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[PICTURES] Is India the greatest home team ever?

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austerlitz

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Ever since India became a non-minnow cricketing nation from 1970s when world class players like spin quartet,gavaskar,dev started to appear till now we have lost fewer home series than any other nation,even the formidable aussies .From 1971 -2018 we have only lost 5 home test series in nearly 50 years.

1983 - 3-0 to West Indies(5 match series)
(thoroughly outplayed by a vengeful ATG WI side after their final defeat in WC)

1987 - 1-0 to Pakistan (5 match series)
(Imran led a very strong side,but was only able to win 1 match that too by 16 runs only in a chase where gavaskar got a bad decision at 97)

1997 - 2-0 South africa (3 match series)
(Outclassed by a very strong side against a poor typical 90s indian side)

2004 - 2-1 Australia(4 match series)
(ATG side but still fought.One match washed out on final day with India having a good advantage.3rd test green pitch due to internal board problems with ganguly,bhajji sitting out fiasco,tendulkat missed half series and was crippled for rest of it by tennis elbow)

2012 - 2-1 England (4 match series)
(Team caught in transition.Dravid,Laxman retired. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir on last legs.Rest newcomers.Main strike bowler was pragyan ojha ***)
 
austerlitz said:
Ever since India became a non-minnow cricketing nation from 1970s when world class players like spin quartet,gavaskar,dev started to appear till now we have lost fewer home series than any other nation,even the formidable aussies .From 1971 -2018 we have only lost 5 home test series in nearly 50 years.

1983 - 3-0 to West Indies(5 match series)
(thoroughly outplayed by a vengeful ATG WI side after their final defeat in WC)

1987 - 1-0 to Pakistan (5 match series)
(Imran led a very strong side,but was only able to win 1 match that too by 16 runs only in a chase where gavaskar got a bad decision at 97)

1997 - 2-0 South africa (3 match series)
(Outclassed by a very strong side against a poor typical 90s indian side)

2004 - 2-1 Australia(4 match series)
(ATG side but still fought.One match washed out on final day with India having a good advantage.3rd test green pitch due to internal board problems with ganguly,bhajji sitting out fiasco,tendulkat missed half series and was crippled for rest of it by tennis elbow)

2012 - 2-1 England (4 match series)
(Team caught in transition.Dravid,Laxman retired. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir on last legs.Rest newcomers.Main strike bowler was pragyan ojha ***)
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For greatest home team ever, you will have to include data prior to 1970 as well, otherwise it just becomes selective stats game.
 
They might as well be. I can't think of any other team that has a more dominant record at home. Even in the 90s when India were one of the worst teams in the world they only lost one series. But fact remains that India's performances away from home always hold them back from being anything more than the best team in home conditions.
 
What's the record of other test teams at home in the same time period?
 
 
Your thread title is inaccurate because you are talking about India being the best home team from the 1970s onwards. Even so, since Australia have the best W/L ratio, I would put them above India.

India have benefited immensely over the last decade by not having to play Pakistan. They have been the one team who could consistently challenge them in Asia.
 
Australia for me.

Pakistan can win in India but winning in South Africa and Australia is very tough.
 
Sachin136 said:
Going by W/L ratio,

From 1970: Australia, SA, then India http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1970;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

1980: Australia then India http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1980;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

1990: Australia then India http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

2000: Australia then India http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2000;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

2010: India by far (W/L ratio of 8), then Australia http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
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So if India is third in W/L at home since 1971 , how come anyone say that it's the best team in home grounds since 1971. I am not even talking about best ever.
 
Regardless it's no fun to watch India winning test matches in India because our pitches take away one of the most aesthetic aspect of game away - fast bowlers. Baring close matches, there's no joy seeing so many batsmen getting out at short leg to spinners.
 
Australia have been best in home I think.

Next series against India , would be big for Aussies, since they are probably at weakest point.
 
Bilal7 said:
Your thread title is inaccurate because you are talking about India being the best home team from the 1970s onwards. Even so, since Australia have the best W/L ratio, I would put them above India.

India have benefited immensely over the last decade by not having to play Pakistan. They have been the one team who could consistently challenge them in Asia.
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Pakistan barely managed to win the series against Australia recently. They got whitewashed by SL. and even SA, the worst spin-playing team in the world, drew the series against Pakistan' in 2013 against.In fact, SA beat Pak by an innings in the second match, something they have never managed to do in India.

And lastly and most importantly, Pakistan's best test team of the last 18 years - the one that toured India in 2007 also lost the series.

You are dreaming of you think PCT could put so much as a dent on India's home record, especially in the last decade which has seen the worst Pakistan test team in ages.
 
India have been the most dominant home team for about 3 decades now. There is no debate about it.

There's a reason why the greatest team of al time - Steve Waugh's Australia called India the final frontier. They didn't say it for ENG, SA or Pak. They said it for India. That should tell you everything.
 
Bilal7 said:
Your thread title is inaccurate because you are talking about India being the best home team from the 1970s onwards. Even so, since Australia have the best W/L ratio, I would put them above India.

India have benefited immensely over the last decade by not having to play Pakistan. They have been the one team who could consistently challenge them in Asia.
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Given that Pak got owned by Herath, I really doubt they can handle Ashwin AND Jadeja.
 
Bilal7 said:
Your thread title is inaccurate because you are talking about India being the best home team from the 1970s onwards. Even so, since Australia have the best W/L ratio, I would put them above India.

India have benefited immensely over the last decade by not having to play Pakistan. They have been the one team who could consistently challenge them in Asia.
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Looks like your'e still stuck in the era where pakistan had very good test sides.If Pakistan faced us recently in India it would be a massacre.You were whitewashed by SL at home.SL has NEVER won a single test in India.
 
the_outsider said:
Pakistan barely managed to win the series against Australia recently. They got whitewashed by SL. and even SA, the worst spin-playing team in the world, drew the series against Pakistan' in 2013 against.In fact, SA beat Pak by an innings in the second match, something they have never managed to do in India.

