POTW: Mamoon

[MenInG]

Congratulations to Mr. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] for an excellent post which attempts to explain the Mohammad Rizwan phenomena and has been adjudged as POTW

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...w-Zealand-T20I-series&p=11378387#post11378387

Razzaq has no say in the management of Pakistan team. He might have been the first one to promote Rizwan as an opener, but ultimately, it was Misbah who decided to open with him in international cricket.

A lot of tactics and strategies that are deployed at domestic level or not repeated at international level because you have different options at hand.

Razzaq did not have Sharjeel, Fakhar, Haider etc. at his disposal but Misbah did, and he could have continued to open with those guys and kept Rizwan in the middle-order.

The real issue here is that some people will never give credit to Misbah. If Rizwan would have been promoted as an opener under Mickey or some other foreign coach, the same people who are not refusing to credit Misbah would be doing bhangra and praising the vision and the tactical nous of the foreign coach.

Misbah made plenty of mistakes but promoting Rizwan as an opener is his legacy. Clutching at straws and forcefully crediting Razzaq will not change anything.

Rizwan’s turn around as an opener is similar to how players like Rohit, Dilshan, Watson and even Jayasuriya and Sachin back in the day turned their careers around after getting promoted.

Opening has always been the easiest batting position in Limited Overs cricket. The white ball doesn’t swing much, the fielding restrictions and the hard, new ball allows you to score plenty of boundaries early in your innings which helps you settle, and you always start at 0/0 so you don’t need to adjust to different situations.

This is why the two best batsmen of your team should always open the innings in Limited Overs. They will maximize their run scoring and it makes sense to give your two best batsman maximum deliveries.

The concept of specialist openers in ODI cricket died when the format transitioned from red ball to white ball.

Pakistan is missing a huge trick by not opening with Babar and Rizwan in ODIs. I really hope the current management can see the light because Misbah couldn’t.

I like Imam and Fakhar can be devastating on a good day, but these two are easily the best and most prolific batsmen in Pakistan. They would comfortably surpass Saeed Anwar and Aamer Sohail as an opening pair in ODIs.

One can only imagine the number of 100+ partnerships they will have over the next 3-4 years if not more.

 

[Major]

Good post.

There was a poster who even tried to give credit of rizwan to razzaq when rizwan himself said it was cause of misbah and shahid aslam

 

[Rajdeep]

Congrats my man...best poster EVER in PP history with due respect to everyone else. He is one of those guys whose posts you simply cant skip without reading. How many POTWs have you revieved BTW? Must be a record.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

The real issue here is that some people will never give credit to Misbah. If Rizwan would have been promoted as an opener under Mickey or some other foreign coach, the same people who are not refusing to credit Misbah would be doing bhangra and praising the vision and the tactical nous of the foreign coach.


True words. Pakistani fans' hatred for Misbah is legendary.

 

[kukkad kamaal]

Congratulations.

 

[The_KING]

Great post from a great poster.

Pakistanis fans have an irrational hate for Misbah and that is sad.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Reminds me of Sunil Narine being promoted as opener. But he rarely did that with West Indian side since they had better options. Only twice.

 

[Ab Fan]

Congratulations.

In T20s, I agree with the opening pair of Rizwan and Babar.

But in ODIs, one of these two should bat at 3 and the other should open alongside Fakhar, who has been a successful opener for Pakistan.

 

[Varun]

Good post by a prolific poster.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

A great poster

 

[sweep_shot]

Congratulations.

 

[TeamPak95]

For Rizwan being the opener, I would give equal credit to Misbah and Razzaq. Razzaq, as far as I am aware, was the one who came up with the idea of Rizwan the opener so if it wasn't for that Misbah most likely would not have made him the opener internationally.

In regards to Rizwan opening the batting in ODIs, I'm not so sure about this one. Performance-wise, I don't doubt it at all. It's just that Rizwan would be doing so much with opening the batting as he puts a price on his wicket and would bat for a majority of the innings + he'd be wicketkeeping all of the next innings. Along with his role in t20s, he'd just be doing way too much in white-ball cricket and, as athletically fit as he is, could potentially gas out sooner as the years go on. Unpopular opinion, but if management do go for Rizwan as an opener for ODIs then, for the sake of a sustainable workload, he should give the gloves to someone else. Otherwise, for now, I think Fakhar and Imam as openers are fine for ODIs.

All in all, great read.

 

[Kroll]

Misbah abandoned the team and fled right before the WC.

How can even his most staunch fans defend that?
Guy’s a disgrace!

 

[dravidthewall]

Congratulations Mamoon. I always enjoyed your post.

 

[moghul]

Its ridiculous to give credit to MIsbah that too regarding Rizwan. Rizwan should have played for Pakistan 3-4 years earlier but Misbah kept him sidelined and persisted with useless Sarfraz , who has been the 2nd worst keeper after Kamran for Pakistan in recent times.

 

[trickyone]

the sooner the rizwan and babar starts opening in ODIs, better for Pakistan is

 

[gazza619]

Good post. I agree on Riz for ODIs, but does Riz himself wants to open in that format? I am concerned at the pressure on his body opening the batting and then keeping. Unless he doesnt keep wickets.

