Players who are worse than their stats suggest

[RedwoodOriginal]

Think he wasn't really better than the likes of Atherton or Nasser. Always thought he went missing when the pressure was on especially outside England. Don't know how he ended up with a 40+ batting average. Even in the ashes 05, he was England's worst batter in the top 6 if my memory serves right. He had a beautiful cover drive and was a very good captain and tactician. Apart from that, he was given ODI captaincy without having anything to show for. Was a bit too injury prone for a batter. Was always getting injured somehow. Missed the Indian tour 06, missed half pakistan tour 05 and then full series in 2006. Managed to get back in england's 07 wc squad when Joyce and Loye had just led them to a CB series win.

I disagree I thought he was far better than both Nasser and Atherton. Both of whom could be quite miserable to watch on occasions. It was't for nothing that Atherton was nicknamed "cockroach" by the Australians. Vaughan had an incredible peak from 2002-04. Belted 600+ runs in the 2002 Ashes against one of the ATG Australian bowling attacks and was England's only bright spot in that series. Infact 2002 was a banner year for him where he dominated the batting charts and many were even calling him the best batsman in the world. He has pretty good records in Australia and India where English batsmen have traditionally struggled. His batting tended to be up and down when he became captain. But an average of 41 is a good reflection of him as a batsman. He was a very good batsman. If anything, I would call him underrated considering how he isn't as well remembered. Similar to Stephen Fleming who was also very underrated.

And as a captain ofcourse he is one of the best English captains of the 21st century.

 

[Rana]

Joginder sharma has won more icc trophies than Akhtar

And Kamran Akmal has more ICC trophies than Rizwan

Sarfaraz also

Check mate.

 

[Major]

And Kamran Akmal has more ICC trophies than Rizwan

Sarfaraz also

Check mate.

Where am i disagreeing?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I disagree I thought he was far better than both Nasser and Atherton. Both of whom could be quite miserable to watch on occasions. It was't for nothing that Atherton was nicknamed "cockroach" by the Australians. Vaughan had an incredible peak from 2002-04. Belted 600+ runs in the 2002 Ashes against one of the ATG Australian bowling attacks and was England's only bright spot in that series. Infact 2002 was a banner year for him where he dominated the batting charts and many were even calling him the best batsman in the world. He has pretty good records in Australia and India where English batsmen have traditionally struggled. His batting tended to be up and down when he became captain. But an average of 41 is a good reflection of him as a batsman. He was a very good batsman. If anything, I would call him underrated considering how he isn't as well remembered. Similar to Stephen Fleming who was also very underrated.

And as a captain ofcourse he is one of the best English captains of the 21st century.

That's just my opinion. Tresco was much better than him imo.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Ice Man @sweep_shot

Almost all Indian players are worse then their stats suggest.

The truth of the matter is that the most important trophy is the world cup. Every other trophy such as CT, t20 and even wtc are kinda irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Ashes + Odi world cup has always been the major staple point of success as well as beating the top teams of your era in their own den which is why AT, BGT and even other small time overseas test tours like Pakistan vs Aus in aus or PK vs Eng in england is significant. Sa is also included in this list.

The issue is most indian players is that while they have terrific stats and have dominated bi laterals, none of their players excluding Dhoni, Kapil dev and Yuvraj Singh have actually managed to achieve anything in terms of cups. When it comes to test series Kohli deserves credit but beyond that everyone else is crap.

As a result Indians like buffet or Jeet constantly live in cricinfo as they are devoid of qualitative analysis and in the case of devad, devoid of communication. Its because stats is all they have to cling onto.

In contrast the likes of Warner, Travis Head, Ponting, Gilchrist, Steve Smith, Starc, Glenn Mcgrath etc etc may have lesser stats then their tenda and Bumrah counterparts but all these boys have won one or multiple trophies and have achieved test dominance both home and away.

The irony is even the likes of Bumrah, Sachin etc etc would trade their career for the starc and Ponting in a heart beat.