And lastly and most importantly, Pakistan's best test team of the last 18 years - the one that toured India in 2007 also lost the series.

You are dreaming of you think PCT could put so much as a dent on India's home record, especially in the last decade which has seen the worst Pakistan test team in ages.
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2013 SA was an ATG team, especially overseas. They were also excellent against spin, peak Kallis, Amla, ABDV brutally manhandled our spinners at home. They drew 2 series in India in 2008 and 2010. And in each of those tours they gave us an innings mauling, in Nagpur and Motera respectively. Mind you that was a terrific Indian line up with our greatest batting resources, much better than current Team India.

Change the criteria to last 19 years and voila Pakistan won 2 and lost 1 in 1999-'00. In 2005 they drew in India while in 2007 (not their best in last 18 years as you put it) they lost. Overall W-L for Pakistan in India since 1999 is 3-3.

You are dreaming if you think they wouldn't have troubled us in the last decade. In 2012, England humiliated us and then got thrashed 0-3 in the desert. 2011-15 Pakistan was a brilliant team especially in Asian conditions with their spin armada and Misbah-Younis. We are lucky we didn't face them when we were in turmoil and they were firing on all cylinders.

the_outsider said:
India have been the most dominant home team for about 3 decades now. There is no debate about it.

There's a reason why the greatest team of al time - Steve Waugh's Australia called India the final frontier. They didn't say it for ENG, SA or Pak. They said it for India. That should tell you everything.
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No Australia is, that too by a landslide. And the W-L record proves it. It can also be argued that SA has been better at home than us because only Australia and England have won there. In the last 15-20 years we have been the most dominant team at home, not 3 decades. Even that has a question mark because we haven't faced Pakistan a lot, the one team with the game style to challenge us at home. Imagine had SA and Aus not toured each other the last 10 years, how much more impressive would their home records read !!!!

Steve Waugh called India the final frontier because we were a difficult match up for them, especially in India. Our players (esp batsmen) reserved their best for Australia in that era, more than our home prowess Steve Waugh was praising our personnel who always lifted themselves up against his side and never showed any fear (a rarity those days). Cricket is all about match ups. SA at home was stronger at that time than us but were an easier match up for the Aussies (cos of playing conditions). Also all teams have their bogey, like England has been for us in the last 8 years or so. We were the bogey team for ATG Australia, full stop. That is why an inferior SA humiliated us 2-0 in 1999-2000, whereas we beat ATG Australia in 1998 and 2001.
 
OP [MENTION=146114]austerlitz[/MENTION] you have messed up the numbers. We have lost more than just 5 series in the last 50 years at home. The ones you missed:

Australia 1969-70: we lost 1-3.

WI 1974-75: we lost 2-3. We beat a Packer reject team 1-0 in 1978-79 however. To our credit we drew against them (full strength) in 1987-88 and 1994.

England: This is where it gets embarrassing and surprised how you missed them all. They beat us 3-1 in 1976-77 and 2-1 in 1984-85. They also won the lone test (Golden Jubilee Botham test) in Bombay in 1980. So that's 3 misses.

Pakistan: In 1999 we played 3 tests against them at home, a 2 test series and the Asian Test Championship. They won in Calcutta and Madras, we won in Delhi. Whichever way you look at it that is a series loss for us.

So all in all, we have lost 11 test series at home in the last 50 years, or 9 test series+2 lone tests (Eng, Pak) whichever way you look at it. Not that impressive is it?
 
Buffet said:
So if India is third in W/L at home since 1971 , how come anyone say that it's the best team in home grounds since 1971. I am not even talking about best ever.
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He is talking about individual tests,i'm talking about test series.

In this era Aus lost -

1971 ashes 2-0
1978 ashes 5-1(can be discounted because all best aussie players were playing WSC)
1979 west indies 2-0
1985 west indies 5-0
1986 ashes 2-1
1988 west indies 3-1
1992 west indies 2-1
2008 south africa 3-1
2010 ashes 3-1
2012 south africa 1-0

Excluding the 1978 ashes thats 9 home series defeats.

I edit my data ,from 1970s.
India lost

3-2 west indies 1975
3-0 west indies 1983
2-1 england 1985
1-0 pakistan 1987
2-0 south africa 1997
2-1 Aus 2004
2-1 england 2012.

In total 7 series defeats.And only 3 in last 3 decades.

South africa from 1994 -

2-1 australia 1996
2-1 aus 2001
2-1 england 2004
3-0 australia 2005
2-1 aus 2008-9
2-1 aus 2013
2-1 eng 2015

Thats 7 home series defeats in half the period.

Pakistan -

1-0 west indies 1980
2-1 sri lanka 1995
1-0 south africa 1997
1-0 australia 1998
1-0 zimbabwe 1999
2-1 Sri lanka 1999
1-0 england 2000-1
2-1 india 2003-4
1-0 south africa 2007
(in UAE)
3-0 aus 2002
2-0 sri lanka 2017

11 home series defeats

England

1-0 india 1971
2-0 wi 1973
1-0 ashes 1975
3-0 wi 1976
1-0 wi 1980
5-0 wi 1984
2-0 india 1986
1-0 nz 1986
1-0 pak 1987
4-0 wi 1988
4-0 ashes 1989
2-1 pak 1992
4-1 ashes 1993
2-0 pak 1996
3-2 ashes 1997
1-0 sri lanka 98
2-1 nz 1999
4-1 ashes 2001
1-0 india 2007
2-1 sa 2008
2-1 sa 2012
1-0 sri lanka 2014


22 home series defeats.:facepalm:
 
Swashbuckler said:
OP [MENTION=146114]austerlitz[/MENTION] you have messed up the numbers. We have lost more than just 5 series in the last 50 years at home. The ones you missed:

Australia 1969-70: we lost 1-3.

