Proud to be British?

[uppercut]

Don’t think I am doing that [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION].

Thanks for the praise.

Your comment about my living through UK’s last good years is penetrating. I am ashamed of Britain now - the Brexit Ultras, Johnson and Patel have turned it into something uglier, nastier and smaller than it was - and so I look inwards to seek to find a reason to stay on the ship.

Hence my list.

Thats interesting ... if anything it should be the other way around no? I mean the entire Colonial ERA is a blot on humanity ... the repercussions of which will not go away anytime soon.

 

[James]

Who would your British heroes be?

I love the arts personally, and look up to people within this space who epitomise robust British values and often represent the best that the country has to offer.
They typically take a positive ambassadorial image, a mastery of language, a sense of self-deprecating humour and general decency, and strength of dramatic performance around the world.
I look to the arenas of Theatre and Film in particular. Just a few names to mention…

William Shakespeare
Christopher Marlowe
George Bernard Shaw
Sir Laurence Olivier
Sir Ian Holm
Sir Michael Caine
Sir Ian McKellen
Sir Patrick Stewart
Sir Alec Guinness
Sir Sean Connery
Sir Roger Moore
Sir Anthony Hopkins
Sir Kenneth Branagh
Sir Ben Kingsley
Sir Michael Gambon
Sir John Hurt
Rowan Atkinson
Alan Rickman
Tim Pigott-Smith
Julian Glover
Jeremy Irons
Robbie Coltrane
Gary Oldman
Charles Dance
Damian Lewis
Olivia Colman
Dame Julie Walters
Dame Helen Mirren
Dame Judi Dench
Dame Maggie Smith

 

[shaz619]

I love the arts personally, and look up to people within this space who epitomise robust British values and often represent the best that the country has to offer.
They typically take a positive ambassadorial image, a mastery of language, a sense of self-deprecating humour and general decency, and strength of dramatic performance around the world.
I look to the arenas of Theatre and Film in particular. Just a few names to mention…

William Shakespeare
Christopher Marlowe
George Bernard Shaw
Sir Laurence Olivier
Sir Ian Holm
Sir Michael Caine
Sir Ian McKellen
Sir Patrick Stewart
Sir Alec Guinness
Sir Sean Connery
Sir Roger Moore
Sir Anthony Hopkins
Sir Kenneth Branagh
Sir Ben Kingsley
Sir Michael Gambon
Sir John Hurt
Rowan Atkinson
Alan Rickman
Tim Pigott-Smith
Julian Glover
Jeremy Irons
Robbie Coltrane
Gary Oldman
Charles Dance
Damian Lewis
Olivia Colman
Dame Julie Walters
Dame Helen Mirren
Dame Judi Dench
Dame Maggie Smith

Interesting list, what % of those names are white ? if you take them away, the rest are my heroes

 

[KingKhanWC]

Interesting list, what % of those names are white ? if you take them away, the rest are my heroes

For me I have to think carefully who is a hero of mine , esp if they are actors/singers etc. So many have had allegations against them.

Its just my personal view but I dont understand why actors and singers are given such a high status in society. For most of history they were at the lower end.

The British people I look up to are mostly sports stars.

 

[Robert]

Its just my personal view but I dont understand why actors and singers are given such a high status in society. For most of history they were at the lower end.

The very best of the class of artists change the way we perceive the world.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The very best of the class of artists change the way we perceive the world.

Surely thats the writers or directors?

Acting is pretty much lying.

Singers I feel are more valuable though.

 

[Robert]

We can also add the freedom to build religious sites/buildings. Freedom of religion exists in the Uk, we should all be proud of this.

In Swiss no minerats. In France its the worst, not only is there no freedom of religion, religions esp Islam is attacked by discrimination by their laws.

Zurich Mosque:





Grand Mosque de Paris:

 

[KingKhanWC]

Swiss minerats were banned. However the good Christians, bishops demanded a u-turn. So those mosques which removed their minaret still have to adhere, others dont now.

The French mosque has been around for a long time.

A woman in France can go to the beach in a bikini but cant with her head covered. This is one of many examples from an extremist secular nation with a hate filled leader.

