I agree about Bumrah... We had better Test Bowlers than him... Srinath, Kapil, Zaheer and even Ishant, Shami, Umesh were better than him... They bowled their hearts out and never got fatigue or lost fitness... Once I though that Bumrah would be playing only LOIs, but when he clicked in tests (and that is when he was starting to get recognition as ATG) I thought he is something special and India found a rare-legend/ATG in "fast bowling" department. But now its disheartening to see (especially what you have mentioned - 46 tests after 31 years age is a poor number)...
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England vs India | 2nd Test | Edgbaston | July 02-06 | Pre-Match Discussion
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sweep_shot
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Agree. Top post.
Bumrah gets pampered like a baby. He only plays certain games to avoid "injuries" and keep his average high.
If he was playing more like Starc, Rabada, Cummins, Hazlewood, Shaheen etc. do, his average probably would've taken a beating.
His average is inflated because he picks and chooses which games he wants to play.
India should have been careful about Birmingham pitch... Last time also they lost a test in the same way here... All the more reason for India to be ultra-cautious and take the game out of the hands of England... They should have scored more than 600 runs in the first innings (by batting normally with bit of aggressive intent) OR should have spent more time in 2nd innings (if setting 450+ was not possible).
Nothing shame in taking defensive approach (draw result), when you are a touring team there is nothing wrong in "draw" as your primary favorable result and then see if there is a chance to win (especially if a pitch looks flatter as this patch, then you should look a chance to draw the match). So India somehow set a target of 500+ in this match and couldn't able to pick 10 English Wickets, then its fair enough and we could have settled for a draw!
These things should be kept in mind even with remaining matches in this series... Also find a way to select 4 proper (full-time attacking) bowlers first, and then fancy going for 5th bowler... Don't pick 3 bowlers and then try to balance with bits & piece players... Jadeja's bowling cannot be relied in away-tests AND Thakur's both batting & bowling cannot be relied...
Nothing shame in taking defensive approach (draw result), when you are a touring team there is nothing wrong in "draw" as your primary favorable result and then see if there is a chance to win (especially if a pitch looks flatter as this patch, then you should look a chance to draw the match). So India somehow set a target of 500+ in this match and couldn't able to pick 10 English Wickets, then its fair enough and we could have settled for a draw!
These things should be kept in mind even with remaining matches in this series... Also find a way to select 4 proper (full-time attacking) bowlers first, and then fancy going for 5th bowler... Don't pick 3 bowlers and then try to balance with bits & piece players... Jadeja's bowling cannot be relied in away-tests AND Thakur's both batting & bowling cannot be relied...
harshjoshi87
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Jadeja should be dropped, even Siraj. Both have lost their abilities to pick wickets. Kuldeep & Arshdeep should play. Nitish should replace IPL flat track bully Sudarshan who averages 39 in Ranji Trophy. Karun can bat at #3.
mominsaigol
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@Rajdeep Bro please make another prediction.
I have noticed that @sweep_shot always jinxes things but whenever you have overhyped such as
Only rain can save England, or I can see Rohit smashing aus in BGT and crying as he lifts the wtc and retires as the greatest of all time India has suffered brutal defeats
.
Infact they've been one sided massacres.
Please please say India will destroy england, I can only picture Gill walking around with a smug look as England is mentally defeated and scarred from the beating they are about to undertake
I have noticed that @sweep_shot always jinxes things but whenever you have overhyped such as
Only rain can save England, or I can see Rohit smashing aus in BGT and crying as he lifts the wtc and retires as the greatest of all time India has suffered brutal defeats
.Infact they've been one sided massacres.
Please please say India will destroy england, I can only picture Gill walking around with a smug look as England is mentally defeated and scarred from the beating they are about to undertake
You dont need cricket experts like me to spell out the obvious things. It is simply not possible for team like India to lose 2 BTB tests and that too against this poor English side. Remember, we dropped multiple catches in last game and played very poor cricket overall...even then we lost the game only in final hour. A little bit of application and minor team changes meaning we beat England on most days.@Rajdeep Bro please make another prediction.
