Polygamy in Muslim personal law misinterpretated, says Gujarat HC

[MenInG]

Lol, in this "civil society" you can have multiple lovers, you can have one night stands every week, you can have reality shows and pornographic movies where women are just used as toys, but whenever it comes to muslim laws, they start talking about 'civil society'. Do you think having two wives can be achieved by snap of the fingers? Go and educate yourself on the conditions and you will understand a bit more about the subject.

Must say even by regular BJP type standards, this no place in civilized society type statement is shocking.

 

[Local.Dada]

Lol, in this "civil society" you can have multiple lovers, you can have one night stands every week, you can have reality shows and pornographic movies where women are just used as toys, but whenever it comes to muslim laws, they start talking about 'civil society'. Do you think having two wives can be achieved by snap of the fingers? Go and educate yourself on the conditions and you will understand a bit more about the subject.

One night stands happen between 2 consenting adults. You may have a moral stand on it but it is what it is.How many outstanding citizens of the society do you know who have multiple spouses? Do you know how much exploitation happens misusing this. Old bearded men with multiple wives some very young women too. No thanks. That’s not my idea of a civil society.

Now please don’t say some Taliban leader as a great man because no rest of the world doesn’t think of them as civilized.

 

[MenInG]

One night stands happen between 2 consenting adults. You may have a moral stand on it but it is what it is.How many outstanding citizens of the society do you know who have multiple spouses? Do you know how much exploitation happens misusing this. Old bearded men with multiple wives some very young women too. No thanks. That’s not my idea of a civil society.

Now please don’t say some Taliban leader as a great man because no rest of the world doesn’t think of them as civilized.

You are losing it.

Don't come up with rubbish arguments about Islam.

We are talking about Polygamy which is permitted in Islam under strict conditions. If people dont follow/misuse rules then that is their problem.

 

[Local.Dada]

You are losing it.

Don't come up with rubbish arguments about Islam.

We are talking about Polygamy which is permitted in Islam under strict conditions. If people dont follow/misuse rules then that is their problem.

Is it a compulsory rule to have multiple spouses in Islam?

Is there polygamy among Muslims living in the west?

Stop looking at everything from a religious lenses. I am sure you know it’s mostly the poor sections of the society in developing nations that still use this polygamy card. Can you name me one famous Muslim from the current generation who has multiple wives? I am not talking about some sultan but a regular celebrity. I am waiting.

Not sure your problem is Indians saying it shouldn’t be allowed or if you actually believe polygamy is fine.

 

[MenInG]

Is it a compulsory rule to have multiple spouses in Islam?

Is there polygamy among Muslims living in the west?

Stop looking at everything from a religious lenses. I am sure you know it’s mostly the poor sections of the society in developing nations that still use this polygamy card. Can you name me one famous Muslim from the current generation who has multiple wives? I am not talking about some sultan but a regular celebrity. I am waiting.

Not sure your problem is Indians saying it shouldn’t be allowed or if you actually believe polygamy is fine.

It is not compulsory but its not Haram either.

My problem is when people pick up something from Islam without understanding context and history and use it to denigrate Islam or Muslims which seems to be the way to go in BJP India.

 

[RajBan]

Having a second or third wife is an option it's not obligatory. Islamic laws are very flexible and have solutions for various issues that we face in our day-to-day lives. Polygamy has been part of every major religion, Islam has only restricted it to four wives.

Ok. You are going in a different direction. Probably you are not yet married or married but getting a lucky run so far .

 

[moghul]

The condition put forward for man to have another wife simply cannot be met today and polygamy should be banned in Pakistan as in Western countries. The first condition was to get permission from the first wife. Can a man will allow his wife to have another husband, never. Women are no different , no women would share her husband with another woman . Mullahs and other people have always have twisted Islam for their own benefit. You can get away with murder , using Islam as your defence.

I have not found anything in Islam which would not make sense, so I don;t think polygamy is allowed in Islam just for men to have fun or to have sex with multiple women .

 

[topspin]

The condition put forward for man to have another wife simply cannot be met today and polygamy should be banned in Pakistan as in Western countries. The first condition was to get permission from the first wife. Can a man will allow his wife to have another husband, never. Women are no different , no women would share her husband with another woman . Mullahs and other people have always have twisted Islam for their own benefit. You can get away with murder , using Islam as your defence.

I have not found anything in Islam which would not make sense, so I don;t think polygamy is allowed in Islam just for men to have fun or to have sex with multiple women .

100% agree and it's correct.

I remember asking my dad about the polygamy in Islam and his response alluded to your last sentence.

Rich men (particularly Arabs) have misused polygamy law in Islam merely to pursue their sexual desires.

 

[shaaik]

This is what Quran says about marriage (polygamy or Monogamy) :

The verse most commonly referred to with the topic of polygamy is Verse 3 of Surah 4 An-Nisa (Women). A translation by Yusuf Ali is shown below:

If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3[1]
It is believed these Verses were revealed after the Battle of Uhud, in which many Muslim men were killed, leaving widows and orphans. Thus, many argue that these Verses have been revealed "because of Allah's concern for the welfare of women and orphans who were left without husbands and fathers who died fighting for the Prophet and for Islam. It is a verse about compassion towards women and their children; it is not about men or their sexuality."[2]

In the second part of Verse 4:3, the Qu’ran states "but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."[1] If a man cannot deal justly with more than one wife, then he must marry only one. It is clear that this quote was revealed out of compassion towards women, and not as a means to please male sexuality, which is a common modern interpretation of such verses.[3]

I think Quran is the only religious book that makes it absolutely clear for men to marry one and only allows men to marry more than one woman is when the man can treat and deal with his wives equally and I don’t know who can do that. This clearly shows Islam only encourages polygamy in special circumstances.if you are marry more than one and don’t treat them equally, you are sinning according to Quran.