 

[Local.Dada]

A woman in France can go to the beach in a bikini but cant with her head covered. This is one of many examples from an extremist secular nation with a hate filled leader.

Wearing a bikini is not a compulsion.you can go to a beach wearing whatever you like

Covering a head is seen is a compulsion imposed on women.

Now I do agree with you that one should be free to wear their traditional/religious dress unless there is a mandated uniform. Banning the Hijab is a little extreme in my personal opinion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Wearing a bikini is not a compulsion.you can go to a beach wearing whatever you like

Covering a head is seen is a compulsion imposed on women.

Now I do agree with you that one should be free to wear their traditional/religious dress unless there is a mandated uniform. Banning the Hijab is a little extreme in my personal opinion.

There is no complusion to even be a Muslim according to Islam. Sure there may be a small % who are forced , but there is also a % of white western women who are forced to wear certain attire, speak to certain people etc. Men use control on women in all cultures.

I would say 95% of French Muslims are not proud to be French anylonger.

 

[Robert]

Surely thats the writers or directors?

Acting is pretty much lying.

Singers I feel are more valuable though.

I would say all four are artists.

Writing could also be considered making up lies.

When I did amateur theatre it was about building confidence, freeing up psychologically to be able to express emotions, and interpreting a piece.

 

[Lego20]

I love England/UK/Britain - a genuine Anglophile. Too bad I have had the misfortune of being a Pakistani, but at least I am proud of the fact that my country/region was once ruled by the British empire.

Too bad they had to leave.

Britishers must now be confused whether to like this guy for his love for Britain or doubt his loyalty for betrayal to his roots. Creates an impression of an ungrateful and opportunistic individual.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I would say all four are artists.

Writing could also be considered making up lies.

When I did amateur theatre it was about building confidence, freeing up psychologically to be able to express emotions, and interpreting a piece.

Writing can be fiction, tellling a story which has a good moral point etc.

Actors dont bring anything positive to society. Sure some are more skilled than others but billions can act in some way, only a few thousands can be astrophysicists. These clowns(not being rude, they are actors too) make so much money, influence so many people often in a negative way while great scientists are not even known. Most politicians are simply actors too, acting for someones script. Reason why we have had idiots such as Ronald Regan, Bush, Boris and others leading some of the most powerful nations when they couldnt run a booze up in a brewery.

 

[James]

Interesting list, what % of those names are white ? if you take them away, the rest are my heroes

Lol. To be fair this is a British thread and many of the best actors of colour are African American or Asian American.

We have produced some greats of our own like Idris Elba, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Dev Patel, and Riz Ahmed. We also have Daniel Kaluuya and John Boyega who are slightly newer on the scene but showing a lot of promise.

 

[James]

Surely thats the writers or directors?

Acting is pretty much lying.

Singers I feel are more valuable though.

Actors bring the writer’s script and the director’s vision to life, they are what ultimately affect the perception of the average viewer the most when watching a film or a theatre show.

It’s interesting what you say about actor’s status because it’s only really the emergence of cinema and the television screen in the 20th century which elevated “some” (as in a tiny minority of) actors to a famous status.

Actors throughout history, and even many now, have often been very downtrodden, exhausted and disrespected people with very little success to speak of. They can be fired at the drop of a hat if they make a couple of small mistakes. Many journeyman actors who are members of an acting union earn not much more than the minimum wage.

 

[Robert]

Writing can be fiction, tellling a story which has a good moral point etc.

Actors dont bring anything positive to society. Sure some are more skilled than others but billions can act in some way, only a few thousands can be astrophysicists. These clowns(not being rude, they are actors too) make so much money, influence so many people often in a negative way while great scientists are not even known. Most politicians are simply actors too, acting for someones script. Reason why we have had idiots such as Ronald Regan, Bush, Boris and others leading some of the most powerful nations when they couldnt run a booze up in a brewery.

Actors entertain. The astrophysicist goes home at the end of shift and puts film or box set on to unwind. Actors are storytellers too. Consider Game of Thrones - a writer wrote the story, a scriptwriter turned it into TV format but it took an actor as powerful and subtle as Emilia Clarke to embody and bring to life all the facets of Dannerys Targaryan - victim, wife, politician, commander, sulk, liberator, lover, tyrant. Watch the scene where she meets Jon Snow again and see how many sides of her are portrayed.