I have noticed that @sweep_shot always jinxes things but whenever you have overhyped such as
Only rain can save England, or I can see Rohit smashing aus in BGT and crying as he lifts the wtc and retires as the greatest of all time India has suffered brutal defeats
Infact they've been one sided massacres.
Please please say India will destroy england, I can only picture Gill walking around with a smug look as England is mentally defeated and scarred from the beating they are about to undertake
Rajdeep's prediction - Easy win coming for India in second test.
RidiculousMan
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India have only won 1 of their last 9 Test matches. Not that invincible huh?
mominsaigol
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Thank you for your prediction. I am now confident my brother @sweep_shot can speak freely.You dont need cricket experts like me to spell out the obvious things. It is simply not possible for team like India to lose 2 BTB tests and that too against this poor English side. Remember, we dropped multiple catches in last game and played very poor cricket overall...even then we lost the game only in final hour. A little bit of application and minor team changes meaning we beat England on most days.
Rajdeep's prediction - Easy win coming for India in second test.
My manager is going Day 1 of Lords test and taking his dad as well as its his birthday. I told him that I am a fairweather cricket fan and mostly support England. What does he know...what all we discuss here...phew!!
mominsaigol
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It's cause their batting, bowling and fielding is a joke in test cricket.
They are the no 1 t20 side in the world. They are beatable in odi but icc rigged CT beyond belief. Wc 2023 was also rigged but for once the pitch didnt play in their favour in the final, to this day they are crying as to why they didn't rig the final pitch properly lol.
In test they are a joke. They would have loat all their matches if they didnt rig their pitches. Kohli era they were a top side and very difficult to beat but post that era they have been a fraudulent team at home.
Once ashwin and jadeja loat their mojo at home den, they got brutally exposed.
They only have 2 test batters in actuality. Jaiswal and Pant and one bowler in Bumrah. 3 players only.
However jaiswal is not as good as people claim. Jaiswal is a monster at home but his batting is completly unsuited vs Eng, Nz and Aus who play at a faster rate especially england while jaiswal plays test in a classical fashion and refuses to adjust.
Pant is very good, Bumrah (chucking allegations aside, I believe he is a chucker) is very good as well
mominsaigol
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Why would your manager give a crap about who your support? Why on earth would work life be mixed with Internet forumn lifeMy manager is going Day 1 of Lords test and taking his dad as well as its his birthday. I told him that I am a fairweather cricket fan and mostly support England. What does he know...what all we discuss here...phew!!
Bumrah's fitness problems are a self-perpetuated and a product of his action. Yes the action is unique, next to little cues for the batsmen etc etc.
However it's simply not a sustainable template for others to follow, putting a massive amount of strain on the body generating pace from a run-up not much longer than a spinner. Not saying you can't be successful but it curtails your longevity.
Richard Hadlee is far more qualified to speak on this than me and he's said the same thing.
Frankly from a personal POV, it's also an eyesore to watch and I hope we don't see future generations trying to replicate it.
However it's simply not a sustainable template for others to follow, putting a massive amount of strain on the body generating pace from a run-up not much longer than a spinner. Not saying you can't be successful but it curtails your longevity.
Richard Hadlee is far more qualified to speak on this than me and he's said the same thing.
Frankly from a personal POV, it's also an eyesore to watch and I hope we don't see future generations trying to replicate it.
cricfan432
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theres no need to waste bumrah on these flat pitches.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Justcrazy
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He had to , if he plays , you cannot stop him after a certain number of overs. He was never going to play all tests.
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Why can't India go with an extra all rounder to manage the Bumrah workload instead
mominsaigol
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You dont get it. It has nothing to do with managing work loads and more to do with Bumrah being a
Justcrazy
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No , India already lost a game , they should not downgrade the bowling , instead should look to have a bowling good enough to take 20 wickets.
In the famous series in Australia , when India was out for 36 runs only , India in next test added a specialist bowler .
If you play both sharadul and reddy together , bowling will be hampered more.