 

[Itachi]

I think Quran is the only religious book that makes it absolutely clear for men to marry one and only allows men to marry more than one woman is when the man can treat and deal with his wives equally and I don’t know who can do that. This clearly shows Islam only encourages polygamy in special circumstances.if you are marry more than one and don’t treat them equally, you are sinning according to Quran.

So am I correct in my assumption that Quran ultimately leaves the decision which could affect others lives to men who are imperfect by nature and is prone to make mistakes.

I can be in delusion that I can treat 3-4 girls happy so I have every right to to keep 4 girls by my side. But does that necessarily translate in to reality though?

 

[moghul]

Treat women equally , if men don;t want to share their wife with other men, how a women can share his man with another women , in his age and days its non-sense and cruelty with with the first wife to have more than one wife by making religion an excuse.

Just ask or see how many other teachings of Islam they are following .

 

[Varun]

Does the West allow Muslims to marry 3 wives?

 

[MenInG]

Does the West allow Muslims to marry 3 wives?

No -

Legally its not done

However, since Sharia allows it, Muslims if they wish can go to an Imam of a mosque to have that wedding. But its not marriage in the eyes of the state, therefore no legal recourse available incase of dispute or rights etc.

 

[MenInG]

Treat women equally , if men don;t want to share their wife with other men, how a women can share his man with another women , in his age and days its non-sense and cruelty with with the first wife to have more than one wife by making religion an excuse.

Just ask or see how many other teachings of Islam they are following .

I agree.

 

[MenInG]

100% agree and it's correct.

I remember asking my dad about the polygamy in Islam and his response alluded to your last sentence.

Rich men (particularly Arabs) have misused polygamy law in Islam merely to pursue their sexual desires.

In Pakistan/India its not been done as much due to economic reasons and I believe the law which states that the other wives need to give consent.

 

[Justcrazy]

Ok. You are going in a different direction. Probably you are not yet married or married but getting a lucky run so far ��.

What was wrong in my statement?

Islam is the only major religion to restrict the number of wives

 

[Justcrazy]

The condition put forward for man to have another wife simply cannot be met today and polygamy should be banned in Pakistan as in Western countries. The first condition was to get permission from the first wife. Can a man will allow his wife to have another husband, never. Women are no different , no women would share her husband with another woman . Mullahs and other people have always have twisted Islam for their own benefit. You can get away with murder , using Islam as your defence.

I have not found anything in Islam which would not make sense, so I don;t think polygamy is allowed in Islam just for men to have fun or to have sex with multiple women .

Where is the first condition that you mentioned written , will you be kind enough to throw some light on that and enlighten me .

 

[Justcrazy]

100% agree and it's correct.

I remember asking my dad about the polygamy in Islam and his response alluded to your last sentence.

Rich men (particularly Arabs) have misused polygamy law in Islam merely to pursue their sexual desires.

When rich men have Girl friends , escorts , sugar babies , concubines , are they not form of sexual pleasure?

But when someone is given the status of a wife and gets entitled to property and maintenance of children, children are not called ******* , that is NOT acceptable.

 

[Justcrazy]

Does the West allow Muslims to marry 3 wives?

No , they do not , secular laws do not recognize religious laws. Its like Indian constitution will not accept Vedic laws or Manu Smriti , even if India becomes a Hindu nation , that will be intolerant to other religions but will never implement vedic laws .

Same way , they have secular laws ,NOT biblical laws , because in biblical laws there is NO restrictions to number of wives a man can have.

These secular laws want women to be treated as tissue paper , you can have GFs , sugar babies , concubines etc and have single mother living on tax payers money , but women cannot be in a respectful relation of being a wife .

This is the irony today we do not comprehend anything , because we are just here to object to whatever Islam says and we want to follow blindly the west . The west will determine all the standards , what we eat , what we wear , how we live , how we behave in bedroom , what should be the age of marriage etc !

Now your question , if a Muslim man wants to marry another wife , he needs to marry in masjid or by nikah , once nikah is done , man and woman are married in islam . Its like if a Hindu gets married in temple with their rituals. The court has no role to play.

 

[Justcrazy]

Its a commodity in the eyes of a non muslim. If there is 100% Muslims in a country, then it's not an issue. But Muslims don't live in isolation and you have to accept that sometimes the laws of the land will conflict with what Quran says.

But the Indian constitution gave freedom of religious practice, law of land cannot be made against it. This constitution was made by people who fought for Independence, what was today's RSS contribution?

I tell you to remember NO Power on earth can change the words of the Quran. You can make 10000 laws against Islam, you cannot take out Islam from the lives of Muslims.

 

[Itachi]

But the Indian constitution gave freedom of religious practice, law of land cannot be made against it. This constitution was made by people who fought for Independence, what was today's RSS contribution?

I tell you to remember NO Power on earth can change the words of the Quran. You can make 10000 laws against Islam, you cannot take out Islam from the lives of Muslims.

1. Freedom of religion is hold true as long as it doesn't conflict with existing secular laws. If any religious custom violates the secular laws, the freedom will be restricted on that particular context.

2. One does not need to change Quran. Quran can have its own place but if conflict occurs, the secular laws will get preference because most countries are not a isolated system of 100% Muslims but it's a mixture of demography.

Laws are not made with particularly keeping Islam in mind but in this case, it's just a co incidence. Moreover, does restricting ploygamy is taking Islam out of lives of Muslims?

