What's new

Why don’t Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan bat in the middle order in T20Is?

mominsaigol said:
Bro then why even complain about the lack of Bobby and rizzu?

The squad combination I'm going for is

1) Shabzada Farhan/ Sharjeel Khan
2) Fakhar Zaman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Tayyab Tahir
5) Salman Ali Agha
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Imad Wasim
8) Zafar Gohar
9) Shaheen
10) Rauf
11) Ali

This way you have 2 aggressive options and if these 2 kick off the PP then Muhammad haris can be promoted at no 3, Tayyab at 4 and inad at 5 to finish the game or innings.

But if the openers fail then saud and salman must be promoted to steady thing.

Plus these 2 can bowl and aren't timid or scared to attack like bobby is in t20.

The team I have suggested murders the current team 5-0 in a t20 series and is more then capable of atleast making It to semi's and pulling an upset.

Granted this team is still outmatches against Australia, West Indies, England etc but
Click to expand...
You’ve given up on usman khan? I still don’t think he’s got a proper run and should be opening. Thought you weren’t a fan of Sharjeel, he can’t even get into PSL these days and his fitness is atrocious and he’s not exactly young. When the team needed him and when he was in his prime, he decided to fix.
 
ads101 said:
You’ve given up on usman khan? I still don’t think he’s got a proper run and should be opening. Thought you weren’t a fan of Sharjeel, he can’t even get into PSL these days and his fitness is atrocious and he’s not exactly young. When the team needed him and when he was in his prime, he decided to fix.
Click to expand...
Sharjeel is performing in president Cup atm that's why.

Usman khan is in reserves cause his technique and footwork are all over the place atm. But we'll see who knows he might become a sehwag type player for Pakistan
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The 60 run stand ended in a loss and England chased the score in 15 overs, even Rizbar's so called dashing wasn't good enough.
Both Rizwan and Babar are essential for the team but they are not an iconic partnership, the standard of Pakistani batting is too low if their partnership is being held as iconic.

None of them have a fifth gear, Babar is literally the worst top order batsman in terms of hitting sixes, Rizwan cant go berserk at any point. They have a lot of weaknesses and they are just an average duo in t20s.
Click to expand...
How many scores RizBar have scored in in T20Is?
How many matches they made Pak win?
Do you know? Can you even count?
 
mominsaigol said:
Anyone can make a page on Wikipedia lol, literally anyone. You just need it approved by moderators but they won't approve it if they think its useless like if you make a wiki about you or some troll page.

But this is a wiki on 2 famous people and an opening combo, so why can't someone like you or technics make it? Or are the 2 of you so useless that you don't know how to operate the Internet?
Click to expand...
Why don't you try making one for Azam khan and Mohsin Naqvi? Just try pls.
.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mominsaigol said:
First of, Shadab, Azam and chacha are not international material. You have proper Middle order players such as tayyab tahir sitting at home to accommodate azam and chacha and a taike ending fraud of shadab.

These guys ain't ever gonna bat responsibly because their not batsmen to begin with.

Also usman scored more and at a higher pace then both babar and rizwan did in the previous game so idkw you mentioned or included him, how was he suppose to bat responsibly when eickets kept falling and we reached pur tail? All he could do was tuk tuk or attack and get out in that situation. He ain't a maxwell and shaheen ain't a pat cumminga
Click to expand...

it's T20
 
I would have preferred to see Fakhar/Rizwan opening. An awkward powerful left hander who can take the game deep and a busy right hander. Babar bats at 3 for me.

However, the fact is that there is no better opening partnership in T20 for Pak than Babar/Riz. Why? Because our team management stuck with these guys as openers and refused to try another combination. And that's fair enough IF and only IF there was a plan to build an attacking middle order over this last 2 years. But instead we've filled it with mainly bits and pieces players and our management thought process appears as scrambled as it was for as long as I can remember.

I'm hoping they've realised that they are already wasting a space with Azam Khan it would be foolish to discard Saim and waste 2 spaces. Put him down the order and see how he goes!

Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Usman
Saim
Chacha
Imad
Shadab
SSA
Rauf
Naseem/Abrar

They seem to forget that Saim and Chacha are handy T20 bowlers. Shadab is no worse than Azam Khan... much better fielder and can play as a batsman if needed... he doesn't have to bowl. It's not ideal but you have to play the cards you've been dealt by this pathetic selection committee.
 
lucky_fish said:
I would have preferred to see Fakhar/Rizwan opening. An awkward powerful left hander who can take the game deep and a busy right hander. Babar bats at 3 for me.

However, the fact is that there is no better opening partnership in T20 for Pak than Babar/Riz. Why? Because our team management stuck with these guys as openers and refused to try another combination. And that's fair enough IF and only IF there was a plan to build an attacking middle order over this last 2 years. But instead we've filled it with mainly bits and pieces players and our management thought process appears as scrambled as it was for as long as I can remember.

I'm hoping they've realised that they are already wasting a space with Azam Khan it would be foolish to discard Saim and waste 2 spaces. Put him down the order and see how he goes!

Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Usman
Saim
Chacha
Imad
Shadab
SSA
Rauf
Naseem/Abrar

They seem to forget that Saim and Chacha are handy T20 bowlers. Shadab is no worse than Azam Khan... much better fielder and can play as a batsman if needed... he doesn't have to bowl. It's not ideal but you have to play the cards you've been dealt by this pathetic selection committee.
Click to expand...
Nice line up but it's a crime to separate rizwan and babar
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PakPremi said:
Fakhar should bat at 3 or 4 as he is not effective opener in T20 and plays much better after PP.
Click to expand...

Fakhar batted at number 4 in the last game, but what happened? He won't perform well if he comes in during the 10th over.

All of Fakhar's significant scores at number 4 occurred when early wickets fell, and he had to come in as early as the 3rd over.

If you look at the scorecards, you'll see that Saim was failing, and Babar or Rizwan were getting out early, leading to Fakhar coming in around the 3rd over despite being listed as the number 4 batsman.

It's surprising that people are being misled by random statistics posted online.
 
He's gonna be a complete and utter dud on slow pitches without bounce.

Might as well get him to make use of the PP depending on the pitches at least
 
shariqnoor said:
Babar was always a number 3 player hence a top-order player. Kohli is a number 3 player and opens for RCB. Steve Smith used to open for Sydney. Number 3's can easily open. Rizwan was shuffled to the top as an experiment and it worked similar to how Fakhar was moved to number 4 and it worked. It has been seen that Rizwan is a complete dud in the middle order so why would anyone want him to be in the middle order?
Click to expand...
There are 36 balls in the PP.

Rizwan will on average face 18 of them.

Are we really saying that he can do well for those 18 balls but do nothing at any other time?

I'm not convinced those 18 balls are as important as we make out. Its not like Rizwan really cashes in on them. He sets a base and

But hand on heart if those first 18 balls are really that important wouldn't you agree its not the end of the world for someone else to face them?

I'm not a rizbar hater. But Recently we have been losing with them as openers and also losing by splitting them up. Im just open to the idea that there may be another way.
 
Energy said:
That's right it was experimental. But you could also say that prior to that, Shehzad had been failing at the top and Fakhar, et al weren't doing enough.

Rizwan has taken his opportunity and established himself as a reliable batsman who gives you 50 runs consistently at 130 SR. This is not a poor statistic from any rubric.

In the previous game, Pakistan folded for 97 runs in 14 overs. If Usman, Fakhar, Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar took responsibility we could have easily got 8-9rpo in those 14 overs and end up at 180. They didn't need to do anything extraordinary. In fact all they needed to do was sensible batting. If they upped a notch and batted at 10 rpo we would have reached 200.

That's 5 batting positions compromised for 60 runs collectively. SR aside, it's not enough runs to inspire confidence and faith in their batting abilities to begin with. That is the root of the problem- 3 batsmen selected in the squad cannot bat like batsmen.

No team in the world is carrying sub 10/15 averaging pure batsmen. It's a crime. SR discussion therefore is an irrelevant fantasy.
Click to expand...
I don't think we should have a batting line up where Azam and Shadab are 5/6. The whole world must be laughing when they see those two come in.