WI 1974-75: we lost 2-3. We beat a Packer reject team 1-0 in 1978-79 however. To our credit we drew against them (full strength) in 1987-88 and 1994.

England: This is where it gets embarrassing and surprised how you missed them all. They beat us 3-1 in 1976-77 and 2-1 in 1984-85. They also won the lone test (Golden Jubilee Botham test) in Bombay in 1980. So that's 3 misses.

Pakistan: In 1999 we played 3 tests against them at home, a 2 test series and the Asian Test Championship. They won in Calcutta and Madras, we won in Delhi. Whichever way you look at it that is a series loss for us.

So all in all, we have lost 11 test series at home in the last 50 years, or 9 test series+2 lone tests (Eng, Pak) whichever way you look at it. Not that impressive is it?
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I agree,i didn't actually remember series from 70s and 80s of indian cricket.But no 1999 wasnt one.Even at 9 series defeats we are better than australia with 10 home series defeats.(9 if you exclude 1979 ashes)
 
There are mistakes in OP, for example the 1983 WI series had 6 tests and not 5. The SA series loss happened in 2000 and it was a series whitewash, we weren't a poor typical 90s side but a strong home team that would go on to end Australia's streak the next year. The excuses are in poor taste, Gavaskar may have got a wrong decision when he was on 97 but he also got a couple of reprieves early on in the same innings.
 
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] dravid & laxman didn't play in 2010 nagpur test against Africa.we played saha & badrinath as a pure batsman & vijay at no 3..
 
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] dravid & laxman didn't play in 2010 nagpur test against Africa.we played saha & badrinath as a pure batsman & vijay at no 3..
 
austerlitz said:
I agree,i didn't actually remember series from 70s and 80s of indian cricket.But no 1999 wasnt one.Even at 9 series defeats we are better than australia with 10 home series defeats.(9 if you exclude 1979 ashes)
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1999 Pakistan won 2 and lost 1 on Indian soil, that has to be taken into consideration. Also don't forget the 1980 Golden Jubilee test, Botham's finest hour in test cricket IMO, even greater than Headingley '81.
 
Srtfan said:
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] dravid & laxman didn't play in 2010 nagpur test against Africa.we played saha & badrinath as a pure batsman & vijay at no 3..
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I know that. But it was an innings thrashing nonetheless and we had Tendulkar (no 1 batsman in the world), Sehwag (ICC player of the year), Gambhir (peak), Dhoni (peak), Bhajji, Zaheer (peak) in that team which made it formidable. I was answering a poster who said that we had never been given innings defeat by SA on home soil. In fact even in 2000 we received an innings defeat against them in Chinnaswamy, so that is 3 innings defeats in just this millennium.
 
I guess trolls/biased need to learn geography before calling a series on a neutral surface a home series. I have no idea what Pak record is in Pak Vs India home record however, it can't be much worse.

Anyhow to me, AU record in AU is commendable because for the longest time they kept beating good teams, barring great WI, on a surface which WAS not much dissimilar to NZ, Eng, WI, and SA.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Given that Pak got owned by Herath, I really doubt they can handle Ashwin AND Jadeja.
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This would imply that Ashwin and Jadeja are better spinners that Herath which is not the case.

Tusker said:
forget Herath even Bishoo owned them last year ... came within 50-60 runs of losing a series to WI in UAE :))
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Much less embarassing than being owned by Dean Elgar and Steven O'Keefe.

the_outsider said:
Pakistan barely managed to win the series against Australia recently. They got whitewashed by SL. and even SA, the worst spin-playing team in the world, drew the series against Pakistan' in 2013 against.In fact, SA beat Pak by an innings in the second match, something they have never managed to do in India.

And lastly and most importantly, Pakistan's best test team of the last 18 years - the one that toured India in 2007 also lost the series.

You are dreaming of you think PCT could put so much as a dent on India's home record, especially in the last decade which has seen the worst Pakistan test team in ages.
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Wow, what a nonsense post.

Since you clearly have trouble reading, I would like to remind you that my post mentions "over the last decade", as in not simply the last year or so when Pakistan lost its best batsman and captain and were in transition.

South Africa, the worst spin-playing team "in the world"?. Hilarious. Let us look at the batting lineup that made up this garbage team:

1) Graeme Smith
2) Alviro Peterson
3) Hashim Amla (the best batsman in the world at the time)
4) Jacques Kallis
5) AB de Villiers
6) Faf du Plessis
7) JP Duminy
8) Robin Peterson
9) Vernon Philander

Yeah, definitely looks like the worst spin-playing side in the world. :))

Funnily enough, a slightly inferior version of this same team came within a few runs of winning a series against India in 2010, with India getting thoroughly outplayed in the first test. They also won a series in Sri Lanka against Herath in 2014.

If England could destroy India in 2012, Pakistan could have certainly done the same. With spinners like Ajmal and Shah and batsmen like Younis and Misbah, only someone who believes that South Africa were "the worst spin-playing team in the world" in 2013, can say that Pakistan would not have made things very difficult for India.
 
austerlitz said:
Looks like your'e still stuck in the era where pakistan had very good test sides.If Pakistan faced us recently in India it would be a massacre.You were whitewashed by SL at home.SL has NEVER won a single test in India.
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You should worry more about fixing your poorly researched thread. Start by fixing the thread title, then the number of series that India lost and then also list how many series each country has played so we can know the W/L ratio.

India got owned in 2012 by an English side that got wrecked by Pakistan a few months ago. Something tells me that had Pakistan toured India at the time, you would have to add another home loss to their record. India's home record has benefited greatly from not facing Pakistan at home.
 
Swashbuckler said:
2013 SA was an ATG team, especially overseas. They were also excellent against spin, peak Kallis, Amla, ABDV brutally manhandled our spinners at home. They drew 2 series in India in 2008 and 2010. And in each of those tours they gave us an innings mauling, in Nagpur and Motera respectively. Mind you that was a terrific Indian line up with our greatest batting resources, much better than current Team India.