Has Islam became the entity of symbol of polygamy only?

 

[topspin]

In Pakistan/India its not been done as much due to economic reasons and I believe the law which states that the other wives need to give consent.

Unfortunately Muslim men who desire multiple wives don't usually take any heed to this law.

For example, before I first met my fiancé, she once told me about a time when she was approached by an Arab in London, while his pregnant wife was at home in their native Saudi. This woman wasn't even aware that her husband was looking for a second wife.

Make no mistake these men do not care about Islam or Women's rights. They use their own twisted interpretation of Islam to chase their desires.

 

[moghul]

No wonder we have so many sects in Islam as everyone has his own interpretation of Islamic laws. Having a 2nd wife is the worst kind of oppression against women and I don;t believe any religion would allow that. I never heard a rich woman or a woman with power happily allowed her husband to marry another woman. Only poor and weak women become prey of this cruelty and worst of all, the "muslim" society does not help her.

 

[topspin]

When rich men have Girl friends , escorts , sugar babies , concubines , are they not form of sexual pleasure?

But when someone is given the status of a wife and gets entitled to property and maintenance of children, children are not called ******* , that is NOT acceptable.

I totally get your point, there is a clear double standard.

Guys like Hugh Hefner and Dan Blizerian live this kind of lifestyle and get admiration for it from the west. But this same crowd disapproves of Muslim men who have multiple wives.

But as Muslims we shouldn't be drawing comparisons with something that is bad. We should be setting the best example.

 

[Itachi]

I totally get your point, there is a clear double standard.

Guys like Hugh Hefner and Dan Blizerian live this kind of lifestyle and get admiration for it from the west. But this same crowd disapproves of Muslim men who have multiple wives.

But as Muslims we shouldn't be drawing comparisons with something that is bad. We should be setting the best example.

This is the main issue. People are more focused on how the society perceives the man than what was the life for those women.

Taking your example, the multiple playboy bunnies have reportedly stated how abusive their life was in the mansion to the extent that one called it as prison iirc.

How does that make any difference regardless what status the man had.

Some posters here focus so much emphasis on how different the society may perceive the men whilst the women in the picture faces the same consequences. But it's irony that, the consideration of the emotional status of these women never gets the much needed understanding.

 

[Justcrazy]

1. Freedom of religion is hold true as long as it doesn't conflict with existing secular laws. If any religious custom violates the secular laws, the freedom will be restricted on that particular context.

2. One does not need to change Quran. Quran can have its own place but if conflict occurs, the secular laws will get preference because most countries are not a isolated system of 100% Muslims but it's a mixture of demography.

Laws are not made with particularly keeping Islam in mind but in this case, it's just a co incidence. Moreover, does restricting ploygamy is taking Islam out of lives of Muslims?

Has Islam became the entity of symbol of polygamy only?

So far the existing secular law did not conflict with Islamic personal laws , all the religious customs were respected , even for hindus , why this sudden change ?

If a Muslim goes and does nikah in a masjid and does not register that , how it is conflicting the laws of land?

Allah gives option of polygamy , if it is allowed what is wrong in that , you need to show me what harm it does by giving an option , then only your statement will be valid.

Moreover as I said whatever laws are made it will not stop polygamy , Muslims obey Allah in personal laws , a thousand Modis will come and go , Islam will remain

 

[Justcrazy]

I totally get your point, there is a clear double standard.

Guys like Hugh Hefner and Dan Blizerian live this kind of lifestyle and get admiration for it from the west. But this same crowd disapproves of Muslim men who have multiple wives.

But as Muslims we shouldn't be drawing comparisons with something that is bad. We should be setting the best example.

To show the truth you need to give examples , my point is while criticizing Islam why the people resort to double standards , even in the other thread if a Moulvi does something wrong Madarssa should be banned , if an Oxford graduate does wrong , institution cannot be blamed !

 

[Justcrazy]

No wonder we have so many sects in Islam as everyone has his own interpretation of Islamic laws. Having a 2nd wife is the worst kind of oppression against women and I don;t believe any religion would allow that. I never heard a rich woman or a woman with power happily allowed her husband to marry another woman. Only poor and weak women become prey of this cruelty and worst of all, the "muslim" society does not help her.

Earlier you said that asking the first wife is a condition for marriage , yet so far you did not show any evidence , is that a condition that you made , if you have made it it is your own personal opinion.

Now you are saying that NO religion allows polygamy !

Again I would say kindly show your evidence , all major religions allowed polygamy

 

[topspin]

This is the main issue. People are more focused on how the society perceives the man than what was the life for those women.

Taking your example, the multiple playboy bunnies have reportedly stated how abusive their life was in the mansion to the extent that one called it as prison iirc.

How does that make any difference regardless what status the man had.

Some posters here focus so much emphasis on how different the society may perceive the men whilst the women in the picture faces the same consequences. But it's irony that, the consideration of the emotional status of these women never gets the much needed understanding.

100% agree - well said.

It's exactly why I felt the analogy made in relation to non-married men having sexual relationships with multiple women was unnecessary.

 

[Itachi]

So far the existing secular law did not conflict with Islamic personal laws , all the religious customs were respected , even for hindus , why this sudden change ?

If a Muslim goes and does nikah in a masjid and does not register that , how it is conflicting the laws of land?

Allah gives option of polygamy , if it is allowed what is wrong in that , you need to show me what harm it does by giving an option , then only your statement will be valid.

Moreover as I said whatever laws are made it will not stop polygamy , Muslims obey Allah in personal laws , a thousand Modis will come and go , Islam will remain

Islamic laws did conflict with constituitional clause of India and that's why Supreme Court did illagal/void the practice of triple talaq.