You can't tell me with a straight face that Tendulkar wouldnt trade 100 -100 for 3 odi trophies in a row followed by having a damn near unbeatable classic Period for this team and wpuldnt wish to wipe out his captaincy record in exchange for Ponting.

Same case with Bumrah, Bumrah would trade his rubbish test curse + 2017 and 2023 botches for starc's 2015 and 2023 performance in a heartbeat.

 

[kron]

@Ice Man @sweep_shot

Almost all Indian players are worse then their stats suggest.

The truth of the matter is that the most important trophy is the world cup. Every other trophy such as CT, t20 and even wtc are kinda irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Ashes + Odi world cup has always been the major staple point of success as well as beating the top teams of your era in their own den which is why AT, BGT and even other small time overseas test tours like Pakistan vs Aus in aus or PK vs Eng in england is significant. Sa is also included in this list.

The issue is most indian players is that while they have terrific stats and have dominated bi laterals, none of their players excluding Dhoni, Kapil dev and Yuvraj Singh have actually managed to achieve anything in terms of cups. When it comes to test series Kohli deserves credit but beyond that everyone else is crap.

As a result Indians like buffet or Jeet constantly live in cricinfo as they are devoid of qualitative analysis and in the case of devad, devoid of communication. Its because stats is all they have to cling onto.

In contrast the likes of Warner, Travis Head, Ponting, Gilchrist, Steve Smith, Starc, Glenn Mcgrath etc etc may have lesser stats then their tenda and Bumrah counterparts but all these boys have won one or multiple trophies and have achieved test dominance both home and away.

The irony is even the likes of Bumrah, Sachin etc etc would trade their career for the starc and Ponting in a heart beat.

You can't tell me with a straight face that Tendulkar wouldnt trade 100 -100 for 3 odi trophies in a row followed by having a damn near unbeatable classic Period for this team and wpuldnt wish to wipe out his captaincy record in exchange for Ponting.

Same case with Bumrah, Bumrah would trade his rubbish test curse + 2017 and 2023 botches for starc's 2015 and 2023 performance in a heartbeat.

Indian batsmen. Are wildly overrated but Indian quicks are underrated as they play on trash pitches at home I would say

 

[Sachin fan]

In one thread when someone has different opinion you made a theory about their growth and the growth of Pakistan, now you have called people jealous and low IQ for not sharing your opinion. We are not obligated to do puja, light candles and do worship on these players to make you happy.

Bumrah will always be criticised for picking and choosing matches, all players go under the scanner who do this. We are not obliged to think of Sachin as any form of god like you do either.

There is no jealousy. Pakistanis of an older era will happily select Gavaskar as a tier 1 ATG despite him now becoming a BCCI stooge, and from the modern era we rate Kohli as an LOI ATG despite him pummeling us in every match.

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

And it's a perfect example of the mentality I was talking about

Dude you were so inferior to india during Kohli era of course you had no qualms in accepting his and indias superiority, particularly in batting . And by that time India's batting supremacy was never in question. Entire generations of Pakistanis had accepted India's batting supremacy by the time Kohli came.

But during most of Sachin's time your team was way better and Sachin stood during world cups etc and was the one good thing we had and was praised by every country which you were not ready to accept.

Cricket was way more nationalistic during that period and both country fans hated each other's guts more

The psychological is way obvious

Its the exact thing happening with Bumrah, swe finally have a ATG fast bowler after a long history of being average, who is being praised by everyone and the attacks have started, just like when we had with Sachin.

Its a carbon copy mentality.

With our continued bowling improvement, you will soon learn to accept it and praise new bowlers like you did with Kohli in batting.


I will again repeat,

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

 

[AMSS]

BABA Azam in LOIs.

Raina with his average in 30s is a tier above this statpadding fraud.

 

[mominsaigol]

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

And it's a perfect example of the mentality I was talking about

Dude you were so inferior to india during Kohli era of course you had no qualms in accepting his and indias superiority, particularly in batting . And by that time India's batting supremacy was never in question. Entire generations of Pakistanis had accepted India's batting supremacy by the time Kohli came.