Only a few make a lot of money, about 95% are out of work at any time.

 

[Robert]

Thats interesting ... if anything it should be the other way around no? I mean the entire Colonial ERA is a blot on humanity ... the repercussions of which will not go away anytime soon.

I am talking about my lifetime. The Empire was 99% over, before I was born.

Some of what you describe is very close to home - just half an hour away by plane to the West. But the GFA had solved that ancient problem, until Brexit threatens to bring it back.

 

[Robert]

Swiss minerats were banned. However the good Christians, bishops demanded a u-turn. So those mosques which removed their minaret still have to adhere, others dont now.

The French mosque has been around for a long time.

A woman in France can go to the beach in a bikini but cant with her head covered. This is one of many examples from an extremist secular nation with a hate filled leader.

Ah, there was a minaret referendum in Sweden in 2008. 57% voted for a ban on new minarets, though the existing ones remain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Swiss_minaret_referendum

 

[KingKhanWC]

Actors bring the writer’s script and the director’s vision to life, they are what ultimately affect the perception of the average viewer the most when watching a film or a theatre show.

It’s interesting what you say about actor’s status because it’s only really the emergence of cinema and the television screen in the 20th century which elevated “some” (as in a tiny minority of) actors to a famous status.

Actors throughout history, and even many now, have often been very downtrodden, exhausted and disrespected people with very little success to speak of. They can be fired at the drop of a hat if they make a couple of small mistakes. Many journeyman actors who are members of an acting union earn not much more than the minimum wage.

Actors entertain. The astrophysicist goes home at the end of shift and puts film or box set on to unwind. Actors are storytellers too. Consider Game of Thrones - a writer wrote the story, a scriptwriter turned it into TV format but it took an actor as powerful and subtle as Emilia Clarke to embody and bring to life all the facets of Dannerys Targaryan - victim, wife, politician, commander, sulk, liberator, lover, tyrant. Watch the scene where she meets Jon Snow again and see how many sides of her are portrayed.

Only a few make a lot of money, about 95% are out of work at any time.

I agree many work hard, great entertainers etc.

There are two issues I have when it comes to being PROUD.

1. I cant be proud of someone who I have little information on their personal life. Today you'd be proud of an actor, tommmorow he could accused of sexual abuse as many have been recently. Because they are actors, its difficult to really know such people.

2. They are mere entertainers and so are puppets. I dont see this as important as scientists, doctors, engineers, sportsmen, those who provide charity etc.



2.

 

[shaz619]

For me I have to think carefully who is a hero of mine , esp if they are actors/singers etc. So many have had allegations against them.

Its just my personal view but I dont understand why actors and singers are given such a high status in society. For most of history they were at the lower end.

The British people I look up to are mostly sports stars.

I totally agree on the actors/singers although they provide us that everyday entertainment on the Netflix etc but deep down I know they’re all Tories so it gets a bit weird

Personally I respect certain writers and in sports I especially admire fighters, no sport truly compares to the rigours involved in boxing on a mental and physical level, plus often you get folk who come from similar backgrounds / do well and in doing so can at times be a bit more humble after success to and do good work in the community. Am not a big fan of MMA but it would have been nice if Khabib was British

 

[sweep_shot]

Borat
Mr. Bean
Cricket
Soccer

These are some great exports from Britain.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I totally agree on the actors/singers although they provide us that everyday entertainment on the Netflix etc but deep down I know they’re all Tories so it gets a bit weird

Personally I respect certain writers and in sports I especially admire fighters, no sport truly compares to the rigours involved in boxing on a mental and physical level, plus often you get folk who come from similar backgrounds / do well and in doing so can at times be a bit more humble after success to and do good work in the community. Am not a big fan of MMA but it would have been nice if Khabib was British

Boxing is the ultimate sport. No team mates to help you. Mental pain, physical pain and immense pressure not to mention risking ones life. The training and dedication is also like no other job.

To have the HW champ being British is a lot of pride for many. I think he is a great fighter but imo Lennox would beat him.

 

[anikrc1]

I agree many work hard, great entertainers etc.

There are two issues I have when it comes to being PROUD.