I agree I don't think Rizwan deserves as much hate as he gets. Some of it is irrational and agenda based.

I just think we need to put his 50/130 in context.

It looks good on paper....but I guess to give an analogy. You scratch beneath the surface and realise it was a school for challenged people so while it is a good achievement it doesn't mean too much.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Babar and RIzwan are no good for middle order. Especially babar, he lacks power hitting game which is needed in t20s if are playing in middle order. The best place for Babar is to open or number 3, that's it.

For rizwan, he is just an opener. If he is not opening, he should not be playing.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Babar and RIzwan are no good for middle order. Especially babar, he lacks power hitting game which is needed in t20s if are playing in middle order. The best place for Babar is to open or number 3, that's it.

For rizwan, he is just an opener. If he is not opening, he should not be playing.
Click to expand...
The argument is mostly to expose narratives, not justify it with logic.

People keep claiming Bobby and rizzu are not the problem and that their the solution, and put all fault on the fragile middle order.

Well of these 2 are as world class as people make them out to be, why don't they occupy the middle order?

The only argument you could then make to support them being world class and not batting in the middle order is arguing that the likes of Travis, Warner, rohit don't do so, However those aforementioned 3 don't have thr problem of dealing with a fragile middle order and none of those 3 have a sr below 130
 
mominsaigol said:
The argument is mostly to expose narratives, not justify it with logic.

People keep claiming Bobby and rizzu are not the problem and that their the solution, and put all fault on the fragile middle order.

Well of these 2 are as world class as people make them out to be, why don't they occupy the middle order?

The only argument you could then make to support them being world class and not batting in the middle order is arguing that the likes of Travis, Warner, rohit don't do so, However those aforementioned 3 don't have thr problem of dealing with a fragile middle order and none of those 3 have a sr below 130
Click to expand...
Pakistan has problems in the opening, middle order, and bowling so it mean Babar Azam should do everything on his own?
SHould he also start bowling spin because our spinners are pathetic???

Bro, look at the strength of the player and his suitable number. Cannot just be shoving a player up and down just for the sake of adjusting other players.
 
Anyone can up their strike rate in meaningless bilateral matches against experimental sides. Babar and Rizwan strike rate in world t20s (when every team is switched on and NOT experimenting) is 114 (babar) and 120 (Rizwan).

Minnow level.

If the argument is that “oh well that’s the best you’re going to get”, then fine but if we are going to fail (you will never succeed those numbers), then I’d rather start from scratch with the right approach and let some other openers give it a go. Lose like men rather than cowards.
 
emranabbas said:
Fakhar batted at number 4 in the last game, but what happened? He won't perform well if he comes in during the 10th over.

All of Fakhar's significant scores at number 4 occurred when early wickets fell, and he had to come in as early as the 3rd over.

If you look at the scorecards, you'll see that Saim was failing, and Babar or Rizwan were getting out early, leading to Fakhar coming in around the 3rd over despite being listed as the number 4 batsman.

It's surprising that people are being misled by random statistics posted online.
Click to expand...
Fakhar is not going to score every game he did not fail due to his batting position last game. If you have watched Fakhar bat he has been slow to start and always accelerates in middle overs, and if Rizwan and Babar can bat nearly as good as as they in the last game then Fakhar will have platform to play his game. Pakistan just need to remove hopeless Azam and replace him with Saim, and bat Iftikhar and Imad next. Shadab needs to be replaced by Abrar on the team as he is not having any effect batting or bowling currently.
 
PakPremi said:
Fakhar is not going to score every game he did not fail due to his batting position last game. If you have watched Fakhar bat he has been slow to start and always accelerates in middle overs, and if Rizwan and Babar can bat nearly as good as as they in the last game then Fakhar will have platform to play his game. Pakistan just need to remove hopeless Azam and replace him with Saim, and bat Iftikhar and Imad next. Shadab needs to be replaced by Abrar on the team as he is not having any effect batting or bowling currently.
Click to expand...
Bro put if and buts aside it's proven facts when fakhar comes in the 3rd over he will give you a big score it's done more than times already this year

The only other solution is if your hell bent about rizwan and babar open is fakhar coming at 4 and we will have to lose 2 wickets by the 3rd over for fakhar to perform or drop fakhar because he will be a walking coming at 4 and waste of space
 
For all the talk around Babar's strike-rate, he has actually improved his game somewhat in the last year or so. There is still alot he needs to improve on. I mean you can tell that just by watching him bat in T20s.

