Preparation, Mindset or Skill: Why Pakistan can't win Tests in Australia, while India can

[FearlessRoar]

Pakistan's dismal record in Test cricket in Australia is a stark contrast to India's impressive showing.

The question on everyone's mind is: what's behind this vast disparity in performance? Is it a lack of preparation, a mental block, or a dearth of skills that's holding Pakistan back? Or is it something more?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1860978612125503748

 

[IAJ]

Indian players are mentally stronger, better batsmen, fielders, and bowlers. No rocket science.

 

[castortroy]

Better bowling attack
Better batting line up
Better fielding

Superior to pak in every department. If pak and India played a test series now, it would be the most one sided whitewash you would ever see

 

[uppercut]

the VERY EVIL BCCI has bought out the angelic Aussie cricket board .... there I said it /thread

 

[Rajdeep]

Apart from obvious stuffs like better skills etc., I would also like to add that Indian players are more hungry for test cricket.

With all the criticism of IPL money, the main focus of star Indian players has always been test cricket.

Pakistani players, especially fast bowlers are mostly T20 specialists who are content on playing league cricket and earn money. They don't exert themselves much in test cricket fearing injury. Take M.Amir for example, he was a talented bowler, PCB went out of the way to fast track him but he decided to quit test cricket in his relative prime to keep his body fit playing league cricket all around. So this mindset of accepting test cricket is the big reason.

 

[Kroll]

Start furnishing them with large sums of PSL money, tide may start to swing.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Weak mentality

 

[Devadwal]

Start furnishing them with large sums of PSL money, tide may start to swing.

Everyone is not like fixer player's who are sellout for money .

 

[zarak]

Skill and fitness of our bowlers. Inability to bowl six on the trot and keep pressure. Inability to master movement both ways, bowl the wobble seam. Literally no bowler barring Abbas bowls the wobble seam.

 

[JaDed]

Bowlers aren’t good enough to bowl long spells.
Also Most Pakistani bowlers can swing the ball but seam and pace errrr they haven’t been that great in last 25 years

 

[shaz619]

First yeah, think about the USA, Ireland, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Then question the delusion among certain fans.

Once you address the above, maybe we can then start to think about Australia.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Bowlers aren’t good enough to bowl long spells.
Also Most Pakistani bowlers can swing the ball but seam and pace errrr they haven’t been that great in last 25 years

They lack consistency and discipline as well. Which has always come naturally to Indian bowlers, even when they lacked the skill and pace.

 

[JaDed]

They lack consistency and discipline as well. Which has always come naturally to Indian bowlers, even when they lacked the skill and pace.

Discipline yes, consistency in pace only improved after 2015.. before that it was variable.. good in 2004,2008 bad in 2011,2015.
Most Indian bowlers usually follow game plan , even batsmen do it’s how it always has been.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Skill and fitness of our bowlers. Inability to bowl six on the trot and keep pressure. Inability to master movement both ways, bowl the wobble seam. Literally no bowler barring Abbas bowls the wobble seam.

It's not just the bowlers. The batters lack skill as well. They struggle against the short ball and are mentally weak. How many times in Australia have we seen PAK batters just collapse in one session after being in a favorable position where they could take control of the test match.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

It's not just the bowlers. The batters lack skill as well. They struggle against the short ball and are mentally weak. How many times in Australia have we seen PAK batters just collapse in one session after being in a favorable position where they could take control of the test match.

Ya i get that bro but harrish rauf just exposed the australian team with his hostile bowling actually i observed one thing pak bowlers tend to do better in swing conditions thats why they got better record in england.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Discipline yes, consistency in pace only improved after 2015.. before that it was variable.. good in 2004,2008 bad in 2011,2015.
Most Indian bowlers usually follow game plan , even batsmen do it’s how it always has been.

Yeah fair enough. Indian bowling was quite rubbish between 2010 and 2016. I'm sure Indians still have PTSD because of bowlers like Varun Aaron and Vinay Kumar. Ishant was also a punch-line until he improved in 2016.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ya i get that bro but harrish rauf just exposed the australian team with his hostile bowling actually i observed one thing pak bowlers tend to do better in swing conditions thats why they got better record in england.