1. I cant be proud of someone who I have little information on their personal life. Today you'd be proud of an actor, tommmorow he could accused of sexual abuse as many have been recently. Because they are actors, its difficult to really know such people.

2. They are mere entertainers and so are puppets. I dont see this as important as scientists, doctors, engineers, sportsmen, those who provide charity etc.



2.

Sportsmen are also just entertainers ?

 

[Robert]

I agree many work hard, great entertainers etc.

There are two issues I have when it comes to being PROUD.

1. I cant be proud of someone who I have little information on their personal life. Today you'd be proud of an actor, tommmorow he could accused of sexual abuse as many have been recently. Because they are actors, its difficult to really know such people.

2. They are mere entertainers and so are puppets. I dont see this as important as scientists, doctors, engineers, sportsmen, those who provide charity etc.



2.

Well, you don’t know about scientists etc. either. Look at Doctor Shipman. Held as a pillar of his community, until it was revealed that he murdered scores of people.

 

[Manunited18]

Proud to be British.
Also look at the stellar performers from our shores:

Borat
Mr Bean
Royal family (drama series)
The Premiership (without doubt the best)

And much more.

 

[Robert]

Proud to be British.

The Premiership (without doubt the best).

It’s only the best because of the foreign players.

 

[James]

It’s only the best because of the foreign players.

The foreign players are in other leagues as well though. What really defines English football is the English/British terrace culture, the atmosphere, the Saturday afternoon tradition, the manky weather, the press box punditry with the thick coats and the big microphones, the steak pie and cup of tea, the final scores rolling in at 5PM, etc. And also the tactical styles on the pitch and the absolutely incredible pace of the football, which is much faster than anywhere else in the world; there are always loads of goals flying into the net & many matches are like watching a pinball machine. (in a good way.)

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The foreign players are in other leagues as well though. What really defines English football is the English/British terrace culture, the atmosphere, the Saturday afternoon tradition, the manky weather, the press box punditry with the thick coats and the big microphones, the steak pie and cup of tea, the final scores rolling in at 5PM, etc. And also the tactical styles on the pitch and the absolutely incredible pace of the football, which is much faster than anywhere else in the world; there are always loads of goals flying into the net & many matches are like watching a pinball machine. (in a good way.)

Agree with all of that, but the influx of foreign players definitely took it up another level. It's probably before your time, but for the period where English clubs were banned from Europe, the football here definitely went backwards. At that time there wasn't too many foreign players, and we ended up with every team playing long ball football with teams like Wimbledon and Watford leading the way. The loss of European football made us very insular and we missed out on a lot of innovation in techniques and coaching.

No surprise that with the influx of foreign coaches in the last couple of decades, we are starting to see much better young English players coming through now.

 

[Manunited18]

It’s only the best because of the foreign players.

Every other major leagues have foreigners as well, yet they don't come close to the premier league.

 

[Manunited18]

What also really helped is the quality of the Managers we've had over the years who've change the emphasis of our game to make us less predictable when compared to the past.

Sir Alex
Wenger
Jose
Pep
Klopp

 

[Technics 1210]

It wasn’t the foreign players that made the EPL what it is today, it was the rights to air football matches, essentially commoditising the game and selling the rights to the highest bidder.

For those who are old enough to remember, Division 1 games etc were on free to view channels, BBC mainly, then along came SKY (BSB back then) in early 90s. The entire model for football financing, not just for the media, but for the teams, changed forever.

More money starting to flow into football clubs through a share of rights revenue, then bonuses, then of course you add the passion of football in UK which lead to millions of subscribers - the rest is history.

Salaries went through the roof, investments through the roof, infrastructure through the roof, quality through the roof, competition through the roof, some clubs are now even listed on stock markets.

Ironically it is the pioneering financial model of the EPL that lead to attract foreign players - not the other way round.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It wasn’t the foreign players that made the EPL what it is today, it was the rights to air football matches, essentially commoditising the game and selling the rights to the highest bidder.

For those who are old enough to remember, Division 1 games etc were on free to view channels, BBC mainly, then along came SKY (BSB back then) in early 90s. The entire model for football financing, not just for the media, but for the teams, changed forever.