But his SR since the start of 2023 is 143. Sure you could say X amount of matches were against New Zealand C but then maybe you shouldn't be bringing up his career SR every time either because he's certainly not the same player hat he was in 2016 or 2018.

Still, I do agree that the World Cup is the true test of your ability. So let's see what Babar does here. He should be batting at 3.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
There are 36 balls in the PP.

Rizwan will on average face 18 of them.

Are we really saying that he can do well for those 18 balls but do nothing at any other time?

I'm not convinced those 18 balls are as important as we make out. Its not like Rizwan really cashes in on them. He sets a base and

But hand on heart if those first 18 balls are really that important wouldn't you agree its not the end of the world for someone else to face them?

I'm not a rizbar hater. But Recently we have been losing with them as openers and also losing by splitting them up. Im just open to the idea that there may be another way.
Click to expand...
There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Best Solution would be Usman and Rizwan opening with still two senior and big players in Babar and Fakhar to bat and hopefully atleast one of them still there in last 3 overs, but they will not go with that I am sure.
 
ads101 said:
There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.
Click to expand...
You’re overthinking it for no reason. Powerplays are for blasting, nothing else.

Stick someone else in - and if you’re two supermen are as good as you all believe they are, then they can either stabilise or hit out or whatever else everyone claims they can do. At least there will be a reason to stabilise if they do that.

Currently they are stabilising from ball one for absolutely no reason. It’s like Azhar Ali’s perceptual crisis mode. Even when the team is 200-1. These geniuses create a crisis when there isn’t one.
 
ads101 said:
There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.
Click to expand...
The reason why people want fakhar to open is because if he stays in he gets a massive score, his sr when he performs is much much higher.

Avg and sr interlink with each other, If fakhar has a low sr at opening its due to him failing, and averaging low, Theirs a reason he's striking much much higher when he comes into the PP at no 4.

Hence if he performs he'll get a very high score for Pakistan. Babar and rizwan avg very high but their sr is abysmally low not even reaching 130 which means their not t20 players and them staying in does nothing.

Babar from overs 1-6 is slow, from overs 7-15 he's even slower. Then finally from overs 16-20 he's striking at 212, which is good but problem is, how many times can he realistically bat and reach over no 16-20 as an opener?

Not even the best players in the world like kohli, Travis etc etc will reach that consistently against quality bowling hence you have a team.

T20 requires your openers to utilise the PP, your middle order to set up overs 7-15 and your lower order to finish the innings for you.

But how is Pakistan suppose to do that when

A) The openers do not utilise the PP.

B) The middle order is mostly walking wickets and fakhar is not the type of player to set up the end for you

C) Lower order iftimania never bothers finishing anything and consistently goes for a 17 ball 20?
 
ads101 said:
There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.
Click to expand...
I really hope you understand what a powerplay is, just incase you don't

a powerplay is a set of overs where fielding restrictions are applied to give an advantage to the batting team. Here's a breakdown of how it works


In the First 6 Overs A maximum of two fielders are allowed outside the 30-yard circle.
After 6 overs A maximum of five fielders can be outside the 30-yard circle

The powerplay is an opportunity to score runs quickly as there are fewer fielders on the boundary, making it easier to hit fours and sixes.

Now tell me what sort of strategy is staying in to increase the chance of scoring big?

You only going to score big in the powerplay not after the power play
 
emranabbas said:
I really hope you understand what a powerplay is, just incase you don't

a powerplay is a set of overs where fielding restrictions are applied to give an advantage to the batting team. Here's a breakdown of how it works


In the First 6 Overs A maximum of two fielders are allowed outside the 30-yard circle.
After 6 overs A maximum of five fielders can be outside the 30-yard circle

The powerplay is an opportunity to score runs quickly as there are fewer fielders on the boundary, making it easier to hit fours and sixes.