Ideally If I was Indian captain , I would go with following XI
Jaiswal
Rahul
Nair
Gill
Pant
Jurel
Reddy
kuldeep
Arshdeep
Siraj
Prasidha
If you play Jurel he can keep , no need to put pressure on Pant , relieve him of WK and let him play as a pure batsman.
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I have not seen Pant doing fielding even once.. Pant is a keeper only.
I think Arhsdeep and akash should come in though... batting is fine.
Justcrazy
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Keeper has to be alert on every ball , he is going up and down throughout the day.
As a batter he got hundreds in both innings , why would you not want to play him as a batter ? Moreover someone like Jurel also will get a chance .
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This is what I said.... Pant is a keeper... He cannot field in the outfield and run. He should play as a keeper.... Jurel can come in and field if India needs him...
harshjoshi87
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It won't be that easy. India will be without Bumrah & our top 5 which did well in 1st test will now have to face injury prone Jofra Archer.You dont need cricket experts like me to spell out the obvious things. It is simply not possible for team like India to lose 2 BTB tests and that too against this poor English side. Remember, we dropped multiple catches in last game and played very poor cricket overall...even then we lost the game only in final hour. A little bit of application and minor team changes meaning we beat England on most days.
Rajdeep's prediction - Easy win coming for India in second test.
If India hopes of defeating this English side, they have to drop deadwood like Jadeja & trundlers Siraj, Prasidh. Arshdeep & Kuldeep should play all remaining 4 test matches.
Gill did lot of tactical mistakes on the 5th day of the 1st test, should set attacking fields. Jaiswal should be dropped for his clown like behavior after his century.
Justcrazy
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Why cannot a WK field ? There are many WK who play as a pure batter !
Justcrazy
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India have won without Bumrah before, you can do that again. For that you need to play to your potential .
If you are dependent on one or two players , I am sorry this should not be a national team . Others who are in the squad also are playing first class to get the opportunity to play at the highest level. This is their opportunity , you have to show you belong here and are not a domestic material only.
Jofra Archer is a grossly overrated bowler , he is an injury freak and he is averaging over 30 in 13 tests , with only 42 wickets. Indian batters will be more bothered if there is a swing and seam .
mominsaigol
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In tests? In odi and t20 they are a strong team even without bumrah.
Not the case in tests though. Its time to accept that India's dark era started from NZ tour.
They may win at home and vs minnows but they are effectively a no 5 ranked test team below Sena and have a flat chance in hell of winning WTC or beating these teams away from home.
RidiculousMan
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Can this be a ploy? Can India deceive England?
England will surely go for a more spicier pitch given the upcoming absence of Bumrah. This can be an opportunity for India to lay low and bring out the big Bumrah during match day on a spicier wicket.
England will surely go for a more spicier pitch given the upcoming absence of Bumrah. This can be an opportunity for India to lay low and bring out the big Bumrah during match day on a spicier wicket.
Justcrazy
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I did not say India will win or not , what I am saying at the International level is that you will miss certain players , that should not be any excuse , the others have to step up. Otherwise what is the point of playing cricket so long at the domestic level. You have to play with whatever team is available to you.
mominsaigol
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I'm aware of what you said, but their is a difference between reality and fantasy.
India's only chance of winning was Bumrah + Kohli.
The reason being is because despite kphli's rubbish form in 6 years, their was always pressure around him. If he got going he would win games. Same case with Bumrah who can dismantle oppositions on his given day.
We saw this in Perth test. However now Kohli is gone. In other words the current crop of batters can at best muster a draw.
The bowlers are rubbish and now india is in for a massive beating as bumrah is absent. The fielding is a joke. Playing with jaiswal = playing with 10 fielders. He aint ever improving his bowling lol.
The batters are solid but the tail is so weak batting wise its hilarious. Bangaldesh tail enders bat better then indian tail enders in test cricket.
The top 6 batters need to have a field day to muster a draw. Otherwise india is losing all its games excluding the ones where bumrah has a field day
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