But during most of Sachin's time your team was way better and Sachin stood during world cups etc and was the one good thing we had and was praised by every country which you were not ready to accept.

Cricket was way more nationalistic during that period and both country fans hated each other's guts more

The psychological is way obvious

Its the exact thing happening with Bumrah, swe finally have a ATG fast bowler after a long history of being average, who is being praised by everyone and the attacks have started, just like when we had with Sachin.

Its a carbon copy mentality.

With our continued bowling improvement, you will soon learn to accept it and praise new bowlers like you did with Kohli in batting.


I will again repeat,

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

This is where you are wrong.

Unless someone claims sachin is trash or a medicore batsmen then yes they are worth clowning.

However every Tom dick and Harry has pointed out that Sachin was a bit of a softie. It is a known fact that the likes of Kohli, Viv and even Ponting have more of an impact then sachin does in odi.

Similarly in tests he doesmt have a single innings that wisden or anyone acknowledges as a top tier match saving innings.

If the team performs well then Sachin as a batsmen elevates them, but if they are performing poorly as we saw during his captaincy stint then sachin often falters.

The only time sachin played a fighting knock was vs Pakistan in 2003 and vs Sri Lanka in 2007 where he was a lone warrior.

Otherwise he had virtually no impact for 2011 and whether he existed or not wouldn't have made a difference. Excluding Pakistan, his 2 centuries led to a loss or a draw for india.

2003 and 2011 were the most important matches of his career in odi and he botched it. In tests he doesnt have a single.innings where you can consider him to be special.

Another thing that people ignore is that sachin also played in a batting g friendly test era where draws ans large scores where more common as evidence by past data + a hack like afridi avg 37 in test cricket lol.

Sachin is a fabulous batsmen and top 5 of all time but his biggest issue is that he sucks during pressure situations excluding Pakistan in odi where he would always show up. And in tests he was a softie.

Dravid and Laxman while inferior test batters had more mental grit and fortitude to save their team and win games then sachin did. Similarly Ponting, Gilly and Hayden in odi had more spine and were more clutch then sachin was.

2003 is a valid point. India probs wouldnt have chased it down but to get out on 0 while sehwag could play a fighting knock is embarrassing.

In odi 2007 vs Sri Lanka and his Pakistan knocks in 2003 + 2007 are his best innings followed by the desert storm knock vs Australia but that was without mcgrath.

In tests he has no saving knocks or independent atg knocks, only contributing atg knocks.

 

[kron]

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

And it's a perfect example of the mentality I was talking about

Dude you were so inferior to india during Kohli era of course you had no qualms in accepting his and indias superiority, particularly in batting . And by that time India's batting supremacy was never in question. Entire generations of Pakistanis had accepted India's batting supremacy by the time Kohli came.

But during most of Sachin's time your team was way better and Sachin stood during world cups etc and was the one good thing we had and was praised by every country which you were not ready to accept.

Cricket was way more nationalistic during that period and both country fans hated each other's guts more

The psychological is way obvious

Its the exact thing happening with Bumrah, swe finally have a ATG fast bowler after a long history of being average, who is being praised by everyone and the attacks have started, just like when we had with Sachin.

Its a carbon copy mentality.

With our continued bowling improvement, you will soon learn to accept it and praise new bowlers like you did with Kohli in batting.


I will again repeat,

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

Deadly venom is Bangladeshi lol

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

FTB lmao..

Gill and Jaiswal both already have more away Test hundreds than Babar who has been playing since 2016. Only FTB is Bobzy za king who stat padded odi centuries against SL/WI on dead UAE wickets at 70 SR. Sit down...

Babar's test century in Sri Lanka is better than anything those two clowns have done on a turning wicket. Babar stopped Cummins, Hazlewod, Starc in their tracks for close to 200 overs and saved a game. These were the same bowlers who were getting Kholi out like he was a Haryana club cricketer. 31 centuries mate. Sit down...

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

This is where you are wrong.

Unless someone claims sachin is trash or a medicore batsmen then yes they are worth clowning.