Now tell me what sort of strategy is staying in to increase the chance of scoring big?

You only going to score big in the powerplay not after the power play
Click to expand...
You can score big after the PP lol. Its just harder to do so. The issue is the delusion of settling in.

These boys rely on Babar and rizwan stats but ignore that statistically babar and rizwan are at their slowest from overs 7-15.

In otherwords overs 1-6 isn't the biggest issue for these 2 goobers. Their slow from overs 1-6 and overs 7-15 their hilarious because their one note. Lastly their 200sr stats from overs 16-20 are misleading, their inflated due to c string 100's Bobby has scored and for rizwan it's inflated cause he statistically departs from overs 16-17 where he often gets like 4 in 2 balls and them gets dismissed giving him 200 sr lol.

Basically the same logic as imad wasim being the greatest No 7 in odi history.
 
If they took the middle order spot, it would be a big problem.

It would mean, Fakhar and Sharjeel would secure the no.1 & no.2 positions.

Mo. Harris would keep the momentum going at no.3 as the teams more organic 360 player, this is just too high risk right and T20 cricket is all about playing it safe.

Babar and Riswan wouldn't be under as much pressure to play lofted strokes at no.4 / no.5 and could freely pick gaps and target 1-2 boundaries per over with strike rotation. But as the seniors, they need to lead from the front, and scoring runs upfront is more difficult for them, they need to take on the responsibility.

In comes Imad at no.6, this is a concern because he may have more time to plan his innings if needed, and that's not necessary.

Chacha on the other hand would only have a few overs left, and that's an issue, because he doesn't need the clarity of mind to be the finisher he says he is, Chacha can be an accumulator or finisher, so it doesn't make sense to have him at no.7 does it, that's just too low.
 
Not sure why these 2 came to open again when Farhan opened in the 1st t20, he should have done today as well. babar fails again though
 
BouncerGuy said:
Not sure why these 2 came to open again when Farhan opened in the 1st t20, he should have done today as well. babar fails again though
Click to expand...
As soon as Rizwan & Babar realised that the target is safe to chase they decided to shamelessly open again with an intention to show everyone that they are still match winners and no one can take their positions. This is sheer misuse of authority & seniority. These guys have opened in several years even against teams like Netherlands, Zim, USA etc, why can't they leave opening for others. How other players will learn? T20 cricket is full of experiment and innovation, in Pakistan they are treating it as traditional test cricket. This torture must end
 
How much more torture are they going to give the fans ? selecting One day team or test team for t20s just isnt the answer its become so obvious ?
when will the fans get relief from this torture?
 
Saim and Fakhar need to come in asap . This drops Babar and Rizwan to 3 and 4, where they are most likely gonna fail and they know it . So like Babar used his captaincy power . Rizwan will do so for next couple of years . Keep himself in opening slot .
 
Ali Active said:
How much more torture are they going to give the fans ? selecting One day team or test team for t20s just isnt the answer its become so obvious ?
when will the fans get relief from this torture?
Click to expand...
Never!

These two laanats are Pakistan’s category A players. They will contractually be available for T20s all the time!
 
I feel like Babar shouldn't play T20.

Babar is an accumulator like Root or Smith. More suitable for Test and ODI.
 
The roles are even tougher in the middle order. You will have to hit the straps immediately most of the time.
 
sweep_shot said:
I mean he is an accumulator just like them.

Root and Smith are obviously better in terms of accomplishments.
Click to expand...
Smith was never am accumulator. Infact in his prime he was a hard hitting batsmen.

In 2020 he scored a 62 ball 100 against India which included bumrah.

In 2015 he gave every single team in the cup a drubbing of epic proportions.

The accumulator tag came when he fizzled out and became useless in odi but that doesn't count really. 2014-2020 smith in odi is not an accumulator.

As for root, Root in odi in his prime is arguably an accumulator but he did consistently go at a sr of 90 to 100 while Babar consistently goes at an 75 to 80 sr and only I creases it once he gets to a 50.
 