Secondly, if the marriage is registered under special marriage act, then a Muslim can not seek any provision from personal laws. It doesn't matter what religion he belongs to.

Personal laws will be there as long as it doesn't conflict with secular laws. If it does, then part III of Indian constitution will come in to play and will abolish it as it takes precedence than any other laws.

Moreover, polygamy exists not because Quran says so or God has stated so. It exists because of patriarchal society which existed even before Islam came in to the picture. It give the opportunity of exploitation and people tend to take benefits from it if there is no restriction in place.

Even many Muslims here are against polygamy. Are you saying that they are not a "good" Muslim since they are against polygamy?

 

[topspin]

Earlier you said that asking the first wife is a condition for marriage , yet so far you did not show any evidence , is that a condition that you made , if you have made it it is your own personal opinion.

Now you are saying that NO religion allows polygamy !

Again I would say kindly show your evidence , all major religions allowed polygamy

This is irrelevant. If you care and truly love your wife, no husband would even think about getting another wife let alone ask her for permission.

 

[Justcrazy]

This is irrelevant. If you care and truly love your wife, no husband would even think about getting another wife let alone ask her for permission.

So according to your logic prophet Muhammad did not care or love his wife so he had more than one wife ?

Brother , there are so many posters here , many of them Muslims , how many of them have more than one wife ? Islam as a religion is a living one and practical , it is merely giving an option .

For example, in Islam, there is a provision for divorce , does that mean it is wrong ? In Hindu religion you do not a divorce system , you need to understand that there are citcumstances where you need to get married again , if the provision is not there at all how will you find solution ?

 

[Justcrazy]

Islamic laws did conflict with constituitional clause of India and that's why Supreme Court did illagal/void the practice of triple talaq.

Secondly, if the marriage is registered under special marriage act, then a Muslim can not seek any provision from personal laws. It doesn't matter what religion he belongs to.

Personal laws will be there as long as it doesn't conflict with secular laws. If it does, then part III of Indian constitution will come in to play and will abolish it as it takes precedence than any other laws.

Moreover, polygamy exists not because Quran says so or God has stated so. It exists because of patriarchal society which existed even before Islam came in to the picture. It give the opportunity of exploitation and people tend to take benefits from it if there is no restriction in place.

Even many Muslims here are against polygamy. Are you saying that they are not a "good" Muslim since they are against polygamy?

There is a system to divorce and that is mentioned in the quran. It does not say that you can just say talaq three times and marriage is void. I myself agree with that.

Special marriage Act is when the parties of different religion. If a Muslim wants to go through that its his wish , when did I say that he cannot.

Then the personal laws should have been abolished long back , why the issue now?

If your logic is that in polygamy one group is taking advantage of the laws and exploiting others , then why you not applying same logic to other laws as well. You should have the same parameter.

I can show you cases where rape laws have been exploited in india and women have framed innocent men , section 498 has been used to harass innocent men. Are these laws not exploited by certain people ?

Muslims are against idol worship , so will you agree on that ? Brother we are discussing the pros and cons of polygamy here , whether polygamy should be banned or not. For a society to run properly you need to look at all aspects , you cannot just ban something out of nowhere .

For any marriage to take place in islam the women must agree to the marriage , if she is not okay with polygamy she has full right to refuse . Its not that it is done by force. If a widow or divorced woman who cannot find a suitor agrees to be second wife of a man , instead of living alone life , can you tell me what the issue is , and what solution does the Government provide her ?

 

[topspin]

So according to your logic prophet Muhammad did not care or love his wife so he had more than one wife ?

Brother , there are so many posters here , many of them Muslims , how many of them have more than one wife ? Islam as a religion is a living one and practical , it is merely giving an option .

For example, in Islam, there is a provision for divorce , does that mean it is wrong ? In Hindu religion you do not a divorce system , you need to understand that there are citcumstances where you need to get married again , if the provision is not there at all how will you find solution ?

Firstly, he was a Prophet. As Muslims, we believe he was the perfect human in mankind.

He didn't marry to lust for multiple women. His circumstances were very different.

 

[Itachi]

There is a system to divorce and that is mentioned in the quran. It does not say that you can just say talaq three times and marriage is void. I myself agree with that.

Special marriage Act is when the parties of different religion. If a Muslim wants to go through that its his wish , when did I say that he cannot.

Then the personal laws should have been abolished long back , why the issue now?

If your logic is that in polygamy one group is taking advantage of the laws and exploiting others , then why you not applying same logic to other laws as well. You should have the same parameter.

I can show you cases where rape laws have been exploited in india and women have framed innocent men , section 498 has been used to harass innocent men. Are these laws not exploited by certain people ?

Muslims are against idol worship , so will you agree on that ? Brother we are discussing the pros and cons of polygamy here , whether polygamy should be banned or not. For a society to run properly you need to look at all aspects , you cannot just ban something out of nowhere .

For any marriage to take place in islam the women must agree to the marriage , if she is not okay with polygamy she has full right to refuse . Its not that it is done by force. If a widow or divorced woman who cannot find a suitor agrees to be second wife of a man , instead of living alone life , can you tell me what the issue is , and what solution does the Government provide her ?

I would like to see the cases where rape allegations are overturned by court in India. Can you point towards the references?

If a woman doesn't find suitor, then she is entitled to have the family pensions of her house hold. If she marries, then she needs to give up that privilege.

If a woman is divorced, then she will get a share of financial support from her husband (provided she doesn't have any means to earn) unless she remarries.

These are legal provisions.