Change the criteria to last 19 years and voila Pakistan won 2 and lost 1 in 1999-'00. In 2005 they drew in India while in 2007 (not their best in last 18 years as you put it) they lost. Overall W-L for Pakistan in India since 1999 is 3-3.

You are dreaming if you think they wouldn't have troubled us in the last decade. In 2012, England humiliated us and then got thrashed 0-3 in the desert. 2011-15 Pakistan was a brilliant team especially in Asian conditions with their spin armada and Misbah-Younis. We are lucky we didn't face them when we were in turmoil and they were firing on all cylinders.



No Australia is, that too by a landslide. And the W-L record proves it. It can also be argued that SA has been better at home than us because only Australia and England have won there. In the last 15-20 years we have been the most dominant team at home, not 3 decades. Even that has a question mark because we haven't faced Pakistan a lot, the one team with the game style to challenge us at home. Imagine had SA and Aus not toured each other the last 10 years, how much more impressive would their home records read !!!!

Steve Waugh called India the final frontier because we were a difficult match up for them, especially in India. Our players (esp batsmen) reserved their best for Australia in that era, more than our home prowess Steve Waugh was praising our personnel who always lifted themselves up against his side and never showed any fear (a rarity those days). Cricket is all about match ups. SA at home was stronger at that time than us but were an easier match up for the Aussies (cos of playing conditions). Also all teams have their bogey, like England has been for us in the last 8 years or so. We were the bogey team for ATG Australia, full stop. That is why an inferior SA humiliated us 2-0 in 1999-2000, whereas we beat ATG Australia in 1998 and 2001.
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Good post. I don't know why people are pretending otherwise. Pakistan and India have been two of the best teams in Asia over the last decade and their home records have benefited from not having to face each other. Pakistan were stronger until Younis and Misbah retired and now India have the upper hand, but regardless, each team would have troubled the other.
 
austerlitz said:
I agree,i didn't actually remember series from 70s and 80s of indian cricket.But no 1999 wasnt one.Even at 9 series defeats we are better than australia with 10 home series defeats.(9 if you exclude 1979 ashes)
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11 series defeats. Lone tests are also counted as series just like lone T20s are counted as series. So the rankings based on your criteria:

1) Australia
2) South Africa
3) Pakistan/India
 
Possibly, India are home bashing specialists
 
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Bilal7 said:
Your thread title is inaccurate because you are talking about India being the best home team from the 1970s onwards. Even so, since Australia have the best W/L ratio, I would put them above India.

India have benefited immensely over the last decade by not having to play Pakistan. They have been the one team who could consistently challenge them in Asia.
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Good joke! Talk about selective memory - you ought to be reminded Pakistan got whitewashed in UAE against SL and you think Pakistan could compete against India with Ashwin + Jadeja on rank turners?!

India would whitewash Pakistan who have been blessed to have been spared of such humiliation.

Take your green tinted specs off for once.
 
Going by W/L its in top 3 but not the best. But even then it's difficult to rate because India was operating with two chucker cheaters in the form of Bhajji and Ojha.

Laughable that people are considering Pakistan up there based upon the recent decade when we had chucker and cheater Ajmal winning us test matches and series between 2012-2014.
 
austerlitz said:
Looks like your'e still stuck in the era where pakistan had very good test sides.If Pakistan faced us recently in India it would be a massacre.You were whitewashed by SL at home.SL has NEVER won a single test in India.
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Unfortunately there is no cure for the green tinted (aka hype brigade) folk.
 
topspin said:
Good joke! Talk about selective memory - you ought to be reminded Pakistan got whitewashed in UAE against SL and you think Pakistan could compete against India with Ashwin + Jadeja on rank turners?!

India would whitewash Pakistan who have been blessed to have been spared of such humiliation.

Take your green tinted specs off for once.
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Indian fans love to refer to the Sri Lankan series. Tell me who will win today if Pakistan plays a series against Sri Lanka on rank turners.

Last bilateral odi tour that Pakistan had to India was won by Pakistan. Pakistan’s record in India is actually pretty good both in tests and Odis. Pakistan is one team mostly likely to give a tough time to India on their turf than any other team in world cricket. You know what happens when India loses on their home grounds, the crowd start showing their true colours and India has been saved the embarrassment by not playing pakistan as the world will not get to see the Indian crowds throwing bottles at players and start fires in the stands.
 
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Ozeirk said:
Indian fans love to refer to the Sri Lankan series. Tell me who will win today if Pakistan plays a series against Sri Lanka on rank turners.

Last bilateral odi tour that Pakistan had to India was won by Pakistan. Pakistan’s record in India is actually pretty good both in tests and Odis. Pakistan is one team mostly likely to give a tough time to India on their turf than any other team in world cricket. You know what happens when India loses on their home grounds, the crowd start showing their true colours and India has been saved the embarrassment by not playing pakistan as the world will not get to see the Indian crowds throwing bottles at players and start fires in the stands.
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You assumed wrong - I'm a Pakistan fan who doesn't belong to the hype brigade and sees things from an impartial viewpoint.
 
Buffet said:
So if India is third in W/L at home since 1971 , how come anyone say that it's the best team in home grounds since 1971. I am not even talking about best ever.
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W/L ratio is one metric. A better metric in my opinion is number of series wins and losses.
 
austerlitz said:
He is talking about individual tests,i'm talking about test series.

In this era Aus lost -

1971 ashes 2-0
1978 ashes 5-1(can be discounted because all best aussie players were playing WSC)
1979 west indies 2-0
1985 west indies 5-0
1986 ashes 2-1
1988 west indies 3-1
1992 west indies 2-1
2008 south africa 3-1
2010 ashes 3-1
2012 south africa 1-0

Excluding the 1978 ashes thats 9 home series defeats.