More money starting to flow into football clubs through a share of rights revenue, then bonuses, then of course you add the passion of football in UK which lead to millions of subscribers - the rest is history.

Salaries went through the roof, investments through the roof, infrastructure through the roof, quality through the roof, competition through the roof, some clubs are now even listed on stock markets.

Ironically it is the pioneering financial model of the EPL that lead to attract foreign players - not the other way round.

But that would beg the question, why do we need foreign players ( or managers for that matter) at all? Surely with the pioneering finances and money awash in England, we could just be fantastic by ourselves? All that money could be kept at home.

 

[Robert]

Every other major leagues have foreigners as well, yet they don't come close to the premier league.

In what regard?

 

[Technics 1210]

But that would beg the question, why do we need foreign players ( or managers for that matter) at all? Surely with the pioneering finances and money awash in England, we could just be fantastic by ourselves? All that money could be kept at home.

We need foreign players for 2 reason.

Liberalism - if EPL had an all English team you'd have Liberals crying racists.

Platform - EPL cemented the legend that is CR7, Cantona, Henry - these foreign players joined for the purpose of quality and experience.

Football is an English sport; it's in the blood. The other follow suit.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We need foreign players for 2 reason.

Liberalism - if EPL had an all English team you'd have Liberals crying racists.

Platform - EPL cemented the legend that is CR7, Cantona, Henry - these foreign players joined for the purpose of quality and experience.

Football is an English sport; it's in the blood. The other follow suit.

Yes but you said why foreign players need English football, you didn't answer why do we need them, if as you assert, pioneering finances and the UK led marketing of the game is what made the game great here. I asked you why can't English clubs be fantastic all by themselves? Why weren't Man City blazing a trail before a foreign led takeover, foreign manager induction, and now a mostly foreign squad?

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes but you said why foreign players need English football, you didn't answer why do we need them, if as you assert, pioneering finances and the UK led marketing of the game is what made the game great here. I asked you why can't English clubs be fantastic all by themselves? Why weren't Man City blazing a trail before a foreign led takeover, foreign manager induction, and now a mostly foreign squad?

We do not need foreign players.

If you think we do, then this is your opinion, not mine.

 

[James]

In what regard?

EFL:

On the field — strong tactics, modern formations, aggressive pressing, and extreme pace. Lots of goals per game. Rollicking entertainment. Very little long ball play. 4 out of every 5 ground passes are completed successfully.

A cultural tradition of fair play; a general contempt being openly displayed towards dirty players, diving, and cheating; and also a common sense refereeing style has led to a good overall disciplinary record throughout the division and a very small number of red card incidents.

Relatively low rates of corruption, criminality and institutionalised behaviour at an organisational and structural level, at least compared with other football associations.

Huge weekly attendances from the fans and incredible atmospheres at most/all grounds.

A massive global brand which attracts the very best managers and players consistently.

The romantic element of England being the home of football.

The fantastic Sky Sports coverage.

It’s everything.

And it’s particularly excellent at the moment, even by its own standards. 2 out of the 3 last European Cup finals have been all-English affairs and that did not happen by accident.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We do not need foreign players.

If you think we do, then this is your opinion, not mine.

It's not my opinion, it's reality staring you in the face. If we thought we'd be fantastic without them or even slightly better, we wouldn't be bringing them here at great expense. There's nothing wrong with it either, they help us to make British football the best league in the world. Are you going to argue that's just my opinion as well?

 

[Manunited18]

Foreign imports have no doubt added to the quality of the game in this country, which in effect has made sure that for the home grown player to succeed they will have to lift their level.

 

[Manunited18]

In what regard?

Strength in depth in the premiership is vastly superior to anything in other major leagues.

All the elite managers are applying their trade in the premiership.

Revenue generated through tv deals is second to none.

 

[Technics 1210]

It's not my opinion, it's reality staring you in the face. If we thought we'd be fantastic without them or even slightly better, we wouldn't be bringing them here at great expense. There's nothing wrong with it either, they help us to make British football the best league in the world. Are you going to argue that's just my opinion as well?

I think you are arguing for the sake of it. If the reality is staring in our faces then why ask?

 

[Robert]

Strength in depth in the premiership is vastly superior to anything in other major leagues.