 

[Justcrazy]

I would like to see the cases where rape allegations are overturned by court in India. Can you point towards the references?

If a woman doesn't find suitor, then she is entitled to have the family pensions of her house hold. If she marries, then she needs to give up that privilege.

If a woman is divorced, then she will get a share of financial support from her husband (provided she doesn't have any means to earn) unless she remarries.

These are legal provisions.

When a woman makes false allegations, you know what happens, how much mental pain a person has to go through?

You think money is the only need of a woman, what is the solution for the conjugal needs of the woman? Is she not a human? Tell me the solution that you have in mind for such woman, solution means complete well-being, not just financial.

 

[Vegitto1]

I am surprised that this is even a topic of discussion.

India recently allowed homosexuality. It will soon allow same sex marriages therefore, why does the law feel it has to intervene if a man wants to have multiple wives or a women wants multiple husbands?

Surely if consenting adults want to enter in such relationships then it should not be anyones business.

 

[Itachi]

When a woman makes false allegations, you know what happens, how much mental pain a person has to go through?

You think money is the only need of a woman, what is the solution for the conjugal needs of the woman? Is she not a human? Tell me the solution that you have in mind for such woman, solution means complete well-being, not just financial.

I've asked for women exploiting rape law in India where you've said that there are many cases exist. Can you point a few cases?

Polygamy Islam isn't made for women but for men only. Otherwise, a woman should have been given right to marry an already married man regardless what that man wants.

If conjugal needs of the women needs to be satisfied, why the judgement relies on the men rather than the women who is actually the "victim" here?

 

[Itachi]

I am surprised that this is even a topic of discussion.

India recently allowed homosexuality. It will soon allow same sex marriages therefore, why does the law feel it has to intervene if a man wants to have multiple wives or a women wants multiple husbands?

Because it is not in line with part III of Indian constitution.

 

[Justcrazy]

I've asked for women exploiting rape law in India where you've said that there are many cases exist. Can you point a few cases?

Polygamy Islam isn't made for women but for men only. Otherwise, a woman should have been given right to marry an already married man regardless what that man wants.

If conjugal needs of the women needs to be satisfied, why the judgement relies on the men rather than the women who is actually the "victim" here?

By exploiting rape law means filing false rape cases as harassment , if you want I will give you examples, but that is not rocket science , any one can search it on google.

How is polygamy not made for women, it gives women the right to property and status of a wife in society .
Also, if you are suggesting that women should be allowed to have multiple husbands , then make such a law and pass in parliament, who is stopping the Government?

But you cannot make it a Quranic law. If someone wants to follow it that person will follow. Alcohol is prohibited in Islam , but still there are Muslims who have it .

Sorry, but you did not give me a solution for the conjugal and emotional rights of a woman. I need the solution from you because all the major religions provide it , but they are not acceptable to you , so you need to tell the solution about women who cannot find partners ,

also what is the solution for a person who is married to a wife but she is sick and cannot have conjugal relationship , so if we apply your system , either the man looks for sex outside marriage or divorce his wife , and brings other wives.

Do you not think that polygamy ( restricted one like Islam ) is a solution to several social issues?

 

[street cricketer]

I am surprised that this is even a topic of discussion.

India recently allowed homosexuality. It will soon allow same sex marriages therefore, why does the law feel it has to intervene if a man wants to have multiple wives or a women wants multiple husbands?

Surely if consenting adults want to enter in such relationships then it should not be anyones business.

My views are similar. If there are consenting adults, I don't see how we can justify same sex relationships, but not polygamy or polyamorous relationships. Perhaps the only criticism I can think of is that it can be misused in a way as young women are more likely to get coerced into a polygamous marriage than men, in our part of the world where patriarchy runs deep.

In any case, it's not a relevant issue. I haven't seen many muslims with multiple wives in India. In fact, I read a report somewhere that the practice of polygamy, while uncommon, was nevertheless more common among hindus than muslims in India.

 

[Justcrazy]

My views are similar. If there are consenting adults, I don't see how we can justify same sex relationships, but not polygamy or polyamorous relationships. Perhaps the only criticism I can think of is that it can be misused in a way as young women are more likely to get coerced into a polygamous marriage than men, in our part of the world where patriarchy runs deep.

In any case, it's not a relevant issue. I haven't seen many muslims with multiple wives in India. In fact, I read a report somewhere that the practice of polygamy, while uncommon, was nevertheless more common among hindus than muslims in India.

Polygamy is not a big issue in India , percentage-wise it is almost negligible, even in the case of Hindus mostly its Adivasis who do that, for various reasons. Its not a big enough issue to make any laws.

Also , statistically, also it is difficult because for every 1000 men in India there are only around 950 women.

 

[Itachi]

By exploiting rape law means filing false rape cases as harassment , if you want I will give you examples, but that is not rocket science , any one can search it on google.

How is polygamy not made for women, it gives women the right to property and status of a wife in society .
Also, if you are suggesting that women should be allowed to have multiple husbands , then make such a law and pass in parliament, who is stopping the Government?

But you cannot make it a Quranic law. If someone wants to follow it that person will follow. Alcohol is prohibited in Islam , but still there are Muslims who have it .

Sorry, but you did not give me a solution for the conjugal and emotional rights of a woman. I need the solution from you because all the major religions provide it , but they are not acceptable to you , so you need to tell the solution about women who cannot find partners ,

also what is the solution for a person who is married to a wife but she is sick and cannot have conjugal relationship , so if we apply your system , either the man looks for sex outside marriage or divorce his wife , and brings other wives.

Do you not think that polygamy ( restricted one like Islam ) is a solution to several social issues?