I edit my data ,from 1970s.
India lost

3-2 west indies 1975
3-0 west indies 1983
2-1 england 1985
1-0 pakistan 1987
2-0 south africa 1997
2-1 Aus 2004
2-1 england 2012.

In total 7 series defeats.And only 3 in last 3 decades.

South africa from 1994 -

2-1 australia 1996
2-1 aus 2001
2-1 england 2004
3-0 australia 2005
2-1 aus 2008-9
2-1 aus 2013
2-1 eng 2015

Thats 7 home series defeats in half the period.

Pakistan -

1-0 west indies 1980
2-1 sri lanka 1995
1-0 south africa 1997
1-0 australia 1998
1-0 zimbabwe 1999
2-1 Sri lanka 1999
1-0 england 2000-1
2-1 india 2003-4
1-0 south africa 2007
(in UAE)
3-0 aus 2002
2-0 sri lanka 2017

11 home series defeats

England

1-0 india 1971
2-0 wi 1973
1-0 ashes 1975
3-0 wi 1976
1-0 wi 1980
5-0 wi 1984
2-0 india 1986
1-0 nz 1986
1-0 pak 1987
4-0 wi 1988
4-0 ashes 1989
2-1 pak 1992
4-1 ashes 1993
2-0 pak 1996
3-2 ashes 1997
1-0 sri lanka 98
2-1 nz 1999
4-1 ashes 2001
1-0 india 2007
2-1 sa 2008
2-1 sa 2012
1-0 sri lanka 2014


22 home series defeats.:facepalm:
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Listing series loss alone is not going to tell the whole story.

3 series loss out of 20 is worse that 6 series loss out of 50. Total number of series has to be listed with series loss. In short , % of series loss.
 
% series won
% if series lost.

Once we have both data it's easy to see which team has done the best in home conditions. Both numbers are important.
 
I think Australia are probably the best home team ever but these stats are pretty good.
 
Ozeirk said:
Indian fans love to refer to the Sri Lankan series. Tell me who will win today if Pakistan plays a series against Sri Lanka on rank turners.

Last bilateral odi tour that Pakistan had to India was won by Pakistan. Pakistan’s record in India is actually pretty good both in tests and Odis. Pakistan is one team mostly likely to give a tough time to India on their turf than any other team in world cricket. You know what happens when India loses on their home grounds, the crowd start showing their true colours and India has been saved the embarrassment by not playing pakistan as the world will not get to see the Indian crowds throwing bottles at players and start fires in the stands.
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If England and Australia can beat India in India, Pakistan can definitely do the same. I don't understand how the 2:0 loss to Sri Lanka proves otherwise when this was after both of our best batsmen against spin had retired. When we had them, we beat Sri Lanka 2-1 in Sri Lanka.
 
rhony said:
I think the discussion was overall record as the host nation
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Indian conditions are difficult to play for foreigners which is why India does so well at home. Pak would give them competition is we could play at home as well.
 
Pakistan had trouble negotiating Dilruwan Perera. Ashwin and Jadeja will eat them alive.
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] what were your boasts when Ajmal was reported for chucking?
 
Bilal7 said:
This would imply that Ashwin and Jadeja are better spinners that Herath which is not the case.



Much less embarassing than being owned by Dean Elgar and Steven O'Keefe.



Wow, what a nonsense post.

Since you clearly have trouble reading, I would like to remind you that my post mentions "over the last decade", as in not simply the last year or so when Pakistan lost its best batsman and captain and were in transition.

South Africa, the worst spin-playing team "in the world"?. Hilarious. Let us look at the batting lineup that made up this garbage team:

1) Graeme Smith
2) Alviro Peterson
3) Hashim Amla (the best batsman in the world at the time)
4) Jacques Kallis
5) AB de Villiers
6) Faf du Plessis
7) JP Duminy
8) Robin Peterson
9) Vernon Philander

Yeah, definitely looks like the worst spin-playing side in the world. :))

Funnily enough, a slightly inferior version of this same team came within a few runs of winning a series against India in 2010, with India getting thoroughly outplayed in the first test. They also won a series in Sri Lanka against Herath in 2014.

If England could destroy India in 2012, Pakistan could have certainly done the same. With spinners like Ajmal and Shah and batsmen like Younis and Misbah, only someone who believes that South Africa were "the worst spin-playing team in the world" in 2013, can say that Pakistan would not have made things very difficult for India.
Click to expand...

Please go watch some cooking shows. Cricket is not your cup of tea.

That SA XI is the same XI (minus Smith & Kallis) that got whitewashed in India in 2015.

All Pakistan managed was a draw. That's exactly what Bangladesh managed against SA in 2015.

So congratulations, your team is as good as Bangladesh.

Some people. Gets humiliated by teams like SL and WI in their home and then dream about winning a series in India. :misbah
 
the_outsider said:
Please go watch some cooking shows. Cricket is not your cup of tea.

That SA XI is the same XI (minus Smith & Kallis) that got whitewashed in India in 2015.

All Pakistan managed was a draw. That's exactly what Bangladesh managed against SA in 2015.

So congratulations, your team is as good as Bangladesh.

Some people. Gets humiliated by teams like SL and WI in their home and then dream about winning a series in India. :misbah
Click to expand...

"Same XI". Yes, totally the same XI. I mean all they were missing were their ATG all-rounder and middle-order colossus who provided them with excellent balance; their ATG captain who also happened to be a great opener and player of spin; and their ATG pacer, Dale Steyn.

:)) With your memory and logic, even cooking shows would be too much.

Once again, Pakistan would have made life very difficult for India had they toured a few times over the last decade, especially during 2011-2017, when they were a better test team than India.
 
Even if India win 100 consecutive tests at home, they won't be considered greatest home team. Reason : Very simple. This is a Pakistani forum.
 
Bilal7 said:
"Same XI". Yes, totally the same XI. I mean all they were missing were their ATG all-rounder and middle-order colossus who provided them with excellent balance; their ATG captain who also happened to be a great opener and player of spin; and their ATG pacer, Dale Steyn.

