Why don’t Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan bat in the middle order in T20Is?

[ads101]

Bro then why even complain about the lack of Bobby and rizzu?

The squad combination I'm going for is

1) Shabzada Farhan/ Sharjeel Khan
2) Fakhar Zaman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Tayyab Tahir
5) Salman Ali Agha
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Imad Wasim
8) Zafar Gohar
9) Shaheen
10) Rauf
11) Ali

This way you have 2 aggressive options and if these 2 kick off the PP then Muhammad haris can be promoted at no 3, Tayyab at 4 and inad at 5 to finish the game or innings.

But if the openers fail then saud and salman must be promoted to steady thing.

Plus these 2 can bowl and aren't timid or scared to attack like bobby is in t20.

The team I have suggested murders the current team 5-0 in a t20 series and is more then capable of atleast making It to semi's and pulling an upset.

Granted this team is still outmatches against Australia, West Indies, England etc but

You’ve given up on usman khan? I still don’t think he’s got a proper run and should be opening. Thought you weren’t a fan of Sharjeel, he can’t even get into PSL these days and his fitness is atrocious and he’s not exactly young. When the team needed him and when he was in his prime, he decided to fix.

 

[mominsaigol]

You’ve given up on usman khan? I still don’t think he’s got a proper run and should be opening. Thought you weren’t a fan of Sharjeel, he can’t even get into PSL these days and his fitness is atrocious and he’s not exactly young. When the team needed him and when he was in his prime, he decided to fix.

Sharjeel is performing in president Cup atm that's why.

Usman khan is in reserves cause his technique and footwork are all over the place atm. But we'll see who knows he might become a sehwag type player for Pakistan

 

[heddie19]

The 60 run stand ended in a loss and England chased the score in 15 overs, even Rizbar's so called dashing wasn't good enough.
Both Rizwan and Babar are essential for the team but they are not an iconic partnership, the standard of Pakistani batting is too low if their partnership is being held as iconic.

None of them have a fifth gear, Babar is literally the worst top order batsman in terms of hitting sixes, Rizwan cant go berserk at any point. They have a lot of weaknesses and they are just an average duo in t20s.

How many scores RizBar have scored in in T20Is?
How many matches they made Pak win?
Do you know? Can you even count?

 

[heddie19]

Anyone can make a page on Wikipedia lol, literally anyone. You just need it approved by moderators but they won't approve it if they think its useless like if you make a wiki about you or some troll page.

But this is a wiki on 2 famous people and an opening combo, so why can't someone like you or technics make it? Or are the 2 of you so useless that you don't know how to operate the Internet?

Why don't you try making one for Azam khan and Mohsin Naqvi? Just try pls.
.

 

[IMMY69]

First of, Shadab, Azam and chacha are not international material. You have proper Middle order players such as tayyab tahir sitting at home to accommodate azam and chacha and a taike ending fraud of shadab.

These guys ain't ever gonna bat responsibly because their not batsmen to begin with.

Also usman scored more and at a higher pace then both babar and rizwan did in the previous game so idkw you mentioned or included him, how was he suppose to bat responsibly when eickets kept falling and we reached pur tail? All he could do was tuk tuk or attack and get out in that situation. He ain't a maxwell and shaheen ain't a pat cumminga

it's T20

 

[lucky_fish]

I would have preferred to see Fakhar/Rizwan opening. An awkward powerful left hander who can take the game deep and a busy right hander. Babar bats at 3 for me.

However, the fact is that there is no better opening partnership in T20 for Pak than Babar/Riz. Why? Because our team management stuck with these guys as openers and refused to try another combination. And that's fair enough IF and only IF there was a plan to build an attacking middle order over this last 2 years. But instead we've filled it with mainly bits and pieces players and our management thought process appears as scrambled as it was for as long as I can remember.

I'm hoping they've realised that they are already wasting a space with Azam Khan it would be foolish to discard Saim and waste 2 spaces. Put him down the order and see how he goes!

Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Usman
Saim
Chacha
Imad
Shadab
SSA
Rauf
Naseem/Abrar

They seem to forget that Saim and Chacha are handy T20 bowlers. Shadab is no worse than Azam Khan... much better fielder and can play as a batsman if needed... he doesn't have to bowl. It's not ideal but you have to play the cards you've been dealt by this pathetic selection committee.

 

[emranabbas]

I would have preferred to see Fakhar/Rizwan opening. An awkward powerful left hander who can take the game deep and a busy right hander. Babar bats at 3 for me.

However, the fact is that there is no better opening partnership in T20 for Pak than Babar/Riz. Why? Because our team management stuck with these guys as openers and refused to try another combination. And that's fair enough IF and only IF there was a plan to build an attacking middle order over this last 2 years. But instead we've filled it with mainly bits and pieces players and our management thought process appears as scrambled as it was for as long as I can remember.