All the elite managers are applying their trade in the premiership.

Revenue generated through tv deals is second to none.

Ok.

 

[WC-Passion]

I'm happy to have been brought up here and I honestly think it's unthinkable for me to ever leave and never return. I don't look back on english politics or history with great happiness, but it has to be said that it's one of the best western countries to live in due to generally how safe and accepting people are.

Talking about the UK always makes me feel like I have main character syndrome as it's hard to look at it without thinking that it's always going to be THE location, however I'm sure that's not unusual for most people with their home countries.

Overall, it's very fair to criticise the UK (pretty heavily at that) but when you give it credit for what it is like for the average person, there aren't many places more appealing in the world (if any).

 

[Mamoon]

When they ruled , they saw brown people present a lower class people, less human, some types of slaves to help their empire become richer. Why would you want to be seen as such today?

First I read a 'Pakistani' who doesnt live in the UK proud because of colonialism when he wasnt born lol.

Well the brown people at the time were certainly inferior, and that is why they were dominated and ruled by the once-glorious British empire.

The Mughals were lazy and mediocre. They could have become an imperial power and a proper rival to the European colonists but they were incapable. They had the wealth and the resources, but also the wrong priorities.

The subcontinent is the most incompetent region in the world. Whatever work ethic they have was instilled into them by the British, and they only excelled because they were introduced to the English language.

Unlike the Arabs who hit a jackpot when the West discovered and extracted oil for them, South Asians were not sitting on any great wealth.

We are inferior people. Whatever we have is because of the British. Sure they exploited us, but we deserved to be exploited. We are still functioning on the systems that were introduced by the British, which sums up everything.

 

[Mamoon]

Interesting.

See my list of my British heroes - mainly philosophers, writers, musicians and scientists with a few progressive politicians.

Who would your British heroes be?

Sir Winston Churchill and Admiral Nelson for protecting Britain from disintegration.

Sir Isaac Newton and Darwin for changing the world of science.

Sir Alexander Fleming for changing the world of medicine.

Sir William Shakespeare and Dickens for my love of literature.

 

[Robert]

Well the brown people at the time were certainly inferior, and that is why they were dominated and ruled by the once-glorious British empire.

The Mughals were lazy and mediocre. They could have become an imperial power and a proper rival to the European colonists but they were incapable. They had the wealth and the resources, but also the wrong priorities.

The subcontinent is the most incompetent region in the world. Whatever work ethic they have was instilled into them by the British, and they only excelled because they were introduced to the English language.

Unlike the Arabs who hit a jackpot when the West discovered and extracted oil for them, South Asians were not sitting on any great wealth.

We are inferior people. Whatever we have is because of the British. Sure they exploited us, but we deserved to be exploited. We are still functioning on the systems that were introduced by the British, which sums up everything.

Wasn’t the Subcontinent the most prosperous part of the world before the East India Company turned up and looted it?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wasn’t the Subcontinent the most prosperous part of the world before the East India Company turned up and looted it?

He's trolling. Here's what he wrote in the Proud to be Indian thread:

Would have been incredibly proud if I were Indian. The greatest country in South Asia by a country mile (pun intended) and home to one of the most famous and richest cultures in the world.

Try and square that with the opinions he's professing in this thread.

 

[Mamoon]

Wasn’t the Subcontinent the most prosperous part of the world before the East India Company turned up and looted it?

Prosperous for its time, but the measure of prosperity is not a constant. The subcontinent would have lagged behind during the Renaissance in Western Europe, so colonization by European powers was necessary for it to keep up the pace with the modern world.

 

[Mamoon]

He's trolling. Here's what he wrote in the Proud to be Indian thread:

Would have been incredibly proud if I were Indian. The greatest country in South Asia by a country mile (pun intended) and home to one of the most famous and richest cultures in the world.

Try and square that with the opinions he's professing in this thread.

Where is the confusion? India would have lagged behind the modern world without getting colonized. It has capitalized on the English language better than the other subcontinent countries, and so it has prospered.

However, in spite of benefiting from colonization, it has managed to preserve its unique and remarkably vibrant culture, so much so that Pakistani culture doesn’t seem to have any value in the eyes of the West and is always confused for Indian culture.