Ali Active said:
How much more torture are they going to give the fans ? selecting One day team or test team for t20s just isnt the answer its become so obvious ?
when will the fans get relief from this torture?
Click to expand...
Believe Babar & Rizwan will never leave T20 cricket wilfully unless they are forced to do like Misbah. They also know they can only play at opening slot, so they won't come down the order as well. They will keep eating power play and scores at SR of 125-130 and then leaving it on middle order, tail & bowlers to win the game.
Seriously, this continuous torture must end please
 
We tried rizwan at 7 but he averages a mighty 11 lol.

The only way we can make him look good is play him in the top 3 and then boost about his average.
 
1. Saim
2. Asif
3. Babar
4. Rizwan
5. Fakhar
6. Some power hitter
7-8. all rounders
9-11. bowlers

This should be our line-up imo
 
Surely the incoming coach has to tackle this issue and break up their egos , Rizwan and Babar are not doing anyone a favor by stubbornly occupying the opening slots.

Saim Fakhar are the ideal choice
 
Kianig89 said:
Surely the incoming coach has to tackle this issue and break up their egos , Rizwan and Babar are not doing anyone a favor by stubbornly occupying the opening slots.

Saim Fakhar are the ideal choice
Click to expand...
Why should they? They have fans like you here who will do bhangra for them.

I don’t understand why you are crying now?
 
Saim
Fakhar
Abdullah Shafique
Usman (wk)
Niazi
Agha ( needs to be given more chances)
Shadab (c)
3 fast bowlers + one spinner.
 
1 point Agenda , only players with SR 135 to be considered for T20s Full stop.

Win or loss is part of the game ,

Saim
Fakhar
Usman
Haris+
Irfan
Nawaz
Shadab
Abbas Afridi
SSA
Rauf
Sufyan/Jamal/ WasimJr
 
mominsaigol said:
Smith was never am accumulator. Infact in his prime he was a hard hitting batsmen.

In 2020 he scored a 62 ball 100 against India which included bumrah.

In 2015 he gave every single team in the cup a drubbing of epic proportions.

The accumulator tag came when he fizzled out and became useless in odi but that doesn't count really. 2014-2020 smith in odi is not an accumulator.
Click to expand...
Who do you classify as an accumulator?

One thing which I absolutely disagree with is Smith ever being a hard hitting batsman, he was never one, hard hitting batsman don’t strike at 87 in this era, even if I ignore average Steve Smith has hit 56 sixes in 160 odis, thats not a hard hitting batsman, I don’t know how you can classify him as one.

Both Root and Smith have been accumulators if you count their whole career but yeah I do agree that Smith for a very short duration used to have a fifth gear which Root, Williamson and Babar don’t possess.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Who do you classify as an accumulator?

One thing which I absolutely disagree with is Smith ever being a hard hitting batsman, he was never one, hard hitting batsman don’t strike at 87 in this era, even if I ignore average Steve Smith has hit 56 sixes in 160 odis, thats not a hard hitting batsman, I don’t know how you can classify him as one.

Both Root and Smith have been accumulators if you count their whole career but yeah I do agree that Smith for a very short duration used to have a fifth gear which Root, Williamson and Babar don’t possess.
Click to expand...
Any player who has given India a 62 ball 100 drubbing in 2020 and a 70 ball 100 drubbing in 2015 sf is not an accumulator.

Smith is limited in the sense that early on in his career he was a legspinner and post 2020 his career plummeted off a cliff. He also was banned for a year.

He didn't play many odi's during his golden test run between 2014-2020
 
Rizwan has limited strokeplay and Babar can’t hit sixes to save his life, none of them should be part of t20i team.

Same goes for Agha Salman, he is even worse in t20is, quality player in tests though.

Naseem and Shaheen also need to be dropped from t20is.
 
They have to bat as openers in T20s, as otherwise they won’t be able to have a strike rate of 120-130 and justify their place in the team.

Babar isn’t a power hitter and Rizwan is a limited batsman. If they bat in middle order in T20s, both of them will struggle to have a strike rate of over 100 and that would be even more detrimental to the team.