I'm hoping they've realised that they are already wasting a space with Azam Khan it would be foolish to discard Saim and waste 2 spaces. Put him down the order and see how he goes!

Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Usman
Saim
Chacha
Imad
Shadab
SSA
Rauf
Naseem/Abrar

They seem to forget that Saim and Chacha are handy T20 bowlers. Shadab is no worse than Azam Khan... much better fielder and can play as a batsman if needed... he doesn't have to bowl. It's not ideal but you have to play the cards you've been dealt by this pathetic selection committee.

Nice line up but it's a crime to separate rizwan and babar

 

[PakPremi]

Nice line up but it's a crime to separate rizwan and babar

Fakhar should bat at 3 or 4 as he is not effective opener in T20 and plays much better after PP.

 

[emranabbas]

Fakhar should bat at 3 or 4 as he is not effective opener in T20 and plays much better after PP.

Fakhar batted at number 4 in the last game, but what happened? He won't perform well if he comes in during the 10th over.

All of Fakhar's significant scores at number 4 occurred when early wickets fell, and he had to come in as early as the 3rd over.

If you look at the scorecards, you'll see that Saim was failing, and Babar or Rizwan were getting out early, leading to Fakhar coming in around the 3rd over despite being listed as the number 4 batsman.

It's surprising that people are being misled by random statistics posted online.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He's gonna be a complete and utter dud on slow pitches without bounce.

Might as well get him to make use of the PP depending on the pitches at least

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Babar was always a number 3 player hence a top-order player. Kohli is a number 3 player and opens for RCB. Steve Smith used to open for Sydney. Number 3's can easily open. Rizwan was shuffled to the top as an experiment and it worked similar to how Fakhar was moved to number 4 and it worked. It has been seen that Rizwan is a complete dud in the middle order so why would anyone want him to be in the middle order?

There are 36 balls in the PP.

Rizwan will on average face 18 of them.

Are we really saying that he can do well for those 18 balls but do nothing at any other time?

I'm not convinced those 18 balls are as important as we make out. Its not like Rizwan really cashes in on them. He sets a base and

But hand on heart if those first 18 balls are really that important wouldn't you agree its not the end of the world for someone else to face them?

I'm not a rizbar hater. But Recently we have been losing with them as openers and also losing by splitting them up. Im just open to the idea that there may be another way.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

That's right it was experimental. But you could also say that prior to that, Shehzad had been failing at the top and Fakhar, et al weren't doing enough.

Rizwan has taken his opportunity and established himself as a reliable batsman who gives you 50 runs consistently at 130 SR. This is not a poor statistic from any rubric.

In the previous game, Pakistan folded for 97 runs in 14 overs. If Usman, Fakhar, Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar took responsibility we could have easily got 8-9rpo in those 14 overs and end up at 180. They didn't need to do anything extraordinary. In fact all they needed to do was sensible batting. If they upped a notch and batted at 10 rpo we would have reached 200.

That's 5 batting positions compromised for 60 runs collectively. SR aside, it's not enough runs to inspire confidence and faith in their batting abilities to begin with. That is the root of the problem- 3 batsmen selected in the squad cannot bat like batsmen.

No team in the world is carrying sub 10/15 averaging pure batsmen. It's a crime. SR discussion therefore is an irrelevant fantasy.

I don't think we should have a batting line up where Azam and Shadab are 5/6. The whole world must be laughing when they see those two come in.

I agree I don't think Rizwan deserves as much hate as he gets. Some of it is irrational and agenda based.

I just think we need to put his 50/130 in context.

It looks good on paper....but I guess to give an analogy. You scratch beneath the surface and realise it was a school for challenged people so while it is a good achievement it doesn't mean too much.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Babar and RIzwan are no good for middle order. Especially babar, he lacks power hitting game which is needed in t20s if are playing in middle order. The best place for Babar is to open or number 3, that's it.

For rizwan, he is just an opener. If he is not opening, he should not be playing.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar and RIzwan are no good for middle order. Especially babar, he lacks power hitting game which is needed in t20s if are playing in middle order. The best place for Babar is to open or number 3, that's it.

For rizwan, he is just an opener. If he is not opening, he should not be playing.

The argument is mostly to expose narratives, not justify it with logic.

People keep claiming Bobby and rizzu are not the problem and that their the solution, and put all fault on the fragile middle order.

Well of these 2 are as world class as people make them out to be, why don't they occupy the middle order?

The only argument you could then make to support them being world class and not batting in the middle order is arguing that the likes of Travis, Warner, rohit don't do so, However those aforementioned 3 don't have thr problem of dealing with a fragile middle order and none of those 3 have a sr below 130

 

[BouncerGuy]

The argument is mostly to expose narratives, not justify it with logic.