:)) With your memory and logic, even cooking shows would be too much.

Once again, Pakistan would have made life very difficult for India had they toured a few times over the last decade, especially during 2011-2017, when they were a better test team than India.
Click to expand...

Dude have some shame .... the last time any NZ Team beat India in India was 30 yrs ago. For WI that is 24 yrs ago and for SL ...... erm NEVER !!!
 
Sachin136 said:
The numbers may be off by 1 or 2 (because I read them off from http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesListCountry.asp?A=AUS&B=XXX&W=H, can't see aggregate series results on statsguru), but Australia has lost 12/75 (16%) series since 1970, and India has lost 9/63 (14%).
Click to expand...

So 16% series loss for Aus and 14% series loss for India. They are very close in avoiding series loss at home.

What about winning series % at home? That may tell us total picture.
 
Bilal7 said:
"Same XI". Yes, totally the same XI. I mean all they were missing were their ATG all-rounder and middle-order colossus who provided them with excellent balance; their ATG captain who also happened to be a great opener and player of spin; and their ATG pacer, Dale Steyn.

:)) With your memory and logic, even cooking shows would be too much.

Once again, Pakistan would have made life very difficult for India had they toured a few times over the last decade, especially during 2011-2017, when they were a better test team than India.
Click to expand...

SA toured with all their ATGs twice before their 2015 whitewash. They didn't win a series then either. So much for that excuse then. :))

And I'm just like Aane Do series is etched in your memory so is the 2007 test tour of Pak to India. :dw

The only phase where Pak had a realistic chance of beating India in India was 2011/12 when Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid, VVS, Harbhajan were all in their last legs. Other than that, Pak never stood a chance in India.

And if the current Pakistan team tours India....well... :)))
 
Bilal7 said:
Once again, Pakistan would have made life very difficult for India had they toured a few times over the last decade, especially during 2011-2017, when they were a better test team than India.
Click to expand...

Isn't it funny. When Pakistan could play India, they weren't good enough to beat them in India. And bad enough to lose to India at home.

And as soon as bilaterals stopped PCT became "a better test team than India".

Bilal and his green chashma. It's the gift that keeps on giving. :salute
 
Buffet said:
So 16% series loss for Aus and 14% series loss for India. They are very close in avoiding series loss at home.

What about winning series % at home? That may tell us total picture.
Click to expand...

If this is from 1970 onwards, then India has won 65.6% of home series and Australia has won 69.3% of their home series.
 
Buffet said:
So 16% series loss for Aus and 14% series loss for India. They are very close in avoiding series loss at home.

What about winning series % at home? That may tell us total picture.
Click to expand...

52/75 (69%) series wins for Australia and 42/63 (67%) series wins for India.
 
the_outsider said:
Isn't it funny. When Pakistan could play India, they weren't good enough to beat them in India. And bad enough to lose to India at home.

And as soon as bilaterals stopped PCT became "a better test team than India".

Bilal and his green chashma. It's the gift that keeps on giving. :salute
Click to expand...

we beat you in 1987, you cheated in 1999 but we practically won that "series" too and we drew with arguably our worse bowling side ever in 2005 against your so called legendary batting lineup. We also thrashed you in 2006 when you had us at 36-6. Again with your legends. So please.

India is a side that has great batters but its interesting how they have "rigged" the cricketing environment in their favour because they bring in the money. Flat pitches because Indian audiences like chuka chaoka, restrict bowlers because indian audiences like Chukka chaoka, change rules because Indian audiences like chukka chaoka, etc etc.

the whole model of world cricket is now geared towards rewarding batsmen. And you adapt or pay the price. Its interesting that international cricket just mirrors the way India have played at home.

For example back in the day in india you would get flat pitches where their batsman would hit big scores and the bowlers (good bowlers) mind you would be shamsed. The crowd would go ape and tv numbers would go through the roof as limited indian sides would hit 300 plus etc against good bowling sides. The ICC saw this and decided (as did other boards) that you cant have pitches with juice in them otherwise indians cry baby fans and team would moan and complain and refuse to play you. Hence revenue would go down. so the ICC made the game fit India rather than the other way around.
 
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the Great Khan said:
we beat you in 1987, you cheated in 1999 but we practically won that "series" too and we drew with arguably our worse bowling side ever in 2005 against your so called legendary batting lineup. We also thrashed you in 2006 when you had us at 36-6. Again with your legends. So please.

India is a side that has great batters but its interesting how they have "rigged" the cricketing environment in their favour because they bring in the money. Flat pitches because Indian audiences like chuka chaoka, restrict bowlers because indian audiences like Chukka chaoka, change rules because Indian audiences like chukka chaoka, etc etc.

the whole model of world cricket is now geared towards rewarding batsmen. And you adapt or pay the price. Its interesting that international cricket just mirrors the way India have played at home.

For example back in the day in india you would get flat pitches where their batsman would hit big scores and the bowlers (good bowlers) mind you would be shamsed. The crowd would go ape and tv numbers would go through the roof as limited indian sides would hit 300 plus etc against good bowling sides. The ICC saw this and decided (as did other boards) that you cant have pitches with juice in them otherwise indians cry baby fans and team would moan and complain and refuse to play you. Hence revenue would go down. so the ICC made the game fit India rather than the other way around.
Click to expand...

Waah bhai! You have built an entire conspiracy theory in a deperate attempt to cope with your situation. Full marks for effort. :)))
 
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the_outsider said:
Waah bhai! You have built an entire conspiracy theory in a deperate attempt to cope with your situation. Full marks for effort. :)))
Click to expand...

actually its simply a fact. That has been articulated many a time by the ICC. The largest cricketing watching nation is where? its no coincidence that flat pitches came into being around the same time as you started making the most money. Its called standardisation to maximise profit. Its a common thing to do in other industries at times and the ICC has done the same. And the benefit is that the system rolls with the countries who wield the most power. this is a fact. Now you can mock it all you want, but this is simply the way it is. Shorter boundaries, less fielders in the circle, flat pitches, who has benefited the most? The one nation that produces the most flat track batsmen in the history of the modern era.