Riz is our player for all 3 formats and we need to look after him.

 

[Rana]

This is why I argue, Rizwan fans are not Pakistan fans.

 

[Bewal Express]

Don't agree with Riz opening, too much pressure when you have also kept Wicket for 50 overs. Sometimes people want to kill the goose the lays the golden eggs.
As far as Babar is concerned,I suggested he should open a few months ago. Babar needs to face the most balls and if he scores, we have a good chance of winning big games.

 

[Kraetoz]

Don't agree with Riz opening, too much pressure when you have also kept Wicket for 50 overs. Sometimes people want to kill the goose the lays the golden eggs.
As far as Babar is concerned,I suggested he should open a few months ago. Babar needs to face the most balls and if he scores, we have a good chance of winning big games.

Adam Gilchrist says hi

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Mamoon is an insightful, knowledgable poster, who uses facts to support his arguments. Many posters struggle on that account.

I must confess: i stopped reading his posts some time ago because I would know what he would say on any topic. It's like watching Fox News vs CNN. You know each side will use numbers and facts to support their own pre determined outcomes and opinions. It's great for supporters of one or the other philosophy but not for those who seek nuance, and look for grey in black and white.

Of late though, I have noticed there is a shift toward wider variables of consideration. So I am back on Mamoon's bandwagon. Maybe age is catching up?

 

[Kraetoz]

Don't agree with Riz opening, too much pressure when you have also kept Wicket for 50 overs. Sometimes people want to kill the goose the lays the golden eggs.
As far as Babar is concerned,I suggested he should open a few months ago. Babar needs to face the most balls and if he scores, we have a good chance of winning big games.

People talk about Gilchrist's innings in 2007 world cup final but even in 2003 world cup final it was 105 run opening partnership stand(Gilly and Haydos) in 14 overs which set it all up nicely for Ponting and Martyn.

I know that Australia were batting first in both of those finals. But you know what would happen any way if Pakistan bat firsts in a world cup final? Rizwan would virtually then be opening any way after 20-4 in 7 overs. Both Babar and Rizzy would fight to get the score of 220-230ish and there goes your world cup final.

 

[octavian]

Its ridiculous to give credit to MIsbah that too regarding Rizwan. Rizwan should have played for Pakistan 3-4 years earlier but Misbah kept him sidelined and persisted with useless Sarfraz , who has been the 2nd worst keeper after Kamran for Pakistan in recent times.

This unfortunate truth is very hard for some people to acknowledge.

Misbha had zero imagination and creativity to have a vision like promoting Rizwan.

 

[Major]

Its ridiculous to give credit to MIsbah that too regarding Rizwan. Rizwan should have played for Pakistan 3-4 years earlier but Misbah kept him sidelined and persisted with useless Sarfraz , who has been the 2nd worst keeper after Kamran for Pakistan in recent times.

ummm no.

When Misbah was captain during Whatmore's coaching, Misbah was trying to push the selectors to bring in Rizwan.

Selectors never listened to Misbah.

Sarfraz Ahmad was a forced selection by Moin Khan

 

[Major]

For Rizwan being the opener, I would give equal credit to Misbah and Razzaq. Razzaq, as far as I am aware, was the one who came up with the idea of Rizwan the opener so if it wasn't for that Misbah most likely would not have made him the opener internationally.

In regards to Rizwan opening the batting in ODIs, I'm not so sure about this one. Performance-wise, I don't doubt it at all. It's just that Rizwan would be doing so much with opening the batting as he puts a price on his wicket and would bat for a majority of the innings + he'd be wicketkeeping all of the next innings. Along with his role in t20s, he'd just be doing way too much in white-ball cricket and, as athletically fit as he is, could potentially gas out sooner as the years go on. Unpopular opinion, but if management do go for Rizwan as an opener for ODIs then, for the sake of a sustainable workload, he should give the gloves to someone else. Otherwise, for now, I think Fakhar and Imam as openers are fine for ODIs.

All in all, great read.

Rizwan himself mentioned that he gives credit to Misbah, Waqar and Shahid Aslam.

He didnt even mention Razzaq, yet we see fans trying to force an opinion that no it was Razzaq.

When the guy himself has said it wasn't

 

[Bewal Express]

Adam Gilchrist says hi

One person doesn't disprove the general gist. Riz is suited to 4 or 5 in ODIs

 

[TeamPak95]

Rizwan himself mentioned that he gives credit to Misbah, Waqar and Shahid Aslam.

He didnt even mention Razzaq, yet we see fans trying to force an opinion that no it was Razzaq.

When the guy himself has said it wasn't

Well from my end I'm not trying to force an opinion here, I'm just pointing out whether or not Misbah would've still put Rizwan to open the batting had it not been for Razzaq. I'm not downplaying Misbah here, he for sure deserves credit but at the same time so does Razzaq. Rizwan not mentioning Razzaq doesn't change the fact that Razzaq was the one who put him up for opening the batting.

 

[Cric1234]

Looking at the recent form of Rizwan long term I’m unconvinced he is the right man to be a match winner for Pakistan as an opening batsman.

