POTW: mominsaigol

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A warm welcome to a fresh voice of reason and good analytical posts and the winner of this week's POTW award, @mominsaigol for his excellent post (thread as well)

Pakistan's unhealthy obsession with playing their players in out of Order Positions?

Surprisingly no one has made a thread on this, but this is an issue that should be discussed. Since I've been watching cricket pakistan has continued to play up and coming cricketers out of order. It was more evident in the misbah era but it still exists in the babar azam era. Example 1: Umar...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

Surprisingly no one has made a thread on this, but this is an issue that should be discussed.

Since I've been watching cricket pakistan has continued to play up and coming cricketers out of order. It was more evident in the misbah era but it still exists in the babar azam era.

Example 1: Umar Akmal

While I agree umar akmal destroyed his career, unlike Ahmed shehzad, he's not 100% to blame. Umar akmal was a solid no 3, who had good technique and an excellent 5th gear, but misbah relegated him to a no 6 or 7 pinch hitter. Umar was never the type of player to finish the innings yet undeserving players like asad shafique got the no 3.

Similarly other cricketers during that era like sohaib maqsood who scored multiple half centuries at no 3 and 4, were relegated to no 6 due to misbah obsession of playing medicore test players at the top order.

Example 2: Our current t20 team

Why do we have saim ayub and Fakhar in the t20 team as middle order batsmen? While I don't mind babar or rizwan opening, only one of them should open, we have middle order batsmen playing as openers and openers playing as middle order batsmen.

Even in our current team if saud plays he gets shoved to no 5 rather then no 4 which would be his natural position, we also have solid middle order batsmen in the squad but we're choosing not to play them for Pseudo all rounders.

The best atg of Pakistan have always played in their natural positions, never have I encountered a pakistani atg that has been successful at playing out of position.

Simply put, let middle order batsmen be middle order batsmen, let openers be openers, and let finishers be finishers. You think babar would be succesful if they shoved him to no 6? Or no 7? Like they did with umar akmal?

Simply put every team should have openers, your 2 best batsmen at 3 and 4, and your strikers at no 5,6 and 7. You don't shove a no 3 at no 7 and put a no 7 at no 3. That experiment backfired with KL Rahul, it backfired with Muhammad hafeez when he was shoved from no 6 to opening, I can go on and on.

 

[Major]

A very good poster indeed

 

[mominsaigol]

Thanks

 

[Hassan A]

Well done, @mominsaigol! Thoroughly deserved POTW!
Your voice is a valuable addition to the forum. Congrats !

 

[Danyal A]

Hey @mominsaigol ! Just saw you got POTW. Cool stuff. Keep dropping those insights!

 

[Hitman]

Congrats! Good post!

 

[BouncerGuy]

Congratulations, mominsaigol! Your contributions and engagement have clearly stood out, and it's a well-deserved honor. Keep up the great work, and thank you for your valuable contributions

 

[WicketLord]

Congrats! Its very good post. I read all your posts, your knowledge is very good.

 

[VForVendetta]

You can add Haider Ali on that list also.Another proper top order batsman destroyed because he was forced to bat at middle order so that the golden boys could hog all the limelight. What a shame!

 

[Markhor]

Good stuff

Like seeing proper analysis instead of "Drop X Play Y" kneejerk type posts.

 

[mominsaigol]

You can add Haider Ali on that list also.Another proper top order batsman destroyed because he was forced to bat at middle order so that the golden boys could hog all the limelight. What a shame!

Ph yh I forgot about harder Ali, yh he shares the same limelight

 

[TheSultan]

Good post by a great poster and evoked good discussion

 

[Asad T]

well done @mominsaigol, i really enjoyed that post

 

[Ahmed216]

Excellent analysis bro ... u are such a prolific and insightful poster. And very balanced

 

[gazza619]

I am sorry to say but I completely disagree.

Pakistan’s problem is not with playing batters in wrong positions. The problem is lack of skill. A quality batter will do well in all batting positions and that includes Babar Azam. Most teams pick the best batters and then adjust them to the batting positions available in the team.


Unfortunately Umar Akmal successfully managed to sell you the chooran that he has been trying to sell for the past decade.

 

[sweep_shot]

Congratulations.

 

[mominsaigol]

I am sorry to say but I completely disagree.

Pakistan’s problem is not with playing batters in wrong positions. The problem is lack of skill. A quality batter will do well in all batting positions and that includes Babar Azam. Most teams pick the best batters and then adjust them to the batting positions available in the team.