I would like to see the cases. Googled it but couldn't find any false accusations of rape cases dismissed by Indian Court as stated by you hence it is still here say.

Secondly, polygamy is made for women.... That doesn't make any sense since the decision will be taken by the male rather than the female. I am sorry but for me, Quran is just another religious book and as same for other religious books, I do see deeply integrated patriarchal mentality in various guidelines (which is natural since in those times, the society as a whole was geared towards men more).

But trying to give justification for a provision that is born out of patrichal system which differentiates between men and women isn't something that I believe as fair.

 

[Justcrazy]

I would like to see the cases. Googled it but couldn't find any false accusations of rape cases dismissed by Indian Court as stated by you hence it is still here say.

Secondly, polygamy is made for women.... That doesn't make any sense since the decision will be taken by the male rather than the female. I am sorry but for me, Quran is just another religious book and as same for other religious books, I do see deeply integrated patriarchal mentality in various guidelines (which is natural since in those times, the society as a whole was geared towards men more).

But trying to give justification for a provision that is born out of patrichal system which differentiates between men and women isn't something that I believe as fair.

I am waiting for you to give practical solutions to my humble questions.
Once you give your solutions I would reply.

Men and women are different, who told you they are same? But that is another discussion. Right now if as a learner I agree with your points , but does that mean that you are only criticizing certain thing , but are unable to provide solutions ?

If you do not have any solutions then just accept the fact and move on , there is no harm in it .

 

[Itachi]

I am waiting for you to give practical solutions to my humble questions.
Once you give your solutions I would reply.

Men and women are different, who told you they are same? But that is another discussion. Right now if as a learner I agree with your points , but does that mean that you are only criticizing certain thing , but are unable to provide solutions ?

If you do not have any solutions then just accept the fact and move on , there is no harm in it .

Your question was, "Do you not think that polygamy ( restricted one like Islam ) is a solution to several social issues?"

It does solve some problems(?) such as legalizing infidelity since you will be able to continue affairs by the books. Other than that, I don't see any issues that will be solved by polygamy.

If women are finding it hard to find a suitor, then give them the right to choose a man regardless of his marital status.

Other than that, instead of giving away women who can't find a suitor to married men, the society as a whole try to give the platform where they have their self identity, independent finance and not restricted by religious obligations which are somewhat gender discrimination by nature which does exist in Islam in many cases (in PP itself, many Muslims have pointed towards this and there are multiple threads on it).

Its sad that people think of unmarried women as liability.

 

[Justcrazy]

Your question was, "Do you not think that polygamy ( restricted one like Islam ) is a solution to several social issues?"

It does solve some problems(?) such as legalizing infidelity since you will be able to continue affairs by the books. Other than that, I don't see any issues that will be solved by polygamy.

If women are finding it hard to find a suitor, then give them the right to choose a man regardless of his marital status.

Other than that, instead of giving away women who can't find a suitor to married men, the society as a whole try to give the platform where they have their self identity, independent finance and not restricted by religious obligations which are somewhat gender discrimination by nature which does exist in Islam in many cases (in PP itself, many Muslims have pointed towards this and there are multiple threads on it).

Its sad that people think of unmarried women as liability.

If a woman is being used as a GF or concubine , what is the legal outcome for her , she does not get any protection , also in society she is looked down upon , is marriage not a better thing ?

Woman has the right to chose whom she wants , even in case of polygamy , if she is not comfartable she can refuse. A man can only propose , the final decision is with the women.

Now my simple question is if a woman agrees to polygamous marriage with her own free will , then what is your issue in such a situation ?


Other than that, instead of giving away women who can't find a suitor to married men, the society as a whole try to give the platform where they have their self identity, independent finance and not restricted by religious obligations which are somewhat gender discrimination by nature which does exist in Islam in many cases (in PP itself, many Muslims have pointed towards this and there are multiple threads on it).

What is that supposed to mean? I asked a simple question , is finance the only thing required by a woman ? what about her conjugal and emotional needs ? Or are you suggesting that she just goes out and become a public property ?


You can make countless rants , but practical solutions you will not find. Islam does not make anything haram , without having a practical solution for it. Its very easy to criticize something but very difficult to find solutions. Among the reverts in western countries , maximum have been women , and they are born in those countries and are educated . If Islam was truly oppressive to women , they would not have reverted.

 

[Itachi]

If a woman is being used as a GF or concubine , what is the legal outcome for her , she does not get any protection , also in society she is looked down upon , is marriage not a better thing ?

In India, by law, live in gf has same rights.

Woman has the right to chose whom she wants , even in case of polygamy , if she is not comfartable she can refuse. A man can only propose , the final decision is with the women.

The married woman can't propose to enter in a polygamy. Can she?

Now my simple question is if a woman agrees to polygamous marriage with her own free will , then what is your issue in such a situation ?

If existing laws of the land allows it, no issues.

Other than that, instead of giving away women who can't find a suitor to married men, the society as a whole try to give the platform where they have their self identity, independent finance and not restricted by religious obligations which are somewhat gender discrimination by nature which does exist in Islam in many cases (in PP itself, many Muslims have pointed towards this and there are multiple threads on it).

What is that supposed to mean? I asked a simple question , is finance the only thing required by a woman ? what about her conjugal and emotional needs ? Or are you suggesting that she just goes out and become a public property ?

For conjugal needs, it isn't obligation to enter as a 3rd party in a relationship/marriage.

You can make countless rants , but practical solutions you will not find. Islam does not make anything haram , without having a practical solution for it. Its very easy to criticize something but very difficult to find solutions. Among the reverts in western countries , maximum have been women , and they are born in those countries and are educated . If Islam was truly oppressive to women , they would not have reverted.

