to obsess on the evils of the region.

Also when new communities emerge they always want to show everyone they are here and that there are others like them.

U can forgive people from highlighting the oppressive religion when it is directly impacting people who think like them but who are unluckily born a few thousand miles away.

Which areas, please specify and provide evidence to support this?

 

[Adil_94]

no one obsessively discusses greek mythology or roman mythology as these religions are defunct.

christianity used to get debated non stop online by former christians in the west. But the increasing removal of Christianity from the public sphere in informing social values and norms and control has led to most people just not bothering with it as the default state is agnosticism in most western countries now.

as there is no stigma on not following religious practices or rituals or just rejecting God nowadays amongst white westerners in europe anyway. And the dominant churches are a lot more tolerant now and now its accepted u dont get vehement anti christianity riticism from rights campaigners from 50-60 yrs ago when the church and faith was a major force in society.

 

[Black Zero]

Can you just point to the texts you feel were written by a Rabbi? His name also please?

do you know incident of Miraaj originally came from Zoroastrian?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] any area that has a high percentage of Muslims especially in ghettoised communities where they have 'tight knit communities'. someone openly announcing apostasy from.islam is likely to gain negative attention and ostracisation from family for besmirching their 'honour' and supposed friends and threats of physical violence from fundamentalist elements . ive known it happen to friends who live near me couple who converted to christianity and were open on social media about it and one who became an atheist. p


all left because people who just either ostracising them and getting vandalism like this guy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...er-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html

U can keep it a secret its fine but once u go open about it then its only a matter of time before u get pushed out.

 

[KingKhanWC]

do you know incident of Miraaj originally came from Zoroastrian?

When you find this Zorastrian text written before Islam, then you may become famous.

Which verses and the name of the Rabbi please?

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] any area that has a high percentage of Muslims especially in ghettoised communities where they have 'tight knit communities'. someone openly announcing apostasy from.islam is likely to gain negative attention and ostracisation from family for besmirching their 'honour' and supposed friends and threats of physical violence from fundamentalist elements . ive known it happen to friends who live near me couple who converted to christianity and were open on social media about it and one who became an atheist. p


all left because people who just either ostracising them and getting vandalism like this guy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...er-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html

U can keep it a secret its fine but once u go open about it then its only a matter of time before u get pushed out.

This bloke was attacked by thugs not members of the mosque committee. How many people were charged under the religious hate law for attacking him?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] wouldnt say thats entirely true
as atheism doesnt indicate a political or philosophical belief system.

atheists come in many shades.

what u are describing is liberal humanistic values.

because u can become a militant anti theist like the Communists of the early 20th century who think that religion has to be destroyed with force ofc they were influenced by communism but hatred of religion consumed them too.

There are a lot of atheists who support far right movements.

ive spoken with many ex muslims from the muslim world who support trump or favour full state crackdown on islam in the west which i totally disagree with although i get theit resentment for the faith. b


atheism and liberalism secular humanism arent the same although majority of atheists do subscribe to some form of liberal or secular humanistic thoughts.