Unfortunately Umar Akmal successfully managed to sell you the chooran that he has been trying to sell for the past decade.

Babar azam is failing at no 6 or no 7, the same way rizwan was failing at no 6 or 7 before being promoted at opening and no 4, infact he's failing at any Australian conditions or against any 1st string side. Just like jaysuria turned him into a bunny in the test series, Kuldeep is about to wipe the floor with babar this world cup. Anything that's spin friendly or a bouncy pitch, Babar is toast.

Babar is a very good accumulator, he isn't a quality no 1 ATG like people believe him to be. Every player in the 2019 England squad wipes the floor with Babar.

Umar didn't sell me any chooran, I straight up acknowledged he's a cry baby and a has been. But he was a solid no 3, Theirs a reason he smacked a 1st string Australian side in oversees conditions something Babar can only dream of doing.

But misbah shoved him at 6 and 7, umar ain't a finisher, 90% of the time he didn't even get to finish since pakistan would just reach 34/4 and umar would have to recover to 200, this changed his mentality later in his career, where pinch hitting became the norm for him, hence putting him at no 3 or no 4 would have done nothing.

It's not a surprise, pakistan has been doing this for a long long time.

Sami aslam burst onto the scene with a 45 of 50, immediately dropped for Ahmed shezad of all people, any games where sami failed once or 2x, insta drop but Ahmed shezad gets to play for years upon years of failing, this caused sami to develop a has been Crybaby mindset and now he's a nobody.

Look at shan masood, getting opening positions and calls from the management telling Babar that shan must play or else lol.

Your disagreement means nothing, saud and Abdullah and saim are going down the has been route as well.

Give these guys the freedom to play wothout fear of being dropped and at their positions and give them an extended run and then we'll talk. Theirs a reason england went from their dark 2015 days to their current 2019 selves. They actually groom strikers and players, they dont play their 1st string accumulators ans bits and pieces players against 2nd string sides so that their stats get inflated beyond belief and when a world cup comes they get a reality check.

Don't make me count the no of times babar azam has received his reality check on a world cup stage.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar azam is failing at no 6 or no 7, the same way rizwan was failing at no 6 or 7 before being promoted at opening and no 4, infact he's failing at any Australian conditions or against any 1st string side. Just like jaysuria turned him into a bunny in the test series, Kuldeep is about to wipe the floor with babar this world cup. Anything that's spin friendly or a bouncy pitch, Babar is toast.

Babar is a very good accumulator, he isn't a quality no 1 ATG like people believe him to be. Every player in the 2019 England squad wipes the floor with Babar.

Umar didn't sell me any chooran, I straight up acknowledged he's a cry baby and a has been. But he was a solid no 3, Theirs a reason he smacked a 1st string Australian side in oversees conditions something Babar can only dream of doing.

But misbah shoved him at 6 and 7, umar ain't a finisher, 90% of the time he didn't even get to finish since pakistan would just reach 34/4 and umar would have to recover to 200, this changed his mentality later in his career, where pinch hitting became the norm for him, hence putting him at no 3 or no 4 would have done nothing.

It's not a surprise, pakistan has been doing this for a long long time.

Sami aslam burst onto the scene with a 45 of 50, immediately dropped for Ahmed shezad of all people, any games where sami failed once or 2x, insta drop but Ahmed shezad gets to play for years upon years of failing, this caused sami to develop a has been Crybaby mindset and now he's a nobody.

Look at shan masood, getting opening positions and calls from the management telling Babar that shan must play or else lol.

Your disagreement means nothing, saud and Abdullah and saim are going down the has been route as well.

Give these guys the freedom to play wothout fear of being dropped and at their positions and give them an extended run and then we'll talk. Theirs a reason england went from their dark 2015 days to their current 2019 selves. They actually groom strikers and players, they dont play their 1st string accumulators ans bits and pieces players against 2nd string sides so that their stats get inflated beyond belief and when a world cup comes they get a reality check.

Don't make me count the no of times babar azam has received his reality check on a world cup stage.

Keep looming the threat of dropping a talented player over their heads and keep playing top order batsmen as finishers while guys like asad shafiq, Shan masood, faheem ashraf, nawaz, Rizwan get a free ride for eternity so that they can stat pad against 2nd string sides and receive reality checks this wc.

Shabash beta shabash, we are destined to fail at this world cup , pur world no 1 ain't doing anything fam.

 

[Saj]

Well done.

Good post.

 

[PakPremi]

Nice thought provoking discussion.