In Australia, you need a supreme level of fitness to be successful as a fast-bowler. If your fitness is not upto the mark, either your body will break down or your spells will start feeling more and more toothless with the passage of time. As a visiting team, it's very easy to lose the plot in Australia and get buried under the rubble of your own mistakes.

Haris Rauf succeeded in the recent ODI series because he had raw pace and only had to bowl 10 overs in the match. Unfortunately, none of our test pacers can even hit 140, which is another big issue and why so many generally tend to struggle in Australia. When PAK last visited though, the pitches had more swing on-offer than you generally tend to see in Australia which is why we saw Khurram Shahzad and Mir Hamza cause some trouble, particularly with the new-ball.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan will do better and start winning once they focus on what will work for them rather than focusing on what is working for India and how they can be better than India. Case in point recent test win vs England, putting industrial fans on pitches and diving on old dirty cots for fielding practice looked weird to rest of the world but it got the job done. That is the secret sauce.

 

[zarak]

It's not just the bowlers. The batters lack skill as well. They struggle against the short ball and are mentally weak. How many times in Australia have we seen PAK batters just collapse in one session after being in a favorable position where they could take control of the test match.

That's a given but our hyped up bowlers are equal culprits. Not one has test match skill

 

[sweep_shot]

How many teams can win in Australia? Only 2 (South Africa and India).

All other teams tend to lose badly.

India is primarily winning due to Bumrah. If Bumrah is not playing, India may also lose badly.

 

[Omer2002]

I am not sure about this thread but we are a minnow and that is a simple answer.

Thread should be why Can Indias C team beat Zimbabwe and our main team cant!!

 

[jnaveen1980]

You have to play well 5 full days or 4 or 3 days however long it lasts Pakistan was happy winning few sessions and lose it in critical sessions. Indian batsmen are better against bounce.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

India has for a long time been a far superior rest side.

They have invested heavily in their cricket and are reaping the rewards for investment and stability that has been in place for years.

In comparison we don't even know the names of our teams in next seasons FC. Will they be the same as this year? More teams? Less teams? When it will be played?

You will always struggle to produce results in such chaos.

 

[Hellion]

PAK players don't have the talent to compete at this level in Test cricket .

 

[Buffet]

One reason, debute of Bumrah. Started playing in 2018. He has lifted the bowling line up by a large margin. Same bowlers were not doing much before he debuted.

Before his debute India won 5 tests in Aus in entire history, after his debute it became 10 tests win in Aus in just 7-8 years.

I think Aus will take this series and make a strong come back. Bumrah can't keep bowling these spells in every match.

 

[jnaveen1980]

One reason, debute of Bumrah. Started playing in 2018. He has lifted the bowling line up by a large margin. Same bowlers were not doing much before he debuted.

Before his debute India won 5 tests in Aus in entire history, after his debute it became 10 tests win in Aus in just 7-8 years.

I think Aus will take this series and make a strong come back. Bumrah can't keep bowling these spells in every match.

Remember the famous Mitchell Johnson series where he bullied English batsmen with barrage of bouncers. India did the same to Australians in 2018. ALso India got revved up by sledging, stare contests against Australia. Australia's aggressive nature brought the best out of Indians most of the time.

This spell is probably one of my top 5 spell by an Indian on Australian soil. 19 year old in 2008 against Punter at WACA. INdia won the test. Srinath when hit Punter apologized to Punter. He used expletives against Srinath for that. Guys like Ishant gave Punter no quarters. They gave him back.

 

[Buffet]

Remember the famous Mitchell Johnson series where he bullied English batsmen with barrage of bouncers. India did the same to Australians in 2018. ALso India got revved up by sledging, stare contests against Australia. Australia's aggressive nature brought the best out of Indians most of the time.