Religion works with the mechanism of brain washing since birth. Some people could realize the reality later in life. Some doesn't. That doesn't translate it as being right.

 

[MenInG]

A groom was booked under provisions of Indian law dealing with poligamy after he married a pair of twins in a public ceremony held in the southwestern state of Maharashtra.

Videos of the nuptials that took place last Friday have left some of the social media surprised and shocked, even though the families of the individuals consented to the living arrangement.

Things are, however, not looking good for the newlyweds after a criminal case was filed against the groom under charges related to polygamy.

The twins, identified as Pinky Padgaonkar and Rinky Padgaonkar, decided to marry the same man, Atul Uttam Autade, as they couldn’t bear parting from each other after marriage. The three had been living in the same house since their childhood and Mr Autade helped the family after the father of the two women passed away, the reports added.

In the 28 seconds video, widely circulated on social media, the two sisters could be seen garlanding the groom as he is lifted up by his friends.

However, a local resident, Rahul Bharat, filed a complaint against Mr Autade under the section of Indian law dealing with the offence related to remarrying during the lifetime of a spouse.

“A non-cognisable offence has been lodged. We will take the court’s permission and proceed ahead with further investigation,” Solapur rural superintendent of police Shirish Sadeshpande was quoted as saying by the Hindustan Times.

“The law states that a person can marry only one woman at a time. We have preliminary information that both sisters are close and wanted to stay together. Further investigation is underway.”

The outlet quoted advocate Harshad Nimbalkar, who said that the legality of their marriage should be checked against the country’s marriage act and that the protestation has to arise from the living spouse.

“Whether the marriage is legal or not has to be checked as per the Marriage Act,” said Mr Nimbalkar. “The objection to this kind of marriage has to come from the first wife. We need to first find out whether all the marriage-related rituals took place or not.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=14eb090cdafe423597275ee2c6215e79

 

[Justcrazy]

Is it a compulsory rule to have multiple spouses in Islam?

Is there polygamy among Muslims living in the west?

Stop looking at everything from a religious lenses. I am sure you know it’s mostly the poor sections of the society in developing nations that still use this polygamy card. Can you name me one famous Muslim from the current generation who has multiple wives? I am not talking about some sultan but a regular celebrity. I am waiting.

Not sure your problem is Indians saying it shouldn’t be allowed or if you actually believe polygamy is fine.

Yes a Muslim can have more than one wife in west. He needs to get Islamic marriage and not register that.

Whether Muslims do something or not do , that does not change the word of God.

A Muslim is supposed to look everything through lense of religion , because a Muslim is not like other religion. They are confident that Quran is indeed word of God , a Muslim has no doubt about his or her faith.

Now , why polygamy is necessary as option. That is because Islam unlike other religions not only speaks about welfare but also provides practical solutions. There are women who do not have children or are sick cannot have conjugal relations. Islam given option to men , so that such a woman is not abandoned by the husband.

If you have a better solutions , kindly throw light on that instead of just criticizing.

 

[Justcrazy]

In India, by law, live in gf has same rights.



The married woman can't propose to enter in a polygamy. Can she?



If existing laws of the land allows it, no issues.




For conjugal needs, it isn't obligation to enter as a 3rd party in a relationship/marriage.



Religion works with the mechanism of brain washing since birth. Some people could realize the reality later in life. Some doesn't. That doesn't translate it as being right.

How do you define Live in legally , does India Have a legislation about it ? Its a complicated term , there can be a concubine , mistress or even cohabit.

Polygamy is allowed by Islam , so you have to derive principles of polygamy from Islamic texts . Yes , If Indian legislation makes polygamy allowed for Hindus as well , they will derive there own principles.

The existing laws of India does recognise Islamic personal law.

If marriage is not necessary for conjugal needs, what should a woman of respectable family do ? Suppose that lady was your daughter or sister , what would you suggest ?

There are countless people who accepted Islam at much mature age living in totally different environment. I do not think they were brainwashed.

 

[Kroll]

Read an older post above about some condition that first wife has to give permission to her husband if he wants to take a second wife.

This is not true, no permission is required.

 

[sweep_shot]

Read an older post above about some condition that first wife has to give permission to her husband if he wants to take a second wife.

This is not true, no permission is required.

Yup. No permission is required.

It is not obligatory for the husband, if he wants to take a second wife, to have the consent of his first wife, but it is good manners and kindness to deal with her in such a manner that will minimize the hurt feelings such thing might produce. So it’s incumbent on the husband to be kind to his wife, discuss the matter with her in a gentle and pleasant manner, and this should be coupled with spending whatever money may be necessary in order to gain her acceptance of the situation.

Reference: https://fiqh.islamonline.net/en/going-for-second-marriage-do-i-need-wifes-permission/.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Read an older post above about some condition that first wife has to give permission to her husband if he wants to take a second wife.

This is not true, no permission is required.

In Pakistani law it is. You need permission from your first wife.

 

[SalimBhai]

In Pakistani law it is. You need permission from your first wife.

No sir the sharia council overruled the law. You do not need permission.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No sir the sharia council overruled the law. You do not need permission.

When was this? I am seeing this article from 2020 saying the

The Supreme Court of Pakistan on Wednesday made it mandatory for a man to obtain consent from his first wife or an arbitration council before marrying for the second time.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/304499-su...fes-permission-obligatory-for-second-marriage


The Muslim Family Laws Ordinance of 1961 also states you need permission from your first wife. The court cant or at least should not make the law. There job is to interpret the law, and the law is pretty clear.