Its quite simple, if you dont play ODI cricket the India way you tend not to be very successful. Unless you can find a way to change the rules of the game and that doesnt happen often , maybe occasionally in ICC tournies.
 
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"India benefited by not playing Pakistan the last decade" takes the bakery in this thread though. :)))
 
austerlitz said:
Ever since India became a non-minnow cricketing nation from 1970s when world class players like spin quartet,gavaskar,dev started to appear till now we have lost fewer home series than any other nation,even the formidable aussies .From 1971 -2018 we have only lost 5 home test series in nearly 50 years.

1983 - 3-0 to West Indies(5 match series)
(thoroughly outplayed by a vengeful ATG WI side after their final defeat in WC)

1987 - 1-0 to Pakistan (5 match series)
(Imran led a very strong side,but was only able to win 1 match that too by 16 runs only in a chase where gavaskar got a bad decision at 97)

1997 - 2-0 South africa (3 match series)
(Outclassed by a very strong side against a poor typical 90s indian side)

2004 - 2-1 Australia(4 match series)
(ATG side but still fought.One match washed out on final day with India having a good advantage.3rd test green pitch due to internal board problems with ganguly,bhajji sitting out fiasco,tendulkat missed half series and was crippled for rest of it by tennis elbow)

2012 - 2-1 England (4 match series)
(Team caught in transition.Dravid,Laxman retired. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir on last legs.Rest newcomers.Main strike bowler was pragyan ojha ***)
Click to expand...

You missed out the loss to Gower’s England in 1984/5.
 
Robert said:
You missed out the loss to Gower’s England in 1984/5.
Click to expand...

Foster, Fowler, Gatting at Chennai.. Has to be one of the best wins for England. Lone bright spot for India was the debut of Azhar, who scored 3 hundreds in his first three tests, a feat still unparalleled, prompting Allan Lamb to say "Batting is like ________ to him, does it so easily"
 
austerlitz said:
Ever since India became a non-minnow cricketing nation from 1970s when world class players like spin quartet,gavaskar,dev started to appear till now we have lost fewer home series than any other nation,even the formidable aussies .From 1971 -2018 we have only lost 5 home test series in nearly 50 years.

1983 - 3-0 to West Indies(5 match series)
(thoroughly outplayed by a vengeful ATG WI side after their final defeat in WC)

1987 - 1-0 to Pakistan (5 match series)
(Imran led a very strong side,but was only able to win 1 match that too by 16 runs only in a chase where gavaskar got a bad decision at 97)

1997 - 2-0 South africa (3 match series)
(Outclassed by a very strong side against a poor typical 90s indian side)

2004 - 2-1 Australia(4 match series)
(ATG side but still fought.One match washed out on final day with India having a good advantage.3rd test green pitch due to internal board problems with ganguly,bhajji sitting out fiasco,tendulkat missed half series and was crippled for rest of it by tennis elbow)

2012 - 2-1 England (4 match series)
(Team caught in transition.Dravid,Laxman retired. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir on last legs.Rest newcomers.Main strike bowler was pragyan ojha ***)
Click to expand...

Some factual mistakes...

1. Missed 1984 loss to England

2. SA defeat was in 1999/00 and not 1997 and it was not a typical 90's poor indian side. Those were raging turners and Indians couldnt get Nicky Boje out, forget about Kallis. Poor indian side was when they travelled. At home they were always a good side, no matter who the opposition was.

3. India were 1-0 up in 2012, after Pujara 200 and still managed to lose the test series. How the hell did that happen? Swann and Panesar gave India a masterclass in quality spin. India had not faced such class in spin bowling since the Pakistan tour in 1998/99

And coming to Pakistan, the 1998/99 tour was a 2 test series which ended in 1-1, however, if u see the next test immediately after the Delhi test (Kumble 10/74) was he Asian Test Championship at Kolkata, and after having Pakistan at 26/6 in the first innings, india still managed to lose the test!
 
EliteCynical said:
Some factual mistakes...

1. Missed 1984 loss to England

2. SA defeat was in 1999/00 and not 1997 and it was not a typical 90's poor indian side. Those were raging turners and Indians couldnt get Nicky Boje out, forget about Kallis. Poor indian side was when they travelled. At home they were always a good side, no matter who the opposition was.

3. India were 1-0 up in 2012, after Pujara 200 and still managed to lose the test series. How the hell did that happen? Swann and Panesar gave India a masterclass in quality spin. India had not faced such class in spin bowling since the Pakistan tour in 1998/99

And coming to Pakistan, the 1998/99 tour was a 2 test series which ended in 1-1, however, if u see the next test immediately after the Delhi test (Kumble 10/74) was he Asian Test Championship at Kolkata, and after having Pakistan at 26/6 in the first innings, india still managed to lose the test!
Click to expand...

That's not true. Warne and Murali came to India multiple times between 1998 and 2012.

But yeah Swann and Panesar bowled really well. And Cook and KP were brilliant too.

But that Indian team wasn't strong either. Dravid and VVS had retired. Sachin, Sehwag and Harbhajan were in their last year of international cricket. And Kohli was in his first year of test cricket.

England played very well but that was the weakest Indian test team in the last 15 years.
 
Our fans have no shame. Mocking India when we have Sarfraz as captain , Hafeez as a key player :))), mental midgets as batsmen, losing to Sri Lanka,West Indies,and NZ at home.

India are a better team than us in tests in all facets of the game. Just put your biased aside and admit the truth. You make all of look bad with your delusion and fantasys.
 
the Great Khan said:
we beat you in 1987, you cheated in 1999 but we practically won that "series" too and we drew with arguably our worse bowling side ever in 2005 against your so called legendary batting lineup. We also thrashed you in 2006 when you had us at 36-6. Again with your legends. So please.

