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Poor sportsmanship by South Africa to not allow Pakistan a replacement for the injured Saim Ayub

Savak

Savak

Test Captain
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ICC laws need to be flexible to address situations like this where a like for like replacement should be allowed for severe freak injuries.

Apparently Rizwan allowed South Africa to replace an injured Maharaj after he got injured once he was selected after the toss. They should have returned the favor here.
 
I don't think it has ever happened in history after the match started until the concussion subs were introduced. India lost Bumrah for entire match. Last series in 2021 they lost Saini immediately after 6 overs.
 
Savak said:
ICC laws need to be flexible to address situations like this where a like for like replacement should be allowed for severe freak injuries.

Apparently Rizwan allowed South Africa to replace an injured Maharaj after he got injured once he was selected after the toss. They should have returned the favor here.
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Yes. I agree.

Since Pakistan allowed it, SA should've allowed also.

They qualified for WTC final also. So, there wasn't anything at stake.
 
The rules shouldn’t change. Concussion sub is fair.

People will try to deceive the game by getting players to feign injuries if they realise they got the team combination wrong a few overs into the game.

Pakistan misused the concussion sub against SA in the 2023 World Cup as well. No way Shadab should have been allowed to be replaced by Usama Mir
 
Rana said:
The rules shouldn’t change. Concussion sub is fair.

People will try to deceive the game by getting players to feign injuries if they realise they got the team combination wrong a few overs into the game.

Pakistan misused the concussion sub against SA in the 2023 World Cup as well. No way Shadab should have been allowed to be replaced by Usama Mir
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Yup it is fairly easy to exploit.

watch-Gulbadin-Naib-fake-injury-acting-after-Afghanistan-head-coach-Jonathan-Trott-signals-to-slow-down-match.jpg
 
Rana said:
People will try to deceive the game by getting players to feign injuries if they realise they got the team combination wrong a few overs into the game.
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no they cant. Match referee and umpires can take the call in such situations
 
A sub should have been allowed because the guy has clearly fractured his ankle and comes under a serious injury .

How can a team with already weak batsmen be allowed to be handicapped further with 1 batsmen missing

Cricket doesn't help itself sometimes with its weird rules and regulations
 
Rana said:
How? If your Physio says the player is unfit to play, they can’t overrule his assessment!
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I doubt physios would be corrupt like this. It can hurt their reputations and careers in the long run.
 
gazza619 said:
Gosh! What are we, banana republic? Take the word of the physio. They are qualified professionals who must abide by a certain code of conduct.
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You’ve got no clue what you are on about and how things work in reality.

The final verdict is this. The rules are fine as they are. The concussion sub is fair because you cannot predict the safety of a player once the ball has hit the head at such pace, or if there is a head clash.


Besides that, players should not be permitted to be substituted for non life threatening injuries.

End of.
 
sweep_shot said:
I doubt physios would be corrupt like this. It can hurt their reputations and careers in the long run.
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Who’s going to question it?


If a player says he is incapable to walk and has to be helped off, that’s it, the Physio tells the umpires and the match referee that the player can’t continue. End of story.

So now what, you apply a substitute rule?
 
Rana said:
You’ve got no clue what you are on about and how things work in reality.

The final verdict is this. The rules are fine as they are. The concussion sub is fair because you cannot predict the safety of a player once the ball has hit the head at such pace, or if there is a head clash.


Besides that, players should not be permitted to be substituted for non life threatening injuries.

End of.
Click to expand...
Rules are not fine as they are and there is room for improvement. Thankfully you are not in charge and some sane individuals will amend the laws at some point.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
We would also have loved to have Harshit Rana :(
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I don't even like the concussion sub rules. Concussions should be treated like any other injury. If the players need to be taken out, the opposing team should be allowed to take advantage of it.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't even like the concussion sub rules. Concussions should be treated like any other injury. If the players need to be taken out, the opposing team should be allowed to take advantage of it.
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Yea. This replacement for injured player is impractical given the myriad of injuries that can happen on a cricket field. Severity varies. You cannot substitue players based on severity. There will be massive controversy. BCCI didn't even believe Shreyas Iyer's fitness issue. Turns out he actually had issue.
 
Anyone can use this tactics in future by fake injury.

But in bilateral series if both teams are agree for a replacement than it can happen.

absolutely not for the ICC tournaments .
 