People keep claiming Bobby and rizzu are not the problem and that their the solution, and put all fault on the fragile middle order.

Well of these 2 are as world class as people make them out to be, why don't they occupy the middle order?

The only argument you could then make to support them being world class and not batting in the middle order is arguing that the likes of Travis, Warner, rohit don't do so, However those aforementioned 3 don't have thr problem of dealing with a fragile middle order and none of those 3 have a sr below 130

Pakistan has problems in the opening, middle order, and bowling so it mean Babar Azam should do everything on his own?
SHould he also start bowling spin because our spinners are pathetic???

Bro, look at the strength of the player and his suitable number. Cannot just be shoving a player up and down just for the sake of adjusting other players.

 

[TheSultan]

Anyone can up their strike rate in meaningless bilateral matches against experimental sides. Babar and Rizwan strike rate in world t20s (when every team is switched on and NOT experimenting) is 114 (babar) and 120 (Rizwan).

Minnow level.

If the argument is that “oh well that’s the best you’re going to get”, then fine but if we are going to fail (you will never succeed those numbers), then I’d rather start from scratch with the right approach and let some other openers give it a go. Lose like men rather than cowards.

 

[PakPremi]

Fakhar batted at number 4 in the last game, but what happened? He won't perform well if he comes in during the 10th over.

All of Fakhar's significant scores at number 4 occurred when early wickets fell, and he had to come in as early as the 3rd over.

If you look at the scorecards, you'll see that Saim was failing, and Babar or Rizwan were getting out early, leading to Fakhar coming in around the 3rd over despite being listed as the number 4 batsman.

It's surprising that people are being misled by random statistics posted online.

Fakhar is not going to score every game he did not fail due to his batting position last game. If you have watched Fakhar bat he has been slow to start and always accelerates in middle overs, and if Rizwan and Babar can bat nearly as good as as they in the last game then Fakhar will have platform to play his game. Pakistan just need to remove hopeless Azam and replace him with Saim, and bat Iftikhar and Imad next. Shadab needs to be replaced by Abrar on the team as he is not having any effect batting or bowling currently.

 

[emranabbas]

Fakhar is not going to score every game he did not fail due to his batting position last game. If you have watched Fakhar bat he has been slow to start and always accelerates in middle overs, and if Rizwan and Babar can bat nearly as good as as they in the last game then Fakhar will have platform to play his game. Pakistan just need to remove hopeless Azam and replace him with Saim, and bat Iftikhar and Imad next. Shadab needs to be replaced by Abrar on the team as he is not having any effect batting or bowling currently.

Bro put if and buts aside it's proven facts when fakhar comes in the 3rd over he will give you a big score it's done more than times already this year

The only other solution is if your hell bent about rizwan and babar open is fakhar coming at 4 and we will have to lose 2 wickets by the 3rd over for fakhar to perform or drop fakhar because he will be a walking coming at 4 and waste of space

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For all the talk around Babar's strike-rate, he has actually improved his game somewhat in the last year or so. There is still alot he needs to improve on. I mean you can tell that just by watching him bat in T20s.

But his SR since the start of 2023 is 143. Sure you could say X amount of matches were against New Zealand C but then maybe you shouldn't be bringing up his career SR every time either because he's certainly not the same player hat he was in 2016 or 2018.

Still, I do agree that the World Cup is the true test of your ability. So let's see what Babar does here. He should be batting at 3.

 

[ads101]

There are 36 balls in the PP.

Rizwan will on average face 18 of them.

Are we really saying that he can do well for those 18 balls but do nothing at any other time?

I'm not convinced those 18 balls are as important as we make out. Its not like Rizwan really cashes in on them. He sets a base and

But hand on heart if those first 18 balls are really that important wouldn't you agree its not the end of the world for someone else to face them?

I'm not a rizbar hater. But Recently we have been losing with them as openers and also losing by splitting them up. Im just open to the idea that there may be another way.

There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.

 

[PakPremi]

Best Solution would be Usman and Rizwan opening with still two senior and big players in Babar and Fakhar to bat and hopefully atleast one of them still there in last 3 overs, but they will not go with that I am sure.

 

[TheSultan]

There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.

You’re overthinking it for no reason. Powerplays are for blasting, nothing else.

Stick someone else in - and if you’re two supermen are as good as you all believe they are, then they can either stabilise or hit out or whatever else everyone claims they can do. At least there will be a reason to stabilise if they do that.

Currently they are stabilising from ball one for absolutely no reason. It’s like Azhar Ali’s perceptual crisis mode. Even when the team is 200-1. These geniuses create a crisis when there isn’t one.

 

[mominsaigol]

There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.

The reason why people want fakhar to open is because if he stays in he gets a massive score, his sr when he performs is much much higher.

Avg and sr interlink with each other, If fakhar has a low sr at opening its due to him failing, and averaging low, Theirs a reason he's striking much much higher when he comes into the PP at no 4.