 

[Robert]

Prosperous for its time, but the measure of prosperity is not a constant. The subcontinent would have lagged behind during the Renaissance in Western Europe, so colonization by European powers was necessary for it to keep up the pace with the modern world.

It wasn't lagging behind the Renaissance - and remember that Europe was almost constantly tearing itself apart with warfare up until 1945. Europe only started to become prosperous for ordinary folk by the late nineteen-hundreds, and then not properly until the liberal democratic order after WW2.

 

[topspin]

We are inferior people. Whatever we have is because of the British. Sure they exploited us, but we deserved to be exploited. We are still functioning on the systems that were introduced by the British, which sums up everything.

Look we get it you love the British but even this is too much and insensitive for your average British Empire cheerleader. So many South Asians lost their lives as a result of what the Brits did there.

 

[Robert]

He's trolling. Here's what he wrote in the Proud to be Indian thread:

Would have been incredibly proud if I were Indian. The greatest country in South Asia by a country mile (pun intended) and home to one of the most famous and richest cultures in the world.

Try and square that with the opinions he's professing in this thread.

I cannot.

What's your game [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]?

 

[topspin]

He's trolling. Here's what he wrote in the Proud to be Indian thread:

Would have been incredibly proud if I were Indian. The greatest country in South Asia by a country mile (pun intended) and home to one of the most famous and richest cultures in the world.

Try and square that with the opinions he's professing in this thread.

Well spotted. Looks like Mamoon has contradicted himself again.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Where is the confusion? India would have lagged behind the modern world without getting colonized. It has capitalized on the English language better than the other subcontinent countries, and so it has prospered.

However, in spite of benefiting from colonization, it has managed to preserve its unique and remarkably vibrant culture, so much so that Pakistani culture doesn’t seem to have any value in the eyes of the West and is always confused for Indian culture.

Look, I don't have a problem with your love for Britain, it's well deserved, I don't have any problem with your admiration for India either, but you need to make your mind up. You can't call the subcontinent people incompetent, lazy and inferior in this thread, then start eulogising them in the Proud to be Indian thread. Everyone can see your game, which might seem highly amusing to you, but these threads become pointless if the only purpose is to troll.

 

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Charles Darwin's Signed Document To Go For Auction, Could Fetch ₹ 9 Crore

Sotheby's in New York will soon auction a document that Charles Darwin signed and which supports his theory of evolution. The letter is anticipated to sell for over 1 million pound (Rs 9,85,21,780), a record price for a Darwin manuscript, as per the BBC.

There isn't much original Darwinian writing left because he didn't regularly archive his work. "If it does, and it's signed, it's almost always just with the abbreviated "C Darwin" or "Ch Darwin. It's very rare to have his name, "Charles Darwin", written out in full and in his own hand," the website states.

However, Professor John van Wyhe, the curator of the academic database known as Darwin Online, claims that it is particularly special because of what the great man chose to include on the page in addition to his signature.

"He includes a passage that appears in the third edition of On the Origin of Species. It's a really favourite passage, because he's trying to make the point that people might find his theory unbelievable and outlandish, but they said the same about Newton and gravity, and nobody doubted the existence of gravity anymore. The same, he says, would be true eventually with evolution and natural selection," the professor told BBC.

The document was produced for The Autographic Mirror magazine. Hermann Kindt, its publisher, also printed facsimiles of famous people's autographs or handwriting alongside their biographies. Darwin jumped at the chance when he was asked if he would contribute. It was a chance for him to refute his critics, the outlet states.

According to the BBC, the letter reads, "I have now recapitulated the chief facts and considerations, which have thoroughly convinced me that species have been modified, during a long course of descent, by the preservation or the natural selection of many successive slight favourable variations. I cannot believe that a false theory would explain, as it seems to me that the theory of natural selection does explain, the several large classes of facts above specified. It is no valid objection that science as yet throws no light on the far higher problem of the essence or origin of life. Who can explain what is the essence of attraction of gravity? No one now objects to following out the results consequent on this unknown element of attraction; notwithstanding that Leibnitz formerly accused Newton of introducing "occult qualities & miracles into philosophy. - Charles Darwin."

NDTV