Pakistan team was not at a wedding feast. They were up against WTC Final team. Pakistani team or fans have no right to whine about this.
 
gazza619 said:
Rules are not fine as they are and there is room for improvement. Thankfully you are not in charge and some sane individuals will amend the laws at some point.
Click to expand...
Well how stupid does that sound? The ‘sane’ people running the game have enforced the current rules that I am advocating for at this moment.
 
gazza619 said:
Bruh this pitch was tailor made for a Abdullah Shafique special stylish cover drive. Its our loss.
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Lol. Abdullah would have made 2 ducks and dropped a couple of catches. Doubt Rizwan even asked Bavuma for a replacement if Abdullah was the only option. Specialist fielder is better
 
Rana said:
Who’s going to question it?


If a player says he is incapable to walk and has to be helped off, that’s it, the Physio tells the umpires and the match referee that the player can’t continue. End of story.

So now what, you apply a substitute rule?
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Why would a player voluntarily feign an injury during a match to get substituted by someone else?
 
Cricket is so stuck in the dark ages, every other sport will allow substitutes to come in whether it be tactical or for injuries. I would like to see the substitute option introduced in all forms of cricket where each side will be permitted one substitute. I get the issue with the faking of injuries etc - why not just introduce a substitute full stop. Make the game more interesting. At the very least if the ICC want to make it for injury purposes that would allow something. I wonder what the statistics are for teams that have been handicapped by losing a bowler/batsman in mid test.
 
Major said:
Some funny takes by people that think injury can be faked without a doc noticing.
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Didn't pakistan posters were talked about conspiracy when India brought chahal as a concussion substitute in the 1st T20I against Australia in Canberra as Ravindra Jadeja was struck on helmet during his innings.

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
Didn't pakistan posters were talked about conspiracy when India brought chahal as a concussion substitute in the 1st T20I against Australia in Canberra as Ravindra Jadeja was struck on helmet during his innings.

:kp
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im really interested in knowing how can a concussion be faked.
 
Every team sport I can think of allows a replacement for a player injured on the field.
 
Rana said:
The rules shouldn’t change. Concussion sub is fair.
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Even concussion sub shouldn't allowed.. IIRC Chahal subbed Jadeja (after he batted full) and picked a four-fer to win the match (vs Australia?)..
 
Smbhayi said:
Even concussion sub shouldn't allowed.. IIRC Chahal subbed Jadeja (after he batted full) and picked a four-fer to win the match (vs Australia?)..
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I remember that.

The concussion sub issue is a grey area, it’s a very tough one. You really can’t force players to possibly sit out for a bit and come back later on if you feel better once you’ve been nailed in the head. This will put added mental pressure on players during matches who have been hit in the head, and it could lead to bigger consequences for the player if they do not take the required measures to safeguard themselves.

I’ll give you an example. Let’s say a batsman is hit on the head by a 90mph bouncer in a World Cup final, he could be the key player for his team….he might be dazed for a bit and feeling he isn’t capable to continue for the time being. But if the match situation changes to the point where his presence is definitely required as a player (because you cannot have a substitute), then in most cases this player and even his management will egg him on to go in and play to save the team.
Emotions take precedence over medical advice in such situations.

The same player could well end up suffering from a brain haemorrhage the next day or some other serious brain condition that can be triggered later, and the reason simply could be that he didn’t take his head injury and the precautions he should have as serious as he should.
 
ssuhaide said:
Cricket is so stuck in the dark ages, every other sport will allow substitutes to come in whether it be tactical or for injuries. I would like to see the substitute option introduced in all forms of cricket where each side will be permitted one substitute. I get the issue with the faking of injuries etc - why not just introduce a substitute full stop. Make the game more interesting. At the very least if the ICC want to make it for injury purposes that would allow something. I wonder what the statistics are for teams that have been handicapped by losing a bowler/batsman in mid test.
Click to expand...
Yup! This isn’t about this game. It’s about overall policy.
Get that “it can be faked” but you can build guardrails around it to prevent it, such as an MRI scan or doctor’s report. Aren’t we all required to submit doctors report to get medical leaves?

It’s equally ridiculous that India lost Bumrah and didn’t have anyone else bowling either. This makes no sense and risk of faked injuries shouldn’t stop you from having substitutes. It’s 2025. Use tech.
 
It's about when you get injured. Maharaj was injured before the match started. Saim got injured during the match. If he was injured before the match started I'm sure the sub would have been allowed.

This happens in cricket, it's not vindictive. Graeme Smith forced himself to bat with a broken hand against medical advice, there was no complaining about subs.

Bavuma himself pulled a hamstring during the match against India last December and couldn't bat, there was no calling for subs. Because it occurred during the match.
 
In a case like Saim it should be straight forward. He didn't bowl or bat. It's different if he batted already.
 