This spell is probably one of my top 5 spell by an Indian on Australian soil. 19 year old in 2008 against Punter at WACA. INdia won the test.

Yah, there were always some bowlers bowling some nasty spells, but due to Bumrah pace unit simply went to another level.

Sustained performance by unit started happening only after Bumrah debuted. He will be the first role model for Indians to perfrom at elite level as pacer.

Yes, I am aware of India having good depth and all that but many posters are underestimating how much one great pacer can lift the bowling unit by bowling match changing spells. Commins has done the same, bit lower, but simialr job for Aus. Steyn did it for SA.

 

[Buffet]

Remember the famous Mitchell Johnson series where he bullied English batsmen with barrage of bouncers.

I enjoyed that series a lot. I watched pretty much all spells by Johnson. That was a peak pacer bullying batting line up. Eng batsmen were literally backing away and leaving wickets exposed. Entire batting line up was scared to play Johnson.

Aus has been top team in history and very tough place for touring sides. That's why doing well or failure in Aus always catches attention.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I enjoyed that series a lot. I watched pretty much all spells by Johnson. That was a peak pacer bullying batting line up. Eng batsmen were literally backing away and leaving wickets exposed. Entire batting line up was scared to play Johnson.

Aus has been top team in history and very tough place for touring sides. That's why doing well or failure in Aus always catches attention.

Very next series in 2014 India was met with similar bouncer tactic. This time Kohli and Rahane played some of the finest display against short ball tactics.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is always a needle between Australia and India which brings the best of these guys. When they play NZ, NZ displays ultra meek attitude. These guys just play within themselves.

 

[stani_pak]

Its a mix of all 3 but I think prepartation and skill is the main thing. Pak batters in test dont have the skill the to counter aussie bowling in australian conditions and also prepartation. PCB is the worse when it comes to that

 

[Buffet]

Its a mix of all 3 but I think prepartation and skill is the main thing. Pak batters in test dont have the skill the to counter aussie bowling in australian conditions and also prepartation. PCB is the worse when it comes to that

I beg to differ.

Bowlers have let Pakistan down more often than batsmen. Not just one off test but over all trend in the last 20 years. Pakistani bowling unit has averaged 50 runs per wicket in Aus.

 

[Buffet]

To put it on context,

Pakistan has averaged 50 runs per wicket in the last 20 years. It's very hard to win any match in any venue if you are giving 1000 runs per 20 wickets.

That's why when you see Bumrah taking 40 wickets in 18 a piece, you got to put him as a prime factor in India winning 5-6 tests in Aus in recent years.


Pakistan has been let down by bowlers. Yes, you don't need to be Bumrah but can't be giving 50 runs per wicket and expect to do well. But Pakistan is not alone, Last 20 years all visiting bowling units combined have averaged 44 runs per wicket in Aus.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I beg to differ.

Bowlers have let Pakistan down more often than batsmen. Not just one off test but over all trend in the last 20 years. Pakistani bowling unit has averaged 50 runs per wicket in Aus.

Correct. I put up a stat couple of years back on how Pak bowlers were unable to get the best of Australian conditions. Traditionally Pakistan bowlers rely on yorkers. too full balls. You can use them surprisingly not all the time. That length doesn't work here. You need to hit hard lengths with kookaburra seam. Achieving this length si where Pak bowlers struggled.

 

[stani_pak]

I beg to differ.

Bowlers have let Pakistan down more often than batsmen. Not just one off test but over all trend in the last 20 years. Pakistani bowling unit has averaged 50 runs per wicket in Aus.

Yes agree the bowling also not been good I was just talking more about the batting aspect

 

[Buffet]

Yes agree the bowling also not been good I was just talking more about the batting aspect

I think you have to see it on relative basis.

Pakistan in the last 20 years in Aus had scores of,

450
433
341
335
333
315
325
313
304
302

These are generally pretty good scores in Aus if bowlers step up.