The thing is that they shouldn’t even be in the T20 team anymore. But Rizwan is the captain and Babar is the ‘superstar’ of Pakistan cricket, so they aren’t going away anything soon, unfortunately.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
They are not even fit to bat in the middle order anymore... It's the right time for both of them to say goodbye to T20 cricket and focus only on the longer formats.
Click to expand...
They won’t give up an easy 1/3rd of their monthly retainer

PCB’s central contract money Division is a joke. You get paid equally for each format

Ideally it should be 60% Test, 30% ODI and 10% T20
 
Babar is not a middle order batter. Don't think he should be in middle order.

I think Babar should only play Test and ODI. If he has to play T20, he should bat at #3.
 
Rana said:
From Twitter:

Strike rate in last 3 T20 world cups

Rizwan - 113
Babar - 111

Strike rate in PP in last 3 T20 world cups

Rizwan - 98
Babar - 87
Click to expand...

These are the real stats, nobody gives two hoots about bilateral’s anymore. Most teams use them to develop their squad. Pakistan dominate the rankings only due to facing second string sides while other top players give chances to youngsters and allow themselves the required rest & recuperation to be at their peak for tournament cricket.

But but I am number 1! it’s like saying am the best out of a sh!t group.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
They are not even fit to bat in the middle order anymore... It's the right time for both of them to say goodbye to T20 cricket and focus only on the longer formats.
Click to expand...

Just kick them into space, they can play the longer format between each other on Mars
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Rizwan has limited strokeplay and Babar can’t hit sixes to save his life, none of them should be part of t20i team.

Same goes for Agha Salman, he is even worse in t20is, quality player in tests though.

Naseem and Shaheen also need to be dropped from t20is.
Click to expand...

If Rizwan attempts any chukkaz it’s a risk on his life and if he does manage it, then it’s time for a trip to the hospital……
 
Rana said:
From Twitter:

Strike rate in last 3 T20 world cups

Rizwan - 113
Babar - 111

Strike rate in PP in last 3 T20 world cups

Rizwan - 98
Babar - 87
Click to expand...



Asif Ali in world cups, that are some decent stats for a number 7

7 matches
29.50 Average
218.51 Strike Rate

 
emranabbas said:
Asif Ali in world cups, that are some decent stats for a number 7

7 matches
29.50 Average
218.51 Strike Rate

Click to expand...
Asif ali is a much better t20 batsmen then rizzu is.

Asif Ali as an opener is not worse then rizzu as an opener and rizzu would be a clown at no 7 lol.

Babar is > Asif though. Babar's current form is in shambles, but Babar in his prime has played quality t20 knocks which is something that people ignore.

2018 was mostly him and fakhar soloing teams.

Rizwan is to blame for ruining the fakhar + babar combo. Fakhar provided excellent starts while Babar frequently rotated strike and kept the scoreboard ticking.

Problem is rizwan doesn't tick along and forced bobby to attack which isn't his game, Hence Babar also feels the need to take his time and get settled.

The end result is that you have 2 lanats who take forever to get going. Babar if he settles can win you games however with rizwan at the other end, it's impossible.

Too much pressure, too many dot balls and a reckless shot is bound to be played.
 
When it comes to Babar, I don't hate him anymore. I use to despise him as a captain but I don't actually hate Babar as a player.

He's clearly lost form but people forget how good he was during 2016-2021. Yes he was overrated even then as even back then he wasn't even top 15 batters in the world.

However he was a good all format bat. Decent accumulator in test and odi, and a good partner to fakhar. His early t20 innings were very reminiscent of how saud shakeel batted for QG in PSL.

I just view Babar as an overrated batsmen in his prime but still a solid accumulator and a good batter. On current form he needs to be dropped.

As for rizwan, Rizzu is the biggest conman and one of the worst players i have ever seen. All this 40+ avg nonsense, All I see is a serial failure who was given a respite by being given his favourite positions in each format and deapite all this he yielded mediocrity.

Any cricketer who would have the privilege of being given the same treatment as rizzu would have become an atg by now, That's how well this loser has been treated.

Awful and ugly batter who's fooled the planet by latching onto his sri lankan + Indian exploits
 
Saim
Omair bin Yousaf( he looked good in the PP for emerging team)
Fakhar Zaman
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Everyday, I hear fans arguing Pakistan has the worst middle over possible. We continously, recycle, reshuffle middle order and still can't seem to find the right combination.