He’s played SA B England B bowling wise Zimbabwe West Indies B and Bangladesh only against Bangladesh has he failed due to the tricky pitches more than form.

With him being in his prime he’s managed to hit a decent run of form on better wickets against weaker bowling but in the future just scoring runs won’t help win matches against better teams we saw that in the semi final of the world T20.

He’s not a batsman to make a 100(50) 70(30) type of innings neither is Babar which means we’re likely to struggle in Australia unless a few decent power hitters are played below them.

Ultimately the aim of T20s is not bilaterals but to win the T20 WC beating weak teams in series is not the main aim for any team but Pakistan because of no success in tests and ODIs.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Good post.

There was a poster who even tried to give credit of rizwan to razzaq when rizwan himself said it was cause of misbah and shahid aslam

Rizwan also said Razzaq was the reason he became an opener, I provided you with the source. So are you saying that Rizwan didn’t credit Razzaq?

Why is it so hard to credit both Razzaq and Misbah?

 

[moghul]

Mamoon is an insightful, knowledgable poster, who uses facts to support his arguments. Many posters struggle on that account.

I must confess: i stopped reading his posts some time ago because I would know what he would say on any topic. It's like watching Fox News vs CNN. You know each side will use numbers and facts to support their own pre determined outcomes and opinions. It's great for supporters of one or the other philosophy but not for those who seek nuance, and look for grey in black and white.

Of late though, I have noticed there is a shift toward wider variables of consideration. So I am back on Mamoon's bandwagon. Maybe age is catching up?

His posts are always interesting to read, never a dull post, deserves credit for that.

 

[Usman]

On the idea from [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] of making Rizwaan and Babar open in ODI cricket, I do like the thought of it. My worry is what happens if one or both get out early. The middle order to follow would be extremely inexperienced. In t20s it doesn’t matter because the ones that come after Babar and Rizwaan have little time to bat. Ask those same players to play out 45 overs however and they might be all at sea.

I guess one option is to put Babar and Rizwaan at the top and then put Fakhar and Imam in the middle - literally swap them round. Fakhar and Imam have a little experience so at least will be able to handle the pressure. What I wouldn’t want is Babar and Rizwaan open and then, as Fakhar and Imam are openers, they are both dropped leading to a middle order of Kushdil Shahs and Iftikar Ahmeds.

 

[uppercut]

My first post here on this forum having been a long time reader and a big fan of [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]s posts. It is a pleasure to read your posts. The clarity of thought and the effort you put into making each post meaningful is very refreshing. Thanks for taking the time to keep posting on this forum in this busy world.

 

[James]

Well done [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] — a deserved award for a prolific poster !

 

[angrypathan]

This is why I argue, Rizwan fans are not Pakistan fans.

On the contrary, anyone who still hates Rizwan after his performances over the entire year is not a well wisher of Pakistan cricket.

 

[Savak]

Babar and Rizwan should open in odis as well. If these two get the team off to a good start, everyone else can have a platform to hit out from

 

[Titan24]

Top post from a brilliant poster who surely can be critical of Pakistan cricket which I personally believe sometimes comes from the emotions/affection he has for the sport and Pak cricket. In terms of pure cricketing discussions he is one of the best around.

I wasn't that active on forum in recent times so missed the original post. Misbah fully deserves the credit though initially things became slightly easier and straightforward on two accounts; 1) Babar got injured for the NZ series and Pak needed a replica of solidity at the top while Fakhar was not in the squad due to being Covid+ limiting the combination 2) Razzaq opened with Rizwan in KPK and he provided the base for the team which made him a like to like replacement for Babar in NZ T20s.

However, the way Misbah carried on with Rizwan after what he saw in the 3rd T20 vs NZ even after a lot of media pressure and criticism is not every ones cup of tea. His rigid stance on that and his belief on Rizwan has given Pak a star.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Mamoon is a PakPassion legend.

Him and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] the three greatest posters this forum has seen.

 

[ARK Rafay]

I would like Rizwan to open in ODI as well. Because I think what Imam offers at top. Rizwan can offer that as well plus more. Only concern would be his fitness and fatigue. Can he open, play long innings and keep for 50 overs throughout a series/tournament?

 

[Pakpak]

I would like Rizwan to open in ODI as well. Because I think what Imam offers at top. Rizwan can offer that as well plus more. Only concern would be his fitness and fatigue. Can he open, play long innings and keep for 50 overs throughout a series/tournament?

Gilchrist did easily. I'm sure Rizwan can too

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Rizwan was opened the batting in t20s for Peshawar back in 2014 or 2015 I think.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Well done to whoever hacked into Mamoons account and posted the post on his behalf. 1st time using actual cricketing logic in a post rather then usual attempt at trolling.

 

[Adnan_Ilyas]

Awesome post and a very good read. Babar and Rizwan at the top have been amazing.

 

[MesonK]

I like Imam and Fakhar can be devastating on a good day, but these two are easily the best and most prolific batsmen in Pakistan. They would comfortably surpass Saeed Anwar and Aamer Sohail as an opening pair in ODIs.