 

[SalimBhai]

When was this? I am seeing this article from 2020 saying the




https://www.geo.tv/latest/304499-su...fes-permission-obligatory-for-second-marriage


The Muslim Family Laws Ordinance of 1961 also states you need permission from your first wife. The court cant or at least should not make the law. There job is to interpret the law, and the law is pretty clear.

I dont know how much influence sharia court have in real life. I just remember the headline. I could be wrong.

 

[Kroll]

In Pakistani law it is. You need permission from your first wife.

That's Pakistan though where the Supreme Court ruled on this only couple of years ago.

But it is not required in Sharia. That's what was being discussed although different states may have their own civil laws on the matter.

 

[Kroll]

In Pakistani law it is. You need permission from your first wife.

No sir the sharia council overruled the law. You do not need permission.

Oh well there you go then.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Jammu And Kashmir Cop Loses Promotion Over Second Marriage

Jammu: The Jammu and Kashmir administration on Tuesday imposed a penalty to withhold promotion for a period of two years of a deputy superintendent of police for contracting second marriage without first obtaining the permission of the government, officials said.

An order in this regard was issued by Additional Chief Secretary (ACS), Home Department, Raj Kumar Goyal.

"The competent authority, being satisfied with the inquiry and the procedure followed in this case, arrived at a decision of imposing a penalty of withholding two increments without cumulative effect and withholding promotion for a period of two years of DySP Basharat Hussain Dar as per rule 30 of the J&K civil services (classification, control and appeal) rules, 1956, for violating rule 22(1) of the J&K government employees (conduct) rules, 1971," the order read.

Two annual increments of Dar shall be withheld for a period of two years without cumulative effect from the date of issue of this order and his promotion shall be withheld for a period of two years from the date of issue of this order, it said.

The order said departmental proceeding was initiated against the DySP based on the recommendations of the DGP for having contracted second marriage without first obtaining the permission of the government.

The probe was held against Dar and due process was followed by serving him with memo along with the statement of imputations in support of the charge and other connected documents in 2017, it said.

Dar had denied the charge as baseless and unfounded. He, in his response, further stated that he contracted the second marriage after divorcing his first wife. The reply of his defence was examined and it was decided to have an in-depth inquiry into the charge, the order said.

Accordingly, an officer was appointed to inquire into the charge served upon the officer and the inquiry officer submitted the report of inquiry by concluding that Dar contracted second marriage with second wife during the subsistence of his first marriage without obtaining prior permission from the government, it said.

The competent authority, which examined the report of the inquiry officer, did not find any cogent reasons to change his decision on imposing penalty against the deputy superintendent of police, the order read.

NDTV

 

[ex-q-zit]

"Muslim Men Can't Have 3-4 Wives, Want To Change System": Himanta Sarma

Assam Chief Minister Himanta Biswa Sarma on Thursday said his party was against men from the Muslim community having multiple wives.

Launching a scathing attack on Lok Sabha MP Badruddin Ajmal, Sarma said women can give birth to "20-25 children" as per the AIUDF chief's reported advice but all their future expenses on food, clothes and education will have to be borne by the opposition leader.

"There cannot be any right to a man living in independent India to marry three-four women (without divorcing the previous spouse). We want to change such a system. We will have to work to give justice to Muslim women," the chief minister said at an official function here.

"We want 'sabka saath sabka vikas'. If there are doctors from Assamese Hindu families, there should be doctors from Muslim families as well. Many MLAs don't give such advice because they need the votes of 'Pomuwa' Muslims," Sarma said.

Bengali-speaking Muslims originating from East Bengal or present-day Bangladesh are colloquially called 'Pomuwa Muslims' in Assam.

Speaking about Ajmal's controversial comments on women, the chief minister said, "In Assam, we have some leaders like Badruddin Ajmal. They say women must give birth to children as soon as possible because that is a fertile land." A woman's childbirth process cannot be compared with a field, he added.

"I have repeatedly said that our women can give birth to 20-25 children, but their food, clothes, education and all other expenses will have to be borne by Ajmal. Then, we don't have any problem," Sarma said.

If the perfume baron-turned-Lok Sabha MP does not give the expenses of the children, then nobody has the right to lecture on childbirth, he added.

Sarma further said that a family should give birth to only those many children whom they can provide food, clothes and education to make them better human beings.

"Our government's policy is clear. We work for the indigenous people, but we want progress for all. We don't want the students of Muslims, especially the 'Pomuwa' Muslims, to study in madrassas and become 'Jonab' and 'Imam'," he added.

The BJP-led government wants all Muslim children to get admitted to general schools and colleges to become doctors and engineers.

Ajmal, in an interview with a media house on December 2, had commented on women and Hindu men as well as Sarma, purportedly as a response to the chief minister's remarks on 'Love Jihad'.

The Dhubri MP, who is revered as a 'Maulana', reportedly advised Hindus to marry young to produce more children like Muslims.

As the comments led to a backlash, the MP apologised the next day and said he was "ashamed" of the controversy it stoked. He, however, maintained that his comments were twisted and he had not targeted any community.

Referring to the arrest of some terror elements with links to a madrassa in the district, the chief minister said, "I am very concerned about Al-Qaeda links to a madrassa in Morigaon. We can't transform the district into a base for Al-Qaeda.

"We all will have to stay away from communalism and religious fundamentalism for the progress of Morigaon district," he added.

NDTV

 

[Stewie]

India is not a Muslim state so it would make sense for them to abolish it but at the same time, the Indian courts have absolute zero authority or nous to debate the merits or demerits of this Islamic law. They are not qualified enough to rule on Islamic jurisprudence and therefore should have stayed quiet on that part.