Yet these 2 middle order batsmen masquerade as openers because it gives them time to play at their own pace and improve their averages. This would have been acceptable if Pakistan had a gun middle order, but out middle order is fragile as nails.

We have identified that middle order is making Pakistan under-perform and not reach desired targets.

There are a few questions for Babar fans tonight and Babar himself.

1. If indeed, Babar and Rizwan are the best batsmen for Pakistan to stave off collapses and get Pakistan to respectable scores, why don't they drop down the order and help the fragile middle order and build in the middle?

2. Why do they insist on opening when their help is required in the middle order?

3. Why can't they replicate their success in the middle considering they are ATGs of T20 based on 40 plus averages.

4. The entire purpose of playing in the team is to adjust in such a way that the team can win. Why do fans feel proud these 2 have scored when the final result is a brutal loss like tonight?

Are we Pakistan fans then?

Some tough questions to be answered tonight.
Click to expand...
Thank Misbah for promoting Rizwan ahead of Fakhar for opening...
Babar opening in T20 was done by Mickey and I still feel that is best position for him to bat if not 3..
 
shah_1 said:
Saim
Omair bin Yousaf( he looked good in the PP for emerging team)
Fakhar Zaman
Click to expand...
just open with Saim and Fakhar Zaman the only 2 T2O style batters Pakistan have..

  1. Saim
  2. Fakhar (C)
  3. Babar
  4. Omair bin yousuf (WK)
  5. Agha
  6. Irfan
  7. Arafat Minhas
  8. Jahandad
  9. Shaheen
  10. Haris rauf
  11. Sufiyan Muqeem
Best team to field..
 
back to the pathetic opening combo again.. babar and rizwan is opening again to chase massive total of 184 against South Africa.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Everyday, I hear fans arguing Pakistan has the worst middle over possible. We continously, recycle, reshuffle middle order and still can't seem to find the right combination.

Yet these 2 middle order batsmen masquerade as openers because it gives them time to play at their own pace and improve their averages. This would have been acceptable if Pakistan had a gun middle order, but out middle order is fragile as nails.

We have identified that middle order is making Pakistan under-perform and not reach desired targets.

There are a few questions for Babar fans tonight and Babar himself.

1. If indeed, Babar and Rizwan are the best batsmen for Pakistan to stave off collapses and get Pakistan to respectable scores, why don't they drop down the order and help the fragile middle order and build in the middle?

2. Why do they insist on opening when their help is required in the middle order?

3. Why can't they replicate their success in the middle considering they are ATGs of T20 based on 40 plus averages.

4. The entire purpose of playing in the team is to adjust in such a way that the team can win. Why do fans feel proud these 2 have scored when the final result is a brutal loss like tonight?

Are we Pakistan fans then?

Some tough questions to be answered tonight.
Click to expand...
Definitely, Pakistan badly needs a solid middle order. Don't know why we went back to this opening pair. The best batsman always plays at #4 (that's where Babar should bat). We have Saim Ayub performing at the top. So at least Saim should open and Saim Should open with Fakhar. Both Babar Azam and Rizwan don't need stat padding (it might make sense for someone like Shan Masood who simply has awful stats ), they are both well established players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

FearlessRoar
ICC Champions Trophy 2025: Pakistan's middle order – A Potential Pitfall
Replies
6
Views
194
Cricket Warrior
C
C
"We needed more bravery in certain situations": Mohammad Rizwan
2
Replies
136
Views
2K
ask_analyse_act
ask_analyse_act
E
Middle Order decline continues: Iftikhar Ahmed, Khushdil Shah, Asif Ali vs Usman Khan, Tayyab Tahir and Irfan Khan
Replies
45
Views
1K
Katwalindian
K
mominsaigol
Saim Ayub vs Pakistan's big 3 (Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan)
Replies
47
Views
1K
GreenKhan
G
emranabbas
Have Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan shaped Saim Ayub into the batter he is today?
2
Replies
152
Views
2K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
Back
Top