However every Tom dick and Harry has pointed out that Sachin was a bit of a softie. It is a known fact that the likes of Kohli, Viv and even Ponting have more of an impact then sachin does in odi.

Similarly in tests he doesmt have a single innings that wisden or anyone acknowledges as a top tier match saving innings.

If the team performs well then Sachin as a batsmen elevates them, but if they are performing poorly as we saw during his captaincy stint then sachin often falters.

The only time sachin played a fighting knock was vs Pakistan in 2003 and vs Sri Lanka in 2007 where he was a lone warrior.

Otherwise he had virtually no impact for 2011 and whether he existed or not wouldn't have made a difference. Excluding Pakistan, his 2 centuries led to a loss or a draw for india.

2003 and 2011 were the most important matches of his career in odi and he botched it. In tests he doesnt have a single.innings where you can consider him to be special.

Another thing that people ignore is that sachin also played in a batting g friendly test era where draws ans large scores where more common as evidence by past data + a hack like afridi avg 37 in test cricket lol.

Sachin is a fabulous batsmen and top 5 of all time but his biggest issue is that he sucks during pressure situations excluding Pakistan in odi where he would always show up. And in tests he was a softie.

Dravid and Laxman while inferior test batters had more mental grit and fortitude to save their team and win games then sachin did. Similarly Ponting, Gilly and Hayden in odi had more spine and were more clutch then sachin was.

2003 is a valid point. India probs wouldnt have chased it down but to get out on 0 while sehwag could play a fighting knock is embarrassing.

In odi 2007 vs Sri Lanka and his Pakistan knocks in 2003 + 2007 are his best innings followed by the desert storm knock vs Australia but that was without mcgrath.

In tests he has no saving knocks or independent atg knocks, only contributing atg knocks.

@Ice Man which one you mean mate?

 

[Ice Man]

@Ice Man which one you mean mate?

What do you mean, retar..err..Devadwal?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

And it's a perfect example of the mentality I was talking about

Dude you were so inferior to india during Kohli era of course you had no qualms in accepting his and indias superiority, particularly in batting . And by that time India's batting supremacy was never in question. Entire generations of Pakistanis had accepted India's batting supremacy by the time Kohli came.

But during most of Sachin's time your team was way better and Sachin stood during world cups etc and was the one good thing we had and was praised by every country which you were not ready to accept.

Cricket was way more nationalistic during that period and both country fans hated each other's guts more

The psychological is way obvious

Its the exact thing happening with Bumrah, swe finally have a ATG fast bowler after a long history of being average, who is being praised by everyone and the attacks have started, just like when we had with Sachin.

Its a carbon copy mentality.

With our continued bowling improvement, you will soon learn to accept it and praise new bowlers like you did with Kohli in batting.


I will again repeat,

If any cricket fan claims Sachin is over rated he either knows nothing about cricket or is simply jealous.

Yes he is overrated. He is not the greatest batsman by any metric available apart from playing a lot more cricket than anybody else. Nor is he a god of the game.

But he is one of the greats of the game.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

What do you mean, retar..err..Devadwal?

You mentioned ODI 2007 vs SL, can you mention which one? Was it the WC where he scored a duck?

 

[Ice Man]

You mentioned ODI 2007 vs SL, can you mention which one? Was it the WC where he scored a duck?

Are you too afraid to ask @mominsaigol, Devadwal?

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Are you too afraid to ask @mominsaigol, Devadwal?

My bad I thought you were the same. Devadwal wishes he was me, his English is closer to yours mate

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Deadly venom is Bangladeshi lol

@DeadlyVenom is this true? Or are Indians making up stuff again? @Bhaag Viru Bhaag @sweep_shot

 

[Hellion]

Babar's ODI record. As useless as they come.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Ice Man which one you mean mate?

@Ice Man Not 2007, their was a match where Tendulkar played a fighting knock but india lost.

The timelines get a bit fuzzy for me. 2007 was a horrible outing for tenda. One of the worst all time.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

@Ice Man Not 2007, their was a match where Tendulkar played a fighting knock but india lost.