 

[Buffet]

Correct. I put up a stat couple of years back on how Pak bowlers were unable to get the best of Australian conditions. Traditionally Pakistan bowlers rely on yorkers. too full balls. You can use them surprisingly not all the time. That length doesn't work here. You need to hit hard lengths with kookaburra seam. Achieving this length si where Pak bowlers struggled.

Aus is hard place to adjust for visting bowlers to be honest. Not just Pakistan, all bowlers taken together have averaged 44 runs per wicket in Aus in the last 20 years. On flip side, Aus bowlers have been able to do well on same pitches and bowl out opposition cheaply because they grew up playing on the same pitches.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Aus is hard place to adjust for visting bowlers to be honest. Not just Pakistan, all bowlers taken together have averaged 44 runs per wicket in Aus in the last 20 years. On flip side, Aus bowlers have been able to do well on same pitches and bowl out opposition cheaply because they grew up playing on the same pitches.

They get carried away by extra bounce. The funny thing is teams like Srilanka, Pakistan use kookaburra at home. India doesn't even use Kookaburra. They use SG ball. Yet they somehow make the adjustments. Atleast England uses Duke. South Africa uses kookaburra. PItches are similar. So they adapt more easily. NZ pitches are nothing like Australian pitcehs. So they struggle as well. Windies use DUke balls. But they somewhat make the adjustments.

 

[Savak]

You cannot compare India and Pakistan. It is literally like comparing the resources Bill Gates has at his disposal vs the resources a low income worker has at his disposal. India has had plenty of A tours to Australia and the bulk of their squad has plenty of experience in Australia. As a result Indian batsmen are pretty acclimatized to Australian conditions and their pace bowlers know what line, lengths to bowl on Australian pitches. Because of the Commercial, Cricketing value of the Indian team Cricket Australia has an extra incentive to keep calling India for a jampacked T20, ODI and 5 test series. Also Cricket Australia has fielded the same bowling attack i.e. Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Lyon against India in Australia for the last 3 series in the last 6 years which has kept failing, there is no surprise x factor anymore.

Apart from South Africa, every other team has failed in Australia.

For Pakistan to even get some better success

They need to do the following

- More A tours to Australia

- Arriving in Australia at least a month in advance and holding a full fledged training camp in Perth and Melbourne

- Drastic improvement in the fitness of the players. The reason why Pakistani players also fail in Australia because of their poor fitness levels. Australian pitches, grounds are very tough and the longer the tours go on, fragile unfit players get exposed. Pakistani pacers speeds decline drastically in their second spell onwards and you cannot afford that in Australia, you have to operate and come back at 100% in all spells

- Think out of the box. This myth that you need tall pacy bowlers to succeed in Australia is just a myth. Follow Bharat Arun's middle leg stump bowling plan with the leg side packed and aim to bowl maidens ruthlessly, restrict the run rate

- Develop and groom two pace bowling all rounders. You need to have a deep tail and atleast 5-6 bowling options so that you can use the pacers in short sharp bursts with 1-2 bowlers identified to perform the workhorse role and 1-2 pacers to be used in short sharp attacking roles.

 

[jnaveen1980]

By the way India has just one tall bowler in this set up by @Junaids standard. Harshit 6'2". That's it nobody is tall. Australia has 3 very tall fast bowlers. So that "tall theory" is not black and white? Can someone find that thread?

 

[Savak]

Apart from obvious stuffs like better skills etc., I would also like to add that Indian players are more hungry for test cricket.

With all the criticism of IPL money, the main focus of star Indian players has always been test cricket.

Pakistani players, especially fast bowlers are mostly T20 specialists who are content on playing league cricket and earn money. They don't exert themselves much in test cricket fearing injury. Take M.Amir for example, he was a talented bowler, PCB went out of the way to fast track him but he decided to quit test cricket in his relative prime to keep his body fit playing league cricket all around. So this mindset of accepting test cricket is the big reason.

There are rumours that Shaheen is considering retirement from test cricket as well. It may not be a bad decision, his record against England, Australia, New Zealand is terrible. Shaheen needs a green wicket to be effective, without it he is very pedestrian.