India is a side that has great batters but its interesting how they have "rigged" the cricketing environment in their favour because they bring in the money. Flat pitches because Indian audiences like chuka chaoka, restrict bowlers because indian audiences like Chukka chaoka, change rules because Indian audiences like chukka chaoka, etc etc.

the whole model of world cricket is now geared towards rewarding batsmen. And you adapt or pay the price. Its interesting that international cricket just mirrors the way India have played at home.

For example back in the day in india you would get flat pitches where their batsman would hit big scores and the bowlers (good bowlers) mind you would be shamsed. The crowd would go ape and tv numbers would go through the roof as limited indian sides would hit 300 plus etc against good bowling sides. The ICC saw this and decided (as did other boards) that you cant have pitches with juice in them otherwise indians cry baby fans and team would moan and complain and refuse to play you. Hence revenue would go down. so the ICC made the game fit India rather than the other way around.

then they did their greatest move which was eliminate the one nation that could have countered this by attacking them in 2009 as part of a wider plan to isolate Pakistan. it was nice and convenient. Hence we are here and thats why the CT win was such a shock..

I mean "we rigged the shystum but sthill these pakistani's (insert said racial slur that indians use for Muslims and pakistani) won? yay kaisay ho gaya? "

One thing the world has figured out is that India has to keep winning for the game to be viable because Indian fans dont really care about cricket. They only care about Indian cricket.
Click to expand...

Australian pitches have been flat for long time and they had some great bowlers in the steve waugh era which made those pitches look decent.
Haven’t watched too many matches from Pakistan. But the few i did watch, pitches were pretty flat.
So don’t think India was unique in having flat pitches.
Looks like today’s loss really got you.
 
EliteCynical said:
Foster, Fowler, Gatting at Chennai.. Has to be one of the best wins for England. Lone bright spot for India was the debut of Azhar, who scored 3 hundreds in his first three tests, a feat still unparalleled, prompting Allan Lamb to say "Batting is like ________ to him, does it so easily"
Click to expand...

Sure, it was a pretty weak England team - no Gooch, Botham, Emburey, Knott, Old and JK Lever, and Willis retired. I still don't know how they managed to beat a full-strength Indian side in India, especially coming back from 0-1 down. Gatting managed to overcome his test mental block and was like a river in flood. I listened as a teenager to BBC Radio as the signal phased in and out, with that odd clapping style the Indian crowds did back then.
 
Last edited:
the_outsider said:
That's not true. Warne and Murali came to India multiple times between 1998 and 2012.

But yeah Swann and Panesar bowled really well. And Cook and KP were brilliant too.

But that Indian team wasn't strong either. Dravid and VVS had retired. Sachin, Sehwag and Harbhajan were in their last year of international cricket. And Kohli was in his first year of test cricket.

England played very well but that was the weakest Indian test team in the last 15 years.
Click to expand...

I said spin attack
Warne came with Gavin Robertson in 1998
Warne came alone in 2001
Warne came with Hauritz in 2004
Murali was almost always the lone warrior.

Yes, all valid points you made, but 2011-12 was still an inexcusable loss after being 1-0 up. The hunger to get back for the 4-0 in 2011 was so high, that India played right into their hands by laying tracks suiting their spinners. Heck, even Jimmy was able to bowl those cutters and reverse swing better than our quicks. Was a painful series to watch. It was not the weakest Indian team in 15 years because they would go on to win 4-0 vs the Australians in a few months time, which had never happened before.
 
Robert said:
Sure, it was a pretty weak England team - no Gooch, Botham, Emburey, Knott, Old and JK Lever, and Willis retired. I still don't know how they managed to beat a full-strength Indian side in India, especially coming back from 0-1 down. Gatting managed to overcome his test mental block and was like a river in flood. I listened as a teenager to BBC Radio as the signal phased in and out, with that odd clapping style the Indian crowds did back then.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Wonderful result for Gower and England. There was a lot of infighting in Indian camp is what i read. Kapil Dev had played a rash shot in one of the tests and hence was dropped for the next test (the only test he missed in his 131 test career). Rumor has it that Gavaskar was insecure that Kapil would go on to break his record of most consecutive appearances for India!

There was also friction between Gavaskar and Dilip Doshi. Doshi, in his biography 'spin punch' has made that fairly clear.
 
the_outsider said:
If this is from 1970 onwards, then India has won 65.6% of home series and Australia has won 69.3% of their home series.
Click to expand...

Sachin136 said:
52/75 (69%) series wins for Australia and 42/63 (67%) series wins for India.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

So both teams have done almost equally well at home when it comes to series despite Aus having better W/L.
 
Words like greatest, best ever makes your Bhaijaan cringe. Why cant people just be great? Why does it have to become a comparison always.

Most people will acknowledge India's been a real dominant home team over the last many decades even during times they had a rather average team. Its a great achievement. That should be it.
 
EliteCynical said:
Indeed. Wonderful result for Gower and England. There was a lot of infighting in Indian camp is what i read. Kapil Dev had played a rash shot in one of the tests and hence was dropped for the next test (the only test he missed in his 131 test career). Rumor has it that Gavaskar was insecure that Kapil would go on to break his record of most consecutive appearances for India!

There was also friction between Gavaskar and Dilip Doshi. Doshi, in his biography 'spin punch' has made that fairly clear.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and Gavaskar seemed to have a problem against Norman Cowans’ pace, which was odd given that he had a double century against the WI pace quartet a year earlier.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Words like greatest, best ever makes your Bhaijaan cringe. Why cant people just be great? Why does it have to become a comparison always.

Most people will acknowledge India's been a real dominant home team over the last many decades even during times they had a rather average team. Its a great achievement. That should be it.
Click to expand...

Is that why you started this thread? http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?274017-Is-Pakistan-the-greatest-cricket-nation-ever
 
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