The timelines get a bit fuzzy for me. 2007 was a horrible outing for tenda. One of the worst all time.

Pull up your socks bro, you claim random timelines and @Devadwal will be onto like a rash. As a proud Aussie you don't want that.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom is this true? Or are Indians making up stuff again? @Bhaag Viru Bhaag @sweep_shot

I am a Pakistani.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I am a Pakistani.

That's what I thought. @kron probably wants Bangladeshi citizenship given their current batsmen seem to be better against spin than Indians.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pull up your socks bro, you claim random timelines and @Devadwal will be onto like a rash. As a proud Aussie you don't want that.

He can come onto me if he wishes. Chances are I wont be able to understand him therefore we won't be able to have a troll fest drama.

In order for a heated war of words to commence, one needs to actually understand the words that are being written.

 

[Rajdeep]

Waqar Younis - never rated that guy. He will be Haris Rauf level bowler in modern era.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

My English is on a different level (no offense sister.)

No one disagrees. You are in a world of your own. Too bad the planet is barren and a wasteland. And it accommodates solo residents such as yourself.

Impeccable analysis sister just like Tendulker's knock vs SL in 2007 as you claimed. Thank you for your contribution dear sister.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Waqar Younis - never rated that guy. He will be Haris Rauf level bowler in modern era.

An ATG greater than anyone India, BD and SL have produced. Sit down.

 

[Rajdeep]

An ATG greater than anyone India, BD and SL have produced. Sit down.

Bumrah is better that any fast bowler Pak produced in history, let alone Waqar.

'Bumrah is better than all of us' - Legendary Pakistan speedster showers praise on India's spearhead | Cricket News - Times of India

Cricket News: Aakash Chopra recounted Waqar Younis's high praise for Jasprit Bumrah, asserting that the Indian pacer surpasses even Wasim Akram in skill and strateg

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

That aside, we Indians dont rate Waqar simply because he was never good against us - 1996 WC smashed, 1999 WC benched, 2003 WC smashed. One can only imagine how he would fare in modern era with smaller boundaries, 1 new ball and bigger bats.

We rate Akhtar much higher.

 

[kron]

That's what I thought. @kron probably wants Bangladeshi citizenship given their current batsmen seem to be better against spin than Indians.

I confused him with someone else then

And why in the world would anyone want Bangladeshi citizenship? Or Pakistani for the matter. You can keep it.

 

[kron]

Bumrah is better that any fast bowler Pak produced in history, let alone Waqar.

'Bumrah is better than all of us' - Legendary Pakistan speedster showers praise on India's spearhead | Cricket News - Times of India

Cricket News: Aakash Chopra recounted Waqar Younis's high praise for Jasprit Bumrah, asserting that the Indian pacer surpasses even Wasim Akram in skill and strateg

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

That aside, we Indians dont rate Waqar simply because he was never good against us - 1996 WC smashed, 1999 WC benched, 2003 WC smashed. One can only imagine how he would fare in modern era with smaller boundaries, 1 new ball and bigger bats.

We rate Akhtar much higher.

None of any Asian pacer is on bumrahs level

Brutal truth

 

[Mesozoic]

Babar's test century in Sri Lanka is better than anything those two clowns have done on a turning wicket. Babar stopped Cummins, Hazlewod, Starc in their tracks for close to 200 overs and saved a game. These were the same bowlers who were getting Kholi out like he was a Haryana club cricketer. 31 centuries mate. Sit down...

"Those two clowns* are still 25 and under and haven't even played in Sri Lanka or any "turning " conditions yet. Bottom line is this...Gill's 400 run match winning tally at Edgebaston is already out of Babar Azam's auqaat. Don't even start me about Jaiswal who is just 23 and already has 2 match winning SENA hundreds another one in WI.

Meanwhile your favorite "clown" hasn't hit a single international hundred for two whole years ever since he smashed mighty Nepal. That's his level unfortunately (for you). Stop quoting me unless you have self ownage kink.