I would rather introduce red card for bad behaviors which would force the team to play with 10 men.
 
ssuhaide said:
Cricket is so stuck in the dark ages, every other sport will allow substitutes to come in whether it be tactical or for injuries. I would like to see the substitute option introduced in all forms of cricket where each side will be permitted one substitute. I get the issue with the faking of injuries etc - why not just introduce a substitute full stop. Make the game more interesting. At the very least if the ICC want to make it for injury purposes that would allow something. I wonder what the statistics are for teams that have been handicapped by losing a bowler/batsman in mid test.
Click to expand...

This has been trailed in various T20 leagues over the years, the Big Bash had something like this a few years ago until they got rid of it and so did the English T20 league in the 2000s, IIRC.

While on paper it sounds brilliant, in reality it gets very clunky because you have start putting restrictions on the sub, e.g., a player who has bowled their full quota of 4 or 10 overs cannot be substituted because then at that point (and with what you have suggested) you might as well allow teams to play with 12 players. And then people will ask for 13 players, so where does the buck stop?
 
khyberlion said:
In a case like Saim it should be straight forward. He didn't bowl or bat. It's different if he batted already.
Click to expand...

This is a good point, rather than introducing flashy rules, cricket should just give more authority to umpires and match referee to just exercise common sense during a match. Instead, it feels as though ICC has made it over-regulated and bloated with various policies which much be followed to the letter T.

Ultimately though, when you're getting hammered by 10 wickets, I doubt Saim playing or not is making a difference.
 
Farabi said:
Yup! This isn’t about this game. It’s about overall policy.
Get that “it can be faked” but you can build guardrails around it to prevent it, such as an MRI scan or doctor’s report. Aren’t we all required to submit doctors report to get medical leaves?

It’s equally ridiculous that India lost Bumrah and didn’t have anyone else bowling either. This makes no sense and risk of faked injuries shouldn’t stop you from having substitutes. It’s 2025. Use tech.
Click to expand...

Okay... but then, in the middle of a match, do they stop play for 2 hours while a player trots off to the hospital to get an MRI and that MRI is then emailed to the 3rd umpire's box for them to review?
 
FastBowlingAllrounder said:
This is a good point, rather than introducing flashy rules, cricket should just give more authority to umpires and match referee to just exercise common sense during a match. Instead, it feels as though ICC has made it over-regulated and bloated with various policies which much be followed to the letter T.

Ultimately though, when you're getting hammered by 10 wickets, I doubt Saim playing or not is making a difference.
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Agreed. I am not saying playing saim would have avoided us losing, but it's poor that a guy who got injured in the 5th over of the game with our batting is not allowed a replacement. It's not fair in general.
 
Jo_Don said:
It's about when you get injured. Maharaj was injured before the match started
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Maharaj stupidly got injured after the team sheet was submitted at the toss. SA deserved to play with 10 men merely on this stupidity. It has to be the dumbest time to get injured. Go and put your team gear on and wait in the dressing room, what was he doing???

I hate Rizwan’s guts in general but this one gesture by him is commendable. He kindly let SA change the team after the toss, he really had no reason to allow it.
 
Concussion substitute: absolutely fair

Outline which other injuries could prove life threatening if a player doesn’t receive medical treatment that forces him out of the match. For those injuries, the substitute should be allowed.

A torn hamstring, a twisted angle, a dislocated finger/shoulder are not life threatening injuries.
 
gazza619 said:
Gosh! What are we, banana republic? Take the word of the physio. They are qualified professionals who must abide by a certain code of conduct.
Click to expand...
In 20 aus series , Jadeja was hit by starc in a t20 and chahal replaced him as concussion sub.chahal.got mom and aus coach langer went nuts.i think jadeja got 10 days break .no one will trust anyone.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing a 12th man being named after the toss and can come in case of an injury replacement. ICC can have one neutral physio who can check, confirm the injury and allow for the substitution.

I can understand some concerns and advantages being taken of something like this in ODI's & T20's and I don't mind leaving out the implementation in the shorter formats but man, Test is over 5 days and I am surprised injuries don't happen more often to be honest. Certainly think a 12th man is warranted in Tests. Most would likely pick a bowler or allrounder to be the 12th man so if a batsmen gets injured, it is what it is but better than nothing IMO.
 
If a player gets injured and he is not able to participate in the match anymore (has to be judged by Doctors) then really, a substitute should be allowed.

It was very strange to not see a replacement for Saim in the game.
 
Let's not turn every other thread into a rizwan debate... STAY ON TOPIC
 
FastBowlingAllrounder said:
Okay... but then, in the middle of a match, do they stop play for 2 hours while a player trots off to the hospital to get an MRI and that MRI is then emailed to the 3rd umpire's box for them to review?
Click to expand...
It's a 5-day game.

Would you rather lose a player for 5 days straight or just for 2 hours?