Hence if he performs he'll get a very high score for Pakistan. Babar and rizwan avg very high but their sr is abysmally low not even reaching 130 which means their not t20 players and them staying in does nothing.

Babar from overs 1-6 is slow, from overs 7-15 he's even slower. Then finally from overs 16-20 he's striking at 212, which is good but problem is, how many times can he realistically bat and reach over no 16-20 as an opener?

Not even the best players in the world like kohli, Travis etc etc will reach that consistently against quality bowling hence you have a team.

T20 requires your openers to utilise the PP, your middle order to set up overs 7-15 and your lower order to finish the innings for you.

But how is Pakistan suppose to do that when

A) The openers do not utilise the PP.

B) The middle order is mostly walking wickets and fakhar is not the type of player to set up the end for you

C) Lower order iftimania never bothers finishing anything and consistently goes for a 17 ball 20?

 

[emranabbas]

There are two things you can use powerplay for. Staying in or/and flying start. Rizwan and Babar effectively use it to stay in, and increase their chances of a big score. Even people who dislike them can’t deny that. The issue is you have to do at least one or you are wasting it. Saim for example failed in both accounts.

But genuinely apart from Sharjeel, I haven’t seen any Pakistani opener which really maximises it in terms of scoring. Fakhar only accelerates afterwards, and doesn’t exactly stay in reliably during powerplay. The openers in the past before Rizwan and Babar didn’t either, guys like shehzad, Kamran, Butt, Hafeez when he opened etc didn’t set powerplay alight.

I think Usman should have got a shot as not only did he score at two or three times the average of the next best Pakistani batsmen in the PSL, he scored much fast than them and actually looked aggressive. If you dominate like that, I feel you deserve a shot like that opening, regardless of worries if you are not international material. Saim I think is overhyped as a power player, I don’t think he’s that, he’s just a good allround batsman. Usman on the other hand is truly an aggressive player, who has a higher chance of maximising powerplay in terms of strike rate.

I really hope you understand what a powerplay is, just incase you don't

a powerplay is a set of overs where fielding restrictions are applied to give an advantage to the batting team. Here's a breakdown of how it works


In the First 6 Overs A maximum of two fielders are allowed outside the 30-yard circle.
After 6 overs A maximum of five fielders can be outside the 30-yard circle

The powerplay is an opportunity to score runs quickly as there are fewer fielders on the boundary, making it easier to hit fours and sixes.

Now tell me what sort of strategy is staying in to increase the chance of scoring big?

You only going to score big in the powerplay not after the power play

 

[mominsaigol]

I really hope you understand what a powerplay is, just incase you don't

a powerplay is a set of overs where fielding restrictions are applied to give an advantage to the batting team. Here's a breakdown of how it works


In the First 6 Overs A maximum of two fielders are allowed outside the 30-yard circle.
After 6 overs A maximum of five fielders can be outside the 30-yard circle

The powerplay is an opportunity to score runs quickly as there are fewer fielders on the boundary, making it easier to hit fours and sixes.

Now tell me what sort of strategy is staying in to increase the chance of scoring big?

You only going to score big in the powerplay not after the power play

You can score big after the PP lol. Its just harder to do so. The issue is the delusion of settling in.

These boys rely on Babar and rizwan stats but ignore that statistically babar and rizwan are at their slowest from overs 7-15.

In otherwords overs 1-6 isn't the biggest issue for these 2 goobers. Their slow from overs 1-6 and overs 7-15 their hilarious because their one note. Lastly their 200sr stats from overs 16-20 are misleading, their inflated due to c string 100's Bobby has scored and for rizwan it's inflated cause he statistically departs from overs 16-17 where he often gets like 4 in 2 balls and them gets dismissed giving him 200 sr lol.

Basically the same logic as imad wasim being the greatest No 7 in odi history.

 

[shaz619]

If they took the middle order spot, it would be a big problem.

It would mean, Fakhar and Sharjeel would secure the no.1 & no.2 positions.

Mo. Harris would keep the momentum going at no.3 as the teams more organic 360 player, this is just too high risk right and T20 cricket is all about playing it safe.

Babar and Riswan wouldn't be under as much pressure to play lofted strokes at no.4 / no.5 and could freely pick gaps and target 1-2 boundaries per over with strike rotation. But as the seniors, they need to lead from the front, and scoring runs upfront is more difficult for them, they need to take on the responsibility.

In comes Imad at no.6, this is a concern because he may have more time to plan his innings if needed, and that's not necessary.

Chacha on the other hand would only have a few overs left, and that's an issue, because he doesn't need the clarity of mind to be the finisher he says he is, Chacha can be an accumulator or finisher, so it doesn't make sense to have him at no.7 does it, that's just too low.