Alternatively, consider introducing a red card for fake injuries—ban the player for 3 games if it turns out they were faking it. This will keep folks honest.

There are solutions! We just need to think creatively and implement them.
 
Pakistan allowed South Africa to change thier xi after the toss so South Africa should have returned the favour even thou it was in the game
 
Poor from South Africa, they had nothing to lose but anyways it was a dead rubber
 
Farabi said:
It's a 5-day game.

Would you rather lose a player for 5 days straight or just for 2 hours?

Alternatively, consider introducing a red card for fake injuries—ban the player for 3 games if it turns out they were faking it. This will keep folks honest.

There are solutions! We just need to think creatively and implement them.
Click to expand...

Red card/infringement idea is good.

But no, even for a five-day game a two-hour gap will be problematic. What if it’s a batsman who gets injured while batting and before he gets back his team is 9 wickets down. Does everyone wait for him or do they wrap up the innings and move on with the game while a verdict is issued on his fitness? If a replacement is then allowed there is still no point as the innings was already wrapped up.

Sometimes teams need to accept that injuries are part and parcel of the game, you just need to suck it up and move on.
 
Rana said:
Concussion substitute: absolutely fair

Outline which other injuries could prove life threatening if a player doesn’t receive medical treatment that forces him out of the match. For those injuries, the substitute should be allowed.

A torn hamstring, a twisted angle, a dislocated finger/shoulder are not life threatening injuries.
Click to expand...

In the recent Aus vs Ind series Simon Tauffel mentioned during coverage that the ICC policy makes a distinction between soft (e.g. torn hamstring) and hard (e.g. hit by the ball and broke a bone) injuries when determining how long a player has to wait before they can bat or bowl after they’ve gone off the field for a treatment. Perhaps a similar classification can come in for substitutes? If a bowler is experiencing strains due to over bowling, that shouldn’t warrant a substitute as it is the responsibility of a team to manage a player’s fatigue and fitness. But yes, hard injuries are different and unpredictable.
 
What's up with the title, South Africa literally had no choice in the matter.
 
Why PCB/ pakistan fans are always Play victim Cards.

There is no such rules so why would they allowed replacement for saim Ayub.
 
ICC needs to reconsider its rules. Some of them are crazy.. But anyways, South Africa had no choice here actually IMO. It was up to ICC to consider a replacement but yeah, a team can lose a game if one of their premier players gets injured on day 1.
 
FastBowlingAllrounder said:
Red card/infringement idea is good.

But no, even for a five-day game a two-hour gap will be problematic. What if it’s a batsman who gets injured while batting and before he gets back his team is 9 wickets down. Does everyone wait for him or do they wrap up the innings and move on with the game while a verdict is issued on his fitness? If a replacement is then allowed there is still no point as the innings was already wrapped up.

Sometimes teams need to accept that injuries are part and parcel of the game, you just need to suck it up and move on.
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The question here wasn’t to seek ideal solutions. It’s whether there is something better than can be done than what it is today.
It’s stupid to continue a 5 day game with 1 man down to injury. What if 3 get injured in the first 10 mins. Does your answer change…
It would be ridiculous to say the 11 member team won because they were better than the 8 member team.
 
BouncerGuy said:
ICC needs to reconsider its rules. Some of them are crazy.. But anyways, South Africa had no choice here actually IMO. It was up to ICC to consider a replacement but yeah, a team can lose a game if one of their premier players gets injured on day 1.
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Premier player? What has the Saim Ayub done in test cricket to consider the premier player?

And injury is part of the sports so nothing can be done about it .

Players gave up olympics medals because of injury during the games .

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
Premier player? What has the Saim Ayub done in test cricket to consider the premier player?

And injury is part of the sports so nothing can be done about it .

Players gave up olympics medals because of injury during the games .

:kp
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For Pakistan, he was a premier player. He was in-from and on that flat-road, he might have scored some heavy runs, you never know.
 
Devadwal said:
8 test ,364 runs ,26 average and High score -77 .

He has played few test on pakistan road as well .

:kp
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If Shan can play with 30 average for a decade and be a captain, you should think Saim is a premier player because he was getting on his foot finally and then he got that foot injured.LOL
 
BouncerGuy said:
If Shan can play with 30 average for a decade and be a captain, you should think Saim is a premier player because he was getting on his foot finally and then he got that foot injured.LOL
Click to expand...
This is only prove my earlier point that anyone can become premier player in pakistan cricket.

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
This is only prove my earlier point that anyone can become premier player in pakistan cricket.

:kp
Click to expand...
Yes.. Anyone can be a premier player... But saim was in good form and getting injured on day 1 and 1st session is pretty unfortunate for a youngster.
 
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